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Hi everyone, welcome to Potluck Food Talks.

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I'm here with aka PillPill Walter and we're going to talk today about probably the most

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influential movement in Western culinary of the 20th century.

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Like everything somehow evolved from that initial movement, which was the Nouvelle Cuisine.

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What are your thoughts on Nouvelle Cuisine?

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First of all, if I was going to be related to a sauce, I don't know whether PillPill

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would be my first choice.

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If you were a sauce, if you had to be a sauce, what sauce would you be?

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Salza verde.

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Basque salza verde.

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Oh wow, that came out quick, like you thought of it already.

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I feel like I would have to think of it for a little bit.

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Nah, I have it pretty clear, it's my favorite sauce in the world.

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Basque salza verde has nothing to do with Italian salza verde or Mexican salza verde.

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It means green sauce, that's why they all share the same name.

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It's just like an emulsion of parsley, garlic and the collagen of the fish.

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With olive oil sometimes it has, well in fish stock, sometimes white wine is added, but

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for me the most basic version is the best one.

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That's very nice.

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Yeah, so Novell Cuisine, I feel like Novell Cuisine gets a little bit overshadowed by

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other culinary movements like the Spanish Avant-Garde and the New Nordic and stuff.

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But what people don't understand is that all that was made possible by the Novell Cuisine

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movement, which kind of was like a first breaking free from old cooking habits, where everything

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was made a little bit lighter, a little bit fresher, maybe even a little bit more seasonal

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wouldn't you say, because there was more of an emphasis on vegetables, less meat, less

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fats, less sort of like old, you know, King's Court sort of banquet style feasting.

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Yeah, that's exactly right.

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The approach to fine dining up to that point was very aristocratic oriented.

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Well, I mean, fine dining is always like some luxury.

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But then it was very much about abundance, about having this lots of amounts of food

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and food waste and table servings with heavy sauces that you would get served on the table.

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And it was always too much and it was a table full of food and it would be pretty much like

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that.

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So they also like, I guess for business reasons, also for respect for produce, they started

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like to standardize new methodologies for restaurants, things like plating a plate that

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you get to your table, a plate that is pre-plated in the kitchen or that is part of a tasting

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menu that and that all of this work as a larger composition that has a specific order, having

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wine pairings, also business innovations like having wine by the glass.

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But yeah, like philosophically is what you were just saying, things became lighter and

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not so much heavy sauces.

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And I would say also something very important is chefs became more audacious when it comes

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to creativity, that they would make combinations that you wouldn't normally see like, I don't

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know, like a black tea soba or using Chinese or Indian ingredients to put them in French

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cooking in very subtle ways, not like in a fusion way, but just like little accents

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of things from other cultures.

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And there were also subcategories of New York cuisine.

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For example, Michel Girard has this, I think it's pronounced Mansour, I don't know.

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That is also like a lighter way of cooking a different approach to vegetables.

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So and also working closer with producers asking for specific sizes of vegetables or

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for these restaurants.

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So it was quite groundbreaking.

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And, and like you say, all of the other movements like the Nordic, the Spanish avant garde and

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the new bus cuisine, just to name a few, derived from that original one for sure.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I mean, just by shifting the importance that you put to say, vegetables, right, which is

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only an aspect of the nouvelle cuisine, it's kind of like, well, let's even if we just

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change the ratio, because it used to be like very meat heavy, very sauce heavy, then carbs

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and then maybe a little bit of vegetables.

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But even just shifting the amount of importance that you put to vegetables then open the door

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for you to say, well, if it's going to be a bigger part of my meal, then it should be

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cared for more and should be thought out more and then it develops further and further and

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further until people, you know, really dive into that.

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For me also, that's already beyond nouvelle cuisine, I would say, you know, but like a

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lot of people underestimate people, chefs like Michel Bras, with his influence on the

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real sort of new avant-garde movement, where if you look at Michel Bras cooking, it evolved

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from like a sort of like country style, Auvergne, French cooking style, where he would take

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countryside dishes and put them into a context where they would fit the fine dining scenario.

