WEBVTT 00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:07.139 hi everyone welcome to pot luck food talks we're 00:00:07.139 --> 00:00:10.820 recording here in san sebastian and suddenly 00:00:10.820 --> 00:00:13.339 the sun came out sun came out like the golden 00:00:13.339 --> 00:00:16.859 child you are let there be light yeah and we're 00:00:16.859 --> 00:00:19.960 having like a super nice coffee from simona and 00:00:19.960 --> 00:00:22.000 i was just mentioning that was the old place 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:26.179 where sakona used to be but this is still sakona 00:00:26.179 --> 00:00:29.940 coffee roasted by Sakona and it's a super nice 00:00:29.940 --> 00:00:31.699 coffee what can you say about it? It's really 00:00:31.699 --> 00:00:33.899 nice I love this sort of coffee I like there's 00:00:33.899 --> 00:00:36.939 these kinds of coffee that especially like suited 00:00:36.939 --> 00:00:39.280 for like flat whites that have or like you know 00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:41.780 milky coffees that have this almost like blueberry 00:00:41.780 --> 00:00:44.880 flavor. Berry absolutely berry like I feel berries 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:47.060 all over the place on this one. That's super 00:00:47.060 --> 00:00:49.119 nice yeah you know what I'm super curious about 00:00:49.119 --> 00:00:52.119 is the normal coffee. Oh yeah yeah that's super 00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:55.320 interesting. we actually knew this since we went 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:58.399 to Noma they revealed this to us and made us 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:01.179 promise not to say anything until they made the 00:01:01.179 --> 00:01:06.780 the the first press release which was yesterday 00:01:06.780 --> 00:01:09.420 or the day before yeah i think the day before 00:01:09.420 --> 00:01:12.239 yeah um i mean we had some coffee at Noma but 00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:15.359 we had this like this coffee mix with like the 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:18.959 like lacto -fermented roast, espuma. It was like 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:22.439 a coffee, right? Yes, exactly. Exactly. Super 00:01:22.439 --> 00:01:24.760 nice. I'd be really interested to see what the 00:01:24.760 --> 00:01:27.620 difference in approach is for them, you know? 00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:30.480 And we'll also have some breakfast. Yeah. This 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:35.920 is Ama cheesecake. For me, the guys at Ama, they 00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:40.400 kind of coined this... Wait, wait, wait. Hold 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:45.129 on. What the fuck is going on here? There was 00:01:45.129 --> 00:01:48.349 a mouse. What the fuck is going on, guys? Someone 00:01:48.349 --> 00:01:54.530 couldn't resist. Unbelievable. We betted yesterday, 00:01:54.750 --> 00:01:57.189 so there was some vandalism in the apartment. 00:01:57.430 --> 00:02:00.370 Obviously. So I actually talked with Javi, who 00:02:00.370 --> 00:02:02.689 is one of the head chefs. There are two executive 00:02:02.689 --> 00:02:06.010 chefs at Ama, two partners. He told me they took 00:02:06.010 --> 00:02:09.530 one of the many versions of Hilario Arbelaites, 00:02:09.569 --> 00:02:13.770 who was the chef at Sueroa, who first coined... 00:02:14.490 --> 00:02:19.650 a style of cheesecake with blue cheese and they 00:02:19.650 --> 00:02:22.469 took one of the many versions he had and they 00:02:22.469 --> 00:02:25.229 developed it into their own thing so the the 00:02:25.229 --> 00:02:28.330 key feature about this cheesecake is it has blue 00:02:28.330 --> 00:02:31.189 cheese like you would notice is i haven't told 00:02:31.189 --> 00:02:33.289 you i already spoiled i should have played the 00:02:33.289 --> 00:02:36.629 guess what it is game and it's so little that 00:02:36.629 --> 00:02:39.069 you don't notice if nobody tells you but enough 00:02:39.069 --> 00:02:42.330 that you will miss it if it's not there yeah 00:02:42.729 --> 00:02:44.370 So give it a taste and let me know what you think. 00:02:44.849 --> 00:02:47.969 It's too windy here. It's very creamy. It's got 00:02:47.969 --> 00:02:50.449 a perfect texture. Wait, I should film this as 00:02:50.449 --> 00:02:59.330 well. The texture moment. That's very good. If 00:02:59.330 --> 00:03:04.169 you look, it's sad, but it's like ultra creamy. 