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Hi everyone.

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Welcome to potluck food talks.

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We're here once again with Phil W and Fermentation

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Gandalf, Kevin Young.

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The Scobie sorcerer.

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So Kevin, you've been for a really long time now, one of the main guys in the

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Noma fermentation lab, and I'd be super interested to hear a little bit more

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about your work and how it ties into Noma and, you know, why you guys put so

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much emphasis on fermentation.

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Yeah.

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So, I mean, Noma has been using fermentation for many, many years, and

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we've kind of gotten away from talking about it so much at the restaurant.

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Like when we drop a dish on a, on a table, we, we no longer say things like,

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oh, and this sauce is made with fermented this and there's fermented this and that.

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Like, because so many of the dishes have these fermented products in them, that

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it's just part of the pantry, right?

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Like if you're making a beurre blanc, you don't say, oh, and this is a butter

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sauce made with fermented grapes.

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Yeah.

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It's just wine, right?

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So it's become such a part of, of the, the kitchen at, at Noma that it's almost

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like a section now, like you have Gare Manger, you have, I mean, at Noma it's

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different, we don't have Gare Manger, we have section one, two, three, and four.

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And the lab seasonally depending, like some seasons are busier than others.

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Some seasons there's whole, uh, servings that are, that we're responsible for

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because there are things that have toji grown on them or, um, their products that

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we like right now on the juice pairing, there's a kombucha made with honey from

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our garden, bee pollen, saffron, and sea buckthorn.

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And the, that's the first time we've ever had on the juice pairing a

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kombucha straight up as is usually.

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The juice pairing is a mixture of like a tea or, uh, a juice and a little bit of

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kombucha or some vinegar or things like that.

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This is the first thing that comes out of the, out of the lab into the,

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into the guest glass.

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And, um, it's like I said, it's, it's a changing, evolving thing with the

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fermentation lab where, you know, this, the, the guide to fermentation is almost

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obsolete now, the beef garum recipe is the same, the Piso recipe is the same,

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but so many of the, the products that we put on the menu now, every single time

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that we create a new menu, we're trying to create new products and that just gets

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us further and further away from the book that we published in 2018 and 2019.

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That's crazy.

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And, uh, the way the restaurant works for, for those of you who might not be

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familiar is we're split into three distinct seasons to, to highlight, uh,

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groups of ingredients that we believe are at their peak at those times of the year.

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So right now in the summer, it's the vegetable season, uh, where we're, it's

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primarily when we encourage vegans and vegetarians to die at the restaurant,

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because we are also doing a menu that is almost completely vegetarian or vegan.

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Like we don't serve meat or anything, but sometimes we'll use meat-based or,

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or fish-based ferments in, in some of the dishes.

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And we can easily change those up depending on if someone has an allergy

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versus in the game in forest season where the main course might be duck or, or

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deer or things like that, or in the ocean menu where you're served a raw scallop.

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And it's an amazing dish to have a scallop that's plucked out of one of our

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tanks, shucked to order, and then you, you're served the, the scallop.

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That's still quivering that, you know, you still see the muscles pulsing as you

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as eating it and it's, it's screaming fresh and so sweet and you don't get

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that experience any other way.

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And so when we have these three seasons, every single season that's upcoming,

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we're trying to be better than the year previous.

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So for example, like the 2023 game in forest, we want it to be better than 2022

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and that had to be better than 2021.

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And the lab is one of the propelling forces of that improvement because every

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time we go into a new season, we're presenting new ferments, possibly inspired

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by the, the by-products of the previous game in forest season, for example, or

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inspired by by-products from the previous vegetable season of the same year.

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The way that we work with the rest of the restaurants is the comparison I give is

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of an art gallery.

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So it was a fermentation lab.

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We're the ones mixing paints and creating as many new colors, as many bright colors

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and pigments as we can.

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And we hand off all of these paints to the test kitchen, who are the artists.

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They're the painters.

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They're the ones who create the finalized dishes using whatever types of ferments

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that we produce that they want to use.

