WEBVTT 00:00:04.110 --> 00:00:07.910 Hi, everyone. Welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks. Eric, 00:00:08.050 --> 00:00:11.369 before we start, please, you have to tell me, 00:00:11.410 --> 00:00:14.109 where did you get this hat? My hat? It looks 00:00:14.109 --> 00:00:20.750 amazing. That is a very natural question. Yes. 00:00:22.589 --> 00:00:24.929 I've been wondering this entire time. The entire 00:00:24.929 --> 00:00:27.170 time Alexander's been setting up the mics, I've 00:00:27.170 --> 00:00:30.079 been looking at you in wonder. asking myself, 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:33.299 where can I get a hat like that? Well, I got 00:00:33.299 --> 00:00:37.479 it on my recent trip to Japan. And so the second 00:00:37.479 --> 00:00:40.659 day I arrived at Japan, we went to Shimokitazawa. 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:43.759 Have you been there? No. So it is like neighborhood, 00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:45.840 like a super nice neighborhood you should go. 00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:50.179 And there are a lot of like vintage stores. Also, 00:00:50.299 --> 00:00:53.399 the neighborhood is pretty nice in itself. So 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:56.700 we went there for a walk and to visit my friend 00:00:56.700 --> 00:01:00.210 Barry, who lives there. He cooked lunch for us, 00:01:00.229 --> 00:01:03.270 like an amazing, I would define very like a semi 00:01:03.270 --> 00:01:05.409 -professional home cook. You know, he has like 00:01:05.409 --> 00:01:07.829 a sous vide device. He has like this super pro 00:01:07.829 --> 00:01:12.349 Japanese cast iron pot rice cooker. Oh, nice. 00:01:12.349 --> 00:01:17.230 It was like a tuna wrapped in kombu and sake, 00:01:17.430 --> 00:01:20.950 you know, like super nice. If it was lunch, I 00:01:20.950 --> 00:01:22.829 would define it as a Japanese breakfast with 00:01:22.829 --> 00:01:27.189 boiled rice and poached eggs. and the sashimi 00:01:27.189 --> 00:01:29.349 and all this sort of stuff. Anyways, after lunch, 00:01:29.469 --> 00:01:31.709 we went walking around in the neighborhood, and 00:01:31.709 --> 00:01:34.489 he brought us to this vintage store where I saw 00:01:34.489 --> 00:01:37.310 this cap. And I saw it, and it was like, oh, 00:01:37.370 --> 00:01:39.909 this looks pretty cool, you know? So I scanned 00:01:39.909 --> 00:01:44.409 the letter, the kanji that has, and Google Translate 00:01:44.409 --> 00:01:47.670 translated as soup. So it said soup, and I was 00:01:47.670 --> 00:01:51.819 like, man, soup. It's amazing, yeah. For good 00:01:51.819 --> 00:01:55.500 or bad, when I'm traveling, I avoid consumerism 00:01:55.500 --> 00:01:58.280 like overly, you know, especially in Japan. I 00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:00.480 mean, I had to buy an extra luggage, which is 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:02.439 what a lot of people have to do when they go 00:02:02.439 --> 00:02:04.739 to Japan for the first time. In my case, it's 00:02:04.739 --> 00:02:07.340 because I broke the small one. So I had to buy 00:02:07.340 --> 00:02:10.219 a new one. So I bought like a huge one. And even 00:02:10.219 --> 00:02:14.080 though I had overweight, you know, because it's 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:16.500 so, I mean, buying, for example, ceramics in 00:02:16.500 --> 00:02:18.539 Kyoto, that shit is like crack cocaine, man. 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:21.900 You never have enough of it. Tokyo was my departure 00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:24.879 point and I would also leave Japan from Tokyo. 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:27.520 So I traveled around and went back to Tokyo when 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:30.259 I was for the second time in Tokyo. So I had 00:02:30.259 --> 00:02:33.599 just like two days left. I was like, the cap, 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:36.340 the soup cap. I have to go back to that vintage 00:02:36.340 --> 00:02:41.039 store. So I went back there. I was determined 00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:43.460 to buy it, you know, because... it was not cheap 00:02:43.460 --> 00:02:46.039 also not expensive like 40 euros you know like 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:48.800 and i was like okay let's let's get it it doesn't 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:51.319 matter so i go back i scan it again with google 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:54.780 translate and it says hot water and i'm like 00:02:54.780 --> 00:02:59.819 no i'm not saying ah this is not as cool as soup 00:02:59.819 --> 00:03:04.990 but i love it anyway you know Because, you know, 00:03:05.050 --> 00:03:07.830 kanjis are not letters as we understand them. 00:03:07.930 --> 00:03:10.289 They're not like pieces of sounds that you build 00:03:10.289 --> 00:03:12.509 together. They're like concepts, right? So hot 00:03:12.509 --> 00:03:15.110 water and soup is kind of like... Same concept, 00:03:15.310 --> 00:03:18.449 yeah. Exactly. So I was like, okay, let's take 00:03:18.449 --> 00:03:21.930 it. So I go to the counter and the two ladies 00:03:21.930 --> 00:03:25.490 there, they were like, you know, like Japanese 00:03:25.490 --> 00:03:29.189 laughs. And I was like, okay, well, what does 00:03:29.189 --> 00:03:34.139 it say? And they said, ah! I don't know. So I 00:03:34.139 --> 00:03:36.419 take my Google Translate so I could