1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,520 Hi everyone, welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks. 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:11,240 My name is Eric, I'm here with my man Phil. 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,240 Is this the first time I say my name at the intro? 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,240 I think it is. 5 00:00:16,240 --> 00:00:19,720 And we're going to talk about humor in food. 6 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:29,920 So Phil, what are your thoughts about incorporating humorous elements into food slash dining? 7 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,920 Do you think it's bullshit? 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,920 Do you think it's something that can enhance an experience? 9 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,920 Do you think it's something that can be balanced? 10 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:43,920 Too little is boring, too much is exhausting. 11 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:45,920 What is even humor in food? 12 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:47,920 Yeah, that's what I'm asking myself right now. 13 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:49,920 I have no idea what you mean. 14 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,920 What's humor? 15 00:00:52,920 --> 00:01:03,920 Like tickets using an ice cream cart and coming by the table and serving your sorbet or your ice cream out of an ice cream cart. 16 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:05,920 Like those sorts of things. 17 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:06,920 Yeah, exactly. 18 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:12,920 I would say the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of humor in a dining experience, 19 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:19,920 it's el buyi and actually pretty old dishes from el buyi. 20 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,920 I guess doing that, you know, the menestra de verdura? 21 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:24,920 Yes. 22 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:33,920 I think like creating a dish where like a very classical dish of cooked beetroot and sweet peas and I don't know what else, 23 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:44,920 like vegetables that are usually savory and presenting them in shapes of ice cream or foams or things that are usually sweet, those textures. 24 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:55,920 And getting to see something like that, I can imagine that having something like that in the early 90s has to be really shocking, you know, like really like what the fuck is this? 25 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:06,920 And I think that whole movement, that whole wave of the Spanish avant-garde that was led by el buyi, I can think of the Roca brothers, I can think of Mugari. 26 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:14,920 Even Arsak or of course Arsak would have like this playful elements. 27 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:16,920 What are your thoughts on that? 28 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:26,920 Can you think of like an experience you had like in a restaurant where there was something humorous or funny that you find it to be brilliant? 29 00:02:26,920 --> 00:02:32,920 Or is it more like when you see this kind of thing, you go like, this is bullshit? 30 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:34,920 I think it's a little bit of both. 31 00:02:34,920 --> 00:02:38,920 I think it really depends how it's done. 32 00:02:38,920 --> 00:02:47,920 I don't think I've had so many experiences in that regard, but that's also because I usually go to different restaurants. 33 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:53,920 But I also think like now, like kind of thinking about it, I'm imagining it's like, where do you draw the line? 34 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:56,920 Like what is fun, right? 35 00:02:56,920 --> 00:03:13,920 So I think like, for example, you said the Roca brothers, when I see what like Jordi Roca does and the way that he kind of adds these sorts of like playful elements to his dishes and to the experience, I think it's amazing. 36 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:19,920 Just like how I, when I look at el buyi's approach, I think it's amazing. 37 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:28,920 Can you mention one or more examples of the Roca brothers or Jordi Roca, like a dish that caught your attention? 38 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:32,920 So this dish that's like super famous is like viral. 39 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:35,920 I think it's like eucalyptus, just like foam. 40 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:44,920 It's like a cloud that kind of like grows and then they cut it off and it kind of like juggle it with a palette knife and it kind of floats through the air. 41 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:53,920 And they juggle it to a stand that's in front of you and they place it right on it and then you eat it somehow. 42 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,920 I hadn't seen that dish, but I find it to be incredibly interesting. 43 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:59,920 You have to like, I feel like for sure you've seen it. 44 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:00,920 It's insane. 45 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:05,920 Like the first time I saw it, I was like, you know, this is, it's not my style of food. 46 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:16,920 I really would want to go to say a de Can Roca because I'm sure it's amazing and delicious and stuff as well as really innovative and playful. 47 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,920 And normally like gimmicky things are not so much my thing. 48 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:26,920 I'm more for like the nitty gritty down to earth crafty cooking, you know. 49 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:31,920 Anyway, when I saw that, when I saw that, I was like, what the fuck is going on? 50 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:37,920 But for example, don't you think that a Fregis Henderson can be humorous with his approach? 51 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:38,920 A hundred percent. 52 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:45,920 And actually I thought of a example that I've experienced with him where that was exactly the case. 53 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,920 Because I mean, like what is like humorous or fun? 54 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:52,920 Like where does it come from? 55 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:54,920 It often comes from an interaction. 