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Then refining and refining them really delving into his region and getting more into sort

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of like the regional produce and refining that more and more and more.

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And I mean, Ferran Adria was inspired by his so incredibly famous Gargouille, René Renzepi,

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likewise, it was like this first step of a domino effect that rippled through gastronomy

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and then just kept evolving it into a certain direction.

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So the reason we decided to make this episode is because we found this deck a lot less that

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I remember having read this when I was in culinary school, but I haven't seen this

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list like in 20 years at least.

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And to find it now again, it's very, very interesting.

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This was written in 1973 by Gold and Millau, for people who don't know Gold and Millau,

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or Gold Millau was the alternative or is still like an alternative guy to Michelin.

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And especially in France, and especially during those years, they were equal rivals, Michelin

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and Gold Millau.

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Yeah.

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Gold Millau works with points up to 20 points, 20 is the maximum, only few chefs have achieved

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20 points.

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If you have 19 points, it's already like having three Michelin stars.

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And yeah, like the original culinary critics of this guide, they wrote this, the 10 commandments

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of nouvelle cuisine, and we wanted to review them to see how they aged because they're

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quite interesting.

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And some of them apply still today.

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Some didn't age so well.

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So let's have a look at that.

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Yeah.

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I mean, like I, when you sent this through, I've never seen this at all, like ever.

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Okay.

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It was the first time and I thought it was so interesting because a lot of the points

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still hold up pretty, really well.

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All of the points I thought like were really kind of, some were funny and some I was like,

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man, that's really, really true.

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And yeah, yeah, Gourmet Eau was a big deal.

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Now not so much anymore, no?

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But like, I remember we used to always like check, what did Hoffman had?

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He had like 16 or 17 in the Gourmet Eau or something, right?

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I'm not sure.

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By the way, dude, like just a few days ago, I gave a tour to a German couple and at the

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end they asked me, yeah, where did you work in Germany?

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And I said with Michel Hoffman, really?

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That's my favorite chef.

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Hey.

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I wrote him a letter once asking for a recipe and he very kindly answered and explained

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me how to do this and that.

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He very kindly replied saying I couldn't have the recipe.

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So let's start with this.

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Rule number one, thou shalt not overcook.

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Thou shalt not overcook.

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I love how they wrote it, like it's some sort of Bible verse, like written in gravid stone

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or something.

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Thou shalt not overcook.

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Yeah.

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Well, I mean, well, this is something that also was introduced in professional cooking

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in the West by this movement.

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Up until then, you know, carrots would be cooked until they were puree and the green

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vegetables until they were gray.

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And this is again, something that I say that was taken borrowed from other cultures like

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Chinese that they already knew how to quickly blanch vegetables.

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And this was now, this is a standard in any professional restaurants, French oriented.

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You will see that this is the way that vegetables are cooked.

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Yeah, these vegetables.

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Absolutely.

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But also, for example, fish is also something you don't want to overcook or seafood in general,

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you know, like anything.

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Yeah.

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Which used to happen a lot, which used to happen a lot.

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I mean, like I just saw a video the other day.

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I mean, have you seen the chef's table from about Trois Gros?

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No, no, I haven't.

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You should watch it.

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It's really good.

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And he shows.

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By the way, the Trois Gros brothers were also key figures in the nouvelle cuisine movement.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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So he talks about his salmon with sorrel sauce in the show, which is like a classic of the

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Trois Gros.

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Was it trout or salmon?

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Did I say trout?

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No, you said salmon.

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Salmon.

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It's salmon.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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No, I was out in because okay.

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Yeah, I mean, interchangeable, I guess.

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But yeah.

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And so he shows the dish.

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And I thought that when he shows it, it's very, it's a very interesting dish, the way

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that he cooks it, the way that he explains it, and the way that he plays it.

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It's very good.

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It's very well executed.

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And I saw it and I was like, it makes sense to me.

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Also, it's an interesting way of cooking fish.

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If you haven't seen the show, please go watch it.

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Is it on Netflix?

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Yeah, right.