00:03:05.849 --> 00:03:08.409 That's really fucking good. This is my favorite 00:03:08.409 --> 00:03:09.949 cheesecake in the Basque Country. I understand 00:03:09.949 --> 00:03:12.840 why. And the cheese flavor is so subtle. it's 00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:15.500 actually it's actually funny like the best cheesecake 00:03:15.500 --> 00:03:18.340 that i've had before also here in the bass country 00:03:18.340 --> 00:03:20.719 i mean like bass style cheesecake they had some 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:23.360 goat's cheese in it some fresh goat's cheese 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:27.680 very good it's a christina lirola made it super 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:30.680 super nice actually my friend of mine makes german 00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:33.280 style cheesecake i had his cheesecake one time 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:36.900 and he put some aged gouda in it just a little 00:03:36.900 --> 00:03:39.500 bit you know and it's got the same effect it 00:03:39.500 --> 00:03:43.389 just makes it like complex and fucking wow. Well, 00:03:43.490 --> 00:03:46.069 I have to say this is not my favorite cheesecake 00:03:46.069 --> 00:03:48.689 of them all, Basque cheesecake. My favorite cheesecake 00:03:48.689 --> 00:03:50.750 is, you know, my friend Jose, the Colombian guy. 00:03:50.889 --> 00:03:55.270 Yes. He started like a startup in Colombia called 00:03:55.270 --> 00:03:59.030 La Vasca. And for me, that's the very best cheesecake. 00:03:59.150 --> 00:04:03.590 He does like a cookie crust, which is not so 00:04:03.590 --> 00:04:07.229 common in Basque style. The key feature is usually 00:04:07.229 --> 00:04:10.669 crustless style. but i mean who doesn't like 00:04:10.669 --> 00:04:15.469 a cookie uh so classic combining like new york 00:04:15.469 --> 00:04:18.569 style with like past style the best way so and 00:04:18.569 --> 00:04:22.709 that one has also like an aged cheese and i know 00:04:22.709 --> 00:04:26.449 he did like dozens of tests until he got the 00:04:26.449 --> 00:04:29.930 sweet spot and for me it's 10 out of 10 that 00:04:29.930 --> 00:04:32.430 one this is also 10 out of 10 but i like that 00:04:32.430 --> 00:04:36.350 one better you can find that in and here in spain 00:04:36.350 --> 00:04:39.740 only Bogota and Medellin. Honestly, I love the 00:04:39.740 --> 00:04:43.180 size also. You know, I've always like with Basque 00:04:43.180 --> 00:04:44.939 cheesecake, also when I was doing trials for 00:04:44.939 --> 00:04:47.279 restaurants, I always wanted a smaller cheesecake, 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:50.180 but I could never get the cooking right. I was 00:04:50.180 --> 00:04:51.899 always dreaming of like an individual cheesecake 00:04:51.899 --> 00:04:55.160 portion or like to share for two people, but 00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:56.939 I could never get the cooking right because it 00:04:56.939 --> 00:04:58.980 was like either too much or too little. It's 00:04:58.980 --> 00:05:01.240 like super awkward. This size is super nice. 00:05:01.870 --> 00:05:04.490 this has become so popular it's crazy man like 00:05:04.490 --> 00:05:07.930 i think uh two years ago in the new york times 00:05:07.930 --> 00:05:11.089 thanks to marty buckley's book marty buckley 00:05:11.089 --> 00:05:13.670 she's like a food journalist that lives here 00:05:13.670 --> 00:05:16.170 in san sebastian and she's been writing about 00:05:16.170 --> 00:05:19.730 pinchos and bass food for decades her book wasn't 00:05:19.730 --> 00:05:22.509 her book pinchos i think it was that one where 00:05:22.509 --> 00:05:25.750 where the bass cheesecake is featured so it made 00:05:25.750 --> 00:05:27.709 it to the new york times as iconic dessert of 00:05:27.709 --> 00:05:31.269 the year i think two years ago It was already 00:05:31.269 --> 00:05:35.550 insanely popular at the moment back then, but 00:05:35.550 --> 00:05:38.189 now it's insane. I was in Japan and there were 00:05:38.189 --> 00:05:40.949 bus cheesecakes all over the place. They love 00:05:40.949 --> 00:05:44.310 that shit, yeah. It's like exploded. And interestingly 00:05:44.310 --> 00:05:47.290 enough, as you know, this thing is 20 years old, 00:05:47.350 --> 00:05:49.490 not older than that. And that is the most interesting 00:05:49.490 --> 00:05:51.629 thing. I was telling this to a friend of mine 00:05:51.629 --> 00:05:54.449 the other day. We were talking about people's 00:05:54.449 --> 00:05:57.540 perception from the outside. what is traditional 00:05:57.540 --> 00:05:58.980 what's not you know and he was like oh yeah the 00:05:58.980 --> 00:06:00.560 best country amazing because i was telling him 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:02.720 i was going to come here it was like oh so much 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:05.420 like food tradition like this and that best cheesecake 00:06:05.420 --> 00:06:08.100 and i was like ah but you know it's like really 00:06:08.100 --> 00:06:10.860 interesting and how quickly something goes from 00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:13.879 being something new to being so ingrained in 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:15.879 the culture because it makes so much sense it 00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:17.939 fits to the cooking culture yeah i think this 00:06:17.939 --> 00:06:20.180 is already a tradition a very young tradition 00:06:20.180 --> 00:06:24.000 20 years is very very young for a tradition but 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:28.040 i think it already has a That level. So for example, 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:30.980 you say Catalan food. There are some things that 00:06:30.980 --> 00:06:33.000 make Catalan different from the rest of Spain. 