record them 00:03:36.419 --> 00:03:38.599 and translate. And I look at it and it said, 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:46.439 public bath. And I was like, ah, you know, same 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:51.520 concept, hot water, you know. It was this, I'll 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:54.020 take it. Referring to a public bath as a soup 00:03:54.020 --> 00:03:56.680 is really cursed. It's a really cursed idea. 00:03:57.060 --> 00:03:59.219 Yeah, and that's the story of it. Then I saw 00:03:59.219 --> 00:04:01.819 that there are some YouTube channels where they 00:04:01.819 --> 00:04:04.080 show people that have ridiculous stuff written 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:07.139 in kanjis. And they don't know tattoos or t -shirts 00:04:07.139 --> 00:04:10.900 or stuff like that. Yeah, that's all about it. 00:04:11.060 --> 00:04:13.719 That's nice. I'd rock a hat saying I owe one 00:04:13.719 --> 00:04:17.920 of those. Soup or public bath. I'd be fine with 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:23.300 that, honestly. So here we are. What's happening? 00:04:25.500 --> 00:04:29.310 Well, I wanted to prove you that... um everything 00:04:29.310 --> 00:04:33.829 you eat in san sebastian is at least good yeah 00:04:33.829 --> 00:04:39.389 i mean i think that's wrong like okay like it's 00:04:39.389 --> 00:04:43.029 not it depends how you define good right i'm 00:04:43.029 --> 00:04:45.290 sure there's places where it's easier to eat 00:04:45.290 --> 00:04:48.170 something that's really inedible but there are 00:04:48.170 --> 00:04:51.149 like a fair few places that i've been to to get 00:04:51.149 --> 00:04:54.110 like a and it's like like it's edible but it's 00:04:54.110 --> 00:04:56.269 not great you know like it's really not great 00:04:56.680 --> 00:05:01.360 no no i didn't say great i said at least good 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:04.420 you know yeah please okay meaning good that's 00:05:04.420 --> 00:05:08.899 not bad you know like or a little bit more than 00:05:08.899 --> 00:05:11.240 not bad you know i mean i suppose for example 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:13.439 barcelona i've always said that barcelona can 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:15.800 be the city where you have like the best restaurants 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:19.959 maybe in the world or in spain madrid san sebastian 00:05:19.959 --> 00:05:23.329 barcelona But the difference is that in Barcelona, 00:05:23.430 --> 00:05:25.629 you also find the worst places in the world. 00:05:25.790 --> 00:05:29.569 You know, like, you can get, like, crappy tourist 00:05:29.569 --> 00:05:34.629 traps with unedible junk for a lot of money and 00:05:34.629 --> 00:05:38.370 easy, like, super easy. Walk into a random place 00:05:38.370 --> 00:05:41.050 in El Raval, sorry, not El Raval, in Las Ramblas, 00:05:41.110 --> 00:05:43.910 and you'll find that, you know? Walk to a random 00:05:43.910 --> 00:05:46.649 place in San Sebastian, in City Center, Old Town, 00:05:46.790 --> 00:05:50.610 or Gross, and you'll have at least good... Or 00:05:50.610 --> 00:05:53.129 it could be super good, excellent, and mind -blowing. 00:05:53.350 --> 00:05:55.709 So you could find that, you know? Okay, fair 00:05:55.709 --> 00:05:58.189 enough. Alexander was telling me yesterday about 00:05:58.189 --> 00:05:59.889 this thing that I think you guys spoke about, 00:06:00.009 --> 00:06:03.930 that apparently Basque people think that this 00:06:03.930 --> 00:06:06.970 whole hype about Basque food is like a sort of 00:06:06.970 --> 00:06:08.670 political thing that's not actually that good. 00:06:08.889 --> 00:06:13.709 I mean, of course, that's not like a general 00:06:13.709 --> 00:06:17.389 view. But I've known people, I've talked to people, 00:06:17.589 --> 00:06:20.759 like friends that are... In some cases, not even 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:23.759 from San Sebastian, from villages around. And 00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:26.560 because they know that I work at Basque Culinary 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:28.300 Center and I have this whole background with 00:06:28.300 --> 00:06:31.360 food and everything, they asked me, like, this 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:33.439 whole thing about San Sebastian being a food 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:36.740 capital, is that true? Like, is Arzak really 00:06:36.740 --> 00:06:40.120 someone worldwide? And I'm like, yes, he is. 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:43.519 Yeah, he's like a legend, like a living legend, 00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:47.110 you know? It's not like some hype that was built 00:06:47.110 --> 00:06:50.649 around him for locals. That's what they're asking 00:06:50.649 --> 00:06:53.170 me, you know? And I say, oh, yeah, yeah. Like, 00:06:53.170 --> 00:06:56.329 I went to Chefsaff in Düsseldorf, this chef conference 00:06:56.329 --> 00:06:58.930 in Düsseldorf in Germany. Elena was speaking, 00:06:59.050 --> 00:07:02.990 and they showed a picture of the old man, of 00:07:02.990 --> 00:07:05.730 von Maria Sack. And there was like a two -minute 00:07:05.730 --> 00:07:08.529 standing ovation, you know, for just showing 00:07:08.529 --> 00:07:11.370 a picture of the man in Germany. So that really 00:07:11.370 --> 00:07:15.350 proves that he is a legend. But going back to 00:07:15.350 --> 00:07:19.189 this topic, for example, there's this new building 00:07:19.189 --> 00:07:21.649 from Basque Culinary Center that is being built, 00:07:21.709 --> 00:07:24.509 and there's a lot of opposition from the neighbors. 