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They're under no obligation to use everything we create.

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They're under no obligation to use anything that we create.

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They just have this image of a dish that they're trying to create and, and they're

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they're painting their own landscapes or portraits of still lifes or whatever.

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And then Renee is the final, the final judgments where he is the galleryists, right?

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And he's got this idea for this 12 to 16 piece gallery that he's going to open up

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four days a week for 85 guests of the year.

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Sorry, 85 guests per per service.

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And.

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He can then select whatever paintings that the artists in the test kitchen

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create to create this all encompassing image and point of view that he believes

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that he would like to showcase at the restaurant.

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So it's a many, many, many step process to go from what we create in the lab

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onto the menu, but a lot of what goes into the menu, often it starts and it

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in small part with a lot of the ingredients that was created in the

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restaurant and the fermentation lab.

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Well, that's amazing.

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How would you say, you know, if you, for example, you go, you were just

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explaining, you go into a new season.

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Often you try to develop things that you've done before further, but I'd

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really like to know how you approach the sort of creative R and D process.

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Do you go by profiles that you're going forward?

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Do you go by obviously, you know, I'm sure the produce that's available

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plays a big part for a certain amount, but you go also like, you have like a

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set amount of sort of like type of fermentation say, okay, we want to do

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this amount of lactic, this amount of aesthetic, this amount of like whatever.

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Like, how do you go about it?

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So when we work on, uh, ferments 99.9% of the time we're working on

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ferments for the next season.

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So right now in the fermentation lab, we're working on ferments for Kyoto for

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the pop-up that's upcoming in Japan.

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And the idea is that so many of the products we make take so much time.

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That's if we were to try to make it at the beginning of us, like during the

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the research development phase of a new season, we're already behind.

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It's like working.

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I say it's like working in a magazine.

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Like if you were a GQ magazine and you're not working on your holiday

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gift guide by the time September, October runs around, you're in a lot of trouble

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because you need to have that thing ready by December and that's not a lot of time.

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Yeah.

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So it's the same, the same way that that works, uh, is the way that we work where

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we're trying to be proactive as much as we can, we have tastings with a test

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kitchen where they'll come in and we'll present literally like dozens of different

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ferments that we've experimented on or, or think tastes good and they'll pick

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through and, you know, out of, out of 50 something products, they might choose

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six that they liked and to us, that's.

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So that's, that's a success.

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If they like anything, it's a success, right?

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Because we're not, we're not looking at it.

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Like if, if they don't use everything we create, then that's a loss for us.

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It's, it's the difference between a golfer and a baseball player.

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Like if you're, if you're a golfer, every time you hit the ball, your aim is to get

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it into the hole and you only finished playing golf when you get the last golf

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ball into the hole, if you never hit the ball into the hole, you're not a golfer.

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You are just a guy with a stick.

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Right.

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And conversely, the way that we choose to work at Noma is like baseball and in

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baseball, your goal is to get on base.

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And the greatest baseball players, um, just cause we have, I'm sure we have a

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very international audience, uh, the greatest baseball players in the history

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of baseball, their average is around 34%.

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They get on base every time they step up to the plate.

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That means that 34% of the time they are doing what is considered their job.

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And that means that almost 70% of the time they are failing, but those are the

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greatest baseball server, baseball players to ever play the game because

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they got on base that often.

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And just because you strike out, it doesn't mean that you're not doing your job

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because you have multiple attempts at doing it and it's all part of a team

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oriented ordeal, whereas golfing is, uh, for the most part of very individual sport.

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So for us, creativity is, is as much.

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Just sort of pinpoints fermentation and, and trying to be very precise, but it's

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also about trying as many different variables as you can, uh, because you

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don't know what will be successful and what won't be because it's not relying

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on, if I think that a soy sauce tastes good, and this has happened before, I

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think it's always sauce tastes amazing.

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I'll present it to the test kitchen and they won't, they won't pick it out of

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a tasting or they'll use it, but they're like, ah, you know, it's not right for

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the menu and that doesn't mean that that soy sauce is no good.