00:06:33.180 --> 00:06:35.399 First thing that comes to my mind is maybe pine 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:37.600 nuts. You know, like they will add pine nuts 00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:41.579 to some dishes. And for me, if I see that, I 00:06:41.579 --> 00:06:45.100 know. Or Sicily, you know, you can feel Sicily 00:06:45.100 --> 00:06:48.860 is different from the rest of Italy. Then I would 00:06:48.860 --> 00:06:51.800 think about pine nuts and sardines again. And 00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:54.439 lemon and I don't know, maybe some chilies or 00:06:54.439 --> 00:06:57.509 I don't know. And in Basque food, there are also 00:06:57.509 --> 00:07:00.550 these features that could be what we saw, codfish 00:07:00.550 --> 00:07:04.610 for sure, grilling, the vegetables treatment. 00:07:05.149 --> 00:07:08.050 And all of these things were there, but there 00:07:08.050 --> 00:07:11.970 were not... You had to have some background knowledge 00:07:11.970 --> 00:07:14.370 of what Basque cuisine is to understand that 00:07:14.370 --> 00:07:19.050 that's 100 % Basque. Even though it's not obvious 00:07:19.050 --> 00:07:22.449 or non -traditional for the untrained eye. That's 00:07:22.449 --> 00:07:25.269 true. That's very true, yeah. yeah but like even 00:07:25.269 --> 00:07:27.370 like with the texture of the sauces you know 00:07:27.370 --> 00:07:30.970 it's just like you yeah you find it in like in 00:07:30.970 --> 00:07:33.490 for example chinese cooking you find this like 00:07:33.490 --> 00:07:36.949 gourmet approach to texture and this stickiness 00:07:36.949 --> 00:07:38.629 that we had yesterday in some of the pil pil 00:07:38.629 --> 00:07:41.470 sauces and also taking the concept of a pil pil 00:07:41.470 --> 00:07:46.410 into like a non -traditional thing you know that's 00:07:46.410 --> 00:07:49.470 super super genius and very modern and very new 00:07:49.470 --> 00:07:53.459 like free but for sure 100 best yeah even like 00:07:53.459 --> 00:07:55.180 just i mean this is a technique that comes from 00:07:55.180 --> 00:07:56.839 originally from Mugaritz where they're like okay 00:07:56.839 --> 00:08:00.379 how can we do the take the pilpil technique which 00:08:00.379 --> 00:08:02.860 again if this is the first time you're ever listening 00:08:02.860 --> 00:08:06.240 to us talk about pilpil which is a sauce emulsified 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:09.060 with fish gelatin usually from bacalao or from 00:08:09.060 --> 00:08:11.740 cocochas with like very gelatinous fish and they 00:08:11.740 --> 00:08:14.079 what they did is they made a very neutral stock 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:17.259 out of like salt -caught skins that they then 00:08:17.259 --> 00:08:20.839 reduced to a certain brix to a certain density 00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:23.160 that they can then use to make a pil -pil out 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:25.860 of basically anything, which is genius. And we 00:08:25.860 --> 00:08:30.779 had pepper pil -pil, we had plain cod pil -pil, 00:08:30.779 --> 00:08:33.220 there were different things. Chive pil -pil. 00:08:33.259 --> 00:08:36.399 I think there were dishes that were good, very 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:38.440 good, but there were, for me, three dishes that 00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:41.679 were mind -blowing, and that was for sure the 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:46.200 tip here. Tear peas, sorry. Tear peas. The guisantes 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:48.919 lagrimas, yeah. The tear -shaped peas. Baby peas. 00:08:49.179 --> 00:08:51.559 Which are like caviar, like in this season. It's 00:08:51.559 --> 00:08:53.820 a very short season. They're now in season. We're 00:08:53.820 --> 00:08:56.559 going to try probably today as well and tomorrow 00:08:56.559 --> 00:09:00.220 as well. Let's see. But he said he takes them 00:09:00.220 --> 00:09:02.580 a little bit bigger so they're better for charcoal 00:09:02.580 --> 00:09:05.399 grilling. And they were mixed with normal peas. 00:09:06.139 --> 00:09:09.259 The whole thing binded together with a cod, pil 00:09:09.259 --> 00:09:13.309 -pil. And yeah, as I said, this dish... I see 00:09:13.309 --> 00:09:16.190 pretty clearly the reference to Mugaritz. 