00:07:24.730 --> 00:07:27.610 But that's also something very common if you 00:07:27.610 --> 00:07:30.759 go back in the history of this city. Grumpiness 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:33.339 and opposition. Yeah. For example, I don't know 00:07:33.339 --> 00:07:35.759 if you know, but the whole beach of Gross, Suriola 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:38.100 Beach, that's an artificial beach. Like if you 00:07:38.100 --> 00:07:41.279 see pictures from the mid -90s, there was like 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:43.660 a wall in the middle of the beach and there was 00:07:43.660 --> 00:07:46.879 no beach as we understand it today. There was 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:50.199 no Cursal. There was no... Many of these things 00:07:50.199 --> 00:07:52.879 were built just in the late 90s. And now you 00:07:52.879 --> 00:07:55.019 have that beautiful beach where everybody was 00:07:55.019 --> 00:07:57.939 around and everybody enjoys it. There was a lot 00:07:57.939 --> 00:08:00.079 of opposition to that building. A lot of people 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:02.980 didn't want it to be built, thought it was a 00:08:02.980 --> 00:08:07.279 mistake and so on. So with this new building, 00:08:07.379 --> 00:08:09.740 they're saying like, oh, this is like, how much 00:08:09.740 --> 00:08:12.279 to gastronomy? We've had enough of it. Where 00:08:12.279 --> 00:08:15.100 are our dogs going to pee now? You know, like, 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:20.639 I'm serious. That's crazy. Or so they had to 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:23.180 cut like two trees to make the building. And 00:08:23.180 --> 00:08:25.519 it was like, what's going to happen with our 00:08:25.519 --> 00:08:30.759 biodiversity? Of course. There's so little biodiversity 00:08:30.759 --> 00:08:33.860 in the Basque Country. And I mean, of course, 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:37.799 I respect everybody, especially people, especially 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:39.840 locals that grew up here and they have their 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:42.799 own vision. I know very few people outside of 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:44.879 Basque Culinary Center that are enthusiastic 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:48.460 about it now that it's still a project. In any 00:08:48.460 --> 00:08:51.139 case, what I want to prove is that there's this 00:08:51.139 --> 00:08:53.860 whole thing about it has been enough with this 00:08:53.860 --> 00:08:57.289 food thing, you know, like I've seen. At the 00:08:57.289 --> 00:09:00.710 same time, people are not seeing the value of 00:09:00.710 --> 00:09:05.190 it because they take it for granted. Good food 00:09:05.190 --> 00:09:07.629 is taken for granted around here because of that 00:09:07.629 --> 00:09:09.970 reason. Because it's good, because you've always 00:09:09.970 --> 00:09:13.230 known. If you grow up here, you've known good 00:09:13.230 --> 00:09:19.230 food as a standard. So something a little less 00:09:19.230 --> 00:09:23.289 than good is crap. It's unedible crap. So the 00:09:23.289 --> 00:09:26.759 standards are very high here around food. Yet 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:30.220 at the same time, I think there's a generational 00:09:30.220 --> 00:09:35.320 shift problem. Young Basque, it's not as it was 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:38.519 in the 90s or the 2000s where there was a large 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:44.379 amount of young people becoming hospitality and 00:09:44.379 --> 00:09:46.799 astronomy professionals. Now that's not the case 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:49.659 anymore. So what happens? That slot has been 00:09:49.659 --> 00:09:52.139 taken by foreigners, mostly Latin Americans. 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:56.679 So you get to see here most or a lot. of traditional 00:09:56.679 --> 00:10:00.019 Basque restaurants are run by Latin Americans 00:10:00.019 --> 00:10:01.919 who preserve the tradition, of course. They're 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:05.240 cooking in the traditional style. But yeah, it's 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:08.000 a quite common thing. But also, interestingly 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:11.779 enough, in many places, well, not in many places, 00:10:11.779 --> 00:10:16.139 you will see a lot of traffic of Japanese travelers. 