1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,600 Hi everyone, welcome to potluck food talks. 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:15,560 Today we're on another episode of our Mugaritz Chronicles with my man Phil W and Kevin the 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:16,560 Koji Whisperer. 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:17,560 How you guys doing? 5 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:18,560 Doing great, doing great. 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:26,520 Living my best life as the Whisperer of Koji. 7 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,760 So how did you end up in Mugaritz Kevin? 8 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:29,760 How did it happen? 9 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:38,120 So I first heard about Mugaritz, what must have been 2010, 2009. 10 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,480 I was working in a restaurant at the time, but the restaurant was closed. 11 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:46,200 It was open seven days, six days a week, but you would only work five of those six days. 12 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:51,800 So I had two days that I wasn't at the restaurant and I took a job, a part time job at a bookstore 13 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,480 in Toronto that only sold cookbooks. 14 00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:00,880 And basically I got paid to sell cookbooks to the people who came into the store. 15 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:06,520 And besides that, just read as many cookbooks as I wanted and you would get a discount on 16 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,080 cookbooks as well as staff members. 17 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:12,920 So that was around the same year that the Fieden Mugaritz book came out. 18 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:19,760 And I remember reading it and seeing basically food, food that I had never seen before. 19 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,640 I grew up on the French Laundry Cookbook. 20 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,320 That was like one of the first most influential cookbooks I ever, I ever read. 21 00:01:27,320 --> 00:01:28,320 Classic. 22 00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:30,760 And if you look at photos of the Mugaritz Cookbook and photos of the French Laundry 23 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,800 Cookbook, you can see there's definitely a big difference. 24 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:40,760 And it was very exciting to me to see that kind of food in a cookbook and to be aware 25 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,360 of this other restaurants in Spain, right? 26 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,560 Because we all, we all knew about El Bulli at the time. 27 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:51,000 That was El Bulli's heyday was around that time, you know, was it five straights, number 28 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,040 ones in the world and things like that. 29 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:58,960 This is before, before Noma took over as the number one restaurant in the world. 30 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:04,840 And Andoni came to Toronto to do a book signing and a book tour to promote his book. 31 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,760 And whenever these authors, these chefs would come to Toronto to do these tours, they would 32 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:11,720 do it through the bookstore I worked at. 33 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,960 That was, we were like a very small independent bookstore, but it was all cookbooks. 34 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:19,860 So it made sense for chefs who were promoting their books to come through that store and 35 00:02:19,860 --> 00:02:22,560 promotes all their, all their new things. 36 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:28,040 So as a side note, that's how I met people like Anthony Bourdain and Nigella Lawson and 37 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,840 Daniel Belluge is, that's how I met René for the first time. 38 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:32,640 And now I work with the guy. 39 00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:40,840 But anyways, Andoni came through and set up a store, did a signing, did a bit of a talk 40 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:48,200 with people in the store through a translator who was Susanna, his assistant at the time. 41 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,840 And I just asked him, that was the end of the event. 42 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:55,520 And I told him that I had applied for an internship a year before and had never heard back. 43 00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,840 And then I said, you know, someday I'd like to be an intern for you and in San Sebastian 44 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:03,640 and that my Spanish was terrible slash non-existent. 45 00:03:03,640 --> 00:03:11,040 And to his credit, he gave me his full attention and said, this is the email to the person 46 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,800 who handles internships, send her an email and, and then we'll get you in. 47 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,960 Okay, so there was no, there was no wait time or anything like that. 48 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:25,840 That evening I sent an email to, to, I think it was the Isa at Mugaritz who was taking 49 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:26,840 care of all the internships. 50 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:32,200 And then I heard back that they had an opening and later that this was, this must've been 51 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:40,160 in like July or August later that, that year in September, I believe I flew to San Sebastian. 52 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,320 I was 21 years old. 53 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:48,760 It's interesting what you say about the books because I remember if I'm not wrong, Phil, 54 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:54,440 that was also the reason you went to Mugaritz through the book, like what first sparked 55 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,920 you or your thing of going there. 56 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:02,160 And from my side, talking about the, the first time I saw the French only cookbook was actually 57 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,080 at the Mugaritz intern house. 58 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:10,000 Someone had the book and I remember I was working at the garden at that moment and I, 59 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:15,800 there was a picture of a chef like with scissors cutting herbs in a culinary garden. 60 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:21,160 And I was like, wow, this is not like some crazy Basque, well actually it is, but like 61 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:27,640 some crazy Basque chefs doing this isolated from, from anything else in the world. 62 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,920 This is something that there are other restaurants doing the same, right? 63 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:36,240 Like having a garden and doing this type of tweezer cooking and, and that was completely 64 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:37,240 new for me. 65 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:38,240 I mean, I was like 18 years old. 66 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,160 It was like something really impressive. 67 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:41,160 Yeah. 68 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,680 It's funny that you mentioned that seeing the book at the, at Mugaritz for the first 69 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:50,840 time because Phil, I don't remember, I don't know if you remember this, but I had the La 70 00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:57,040 Straske cookbook ordered from the bookstore I used to work at shipped to San Sebastian 71 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:58,640 to the intern house. 72 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,000 And I think that might've been the first time you got to see that book as well. 73 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,240 Cause I remember we were both looking at it in that, that weird basement dining room area 74 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:07,440 in the, in the house we were living in. 75 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:08,440 Yeah. 76 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:10,480 That's crazy because that's your favorite cookbook, right? 77 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:11,480 And Phil. 78 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:12,480 Yeah. 79 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:19,640 I was just about to say, I, um, I, yeah, that cookbook like influenced me massively, massively. 80 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,920 And it's the only restaurant that I regret not having gotten into. 81 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:28,600 I mean, I set myself, uh, very like very early on, there were like three restaurants that 82 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,960 I kind of set myself the goal of working at or a starging at. 83 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:41,520 And there was Mugurids, Ryogin and, uh, Faviken. 84 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,120 And um, and I, I managed to get into all of these. 85 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,240 I was very fortunate that that happened like really, really quickly in my career. 