100%. 00:09:16.190 --> 00:09:19.870 I don't know if the first version was made by 00:09:19.870 --> 00:09:22.090 Paco Morales, but when I was there, Paco Morales 00:09:22.090 --> 00:09:24.669 did a version that was named Dish of the Year. 00:09:24.789 --> 00:09:27.809 This was back in 2005. And it's in the Chlorophyllia 00:09:27.809 --> 00:09:30.649 book as well. It's one of the classics of Mugaritz. 00:09:30.850 --> 00:09:32.309 Actually, when I worked at Mugaritz, we had a 00:09:32.309 --> 00:09:35.830 dish that was almost like a lineage. You have 00:09:35.830 --> 00:09:37.730 that dish that you're talking about. When I was 00:09:37.730 --> 00:09:39.889 there, we had a dish of Quisantes Lagrimas that 00:09:39.889 --> 00:09:43.080 were raw. And then we juiced peas and we thickened 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:45.080 it with inulina, which gives you this sort of 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:47.240 like almost like Nivea hand cream sort of texture. 00:09:47.460 --> 00:09:50.600 And so it was a very similar presentation. It 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:53.539 was the peas bound together by this gel as like 00:09:53.539 --> 00:09:55.940 a little bowl with garlic flowers on top. Garlic 00:09:55.940 --> 00:09:57.580 flowers on top. I saw the garlic flowers and 00:09:57.580 --> 00:10:00.220 I immediately identified the reference to Mugaritz. 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:03.720 Because we haven't even mentioned that this restaurant 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:05.539 belongs to the same restaurant group as Mugaritz 00:10:05.539 --> 00:10:08.360 and that the head chef was head chef at Mugaritz. 00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:12.009 So it stays. Everything under the same rooftop. 00:10:12.269 --> 00:10:15.690 Yes. That was one. The other one was the tuna 00:10:15.690 --> 00:10:18.809 belly, for sure. Oh, yeah. That was insane. It 00:10:18.809 --> 00:10:20.830 was grilled, right? Very lightly grilled. Grilled 00:10:20.830 --> 00:10:23.450 to perfection. But like pink, almost raw in the 00:10:23.450 --> 00:10:28.009 middle. With roasted peppers and a very strong 00:10:28.009 --> 00:10:33.210 sauce that felt like meat. The essence of the 00:10:33.210 --> 00:10:35.669 red peppers, basically. Again, kind of bound 00:10:35.669 --> 00:10:38.149 together by this pink peel sauce. A pink peel 00:10:38.149 --> 00:10:40.620 with roasted peppers, yeah. like we would do 00:10:40.620 --> 00:10:43.419 this pepper you i'm pretty sure they made it 00:10:43.419 --> 00:10:47.240 with that as a stock yeah which was after you 00:10:47.240 --> 00:10:50.659 roast the peppers until they're charcoal black 00:10:50.659 --> 00:10:53.539 they were put into a big bowl as many as you 00:10:53.539 --> 00:10:56.580 could and then covered with plastic foil like 00:10:56.580 --> 00:10:58.519 three times yeah it has to be three times or 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:01.100 four or two otherwise the recipe doesn't work 00:11:01.100 --> 00:11:03.679 and then you would take the whole a pepper and 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:07.000 open it and it would release this water yes that 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:09.519 would be strained and this is like a very subtle 00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:12.559 water that tastes like roasted peppers we used 00:11:12.559 --> 00:11:15.240 to do the same yeah we used to serve it with 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:18.580 a little like braised veal cheek which was like 00:11:18.580 --> 00:11:22.220 a play on uh on like braised um sort of like 00:11:22.220 --> 00:11:25.200 carreras with like pimiento and it was like so 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:29.679 amazing just like thick sweet umami juice with 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:34.980 the with the meat super super nice And then the 00:11:34.980 --> 00:11:39.200 abanico ibérico. Oh yeah, that was really good 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:42.159 as well. Yeah, that was. So we were trying to 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:45.200 figure out what that cod was. And the actual 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.779 name is abanico. And it's a part of the belly. 