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It just means that it wasn't right for the menu.

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And then we file that away in, uh, in the mind palace for whenever down the line,

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we choose to use it again.

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And with regards to inspiration and creativity, it's very difficult to be

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creative when someone gives you a, you know, a high tech lab, like the bridge of

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the Starship enterprise to do all your fermentations in, and you, they're like,

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be creative.

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And then, you know, you start spinning in place, you have no idea what to start

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with.

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So, uh, we have certain anchors that we latch onto when it comes to creativity.

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I mean, a big one obviously is the upcoming season, right?

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You think about, okay, we're going into vegetable season.

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Boom, that's an anchor, right?

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Cause you know, everything you're going to be doing is going to be with vegetables.

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Uh, but another one is byproducts.

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Like this, this season, if it's a vegetable season, like what kind of scraps

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are we going to end up with?

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And then you have this seemingly unending stream of product that you can try to

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turn into something delicious, uh, to work with there.

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There's, uh, you know, Renee will come and show us something interesting that

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he saw, uh, or some product that a guest brought and you'll ask us questions about

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it.

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The thing with creativity is it's very similar to when you're a beekeeper and

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you're trying to start a new hive.

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And if you're trying to start a new hive, you have like these wooden frames that

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they build the honeycomb in and those wooden frames, they all have, uh, small

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bits of copper wire running from side to side, because the bees, when they build

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their hive, they need something there before they can't just build in an empty

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wooden frame, they need some kind of point to latch onto.

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So it's the same way of creativity at Noma.

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You have such an open space of creativity, this wide open wooden frame that built

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something in, you just need a little bit of a guiding copper wire to, to help you

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create a cohesive thought in a certain direction.

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That's super interesting.

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That's a super interesting angle to, uh, uh, yeah, to consider and to think about

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it's, uh, but yeah, it makes total sense.

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Um, I mean, now, you know, vegetable season is in full swing, right?

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At the moment.

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Yeah.

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Um, can you, or do you want to, um, maybe talk about some things that stand out

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that you guys developed for the vegetable season?

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Uh, let's see who would, I mean, I mentioned the, uh, the kombucha beforehand.

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Um, but they're also working with, uh, uh, one of the dishes is finished with

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what's called black yuzu and, um, it's not like, I say black yuzu and obviously

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you guys know with the fermentation lab book and black garlic, like it's not

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related to that process at all.

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It was actually inspired by, uh, the black lime that's an ingredient in the Middle

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East.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So it's a, a lime that's boiled and blanched in salted water and then dried in the sun.

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So instead of limes, uh, we, we've started using citrus at Noma, um, just as a, as a

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sidebar, uh, after the last Kyoto pop-up.

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So with every, every pop-up, we decide on, on a small handful, a small selection

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of ingredients that were integral to the success of each pop-up.

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And we permit ourselves to use that at Noma when we get back home.

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That's pretty cool.

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Which promotes evolution so that we're not just opening up Noma the same way we

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did before we went to Kyoto or Mexico or, or, uh, Tokyo or Australia.

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Um, so, uh, one of the ingredients we permit ourselves to use is, uh, yuzu.

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And I took the yuzu fruit that we had and I treated it the same way as the lime.

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And I blanched it in boiling salty water, like sea salt, like super salty.

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And then I had to use the dehydrator because for those of you who had never

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been to Denmark, the concept of sun drying anything in Denmark is unheard of slash

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impossible.

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Uh, so he's dehydrated, he dry it until it, it'll lose like 80% of its weights

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and it'll turn into this like hard rock.

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It looked, it's like a dead ringer for a black truffle.

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So when Renee came in for a tasting and saw just a massive pile of black yuzu,

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he was like, what are you guys doing with truffles?

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And we had to explain to him that it was, uh, that they were black yuzu.

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And then he loved them.

225
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:45,600
Uh, they're going on to a district now with, uh, uh, it's a, of course,

226
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,760
they use his Danish cheese and it's this, like the, the black yuzu gives this

227
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,200
rich citrusy flavor.