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:19.840 And that's brilliant. They even have their own 00:10:19.840 --> 00:10:23.669 city guide in Japanese. And they walk into places 00:10:23.669 --> 00:10:26.009 with their guide, for example, to Casa Urola 00:10:26.009 --> 00:10:28.070 with the scallop, just showing the picture of 00:10:28.070 --> 00:10:31.750 the scallop. I bet they love that at Casa Urola, 00:10:31.870 --> 00:10:33.929 yeah. Yeah, because I didn't know this. There 00:10:33.929 --> 00:10:37.049 is like a... It's not the official name, but 00:10:37.049 --> 00:10:40.429 people call it the Food Disneyland. It's a theme 00:10:40.429 --> 00:10:43.610 park in Japan where they have replicas of restaurants 00:10:43.610 --> 00:10:45.230 from all over the world, and they have a replica 00:10:45.230 --> 00:10:48.429 of Casa Urola. No way. Yeah, so they're coming 00:10:48.429 --> 00:10:52.049 to the original place. Crazy. That's so Japanese, 00:10:52.269 --> 00:10:55.750 you know? Yeah, that's super Japanese. But I 00:10:55.750 --> 00:10:58.649 think what's interesting is obviously the Basque 00:10:58.649 --> 00:11:02.129 Country is a very rich region in Spain. It's 00:11:02.129 --> 00:11:06.009 very rich in resources, etc. Apart from the fact 00:11:06.009 --> 00:11:08.149 that it's a shame that people don't see the value 00:11:08.149 --> 00:11:11.690 in food because it's a huge tourism draw. It 00:11:11.690 --> 00:11:14.070 brings a lot of money to the country also. People 00:11:14.070 --> 00:11:16.129 can hate on tourists as much as they want, but 00:11:16.129 --> 00:11:19.470 it brings a lot of capital and keeps the standard 00:11:19.470 --> 00:11:25.039 of life up. But what's interesting is now being 00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:27.440 here in the Basque Country and wanting to look 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:31.659 at real high -level Basque cooking and what that 00:11:31.659 --> 00:11:34.340 means. It's sort of like what makes the cuisine 00:11:34.340 --> 00:11:37.620 so interesting to people and so fascinating. 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:40.019 Because I know when I first came to the Basque 00:11:40.019 --> 00:11:41.220 Country, I didn't really know what to expect. 00:11:41.320 --> 00:11:43.299 I came here for Mugaritz, to work specifically 00:11:43.299 --> 00:11:47.159 at Mugaritz. And being here in the Basque Country 00:11:47.159 --> 00:11:50.230 for that year... really changed my trajectory 00:11:50.230 --> 00:11:52.929 as a chef i was like heading one way and then 00:11:52.929 --> 00:11:56.210 i came here and i went to asadores and sidrerias 00:11:56.210 --> 00:11:59.190 and stuff like that and it really changed where 00:11:59.190 --> 00:12:02.429 i was heading for me like two things that made 00:12:02.429 --> 00:12:05.169 me fell in love with the city back then when 00:12:05.169 --> 00:12:09.750 i also went to mucaris i was 19 years old And 00:12:09.750 --> 00:12:13.509 it was both cider houses and pincho bars. You 00:12:13.509 --> 00:12:16.009 know, like this pincho bar crawling. I was like, 00:12:16.070 --> 00:12:18.710 this is fucking Disneyland. You know, this is 00:12:18.710 --> 00:12:22.210 food Disneyland. And a cider house is also such 00:12:22.210 --> 00:12:24.190 an amazing experience. It's a magical thing. 00:12:24.490 --> 00:12:27.850 I mean, you have like way more knowledge about 00:12:27.850 --> 00:12:31.049 the Basque country. Now you've lived here a couple 00:12:31.049 --> 00:12:33.409 of times and you've come for visits and everything. 00:12:33.769 --> 00:12:38.820 So what is for you Basque cooking about? Like 00:12:38.820 --> 00:12:45.460 what are the key features of it? For me, it's 00:12:45.460 --> 00:12:51.720 like super, super focused on the produce, on 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:56.740 the product with like minimal kind of like intervention. 00:12:57.019 --> 00:13:00.460 It's like very puristic and often with the element 00:13:00.460 --> 00:13:04.620 is very seasonal and often with the element of 00:13:04.620 --> 00:13:09.360 charcoal and fire. grill like very subtly and 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:16.059 it has this like very it gives it this like almost 00:13:16.059 --> 00:13:20.080 primal sort of like mystical feel to it like 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:22.080 take like so this example you have like guisantes 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:25.139 lagrima they're like teardrop peas it's a super 00:13:25.139 --> 00:13:27.779 seasonal super high quality product cooked over 00:13:27.779 --> 00:13:31.519 charcoal gives it like this like little they're 00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:33.539 now in season by the way yeah we're going to 00:13:33.539 --> 00:13:36.740 get those probably on sunday i i hope so man 00:13:36.740 --> 00:13:39.919 they're fucking insane like it's um absolutely 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:42.039 incredible because the best countries like we 00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:43.519 were talking about yesterday it's like a it's 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:45.220 like garden of eden almost it's like fucking 00:13:45.220 --> 00:13:47.799 paradise like the stuff they have here the mixture 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:53.580 of like sea and land is unparalleled and then 00:13:53.580 --> 00:13:57.139 this approach of kind of like very minimal cooking 00:13:57.139 --> 00:13:59.500 preserving the essence the natural essence you 00:13:59.500 --> 00:14:02.460 know it's it's the it's like the holy trinity 00:14:02.460 --> 00:14:05.799 of cooking The story of how it developed, as 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:09.039 I understand it, I need to research more and 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:12.440 learn more, but things that I know. If I go back 00:14:12.440 --> 00:14:15.960 the earliest I can, I once met a guy. He told 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:20.200 me, oh, my grandfather was a food critic. And 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:22.320 I said, ah, from the new Basque cuisine generation. 