1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,480 Hi everyone, welcome to potluck food talks. Today I'm here with Jonathan Pomerink. He's 2 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:17,680 a whelver's chef that has worked in different countries and now he's a co-worker of mine 3 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:23,200 at Basque Culinary Center and I wanted to check on his life track because he's been 4 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:29,120 in some interesting places with different philosophies. Well, first of all, welcome 5 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,520 Jonathan, nice to have you here. Thank you for inviting me to your podcast. So you've 6 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:39,600 had an incredibly diverse career. Let's start with your roots. How did growing up in New 7 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:47,120 York City influence your early relationship with food and cooking? Well, I mean, living 8 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:52,560 in New York in general, one starts to like normalize certain things. You have so many 9 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:57,920 different cultures and cuisines that you just become kind of, I don't know, numb to it. So 10 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:03,360 it's like growing up around everything, you just try to consume as much as possible. And 11 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:08,000 in my family, it's always about what's the next thing we're going to eat. You know, like 12 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,280 every time we're eating something, we're already talking about our next meal, what we're going to 13 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:16,320 be eating. You know, it's something that from a young age, it's always been around. Food's 14 00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:20,800 always been a part of every aspect of your life. You know, like you go to somebody's house for a 15 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,560 party or whatever, it's just a bunch of food, who brings what. But New York, it's just you get 16 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:30,160 so many influences and you get so many chances to try different types of food from a young age. 17 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,880 And it makes you a little bit more, I mean, one or two things that makes you a lot more open 18 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:40,400 towards them or makes you completely closed off from wanting to try anything different. Yeah, 19 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:45,440 I like the times I've been in New York City. It's crazy because you can find an amazing place from 20 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:54,000 Haiti or you name it, like Tibet. It doesn't matter. Like I think every single country 21 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:59,600 on earth is well represented with a restaurant in New York City. And you just have to look for it 22 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,600 and find it. And it seems most of the time very authentic. I mean, I didn't leave the United 23 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:09,600 States until I was like 24, almost 25. But it's like living in New York, it kind of feels like 24 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:14,160 you can like visit several different countries all in one city. And it's like, it's not just 25 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,440 the food you would like a certain neighborhood and like a certain community of people live there. 26 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,600 And it's like everything's in their language, you know, from the grocery stores to the street signs. 27 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:26,400 It's like everything's in that language and it just becomes like a little mini country. 28 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:33,520 And it's kind of mind blowing. And you don't notice how how lucky or how how much variety 29 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,040 there is until you move away from that. Because I lived a few years in Florida and it was just like 30 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:43,840 night and day. And also when I moved to after I moved to Argentina, too, it's like being in a 31 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:48,960 little in a place where it's like so many different cultures that have to live together and having the 32 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,800 opportunity to try so many different things. When you go somewhere else where things tend to be a 33 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:59,680 little bit more pure, in a sense, you kind of start missing those those opportunities that you had in 34 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:04,480 the past where you were able to just walk down the street and try certain Chinese food from a 35 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:09,920 certain region in China. Whereas like now you're lucky if you can even find fast food, Chinese 36 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:10,480 fast food. 37 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:17,600 And how how did you start cooking? What was your like your first steps or your first food? 38 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,680 Your first steps or your first restaurant? Your first kid in high school? I don't know. 39 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:26,400 So I started out when I was really, really young because my my parents were working. So I would 40 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,560 cook for like my brothers in my family with my grandmother. And then later on, I mean, I started 41 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:35,680 getting I started liking food. I started getting a lot of weight when I was around being a teenager. 