228
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,000
It's not fresh citrus, but it's also not cooked citrus.

229
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:56,000
It's in between.

230
00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:58,360
Um, it's almost a little bit spicy.

231
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,800
Uh, and yeah, like that, that was one that was brand new to the season that was

232
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,920
presented last season during the tastings and the test kitchen really liked it.

233
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:08,360
And they ran with it.

234
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:09,440
Amazing.

235
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,000
I wanted to ask how, how many things do you have in stock?

236
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,760
Do you have like a storage room full of buckets full of fermented things?

237
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:18,880
And how old are they?

238
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,000
Are they things that are like 10 years old?

239
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,760
Like, what about that?

240
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:30,720
Yeah, we have, uh, so we have a, an offsite facility where we have 11 metric tons

241
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:31,600
of ferments.

242
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:32,440
Wow.

243
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:33,600
11 metric tons.

244
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:34,120
Okay.

245
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:38,760
Because you have to imagine every season we're presenting new ferments and the

246
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,400
test kitchen are kind of like children where they only want to play with their

247
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,920
new toys and the old toys just kind of get left by the side.

248
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,840
So every season we're creating new toys, they're using them.

249
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,960
And then the next season, those new toys are not new anymore and they want the

250
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:54,480
new thing.

251
00:14:54,480 --> 00:15:00,680
And so then you had, you end up with a massive bunker of all kinds of like

252
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:01,960
amazing, delicious ferments.

253
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:07,480
It creates like an inventory and an encyclopedic, uh, organization where we

254
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,880
know everything that's grouped by season.

255
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,920
So we know all the shellfish ferments, we have all the wild game ferments we

256
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:14,760
have and things like that.

257
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:16,600
And this is, this is offsite.

258
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,160
This is not a normal thing.

259
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,520
This is offsite, this is not a normal, because we don't have the space to, to

260
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:22,640
have that kind of facility.

261
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,880
So it's like a, like a massive freezer that we keep everything in so that

262
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,200
whenever we need something, it's just a bike ride away and you can make some

263
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:30,560
stuff up.

264
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:31,880
That's crazy.

265
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:33,760
That must be really cool to visit.

266
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,960
Like a, like a sort of forgotten, you know, like those bunkers they build into

267
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:43,280
like Swiss mountain sites to like harbor, you know, seats, so nothing gets extinct.

268
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:48,880
So basically the, the, the pipeline of a dish development is you guys develop

269
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:53,200
the ferments and then there is a tasting, there are some selected and what about

270
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:54,840
the chefs that are creating a dish?

271
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,120
What about their process?

272
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:57,560
And you elaborate on that.

273
00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:02,640
The, so the chefs that are creating a dish, the, the process is that they'll

274
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,720
have a meeting with Renee in the test kitchen and he'll have, it's, it's very,

275
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,800
very, uh, analog.

276
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,480
He'll have this massive, uh, pad of paper on an easel.

277
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,400
Kind of like when you had like elementary school and teachers trying to teach you

278
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,560
how to spell words or things like that.

279
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:22,600
And he'll write at the top, like game in forest menu in 2023, and then he'll

280
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,440
write down a list of ingredients that he thinks are cool or that he's interested

281
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:27,280
in and things like that.

282
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,280
And then he'll write down a separate list of techniques that he's interested in.

283
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,200
And then that's what the test kitchen has to start with at the beginning.

284
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,840
And then over the course of this development period, because the test

285
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,640
kitchen, neither the test kitchen nor fermentation lab are involved in service

286
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:41,560
in the day-to-day service.

287
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:43,480
So we don't do meso blocks or anything like that.

288
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,640
And the idea is that we can focus on creative work.

289
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,920
So the test kitchen, they choose what ingredients they want to use.

290
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:57,160
They present their dishes and then slowly Renee is like this, this refining filter

291
00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:02,000
and he can kind of pick out the different elements of things that he doesn't want

292
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,680
to pursue any further and he can elevate things that he wants to focus more on

293
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:06,480
and things like that.