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It's on Netflix.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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But then I saw an old video of the two brothers cooking the dish and it looked nothing like

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that dish because you see the fish is completely like manhandled and really cooked a lot for

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further is the way that he shows it in the episode, which is his modern interpretation.

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It's very clean, very carefully cooked.

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So the center is still pink.

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The fish is flaking apart.

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It's cut in an interesting way.

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It's well executed.

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And when you see the old version, it's a little bit rough.

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And you can definitely see that the fish is cooked a lot further than it would be now.

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I recently interviewed for Basque Culinary Center.

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I thought I'd ready from Elcano.

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Yeah.

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And we were talking about how have traditional ways of cooking evolved in the last decades?

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Because as you say, you see dishes that are traditional, but these dishes are not the

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same 50 years ago as they are today.

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And in the case of fish, for example, the expression he uses is stripped away from unnecessary

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things.

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This, you know, this Donostia style of cooking fish where you have this hot oil with garlic

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on top of the end of cooking.

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He says that used to have like a lot of more things back in the days that like used to

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to hide the bad quality of the fish.

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But it was stripped until you end up only with garlic and something else.

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But yeah, those fishes were overcooked.

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Like pil pil, like if you see videos from the 50s of pil pil was something completely

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different.

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Like squid in black ink that was way more cooked just 20 years ago than it is today.

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So the traditional recipes also evolved during time.

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Yeah, it's very interesting to see this like progression evolve sort of like this in first

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kind of step and then how it kind of like goes further and further and further.

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It's really interesting to look at culinary history like that.

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So rule number two, thou shalt use fresh quality products.

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Yeah, well, super, super common sense, right?

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Yeah, pretty self explanatory.

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But I mean, like today it's common sense.

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Maybe, you know, we're talking about this was a movement that started in the 60s and

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this was written in 1973 to compile the philosophy and the school of thought of this movement.

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Yeah, and I also think it's just a little bit of a, you know, it's, it's kind of an

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emphasis and it shows that because this was written 13 years after the movement started,

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that is one of the most important things is to produce.

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And I mean, that is still something that is rippling through today, which, you know, it's

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not the most important thing is not the meat and sauce, you know, because the meat, okay,

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you can get into detail there, but the meat is seasonally changing also, but not as much

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as vegetables and herbs and fruits and all that sort of stuff.

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So that became much more important, right?

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That all the vegetables are fresh and expression, you know, nature.

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So rule number four, three, three, sorry.

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Thou shalt lighten thy menu.

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Thou shalt lighten thy menu.

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Yeah.

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And that's also something, you know, that we see more and more and more, you know, that

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was one of the main things now that they wanted to get away from all those like mega heavy

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sauces and the super richness and that you feel absolutely crushed after eating a, a

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multi-course meal.

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Exactly.

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I think that that's the key.

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Like you as a chef, you have to measure the right amount of food you have to deliver.

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And if people at the end of the meal, they ate their dessert and they're like, oh, I'm

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too full, I ate too much.

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You didn't did your job right.

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In my opinion.

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Yeah.

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People should be like, yes, full, but good, you know, like not, not like feeling over

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eaten, you know, a hundred percent.

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Actually, I actually think that it's a really difficult skill to have as a chef.

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If you, if you're designing a tasting menu, right.

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It's um, if you, if you operate, if you operate an a la carte restaurant, that's, that's no

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issue because people just order what they order.

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That's it.

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If you want to go full, you know, ham on it, then, you know, they might as well.

236
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,440
But if you're offering a tasting menu and it's like people get to the main course and

237
00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,880
they're like, oh my God, I feel, you know, so crushed.

238
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:19,400
It's like too much fat, too much, uh, this too much that it's difficult.

239
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:25,520
I think that's something you learn even better if you work in service towards the diners.

240
00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:30,080
I know this because the best way I started to get a feeling of this is giving food tours

241
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,840
where I, I'm just serving the food and seeing how much people are eating and I get a feeling

242
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,440
of when they're full because I see how much they leave on the plate.

243
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:39,440
Right.

244
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,240
So like, I have a good feeling of how much is enough and how much is too much.