86 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:54,120 Um, and, uh, but La Strasse is really sort of like one place that I really regret not 87 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:55,120 having went. 88 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,760 I tried, I tried to get in, but it's, I never heard anything back. 89 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,320 Um, but that cookbook is such an inspiration still. 90 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,560 I mean, like, I mean, talking about the French law of the cookbook and stuff like that, I 91 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,520 still like once in a while I take it into my hand and I kind of read through it and 92 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:15,560 you know, the, the processes and the broths and the sauces and that, but, um, this for 93 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,440 me, there's no cookbook like the La Strasse cookbook. 94 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:22,960 It really kind of hits the, the pitch of kind of like what I feel passionate about in cooking. 95 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:27,080 It has this like real, it's very unique, very, very unique. 96 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:28,080 Yeah. 97 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:33,800 I spent fucking days reading that book, like in the emails, the kitchen, like in the break 98 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,120 that we sometimes had in between services. 99 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,480 If there was like a break, I would go into the emails, the kitchen, read the, and read 100 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,600 the books that were there in the library. 101 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,800 And more often than not, I would read the last trans cookbook and look at that little 102 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:50,440 site manual of like step by step of like how to make the mushroom tart or how to roast 103 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,440 a pigeon or the, the missile eggplant that he did, right. 104 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,080 Or he steamed it and pressed it and then bruleed it and it was like custard. 105 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,080 Yeah. 106 00:06:58,080 --> 00:06:59,080 The NASA dengaku version. 107 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:00,080 Yeah. 108 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,200 And we, we do that in the test kitchen until they kicked us out because we were supposed 109 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,200 to be on siesta. 110 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:11,320 I've said it many times that maybe the most technical chef I've seen working, uh, was 111 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:17,040 a French Japanese guy called Shinichi Sato, who was a stagiaire at Mugariz in my time 112 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:18,840 when I was there. 113 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,240 And he was like a last trans veteran. 114 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:28,920 So the first time I knew who Pascal Barbeau was, was because he walked into the kitchen 115 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,680 and everyone was like, Oh, he's there. 116 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:32,680 Everybody was impressed. 117 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,440 And suddenly the Japanese was like, Hey man, what's up? 118 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,520 You know, like just saying hi to me. 119 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:41,920 He was doing the, he did like the fish section for a few years in last trans. 120 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,560 Also the first time that I saw the guys from Disrutar, they were, they were still working 121 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,080 at El Bulli back then. 122 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,200 This was 2005, you know. 123 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,240 So they walk into the kitchen and I was like, who are these guys? 124 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,280 And they were like, you don't know. 125 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,560 Yeah, nice. 126 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,520 So and how did you guys meet, meet each other? 127 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:01,800 I also want to know about that. 128 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,520 Like you lived in the same apartment or how was it exactly? 129 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:12,080 So I would been an intern at Mugariz for the end of the 2011 season. 130 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:14,340 I think, yeah, it was 2011. 131 00:08:14,340 --> 00:08:18,240 And then when we came back, I was, I was asked to come back for the Ima stay period where 132 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:25,280 they basically develop the new menu for the months of what, February and March to be debuted 133 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,780 in April when the restaurant reopened because the restaurant basically closes at the Christmas 134 00:08:28,780 --> 00:08:32,400 holiday and doesn't reopen until the early, early spring. 135 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:37,120 So they, they had me come back and help them out with that. 136 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,920 And I think Phil, did you come for part of that as well? 137 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,240 Or did you come when we started service days and things like that? 138 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,160 I came, I was one of the first to arrive for the new season. 139 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,600 I came like two or three weeks before the service day started. 140 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:59,600 So I had sort of like one of the first picks in the house for, you know, from, I mean, 141 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:04,080 apart from who was left there from the Ima stay period. 142 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,720 But yeah, I came in, I didn't do any Ima stay or anything. 143 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,200 Like I came straight in the beginning for the, for the service days. 144 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,160 And you showed up with like no luggage. 145 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:13,160 I remember this. 146 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,200 You were just like, it was like you showed up with a knapsack or something. 147 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:17,200 Yeah. 148 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,200 Cause I didn't have anything, man. 149 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:21,200 Didn't own anything. 150 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:27,000 He had to burn all his things because he had like one, one week to leave Berlin. 151 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:32,560 I left, like, I honestly, I don't know how much of that, like you kind of like picked 152 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:37,120 up or, but I mean, I came, I arrived in Mugaritz like pretty bashed up. 153 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,160 I had like cuts and bruises in my face. 154 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:40,160 Yeah. 155 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:46,040 I remember you told me you were stopped at every airplane control in every airport. 156 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:47,040 You please step aside. 157 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,600 We want to check you a little bit more. 158 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:50,800 Yeah, no, absolutely. 159 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:56,680 I mean, I literally went to the airport from like a nightclub back then. 160 00:09:56,680 --> 00:09:59,320 Um, it was, it was a bit rough. 161 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:00,320 Yeah. 162 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,440 You left Burgheim and then went to your internship at Mugaritz basically is what you say. 163 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:05,440 Katablau. 164 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,520 He left Katablau after three days. 165 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,080 No, it was, uh, it was actually Club de Vizier. 166 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,400 And I had lost my passport in the club and had to find it again. 167 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:19,200 And, uh, the bouncer was like, why the fuck are you like, he, somebody like handed my 168 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:23,460 passport to the bouncer and I was like looking everywhere for it. 169 00:10:23,460 --> 00:10:24,460 And then I find it in them. 170 00:10:24,460 --> 00:10:26,100 So I was like, Oh my God, thank you so much. 171 00:10:26,100 --> 00:10:27,100 Thank you. 172 00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:28,100 Thank you. 173 00:10:28,100 --> 00:10:29,100 And he's like, okay, sorry. 174 00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:33,600 Why the fuck are you here with a passport in your, your pocket and like a backpack in 175 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:34,600 the corner? 176 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:39,220 And I'm like, yeah, I got played to catch to Spain. 177 00:10:39,220 --> 00:10:43,600 When we started, when he opened the season, we were on pastry. 178 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,800 And Jess was on pastry and Shannon was on pastry. 179 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:53,000 I was on pastry and then our CDP was Jade, who was the first, it was her first CDP position. 