294
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:11,360
And then from that, he then at one point will write down on the piece of

295
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:16,680
paper, a menu, and then list the dishes that have been created.

296
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,960
And, and you'll have the name of the dish and then when it's approved,

297
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:21,600
you get a check mark.

298
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,880
So now when you're doing tastings, you, you're responsible for certain

299
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:27,880
dishes that he has to taste.

300
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,960
And then when it's finally approved and you get that check mark, it's like a,

301
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:36,080
I've, you know, I've never been in the test kitchen, uh, as a member, but to them,

302
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:41,000
I imagine it is like the greatest validation and like relief when you, you

303
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:47,040
finally get the dish perfect or as close to perfect as possible, that you get a

304
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,560
check mark from Renee and you can move on to the next dish, or you can move on to

305
00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:52,240
helping someone else with their dish and things like that.

306
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:53,600
Yeah, that must be amazing.

307
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,800
So Renee is involved in the development of every dish.

308
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:57,360
Yes.

309
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:03,600
Every single dish is approved by him and every single dish is tweaked and, and,

310
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:10,560
uh, refined and pared down or extrapolated upon depending on what he

311
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,880
feels is what he wants in, in the final dish.

312
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,720
But it's, it's like the comparison I said before, he's a gallerist and he can

313
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:22,440
pick and choose which, which paintings he wants that'll allow him to have a

314
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,040
certain point of view in his gallery.

315
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:29,120
That's actually really amazing to be here because, you know, like it's, um,

316
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,520
I'm sure you saw that plenty of times as well.

317
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:37,240
It's so many chefs, especially at such a high level, don't actually have that

318
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,960
much involvement with what's going on in their restaurant.

319
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:44,640
As you know, the outside, you know, the general public would think.

320
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:46,400
So that's really, really cool.

321
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:53,440
Can you imagine like, it's like, um, you know, like Noma has such a strong

322
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:57,840
identity, you know, stylistically, uh, visually, obviously, you know, the

323
00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:59,320
techniques that are involved and stuff.

324
00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:05,680
Um, but it's so, you know, like if you see like a dish from Noma, you know,

325
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,400
it's from there, you know, because obviously it's evolved so much since

326
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:16,000
the beginning, um, um, but you know, like, how would you say, um, it is

327
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,680
because I met, you know, if you're working in a test kitchen, you have to

328
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:23,440
have like a, a very good understanding of the identity of the restaurant, right?

329
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:28,880
You know, like how would you, um, you know, how would you say it is, you

330
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:30,720
know, kind of delving into that?

331
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:35,560
So the, the way that you would get into the test kitchen, all the members of

332
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:40,960
the test kitchen have been at Noma for, um, a very long, like longer than myself,

333
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:45,560
uh, longer than five years to the point where they have worked service.

334
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:50,080
They have worked on dishes, like they've prepped the dishes that previous

335
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:51,880
test kitchens have done in the past.

336
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,280
So they understand the process and they're handpicked by Renee because

337
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:57,520
of their creative ability.

338
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,640
It's kind of like the test kitchen team is basically, you know, seal team

339
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,720
Bravo or whatever, they're like the black ops team of people who have been

340
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:12,480
at Noma for so long that they understand in their bones what the mission

341
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:13,800
statement is of the restaurant.

342
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:14,480
Yeah.

343
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,120
And then Renee will handpick them and put them in there.

344
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,400
That's one of his like, you know, like Superman is super human strength and

345
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:26,880
heat vision, Renee Rizepi has this inherent ability to take people who work

346
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:31,360
for him and put them in the best position for them to succeed and he

347
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:33,280
has done that for over 20 years now.

348
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,600
And there's examples all over the place in the history of the restaurant.

349
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,880
I recently, we posted like a real on Noma where John was, John Reggefeld

350
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,080
was talking about Noma and there was a comment, I want to know what, what

351
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,560
you have to comment or respond on that.

352
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:53,360
And the comment said anything is possible if you have 40 stagiaires

353
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:54,240
working for free.