42 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:40,720 So I just enjoyed eating. So it pretty much went from there. Enjoy eating. So if I enjoyed eating, 43 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:47,440 I'd have to cook to be able to eat. And then I got into a high school for that had a culinary 44 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:53,040 program and the culinary program was like a four year program. It was a trade school and 45 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,240 the it was a restaurant that was connected to the school. So the students will work 46 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,280 in the restaurant in your periods, your class periods of the day, depending on what 47 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:08,560 period you were in, you would be doing big production for the service or production or 48 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:14,080 mise en place service or clean up. So those four years of just like doing every aspect front of 49 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:18,960 house also in back of house, learning the history of I mean, everything you would learn in normal 50 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:24,080 culinary school, but at a high school level. Okay, that's that's super cool. That's amazing. Yeah, 51 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:27,920 it's not so common. I mean, this place is in the United States and like that, but it's kind of like, 52 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,680 I don't know, it almost seems kind of like when you think about it, the Europeans has like an 53 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,520 apprenticeship program or something from years and years ago, people would do like start from 54 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:41,040 a young age, learning something and then just work up from there. How old were you? I was 14. 55 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:47,280 Wow. Okay. 13 or 14. So yeah, I was able to absorb a lot. I mean, it became a little repetitive at 56 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:52,480 once, but that's sometimes the best way to learn when you're younger, like repetitive consistency. 57 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:57,840 So it was four years and it's to be honest, I look back on it very fondly because it was actually 58 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:03,840 like, I don't know, a pathway to continue and on with it because I actually enjoyed it. It 59 00:05:03,840 --> 00:05:09,200 wasn't something I hated. So I was able to continue with it. So then you've worked in some iconic New 60 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:16,720 York City restaurants, like the Modern and the Living Madison Park. I mean, a book that really 61 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:21,440 influenced me was Setting the Table from Danny Mayer and both of these restaurants, at least 62 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:29,840 originally Living Madison Park were part of Union Square Hospitality Group. How was it? Did you 63 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:35,040 got any influence in your philosophy on hospitality and food from these places? 64 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:40,160 I feel like it traveled down to like the employees, but on a day-to-day basis, not as much as you would 65 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:44,800 want it to me or at least when I was there. I mean, so Setting the Table, I never read, I have it in 66 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:50,080 three different versions. I have it in a hardback, a paperback and another version. I mean, I had 67 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,680 several different versions of Setting the Table. One I got when I finished culinary school in New 68 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,760 York that they gave you when you graduated from there. Another one when I was working for Union 69 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:04,000 Square Hospitality, I never read a single page of it. So the book is actually like a textbook 70 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:09,200 you get at culinary schools or these kind of things. So when you graduate, like I had two 71 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:13,280 different classes. So I had like the whole culinary arts part and then I was also taking another 72 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:20,000 class, another degree with restaurant and hotel management. We actually learned a lot there, but 73 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,920 I was the youngest person. I was like 19 or something like that and everybody else there was like 74 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:30,480 people that wanted to start their own businesses or people that changed their careers. So yeah, 75 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,200 they gave you the book when you're done with that class along with a whole bunch of other books and 76 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:41,200 stuff like that. And the culinary when you finished that, they gave you LaRouche, which is like the 77 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,360 encyclopedia for like cooking and stuff like that. Yeah. But yeah. And then I also got it when I was 78 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:50,160 working for a New Square Hospitality group. To be honest, I was actually at a living mass park when 79 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:55,200 it was still a part of a New Square Hospitality group. And to be honest, one of the craziest 80 00:06:55,200 --> 00:07:01,360 things, one of the funnest things about it was that so one of the original Shake Shack spots, 81 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:07,440 which is in Madison Square Park is literally across the street from 11 Madison Park. So I have so 82 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,360 many memories of days like when we were so much in the shade or something was happening where we 83 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:15,360 wouldn't be able to do family meal. So we would just make a run over like an order and make a run 84 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:21,600 to Shake Shack. But I mean, I've heard so many things and the classes that I did take for like 85 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:29,040 restaurant, hotel management, so much of stuff like Danny Meyer and people from his company. 86 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,800 There was other people like Mark Maynard and a whole bunch of other people that were super 87 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:38,320 influential inside of Unisquare House, how they would come and speak to us. So we had speakers all 88 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:43,120 the time and I'm talking about a class of like 15 people. So it was all very intimate information. 