180 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:54,000 Yeah. 181 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,880 Jade, who would go on to be the head chef of Mugaritz. 182 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:58,840 I don't know what year afterwards. 183 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:00,800 We should also invite Jade to the show. 184 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,400 She's, she's doing an amazing wine right now. 185 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:04,400 Yeah. 186 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,680 She's on a luxurious vacation in my Yorktown right now. 187 00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:08,800 I think that's why I haven't been able to meet up with her. 188 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,160 Because I really wanted to see her. 189 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:11,160 We were, we were good friends. 190 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,120 We were both working at Mugaritz. 191 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:14,120 Yeah. 192 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,160 But I was listening to an episode, one of the previous Mugaritz episodes, and you're 193 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:22,960 talking about the, uh, the, the celery, the regolith, the licorice, the, the bane of your 194 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:26,840 existence where you had to coat the celery in a thin caramel, a black caramel. 195 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:27,840 Yes. 196 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,320 I don't know if you mentioned it, or I don't even know if you knew, but I made that dish 197 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,280 for Ima's day. 198 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:34,280 Did you actually? 199 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:35,280 Yeah, that was my dish. 200 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:36,280 I didn't knew. 201 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:43,360 And I remember thinking like, this is going to be so hard to do. 202 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,080 It really opens up my section. 203 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,800 So that's actually how you met. 204 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:55,880 I was telling Eric about it too, because, um, the version you did is actually the easy 205 00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:01,840 version because at one point Oswaldo, like I was working with Oswaldo, uh, during the 206 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:06,680 Ima's day period, he was like my commanding officer and I'd report to him and he wanted 207 00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:10,840 it to look like a classic black licorice candy. 208 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:12,860 So he wanted it to have ridges and things on it. 209 00:12:12,860 --> 00:12:18,520 So there was a setup where instantly you had the, uh, the lactose, uh, the way you do it, 210 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:23,000 the lactose is in the container, but this, this way was lactose in a stainless steel 211 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:28,600 bowl and then the base of the, um, the sauce gun, like the little funnel where you can 212 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,120 pull the trigger and sauce comes out the funnel. 213 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,000 And then when you let go of the trigger, the sauce stops. 214 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:38,680 The little stand that you put that sauce gun in was in the bowl of lactose. 215 00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:44,080 And then you would take the ring mold of the, the perfect film of caramel, quickly take 216 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:49,880 it out, put it into the, it sits in this stand for the funnel, spin the bowl. 217 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:55,400 And then as it's spinning, slowly drop the, uh, the celery through so that you had that 218 00:12:55,400 --> 00:13:00,040 side spiral, uh, the spiral ridges, um, on, on the cake. 219 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:01,040 Did that work? 220 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,840 It worked, but both Oswaldo and I were like, don't do that. 221 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,800 If you can imagine, like this is for like one or two pieces where you're trying to do 222 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,680 it, like in a service or it's like five or six of these, how many bowls are you going 223 00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:13,680 to have going? 224 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:16,960 Like you just, you're just going to be one intern in the back of the two mission start 225 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:21,080 kitchen spinning stainless steel holes and dropping celery through a, through a ring 226 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:22,560 mold like that'll never happen. 227 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:25,600 So what you got was actually the easy version. 228 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:26,600 So Walter. 229 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:27,600 Yeah. 230 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,800 And I mean, like it was, it's just like you say, it was kind of like doing one was fine, 231 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:38,000 you know, um, doing the second one was maybe okay also, you know, but then like doing the 232 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,560 third one and the fourth one, by the time you did the fourth one, like I remember this 233 00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:46,000 like one service where I was just like, there was just like five, it was obviously one of 234 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:51,560 the first services like in the first month after this like mock service period, um, had 235 00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:55,760 passed and Julieta was just shouting at me and Jada also, you know, he was just screaming 236 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,640 at me, this is like, why the fuck is the legalese? 237 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:03,280 And I was just like, by the time I do the fourth one, the first one is like soggy and 238 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,600 like I, and it's just getting sent back. 239 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:11,480 And I was like, man, I can't physically keep saying this. 240 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,080 This is, you know, it's just a sisyphus pushing up a boulder up the hill. 241 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,080 Yeah. 242 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,400 And this was on this, you were on the same section, this and the no root cellar. 243 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,320 Well the koozie, was it koozie meringue? 244 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,080 No, it was some other kind of meringue. 245 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:29,000 You had to make a nervous koozie and then cut perfect squares out of it. 246 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,360 And you had, it was a coffee buttercream. 247 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:31,360 That was delicious. 248 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,320 I helped myself to a coffee buttercream on many an occasion, just like on a spoon or 249 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:36,640 on a finger or something like that. 250 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:37,640 It's delicious. 251 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:38,640 It was very good. 252 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,520 But that was also something that had to be built a la minute or something. 253 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,160 And it was like very rarely was it correct. 254 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:51,120 So you were just taking it on all ends about all of your museum classes, just disastrous, 255 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:52,120 but that nothing to do with you. 256 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,240 It was just very difficult recipes. 257 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,760 Man, honestly, but it was like, that was my first like, like me dipping my toes into like 258 00:14:58,760 --> 00:14:59,760 the Mugara's experience. 259 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:00,760 And that was my first section. 260 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:02,880 I had the fucking regalize and the Russo. 261 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:07,080 I feel like I mentioned it before because this koozie meringue, it like disappeared 262 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:08,080 in your mouth. 263 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:12,760 And it was like actually a cool idea of having this like very heavy looking buttery sort 264 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:17,000 of honey, Russian honey cake looking like a dessert that when you eat it completely 265 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,080 disappears and there's like, there was only buttercream like on the outside, but on the 266 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,760 inside it was like lactose powder and instant coffee powder. 267 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:30,880 So you have to flavor of this like coffee cake, but none of the like heaviness and creaminess, 268 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:36,840 but you would like scrape, you know, try to hold this like meringue sandwich and try to 269 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:43,280 like with an offset spatula, scrape the buttermilk on the sides neatly without the meringue getting 270 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:44,280 stained. 