354
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,400
Which is not the case at Noma anymore because now we have zero

355
00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:58,720
stagiaires working for free.

356
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,920
We have stagiaires, but they are, they are completely paid now.

357
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,560
Which is, was a big deal.

358
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,920
That's something that Renee has wanted to do for a very long time.

359
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:13,600
And I mean, as, as true as the statement is that if you have 40.

360
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:19,960
Unpaid stagiaires doing whatever there is seemingly no end to the

361
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,040
possibilities that your kitchen can produce.

362
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:27,840
But I argue on the contrary, that when you take those, instead of 40

363
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:33,840
unpaid stagiaires, you have 26 paid interns who commit to six months to a

364
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:38,440
year to your restaurant and they are invested, they are paid, they are

365
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:43,560
given responsibilities, they are treated as part of the team to the point now

366
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:52,240
where instead of 24 interns or 40 unpaid interns, Noma now boasts 35 chef de

367
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:57,160
parties because any of those interns, when they spend enough time with us,

368
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,560
they can jump in and it's, it's to the point now where a chef de

369
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:06,000
party can come off their station and work on staff meal for two weeks and

370
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:12,520
have an intern fill in for them because we screen the interns before we bring

371
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,680
them on, we, we give them a proper education of all the facets of the

372
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:17,320
restaurant.

373
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:22,560
We, we nurture their learning and allow them to see as much as possible and we

374
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,440
build them up and put them in position to succeed so that when the time comes

375
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,520
to, to help, you know, in a part of the restaurant that they might not be so

376
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,240
familiar with, they have the confidence of someone who has been in the building

377
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,400
for six months, seven months, eight months, nine months, so they can jump in

378
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,400
and, and it, it really makes a difference.

379
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,960
You can tell when, when you have someone on a station who has been at the

380
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,880
restaurant for a very long time, relatively speaking.

381
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:51,760
Let's go into the draft.

382
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,280
Yeah, we have to do the draft.

383
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:54,560
Oh yes, the draft.

384
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,920
So I, yeah, Kevin, as you, did you listen to our drafts?

385
00:22:58,200 --> 00:22:59,160
I did listen to the draft.

386
00:22:59,360 --> 00:22:59,640
Okay.

387
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,480
Before, before, before you say anything, which draft did you think was better?

388
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,480
I think yours was better.

389
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,000
If you want to hear that Phil.

390
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:13,240
I think, I think Phil, your, your overall kitchen is French.

391
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:14,960
It's very, it's very French.

392
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:15,800
Yes.

393
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:16,440
Yeah.

394
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,200
But it's very capable of extremely delicious food.

395
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,560
Like your kitchen probably definitely has three stars.

396
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:23,280
Eric, your kitchen.

397
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,360
Is like, I, can I come stage in that kitchen?

398
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,520
Like you had, you had Markle Tierra White on production.

399
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,840
You had Nadia Santini on pasta and then she's presumably working side by

400
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,880
side with Wolfgang Puck on the pizza section.

401
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:36,680
Like that's awesome.

402
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,440
And Augustus Gauffier just downing magnums of champagne screaming at people.

403
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,200
Yeah, I picked Wolfgang Puck for his humor.

404
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,160
I wanted like a, like a guy, you know, dropping jokes with a

405
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,240
strong Austrian accent in my kitchen.

406
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:52,080
Yeah.

407
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,960
Like I can guarantee in both restaurants, staff meals

408
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:55,040
going to be delicious as well.

409
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:55,800
True.

410
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:56,480
True.

411
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,760
So here it goes.

412
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:00,760
The draft.

413
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:01,520
Okay.

414
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:07,240
So I want to preface this by saying, um, so the original, I, cause I

415
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,720
suggested the kitchen draft and the idea behind a draft.

416
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,520
And I'd only learned this because I learned about how they'd select

417
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,240
football players in Europe recently.

418
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:21,160
But in America, when you have a draft, you have to be very careful

419
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,040
when you do a draft, you do it like, like I would choose and Eric would

420
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,120
choose and Phil would choose, and then I would choose again, then Phil would,

421
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,160
then Eric would choose and Phil would choose, and you can't pick a double.

