1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,600 Hi everyone. 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,800 Welcome to potluck food talks. 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:14,320 I'm Eric and I'm here with my man, Gil Walter, and we're going to talk about pursuit of excellence 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,520 and cooking and the culinary worlds. 5 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:23,160 Eric, what's the first thing you think about when you hear that expression? 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,440 I'm, I don't know. 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:35,920 I think it is the, the really kind of that sentiment that I feel is very unique to our 8 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:37,280 profession. 9 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:42,040 And it's definitely one of the biggest reasons why I started cooking in the first place. 10 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,120 I wanted to, like I've spoken to Xander about it before. 11 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:51,320 I wanted to do something where I could strive to be a little bit better every day. 12 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:56,900 And yeah, and I spent most of my career doing that sometimes in a very unhealthy way. 13 00:00:56,900 --> 00:00:59,240 And sometimes in a really, really fulfilling way. 14 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:04,880 Actually, I think it's one of the things that makes this job what it is and why people want 15 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:06,320 to do it. 16 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:11,060 Is this constant delving into what you're doing. 17 00:01:11,060 --> 00:01:12,060 For me it comes to mind. 18 00:01:12,060 --> 00:01:17,480 Well, there, there is this book from Charlie Trotter is called lessons in excellence, which 19 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:18,480 I recommend very much. 20 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,840 He has lessons in excellence, lessons in service and lessons in wine service. 21 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:29,280 The last one I didn't read, but I don't remember in which one of them he says that he looks 22 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:34,840 for people that have a religious approach to work. 23 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:35,840 Okay. 24 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:41,920 And, and that also brings to me when I listened to the episode where Xander interviews you 25 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:49,040 and you're telling about how you started cooking and you said that Buddhism and Zen philosophy 26 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:56,280 really caught your attention and you saw something about it and cooking because everything was 27 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,680 so like volatile that you cook something and then it's gone. 28 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:01,680 And I don't know. 29 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:07,000 I think like all of these things are like, like puzzle pieces of a larger picture when 30 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,200 we talk about this. 31 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,440 Yeah, no, absolutely. 32 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:16,000 And I think it's almost like when you meet people that have the same passion and that 33 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:20,560 see the same beauty in what you're doing. 34 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:27,720 It's almost like you meet a brother from another mother, you know, it's almost like you, you 35 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:33,520 meet somebody from like a secret cult because there's people that cook and that's totally 36 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:34,520 fine. 37 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:39,960 You know, I'm cooking for feeding people is a very noble pursuit, but you know, you have 38 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:44,120 that in every, in everything, you know, you have people who make music and they can play 39 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:48,360 an instrument pretty well and then you have people that seal it, you know, that really 40 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,720 seal it with their whole being. 41 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,120 And it's just a little bit different. 42 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,960 And when you come across people like that, it's very inspiring. 43 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:55,960 Yeah. 44 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:02,520 And I guess it has also to do when, when you see something properly executed, you know, 45 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,680 it's like an aesthetic experience, right? 46 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,240 You enjoy the beauty of it. 47 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:13,240 It's like, yeah, nice, you know, like, you know, and if it's not, it's that opposite 48 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:14,240 like fucking bullshit. 49 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:15,680 I hate this shit. 50 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,120 You know, I don't want to see this like this. 51 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:25,200 And that's why chefs are such maniacs because you get this emotional contrast of beauty 52 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,920 and ugliness in your work. 53 00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:32,880 If something is not beautiful, then it's ugly and you don't want it to be ugly. 54 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:34,680 Yeah, totally. 55 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,080 No, absolutely. 56 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,080 Absolutely right. 57 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:43,640 It just reminds me of a conversation I had with somebody that I worked with not too long 58 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:50,120 ago that I was trying to explain to how it feels like if you have a really bad service. 59 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,960 And she was kind of like, well, you know, but like bad days happen and like you have 60 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:56,560 to be able to go home and switch off. 61 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:57,800 And I was like, no, you don't understand. 62 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,080 Like, of course, like you're right. 