56 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:56,920 And there can be a lot of things. 57 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:03,920 But for example, I had one of the best meals in London was one of my it was for my birthday. 58 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,920 It was a bread and wine, St. John bread and wine. 59 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:12,920 And we had a venison and trotter pie for main course to share between two people. 60 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:18,920 And just the act of like this like perfectly made, super rustic, but gorgeous pie coming. 61 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,920 And you're like one person takes the charge. 62 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:22,920 You're cutting the pastry. 63 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,920 You're like breaking it open. 64 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:26,920 The steam comes out. 65 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:28,920 You're like, oh, amazing. 66 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,920 You know, oh, here, there. 67 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:31,920 You serve it out. 68 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:32,920 It's really beautiful. 69 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:34,920 And that's for me is fun. 70 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:44,920 Or like if you get like an amazing like, you know, PTVA or something like that, or you have a whole chicken in a liqueur set with hay sealed with bread. 71 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,920 And that comes and everybody's like, oh, cool. 72 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:48,920 You break it open. 73 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:49,920 You take the lid off. 74 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:50,920 Steam comes out. 75 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,920 You smell the hay. 76 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,920 Like so dislike dislike interaction and getting involved with things. 77 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:00,920 I think that is what is really, really fun. 78 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:01,920 Yeah. 79 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:03,920 But I think you find also that kind of stuff. 80 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:14,920 And it's in a caseki menu where you get this, this dishes that look like a like a little beautiful Japanese garden with many different components. 81 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,920 And you go through them and you find different stuff. 82 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:24,920 Even though at the same time, it's pretty sober, you know, it comes like, oh, this is like a very bad. 83 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,920 I'm pretty sure it pretends to be fun. 84 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,920 Like it's part of the way it's done like that. 85 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:36,920 You know, it's not it's not serious in the manner of, you know what I mean? 86 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:38,920 Like overly formal. 87 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:39,920 Yeah. 88 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:40,920 Yeah. 89 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,920 At the same time it is, you know, whimsical in a way. 90 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:44,920 Yeah. 91 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:51,920 Yeah. And also like, you know, because you mentioned caseki like I, for example, I had a really great time at one caseki dinner. 92 00:06:51,920 --> 00:07:03,920 And it was because what I love about a lot of Japanese restaurants and approaches is like, you know, in a classic French restaurant, you have white china plates everywhere. 93 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:04,920 Right. 94 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:13,920 And so what I really appreciate about Japan was the wide variety of different plates and also like the appreciation for the ceramics. 95 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:20,920 So, you know, it didn't matter whether you and your partner next to you got the same dish. 96 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:22,920 It didn't really matter so much. 97 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,920 And I went to one dinner and I was just drinking tea all the way through. 98 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:28,920 And I think I ordered tea like six or seven times. 99 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:29,920 They were small cups. 100 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:30,920 Right. 101 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:32,920 Like it was just like really basic green tea. 102 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:39,920 And every single time I ordered the tea, it was a different cup, but like completely different, like completely different style. 103 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,920 And that aspect, it wasn't part of the like main menu or whatever. 104 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:45,920 It was just the way they were. 105 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,920 And they have like a selection of crockery and of ceramics. 106 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,920 But for me, it was super fun because like, and it made me want to like, it made me guess. 107 00:07:54,920 --> 00:08:00,920 I'm sort of like, if I order another tea, how many teas do I have to order until they're like out of it? 108 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:01,920 Yeah, exactly. 109 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:09,920 Those are the things that I'm talking about that add to the experience and they pretend to be fun. 110 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:16,920 These things are not made up to be like, oh, let's see how he reacts with seven different cups. 111 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,920 It's like a funny, playful joke. 112 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:21,920 Yeah, absolutely. 113 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:23,920 It's like even like just small things. 