Hi everyone, welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks. We're
in the middle of somewhere between Basque Country
and La Rioja. Have you been to La Rioja before?
I've never been to La Rioja. I'm really excited.
First time as well. And we're going to talk about
the deep and diverse world of noodles. Noodles.
Noodles. Noodles. Do you have a favorite type
of noodle? Don't ask. You know the answer to
that, Eric. Where do noodles come from? China,
for sure. Yeah? Yeah, it has to be. This is a
bunch of Italians crying right now. No, they
know this. They actually, they... They're in
denial. They claim it was Americo Vespucci? No,
Marco Polo. Marco Polo, the one that went to
Asia and brought noodles to Italy. There is this
creation around pasta that it has to do with
China. But, yeah, I mean, like, it's such a complex
elaboration that you don't see in other cultures
except the ones that were influenced by China.
But, you know, taking a dough and stretching
it up until you have, like, this fine string
and multiplying it a hundred times and some cases
drying it, some cases throwing it directly to
boiling water. I mean, it's a very non -obvious
way to treat wheat. Do you think so? I think
it's actually like... I don't know if I would
agree. I think it's a very common... I feel like
you can find a kind of noodle in every culture.
And obviously the question is when did it come
there? When did they start doing it and stuff?
But in Mesoamerica, for example? Yeah, that's
true. Or Africa, you know? yeah and the ones
in europe were introduced by asia yeah yeah from
the silk road like all the way down yeah for
sure for sure yeah but that set apart yes there
are different styles of noodles and for example
italians and let's say germans and catalans they
have their own thing which is different from
everything else it's interesting like if you
look at the history of like a pasta I know like
John Regelfeld does a very interesting talk on
pasta. John Regelfeld from the BCC. And I remember
he was talking about like how pasta used to be
eaten in the beginning where they used to make
like big sheets of dough and like dry it out
and then cut it. And this is like very, very
different approach and how that then developed
over the years until all these little like different
pasta shapes arrived. that we have today because
i mean if you if we just look at italy the shapes
of pasta are insane you know and then if you
go to china i mean it's completely different
thing china is like a world of its own and like
the the type of noodles from like north which
is like desert -y kind of like with like lots
of muslim influence to like the south east you
know like sichuan uh it doesn't really have one
thing doesn't really have to do with the other
you can't generalize china as that Not at all,
not at all. Same with Italy and, yeah, and even
other regions of Europe. You will find, like,
specific types of pasta, particular to every
region. Or noodles. Let's say Spätzle, for example.
It's pretty much its own thing. That's true.
And it's this, I don't know, amorphous kind of
noodles, you know, like... It's its very own
technique. That's very true. Yeah. Should we
talk about what the technique is? Yeah, well,
the traditional way... You have to mix it. Usually
it was mixed by hand. Yes. And while mixing it,
you have to say, du sau, du sau, du sau. No,
that was just your experience. Do you want to
tell the story that you witnessed? So the chef
that we used to work for, Eric and I, he learned
to cook in a very traditional German restaurant
when he was young. And he had to make Spätzle
dough. by hand. So as Eric just mentioned, Spätzle
dough traditionally gets beaten with a flat hand
and stretched as you beat it to really, really
stretch the gluten because it's like fairly liquid
dough. You can't knead it because it's too sticky.
And we at one point made Spätzle in this restaurant.
We were all kind of like beating the dough, so
to say. And then the chef came, he was like...
He started whispering at my ear. you have to
say which means how would you translate that
you you pig you pig but female pig and then he
started doing it and he started just like yeah
the result is really better if you say that wow
you think so oh yeah for sure I think we should
try this out with more than just Spätzle. There
are like these mantras that you have to do. I
can imagine like a sushi master making nigiris
while whispering to himself. Yeah, and I don't
know, talking to the storm gods, move the waters
of the sea or I don't know, something like that.