245
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:44,240
Right.

246
00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:45,600
Like that's also like an important thing.

247
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:50,520
That's why, like, like the way people make fun of New World cuisine is like, ah, this

248
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:58,100
French cuisine where you get this little dishes and each plate and they charge you like millions

249
00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:00,200
of dollars for that.

250
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,760
Um, yeah, but those little dishes are part of a larger menu.

251
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:05,320
That's the whole thing.

252
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,120
I really don't understand how people don't get that honestly.

253
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:09,860
Like it's, and it just doesn't stop.

254
00:16:09,860 --> 00:16:12,960
People are like, oh, such a small dish for so much money.

255
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:14,440
And you're like, you do understand.

256
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,440
It's not hard to understand that this is one of many dishes, right?

257
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,920
Yeah, but that's like a very common joke.

258
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:21,920
Yes.

259
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:28,400
So rule number four, thou shalt not be systematically modernist.

260
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:29,960
That is one of my favorite ones.

261
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,320
I love this one as well.

262
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:32,320
Yeah.

263
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:33,320
It's so good.

264
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:34,760
That's my, I think that's my favorite one of them.

265
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:39,840
Thou shalt not systematically be, be systematically modernist.

266
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,720
Try to be something for the sake of being something, you know?

267
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:43,720
Yeah.

268
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:48,120
But in anything, like when, when people say, uh, I think we talked about this in the last

269
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,400
episode when people said, let's add more technique to this dish.

270
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,200
And it's like, what's that supposed to mean?

271
00:16:55,200 --> 00:17:00,320
You know, like, yeah, let's add more insecurity to this dish, you know?

272
00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:01,320
Yeah.

273
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,320
That's, that's true, no?

274
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:04,360
Yeah, exactly.

275
00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:09,600
Because then you can back up your dish by saying, yeah, we took the potatoes, we dehydrate

276
00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:11,320
and then we rehydrate them.

277
00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:12,320
Then we bake them.

278
00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:13,640
Well, then we powdered it.

279
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:15,040
Then, well, then we caramelize.

280
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:16,480
And this is what is on top.

281
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:17,480
Yeah.

282
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:25,080
But if, if that's not, if that doesn't work with the dish as something edible and enjoyable,

283
00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:30,880
it doesn't, it's not worth everything you did, all the technique you added.

284
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:31,880
Totally.

285
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:32,880
Totally.

286
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:38,320
I think it's really lazy also, honestly, because if you, it's very easy to jump on a trend

287
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,160
and it's very easy to jump on a, on a bandwagon.

288
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,000
And certain, certain techniques have a trend, right?

289
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,160
There was a trend of molecular cuisine.

290
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,800
There was a trend of eunotic things.

291
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:49,800
There was a trend of fermentation.

292
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,840
I mean, there still is, you know, and all those things, they're great.

293
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,040
All those techniques, they're really great, but doing them just for the sake of the technique

294
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,880
is very, very lazy.

295
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:04,200
If you do a technique to achieve an end result that you have in mind, that it's not down

296
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:08,960
to the technique, you know, you're not eating the technique, you eat the food.

297
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:14,640
And it's really, really lazy because you don't, you don't want to put the effort in, or you

298
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:19,720
don't have the skill and you're not willing to achieve the skill that it takes to make

299
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:23,760
a composition that is, that is a great experience when you eat it.

300
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:28,480
So you think that you can tell somebody, Hey, this is a verification of blah, blah, blah.

301
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,480
And they're going to be like, Oh, amazing.

302
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:34,920
But lo and behold, the excitement quickly fades once they put it in their mouth.

303
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:39,640
And that is, I feel like the worst thing that you can have as a chef.

304
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:44,280
And I've had so much food that was like that, where you're like, Oh, that sounds quite interesting.

305
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,640
And like, you know, people making interesting combinations, right?

306
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:52,800
There's these chefs that are really skilled at making interesting combinations of ingredients.

307
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:57,000
For example, for me, one of those chefs is Claude Bossy from London.

308
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,560
And he often, he cooks quite classically.