271 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,320 But also it's like sweltering 30 degrees outside. 272 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:48,320 That's how I remember it. 273 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,000 Anyway, the meringue sticking to your fingers and disappearing in your fingerprints and things 274 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,000 like that. 275 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,000 Exactly. 276 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,000 Exactly. 277 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,000 And my God, it was just a nightmare. 278 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:57,640 And I was like, what the fuck am I doing here? 279 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,760 Like as you say, like, oh, you got it from like all the ends, but I was actually just 280 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,440 thinking like, I'm just, I'm just shit at this, you know, like I'm just pretty bad at 281 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,240 this job. 282 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,520 What about Phil running in the mornings? 283 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:12,440 The story you told me, Kevin. 284 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:13,440 Yeah. 285 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:19,440 Well, last impression I have of you apart from our many Chuleta excursions where we 286 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:24,440 had Chuleta for dessert as well, which we might talk about in a little bit as well, 287 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:29,880 was just for a good chunk of time when we were living together, you would run barefoot. 288 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,680 Like you would just go for a run in the vast country with no shoes on. 289 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,080 And I was like, who is this guy? 290 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:38,080 Like what a lunatic. 291 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,240 But it would be like, you wouldn't have running shorts. 292 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,720 You were in jeans and like a purple hoodie or something. 293 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:45,720 You just go running. 294 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:50,560 I didn't actually remember this until like Eric teased at the fact that you guys talked 295 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:55,080 about this the other day and it just all came back to me. 296 00:16:55,080 --> 00:17:00,040 And I mean, I mean, yeah, I can, you know, now with a bit of distance, I can see how 297 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:07,440 that might seem really unhinged because I mean, I mean it was. 298 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,160 But you know, I didn't own any running shorts. 299 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,720 I didn't own any running shoes. 300 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:12,720 So yeah. 301 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:13,720 Oh, okay. 302 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:14,720 That's the reason. 303 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:15,720 That makes sense. 304 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:16,720 Okay. 305 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,680 And living on the side of a mountain, there's nothing to do. 306 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:20,680 Yeah. 307 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,440 I enjoyed my, I enjoyed my, you know, mountain, mountain man runs. 308 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,560 I mean, the best country is really exceptionally beautiful. 309 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:33,720 It was a very, I mean, it's a very strange sort of like living situation that we had 310 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:38,640 there, you know, I mean, like with this, like, you have to imagine a big house in between 311 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:45,000 two villages, fairly small villages in the best countryside on top of a hill. 312 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,000 It was not a hit. 313 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,000 It was a mountain. 314 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,000 It was a mountain. 315 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,000 We climbed them. 316 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,600 It was a half hour walk up a mountain from the nearest grocery store. 317 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,560 I think a hill doesn't, doesn't really, doesn't really explain it. 318 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:56,560 Does it? 319 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:57,560 Yeah. 320 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:58,560 Yeah. 321 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,400 I once I tried to skate down this hill, I bought like a little penny board. 322 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:02,400 Oh my God. 323 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,160 I don't know why I thought it was a good idea because it's like steep as fuck. 324 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:12,040 So I start going down this hill at brand new shoes, you know, like brand new vans. 325 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,440 I start going down this hill and I realized, man, this was a really, really terrible idea 326 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:21,520 because either I just commit and I go like 80 miles an hour down this fucking hill or 327 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,160 I go, go for the side and try not to hit a cow. 328 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:30,600 Or option number three, I'll try to break my, my speed right now. 329 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:37,360 So I put my foot down the tip of my foot and try to break the speed and the fucking road 330 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:40,720 just burned a hole through my entire shoe or to my toes. 331 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,720 So I had to go for option two. 332 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:43,720 Yeah. 333 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,200 And so it was a mountain. 334 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:46,200 Yeah. 335 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:47,200 But yeah, what a strange living situation. 336 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,840 I mean, sort of like the characters that we lived in and kind of like a lot of the people 337 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,680 like I also forgot about at one point, Eric and me, we were talking about people quitting 338 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:56,680 and the stash. 339 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:01,000 And like, I remember there was this one guy who was with us like for two weeks and then 340 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,000 in the morning. 341 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,000 Cause yeah. 342 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,000 And he climbed out a window. 343 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:05,000 Exactly. 344 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,000 Yeah. 345 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,000 Exactly. 346 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,600 I wasn't, I wasn't sure what I remembered it correctly. 347 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,080 Cause it sounds so ludicrous. 348 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:12,880 Like he couldn't open the door for some reason. 349 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,360 He threw his backpack. 350 00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:15,360 Yeah. 351 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:18,880 And he climbed out the window like we're all like there and we're like, who was this guy 352 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:19,880 doing? 353 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,440 He puts his backpack out the window, jumps out and it starts walking. 354 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,720 Like, all right, guess it wasn't for him. 355 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,280 I mean, just say you're leaving. 356 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:27,280 That's perfectly fine. 357 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,560 You know, like nobody's going to hit you or something. 358 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:31,560 Yeah. 359 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:36,000 I mean, we were just like all getting ready to like collectively drive to the restaurant 360 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,680 in the morning and this guy just bolts, which is very strange because you're like in the 361 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,040 middle of fucking nowhere. 362 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,240 Like there's no go to really. 