89 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:48,240 And we would get a lot of stuff. We would do tours of different restaurants and bars and stuff like 90 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,960 that, part of Unisquare Hospitality Group. And then I mean, I started working there. I wasn't even, 91 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:57,200 to be honest, when I was looking for the jobs and for my externship, I wasn't looking at it because 92 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,880 it was Unisquare Hospitality Group. I was looking at it because of what they were working, what they 93 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:06,800 were like accomplishing. Yeah, because I mean, these are well-known restaurants and even from 94 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:11,440 the very beginning, both of them, well, modern as far as I know, it's much older, but 11 Madison 95 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:17,840 Park is that from the very beginning was like a big deal. Like already well-established chefs, 96 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:24,000 and everything. Yeah. I mean, 11 Madison Park, I will always look back on it finally, but it was 97 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:32,720 definitely like bootcamp. I can't imagine. Yeah. And I'm talking about French old school bootcamp. 98 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:38,880 Yeah, but it was just bootcamp on the level of just like trying to be super, I'm talking about, 99 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:44,000 this is 2010, 2011. So, I mean, this was right around when they first started, like blowing up 100 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,200 with like three Michelin stars when they were getting four stars from New York Times, 101 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:53,280 I'm not even sure what year they were first on the 50s best. I don't remember what year the 50 best 102 00:08:53,280 --> 00:09:00,640 came out, but it was just like everything was blowing up. Things were getting so toxic. I mean, 103 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:07,280 it was just getting so to a level of success, but at the same time, things were just like so skewed. 104 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:13,920 Like you come, you start, I don't know, it was just like, it's hard to look back on it right now. 105 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,840 I forget that it was a part of the Union Square hospitality group in this moment, just because of 106 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:24,560 like, I don't want to say like their goals or their values were, did it line up because in a sense 107 00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:30,480 they did, but it was just like, we're working at such a high, at such a level that like hospitality 108 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:35,600 in the back of house wasn't really like, we weren't being hospitable to each other. Okay. 109 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,920 You know what I mean? Like the guest definitely was, the guest was definitely receiving that, 110 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:44,320 but it's like, it's like, we will work super hard. And then like whenever it was partying for any 111 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,400 of the athletes we would get, the parting was just ridiculous. I have a story, one story that was 112 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,920 pretty crazy about the party that we did when they got the, the three mission stars, 113 00:09:54,560 --> 00:10:01,040 but I can leave that for later or whatever. No, no, no, go ahead. So that night after service was 114 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:05,440 over. So whenever they did any sort of party at 11 Madison park, it pretty, pretty much would be 115 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:11,680 open. I mean, they weren't, I mean, in this moment, what was that Facebook maybe, uh, in Twitter, 116 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:16,480 but nobody was like posting online, like party at EMP, you know, but like, it'd be like everybody 117 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:21,760 would know when something was one people in the industry, all the work is there. People that were 118 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,760 there are like previous workers or coworkers or people that you're not the whole place would just 119 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:32,560 fill with celebrities and you would just drink and eat crazy shit all night long. And the thing was 120 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:37,440 is that morning shift started every day at least well pastry. I don't remember if it was like five 121 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,560 o'clock or something like that, but like everybody else that worked the morning shift would come in 122 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:46,240 at 6 a.m. So actually at this point I was already working nighttime, so it didn't bother me much, 123 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,320 but basically everybody that had worked morning shift after the night that we had this crazy 124 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:55,200 party, like I have pictures like Daniel will loot on top of tables and stuff popping, I've got 125 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,600 champagne, magnums of champagne. It was just crazy. He was just soaking people with champagne 126 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:05,920 bottles. Just like these things I look I think back on it. I'm like, like that really happened, 127 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:10,080 you know, and it's like that night everybody that worked AM shift slept in dry storage. 128 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,520 So I dry storage was separate, which was actually kind of like its own little 129 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:21,600 torture room because every like everybody every single day would have to go in to like dry storage 130 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:26,480 and do relabeling and stuff like that. It was kind of like its own craziness. But the fact is that 131 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:31,600 they all had a whole AM back house team had to sleep in dry storage the whole night. But there 132 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:38,080 was also people sleeping in the locker rooms on top of like, I don't know, old chef coats and stuff 133 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:44,480 like that. People just sleeping in random spots. It felt like like a teenager, like a weekend party, 134 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,160 like everybody got fucked up, you know what I mean? Like just random people sleeping in random spots. 