114 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:28,920 You know, I mentioned you were sitting in a restaurant and you're about to have the meat course and somebody comes with a box. 115 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,920 And there's like different types of steak knives in there. 116 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,920 It says, oh, now it's time for you to choose your steak knife. 117 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,920 Yeah, your weapon of choice. 118 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:40,920 Exactly. Which one do you choose? 119 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,920 Do you choose the one with the wooden handle that's carved? 120 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,920 Do you choose the one with the deer antler? 121 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,920 Do you choose maybe a completely different one? 122 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,920 You know, and it's just fun. 123 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:54,920 It involves you with what's going on. 124 00:08:54,920 --> 00:09:01,920 A lot of the times as a customer, I feel like you're kind of like you sit down, you order, you get one dish, you get the next, you get dessert and you're out. 125 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:09,920 But if you just take a few steps, as in like if you take the customer just a few steps out of that, it's really, really fun. 126 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:11,920 Like let them pour their own sauce. 127 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,920 Let them unwrap something. 128 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:19,920 Wrap your own burrito, make your own guacamole, like all this kind of stuff. 129 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:32,920 Yeah, yeah. Even just the simple act of eating with your hands often and breaking this barrier of like, you know, stiffness and a little bit awkwardness and, you know, loosening it up a little bit. 130 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,920 I feel like that can make a really, really big difference. 131 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,920 There's an example I mentioned. 132 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:56,920 I've mentioned many times, but even in the show, but I think it comes to this context, was this dinner that I had where Jordi Bros, he's now, he used to be head chef and now he is at the R&D team in Mugaritz. 133 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:01,920 He made this dinner where the concept, well, he and his team, they were students. 134 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:03,920 The concept was luck. 135 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:05,920 So they did many, many very fun things. 136 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:14,920 For example, they had like this blackjack table where you would take blackjack cards and each card was an ingredient and they would freestyle the dish that was on one side. 137 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:30,920 On the other side, they brought a dish that was one of the freestyle results that was a bread course, you know, like, and I've seen that also in Amelia and also in other restaurants where instead of having bread as a side thing, 138 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:40,920 there is a course where you have bread and butter and then you go on, you know, like it's not like it has its place, its protagonism at the point at the dinner. 139 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:47,920 I would say the highlight of that luck conceptual dinner was Breton, who is now, by the way, head chef at Aquilarre. 140 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:55,920 He was the, how to say, the tutor of this group and he was fucking around all night long since he entered to the dining room. 141 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:00,920 He was like, ah, where's the steak? I don't want this busy, busy New Vegasian bullshit. 142 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,920 I want a steak. Give me a chuleta. I want a chuleta. Where's the chuleta? 143 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,920 And he was saying this over and over and over and over again. 144 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,920 So the concept was luck. There was a blackjack. 145 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:16,920 And at some point they take a card out and they go like, oh, no, that shouldn't have happened. 146 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,920 That's like the unlucky card. 147 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:26,920 So the whole kitchen team comes out and they had a chuleta sliced. 148 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:31,920 Everyone had a slice and they were about to serve it, but they gave to Breton the dices. 149 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,920 You have to throw the dices now. And you're like, what? OK. 150 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:42,920 And it was, oh, that's bad luck. So all the chefs took out the slice and they ate it in front of us. 151 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,920 They left. That's hilarious. 152 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:52,920 That's really good. And it really worked because you got to do something like that and completely fucked it up. 153 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,920 Make everybody angry. You know, like, but in that case, it was like an ovation. 154 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:02,920 Everybody was like, oh, wow, this is incredible. That's really funny. 155 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,920 Yeah, see, that's like I think it's really depends. 156 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:10,920 Like it's like the whole molecular cuisine sort of thing. 157 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:16,920 Somebody does it and does it really well and everybody's like, wow, that was amazing. 158 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,920 And then everybody tries to do something similar, but does it like really mediocrely. 159 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:27,920 And I think it's kind of like that. You know, it's like if you if you're going to do it, you know, make sure you do it well. 160 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,920 And then it's really cool and it's really fun. It can be really faceted. 161 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:36,920 It can be a lot of things, you know. But yeah. 162 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:41,920 But also, for example, a savory sorbet. 163 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,920 I think that's fun. You know, like something. 