00:11:48.059 --> 00:11:50.720 On this side, this is from Joselito. And they 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:53.159 only produce a certain amount a year. And they 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:56.700 reserve it for very special clients, very special 00:11:56.700 --> 00:12:01.620 restaurants. And Muka got like this lot. so they 00:12:01.620 --> 00:12:05.820 they could get just for a specific period a year 00:12:05.820 --> 00:12:09.200 the supply for for this piece of meat for me 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:12.960 it felt like a very fatty flank steak it felt 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:16.019 similar to that it felt braised you know like 00:12:16.019 --> 00:12:20.039 in its own juice lots of wild mushrooms lots 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:24.120 of truffle nothing can go wrong with that absolutely 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:26.200 amazing it was so good but it was also cooked 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:29.889 to perfection yeah Yeah, I couldn't have enough 00:12:29.889 --> 00:12:33.070 of that. I could go back and have like two more 00:12:33.070 --> 00:12:35.850 of the bellies, two more of the... Easily, easily. 00:12:37.269 --> 00:12:39.789 Yeah, desserts were also amazing. I mean, you 00:12:39.789 --> 00:12:41.690 already mentioned the honey with Jerez vinegar 00:12:41.690 --> 00:12:45.830 for the vanilla panna cotta. But also the peach 00:12:45.830 --> 00:12:48.450 ice cream with the... Monastrell vinegar. Monastrell 00:12:48.450 --> 00:12:52.679 vinegar. Lots of vinegars around the different 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:54.740 dishes. Yeah, he mentioned he likes to play around 00:12:54.740 --> 00:12:56.820 with them. But it's so smart. And again, the 00:12:56.820 --> 00:12:59.899 perfect simplicity is you make an ice cream. 00:12:59.919 --> 00:13:02.720 It's very pure. It's very produce -focused. And 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:04.779 then you take another product, a very high -quality 00:13:04.779 --> 00:13:06.659 product, and it just intrinsically makes sense. 00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:08.779 The acidity that cuts through the sweetness, 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:13.039 but also this oxidative raisin flavor from the 00:13:13.039 --> 00:13:17.200 monostral vinegar. It's absolutely perfect. It's 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:19.919 like a good... Vanilla or Fjordelatte ice cream 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:22.480 with exceptionally good balsamic vinegar. You 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:24.879 know, it just makes sense flavor -wise. Nothing 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:27.600 can go wrong with that. Yeah. Really, really 00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:31.480 outstanding dinner and one of the best dining 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:33.700 experiences I've had in the last couple of years. 00:13:33.980 --> 00:13:36.279 Yeah. Yeah, I could agree with that, actually. 00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:40.799 Yeah. Also, for me, it's a very special moment, 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:43.929 company. Also, it was my birthday. They sent 00:13:43.929 --> 00:13:46.409 me a birthday cake. Somebody told them it was 00:13:46.409 --> 00:13:48.330 my birthday. You told them it was your birthday. 00:13:48.529 --> 00:13:53.190 I did. I was like, oh, what a surprise. How did 00:13:53.190 --> 00:14:01.830 you know? Oh, thank you. So what are the things 00:14:01.830 --> 00:14:05.240 now that you're back? here that you have missed 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:07.120 most about San Sebastian and the bus country? 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:09.759 Well, I mean, I miss the countryside for sure. 00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:14.700 It's just such a wild and pure environment. The 00:14:14.700 --> 00:14:17.700 mixture of mountain and ocean is just fucking 00:14:17.700 --> 00:14:20.179 amazing. You know, like people here take it for 00:14:20.179 --> 00:14:22.379 granted. Even if you like step outside of the 00:14:22.379 --> 00:14:24.940 airport in Bilbao, you know, and you take the 00:14:24.940 --> 00:14:28.700 bus to San Sebastian, it's just like forest after 00:14:28.700 --> 00:14:32.690 forest after forest. and you know cider factories 00:14:32.690 --> 00:14:36.710 and this and that and rolling coastlines and 00:14:36.710 --> 00:14:39.970 i mean the city is beautiful like it's not really 00:14:39.970 --> 00:14:42.629 a city is it it's more like a town like a big 00:14:42.629 --> 00:14:45.250 town small city somewhere in between yeah yeah 00:14:45.250 --> 00:14:48.190 yeah but uh it feels just it's just the quality 00:14:48.190 --> 00:14:51.009 of life is just very absolutely the food is great 00:14:51.009 --> 00:14:53.070 the environment is good if you don't mind the 00:14:53.070 --> 00:14:54.889 weather i personally love the weather here the 00:14:54.889 --> 00:14:57.110 fact that it like is kind of a little bit wild 00:14:57.639 --> 00:14:59.700 Like it'll be like this and then suddenly it'll 00:14:59.700 --> 00:15:01.840 start storming and winding. It's just like raw, 00:15:01.980 --> 00:15:04.679 you know, kind of reminds me. I always then have 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:07.519 to think of like the Basque seafaring people 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:09.399 just fucking, you know, going out into the world. 