135 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:52,000 And the next day everything was business as usual, but at the same time everybody was 136 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:57,920 completely like destroyed. Like there was like no talking. And it was kind of like one of the times 137 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:02,320 where you can think back on it as like nobody was being too hard on anybody because everybody was 138 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:08,000 in the shit. Like everybody was feeling like terrible. It was quiet front of house, back of 139 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:12,640 house. Nobody was yelling at anybody. And it was just, I don't know, I remember that service very 140 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:19,840 well. So then later you, your career took you to Argentina and you let some fine dining kitchens 141 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:25,520 over there. Like how did you end up in Argentina? What were the places you work? What can you share 142 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:30,640 about that? Well, I mean, the reason I got to Argentina was because my, my now wife, but my 143 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:37,200 girlfriend at that time was, is Argentinian. And she came a few times to the United States for a 144 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,560 couple of months. And then they came up on where it was just like, she's like, I'm gonna be able 145 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:44,480 to finish what she's doing. So I went, I ended up going there and it was my opportunity to actually 146 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,080 leave the United States because I had never gone before. And I had a passport either until I was 147 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:53,200 like 24. So it was my opportunity to go to Argentina Kate that I had to be honest, I didn't 148 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:58,720 really know much about. I knew some stuff, but I went there on a whim and I basically just went 149 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:06,640 there in 2015. And that's when like the real stuff started. Like I, I tried contacting so many places 150 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:13,360 for visas, like work visas and all these types of things. And to be honest, like even, I mean, 151 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:18,960 I was still young, but even with the resume I had, it was just super difficult to get anybody to like 152 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,280 take you on because I mean, it was just, I don't know exactly. Most of the time people were just 153 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:29,360 not knowledgeable of how the visa stuff worked. So I was trying a bunch of different places 154 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:35,200 in what I say is actually like the main where I say the city. And I wasn't able to get a job. I 155 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:40,000 was like, it was really hard to get a job. I was like trying to hit all the places that were like 156 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:46,560 higher up. And I wasn't getting, I mean, I had people, for example, out of Mudo, which was like 157 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:51,360 just this year I got there for the one of the, it's the only restaurant I went to that has two 158 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:56,720 Michelin stars and they just got it this year. Yeah. I had a sit down interview with him when I 159 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:01,440 went there in 2015 and tried getting a job with him. And he was like, like the interview was in 160 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:06,000 English, which I'm grateful for. And then that moment I wasn't able to communicate to all Spanish, 161 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:11,760 but like literally the guy said to me, he's like, we work long hours and we pay very little. That 162 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:19,760 was his intro. Yeah. Basically it was kind of like, that's what we do here and I'm not hiring. 163 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:26,160 So I went to Mar del Plata and then that's like a four hour away beach city. It's like their biggest 164 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:31,680 beach city they have in Argentina where everybody, the Porto Inos from Buenos Aires go to during the 165 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:37,200 summer. And I just started trying to find places. I was working in what they call in Negro, basically 166 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:42,720 undocumented at that point. I had a tourist visa, but I was just trying several different places 167 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:50,160 working three months at a time. And then about a year, year and a half in, I ended up getting 168 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:55,120 married. So once I got married, that completely paved the way to have paperwork to be able to 169 00:14:55,120 --> 00:15:02,560 like have an actual residency and work like legally. And I started working at a friend of a 170 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:08,160 friend of my wife. He was leaving as the Chateau Gouzine and I got into a place that was like a 171 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:15,520 Nikkei restaurant. So for people that don't know, Nikkei is a Peruvian Japanese fusion that started 172 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:21,840 with the migration of Japanese to Peru. And it's quite interesting because basically you will see 173 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:28,480 like sushi with ceviche mayos or these kinds of combinations of Peruvian cuisine and Japanese 174 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:35,440 culture. It's kind of like the more elegant or interesting version that Japanese food took 175 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,280 internationally. You have like United States version, the American version where they had 176 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,160 Philadelphia cream cheese to like Japanese food. And then you have what they did in Peru, which 177 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:48,960 is a little bit more refined or interesting. Yeah, I love that trade by the way. I was recently in 178 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:55,280 Yacumanca in Barcelona and I had like a super beautiful Nikkei ceviche, super delicious. 179 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,720 I mean, it's super interesting. To be honest, I was a little bit ignorant before going into the place. 