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:25.159 And he was like, no, earlier. And I was like, 00:14:25.179 --> 00:14:28.639 oh, really? So this guy sent me pictures of one 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:32.220 of the food guides that his grandfather wrote. 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:34.559 And this was so interesting because there were 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:36.799 like, you know, like a food guide where you can 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:40.360 eat this there and that over there from the 60s, 00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:43.919 you know. And there were things like, there's 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:48.360 a very good mushroom soup at the drugstore in 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:51.480 Old Town. So there was already a culture of going 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:53.879 around from one place to another and knowing 00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:56.120 that there is someone who does something really 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:58.460 good over there. So there was already like a 00:14:58.460 --> 00:15:02.559 very, very strong food culture. We already talked 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:05.059 about Nouvelle Cuisine in the Nouvelle Cuisine 00:15:05.059 --> 00:15:10.600 episode. Back then, also, you had this culture 00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:14.419 in bars, but if you went to a white tablecloth 00:15:14.419 --> 00:15:17.779 restaurant, like a proper high -end fine dining 00:15:17.779 --> 00:15:21.360 restaurant, it was 100 % French. All of the restaurants 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:24.720 were French here, with French fancy names and 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:28.019 these kind of things. So what happened after... 00:15:28.779 --> 00:15:31.519 Franco died in the mid -70s. There was this renaissance 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:34.720 of it was okay to feel Basque again. It was okay 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:37.639 to feel Catalan again. This was a period known 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:41.080 in the arts as the destape, which means taking 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:44.179 the lid out. So in the cinema, Almodovar, all 00:15:44.179 --> 00:15:46.600 of these kind of things happened. There was like 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:49.899 this zeitgeist, you know? And in that context, 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:53.159 a group of 14 chefs, even though that Anthony 00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:55.659 Bourdain in his episode, he calls them the 12 00:15:55.659 --> 00:15:59.120 original apostles. There were 14, not 12, but 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:01.679 it's cooler to call them the 12 apostles. We'll 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:05.580 forgive them. And they wrote a manifesto. A manifesto 00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:08.019 that inspired the new Nordic manifesto and many 00:16:08.019 --> 00:16:09.799 other things. But this was way too early. This 00:16:09.799 --> 00:16:14.000 was like mid -70s and they were determining to... 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:16.740 Basically, the manifestos said, let's not be 00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:21.529 French. Let's be Basque and celebrate. Or like 00:16:21.529 --> 00:16:23.929 that mushroom soup from the drugstore, let's 00:16:23.929 --> 00:16:26.269 transform it into something that we can put into 00:16:26.269 --> 00:16:28.970 an amazing high -end restaurant and the proper 00:16:28.970 --> 00:16:31.110 setting for it. You know, which was the main 00:16:31.110 --> 00:16:33.769 difference between the history that happened 00:16:33.769 --> 00:16:35.990 here and what happened in Copenhagen. In Copenhagen, 00:16:36.049 --> 00:16:38.830 they had sausages and potatoes. That's what they 00:16:38.830 --> 00:16:41.009 had. So they couldn't, it was very difficult 00:16:41.009 --> 00:16:43.649 to elevate that. So they just opened the canvas 00:16:43.649 --> 00:16:47.980 to a wine canvas and just explore. out of scratch 00:16:47.980 --> 00:16:51.259 and create like a new cuisine out of scratch. 00:16:51.419 --> 00:16:53.700 In this case, it was creating a new cuisine out 00:16:53.700 --> 00:16:57.700 of grandmothers and tradition, right? And that's 00:16:57.700 --> 00:16:59.620 amazing because many of these high -end restaurants, 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:02.139 they develop dishes that became standards that 00:17:02.139 --> 00:17:04.440 now you see also in pincho bars that people cook 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:07.819 at home and the wheel goes on and on and on. 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:09.980 Like people here, they cook Basque cooking at 00:17:09.980 --> 00:17:12.700 home. They go to Basque restaurants for restaurants 00:17:12.700 --> 00:17:15.299 and they also have this. gastronomic societies, 00:17:15.299 --> 00:17:17.799 these supper clubs where they go there and cook 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:20.500 Basque food, you know? Which is incredible. Yeah. 00:17:20.619 --> 00:17:23.119 It's very, very different from, let's say, for 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:27.259 example, America, the United States, for example. 