WEBVTT 00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:07.719 Hi everyone, welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks. I'm 00:00:07.719 --> 00:00:10.000 here with my man Phil. We're going to La Rioja. 00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:14.080 For sure, the most important wine region in Spain. 00:00:14.419 --> 00:00:17.399 100%. While we go there, we're going to talk 00:00:17.399 --> 00:00:21.260 about game. Yeah, not Squid Game. Not video games. 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:30.239 Not the games. Not X Games. No, like deer, hare. 00:00:30.839 --> 00:00:36.820 Wild food. More. Cajuns, squab, etc. Pheasants. 00:00:37.079 --> 00:00:43.320 Yeah. Grouse, snipe, mallard. So, what's the 00:00:43.320 --> 00:00:46.799 deal with game? I mean, I absolutely love game. 00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:52.299 I mean, I grew up in a family, I think like 50 00:00:52.299 --> 00:00:54.439 % of the people in my family have a hunting license. 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:58.240 In Germany, you need to have a license, which 00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:00.759 actually takes you about between a year and two 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:03.649 years to make. depending on like how how far 00:01:03.649 --> 00:01:06.030 you want to take it that doesn't also mean that 00:01:06.030 --> 00:01:07.670 you can just go out and hunt that means that 00:01:07.670 --> 00:01:11.650 you know about how the animals live what sort 00:01:11.650 --> 00:01:13.670 of cycles they have you know about what milk 00:01:13.670 --> 00:01:16.590 makes a healthy forest the anatomy of the animals 00:01:16.590 --> 00:01:19.409 etc etc diseases and then you can go with a local 00:01:19.409 --> 00:01:21.750 hunter and like all the territories kind of like 00:01:21.750 --> 00:01:24.640 divided up But yes, I grew up with a lot of game. 00:01:24.680 --> 00:01:27.219 It's a big part of German and Spanish cooking 00:01:27.219 --> 00:01:29.379 culture. Yeah, Central Europe in general, I would 00:01:29.379 --> 00:01:32.519 say. Yeah, for sure. And some parts more than 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:35.099 others, you know. For sure. What about you? For 00:01:35.099 --> 00:01:39.200 me, it's completely different. I grew up in Caracas, 00:01:39.219 --> 00:01:41.980 in a big city, and there is no hunting there 00:01:41.980 --> 00:01:46.579 at all. There is hunting in... in venezuela like 00:01:46.579 --> 00:01:52.060 in deeper regions i remember having a deer in 00:01:52.060 --> 00:01:55.379 venezuela they're also like this river peak something 00:01:55.379 --> 00:01:58.060 like that okay like a capybara kind of yeah exactly 00:01:58.060 --> 00:02:01.140 oh yeah yeah we call it that's also something 00:02:01.140 --> 00:02:03.459 that you will find also some styles of boars 00:02:03.459 --> 00:02:08.240 but in general i i i was very ignorant to the 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:11.060 whole game thing until i came to europe the first 00:02:11.060 --> 00:02:13.740 restaurant i i worked in europe was mugaritz 00:02:13.740 --> 00:02:18.210 and They've always worked with these little birds, 00:02:18.430 --> 00:02:21.090 like different kinds of little birds. And for 00:02:21.090 --> 00:02:23.310 me, it's the best place where I've tried them. 00:02:23.469 --> 00:02:27.250 But then I also worked in Catalonia, in Racoda 00:02:27.250 --> 00:02:30.849 Campavas, where I had to pluck birds for weeks. 00:02:31.310 --> 00:02:35.490 Yeah. As a punishment. It's a lot of work. No, 00:02:35.590 --> 00:02:37.729 but literally, that's all I would do, like all 00:02:37.729 --> 00:02:40.050 day long, just pluck birds. But I also plucked 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:42.490 birds in Mugari, so I already knew how to do 00:02:42.490 --> 00:02:45.360 this. And it was the first time that I got in 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:47.699 contact with, you know, like having this strong 00:02:47.699 --> 00:02:51.439 gamey flavor. Because I remember also having 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:55.180 tried, let's say, boar in Venezuela for an international 00:02:55.180 --> 00:02:58.120 event. But for me, this was like some kind of 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:01.479 like a dark pig without the gamey flavor. For 00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:03.460 me, that's like a very distinctive flavor that 00:03:03.460 --> 00:03:06.819 makes the game game. And it's this, I would describe 00:03:06.819 --> 00:03:11.939 it, I don't know, like the smell of... a horse 00:03:11.939 --> 00:03:13.979 hair or something like that like a very strong 00:03:13.979 --> 00:03:19.639 aroma a very strong quality to it like iron and 00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:21.979 this kind of things yeah and for me that that's 00:03:21.979 --> 00:03:25.120 what game is about and and how you build a drink 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:28.460 around it and a sauce and everything yeah absolutely 00:03:28.460 --> 00:03:30.919 i mean it's like gamey flavor i mean you call 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:34.280 it gamey flavor you know in english it can be 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:37.969 it can be very nice and very balanced and very 00:03:37.969 --> 00:03:40.310 pleasant, or it can be really, really overpowering. 