164 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:53,920 But even something simple, you know, like like this playful with ice creams or an ice cream in general, not only a sorbet. 165 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:59,920 For example, making a I don't know, like a spinach ice cream, just to say like a very basic example. 166 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:09,920 But you remember this brainstorm we had once we had this game when Phil and I were together at Mago. 167 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,920 I would call it the Boba game. 168 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,920 That's how they call it in the Mugarets cookbook. 169 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:27,920 And you know, Boba and Forsgård where he would only talk about different ways to cook shrimps like stir-fried shrimp, baked shrimp, grilled shrimp. 170 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,920 Yeah, it's true. I remember. 171 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:39,920 So we would challenge each other to come up with like it was basically a brainstorm with good ideas around the concept. 172 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:44,920 And the concept was at that moment a savory ice cream. 173 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,920 And we were saying different stuff and different stuff. 174 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:54,920 And then at some point we came up with sushi rice ice cream. I think that's pretty interesting. 175 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,920 Which I think is still a great idea. Yeah, like I mean, just that on top of an oyster. 176 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:05,920 That's something, you know, that's something and something fun, something like, oh, nice, you know, like. 177 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:07,920 Absolutely. Yeah. Decontextualization. 178 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:23,920 Like I am actually a big fan of that, you know, I don't cook very gimmicky, but still decontextualizing, like making something so simple as take a really good onion, make it into a tartar tartar, you know. 179 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:28,920 Serve it with a vanilla chantilly if you want to, you know, what is an onion at the end of the day? 180 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,920 Then like, I mean, OK, onions are not onions, but like an onion can be incredibly sweet. 181 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:42,920 Right. Cook it with, cook it with cinnamon and star anise and vanilla and caramel and then serve it with puff pastry and like a vanilla chantilly. 182 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:52,920 Like, why not? Or, you know, like what I talked about in the last episode, you know, a this dessert that has a fiordilatte ice cream and basil, you know. 183 00:14:52,920 --> 00:15:03,920 And olive oil. It's like sounds like a savory dish, but it's not because you take it out of the context that you're used to and straight away it makes it, it makes it can make it more interesting. 184 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:13,920 Taking a melon and adding salt to it and making it part of a salad, but not like a fruity part of a salad, like the same as you would do with a tomato. 185 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:15,920 You're a fruity part of a salad. 186 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:20,920 Don't talk to me like that. I believe those kind of things when you talk like that. 187 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,920 Yeah, or like a watermelon salad, you know, like, yeah, something like that. 188 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:29,920 It's great, you know, at the end of the day, you start also looking at things differently. 189 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:42,920 You start looking at things for what they are like red pepper, like a bell pepper, you know, I think, you know, when you have like a like a really nice pekio pepper, that's like you roasted and dehydrated and it's almost like fruit leather. 190 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:50,920 It's like intense, sweet, you know, deep flavor and you're kind of with so many things in cooking. 191 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:58,920 You have to realize I associate this certain product with something because I have learned culturally to associate it with something. 192 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:04,920 And if you can step back from that, like, for example, in the West eating insects, it's like, oh, no, an insect. 193 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:06,920 That's disgusting. 194 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:16,920 You know, it's kind of like, well, ask yourself, what is the difference really objectively between a shrimp and a and a cricket? 195 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:28,920 I recently I recently learned that people that are allergic to crickets and many insects are also allergic to crustaceans because they're somehow related. 196 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:29,920 Yeah, there you go. 197 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:39,920 Doesn't surprise me, but it's kind of like a lot of people will look at a shrimp and be like, that looks delicious because you imagine it roasted with garlic butter or however you want to have it. 198 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,920 You know, you look at a cricket and you're like, I'm not going to eat that. 199 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,920 Why? Because it's not part of your culture. 200 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:47,920 That's OK. You know, just don't be a hater. 201 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:59,920 If you can like step back from that, then suddenly the things that you know really open themselves up because you can be really, really free in your approach. You just look at them. What is it? 202 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:05,920 Is it crunchy? Is it soft? Is it sweet? Is it bitter? Is it sour? What is it? And what can I do with it? 203 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:13,920 You know, I name that comes to my mind is Pedrito Sanchez from Baga in Hain, South Spain. 204 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:19,920 For me, he is what maybe the most exciting chef right now in Spain. 205 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,920 He's doing like a very minimalistic and very thoughtful cuisine. 206 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:29,920 And I had the opportunity to dinner and an event he did here in San Sebastian. 