00:15:09.820 --> 00:15:12.559 It's just raw. And I love that about this place. 00:15:12.700 --> 00:15:15.320 Obviously, the food culture is, you know, super 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:18.179 unique. And I mean, we spoke about it yesterday 00:15:18.179 --> 00:15:20.740 already a little bit. It's a food culture that 00:15:20.740 --> 00:15:23.440 has shaped the way that like I cook and what 00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:26.259 I find interesting and what I'm passionate about. 00:15:26.730 --> 00:15:29.250 It's shaped it massively, massively. Same for 00:15:29.250 --> 00:15:32.750 me. Same for me. There are many things of also 00:15:32.750 --> 00:15:35.830 understanding the use of the produce and also 00:15:35.830 --> 00:15:39.529 how to express the produce on a dish. Not necessarily, 00:15:39.830 --> 00:15:41.850 for example, you don't need to roast almonds. 00:15:42.649 --> 00:15:44.789 That's not the only way to put almonds on a dish. 00:15:44.889 --> 00:15:47.230 You can put them fresh or you can put them white. 00:15:47.649 --> 00:15:51.610 I would say if I had to use only one word to 00:15:51.610 --> 00:15:55.029 describe Basque cuisine, I would say subtleness. 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:59.080 you know the salt level is low the the flavors 00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:03.240 are there are just very few elements also the 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:05.980 the texture is very important it's pretty much 00:16:05.980 --> 00:16:08.179 about texture more than flavor in many cases 00:16:08.179 --> 00:16:11.639 and yeah not so much about trying to enhance 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:14.000 everything it's just to yeah letting it be you 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:16.519 know yeah yeah and that that takes a lot of balls 00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:18.559 and it takes a lot of skill that a lot of young 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:20.840 chefs don't have you know it's often like i mean 00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:23.080 even like i sometimes i fall into that trap where 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:25.200 i'm kind of like I'm working on something. I'm 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:26.799 like, oh, maybe this, maybe this herb, maybe 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:28.980 that. Maybe it's kind of like, well, maybe actually 00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:30.600 you should just revisit it and take some stuff 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:33.159 away. But have the things that are there be really, 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:36.379 really good and harmonious. If you had to choose 00:16:36.379 --> 00:16:39.899 one word for Basque cuisine, first thing that 00:16:39.899 --> 00:16:42.980 comes to your mind is one. Pure. Pure. Okay, 00:16:43.059 --> 00:16:46.879 good one. Nice. Yeah, and you? I said solumens. 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:51.379 Yeah. Yeah. I could say the same about high -end 00:16:51.379 --> 00:16:55.009 Japanese cuisine. Yes. Absolutely. It's subtleness. 00:16:55.190 --> 00:16:57.409 And you can see that in the rice, for example. 00:16:57.649 --> 00:17:00.590 Rice appreciation is a subtleness appreciation. 00:17:01.070 --> 00:17:05.349 Oh, yeah. 100%. 100%. It is really valuing a 00:17:05.349 --> 00:17:09.410 product. And the fine tuning. The fine tuning 00:17:09.410 --> 00:17:11.049 is what in French cooking... And that's something 00:17:11.049 --> 00:17:13.630 you don't get the first time. No, no, no. You 00:17:13.630 --> 00:17:18.130 need to get into it and dive into the rice. That's 00:17:18.130 --> 00:17:21.490 what the high -level French chefs call la geste. 00:17:21.789 --> 00:17:25.670 the gesture of how you do it like you know you 00:17:25.670 --> 00:17:27.809 can you can cook rice a million different ways 00:17:27.809 --> 00:17:29.730 but there's this one thing it's kind of like 00:17:29.730 --> 00:17:32.089 how you wash it how you do this how you adjust 00:17:32.089 --> 00:17:35.130 the fire how you how you look at it when you 00:17:35.130 --> 00:17:37.309 pull it off how you fluff it not too much not 00:17:37.309 --> 00:17:40.029 too little of everything just just exactly yeah 00:17:40.029 --> 00:17:42.170 and that's like the difference and that's what 00:17:42.170 --> 00:17:44.789 in like general spanish cooking i see a lot it's 00:17:44.789 --> 00:17:46.509 like you know the example of making a tortilla 00:17:46.509 --> 00:17:51.089 a tortilla is Potatoes, eggs, onions, yes or 00:17:51.089 --> 00:17:53.329 no, you know, whatever, olive oil, salt. That's 00:17:53.329 --> 00:17:55.569 it. Making a tortilla isn't the same as making 00:17:55.569 --> 00:17:57.789 a tortilla. It's not the same as making a tortilla. 