180 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,480 And I mean, I found the things that they were doing somewhat interesting. I mean, there was 181 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:11,360 other things that were kind of a little wild, like cooking sweet potatoes in Fanta, for example, 182 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,840 for a dish. You know, I mean like wild shit that I had never seen before in my life. Like I don't 183 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:22,400 know anybody else that ever cooked sweet potatoes in Fanta soda. But I mean, they were doing like 184 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:28,000 ceviche with like hot, hot, hot rock rocks that we would heat up in the oven and then serve a ceviche 185 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:33,200 with like a clear leg that we would put on the rock when we serve it. But it was kind of a wild 186 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,920 place because there was also sushi as well. It was just and it was kind of like one of those places 187 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:44,160 that was trying to be a little bit more than they could like trying to be something that they 188 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:50,240 couldn't exactly execute 100 percent. Yeah. I know. I know that that profile. Yeah, for sure. 189 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:55,280 Yeah. The thing is, like in Argentina or at least in Maratlata, that's like like the MO for like 90 190 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,120 percent of the places, you know? Yeah, like 90 percent of places happen like that. Like people 191 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,320 that have money open a place without really knowing the restaurant industry. I mean, it happens 192 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:08,880 everywhere. But in this particular place, which is open to this day, but like there are the scope of 193 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,520 what they're doing changed over the years, but they're still doing sushi stuff. It was just 194 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,520 kind of wild. Like I was the chef to cuisine and the restaurant part of the order would do all the 195 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:24,320 sushi stuff like one of the partners owners. And it was just mismanagement, you know, like. 196 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:29,760 I don't know discrepancies between the owners. One of the owners would like disappear for like 197 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:34,000 a month and go to Morocco on a trip. And there'll be days that would go by. We didn't even know if 198 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,760 we would sometimes we would get paid or or if the restaurant closed because there would be 199 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:43,600 disagreements between the owners. The other order would was club would play in a band. So like Friday, 200 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:48,480 Saturday nights he would even be there. So it'd be like wild Friday, Saturday nights. They would do 201 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,840 like Wednesday or you can eat sushi with the kitchen open as well. And it was just like it was just 202 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,360 wild. And you know, like when I went in there, I should have I asked the guy to that was like the 203 00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:01,120 chef was like, you've been here for less than a year. Why are you leaving? And it was just kind of 204 00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:04,960 like, no, I want to do something else. You know what I mean? Then I was just like, this isn't 205 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,800 sitting with me right. But I mean, it was a month after I got my paperwork, I was actually finally 206 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:13,680 able to work. So it was like step in, you know, I was there for five months and then I decided to 207 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:20,960 leave. So then from there, I got into a hotel from from a previous customer at the restaurant. 208 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:26,800 It was like Argentinian guy, but he had like he was like a glass manufacturer in Canada. I don't 209 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,840 know. But he was Argentinian. I don't understand this. So many people that I met in Argentina 210 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,840 would just have companies in other countries. So the guy would come to the restaurant once 211 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,400 in a while and try to talk to me in English to practice his English. And when I stopped working 212 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,880 that he contacted me and he wanted to contact me for like a private event. And one day he brought 213 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:48,880 me to the like the five star hotel in the city there. One of the two or three that are there, 214 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:55,280 a luxury hotel, Hotel Casalana. And I went there and he brought me and he brought me to the food 215 00:18:55,280 --> 00:19:00,000 and beverage manager. Food and beverage manager is a French guy. He's like in his 60s. He's been 216 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,800 working. He's been making bang the guy. He's like one of the only French people that are in the food 217 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:10,480 business in Malibu. So like he has lots of experience from many years, but he's been there 218 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:16,480 for 30 and 30, 35 years. And this guy brought me there. He just started. Who is this? Is this the 219 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:24,000 La Borgonia? No, so La Borgonia is the restaurant. It was how do I explain this? So like the 220 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,320 restaurant, it's kind of like, like when Gordon Ramsay, you know, he opens a restaurant, puts his 221 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,640 name on it, but it's a little bit more intimate in a sense. Like so La Borgon, the restaurant, 222 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:40,240 the chef is Champolle Wondou. Exactly. Because this guy, since I started cooking like over 20 223 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:46,560 years ago, he was already like the only Argentinian with a Réle Château or something. Yeah. That's 224 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:51,680 the chef, but he has, he had several restaurants in different countries in Latin America, but the 225 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:56,560 food and beverage manager was also French. So that's where the connection comes in. So the 226 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,080 restaurant came in through the food and beverage manager, but this guy brought me there. He just 227 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,760 started like, like making up stories to the French food and beverage manager. You know, you have no 228 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,200 