00:03:40.330 --> 00:03:43.710 It depends on a lot of stuff, you know, the stage 00:03:43.710 --> 00:03:46.090 of what the animal is in, how it's shot is very 00:03:46.090 --> 00:03:48.770 important, you know. So you can't just, it's 00:03:48.770 --> 00:03:50.810 not just like you shoot it until it's dead. Like, 00:03:50.810 --> 00:03:53.229 it has to be very specific shot. For example, 00:03:53.270 --> 00:03:56.689 deer, you have to shoot traditionally through 00:03:56.689 --> 00:03:58.889 the back shoulder blade into the heart so you 00:03:58.889 --> 00:04:01.569 don't rupture any important organs that will 00:04:01.569 --> 00:04:03.490 taint the meat. I think we should, like, maybe 00:04:03.490 --> 00:04:05.110 go through, like, the different types of game. 00:04:05.500 --> 00:04:08.039 and kind of talk about that you know i mean yeah 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:14.139 sure in germany um it's definitely boar and um 00:04:14.139 --> 00:04:18.199 and deer the different types of venison yeah 00:04:18.199 --> 00:04:20.240 i mean boar you were talking about it's like 00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:22.759 water pigs what do they taste like i'm not i'm 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:24.519 not super familiar with that one with the cheek 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:27.420 reader like i i tried it a few times and it was 00:04:27.420 --> 00:04:30.540 not like uh i wasn't even a cook back then what 00:04:30.540 --> 00:04:35.029 i had back back there was like a boar Yeah, I 00:04:35.029 --> 00:04:39.410 really got in contact with what I understand 00:04:39.410 --> 00:04:42.670 as game when I came to Europe. I mean, in Germany, 00:04:42.709 --> 00:04:45.730 like boar, there's boars everywhere, right? Boars 00:04:45.730 --> 00:04:49.189 almost to a point where they're a plague, especially 00:04:49.189 --> 00:04:51.129 like in the north of Germany, in the area around 00:04:51.129 --> 00:04:53.189 Berlin, Brandenburg, there used to be a big problem, 00:04:53.290 --> 00:04:57.069 which is why hunting is also important. We need 00:04:57.069 --> 00:04:58.629 to talk about the ethical side of hunting also, 00:04:58.750 --> 00:05:02.500 right? especially like i feel like americans 00:05:02.500 --> 00:05:04.040 that's kind of like a hunting you're just shooting 00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:06.680 animals it's like gun obsession and blah but 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:10.199 actually hunting done in a good way is maintaining 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:12.899 a certain ecosystem because obviously it's the 00:05:12.899 --> 00:05:15.420 human influence that the ecosystems aren't what 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:17.600 they used to be anymore but that's why it's also 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:19.240 important to keep a sort of like equilibrium 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:22.959 because there's not a natural sort of like predator 00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:26.339 prey um relationship anymore so you basically 00:05:26.339 --> 00:05:29.040 i mean in germany anyway a job a hunter's job 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:31.680 is to keep the forest healthy and keep the equilibrium 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:35.459 going and so um yeah ball in germany plenty plenty 00:05:35.459 --> 00:05:39.420 also really high quality um usually like stewed 00:05:39.420 --> 00:05:42.019 but lately there's like a couple of chefs that 00:05:42.019 --> 00:05:44.459 have tried to approach balls in a different way 00:05:44.459 --> 00:05:47.870 because such a cool product and trying to find 00:05:47.870 --> 00:05:49.910 a different way of making it. So, for example, 00:05:49.949 --> 00:05:53.550 Lode van Zulian of a restaurant Remy in Berlin, 00:05:53.670 --> 00:05:57.069 he was serving this boar steak, which was super 00:05:57.069 --> 00:05:59.170 cool, I thought, because nobody does that. Like 00:05:59.170 --> 00:06:01.149 with good pigs, when you separate, for example, 00:06:01.189 --> 00:06:03.290 if you take a thigh that you normally have to 00:06:03.290 --> 00:06:06.209 cut down and brace, but if you separate all the 00:06:06.209 --> 00:06:08.170 different muscle strands and the connective tissue, 00:06:08.329 --> 00:06:10.889 and then you can take these individual muscles 00:06:10.889 --> 00:06:13.430 and treat them almost like a piece of meat that 00:06:13.430 --> 00:06:15.779 you can cook pink. I think that's super, super 00:06:15.779 --> 00:06:18.259 interesting. Oh yeah, for sure. We were just 00:06:18.259 --> 00:06:20.300 talking about that yesterday, because this conversation 00:06:20.300 --> 00:06:23.779 started because yesterday we had a game dish, 00:06:24.019 --> 00:06:26.379 becada. How do you say becada in Spanish? Snipe. 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:30.300 Snipe. Snipe bird that was stood. And I had that 00:06:30.300 --> 00:06:32.079 bird before, but every time I had it, it was 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:35.139 this more modern approach, like cooking it basically 00:06:35.139 --> 00:06:37.920 like a very rare steak, where it's just grilled 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:40.439 on the outside or pink or even red on the inside. 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:43.300 And for me, that's the best way. for me still 00:06:43.300 --> 00:06:45.560 is the best way, like I really enjoy it that 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:48.899 way. But the traditional way is stewed, you know, 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:51.500 like in a sauce, cooked in a sauce and so on. 00:06:51.779 --> 00:06:55.060 Same thing with boars. Like I was traveling, 00:06:55.180 --> 00:06:58.540 I was backpacking in Italy, in the Tuscany, and 00:06:58.540 --> 00:07:02.079 there are a lot of boars around there. And I 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:05.439 was like illegally camping around with my, just 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:07.810 traveling with my tent. Because I was poor, I 00:07:07.810 --> 00:07:10.649 had no money for hotels. It was just a bum, basically. 