00:17:58.049 --> 00:18:00.529 There are tortillas that are so extremely mediocre 00:18:00.529 --> 00:18:03.890 that you wouldn't think about them twice. And 00:18:03.890 --> 00:18:05.869 there are tortillas that are a culinary sensation. 00:18:06.130 --> 00:18:08.089 And it's the same ingredients. The only difference 00:18:08.089 --> 00:18:12.750 really is the gesture, the, you know, the handling. 00:18:14.299 --> 00:18:16.259 And it's interesting, for example, one of the 00:18:16.259 --> 00:18:18.400 best tortillas in town is Bar Antonio's tortilla, 00:18:18.579 --> 00:18:20.599 right? Yes. And there's the original Bar Antonio 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:23.500 that is in City Center and the Boulevard Bar 00:18:23.500 --> 00:18:26.079 Antonio. Okay. And both share the same recipe, 00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:29.519 same owner, same thing. But I think they're both 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:32.119 slightly different. Oh, yeah. I wouldn't say 00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:33.980 better or worse. They're just different. And 00:18:33.980 --> 00:18:35.440 it's because of that, the gesture. Of course. 00:18:35.500 --> 00:18:38.279 You know, like the little details that get into 00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:41.779 the recipe of... It's everything. There are so 00:18:41.779 --> 00:18:45.339 many variants. I remember Eckart Witzigmann once 00:18:45.339 --> 00:18:48.720 saying that it's impossible to make a food algorithm. 00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:51.240 And he said this many years ago. This man is 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:54.859 like 90 years old today. Because there are so 00:18:54.859 --> 00:18:58.799 infinite variables. Yes. Or, for example, creating 00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:02.420 a particular recipe, let's say, for a jus. Or 00:19:02.420 --> 00:19:04.500 something like that. There are so many variables 00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:07.319 in terms of the produce, in terms of the equipment 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:10.349 you're using. And everything determines how it 00:19:10.349 --> 00:19:14.230 will end. And that's where the chef intuition 00:19:14.230 --> 00:19:17.509 comes into play. 100%. I've always said this. 00:19:17.589 --> 00:19:20.589 A lot of inexperienced chefs that, for example, 00:19:20.589 --> 00:19:23.829 come to work with me, they go a little bit nuts 00:19:23.829 --> 00:19:25.130 in the beginning. Because they're like, hey, 00:19:25.150 --> 00:19:27.230 can I have a recipe for this? And I'm like, not 00:19:27.230 --> 00:19:29.430 really. I can show you. And I will show you. 00:19:29.569 --> 00:19:31.369 There's not really a recipe. And they're like, 00:19:31.410 --> 00:19:33.170 oh, how can there not be a recipe? And I'm like, 00:19:33.210 --> 00:19:36.190 well, you obviously don't get it. There's things 00:19:36.190 --> 00:19:38.440 that you can have a recipe for. But there's some 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:40.660 things that you, to make it how it should be, 00:19:40.779 --> 00:19:43.279 don't follow a recipe blindly because it's never 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:45.240 going to be that. How would you define intuition? 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:49.059 What's intuition for you? It's a mixture of experience 00:19:49.059 --> 00:19:54.359 and lived passion for something. That's very 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:56.900 interesting because I've thought about this a 00:19:56.900 --> 00:19:59.720 lot and I've actually had discussions, deep discussions 00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:03.240 with Sandra about the topic. For example... i'm 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:05.559 talking right now right i'm formulating sentences 00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:09.039 that make somehow sense so that's already intuition 00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:12.160 into play you know like i'm not thinking about 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:14.220 what i'm going to say i'm just saying things 00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:17.660 right like and there's like a but yet again there's 00:20:17.660 --> 00:20:20.980 like a whole intellect behind it that is feeding 00:20:20.980 --> 00:20:24.680 that intuition and allows me to formulate and 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:27.000 then cooking i guess is the same thing you know 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:30.630 you have You have to accumulate intellect, understand 00:20:30.630 --> 00:20:36.150 things like theories about techniques and have 00:20:36.150 --> 00:20:39.250 like a whole book of recipes in your head and 00:20:39.250 --> 00:20:42.390 understand how different processes work and all 00:20:42.390 --> 00:20:46.309 of these in order for you to culinarily speak. 