309
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,440
And often he has like things that go together where I'm like, Oh, that sounds so interesting.

310
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:04,440
Right?

311
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:12,440
Like he had this like, like a, a lot of passar egg with like grilled sweet corn and coconut.

312
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,240
And I was like, Oh man, that sounds, that sounds quite interesting.

313
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:20,360
Or he cooked like a fillet of beef and arabica coffee beans.

314
00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:26,680
Like just put the whole thing in like a big pot, covered it with coffee beans and roasted

315
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:31,120
it at a really high temperature and then scraped off the beans and cut the fillet.

316
00:19:31,120 --> 00:19:32,440
And I was like, man, that's so cool.

317
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:33,440
That's so interesting.

318
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:34,440
Right?

319
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:40,480
But so many times you go to like a trendy new restaurant and you read the dish descriptions

320
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,120
and you're like, Oh, that sounds really cool.

321
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:45,240
Then you eat it and you're like, eh.

322
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:53,520
Like, this is something I've thought for a long time for many different things is your

323
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,480
speech or your claim should be the main thing.

324
00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:02,160
You know, like if you see like a great artist, I don't know, Kendrick Lamar, for example,

325
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,960
why is he considered the greatest rapper at the moment?

326
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:11,120
It's not because he's the most skilled, the most skillful or because he has the best voice.

327
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:14,320
It's because he has the best claim, the best speech.

328
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,680
And you could say the same thing about, let's say Elcano or Echevarri, you know, like these

329
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:27,120
places, they're, they're have like a very solid character, a very solid speech and claim.

330
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:33,240
And also the technique, there is technique, of course, there is technique and it's difficult

331
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,760
what they do, but it's not systematically modernist.

332
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:42,560
You know, it's not like they're not adding phones.

333
00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:47,360
I don't know, seaweed phone to the grilled fish to make it more modernist.

334
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:50,560
You know, like exactly the opposite they're doing.

335
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,720
They're stripping away from, from all the bullshit.

336
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:54,720
Yeah.

337
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,520
Which in itself is a show of real skill.

338
00:20:58,520 --> 00:20:59,920
Absolutely.

339
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:04,600
Skill number five, never get high on your own supply.

340
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,280
Now that was a wrong, wrong decalogue.

341
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:09,280
Sorry.

342
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:16,520
Though, should nevertheless seek out what the new techniques can bring you.

343
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:17,520
Yeah.

344
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,120
Also, just as important as the other one, right?

345
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:25,200
You shouldn't do the technique for the technique sake, but you should never be close minded.

346
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:26,200
Absolutely.

347
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,400
I think you should always, always be open to new impressions.

348
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:36,200
I mean, and this was written in 73, back then understains cooking science was not a thing

349
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:37,200
at all.

350
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:43,640
I'm not even sure if science and cooking from all McGee was written back then.

351
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:44,640
Maybe it wasn't.

352
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:45,640
I'm not sure if it was.

353
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,200
I think it wasn't in 73.

354
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:54,920
So like that there were no foundations to understand what a, a myyaf reaction is today.

355
00:21:54,920 --> 00:22:01,400
Any chef knows what a myyaf reaction is or I don't know, even many more things.

356
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:08,080
I like the right temperatures for each piece of protein or the minutes you should blanch

357
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:09,080
every vegetable.

358
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:13,760
Like many of these things are already standardized and these are things you should master.

359
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:18,760
You should know and understand and life will be easier if you do.

360
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,320
That's basically it, you know?

361
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:21,320
Yeah, absolutely.

362
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:30,640
Rule number six, don't show, avoid pickles, cured, game meats, fermented foods, et cetera.

363
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,680
This is for me the funniest and most interesting one of them all.

364
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,000
Yeah, yeah.

365
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,640
I wonder where that came from, honestly.

366
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:45,580
Because I can imagine, I mean, these are Nouvelle Cuisine as its name says, it's against the

367
00:22:45,580 --> 00:22:47,240
old guard, right?

368
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:56,480
Like in the old guard, I can imagine them using this, yeah, this heavy sauces with pickles

369
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:01,760
and sours things that they were stripping away from it.