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:31.259 They're becoming a chef means pretty much understanding 00:17:31.259 --> 00:17:35.059 external traditions. Like, let's learn how the 00:17:35.059 --> 00:17:38.299 French or the Italians or the Spanish or the 00:17:38.299 --> 00:17:41.500 Japanese cook. Yeah. While here, people are pretty 00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:44.059 much... of course they know they learn about 00:17:44.059 --> 00:17:47.380 everything but it's pretty much alive this statement 00:17:47.380 --> 00:17:51.480 of think global act local yeah for sure like 00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:54.160 it makes absolute sense right you have this it's 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:57.259 really really cool one it's it's such a brave 00:17:57.259 --> 00:18:00.019 sort of like movement also you know of kind of 00:18:00.019 --> 00:18:04.640 like reconquering and reabsorbing your own culture 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:07.970 that was like for such a long time Forbidden 00:18:07.970 --> 00:18:10.150 and pushed away from you, you know, and I mean 00:18:10.150 --> 00:18:11.670 if you look at it If you look at that and you 00:18:11.670 --> 00:18:13.450 look at it now, you know where past has been 00:18:13.450 --> 00:18:16.130 taught in school, you know and stuff like that 00:18:16.130 --> 00:18:19.650 It's it's crazy. What a huge push over like what 00:18:19.650 --> 00:18:22.269 two three generations they've done, you know, 00:18:22.269 --> 00:18:26.049 and how what an effect that had Okay, nice that 00:18:26.049 --> 00:18:28.089 you bring that up But it because I'm sure a lot 00:18:28.089 --> 00:18:30.190 of our people in the audience don't even know 00:18:30.190 --> 00:18:33.569 about what the bus country is You know like so 00:18:33.569 --> 00:18:37.059 like first of all Basque language is the oldest 00:18:37.059 --> 00:18:40.359 spoken language in Europe. It predates Latin, 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:43.640 you know, like... Which is insane. That means 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:46.319 that, like, logically it has no Latin roots, 00:18:46.380 --> 00:18:48.759 but no trackable roots from any other language, 00:18:48.819 --> 00:18:53.339 no Indo -European, Germanic, whatever, you name 00:18:53.339 --> 00:18:58.119 it, it's not that. So there is no conclusive 00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:04.920 theory about where it originated. But it's believed 00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:09.200 to have originated somewhere between 5 ,000 and 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:13.559 15 ,000 years ago. So that means Basque people 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:16.559 predate Romans. They have been here for a while. 00:19:16.779 --> 00:19:20.000 And that's also probably the reason. So it's 00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.119 a culture of, I would say, shepherds and sailors, 00:19:24.380 --> 00:19:30.519 right? And so that's like the melting pot that 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:35.960 created... the cuisine that exists here. No, 00:19:35.980 --> 00:19:37.920 but the interesting thing is, and you can really 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:42.259 see the aftermath. There is also a French part. 00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:47.099 So as I said, Basque predate the Romans. So they've 00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:49.799 been here in the region and then something called 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:51.740 Spain was created and something called France 00:19:51.740 --> 00:19:53.720 was created and the Basque country stayed in 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:55.339 the middle. So that means that there is like 00:19:55.339 --> 00:19:58.079 a part of the Basque country, what is known as 00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:00.839 Euskal Herria, which is a Basque territory. that 00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:04.259 is part of France and if you go there they speak 00:20:04.259 --> 00:20:08.880 Basque with French accent and there are very 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:11.819 clear similarities in the architecture and the 00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:15.180 type fonts and a lot of things but the food is 00:20:15.180 --> 00:20:19.839 very different and I'm pretty sure that the food 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:22.720 became very different after or more different 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:26.500 than it already was after the new Basque cuisine 00:20:26.500 --> 00:20:30.750 where they said like Let's use olive oil instead 00:20:30.750 --> 00:20:34.549 of butter. Instead of looking how to do a blah, 00:20:34.609 --> 00:20:38.470 blah, blah, let's look in other regions of Spain 00:20:38.470 --> 00:20:43.890 how to, I don't know, incorporate like a gazpacho 00:20:43.890 --> 00:20:47.569 or even like the tomato salad. That is something 00:20:47.569 --> 00:20:51.349 that has become a standard in summer. It's like 00:20:51.349 --> 00:20:54.970 one of the iconic things that you will find in 00:20:54.970 --> 00:20:57.569 San Sebastian. That's something relatively modern. 