idea how good French food this guy makes. I'm like, I'm working at a Niké restaurant. Like, 229 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,760 what are you talking about? You don't even know me. And he basically sold me to the food and 230 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:17,200 beverage manager. And I got called in two weeks later. And then from there, I just became, went 231 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,200 from like a line cook one week. The next week I was a sous chef. And then a month later I was like 232 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:26,240 becoming the chef of that restaurant, La Borgon. And, uh, I mean, it wasn't really, really well 233 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:31,360 because like, so Jean Paul won't do. Yeah. The guy's like in his seventies. He's been in Latin 234 00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:36,720 America since like the seventies. Like there's a, there's a YouTube channel where it's like great 235 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:41,600 European chefs, I think it's called, or it's like a series from like the eighties or something like 236 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:46,320 that. Great European chefs were like, they'll bring you, they'll show you like a French chef 237 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:52,320 and he'll do like 20 minutes of just like his most iconic food. And it's a British series. 238 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,600 And it's really interesting. Like if you watch it, there's so many different random chefs, 239 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,920 some that you really know today and other ones that are kind of like really good gems from like 240 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:04,880 the seventies, eighties, nineties, very like new veil cuisine. Okay. But, um, so he was in one of 241 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,360 those pro he was in one of those episodes. What year, what year were you in this restaurant? 242 00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:16,320 So that was in 2000. So from 2017 into 2023, I was there. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Now, 243 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,640 because I have a friend who was there, but like, uh, I don't know, I would say 2014 and something 244 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:25,520 like that in Argentina in La Volgonia. Yeah. Okay. Because they're, they're headquarter, like their 245 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:30,720 headquarters, they're, they're like, how would you say like the flat, um, their main restaurant 246 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:35,760 is in Uruguay in Punto del Este. And that's where they have like their, I think he actually 247 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:40,400 wasn't the, in the Ruan restaurant. Yeah. Cause that's the one, only one to this day that's still 248 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:46,080 open. Um, but that's like their, their main one, like the flagship. Okay. Yeah. Flagship. That's 249 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,400 how I was, I was trying to forget English words all the time. Yeah. So then I started working there. 250 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:56,240 I worked like, uh, with, with Sean Paul and we were go back and forth. His kids would come as 251 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,240 well, which are also in the same industry, his son and daughter. And we would like work on, 252 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:05,200 we would change the menu four times a year. We would do certain festivals around certain times 253 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:10,160 of the year. We'd do certain festivals. And then like maybe two years into it, a year and a half, 254 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:15,120 he just started letting me go along with the menu, you know, uh, before that it would be kind of like, 255 00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:18,960 uh, a thing between all of us or if his kids wanted to try something out. But then from on, 256 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,480 from that point on, it was just me talking about certain things. And then I just took off from 257 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,480 there, you know, like I was just doing my own thing, creating the menu, every, I mean, it was 258 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:31,360 kind of like a weird concept, not a weird concept, but like the hotel working at hotels, sometimes 259 00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:35,040 they constantly are changing things, you know, they always want to try to like be the best or 260 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:41,280 try something different. So like, I would basically be doing five course or six course tasting menu 261 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:48,960 changing weekly. And it was just wild because I owned it was me and two other people. And that's 262 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:57,360 crazy for a 40, 40, uh, like we can fit 40 people at one sitting, you know what I mean? And for three 263 00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:05,840 people to do 40 covers and half of them are doing tasting menu, six courses plus the regular menu, 264 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,880 it was just insane. Like it was just, but that was most of my time there. It was just most of my time 265 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:16,160 there was that, you know, it was just, it was wild, but it gave me lots of opportunities to be creative, 266 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:21,200 try different things. Uh, nothing. It was just, it was, it was a really good experience. 