63 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:05,640 But the feeling that I have when, when a service goes bad and you send things out that you 64 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,080 don't feel all right, it crushes me. 65 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:09,520 It really, really crushes me. 66 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:14,760 It's like, like, like if you're a surgeon and somebody died in your operation table, 67 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:21,680 you know, like it's like that you, you, you, you have your shoulders for at least a few 68 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,040 days. 69 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,920 That's an intense comparison, man. 70 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:28,920 But you're right. 71 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:29,960 It does feel like that. 72 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,040 And I guess that's just, that's, that's just what comes with being really passionate about 73 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:34,040 something. 74 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:39,400 I don't know, for me, it was never about sort of like, you know, this feeling of this feeling 75 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,880 of failure that you have. 76 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:49,320 It was never about anything else but me, you know, like I feel like I let myself down and 77 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:55,120 I, I felt like where did all my time and effort go? 78 00:04:55,120 --> 00:05:00,920 If it resulted in this all day long, I'm trying to chase, I'm trying to chase the dragon and 79 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:09,000 try to, you know, make my deadline and, and then I get there and it gets fucked up. 80 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,040 And then, right, other people are involved also, right? 81 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:18,000 Sometimes you fuck up, sometimes other people fuck up and then all your hard work results 82 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:23,200 in something that's mediocre because of other people, which then becomes a really difficult 83 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:24,200 situation. 84 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:25,560 Also, how do you deal with that? 85 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:26,560 Right? 86 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,880 Because it's one thing if you shift the party and you work with other people, it can be 87 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,480 like, oh fuck, you know. 88 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:35,360 On my side, the social, the fish was perfect, the sauce was perfect, blah, blah, blah. 89 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,280 But the ultimately fucked up the garnish. 90 00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:40,480 So fuck that guy, right? 91 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:46,380 But if you're, you know, a sous chef or a head chef, it's your responsibility to keep 92 00:05:46,380 --> 00:05:47,380 everybody together. 93 00:05:47,380 --> 00:05:51,460 So if somebody fucks up, of course it's, you know, their problem, but also what could you 94 00:05:51,460 --> 00:05:53,560 have done to improve that? 95 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,960 It's a, it's a very complex scenario. 96 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:03,480 I also think about repetition, you know, like if you, if you think about the person of excellence, 97 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:09,120 repetition is like an absolute concept that is binded to it, you know? 98 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:10,120 Yeah. 99 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:16,800 Because doing the same thing every day and enjoying the beauty of it every time and not 100 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:21,520 only every day, but many times a day, you know, like every time, like a very beautiful 101 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:22,520 plate. 102 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:29,440 So I think I am working in restaurants for a while, but I remember resetting your mind, 103 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:33,800 you know, like every time you have the same plate again and you need to start doing the 104 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:40,200 same thing again, learning how to look at it as if you were doing it for the first time 105 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:47,880 and learning how to cook or plate as if it was for your most beloved one person. 106 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:56,400 Like having that kind of resetting and having a blank mind when you're doing this kind of 107 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:57,400 things. 108 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:03,800 It was also key for me to keep that mood, you know, like ongoing. 109 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,760 I think what you said there is such a beautiful like way of thinking about it. 110 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:14,280 It's like, you know, seeing the beauty in the stuff every day and multiple times a day. 111 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:20,280 If you manage to do that, and if you practice that, because it's a practice, right? 112 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:25,320 Unless you're like a very, you know, special sort of person, then you have to practice 113 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:26,320 that. 114 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:27,520 You have to get yourself into that mode. 115 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:32,080 And then you can take that even further where you try to see the beauty in all the things 116 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:33,420 that you're doing. 117 00:07:33,420 --> 00:07:37,240 If it's peeling a mushroom, you know, if it's, you know, peeling the apple, if it's making 118 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:44,920 a potato puree, if, you know, it's cleaning the fish, you know, like simple things, picking 119 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:52,360 herbs, you can step back and enjoy the beauty and the enjoyment of what you're doing. 120 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:58,080 And also in trying to do it excellently in every single thing that you're doing. 