422
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:38,400
So you could say like, for example, Phil took Josh Nyland and then, uh, Eric

423
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,720
also had Seiji Yamamoto slash Josh Nyland on his draft.

424
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,440
So because Phil went first or, or Eric went first, one of you would

425
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:46,400
not be able to select Josh.

426
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:47,760
Oh, I see.

427
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,480
And then that's how it gets into like, Oh, you stole my guy.

428
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:54,360
Or, uh, I'm going to take this guy as my roast, my meat roast.

429
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:56,600
And that means that you can't take him for.

430
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:58,080
D'Harmondier or whatever.

431
00:24:58,280 --> 00:24:59,240
That would have made sense.

432
00:24:59,240 --> 00:24:59,480
Yeah.

433
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:06,320
So with that in mind, I did my best to avoid choosing anyone that you guys chose.

434
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,800
So I guess we'll get started with, with mine in the same order you guys got started.

435
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,720
So, uh, my chef, the cuisine is Corey Lee from Benin.

436
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:14,880
Oh yeah.

437
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:15,360
Okay.

438
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:15,760
Nice.

439
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:16,360
Nice guy.

440
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:17,920
Previously with the French Laundry.

441
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,120
French Laundry veteran.

442
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:19,440
Yeah.

443
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:24,560
Um, and he's like extremely technically proficient.

444
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,840
Uh, he likes a quiet kitchen.

445
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:32,000
I had the, the fortune of, of staging at Benu for a couple of days on the job

446
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,200
trial and he was, he's a force to be reckoned with.

447
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,240
I have the utmost respect for him and the food that he creates at Benu.

448
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:39,400
Amazing choice.

449
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:40,640
Uh, his sous chef.

450
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,520
I have, uh, Jeremy Chan from McCoy in London.

451
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:46,280
Oh yeah.

452
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:46,880
Yeah.

453
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:52,920
Uh, so he was previously, he worked at, he was an internet noma previously, but, um,

454
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,840
he also, so McCoy is like, uh, in African fine dining restaurants.

455
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,440
So his business partner, um, you contributes a lot of inspiration with African

456
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,920
spices and like his, his jollof rice is supposedly incredible.

457
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,760
I've never had the fortune of eating at McCoy.

458
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:12,320
I'm on the newsletter list and I, I just don't have the scheduling prowess to be

459
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,760
able to get over to London and eat there unfortunately, but I really like what he

460
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:22,280
does also the guys like a genius, like he speaks a zillion languages, which I

461
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,000
think as a sous chef is very important when you hear about the rest of my team

462
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,000
and the rest of the people who are working in this kitchen.

463
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:35,440
So, uh, yeah, Jeremy Chan as sous chef on sauce, I have Eric repair of

464
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:36,800
the Bernard Dan in New York city.

465
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:37,960
Nice one.

466
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:38,440
Yeah.

467
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,040
One of, uh, it's a three-man restaurant.

468
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:44,880
The really cool thing about LaBernard and is that they do still have a

469
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,440
Saucer station where you have a Saucer who's responsible for all the stock,

470
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,080
all the sauces, all the finishing of the sauces and refreshing of sauces.

471
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,840
Like it's an actual, a lot of restaurants will just have the meat, the meat guy do

472
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:01,640
that or the fish guy do that, but in LaBernard and it's a, it's an actual, uh,

473
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:07,480
section and Eric repair eats a piece of American cheese every day to set his

474
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:12,200
palate so that he knows if the cheese tastes a certain way, um, he knows that

475
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,480
his palates geared more salty or less salty today.

476
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,000
So I think a guy with that kind of attention to the ETL for tasting,

477
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,680
um, especially with sauces is super important.

478
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:21,440
Yeah.

479
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,440
On meat roast, I have Daniel Berlin of restaurant Vune in Sweden.

480
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:27,680
Oh, nice.

481
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,560
Previously of restaurant Daniel Berlin in Sweden.