267 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:28,160 Nice, nice, nice. And from then you flew directly to the Basque country or, or did you work somewhere 268 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,720 else in the South? So I had to go a little back and forth between the United States and Argentina 269 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:36,800 because I had some like family members that were sick, but, um, there was a, it was actually 270 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:41,440 interesting because it was a short period in, uh, in that time period where I was helping a friend 271 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,320 that opened a restaurant in Florida. They opened up a Spanish restaurant in Jacksonville, Florida, 272 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:51,920 where there's no Spanish restaurants and, uh, actually helped. Like I was there with him after 273 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,280 he opened it up like a month after and I started working. I worked there for like six months 274 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:02,080 before coming to Spain. Okay. And did you work here in Spain and some restaurants or you went 275 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:07,520 directly to the, to BCC? No, I tried, but I mean, that took, it was a long process for getting my 276 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,440 residency here as well. They didn't like your Argentinian accent. Like no, you... 277 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,360 Most of the time, yeah. I know. I mean, to be honest, yeah, everybody can tell. And a lot of 278 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:19,520 times I can pass as, uh, people think I'm actually Argentinian when I speak Spanish. So... That's 279 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:24,000 very funny. Like an American talking Spanish with Argentinian accent. Yeah. I mean, everybody 280 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,840 last month, when they find out, when they find out, it catches people off guard because they 281 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,360 usually have the guard down. But I'm talking about like if I'm speaking with other Argentinians, 282 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:36,320 they have the guard down. And then when they find out or they figure out that I'm actually American 283 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,800 or from the United States or there, they completely like blown away and you can see the change on 284 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:45,440 their face. Kind of like you, you tricked me and I never said I was Argentinian. You know, like I 285 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:51,840 just, I just spoke to you. That's it. And how has it been arriving at the Basque country? I mean, 286 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:57,280 the foot here is one of my favorite regions in the world. Like at least San Sebastian is a city 287 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:05,280 where it's hard to get a bad meal. You know, like the average quality is very high and, uh, 288 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,920 and there are so many amazing places like unpretentious bar where you walk in and you 289 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,160 have something amazing. Like, what are your impressions? Yeah. I mean, like you said, 290 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:19,040 it's hard to get a, it's hard to get a bad meal. Um, to be honest before living in Argentina, 291 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,720 I didn't really know much about Basque country. I mean, that was like the whole wave that was 292 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:27,440 starting to grow with like Hispanic cuisine. You know what I mean? Like in early 2000s and stuff 293 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,400 like that, I knew some stuff, you know, but to be honest, I learned a lot about Basque country 294 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:38,160 from living in Argentina simply because so many of the high, like the, the more prolific chefs 295 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:44,720 in Argentina, most of them studied or did like internships or there's a big connection between 296 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,920 San Sebastian and Argentina because a lot of them look towards San Sebastian as like, uh, 297 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:56,880 as like a reference point. Yeah. I, I started, I started at Mugari in 2005 and I would say 298 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,880 at least half of the study years were Argentinians. Yeah. They had, they had, they had like, 299 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,440 their reference point is like Spain, but specifically this region. So I started looking into it mostly 300 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:12,320 because I, when I would hear from people there and, uh, but then my wife was kind of doing some 301 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:17,840 research and decided on San Sebastian because of whatever reasons there were, but astronomically, 302 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,880 it would be interesting to me. And to be honest, it's like, I don't even know, like when people 303 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:28,400 asked me to categorize, like Basque food, for example, or Basque cuisine and stuff like that, 304 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,560 like it's kind of hard to like pigeonhole, you know, it's hard to like categorize it. 305 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,880 You can give an explanation or at least for me up until this point, I'm not able to like 306 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,440 give like, uh, like if someone would be like, what, what is something they always use? 307 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:46,960 Yeah. Like I do have like some, I do have some, yeah, I would say that they never really 308 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,120 go too crazy with ingredients. Yeah. They look at you crazy if you have more than four stuff, 309 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:54,720 more than four things to look at you like, what are you doing? Yeah, exactly. Bay leaf is already 310 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,200 exotic and not to talk about coriander, forget about it. That's already extra special, you know, 311 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:05,920 like, and then everything is only salt, very produce driven, uh, very respectful towards the 312 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,560 produce and nothing is over cooked. Everything is on the right point. Everything is very sensible. 313 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:16,880 It's very sensible. The, the, also the salt level is low. Uh, the, the very sensitive towards texture, 314 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:22,320 like gelatinosity, something like that. We really look forward and sauces and meats and this kind 315 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:27,520 of thing. Uh, but yeah, as you say, never more than four or five ingredients. Uh, I would say 316 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:33,440 those are some of the key features of Basque cuisine. Yeah. It's just like when you try to like, 317 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,880 you can try to categorize something a little bit more like, or define something a lot finer. 