121 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,960 And that is where I feel like the religious aspect comes in. 122 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:05,880 If you approach it religiously, because that's, you know, like what I'm saying is not easily 123 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:11,960 done, I would say, but if you manage to do that, how incredibly fulfilling that must 124 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,880 be, you know, and sometimes, sometimes we manage to do that. 125 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:20,000 And I 100% believe that the end result of what we're doing, of the work that we're 126 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,760 doing, is then impacted in such a positive way. 127 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,280 And that's obviously, we're all human and we can't always do this because we have bad 128 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:32,400 days and somebody, some crackhead shouted at us on the train on our way to work. 129 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,240 And you know, I don't know. 130 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:43,600 I think it's also key like to have like a proper environment to develop this talent 131 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:49,360 and this approach to cooking is that the whole kitchen has to be designed for something like 132 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:50,360 that. 133 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:58,160 You know, if you're like you're saying peeling some baby carrots really carefully, and then 134 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:03,680 I don't know, like you have a ticket with a room service and the owner of the restaurant 135 00:09:03,680 --> 00:09:07,640 comes in and asks you to do something that has nothing to do with your job. 136 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,800 And then the whole thing becomes a mess. 137 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:17,720 It's just counterproductive for everything, you know, like not just for your mental health, 138 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:22,800 but also for the quality of the restaurant, also for the whole team working as an engine, 139 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,400 like for many, many things. 140 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,480 I think that that's something that has to be taken into consideration from the very 141 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:33,120 beginning, from the very foundational conceptualization of a place. 142 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:34,480 That's very, very true. 143 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,720 I think so many people forget that. 144 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:46,760 So many people who run restaurants and operate restaurants, not going to say any names, they 145 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:48,560 forget that and they don't understand that. 146 00:09:48,560 --> 00:09:53,160 And they think like, hey, we can just, it's fine, right? 147 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:54,160 Like it's okay. 148 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:55,680 You can just do this quick room service ticket. 149 00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:56,800 And it's like, yeah, yeah, sure. 150 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:57,800 I can. 151 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:58,800 And yeah, it's okay. 152 00:09:58,800 --> 00:09:59,800 We just do this. 153 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:00,800 It's okay. 154 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:01,800 We just do that. 155 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:02,800 It's okay. 156 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:03,800 We can do that. 157 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,200 If you just do it one hour earlier, it's like, yeah, what's an hour? 158 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:07,480 What's an hour? 159 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,560 An hour is a lot, you know? 160 00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:13,160 And things need to, we need to set things into motion. 161 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:15,040 We really need to think about what are the steps we want? 162 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,440 Do we want more or do we want better? 163 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:18,440 Yeah. 164 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:23,720 And also, do you want to have like a super large rotation of staff? 165 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:28,440 People coming and leaving every three months or do you want people to stay for years working 166 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:29,440 for you? 167 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:36,800 I say like, if you have that as a goal from the very beginning, then you need to think 168 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,640 differently of all of these things where we're just saying, you know, like if you want people 169 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,320 to stay for a few years working with you. 170 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:45,560 Absolutely. 171 00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:49,680 One person that I think of when it comes to pursuit of excellence is somebody that I've 172 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:52,320 not worked with. 173 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,840 But I've been following him for a long time and he's recently got his third mission in 174 00:10:55,840 --> 00:11:02,680 star as we talked about him earlier, Daniel Calvert from Cezanne in Tokyo. 175 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:09,280 That for me is really like, I've been following this guy since he was in Hong Kong. 176 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:14,760 He had one star at a restaurant called Bellon where he was doing like fairly classic French 177 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:20,260 cooking with, you know, like a lot of like local influence, like he was making like drunk 178 00:11:20,260 --> 00:11:23,160 and chicken and stuff like that. 179 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:28,280 And he then moved on to Tokyo, opened Cezanne straight away, got two mission in stars and 180 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,120 now he's got his third one. 181 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,840 And that is really a kitchen where, you know, like per se and you know, the French laundry 182 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:42,560 and Cezanne and Benue, all these kitchens where you kind of look at the way they work. 183 00:11:42,560 --> 00:11:47,880 11 Madison Park and you sort of like, yeah, they're really in pursuit of excellence there. 184 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,680 They have a culture. 185 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:52,040 They have a religious approach. 186 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:56,960 They show up every day and they just do their thing. 187 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:02,200 And like a knife on a sharpening stone, it gets refined, refined, refined, refined until 188 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:03,200 it's laser sharp. 189 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:10,080 I can think of this book from Elias Fromm called The Art of Loving. 190 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:16,400 He was like a psychologist from the 60s, like German Jewish American. 191 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:23,160 And I remember I read that book when I was a teenager and I could summarize it and like, 192 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:31,240 well, the way he approaches the concept of love is that he says that love is something 193 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:39,160 is a practice and something that you have to train and to do proactively towards things. 