363 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:44,240 Yeah. 364 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:45,240 Yeah. 365 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,880 But I mean, our group, especially there's a lot of people who went on to do great things 366 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:49,880 as well. 367 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:58,000 Like, Santiago, obviously of coal now in Mayfair in London was on the cover of GQ magazine 368 00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,000 or something like that. 369 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,640 I still, I give them shit about that all the time. 370 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,560 I'm like, now remember as small people when you couldn't make lentil properly for staff 371 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:05,560 meal. 372 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,560 You didn't just say that. 373 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,160 Chet has one of the best Indian restaurants in London right now. 374 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,160 I mean, Jess is at Gerald's. 375 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:19,160 Shannon was working at some excellent restaurants in Chicago now or she was, I don't know where 376 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,480 she is now, but her and I have lost touch unfortunately, but I send her a message every 377 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:24,720 so often. 378 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,280 But there's a lot of cool people that we met in that house. 379 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:28,760 Like there were like 20 of us. 380 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:29,760 Yeah, absolutely. 381 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:34,640 For me, I know maybe you had your moments of not liking so many people being around 382 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:42,520 all the time, but for me personally, being around people who were into what I was into, 383 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,560 like food and cooking in restaurants. 384 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,080 And you know, there were days where you and I would like look at photos of the tasting 385 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,120 menu at a linea or something like that. 386 00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:52,120 Like that's something I never experienced in my life before. 387 00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:58,160 I never was able to do that with friends from school or family or anything like that. 388 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:04,280 So to me, I look at those 11 months living in that house as like a very formative part 389 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:09,640 of my life, is the friendships and the people I got to meet and live with. 390 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:10,640 Yeah, 100%. 391 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,480 Yeah, for me, I have to say exactly the same. 392 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:18,360 I never was like in a place surrounded by people where you could share cookbooks and 393 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:22,440 talk about the culinary techniques. 394 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,720 And that's actually what we would do all day long. 395 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:30,880 We would work in a restaurant and then talk about the work and techniques and these kind 396 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:31,880 of things. 397 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,200 So that was kind of like the way. 398 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:34,200 Yeah, absolutely. 399 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,920 And like for me, honestly, you know, especially when this discussion comes up, it's sort of 400 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,840 like all starging, you know, is it worth it? 401 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:40,840 Is it not worth it? 402 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,640 You know, and you know, I mean, like I learned some things in Mougarets, you know, it's not 403 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,560 the style of food that like I cook, you know, or that I want to cook. 404 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,000 I still learned a lot of stuff. 405 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,400 But for me, by far, the most valuable thing, the thing that I really like appreciate and 406 00:21:55,400 --> 00:22:01,680 treasured the most, honestly, is like absolutely invaluable to me is, you know, exactly that 407 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,320 is the people that you meet and like life long friendships, you know, like the friendships 408 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,760 that you and I have, you know, it's just like for me, that's something so extremely special 409 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,640 and valuable, and I could not imagine, you know, not having that. 410 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:17,920 It was super, apart from the fact that so much knowledge is shared and so many impressions, 411 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,880 you know, it's like what you're saying, like, it's not just about working there, but like 412 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:26,640 on your days off, you know, like the times we made like, you know, chili crab with Terrence 413 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,520 and bak kut teh and stuff like that. 414 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:33,040 And like going out to eat and just kind of having these experiences and not just having 415 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,800 these culinary experiences and inputs, but also being able to kind of ping pong off each 416 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,560 other and talk about it. 417 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,720 Many del dias have French Dia. 418 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,840 All those, all those great moments. 419 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:50,320 Do you remember when we, there was the top 50, the 50 best restaurants and we streamed 420 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:51,320 it at the house. 421 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:52,320 Yes, of course. 422 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,040 Cause someone, I don't know if it was me or someone else got it on their computer and 423 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,640 we had like a massive viewing party of all of us in the living room. 424 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:04,240 There's a, there's a photo of us crowded onto a single couch in like whatever semblance 425 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:09,160 of pajamas we had on cause it was on a day off and we did, everyone did wagers and bets 426 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:10,320 on who would get number one. 427 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:11,520 And we all watched it together. 428 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,160 Like that was really cool. 429 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:14,160 Do you have that photo? 430 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,160 Yeah, it's somewhere. 431 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,600 I'll send it to you after, after we record. 432 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:18,600 Oh, please. 433 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:19,600 That'd be amazing. 434 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:27,200 Kevin, what can you say about Mugarrich philosophy and your thoughts on it? 435 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:31,200 Like the working methodology and all these kinds of things. 436 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:38,120 So I mean, this right now as a recording, I had some people send me this tick tock video 437 00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:41,480 of some influencer who went to Mugarrich and hated everything. 438 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,800 And they've logged to the whole meal and they were like, yeah, it's just this and this with 439 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,400 barbecue sauce and this didn't taste good. 440 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:51,560 And they gave me a weird fuzzy moldy potato blanket and they didn't buy into it. 441 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:56,040 And the first thing that they say to us when we start Mugarrich and I don't know if it's 442 00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,400 the same for you, Eric, when you start there too, but they say that they're not trying 443 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,720 to be the most delicious restaurant in the world. 444 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,360 They want to be provocative. 445 00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:06,000 Yeah, absolutely. 446 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,040 That was already part of the core thought back then already in 2005. 447 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,080 I think that's from the very beginning. 448 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,080 Yeah. 449 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:18,080 And they're not trying to make a tasty menu of, you know, stunner 10 out of 10 perfect 450 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,080 dishes. 451 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:24,080 They're trying to provoke thoughts and perspective. 452 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,520 And they're looking at it in the same way that an artist looks at a canvas in a gallery, 453 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:29,520 right? 454 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:34,800 There's that the famous what a few years ago, someone duct taped a banana to a wall and 455 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,760 in a gallery and people lost their minds over like, this isn't art. 456 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,960 This is like parody or whatever. 