318 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:44,160 It's, I don't know, like somebody asks you about a certain region of India or China or Thailand 319 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:49,040 or Mexico scene that you can give things. But like when people think of Spanish cuisine, 320 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,680 you know what I mean? Like they tend to like have more, I guess more from an American's perspective, 321 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,840 like, I don't know, they try to categorize it in a certain way, but then like Basque cuisine is kind 322 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:04,160 of like, it doesn't really fall into that same category or at least what most people would think. 323 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:10,560 Yeah. It's just something. And I would even say that, uh, San Sebastian cuisine is its own thing 324 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:19,520 compared to Bilbao and Biscay. That's something different. Uh, both the way of the people and the 325 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:25,120 way of the cooking and eating. I mean, it's very unique. That's for sure. I mean, it's always 326 00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:30,080 interesting to see how like places that live near the coast, how they, how they differ, you know, 327 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:35,200 and like I was living near the coast and in my left in Argentina. And to be honest with you, 328 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:41,280 like Argentina is a neat country, a hundred percent. Uh, they don't very much, they don't 329 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:48,080 really value fish and seafood for as much as they're surrounded by the ocean. Um, but here it's kind 330 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:54,560 of like, it's normal. It's like integrated mostly into like cuisine and stuff like that. You don't 331 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:59,280 hear like people complain, like, I don't like fish or I don't like seafood. Obviously those people 332 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:04,800 exist, but it's not kind of like, I don't know. That's not, it's not, it's interesting to contrast 333 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:13,760 the two things. Now you work as a research chef and a culinary lab. How, how has the transition been 334 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:19,760 and this change of way of working and cooking, what would you say are the main differences and 335 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:25,280 what would you tell someone who would like to have a position like that? I mean, the transition is 336 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:33,600 ongoing to be honest. Um, getting into this or seeing the job posting, I honestly didn't know 337 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,440 what I was getting into for as much as I had a description. Uh, I just see it, just thought it 338 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:43,840 seemed interesting, you know? And, uh, I mean, I had like, uh, a moment too, when I got here, 339 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:49,360 I kind of like, what do I want my, my life to be in like working, like my work life to be, 340 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:55,760 do I want to get back into that, that cycle of working long hours, you know, being tired all the 341 00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:01,280 time and, uh, just working constantly. And I mean, the transition, like I said, it's ongoing. Uh, 342 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:06,400 what's nice about it though is like, it is basically all the experience that I have up to 343 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:12,720 this point, applying it towards something a little bit more ambiguous, I'm big, like ambiguous, you 344 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:18,320 know, all kind of like, I don't know, something you're using your experience at the intellectual 345 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:23,680 level as well, because, uh, you're working on a culinary lab because of what's inside your mind, 346 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:28,960 right? Like that's basically your, your, I don't know, you're kind of like simulating things a lot 347 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:34,080 of times too, instead of actually physically doing it. But it's, it's interesting. Like one of the, 348 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,880 the first things too, like I add to like, I'm still trying to like accustomed to is like the change in 349 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:43,440 pace, you know, like working at restaurants and stuff like that, you're just expected to constantly 350 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:52,480 be producing it, working and constantly all on 120%. Whereas like, I mean, obviously things change 351 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:57,280 throughout the year, but, uh, like it's a little bit, the workflow is a little bit different, 352 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:04,080 you know, and, uh, you don't necessarily get in that, that rush constantly and you're not expecting, 353 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:12,000 you don't see the result as quickly as you would in a restaurant. You know what I mean? Like if 354 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,000 you're doing something in a restaurant, it's like you, every time you're always looking like five 355 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,640 minutes ahead, two minutes ahead, you know, and you're always looking at things in 30 second bites. 356 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:25,840 Whereas like in this job, you have to like, you have to look at the bigger picture and then once 357 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:32,400 in a while, like a snapshot of shorter periods, it's just a change in rhythm perspective. And 358 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:38,800 I don't know, it's just, it's completely different, but it's interesting and it's a good way to like 359 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:46,640 apply past experience towards something that's actually changes or can change things outside of 360 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,840 a restaurant, which is kind of like its own world. You know what I mean? Like this job now, you can 361 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:58,560 actually have more influence over or more, uh, it's not influence. It sounds a little too 362 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:08,560 controlling, but, uh, you can have more opportunities to change things at a larger scale.