194 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:45,040 It could be a person, it could be cooking, you know, it could be anything. 195 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,160 And he says it has like four elements. 196 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:55,640 And if you apply those four elements into something, then you are basically loving it 197 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,720 and that thing will somehow reward you for it. 198 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:00,720 Okay. 199 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:06,040 And these things are care, knowledge, respect, and responsibility. 200 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,020 Like the combination of those four. 201 00:13:08,020 --> 00:13:15,440 If you apply this to learning how to cook better or cooking better, like executing a 202 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:23,120 specific dish or I don't know, running a restaurant or serving a table, then that thing will reward 203 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:25,640 you like, you know. 204 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,520 That's really beautiful, man. 205 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,560 And I can totally relate to that. 206 00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:31,600 I can absolutely relate to that. 207 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:36,120 I really love the fact like loving is something that you have to do proactively. 208 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,480 I think that's super true. 209 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:44,120 And that's kind of how you should approach cooking also, you know, proactively and proactively 210 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,920 also looking for the beauty in it and loving it. 211 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:52,520 I've been watching this show that's called La Grande Mezzo Tokyo. 212 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,040 It's on Netflix also. 213 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:58,200 And that is also a show that is about the pursuit of excellence in a really beautiful 214 00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:59,200 way. 215 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:00,200 Have you seen it? 216 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,760 No, I haven't seen cook shows lately, but I've heard like this one. 217 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,600 And there is also like a Korean show also on Netflix. 218 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,960 I've heard very good comments about it. 219 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:14,520 Yeah, they're both really good culinary wars, I think you mean. 220 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,200 They're both really, really good. 221 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:17,200 They're both very different. 222 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,320 So this La Grande Mezzo Tokyo, it's like a Japanese telenovela. 223 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,840 And just to kind of break the story down, it's about a Japanese chef in Paris who has 224 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,780 two mission stars and he gets disgraced. 225 00:14:28,780 --> 00:14:30,960 So he basically poisons the customer. 226 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:32,440 Nobody wants to hire him. 227 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:33,640 Jump to three years later. 228 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:40,000 He's like basically living on the streets and he meets this like middle aged woman who 229 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,480 takes him back to Tokyo and wants to open a restaurant with him. 230 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:44,200 He's a very difficult character. 231 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:49,680 And so they open this restaurant and they want to get three mission stars. 232 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,440 So I started watching the show and I thought it was going to be like very lighthearted. 233 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,840 And then the more I watched the show, the more I got hooked. 234 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:05,920 And the more you saw about the cooking, the more I realized that whoever was advising 235 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:12,120 them on the food had a really intricate and deep understanding of cooking. 236 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:13,640 And I watched the whole show. 237 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,280 It's only like 11 episodes. 238 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,080 And I was like, man, the show is so fucking good, especially in the end. 239 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,360 It gets really good, especially like cooking wise. 240 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,380 There's dishes in there where you're like, man, that's so smart, you know. 241 00:15:25,380 --> 00:15:29,000 And then after I watched it, I started watching it again because I wanted to watch it second 242 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:34,320 time and I made a little bit of research and I realized that the two main restaurants in 243 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:41,720 the show, one is like very modern Japanese and the other one is like very kind of old 244 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:47,480 schooly modern French with Japanese ingredients. 245 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:52,000 The French restaurant, it was all the dishes that they serve. 246 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,920 For most of them, the dishes from quintessence in Tokyo. 247 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:56,920 Okay. 248 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:57,920 Yeah. 249 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:03,480 Like if you say that the dishes are clever, there is probably like a good consultant behind 250 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:04,480 it. 251 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:05,480 100%. 252 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:10,600 I mean, quintessence in Tokyo is, you know, arguably the most infamous famous three mission 253 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,800 star Japanese French restaurant in Japan. 254 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:22,040 And there are such sort of like really like finely tuned dishes in there with like little 255 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,520 bit simple, but they have these twists and these techniques where you're like, oh my 256 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,480 God, if I think about it, it's so smart. 