00:07:10.870 --> 00:07:12.990 Of course. Jokes aside, I would send my brother 00:07:12.990 --> 00:07:16.509 my GPS location every night. So if I got eaten 00:07:16.509 --> 00:07:19.410 by boars, at least he would know where to find 00:07:19.410 --> 00:07:24.029 me. Where to look through the boar poop to find 00:07:24.029 --> 00:07:28.579 remnants of area. And so I was scared about boars 00:07:28.579 --> 00:07:30.560 because I read about it. They're dangerous. They're 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:33.000 dangerous. And basically what you have to do 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:35.600 is you have to climb a tree to avoid any attack. 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:38.740 So I would camp strategically where I would see 00:07:38.740 --> 00:07:41.459 a tree that I was able to climb and I would think 00:07:41.459 --> 00:07:44.100 about this kind of stuff. But I didn't have contact 00:07:44.100 --> 00:07:46.680 just once with a boar and I shit in my pants. 00:07:46.779 --> 00:07:49.000 It was like, what the fuck? It just walked across 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:53.899 me and I was like, ah! And... so the only thing 00:07:53.899 --> 00:07:56.120 that made me feel better was just after that 00:07:56.120 --> 00:07:58.079 to go to a restaurant and have like a chingales 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:01.699 too just to feel the superiority of my species 00:08:01.699 --> 00:08:05.220 of course as you do exactly i really enjoyed 00:08:05.220 --> 00:08:09.000 that but um so this again was like a poor stew 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:12.560 yeah and cooked in sauce and i again like okay 00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:15.319 okay of course pork is more delicate and you 00:08:15.319 --> 00:08:16.860 have to really understand what you're doing if 00:08:16.860 --> 00:08:21.079 you're going to cook it pink or red yeah exactly 00:08:21.079 --> 00:08:23.759 but it's also doable for sure you know like but 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:26.019 you have to know what you're doing yeah i mean 00:08:26.019 --> 00:08:30.540 like game like meat is one of the best sources 00:08:30.540 --> 00:08:34.039 of protein that you can have it's mega mega healthy 00:08:34.039 --> 00:08:38.179 it's super good because if it's a good healthy 00:08:38.179 --> 00:08:41.440 animal with no diseases it'll have had a really 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:45.639 really good life outside eating very very healthy 00:08:45.639 --> 00:08:49.539 things you know like little insects and herbs 00:08:49.539 --> 00:08:53.779 and perennials and stuff like that. Very lean 00:08:53.779 --> 00:08:57.840 most of the time, very little fat and just packed 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:01.220 full of nutrients and protein. It's really, really 00:09:01.220 --> 00:09:04.620 healthy. I think more people should eat game 00:09:04.620 --> 00:09:08.440 meat. Do game animals have microchips with GPS 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:11.639 in Germany? No, not really. Because I know a 00:09:11.639 --> 00:09:15.600 story about here some they have, but you will 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:18.029 also find out, let's say in... well that with 00:09:18.029 --> 00:09:20.750 gps is more modern but for example with birds 00:09:20.750 --> 00:09:23.710 they would put rings in the rings yeah you know 00:09:23.710 --> 00:09:26.669 to study the bird you know like to measure how 00:09:26.669 --> 00:09:30.350 big the the wings are and if somebody catches 00:09:30.350 --> 00:09:33.110 the same bird like sometime later they can't 00:09:33.110 --> 00:09:35.409 do studies and this kind of stuff yeah so i know 00:09:35.409 --> 00:09:38.049 this story that they found like uh it was like 00:09:38.049 --> 00:09:41.870 this board that had a gps and they found they 00:09:41.870 --> 00:09:44.950 found it in the freezer of a hunter in galicia 00:09:44.950 --> 00:09:50.450 yeah because it was illegally hunted but through 00:09:50.450 --> 00:09:52.929 the gps they they found the guy it was already 00:09:52.929 --> 00:09:57.230 chopped and freezed that's crazy that's so funny 00:09:57.230 --> 00:09:59.230 yeah you have to be careful yeah illegal hunting 00:09:59.230 --> 00:10:03.450 is a big thing it's like it's a big crime i remember 00:10:03.450 --> 00:10:05.309 for example in venezuela working in a restaurant 00:10:05.309 --> 00:10:08.990 where they would It was like a wedding, and they 00:10:08.990 --> 00:10:12.090 would arrive with these sacks, like potato sacks, 00:10:12.210 --> 00:10:18.289 you know? Potato bags full of lobsters. But like, 00:10:18.409 --> 00:10:20.909 I'm talking about, I don't know, maybe 100 kilos 00:10:20.909 --> 00:10:23.870 of lobster, and this was out of season. So it 00:10:23.870 --> 00:10:28.139 was illegal catching. yeah and just like ah you 00:10:28.139 --> 00:10:29.919 know we need to make money you know especially 00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:32.659 in latin america where whatever you can bribe 00:10:32.659 --> 00:10:35.120 whoever you can do whatever you want you know 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:37.879 like these things are a huge ecological problem 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:40.519 yeah what else deer obviously i think deer is 00:10:40.519 --> 00:10:43.279 the king of the game venison you know yeah i 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:45.799 mean it's i was kind of wondering about this 00:10:45.799 --> 00:10:47.679 in other like places of the world i've only really 00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:52.120 seen venison like very popular in in europe it's 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:54.320 like there's a season if it's hunting season 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:56.919 you know you'll see venison on a lot of menus 00:10:56.919 --> 00:10:59.899 boar stew or venison right venison loin usually 