00:20:58.319 --> 00:20:59.920 You know, like it's something that like in the 00:20:59.920 --> 00:21:03.880 80s, you would only find tomato cooked into sauces 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:07.319 in the dishes around here. Now, this is something 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:09.099 that was incorporated probably from the south 00:21:09.099 --> 00:21:11.539 of Spain or from Spaniards that came here and 00:21:11.539 --> 00:21:13.519 opened their restaurants. There's an article 00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:17.220 about this, Talk to the Walla at Barnestor, where 00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:19.900 he says raw tomatoes, that was something from 00:21:19.900 --> 00:21:22.339 the Spaniards. Because that's also something 00:21:22.339 --> 00:21:24.819 people here, they don't feel Spanish. They feel 00:21:24.819 --> 00:21:27.990 Basque. Yeah. It is a big difference. I mean, 00:21:28.009 --> 00:21:30.269 you know, like from people to the outside, it's 00:21:30.269 --> 00:21:32.970 easy to kind of like put it all in one thing. 00:21:33.049 --> 00:21:37.049 But if you're in Spain, there's a very noticeable 00:21:37.049 --> 00:21:38.569 difference between Basque people and Spanish 00:21:38.569 --> 00:21:40.170 people. You know, not just in the attitude, but 00:21:40.170 --> 00:21:42.769 just in the entire culture, in the physical appearance, 00:21:42.849 --> 00:21:44.630 like in everything. It's just a different type 00:21:44.630 --> 00:21:48.109 of people. Yeah, absolutely. We're going to go 00:21:48.109 --> 00:21:52.089 to a lot of reference places that showcase this 00:21:52.089 --> 00:21:54.960 exact cooking. in different styles. We're going 00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:57.579 to go to some traditional places that are at 00:21:57.579 --> 00:22:03.400 the very, very top of the culinary level here 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:07.059 and to a couple of places that are sort of like 00:22:07.059 --> 00:22:09.019 a modern interpretation of that cooking. So it 00:22:09.019 --> 00:22:11.279 should be really interesting. Yeah, but I think 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:14.539 it's transversal to all of them, the features 00:22:14.539 --> 00:22:17.059 that you mentioned. They're very produce -driven. 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:19.900 There's grill, I think, in all of them. Yeah, 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:24.379 we're going to especially learn about... how 00:22:24.379 --> 00:22:28.240 the fish breeding culture developed around here, 00:22:28.380 --> 00:22:30.880 because I think you get the best grilled fish 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.660 in the world, in the Basque country. And the 00:22:33.660 --> 00:22:36.259 way it's done is something that developed, well, 00:22:36.299 --> 00:22:39.160 let's ask tomorrow to Mikel. As far as I know, 00:22:39.220 --> 00:22:41.740 there are two schools. One is the school of Orio, 00:22:41.859 --> 00:22:44.019 which is where we're going. And the other is 00:22:44.019 --> 00:22:46.579 a school of Getaria, which is an ex -village. 00:22:46.859 --> 00:22:49.539 And the main difference is that in Orio, they 00:22:49.539 --> 00:22:52.329 would throw the fish. directly to the grill. 00:22:52.670 --> 00:22:55.789 And in Orio, they would put it in the las bazugueras, 00:22:55.789 --> 00:22:57.809 in these cages where you put the fish inside 00:22:57.809 --> 00:23:01.029 so you can flip it. Oh, I see. Okay. Okay. And 00:23:01.029 --> 00:23:04.950 I actually talked to Aitor Arregui from Elcano, 00:23:05.089 --> 00:23:09.329 and he told me he did a research to try to discover 00:23:09.329 --> 00:23:14.869 when these cages originated, and there was no 00:23:14.869 --> 00:23:16.730 conclusion. They couldn't find any reference. 00:23:17.470 --> 00:23:20.109 They don't know who or where it started. Yeah, 00:23:20.170 --> 00:23:22.309 because I mean, those cages also, they're so 00:23:22.309 --> 00:23:25.190 iconic nowadays, you know, like so many elements 00:23:25.190 --> 00:23:28.890 of the best cooking have become worldwide culture. 00:23:29.210 --> 00:23:31.609 The grilling cages, you know, they're used everywhere 00:23:31.609 --> 00:23:34.609 now, even in, you know, Japan. Yesterday, I saw 00:23:34.609 --> 00:23:36.650 a video of one of my old head chefs who's opened 00:23:36.650 --> 00:23:40.119 a restaurant in L .A. And he was like showing 00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:42.579 the grill cages like in his restaurant in L .A., 00:23:42.579 --> 00:23:44.859 you know, to like the cheesecake, the best cheesecake, 00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:48.019 you know, that's now a worldwide sensation. It's 00:23:48.019 --> 00:23:50.700 so cool how this like it is something about this 00:23:50.700 --> 00:23:54.160 cuisine that's just it's like it's almost like 00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:56.920 it's like the perfect type of cooking. And then 00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:59.259 elements just become extremely popular and get 00:23:59.259 --> 00:24:02.619 adapted worldwide. You go to Barcelona and you 00:24:02.619 --> 00:24:06.079 will see grilled fish a la Donostiara. Donostia 00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:08.900 style. Donostia is the Basque word for San Sebastian. 