00:20:46.750 --> 00:20:49.829 you know like just flow yeah and absolutely freestyle 00:20:49.829 --> 00:20:52.609 absolutely but at the same time you have to you 00:20:52.609 --> 00:20:54.549 know when we say that cooking is emotional you 00:20:54.549 --> 00:20:56.930 know we don't mean like oh i cook this it reminds 00:20:56.930 --> 00:20:59.809 you of your grandma like blah blah blah of course 00:20:59.809 --> 00:21:01.809 that's that can also be a part but like what 00:21:01.809 --> 00:21:04.130 i feel like it is is that when you're making 00:21:04.130 --> 00:21:06.869 something as what i just said it's like there's 00:21:06.869 --> 00:21:08.730 a huge difference you can make two people can 00:21:08.730 --> 00:21:11.250 make the same thing one person just does it the 00:21:11.250 --> 00:21:13.759 other person really puts themselves into it and 00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:16.440 there's no limit to how much love and care and 00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:18.759 attention you can give to something of looking 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:21.599 at all the fine details of you know just trying 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:25.680 to coax out you know this like golden center 00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:27.819 of things you know of everything of all these 00:21:27.819 --> 00:21:31.099 variables you know it's like juggling five watermelons 00:21:31.099 --> 00:21:33.819 and three knives you know in a way and sometimes 00:21:33.819 --> 00:21:35.319 you catch them all sometimes you don't but when 00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:37.440 you do catch them all and when you everything 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.539 all the planets align then you have something 00:21:39.539 --> 00:21:42.890 sensational And I think that's this like passionate, 00:21:43.450 --> 00:21:47.890 you know, living something, really living it, 00:21:47.910 --> 00:21:50.049 really filling it out. Paired with the intellect, 00:21:50.210 --> 00:21:52.329 like for me, that's what intuition and cooking 00:21:52.329 --> 00:21:56.930 is. I saw this interview with Alchemist. He traveled 00:21:56.930 --> 00:21:59.730 to Argentina. The interview was not with him, 00:21:59.769 --> 00:22:03.680 was with a record store owner. he was djing for 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:06.920 Eminem when he went to Argentina to on his tour 00:22:06.920 --> 00:22:12.099 and the man went into the record store and he 00:22:12.099 --> 00:22:14.920 said give me all the local music you have and 00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:17.559 the man was there like for 12 hours just next 00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:22.400 record and he bought some records and he sampled 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:26.119 some Argentinian rock bands that were there just 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:29.660 there and no Argentinian hip -hop producer had 00:22:29.660 --> 00:22:32.279 ever touched And he said something like, my job 00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:36.160 is to recognize magic when I have it in front 00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:40.039 of me. And that for me speaks very much about 00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:44.420 an experienced chef when he recognizes this fine 00:22:44.420 --> 00:22:48.359 tuning of this specific flavor, texture, or even 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:52.059 storytelling or whatever that makes a dish extraordinary, 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.200 like recognizing this, while others could just... 00:22:55.390 --> 00:22:58.869 oversee it and just continue the way. Yeah. That's 00:22:58.869 --> 00:23:05.150 what makes something magic. Absolutely. That's 00:23:05.150 --> 00:23:07.910 it for this week's episode of Potluck Food Talks. 00:23:07.910 --> 00:23:10.289 If you like what we're doing, make sure to subscribe 00:23:10.289 --> 00:23:12.529 to the podcast so you never miss an episode. 00:23:12.849 --> 00:23:14.990 You can also find us on Instagram and TikTok 00:23:14.990 --> 00:23:18.490 as Potluck Food Talks. The show airs every Monday.