00:10:59.899 --> 00:11:02.840 but yeah yet again venison is also something 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:05.620 that i've seen like traditional german recipes 00:11:05.620 --> 00:11:08.639 where it's marinated overnight with a lot of 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:10.860 stuff and this kind of things and then stewed 00:11:10.860 --> 00:11:13.679 with like red wine and exactly an orange and 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:16.960 lots of spices and and for me again like what 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:19.679 i love about a good venison is eating it like 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:22.610 a steak or like a pink jay. 100%, that's so good. 00:11:22.789 --> 00:11:24.490 I mean, with venison also, it's really, really 00:11:24.490 --> 00:11:26.269 good. This technique that I was talking about, 00:11:26.389 --> 00:11:28.769 like two years ago, I used to have venison on 00:11:28.769 --> 00:11:31.049 the menu a lot because I was working with this 00:11:31.049 --> 00:11:33.629 venison farmer because you can farm venison also. 00:11:33.750 --> 00:11:36.730 He has like big areas where the deer run around 00:11:36.730 --> 00:11:40.950 wild and stuff until they're shot. And he would 00:11:40.950 --> 00:11:43.710 send me shoulders that I would then like take 00:11:43.710 --> 00:11:45.750 apart, completely marinate with a little bit 00:11:45.750 --> 00:11:47.509 of garum that we were making from all the meat 00:11:47.509 --> 00:11:50.669 offcuts and then just grill. Grill, rest, grill, 00:11:50.789 --> 00:11:53.269 rest, grill, rest, pink. Absolutely delicious. 00:11:53.429 --> 00:11:55.429 That's all you need. Some of the best meat ever. 00:11:55.610 --> 00:11:58.490 You don't need to overcomplicate it. Just throw 00:11:58.490 --> 00:12:01.409 it to the grill. Yeah, totally. Do you think 00:12:01.409 --> 00:12:04.870 game can be raised in a farm or that wouldn't 00:12:04.870 --> 00:12:07.110 be game anymore? No, I think so. Like, I mean, 00:12:07.149 --> 00:12:09.889 it's definitely game. It's like, I mean, you 00:12:09.889 --> 00:12:14.649 can't raise it in a farm that is like bad farm 00:12:14.649 --> 00:12:17.009 practice anyway, you know, where everything is 00:12:17.009 --> 00:12:19.769 sort of like... you can have areas that are fenced 00:12:19.769 --> 00:12:21.769 off where they have a natural environment where 00:12:21.769 --> 00:12:24.090 they run around and you kind of control how they 00:12:24.090 --> 00:12:26.950 reproduce you can make sure that they have all 00:12:26.950 --> 00:12:29.009 the all the things that they need to eat they 00:12:29.009 --> 00:12:30.990 you know that they're healthy it's also good 00:12:30.990 --> 00:12:33.230 because they're like protected from from predators 00:12:33.230 --> 00:12:35.190 and from other diseases you know cross contamination 00:12:35.190 --> 00:12:37.750 with like you know because like the game travels 00:12:37.750 --> 00:12:40.289 can travel like quite a long while and i think 00:12:40.289 --> 00:12:41.990 that's totally fine and i think that's actually 00:12:41.990 --> 00:12:44.110 really really good and that's this is a sort 00:12:44.110 --> 00:12:47.519 of farming practice that we should support more 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.519 of where animals are in an environment that is 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:52.419 their natural environment they're roaming free 00:12:52.419 --> 00:12:53.820 they're on the fresh air they're eating natural 00:12:53.820 --> 00:12:56.460 foods they're not getting pumped up full of hormones 00:12:56.460 --> 00:12:58.899 and whatever and then at some point you know 00:12:58.899 --> 00:13:01.759 they are used for their meat yeah i remember 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:05.639 with my brother in houston visiting a place where 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:10.460 they had squab oh yeah but yeah these squabs 00:13:10.460 --> 00:13:14.320 were like you know America. So these were like 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:18.679 micro fat chickens, you know, and it felt completely 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:21.279 raised to me. It didn't have it. I mean, it was 00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:24.340 delicious. I have to say super fatty, but I was 00:13:24.340 --> 00:13:27.340 missing that gamey flavor that what I said that 00:13:27.340 --> 00:13:29.980 I could describe it as the smell of horse hair, 00:13:30.139 --> 00:13:34.059 something like that. It didn't have this. And 00:13:34.059 --> 00:13:37.509 I'm sure they were raised. birds you know like 00:13:37.509 --> 00:13:40.309 for me like a squat like a proper one you have 00:13:40.309 --> 00:13:42.950 to get the the bullets out of your mouth while 00:13:42.950 --> 00:13:45.690 you're eating you know like yeah yeah that's 00:13:45.690 --> 00:13:49.049 true i mean like for me the most beautiful uh 00:13:49.049 --> 00:13:52.909 game cooking that i've encountered was for one 00:13:52.909 --> 00:13:56.289 in england in the uk absolutely amazing if you've 00:13:56.289 --> 00:13:58.690 not been to the uk in like game season you know 00:13:58.690 --> 00:14:02.970 um it's it's super celebrated all the restaurants 00:14:02.970 --> 00:14:04.929 in london have game on the menu It's not just 00:14:04.929 --> 00:14:06.750 like every now, here, and there, or like fine 00:14:06.750 --> 00:14:11.990 dining. There's venison. There's mallard, which 00:14:11.990 --> 00:14:14.409 is a wild duck, right? They're like ducks that 00:14:14.409 --> 00:14:17.029 are flying, you know, the fluke engine. Yeah. 00:14:17.710 --> 00:14:21.460 There's grouse. We had those wild dogs and campawas 00:14:21.460 --> 00:14:23.120 as well. They're amazing. Yeah, and it's like 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:24.799 a completely different thing because again, it 