457 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:46,600 And in the end, that banana, like for what, two dollars of banana and a little piece of 458 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,920 duct tape strapped to a wall had millions of people around the world talking about it. 459 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,000 And if that is not art, I don't know what is. 460 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,000 Yeah. 461 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,160 And that's what Mugarrich is trying to do. 462 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:55,280 They're not trying to make delicious food. 463 00:24:55,280 --> 00:25:01,320 They just want you to experience emotion and self thought and opinion and hopefully growth 464 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,340 over the course of a meal so that when you leave, you're different than when you walk 465 00:25:05,340 --> 00:25:06,340 through the doors. 466 00:25:06,340 --> 00:25:10,320 And I think that's something people can't grasp if they're trying to go to a two mission 467 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,200 star restaurant, the classic way. 468 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,080 I think that's exactly what they're best at. 469 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:26,040 Like this kind of contextualizing and involving your experience in a storytelling setting better 470 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,040 than anyone else. 471 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,760 I cannot think of another restaurant who is better at that because I can think of other 472 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:37,920 restaurants that are better, perhaps more technical or delicious or something else. 473 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:43,200 But this specific thing, maybe, I don't know, maybe the very soul comes to mind, but I don't 474 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:48,520 know them that well, but that pops up so that I could think of. 475 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:54,920 But I mean, up until then, nobody went as deep through that path as they did. 476 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,440 And I think that that's quite an achievement. 477 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:01,000 Like the story you told me the other day where they were like, what was it? 478 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,000 Croquetas? 479 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,000 That one was broken? 480 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,720 Do you want to tell the story? 481 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:11,240 That Donnie came out to the table and said, oh, I'm giving you this one because this is 482 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:12,520 the best way to have it. 483 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,200 Was that me or was that someone else? 484 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:15,440 I was there when that story was told. 485 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,080 I don't think I told it though. 486 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,120 Well, the story, maybe it was John Reggifold? 487 00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:21,720 Oh, it might've been. 488 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:22,720 Yeah. 489 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:23,720 Yeah. 490 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,120 Because we were all outside of the society talking. 491 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:26,120 Yeah. 492 00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:30,640 There were like, I don't know, like let's say croqueta, just to say an idea. 493 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,680 It could be whatever, like a different dish of something. 494 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,640 But there were like four pieces and one was like broken. 495 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:43,960 You know, it has like a line where the filling would come out. 496 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,840 And in that specific moment, it wasn't possible to replace it. 497 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:49,560 So it had to go out. 498 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,620 You know, like what do you do in that moment? 499 00:26:51,620 --> 00:26:53,760 You know, like how do you fix that? 500 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:58,320 So like, I don't know if the story is true or not, but it's a very good story. 501 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:03,400 So like that Andoni himself went out and to the person who would get the broken one, he 502 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,560 told him, you're getting the broken one because this is the best way when it breaks, because 503 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,520 blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. 504 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:10,520 Right? 505 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:17,520 So, and the, I think the, the, the lesson here is transforming a mistake into a, like, 506 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,160 you're not the loser for getting the broken one. 507 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:21,160 You're the luckiest one. 508 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:22,160 Right? 509 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:23,160 Yeah. 510 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:24,160 Everything's relative. 511 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:25,160 Yeah. 512 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:26,160 Yeah, exactly. 513 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,200 And, and this kind of thing, like understanding that, that, and such a sensorial experience 514 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,760 as it is going to a restaurant, this things really have an impact in your experience. 515 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:39,320 It's really changed, these are the memorable moments or the ones you will talk about, like 516 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,280 the banana on the wall, you know? 517 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,080 I mean, like back in the day, I don't think like they still did that when, when we were 518 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,960 there, but I mean, back in the day you would get an envelope at Mugaris and one said, submit 519 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,880 and the other said, rebel or something like that. 520 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:52,880 Right? 521 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:53,880 Yeah. 522 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:54,880 In my times we had it too. 523 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:55,880 Yeah. 524 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:56,880 And I mean, like that kind of like really sums it up. 525 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,240 It's sort of like, well, you know, you can kind of like, you know, go against it a little 526 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,840 bit and you're still going to get like interesting and nice food, or you can like really actually 527 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:10,320 submit and kind of let go of your, of the ideas that you bring with you into the restaurant 528 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:16,800 and just really open your mind and let yourself get taken along this, you know, brainchild 529 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:21,480 of these chefs that maybe will resonate with you, you know? 530 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:22,640 And I think that's really cool. 531 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,120 I don't really know a lot of restaurants where they do that, where it's like very specific 532 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:32,080 ideas or like uncomfortable, uncomfortable feelings that are like getting tackled. 533 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:36,560 It's almost like therapy in a way, you know, it's kind of like the moldy, the moldy apple 534 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:42,040 or something like that, you know, the tempeh with the grass, you know, where, or even like, 535 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,000 you know, you remember the vanilla bean? 536 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,760 Yeah, the Alezzo. 537 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:46,920 Yeah, exactly. 538 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:47,920 I thought that was so cool. 539 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,680 It was such a small thing and it was like, I mean, you know, like it was okay, didn't 540 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:55,200 taste bad or anything, but I thought that the idea of like, you know, when you have 541 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,640 this juicy vanilla pod and you kind of just like, it just looks so inviting to bite into 542 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,120 it, but you can't eat it. 543 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,920 And then making that possible that you can actually bite into this really juicy vanilla 544 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:05,920 pod. 545 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:06,920 I thought this is such a cool like- 546 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,160 Because the Alezzo, it was like a fern or something, right? 547 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,400 It was something like a fiddlehead fern or something? 548 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,920 Fiddlehead fern and it gets fermented in ash. 549 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,100 And yeah, it gets like boiled and then fermented in ash or whatever. 