00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:12.960 So right now we're going to Casa Cámara, which 00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:15.200 is this place where they have a huge lobster 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:17.980 cage in the middle of the dining room where they 00:24:17.980 --> 00:24:20.920 literally get lobsters directly fresh from the 00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:23.759 sea to your table. Like a medieval torture device. 00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:29.140 Exactly. This restaurant is over 140 years old. 00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:34.319 That's crazy. 1884. There's pictures of that 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:37.799 lobster cage from ages ago. Yeah, because it 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:39.859 used to be a place where people would go to buy 00:24:39.859 --> 00:24:42.220 lobster before it became a restaurant. Yeah, 00:24:42.339 --> 00:24:44.079 it would make sense. Make the restaurant around 00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:46.819 the cage where you get the lobster. Then we went 00:24:46.819 --> 00:24:49.480 to Muca, which is like a modern Basque grill 00:24:49.480 --> 00:24:52.079 place from Juan Vargas, who you work with at 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.140 Mugares. At some point he was head chef at Mugares. 00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:58.519 When I went for dinner in 2016, he was. Yeah, 00:24:58.539 --> 00:25:02.319 he was there for a long time. He was like a remnant 00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:05.099 of what I thought was like the strongest team 00:25:05.099 --> 00:25:08.940 in Mugarets. He's very Spanish in his approach 00:25:08.940 --> 00:25:11.299 with a very deep appreciation for the Basque. 00:25:11.380 --> 00:25:14.920 And he's like super minimalist, produce -focused. 00:25:15.819 --> 00:25:17.859 It's super interesting. Very interesting. Very 00:25:17.859 --> 00:25:22.279 authentically niche. I've been to Muga before 00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:24.180 this. The interesting thing about it is that... 00:25:24.889 --> 00:25:29.369 They embrace the Basque grill culture, but they're 00:25:29.369 --> 00:25:32.289 very, very, very vegetable -driven, which is 00:25:32.289 --> 00:25:34.029 very interesting for a grill place. You know, 00:25:34.049 --> 00:25:39.650 he worked at Michel Bras. At Juan Vargas? For 00:25:39.650 --> 00:25:43.049 a short time. Ah, okay. Well, and Mugare is also 00:25:43.049 --> 00:25:45.390 very vegetable -driven. Yes. Or at least it used 00:25:45.390 --> 00:25:48.009 to be. Now it became more this techno -emotional 00:25:48.009 --> 00:25:51.990 kind of approach. That's today. Tomorrow, we're 00:25:51.990 --> 00:25:57.259 going to... Bodegón Xochimari, which is a place 00:25:57.259 --> 00:26:02.119 where Basque chefs go when they want to eat grilled 00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:05.500 fish. It's a place to go. It's also a historical 00:26:05.500 --> 00:26:09.539 place. They developed many of the ways, the grill 00:26:09.539 --> 00:26:14.519 styles. That's for lunch. For dinner, we're going 00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:17.619 to go to Asador Bedua, which is like three villages 00:26:17.619 --> 00:26:21.170 further to the west. Again, very traditional 00:26:21.170 --> 00:26:23.369 and very vegetable -driven for a grill place. 00:26:24.650 --> 00:26:28.829 Asadoras, you know, means a grill house. That 00:26:28.829 --> 00:26:31.710 will be Saturday. Sunday, we're going to visit 00:26:31.710 --> 00:26:35.710 Jade Gross in La Rioja. Nice. Again, another 00:26:35.710 --> 00:26:40.509 ex -head chef at Mugaritz. She started producing 00:26:40.509 --> 00:26:44.799 her own wines. in La Rioja, and I'm pretty excited 00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:47.880 about that. I don't know where we're going for 00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:50.640 lunch. I know she booked something. And for dinner, 00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:54.079 we come back to San Sebastian and we go to Narro. 00:26:54.140 --> 00:27:00.119 Again, modern Basque, ex -Mugaritz chefs, lots 00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:03.700 of respect for grilling, vegetable -driven. I 00:27:03.700 --> 00:27:06.799 don't know where we're going to have the guisantes, 00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:09.430 the lagrimas, the baby peas. I think that could 00:27:09.430 --> 00:27:11.589 be a good place for it. Probably. Maybe Asador 00:27:11.589 --> 00:27:14.470 Bedua could be a good place for it as well. Maybe 00:27:14.470 --> 00:27:17.329 Mucha as well. Maybe all of them. Maybe all of 00:27:17.329 --> 00:27:20.009 them, yeah. No, let's avoid repeating. Let's 00:27:20.009 --> 00:27:24.609 try to do it as diverse as possible. 100%, yeah. 00:27:24.769 --> 00:27:27.509 Because there's things to be had in each place. 00:27:28.069 --> 00:27:29.809 I mean, you can have steak in all of the places 00:27:29.809 --> 00:27:33.769 I mentioned. You can if you want to. We should 00:27:33.769 --> 00:27:36.210 have a steak at least once. Yeah. At least once. 00:27:36.269 --> 00:27:42.859 At least once. Agree. Yeah. That's it for this 00:27:42.859 --> 00:27:45.519 week's episode of Potluck Food Talks. If you 00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:47.440 like what we're doing, make sure to subscribe 00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:49.700 to the podcast so you never miss an episode. 00:27:50.059 --> 00:27:52.140 You can also find us on Instagram and TikTok 00:27:52.140 --> 00:27:55.640 as Potluck Food Talks. The show airs every Monday.