207 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:36,920 And some of the dishes were naughty in manure sauce, for example, with capers. 208 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:43,920 You know, something like someone like you who understand like all these words is like, oh, that's thoughtful. 209 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:49,920 Or interesting. Yeah. Or serving salad and a dessert. 210 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,920 So I was just going to say, is he the guy with the like the sorbet with the salad? 211 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:58,920 Yeah, it was like what was a sorbet? 212 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:04,920 So it was a salad with a syrup and it was a rice vinegar sorbet. 213 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:09,920 Oh, yeah. Pretty similar to. Yeah. 214 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:14,920 Where did he get that idea from? That sounds genius. 215 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:21,920 Of course it does. Great minds think alike. 216 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:31,920 But then again, I can't say now even from the very good places, even though I haven't been to these places, 217 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:37,920 I wouldn't have to go to have my own opinion. But I can think of I forget it too much. 218 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:45,920 You know, like I can think of maybe fat dog, maybe the virtual that where you have like, I don't know, 219 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:51,920 like this kind of stuff where you have a sculptor of a red pig walking over the ceiling 220 00:18:51,920 --> 00:19:01,920 or put your headphones to listen to the sound of outer space while you eat a oyster. 221 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:06,920 You know, it's like, OK, maybe maybe that's too much. 222 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,920 Like, I don't know. I don't know. I would have to try. 223 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,920 I totally agree. I totally agree. It's like I have the same opinion. 224 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:20,920 And I would still have the same opinion if I hadn't heard from people that I respect culinarily that they went to the fat dog and it was amazing. 225 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,920 And it was like all this like stuff. It was really, really fun. 226 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:25,920 And so I was like, OK, maybe it was like really well done. 227 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:39,920 But for example, like I can. Arsak had a dish where you eat like a like a sea landscape and it's like on top of this like like an iPad with waves and wave sounds. 228 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:45,920 And and then I'm kind of like, no, you lost me there. You know, like you. I don't know. 229 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,920 That's the thing. That's the thing. When you know it has it has to work. 230 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:59,920 It's not like when you have like, I don't know, like a clown at a children's birthday that comes in tells you, I'm a magician. 231 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:06,920 And you're like, OK, it's not working on me. You know, like it's like. 232 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:11,920 Can you leave me alone, please? I'm to finish my dish. 233 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,920 Go away. Yeah, it's horrible when it's like that. 234 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,920 I mean, when it works, it's it's great. 235 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:25,920 But if it doesn't work, you really fucked up because the diners are completely like, man, I can. 236 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,920 I think that's something that happens and it's over and over and over again. 237 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:36,920 Yeah, did we talk about the Mugarritz documentary that I saw relatively recently? 238 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:42,920 And Nipa Nipostri or what? What is it? Yeah, exactly. 239 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,920 Yeah, we have not talked about it. I have also not seen it. 240 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:52,920 So I saw the cinema because I had a friend that is somehow related to the documentary. 241 00:20:52,920 --> 00:21:02,920 But, you know, I have this conflict with we've talked about this many times, but I have this conflict of what I just said, like that children's birthday clown, 242 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:09,920 that it doesn't connect to the audience and it doesn't work. So at the end, it ends up being awkward. 243 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,920 That happens. I feel that happens sometimes in Mugarritz. 244 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:19,920 And the problem is, problem from my perspective, of course, that they're proud about it. 245 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,920 They say at least we did whatever the fuck we wanted. 246 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:29,920 You know, like it's true. And if people get angry about it, we achieved something. 247 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:38,920 So they actually have that way of thinking, which is absolutely against any rule about providing a service. 248 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,920 Basically, yes, they don't care. I mean, they have the artist's approach. 249 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:47,920 They say, well, if we get a reaction out of you, good, you know, at least you felt something. 250 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:52,920 Yeah, you know my opinion about this. I think most people listening to the show regularly do as well. 251 00:21:52,920 --> 00:22:01,920 I respect. I'm happy that Mugarritz exists, but it's yeah, it's not. I can't agree with that approach. 252 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:07,920 Yeah, me neither. They were actually making fun of the documentary, the reading, 253 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:13,920 because they would give you this like a booklet where you write your emotions during the experience. 254 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:21,920 Of course, a lot of people that love it, of course, but there's people that genuinely and strongly hate it. 255 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,920 You know, they write it. They will. Yeah. 256 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,920 It's an intense hate because you've spent a lot of money to be there. Exactly. 