550 00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:23,760 And then it just basically just changes the texture and then it gets infused with vanilla 551 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,280 and coated in vanilla sugar and then put into a glass- 552 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,280 The little tube that the vanilla comes in, right? 553 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:31,280 Yeah. 554 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:32,280 Yeah, exactly. 555 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:33,280 In a glass tube. 556 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,240 And it's so like, it's, I mean, it's kind of like, it's not a lot, right? 557 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:44,120 But because you have this like association with it and suddenly something that's not 558 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,360 been possible before is possible to you. 559 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,040 It kind of breaks your perception of reality a little bit. 560 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,520 And that's really, really cool. 561 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,080 Well, did you ever eat it, Mobeer? 562 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,080 I didn't actually. 563 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:55,080 No? 564 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:56,080 I was too poor. 565 00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:03,800 I did when I was there in 2005 and I had the, they had two menus, the Naturan, which was 566 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,800 a Vanguard and the Sustriac. 567 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:10,260 Naturan means nature and Sustriac means roots in Basque. 568 00:30:10,260 --> 00:30:13,720 So I had the Sustriac one and super nice menu. 569 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,320 I still, for me, that's my favorite epoch in Mugara. 570 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,680 It's like the Chlorophyllia epoch. 571 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:26,280 And I still have the book here at home and I open it and I think those pictures are beautiful 572 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:33,280 and the recipes would come with this free writing, like poems and prose about specific 573 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:34,280 herbs. 574 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:35,720 It's a beautiful book. 575 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:36,960 Did you eat at Mugara's? 576 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:45,520 I finally ate there in 2022, like, you know, a decade after I finished my internship. 577 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,240 Just to like kind of close the circle because I was curious about it. 578 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:54,000 And the first course on that menu was the ceramic of a face where they would put the 579 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:59,200 onion gel and flowers and you were supposed to, they're like, this is to mimic the first 580 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,520 kiss or the first like hot make out of your life. 581 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,280 And you're supposed to use, don't like just pick up the face and like make out with the 582 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,120 ceramic and eat the flowers and the gel and everything altogether. 583 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,120 And it's like, it's an icebreaker. 584 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,920 It's the first course of the menu, right? 585 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:18,880 So it's at that point, that's their statement they have to, you decide then to buy in or 586 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,840 to submit or to resist. 587 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,120 And I was in solo diner. 588 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:30,720 So from sitting at this table making out with my porcelain face by myself, like I completely 589 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,880 bought it and I loved it. 590 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:38,120 And then I look over and there's a floor top of like, I think Dutch tourists who didn't 591 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:42,380 buy in and like they got this, like we started around the same time and I'm sure they saw 592 00:31:42,380 --> 00:31:46,040 me doing my thing with my face in the corner. 593 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:51,120 And they asked for cutlery because they're like, we're not gonna pick this up and do 594 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:52,120 what you want us to do. 595 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,460 And at that point you kind of, like it ruins it for you. 596 00:31:56,460 --> 00:31:59,320 It ruins it for the restaurants. 597 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:04,880 And then also like the people around you as well, because it's one thing to say, no, I 598 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,700 want to eat it with cutlery and you're by yourself and no one else sees you. 599 00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:16,440 But when, you know, if let's say I wasn't as jealous about this dish, if I see another 600 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,240 table asking for cutlery and we're like, no, I want cutlery too, because I'm self-conscious 601 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:21,240 about doing this. 602 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:27,120 Like it's really cool that you're around other people when they ask you and they ask you 603 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:32,320 to, you know, break down your barriers and submit and invest in the experience you're 604 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,600 about to have. 605 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,840 And it was, was it the best meal I've ever had? 606 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:36,840 Absolutely not. 607 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:43,720 I'm glad I ate there and, and experience the arts and the perspective of the restaurant 608 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,280 that you know, 10 years ago was so formative in my career. 609 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:51,280 Like for me, it was a very, very cool closing of the circle and to see the sala again and 610 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:56,760 to see the kitchen and to see where, where I wiped out carrying a tray of golinas on 611 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,800 the slippery floor and, and where the heat lamps were that kept hitting me in the head 612 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,760 because I'm tall and they would pull them low and things like that. 613 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:09,040 Like it was, it was nice to have that whole experience that I hadn't had after finishing 614 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:10,480 my internship. 615 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:16,680 I also went back then 2016 and the second time, I mean, it was a nice experience. 616 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,600 I have nothing to say against it. 617 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:26,480 But it's not kind of like the kind of experience I look for, I have to say. 618 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:32,600 Like, like I looked like more straightforward food, you know, like a subero or an Echevary 619 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,040 or an Elcano or this, this kind of places. 620 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,800 It is a matter of preference. 621 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:42,920 I have a closing question and that's so from when you've eaten there and the time that 622 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:48,000 you've worked there, what's your favorite Mugleritz dish and why? 623 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,800 Am I going first or is Eric going first or are you going first? 624 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,320 No, this question is just for you actually. 625 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:54,760 Oh, it's just for me. 626 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,040 But I want to answer too. 627 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,000 Okay, well let Eric go first, let Eric go first and you can think. 628 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,800 Okay, Eric goes first. 629 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:06,600 For sure was when I was in the pastry, the this yellow, which was like a pistachio biscuit 630 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,560 with a matcha tea, kuzu. 631 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:11,560 What else did it have? 632 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:17,160 Like a frozen form of orange blossom. 633 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:18,160 What else? 634 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,600 Yeah, I think that was it. 635 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:25,320 And I did hundreds of those and it was a, I learned many techniques with that dish and 636 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:32,560 I also had to do the portion of the frozen forms and the freezer inside at minus 40 degrees. 637 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,440 So it was quite an experience. 638 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:35,920 See that sounds delicious, honestly. 