257 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:36,040 And yeah, that is also a really beautiful show where they, you know, in the previous 258 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:40,640 episodes we talked about the 10 commandments from the Vel Poussin, the sort of like, yeah, 259 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:45,320 thou shalt not be, what was it, systematically modernist. 260 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:46,320 Right. 261 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:47,640 And they do exactly that. 262 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:53,600 They sort of, they stay away from technique and they really delve into the experience 263 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,480 that the people have when eating the food. 264 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:01,640 And I thought it was a really, really beautiful showcase of the pursuit of excellence. 265 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:06,400 I was looking, you just mentioned this is grace chef that poisoned someone. 266 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:07,840 Did you read the news? 267 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:08,840 Like this happened? 268 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:15,840 I think just a few days ago or last week, the latest where some, there was like an infection 269 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,520 in McDonald's in the States and someone died. 270 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,440 And also like also in Victoria here in Spain. 271 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:30,640 Well, that was, was for Collie, you know, this infection that happens with meat sometimes. 272 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:31,640 Yeah. 273 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:32,640 Yeah. 274 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:38,200 And here in Victoria is, and I was reading this article that they published at El País, 275 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:45,480 like a local newspaper talking about why, why it's, is it risky to eat medium rare burgers? 276 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:51,880 You know, because if you eat like a steak, the, these bacterias, they're on the surface 277 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,400 and they get immediately killed when, when you grill them. 278 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:56,400 Yep. 279 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,600 But of course, if you grind the meat, then you mix the whole thing and the bacterias 280 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,160 will be inside. 281 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,900 And if you keep the draw, they might survive. 282 00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:12,680 And the risk of, of getting poisoned by medium rare burgers is 30 times higher than if they're 283 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:13,680 not. 284 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:14,680 That's crazy. 285 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:15,680 And I love eating raw burgers. 286 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:16,680 You know, like, 287 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:17,680 Me too. 288 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:18,680 I like both actually. 289 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:19,680 I like the medium raw burger. 290 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:24,680 I like the smash burger, you know? 291 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:25,680 Yeah. 292 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:32,400 I mean, like what people forget with minced meat is that the surface area of the meat 293 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:37,880 becomes like times a million, you know, because you cut it up and it's like, you have small 294 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:43,720 particles of meat that all have a surface area, you know, it's not like closed. 295 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,640 So the bacteria can spread on the surface of this meat. 296 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,160 And it's, it's really, really intense. 297 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:50,840 I mean, what's a good alternative? 298 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,040 Steak sandwich? 299 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:58,640 I guess a smash burger is a good alternative or sando sandwiches. 300 00:18:58,640 --> 00:18:59,640 Sando sandwiches. 301 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:08,360 You know, I actually read an article just a few days ago that was saying that actually 302 00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:13,840 it makes sense to not serve burgers medium rare because, and the title of the article 303 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:21,240 was sort of like, a burger is so juicy, you have to cook it beyond medium so that all 304 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,680 the like moisture gets trapped, right? 305 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,960 Outside of the burger, which I guess makes sense, but a medium rare burger is just very, 306 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:30,960 very delicious. 307 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:37,840 I had a very good burger yesterday and this place in Barcelona called Visio. 308 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,560 It's like a burger place that is becoming trendy. 309 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:47,720 And it's funny, it was a cheeseburger with truffle sauce and the truffle sauce was nice. 310 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:55,040 But it's funny this place because it's all like, like a sexualized place, you know, like 311 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,920 with red lights, it's called Visio. 312 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:04,200 Then when you walk in, there is like this sign that says, you're going to get your thing, 313 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:10,680 you know, like, and then when you're reading that, like the descriptions of the, like in 314 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:18,480 the recipe and I know like in the receipt, in the ticket, it says like, this burger is 315 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,840 like a satisfied, butter is not included. 316 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:29,120 It's like that, you know, like we did sex messages around everywhere. 317 00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:31,040 You know, like it was very funny. 318 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:36,120 That's really funny. 319 00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:39,180 That's it for this week's episode of potluck food talks. 320 00:20:39,180 --> 00:20:43,040 If you like what we're doing, make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss 321 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:44,300 an episode. 322 00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:48,300 You can also find us on Instagram and Tik Tok as potluck food talks. 323 00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:52,680 The show airs every Monday.