370
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:09,280
I guess this has to do with, as I was saying earlier, like sauces to hide flavor of bad

371
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,760
produce and this is what they were doing.

372
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,240
Ah, that makes sense.

373
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:15,240
That makes sense.

374
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:21,040
It's pretty interesting how exactly these techniques, like three or four decades later

375
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,600
with the new Nordic, had an absolute renaissance, you know?

376
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,360
Like now it's a thing to do this, exactly these things, you know?

377
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:30,360
Yeah, totally.

378
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:31,360
It's super, super interesting.

379
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:32,720
It's really funny.

380
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:38,640
Rule number seven, though, shalt eliminate rich sauces.

381
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:39,640
Yeah.

382
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:45,200
Also, I mean, I wonder, you know what I think, like what I was wondering yesterday, how would

383
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,920
you say rich the sauces have to be before the Nouvelle cuisine?

384
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:53,400
Because I mean, like people still use rich sauces, but I think before that the sauces

385
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,720
had to be fucking heavy.

386
00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:02,160
I can imagine them like this very thick gravy's, you know, like not like a demi-glace, and

387
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:07,480
demi-glace is heavy, but it's pure, you know, like it's pure, pure.

388
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:12,720
You could even consider it light, you know, like because it's not, it's not like full

389
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,280
of pureed vegetables inside of the sauce.

390
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:17,560
I think that's where it goes.

391
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:18,560
Am I in that?

392
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:25,840
And also like with some pickles to add even more umami and acidity, like that's what I

393
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:32,160
think, like something very maximalistic, very loaded with many, many components and elements.

394
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:38,600
At the end of the day, a demi-glace, it's like a rich stock that was reduced until it's

395
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:39,600
very thick.

396
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:40,600
That's it, you know?

397
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:41,600
Yeah, absolutely.

398
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:42,600
Yeah.

399
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,160
So that's number eight.

400
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,520
Those salt not ignored dietetics.

401
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:58,840
I mean, this is the sort of, I was wondering whether they mean like you should keep a health-conscious

402
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:04,160
approach which fits the nouvelle cuisine direction, right?

403
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,960
Or whether it was about being sort of like what?

404
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:07,960
You don't eat meat?

405
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:08,960
Fuck off.

406
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:10,480
No, no, no.

407
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,600
I guess this goes back about what I was saying.

408
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:20,280
I can imagine abundance and more is better was the way to go before this.

409
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,920
You know, like you would have this table full of food and you would eat until you couldn't

410
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:26,240
walk anymore.

411
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:34,720
And the image of the gourmet was this super fat guy eating snails and drinking cognac,

412
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,720
you know?

413
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:37,720
And that's over.

414
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:43,400
You know, that's well, kind of.

415
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,840
Just pitching myself eating snails and drinking cognac.

416
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,520
And I kind of like that idea right now.

417
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:54,920
Yeah, but like with 120 kilos overweight, you know, like it's a good way to go.

418
00:25:54,920 --> 00:26:00,280
Rule number nine, though, so not doctor of diet presentations.

419
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:01,280
Also really good.

420
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,280
Really, really good.

421
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:09,600
Don't stop fiddling around with your with your tweezers.

422
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:15,680
It's also less is more, I think is basically the the essence of that quote.

423
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:24,400
Yeah, but I mean, if you see dishes from that time, the the way it were, they were plated.

424
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,960
It was very simple, you know, it was usually like a sauce on the bottom of the plate and

425
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:33,640
then something that was already prepared, put in the middle and maybe three leaves of

426
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,440
any herb around.

427
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:40,720
And these were not I think the fanciest you would find was like chevrolet, you know, like

428
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,320
not not super crazy herbs until Michel Bras, you know?

429
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:46,320
Yeah.

430
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:51,760
Which is also quite interesting, you know, like how fine dining was back then.

431
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:57,600
For example, this field, piquillo peppers that now you see in every pinch of our.

432
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:58,600
Yeah.

433
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:04,440
And this was introduced by Roteta was one of the chef of the new Basque cuisine movement

434
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,240
that happened like in the end of the 70s, 80s.