But yeah, so Spätzle, you beat the dough. You
let it rest and you put it on a wooden board,
wet wooden board. scrape it flat because this
dough is basically like a paste. You have a pot
of boiling water, salt it, lightly salt it, and
then you have a scraper, you wet it, you flatten
the dough out and then from the edge of the board
you shave these like thin noodles into the boiling
water. You cannot scrape them into the water
with a knife or a spatula. Yes. So that you have
like this. Little pizzas. That's the most traditional
and old -school way today. Of course, you have
like... I had that actually at home. My dad would
do that at home. Like these presses where you
put the dough inside and then it goes out. I've
met the granddaughter of the man who invented
the press, actually. She's a friend of mine.
What do you like Schmetzels with? What's your
favorite thing to eat with Schmetzels? Lots of
things. I mean... episode earlier we were talking
about game i was thinking exactly this i think
it's like a really nice side dish for a game
and for like a goulash and stews and goulash
so good oh yeah yeah but also i mean you can't
forget about cheese spetzle of course he's a
spetzle austrian up delicacy with a certain with
caramelized onions a certain kind of cheese and
then gratinated absolute classic super delicious
but also with like a chanterelle cream sauce
for example Like in mushrooms. Super tasty. End
game. Absolutely. End game. Everything together.
Do you have any favorite Chinese noodles? Yeah,
I mean, definitely. I'll probably butcher the
pronunciation, but I love the biang biang noodles.
Ah, fuck. I was going to say exactly that. Yeah,
I swear. I found this place in Barcelona where
they do biang biang noodles. And I go there every
single time I go to Barcelona because it's...
It costs like, I don't know, like five bucks
for a big bowl of this. I would describe it like
a XXXL tagliatelle, right? It's like this thick
tagliatelle, like this long, like wide, plain
kind of noodle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's
like stretched by hand. You make a certain dough,
you kind of stretch it and you flip it and bang
it against the... against the table as you stretch
it and then often you rip the end and rip the
whole noodle along the center to make a tw the
noodle twice as long and then you often you get
a bmw noodle it's just one long noodle in the
bowl and use some laugamai on top of that and
that's it i went to there's a new noodle place
opening well it just opened in berlin it's called
mr noodle chang And it's supposedly a chain from
China and they do hand -pulled noodles. It's
super nice because you can choose your noodle
thickness. I know you would like that. But you
can have like really flat noodles, like really
thinly stretched noodles with like just really
simple traditional like beef broth, braised beef
brisket, some sour fermented mustard greens and
chili oil. Ultra delicious. So comforting. I
remember being... with john reggaefalk in a street
market in malaysia and having a chinese hand
pulled noodles just in front of me i have videos
i i can't post them on this episode it was so
cool the guy would it would take him like less
than a minute like punk punk punk pulled to the
water and then i remember john said something
really interesting like that we in europe or
in the west that we really underestimate the
power of or undervaluate the power of a simple
nice stock oh yeah you know like just having
like a good chicken broth and noodles and that's
it that's pretty much it that's like an amazing
meal that you have and i think that's way more
appreciated in asia oh yeah especially in china
oh yeah for sure i mean we do have it in germany
as well and we like in europe but not close to
what it is and actually there's an interesting
dish from austria called fledler which is basically
a pancake you make pancakes you roll it up and
you cut it into thin noodle strips and traditionally
that is eaten in a clear beef or also maybe game
consommé as noodles yeah it's basically yeah
and it's super delicious it's really really because
the the pancake the the porous texture it soaks
up a little bit the broth and the texture of
the noodle changes but like what you were saying
about this broth i went the other day to a very
famous far place in berlin berlin huge amount
of vietnamese people living in berlin since like
a long long time ago and so there's really really
good far places one of the most famous ones being
monsieur wong and I had one of the most exceptional
fosa the other day. It was like, and the power
of the broth, crystal clear broth with like eyes
of fat swimming on top and then loads of fucking
herbs and spring onions on top and then the traditional
rice noodles. But the broth, I would wager there's
few things that have an impact on you eating
as a well -made broth, whether that's a dashi
in Japan or like a clear, you know, consomme.