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:26.899 has this gamey note that I'm saying. It can be 00:14:26.899 --> 00:14:29.179 uncomfortable for someone who doesn't understand 00:14:29.179 --> 00:14:31.580 what it is because it's a very strong flavor 00:14:31.580 --> 00:14:34.639 and it's not what you find in a normal supermarket 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:38.559 dog. Grouse, also super underrated bird. Pheasant, 00:14:38.679 --> 00:14:42.080 you know, all over the place. And all the menus 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:45.179 say underneath, like, I mean, mostly they say 00:14:45.179 --> 00:14:48.759 game may contain shot. exactly yeah which is 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:50.799 like important this is a natural product it gets 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:52.879 shot it comes from the fucking countryside and 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:55.860 it's kind of like a hunter that is skillful will 00:14:55.860 --> 00:14:58.340 shoot the game, especially the birds, because 00:14:58.340 --> 00:15:01.399 the birds need to be shot with like the small 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:03.940 bullets, you know, the grape shot. Yeah, in Spanish 00:15:03.940 --> 00:15:08.279 it's perdigones, it's like a rain of little bullets. 00:15:09.539 --> 00:15:11.419 They'll shoot it in a way that, you know, it 00:15:11.419 --> 00:15:12.960 doesn't damage the meat because if you shoot 00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:14.559 it wrong it's just going to completely blow up 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:18.379 the bird. I was not kidding or nor exaggerating 00:15:18.379 --> 00:15:20.940 when I said that finding a bullet in your mouth 00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:24.509 is an indicator of the quality of game. And you 00:15:24.509 --> 00:15:26.450 have to understand that while you're eating, 00:15:26.690 --> 00:15:28.769 it's like when you're eating fish, you won't 00:15:28.769 --> 00:15:32.350 just swallow without thinking. You have to understand 00:15:32.350 --> 00:15:34.730 that there can be bones and you have to be careful. 00:15:34.809 --> 00:15:37.809 Absolutely. A super, super beautiful game culture. 00:15:37.970 --> 00:15:42.730 And then obviously France has an insane culture 00:15:42.730 --> 00:15:47.860 of cooking game. in a way that is almost mythical 00:15:47.860 --> 00:15:50.899 to me so things about that that i really love 00:15:50.899 --> 00:15:53.659 like french game cooking especially with birds 00:15:53.659 --> 00:15:57.659 is like taking all the offals and flambéing this 00:15:57.659 --> 00:16:02.480 and maybe adding some orange or citrus and i 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:06.360 mean like this pate this paste of the all of 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:10.039 the offals made into some kind of black pudding 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:13.200 -ish kind of thing yeah i love that yeah i also 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:16.500 love using the the offal to bind sauces together 00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:20.039 amazing yeah so so so delicious it might sound 00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:21.779 to people that are not used to it really disgusting 00:16:21.779 --> 00:16:26.399 but it's um it's also not super easy to do because 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:28.159 if you boil it it's going to curdle and it's 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:29.659 going to be sort of like scrambled egg sauce 00:16:29.659 --> 00:16:32.639 and it's really awful also with blood because 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:35.919 it's basically just pure protein um but if you 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:38.240 do it right it's just like chocolatey creamy 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:41.820 exactly that's also like a dirty trick adding 00:16:41.820 --> 00:16:44.620 just a little bit of chocolate just a little 00:16:44.620 --> 00:16:47.279 that you want it won't taste like chocolate you 00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:50.320 can also do that of course but just a little 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:52.960 bit that adds color it binds it it has this cocoa 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:56.960 notes uh put on the back and i that for me that 00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:59.259 works amazingly well you know the thing about 00:16:59.259 --> 00:17:00.860 game cooking is now that we're talking about 00:17:00.860 --> 00:17:04.279 it is it's a real appreciation for the animal 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:07.619 like i and i wish we would do that with more 00:17:07.619 --> 00:17:09.839 animals where it's kind of like like you were 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:11.769 saying just with the offal a lot of restaurants 00:17:11.769 --> 00:17:13.750 that i really like for example the uk when you 00:17:13.750 --> 00:17:16.549 order let's say a grouse or a snipe or whatever 00:17:16.549 --> 00:17:18.809 you often get like a little piece of like toasted 00:17:18.809 --> 00:17:21.869 bread with the offals flambéed on top of it like 00:17:21.869 --> 00:17:24.269 an awful toast yeah that's exactly what so you 00:17:24.269 --> 00:17:25.849 have the meat and you have the offers on the 00:17:25.849 --> 00:17:27.809 side and you you appreciate the whole animal 00:17:27.809 --> 00:17:30.170 yeah and because it's something special it took 00:17:30.170 --> 00:17:32.069 a lot of effort to get it and it's very short 00:17:32.069 --> 00:17:35.250 season you celebrate that time and that moment 00:17:35.250 --> 00:17:37.230 that you can have it and you celebrate the life 00:17:37.230 --> 00:17:39.450 of the animal that you