482
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:36,240
Uh, I haven't had the fortune of eating his food, but I know that he only serves

483
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:42,080
meats during the autumn when, uh, when he's able to serve wild game and, uh,

484
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:43,240
and things like that.

485
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,200
And I don't know if that's the same now that he's opened a new restaurant, but I

486
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:51,040
I've heard very amazing things about his, his game cookery.

487
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:54,280
It's one of my, my favorite chefs, stylistically.

488
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:55,680
Like, yeah, it's amazing.

489
00:27:56,120 --> 00:28:01,760
And on fish roast, I have Laurent Gras, previously of L2O and Cezanne.

490
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:02,920
Oh, very good.

491
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:08,480
L2O actually called L2O because the L subbing out the H and H2O of a seafood

492
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:09,880
restaurant with the L for Laurent.

493
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,680
Uh, extremely technical chef.

494
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,720
Another technician that you can kind of, as I'm listing these names, you can see

495
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,640
the direction that this restaurant is going now, like very technically precise,

496
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,560
very ingredient forward on Autrometier slash Tournante.

497
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,920
I have Dylan Watson Braun from Ernst.

498
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,160
Uh, he's a, he's a younger guy.

499
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,680
He's an EMA, maybe he's not as well known as some of the other guys in this kitchen,

500
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,880
but I've had the fortune of eating at Ernst several times.

501
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:42,280
And in addition to the amazing seafood and meat cookery, I think his

502
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,960
vegetable cookery is second to none, especially considering that you two

503
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:51,680
chose Alain Bessard and Michel Bra as your, as your, uh, Autrometiers.

504
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,920
Um, I think Dylan is a masterful cook when it comes to vegetables.

505
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:01,040
I also have him at Tournante because then he can help out chefs, Berlin and

506
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,960
chefs, Bra on the roast stations.

507
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,840
In addition to Sean Gray, formerly of Moafuku Co on Gare Monge.

508
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:13,640
He's not at Moafuku Co now because Moafuku Co is no more, but I ate there at the bar

509
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:21,160
and it was playful, creative, delicious, high acid, multi-textual, and just a very

510
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:22,800
fun restaurant to be a part of.

511
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,400
And I, a lot of the cold dishes at that, at that restaurant were amazing.

512
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,280
Um, so you can see the savory side.

513
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,600
All of these guys, they have restaurants that are under a hundred cover dining rooms.

514
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:35,760
Right.

515
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,440
Like Libertadien obviously does multiple turns, but the rest of them, like Sean Gray

516
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,200
from Moafuku Co had a counter, Dylan at Ernst is a counter.

517
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,280
Daniel Berlin is a small dining room.

518
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:47,640
Ekoi is a small dining room.

519
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:48,800
Benu is a small dining room.

520
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:54,720
The idea I have is for, um, if not simply a counter restaurant, but maybe a

521
00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:00,520
counter with a few tables, um, on pastry sweet side, I have Albert Adria of Enigma.

522
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,320
I think the greatest pastry chef.

523
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:10,240
Of the last hundred years to also play into some of the whimsy coming from

524
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,240
the Armonjay section and also because a lot of his desserts are not super sweet.

525
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,160
I'm not a fan of sweet desserts.

526
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,400
And then I added a bonus because you guys had production people and things like that.

527
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:26,560
So in my R&D test kitchen, I've got Matt Orlando formerly of Amas, currently of

528
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:33,440
Air in Singapore because, uh, he's extremely creative, intensely clever.

529
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:38,040
And this restaurant, I mean, the payroll alone for these salaries is going to

530
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:38,680
bankrupt me.

531
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,640
So if he's able to turn some of my byproducts into products, that'll

532
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:42,920
help a lot for the bottom line.

533
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:45,320
Nice.

534
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,080
So that is, that is my draft.

535
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:48,320
Super nice one.

536
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:49,360
I love it.

537
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:50,720
Very, very nice draft.

538
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:50,960
Yeah.

539
00:30:50,960 --> 00:31:12,120
Really, really good choices.