if it's well made and balanced you drink it you
feel in your entire body you know like the history
of four is super interesting because as you see
it's a it's a beef broth and that's not as common
in asia so you will find more like chicken or
pork right yeah and the reason is because it
was not meant to be for asians you know you had
like this street food vendors in the south of
vietnam that would sell this to the french it
had just more demand and it was a best seller
if it was a beef broth instead of a pork or a
chicken oh really yeah so they started to develop
and then this um spices added to it you know
like clove and i had the best fall in my life
it was in malaysia as well a vietnamese restaurant
there incredible it's one that is listed in the
michelin guide we went there just for the fall
and yeah you could feel the the spices go through
this beef broth And with this rice noodles and
also, like you said, herbs, citrus. I mean, we
have to go to Vietnam. Yeah. No, no. I have a
plan for beginning of next year, actually, that
I want to go to Vietnam because I'm dying to
go. Pho is like such an interesting broth because...
Without me, so you didn't tell me anything. Oh,
we can talk about it. Okay. In private. Pho is
a really interesting broth because you like,
you basically like char the ginger and you char
the onions. and it also has like you say star
anise and cinnamon really importantly cinnamon
for me is like something i'd rarely put into
like i would never think of putting cinnamon
into a broth like me personally like unless it's
like very gainy or like something but it works
so well it's so delicious and clove same thing
i would say the same thing about clove it's very
traditional this thing that you put a clove into
an onion or in some cases like 20 cloves into
an onion like something very french but i think
when it's subtle And I think it's a key part
of a good pho broth. It's a shared piece. Talking
about noodles, and if we then go from China and
Vietnam to Japan, obviously everybody always
talks about ramen. But you know what I think
people don't talk about enough? It's soba and
udon. Everybody always talks about ramen this,
ramen that. But the soba culture, and especially
the udon culture, that is like something that
almost... only the locals keep for themselves
it doesn't really go out that much it hasn't
become like a international sensation like ramen
has i had the best noodles in my life in kyoto
yeah and uh it was kind of it was a soba place
and it was the flagship place of like kind of
like a restaurant group it was a huge mess because
all of the you know the spending machines in
the noodle shops It was all in Japanese. And
there was a queue. So we didn't have time to
use it. We felt completely pressured. There was
like no... With the Google Translate, like, I
don't know, just pick something. Just press the
button. Just pay whatever. Exactly. And so I
didn't have actually what I would have if I wouldn't
push a random button. I had soba to dip it. The
dipping sauce, the cold one? Yeah, exactly. It
was cold to dip it. and in this place the particular
thing about it is that they would emulsify the
broth so they every once in a while you would
see someone with a tournament and it was like
this almost pill pill broth for the soba wow
incredible that's crazy one of the best bites
i had in japan for sure i'll send you the address
i think it's so underrated it's like the cold
soba the people don't know soba are buckwheat
noodles and there's different types of soba there's
soba that are made from a mix of buckwheat flour
and wheat flour but the soba masters the real
soba masters they make the sobas out of 100 buckwheat
flour which is super difficult because buckwheat
has almost no gluten right so making a cohesive
noodle out of it is extremely difficult but obviously
if you have it 100 buckwheat the flavor is much
more intense i think there's like cold dipping
sauce usually get condiments next to it like
nori grated daikon sesame And wasabi, I think,
also. And then you have the tensuyu, the dipping
sauce. And you mix that in, and you take a portion
of your noodle, you put it in, and you slurp
it. Extremely delicious. But then, something
that blew my mind when I was in Japan, is that
then you have this, like, dipping sauce with
still the condiments. You finish your noodles.