that you took so that 00:17:39.450 --> 00:17:41.630 you can eat it And I think that's really beautiful 00:17:41.630 --> 00:17:43.450 and I wish that we would do that with a lot more 00:17:43.450 --> 00:17:46.470 stuff. Imagine we would do that with chickens 00:17:46.470 --> 00:17:49.210 or imagine we would do that with cows. It would 00:17:49.210 --> 00:17:51.849 be amazing. Absolutely, yeah. And a lot less 00:17:51.849 --> 00:17:54.150 food waste. Well, I think all folks are having 00:17:54.150 --> 00:17:57.930 a comeback. Statistically, here in Spain, they're 00:17:57.930 --> 00:18:01.769 having a huge comeback. People are more open 00:18:01.769 --> 00:18:04.829 to it, both from the sustainability side but 00:18:04.829 --> 00:18:07.890 also from the adventurous. approach to eating 00:18:07.890 --> 00:18:10.450 and you find more and more in restaurants of 00:18:10.450 --> 00:18:12.009 course there are traditional things that have 00:18:12.009 --> 00:18:14.869 always been there but like more strange things 00:18:14.869 --> 00:18:17.430 are starting to have way more acceptance yeah 00:18:17.430 --> 00:18:21.589 yeah totally game bones for me one of my favorite 00:18:21.589 --> 00:18:25.009 bases to cook sauce out of i used to when i was 00:18:25.009 --> 00:18:27.049 working at auto we used to make jus just by like 00:18:27.049 --> 00:18:29.730 getting really good venison bones which again 00:18:29.730 --> 00:18:32.130 is like using the whole animal right with a little 00:18:32.130 --> 00:18:34.690 bit of meat on them roasting them really really 00:18:34.690 --> 00:18:38.460 dark Then piling a pot full of them with roasted 00:18:38.460 --> 00:18:41.279 onions and just adding enough water to cover 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:43.920 it and then slowly reducing it down. Not like 00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:46.480 vegetables here and wine and blah, just like 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:49.420 pure, pure meat sauce. Okay. It was super, super 00:18:49.420 --> 00:18:52.019 delicious. Completely concentrated. And for me, 00:18:52.140 --> 00:18:55.740 like, as you know, I'm not the person that will 00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:59.660 have wine all over the meal and every meal and 00:18:59.660 --> 00:19:03.460 a long wine pairing with a meal. with game I 00:19:03.460 --> 00:19:05.839 think it's relevant to have like a proper full 00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:10.500 -bodied heavy strong red whatever it is absolutely 00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:13.319 in that direction yeah have you ever made um 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:19.140 I haven't made it no no but I I know the dish 00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:21.500 and I've seen many versions of it and I I tried 00:19:21.500 --> 00:19:24.619 a few but I haven't cooked it myself it's a I 00:19:24.619 --> 00:19:26.500 think it's a super amazing dish I really got 00:19:26.500 --> 00:19:29.000 into it when I was at Mugaritz because when game 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:33.220 season hit We tried to look into it. Pascal Barbeau 00:19:33.220 --> 00:19:35.660 in his book, in his last transcript book, has 00:19:35.660 --> 00:19:38.700 like three pages talking about this dish. It's 00:19:38.700 --> 00:19:41.160 basically traditionally like a three -day process 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:45.799 of like marinating the meat, cooking it down, 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:48.980 straining, making the sauce, shredding the meat, 00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:50.519 putting it back together, putting it back into 00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:56.500 the sauce. It's basically hair in a very rich, 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:00.779 meaty game sauce. but it's so luxurious when 00:20:00.779 --> 00:20:03.680 it's done right i think like you know Paul Bocuse 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.380 was famous for it it's really almost comically 00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:10.900 obscene rabbit with the heads that was then sourced 00:20:10.900 --> 00:20:13.000 yeah and this this famous head chef that he has 00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:17.039 this mustache guy that is an mof best craftsman 00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:23.180 in france he was like a master yeah it's such 00:20:23.180 --> 00:20:26.660 a luxurious dish it's uh it's amazing are snakes 00:20:26.660 --> 00:20:31.670 game snakes Ah, snails. No, snakes. Snakes. Like 00:20:31.670 --> 00:20:33.609 if you're somewhere where there's snakes and 00:20:33.609 --> 00:20:35.250 you catch a snake, would you consider that game? 00:20:35.410 --> 00:20:38.710 Where do we draw the line? Wow. Okay, it's a 00:20:38.710 --> 00:20:42.150 good question because I feel it has to be red 00:20:42.150 --> 00:20:46.890 meat to be game. Otherwise, probably not reptiles. 00:20:47.309 --> 00:20:49.549 Because, of course, you can hunt a crocodile. 