639 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,120 Yeah, it was an amazing dish. 640 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:39,120 I loved it. 641 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:44,440 Yeah, I thought you would, I would have thought you say, you would say the salad. 642 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:45,440 Potato rocks. 643 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,000 Yeah, the potato rocks. 644 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,240 And eating, there are a few like the becada. 645 00:34:51,240 --> 00:34:53,760 I remember loving the becada. 646 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,320 I also remember the foie gras was amazing. 647 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:02,120 And also this, this potatoes that we would do that were like turn potatoes and a meat 648 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,840 jus with a cow tendon. 649 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:05,840 That was amazing. 650 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,320 And they had something else, truffles. 651 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:08,320 That truffle. 652 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,320 Yeah. 653 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:10,320 Nice. 654 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:15,160 But you see those dishes were very classical and very straightforward and very like, you 655 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,360 know, succulent and substantial fall. 656 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:19,360 And yeah. 657 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:20,360 Yeah. 658 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:21,360 Yeah. 659 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,280 Because you were there at a very different time from Phil and myself. 660 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,360 So that here are the dishes that you were praying versus the dishes we were doing is 661 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,440 really cool. 662 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,960 I mean, I will always treasure the Torija that we would do for the weddings. 663 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:35,960 Yes. 664 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:37,600 Because they would always make me do it. 665 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,240 Because no one else could figure out how to do it. 666 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:41,240 Same with me. 667 00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:43,640 I was also the Torija guy when in my time. 668 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:44,640 Same with me, actually. 669 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,040 With the Brulee iron, right? 670 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,600 Which is definitely not work workplace safe. 671 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:54,920 There was like a hair iron with no safety features on it. 672 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,360 So it would just get like nuclear hot and then you would just have it sitting on a rock 673 00:35:58,360 --> 00:35:59,360 on your stage. 674 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:00,840 And you're like, how is that safe? 675 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:01,840 Right. 676 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:06,040 How is someone not attached to that and sear themselves? 677 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:11,520 But there was also Phil, I don't know if you remember the Chuleta. 678 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,280 We would do the Chuleta serving and it would be like you get like a small big piece of 679 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:23,600 menu size piece, but then there was a perfect canal of Chuleta butter that was half rendered 680 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,440 and smoked Chuleta fat. 681 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,040 And then they added flaxseed, mucilage to it. 682 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:33,600 And I think it's ania, which I still don't know what that is. 683 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:39,440 And then you would blend it in a thermal mix and it would turn into like an ice cream texture. 684 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,360 But it wouldn't when it was cold, it wouldn't go granular like a like Chuleta fat would 685 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,040 because there was enough emulsifier in there. 686 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:46,040 It kept it creamy. 687 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:52,280 So you get your Chuleta with some kind of herbs dressed in jus and this canal of Chuleta 688 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:53,280 butter. 689 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,400 And that butter specifically was really awesome to me. 690 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:03,220 And then I remember we would do a alfaldre of cordero, which is lamb. 691 00:37:03,220 --> 00:37:04,760 And it was like the fat cap of the lamb. 692 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:09,080 And we rendered it slowly over the fire so that the fat all rendered and dropped out. 693 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:13,880 And you were left with basically a skeleton of thin like protein filaments so that it 694 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,840 shattered like puff pastry. 695 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,200 And that was a garnish on the lamb loin that we served. 696 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:22,200 That was a really cool technique. 697 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:23,200 I really like that. 698 00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,000 I snacked on a lot of that and to my own detriment because that was on my section once I moved 699 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,000 over to Carnes. 700 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:29,000 Yeah. 701 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,000 You're not getting away Phil. 702 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,000 Meat? 703 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,000 Okay. 704 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,400 I definitely, I have a very specific favorite dish. 705 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:38,400 The licorice. 706 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:39,400 Yeah, of course. 707 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:50,280 Followed right by the never realized loose flour salad in a seafood sphere of sugar. 708 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,000 Oh yes, the balloon. 709 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,000 I forgot about that. 710 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,000 Yeah. 711 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,840 The impossible dream. 712 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:04,040 So I think I mentioned it before, but there was one time where, I don't know whether it 713 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,380 was because diners had come too many times and they were running out of dishes or something, 714 00:38:08,380 --> 00:38:12,760 but Ramon, especially Ramon rift up a dish. 715 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:19,760 It was in an autumn, it was game season and he rift up this dish of becava, which is snipe 716 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:28,160 and he basically make like a snipe stew together with salted cod and trails, which sounds horrible. 717 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,080 Like a salted cod tripe. 718 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:31,080 Like a swim bladder? 719 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,080 Yeah. 720 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:33,080 Not like the, yeah, the tripe. 721 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,080 Like it was the tripe. 722 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:40,720 Yeah, that's a, yeah, that's actually, it has nothing to do with urine or anything, 723 00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:42,200 but it's a swimming bladder. 724 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:43,200 Yeah. 725 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,760 And it was like, it was so delicious. 726 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:53,120 It had this gaminess meatiness, but at the same time it had this like funky fishy salt 727 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:59,600 cod flavor and gave the sauce is like lip smacking stickiness. 728 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:04,240 And I was like, man, that's such a group, like the such a fucking gourmet thing. 729 00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:09,960 You know, it's like, it's like a St. Pierre poached in, in Villejoux, you know, this 730 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:15,360 like combination of like a red mullet was like a duck consomme, you know, it's like 731 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,600 this, this kind of really old school, but very sensitive cooking of mixing different 732 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,840 terrains and that was absolutely amazing. 733 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:29,880 I thought it was just ridiculous to delicious. 734 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,920 That's it for this week's episode of potluck food talks. 735 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,780 If you like what we're doing, make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss 736 00:39:36,780 --> 00:39:38,040 an episode. 737 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,040 You can also find us on Instagram and Tik Tok as potluck food talks. 738 00:39:42,040 --> 00:40:03,720 The show airs every Monday.