They bring you a little can of the cooking water
from the noodles. Okay, never saw that. That
is insane. because they give you this like slightly
salty starchy water which is almost a broth and
you pour that into your sauce and then you drink
it like it was a broth it's like buckwheat tea
wow okay and that like blew my mind and i thought
that was so cool and also this absolute appreciation
for kind of using everything yeah also resourcefulness
this is something that probably originated in
poverty you know like 100 but then becomes an
appreciation yeah yeah Udon also. Have you had
cool udon experiences? Oh yeah, for sure. For
me, udon was limited to this kind of... but then
you also have like squared udons, you know? Yeah,
it's different styles, original styles. Completely
different styles of different udons, yeah. I
think that's Sanuki udon, if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah, but some are round, some are square, some
are a little bit thicker, some are a little bit
thinner. Yeah. I would say udon is like the ultimate
sort of like people food in Japan. honestly like
the more you get into like real sort of japanese
eating culture udon is really yeah like an everyday
food it's super affordable it's like there's
lots of different toppings and it's basically
just a wheat noodle i've actually when i was
in dubai with michael started making udon fresh
in the restaurant so i was making udon like every
like two or three days and we stopped buying
udon all together udon is kind of funny because
it is a firm dough and it's kneaded extensively
so that you get this texture. Traditionally,
you make the dough and then you put it, you wrap
it, you put it on the floor and you step on it
so that you knead it with your feet. So if you
see udon factories, even like in cities where
you have like a small udon restaurant that somebody
took over and they still make the noodles in
-house, they will take off their shoes, they'll
have like a little area and they'll put the dough
on the floor and knead it by stepping on it in
a particular way. Then afterwards, you know,
you roll it, you rest it, you roll it out, you
cut it fairly thick, and you boil it for a really
long time. When I was doing it, it was about
12 minutes. Boil it, and then you wash it, you
rinse it in cold water. And that gives you this,
like, bouncy... Elastic, I would say. Yeah. There's
this word, and I think it comes from Korean food,
it's called kyukyu. This, like, texture, this,
like, bouncy, starchy texture. which is very
appreciated by asians this chewiness right yeah
this bouncy chewiness that you also have in rice
cakes and stuff like that yeah super nice i was
just going to talk about mention this korean
rice cake that feel like rice gnocchi also super
what's the name ebook or something like that
oki is something like that yeah yeah something
like that Yeah, I had one of those recently with
tomato sauce and cheese. Oh, yeah? Yeah, and
for me it was crazy. I haven't got so deep into
Korean food, but finding tomato sauce and cheese
with Asian noodles was very counterintuitive
for me. But apparently this is something in Korea.
Yeah, I also feel like I really want to educate
myself more on Korean food because that's another
whole world. But for example, the whole Ramyeon
culture. which is totally different to ramen
culture you know so like the similarities obviously
uh i mean even the name everything goes back
to china yeah yeah absolutely absolutely we haven't
talked about italy we have not talked about italy
enough but people talk enough about italy you
know like you have to showcase other places of
the world okay have you tried this um these are
like sweet potato starch noodles that are also
korean yes i love those that are like translucent
you know i love those they have them in japan
as well they're for example a very quintessential
part of sukiyaki i don't know if you've had sukiyaki
rings a bell but i'm not sure it's almost like
shabu shabu all right so like you have like different
things cooked down in like a sauce and you have
these like glass noodley starch noodley type
noodles i think that isn't it starch called konjac
I feel like that might be the name for it. Okay.
That you put in and braise. We used to have it
for star food in Rio again a lot when I was working
in Tokyo. Super, super nice. Again, like a super
particular texture. This like braised starchy
thing. I think you also have it in like other
things like wooden and stuff like that. You know
wooden? No. It's like this, like one pot stew
of like chunky stuff. It's like also a Japanese
comfort food where you have like whole eggs and
like big chunks of tofu, big chunks of starch.
Just like, stewing in like a seasoned broth that
you then kind of like take out as like ultimate
comfort food, basically. Thai noodles don't get
talked about a lot. Have you ever had a cow soy?
No, and my knowledge is not so deep about Thai
food. You've been to Thailand, right? I've not
been to Thailand, but I've spent a lot of time
cooking Thai food with Thai cooking experts.