00:20:49.630 --> 00:20:54.170 And I've had that in Bolivia. We did ceviches 00:20:54.170 --> 00:20:56.950 with crocodile meat. Which is interesting because 00:20:56.950 --> 00:20:59.380 it feels like a chicken. somewhere between a 00:20:59.380 --> 00:21:01.799 chicken and a fish ceviche with crocodile meat 00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:05.180 yeah wow that's intense yeah and yeah that that 00:21:05.180 --> 00:21:07.039 was like a super nice dish from camila's idler 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:10.980 uh but yeah they they were like different so 00:21:10.980 --> 00:21:12.900 it was not a ceviche ceviche more like a tiradito 00:21:12.900 --> 00:21:16.619 with different parts of the watermelon uh so 00:21:16.619 --> 00:21:19.099 it was a like a nose to take cooking off the 00:21:19.099 --> 00:21:22.359 watermelon so like using all the parts of the 00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:24.799 fruit like the skin different parts and pickling 00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:31.039 it and infusing it with the herbs and yeah super 00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:34.000 nice that's really cool one of the most outstanding 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:36.559 game dishes that i've ever had it's also for 00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:39.779 me the dish that most stands out from my time 00:21:39.779 --> 00:21:42.400 in mugaritz was a dish that ramon perisse made 00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:47.099 and it was um kind of like a spontaneous dish 00:21:47.099 --> 00:21:50.559 for a returning customer and i think that like 00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:53.839 especially in the time when i was there the spontaneous 00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:55.819 dishes that they made for like regulars were 00:21:55.819 --> 00:22:00.660 the best And it was snipe that was stewed in 00:22:00.660 --> 00:22:02.980 like a really Catalan sort of way, like a game 00:22:02.980 --> 00:22:09.000 stew with bacalao tribes, salt cod tribe. And 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:12.779 this mixture of fish and game flavor together 00:22:12.779 --> 00:22:15.339 with the gelatinous quality that it gave to the 00:22:15.339 --> 00:22:17.440 meat sauce. That's insane. Absolutely insane. 00:22:17.700 --> 00:22:19.559 And I'm still thinking about that. Because that 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:23.279 cod tribe is really like, it has such a particular 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:28.460 texture, you know. kind of sticky but soft and 00:22:28.460 --> 00:22:34.559 um it's fishy but but also mild so it's like 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:36.460 a super interesting thing to me that was like 00:22:36.460 --> 00:22:40.140 still today like super super high yeah surf and 00:22:40.140 --> 00:22:42.519 turf with with especially with birds i think 00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:45.579 it's incredible yeah and when i'm talking about 00:22:45.579 --> 00:22:49.279 spices i think game is also like a super nice 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:52.720 playground for spices i can think of rassel i 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:56.089 can think of What's the thing that you put on 00:22:56.089 --> 00:23:03.470 gin? Juniper berries. Juniper berries or anise, 00:23:03.470 --> 00:23:06.910 cinnamon, all those kind of things. But I think, 00:23:06.950 --> 00:23:10.029 again, you want to be subtle with spices. You 00:23:10.029 --> 00:23:13.250 want the meat to keep the protagonism. But, for 00:23:13.250 --> 00:23:15.750 example, if you have, like, you mentioned having 00:23:15.750 --> 00:23:20.029 a bread with this awful paste. Imagine, for example, 00:23:20.170 --> 00:23:25.630 a brioche that is spiced. Having that there, 00:23:25.809 --> 00:23:31.289 at least in my mental palate, works amazingly 00:23:31.289 --> 00:23:33.910 well. That's a really nice idea. A few years 00:23:33.910 --> 00:23:37.089 ago, I had these really, really wonderful geese 00:23:37.089 --> 00:23:39.490 on the menu. And geese, it's kind of like, well, 00:23:39.569 --> 00:23:44.430 are they game? Kind of in the middle. But they 00:23:44.430 --> 00:23:47.279 are full of really beautiful offal. So I would 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:51.740 do a piece of sourdough, toast it, like grilled, 00:23:51.859 --> 00:23:54.640 and then one side soaked in like geese jus and 00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:57.119 brown butter, just so like half of it soaks full. 00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:00.759 Then the offal grilled on the grill, put on top. 00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:04.240 And then from, we had Szechuan peppercorns that 00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:06.779 we were growing in the garden. Amazing. Just 00:24:06.779 --> 00:24:08.680 a little bit of like fresh green Szechuan pepper 00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:12.369 on top. amazing absolutely amazing then you have 00:24:12.369 --> 00:24:13.809 a couple of herbs on top and you have this like 00:24:13.809 --> 00:24:16.250 juicy bread that when you bite into it the juices 00:24:16.250 --> 00:24:18.690 kind of flow out of the bread like a sponge and 00:24:18.690 --> 00:24:21.710 it's like slightly spicy creamy awful that was 00:24:21.710 --> 00:24:23.569 a stellar dish it was incredible you know what 00:24:23.569 --> 00:24:26.009 this is something i haven't tried but it makes 00:24:26.009 --> 00:24:30.970 perfect sense in my mind uh having a proper nice 00:24:30.970 --> 00:24:35.069 mole with game i think that's a much made in 00:24:35.069 --> 00:24:38.670 heaven 100 yeah absolutely easily one thing that 00:24:38.670 --> 00:24:41.569 i also thought that was really cool is venison 00:24:41.569 --> 00:24:45.329 tataki so i used to work with this really really 00:24:45.329 --> 00:24:47.750 inspiring chef called junior yamasaki who's now 00:24:47.750 --> 00:24:52.950 got a restaurant in la called yes and he had 00:24:52.950 --> 00:24:58.009 a very very or still has a very unique vision 00:24:58.009 --> 00:25:02.549 very pure very real food and he used to take 00:25:02.549 --> 00:25:06.160 venison loins and skewer them and then on a grill 00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:09.220 throw a big bunch of hay so that it would like 00:25:09.220 --> 00:25:11.380 flame up and he would hold the venison into the 00:25:11.380 --> 00:25:13.940 flame so it was like half smoked half seared 00:25:13.940 --> 00:25:17.180 really really high intensity and then take it 00:25:17.180 --> 00:25:20.539 off then slice it really thin as a tataki super 00:25:20.539 --> 00:25:23.599 delicious and he served that with back then with 00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:27.220 preserved crab apples you know crab apples these 00:25:27.220 --> 00:25:31.890 like little apples like this tiny wild apples 00:25:31.890 --> 00:25:33.970 yeah exactly you can't eat them raw you usually 00:25:33.970 --> 00:25:36.609 make them into like jellies or pickles or yeah 00:25:36.609 --> 00:25:39.150 and they have a super distinctive flavor also 00:25:39.150 --> 00:25:41.589 and you use that you kind of like preserve them 00:25:41.589 --> 00:25:43.990 with like it was like a little bit mustardy and 00:25:43.990 --> 00:25:47.029 that together it was absolutely incredible um 00:25:47.029 --> 00:25:50.990 but obviously it takes balls to serve um venison 00:25:50.990 --> 00:25:55.369 raw but a venison tartar also amazing used to 00:25:55.369 --> 00:25:57.390 do this thing where all the rest of the like 00:25:57.390 --> 00:25:59.210 the offcuts of the venison i used to make into 00:25:59.210 --> 00:26:02.069 this chunky tartar there's this really cool technique 00:26:02.069 --> 00:26:05.230 about making tartar that people at home can adapt 00:26:05.230 --> 00:26:07.470 if they want to i'll tell you my secret technique 00:26:07.470 --> 00:26:10.390 you take the the meat that you have it has to 00:26:10.390 --> 00:26:12.690 be clean of all the sinews right you cut it into 00:26:12.690 --> 00:26:15.210 walnut sized chunks or something that will work 00:26:15.210 --> 00:26:18.769 well for your grinder then you weigh it you calculate 00:26:18.769 --> 00:26:22.049 two percent of salt you add it to the meat mix 00:26:22.049 --> 00:26:24.269 it and you put it in the freezer so it's ice 00:26:24.269 --> 00:26:26.950 cold takes probably like half an hour and then 00:26:26.950 --> 00:26:29.430 you let that ice cold through a coarse mincer 00:26:29.430 --> 00:26:32.869 to mince it like one time and the salt obviously 00:26:32.869 --> 00:26:35.450 it seasons the meat throughout so it's almost 00:26:35.450 --> 00:26:38.230 like met you know have you had a met protein 00:26:38.230 --> 00:26:41.690 yes yes yeah yeah but also it cures the meat 00:26:41.690 --> 00:26:44.049 it changes the texture texture slightly it makes 00:26:44.049 --> 00:26:47.950 it bright red and kind of like wow how can i 00:26:47.950 --> 00:26:50.609 describe it yeah that's very danish isn't it 00:26:51.019 --> 00:26:53.740 in a way yeah maybe it is yeah yeah like i've 00:26:53.740 --> 00:26:55.500 seen that for me that reminds me of the style 00:26:55.500 --> 00:26:57.519 of tortas you will find in copenhagen like at 00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:00.619 manfred yeah yeah that's true yeah it was kind 00:27:00.619 --> 00:27:02.180 of similar like that and it's super delicious 00:27:02.180 --> 00:27:04.839 it changes the texture i used to serve it with 00:27:04.839 --> 00:27:07.940 like um anchovy mayonnaise well my which again 00:27:07.940 --> 00:27:11.619 is surf and turf yeah no and my top one tartar 00:27:11.619 --> 00:27:14.180 that i've ever had was a venison tartar in copenhagen 00:27:14.180 --> 00:27:16.480 i don't remember the place there's a place uh 00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:21.119 marvin ben oh yeah yeah okay and So it was venison 00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:23.400 tartare. But the interesting thing is, you know, 00:27:23.460 --> 00:27:25.940 in a tartare you want to add condiments, right? 00:27:26.019 --> 00:27:29.099 Like acidity, pickles, stuff like this. Well, 00:27:29.220 --> 00:27:31.720 it was, first of all, venison. And then all of 00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:34.519 this world of condiments and things was new Nordic. 00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:37.599 So you would have elements of the forest, like 00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:42.640 pine pickles or pine sprouts and all these sort 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:44.819 of things. And then on top of that, like the 00:27:44.819 --> 00:27:48.619 surf and turf component, also the egg. and salty 00:27:48.619 --> 00:27:52.539 component was caviar mixed into the tartare, 00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:55.640 which is something I think is relatively modern 00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:59.039 to find. And I see that more and more. I mean, 00:27:59.059 --> 00:28:02.500 caviar right now is completely hyped. Just recently, 00:28:02.539 --> 00:28:06.019 I saw an article in The Economist and New York 00:28:06.019 --> 00:28:09.440 Times that caviar is like on top of its moment 00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:12.019 right now. It's at a peak moment. of consumption 00:28:12.019 --> 00:28:14.700 but yeah having caviar and tartars is something 00:28:14.700 --> 00:28:17.960 i would say relatively modern i i haven't seen 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:20.660 that like i would say 20 years ago and now you 00:28:20.660 --> 00:28:23.900 see it relatively often anywhere you know and 00:28:23.900 --> 00:28:28.720 it had that it had like a cured quail yolk in 00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:31.319 the middle and then croutons and stuff and that 00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:33.980 was it it was incredible it sounds delicious 00:28:38.460 --> 00:28:40.980 That's it for this week's episode of Potluck 00:28:40.980 --> 00:28:43.359 Food Talks. If you like what we're doing, make 00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:45.619 sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never 00:28:45.619 --> 00:28:48.279 miss an episode. You can also find us on Instagram 00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:51.779 and TikTok as Potluck Food Talks. The show airs 00:28:51.779 --> 00:28:52.240 every Monday.