257 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:36,920 And nothing hurts people as much as their wallet. You know, so when they've spent, I don't know, 300 bucks to be there, 258 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:41,920 you know, with traveling and also on top of that. And then they're like, what the fuck is going on here? 259 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:48,920 You can argue that it's like, hey, if you if you haven't informed yourself about what Mugarritz is and what it does, 260 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:54,920 then it's kind of on you a little bit. We live in a we live in 2025. 261 00:22:54,920 --> 00:23:00,920 There's plenty of information about Mugarritz out there in the world. But yeah, I get it. 262 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,920 Plenty of bad reviews as well. Just go to the Google reviews. 263 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:10,920 How many stars do they have on Yelp or Google? I don't know. 264 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:16,920 By the way, our stock is very high on these kind of platforms on TripAdvisor and Google reviews. 265 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,920 I think it's the best restaurant in San Sebastian. Oh, really? 266 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:26,920 That's all paid for. 100 percent. I'm sorry. No, no, no, no, no, no. 267 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:32,920 I mean, like our stock is he's like a living God all over Spain. He's like the classic OG in Spanish cuisine. 268 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:38,920 Well, the old man, not Elena. But I think for that reason, people respect the place so much. 269 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,920 And at the end of the day, it's a very classic thing. 270 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:50,920 I mean, they pretend to be very modern and playful. But at the end of the day, the recipes are very academic. 271 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,920 Hmm. Yeah, I got what you mean. Yeah. 272 00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:05,920 But then again, going back to the topic, I think like a good channel to add a humorous layer to the experience. 273 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:11,920 And that works pretty well, even in very classic restaurants is service stuff. 274 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,920 The metri, a funny metri that knows how to nail a joke in the right moment. 275 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,920 And he has done it millions of times, so he knows exactly what he's doing. 276 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,920 And he says something like, trupsh, and then he leaves. 277 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,920 You know, like that adds a lot to the experience as well. I think that's also pretty important. 278 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:43,920 100%. And it's really underrated, I think. It's because it's really hard to nail the balance between being relaxed and friendly and witty, 279 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:50,920 but also not too forward, like to the guests and also realizing like when is enough? 280 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:56,920 Like, what is the capacity of the guests? Like when do they do they appreciate you talking to them? 281 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,920 Do they actually kind of want to continue that conversation? That's like a very, very fine line to walk. 282 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,920 And I feel there's very few people who know how to do this. 283 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:12,920 So either you're very stoic and very like, hmm, friendly and blah, and like, yeah, you know, can I do this? Can I do that? 284 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:18,920 Or I see a lot of people really overdoing it also. And you're kind of like, okay, all right, buddy. Yeah. 285 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:30,920 I saw the other day like a video of this server in the States and it had a sort of title of kind of like how to like how to increase your tips. 286 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,920 And she was sort of like pretending and making jokes and stuff like that. 287 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:42,920 And I it was like not funny enough to be a satire, like to be sarcastic. 288 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:53,920 So I think she meant it, but it was like just it was just too much, you know, for it to be like I was like, no, that's really uncomfortable, really uncomfortable. 289 00:25:53,920 --> 00:26:02,920 And really like I would be sort of I think me at one point who doesn't give a shit, I'd be like, can you please go away? 290 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:09,920 Sorry, I'm not trying to be rude, but we'd really like to continue our conversation. 291 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,920 Was that shitty? Leave now. Go away. 292 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:21,920 But something as simple as just a funny comment, you know, related to the food, of course. 293 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:28,920 But I can think of I was in this restaurant where we had the the squab, the game, the course. 294 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:34,920 And after we ate it, the waiters and something like did the bird flew away already? 295 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:40,920 Something like that, you know, yeah, you know, just like a little touch. And I think that that's also appropriate. 296 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:51,920 Even in a very formal setting, it should be part of the, you know, like of the whole set of tools that you can use to to enhance the experience. 297 00:26:51,920 --> 00:27:06,920 100 percent. Yeah, it's like salt, you know, you know, just kind of like how much to use, not too little, not too much, just exactly the right amount to spice things up. 298 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,920 That's it for this week's episode of potluck food talks. 299 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,920 If you like what we're doing, make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. 300 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,920 You can also find us on Instagram and TikTok as potluck food talks. 301 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,920 The show airs every Monday.