And I actually learned a lot. Cow soy is super
amazing. Basically, it's like it's almost like
a Thai spaetzle. in a way that you make this
like slurry this like dough you put it in the
press and you press it into hot water and you
make these like pressed noodles you you take
them and you can deep fry them and they make
this like big nest of like crispy noodles so
often you have this like noodles i think it's
a breakfast staple in thailand you have these
noodles and like a spicy coconut curry with a
big chunk of like crispy noodles on top it's
super delicious i mean you eat that for breakfast
you're you're set you're ready to go you're you're
with your foot on the gas pedal well something
i can say about like italian pasta in general
that can be learned from is you have this whole
diversity of shapes and these shapes have like
particular functionalities yeah absolutely and
also for example like some are just lines that
are just designed to catch more sauce or these
shapes where the sauce goes inside so that it
explodes in your mouth when you bite. And it's
part of it. Also, the way of cooking it, there
is this mistake of washing the noodles that some
uncooks do, adding hot water or even adding oil
to the water. Who does that, though? It's pretty
common. Really? Yeah, it's pretty common. And
at the end, you're not allowing the pasta to...
become sticky and get the sauce stick to it,
which is what you want, right? I think we've
talked about it in home hacks that finishing
your pasta in the sauce or even adding some pasta
water to your sauce happens so often that I have
to do that, especially when I'm in a restaurant,
I cook pasta all the time. It's like 90 % of
the time that I finish pasta in the sauce or
at least add some pasta water to the sauce. I
think what a lot of people also forget is like...
Pasta isn't pasta, like if you talk about Italy,
if it's like, because you don't use the same
recipe of a dough for, say, a tagliatelle or
papardelle, right, that you use, for example,
for a filled pasta. It's a completely different
dough recipe, you know, whether you only use
egg yolks or you use whole egg. Or no egg at
all. Or no egg at all, exactly, if it's just
a semolina, you know, flour and water dough.
uh which is also very common they have completely
different functionalities like you say completely
different attribute so i think in general you
know with china it's very obvious we can't generalize
it it's so vast it's like a whole universe in
itself culinary also because it's like the birthplace
of so many things you know the influence that
china has had on so many things that have come
out into the world is insane you know if you
think about it is uh a culture that has existed
for like 4 000 years yeah it's crazy as the same
it's not like i don't know romans became italians
and you know no chinese have been chinese for
the last four thousand years yeah yeah and like
it's the same with italy you can't generalize
italy and i love that i love looking at these
sorts of things and realizing that food is like
an ever like changing flow we like to think of
like the time and place that we're in now and
like Relatively recent traditions and saying
all this is from here and this is like that and
it's always been like this I know it's a constant
exchange of cultures. You know, it's not people
get so pressed about cultural appropriation when
it comes to food but actually when you look at
it and you take a few steps back everything is
a constant osmosis of stuff yeah of an exchange
of cultures you know the arabs coming to spain
you know and like people say this is spanish
you can't do this you can't do this any different
way you know potatoes come from america exactly
and it's like rice from asia you know like especially
when we talk about produce yeah and it's like
chill out you know food and eating is the thing
that we all have in common you know and we should
celebrate the like the constant flow and evolvement
and everything that is a tradition today was
an innovation at some point somebody somebody
did something crazy that was not okay to do you
know and if it was good it survived during some
generations until today yeah yeah and it started
at one point but it doesn't mean that that's
the final stage it keeps evolving and evolving
and evolving it'll keep doing that things that
we find traditional today will keep evolving
also And new impressions will come. New cultures
will merge and mix. A big amount of immigrants.
What about Nikkei cooking? Now a thing of itself.
Just born out of immigrants coming to a country
and making something out of it. What about New
Nordic? Just like a group of visionaries decided
to create a new cuisine out of scratch. And that's
insane, you know? And it's something that today
is distinctive. Now it's a thing. You can say
these are the features of New Nordic and you
can identify it and, yeah, distinguish it from
other regions. Yeah, I mean, at the end of the
day, food and culture are inseparable. And just
like culture doesn't stay the same, it keeps
evolving, food will do the same. That's it for
this week's episode of Putt Lock Food Talks.
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