435
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,320
And he would serve that in a fine dining setting.

436
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,480
And today this is something you find in every pinch of our like an adaptation with with

437
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,520
cut fish, you know.

438
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:25,000
But that's also interesting how dishes were introduced in this fine dining settings and

439
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:30,480
went out of the fine dining restaurant and ended up being as bar food, you know, which

440
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:31,480
is also amazing.

441
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:32,480
Yeah, absolutely.

442
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:37,000
And rule number 10, Valchol be inventive.

443
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,000
Yeah.

444
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,720
I think that's key for any chef.

445
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:49,040
Like, I can just think of Giro's dreams of sushi, where he said that he would wake up

446
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:55,280
and the first thing in the morning he would dream of different ways of of making his his

447
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:56,280
nigiri.

448
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:04,200
And I think that that ultimate magic around cooking, you know, like being free and inventive

449
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:11,240
and expressing yourself and using your background and your history and your heritage and putting

450
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:12,240
it on a plate.

451
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,240
Totally.

452
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:20,160
And I really like that you make this example, because, you know, when I hear that quotes,

453
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,400
I'm immediately thinking like, oh, people could misinterpret it as being sort of like

454
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,080
or always be inventive.

455
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,480
But you, you know, being inventive can be doesn't mean that you have to strive to do

456
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,080
something new all the time.

457
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:38,420
But you can do the same thing again and again, you can be a very classical cook.

458
00:28:38,420 --> 00:28:43,280
And still you can find small details that add a little bit of an extra touch to what

459
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:50,600
you're doing, you know, maybe you add a little bit of, you know, dried mushrooms to your

460
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:56,160
jus to give it a little bit more depth and awesome or you add a little bit of colatura

461
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:03,480
to this vinaigrette that you make, you know, just to give it a little bit more complexity.

462
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:08,720
And even if you're doing the same dishes again and again, you can be inventive while keeping

463
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:09,720
the same spirit.

464
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,840
It doesn't mean that you have to chase the new all the time.

465
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:18,440
I once read something and this was like in a film book, like filmmaking book.

466
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:25,800
And they said like, if you create something, it has to be all new or new old, because old

467
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,040
old or new new doesn't work.

468
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:35,000
You know, you need to have an anchor point in the new and the old and combine both things.

469
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,960
Because if it's new new, people won't get it.

470
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:40,520
It's not anchored anyway.

471
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,640
You're not really telling a story.

472
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,400
You're creating something out of nowhere.

473
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:52,040
For example, this is something that, you know, food pairing, this platform about flavor combinations

474
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:59,760
where you can and the methodology they apply, they claim that these combinations are made

475
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:07,280
by the chemical compounds of the molecular compounds of the ingredients that they create

476
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,360
flavor matchings.

477
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:17,800
But I believe if a flavor combination has zero cultural background to the eater, it

478
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:18,800
won't work.

479
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:28,320
If I give you coffee with the very coham and that has no context or it comes out of nowhere,

480
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:29,320
you won't get it.

481
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,400
You know, and you will ask yourself, why are you doing this?

482
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,240
You know, like, yeah, it's a it's a it's a really interesting point.

483
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:37,240
I like that.

484
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,980
I like that concept of has to be either new old or old new.

485
00:30:40,980 --> 00:30:45,440
It's like you could I can see a lot of people kind of being upset about that.

486
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,360
Initially, they're being sort of like, no, but new, new, like sometimes you just have

487
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:50,360
to innovate.

488
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:55,040
I'm imagining these like young Spanish chefs, you know, being like, no, and it's like, well,

489
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,160
but if you think about it a little bit deeper, then you'll see that there's that there's

490
00:30:58,160 --> 00:30:59,160
some truth in that.

491
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,560
If you if you think about this kind of thing deeper, you will see that everything is a

492
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,200
combination of things that already exist.

493
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,440
Like any great work of creativity.

494
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:16,400
If you if you break it apart, you will see that it is all new or new.

495
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:36,560
But new, new doesn't work.