1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,320 Hi everyone, welcome to potluck food talks. 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:13,000 I'm Eric and I'm here with Phil, my brother from different mother and father. 3 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:14,320 Coincidentally, yes. 4 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:15,320 How are you doing, man? 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:16,320 Yeah, we're very good. 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:17,320 How are you? 7 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:18,480 Good, man, good. 8 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:25,200 If you hear me hectic scribbling, it is because I am working on the thing that we're going 9 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,200 to be talking about, which is giving me a real headache. 10 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:34,600 I was thinking the topic for today could be advice for chefs. 11 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,440 There was a chapter on Bourdain's book that was, so you want to be a chef? 12 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,560 We could call the episode something like that. 13 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,560 Oh yeah, that's a good idea. 14 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,640 I feel like as an audience for this sort of thing, I feel like a lot of people have a 15 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,760 lot of, I mean, I'm sure it was the same. 16 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,040 I don't know how it was for you. 17 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:57,160 Did you have a lot of doubts how you would approach your journey as a chef or it just 18 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:58,160 kind of happened? 19 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:03,720 I remember I was really interested in reading biographies of chefs, not only recipes and 20 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:12,520 cookbooks, but also knowing their life tracks, but also because I had this curiosity in general, 21 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:17,640 you know, like if I like an artist or a film director or whatever, for me it's always interesting 22 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,360 to understand how they made it. 23 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,140 And yeah, and there was no exception with cooking. 24 00:01:24,140 --> 00:01:29,960 So I read quite a few biographies, but also this kind of advice, sometimes interviews. 25 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:32,600 So I can go with the first one. 26 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,920 A first good advice I would say is be kind, don't be an asshole. 27 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,480 That's a good, good advice. 28 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:42,800 You want to elaborate on that? 29 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:43,800 Yeah, sure. 30 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:50,760 Like, I mean, it's so easy and sometimes attempting to be an asshole, especially when you see 31 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,480 someone doing something wrong or having a wrong attitude. 32 00:01:55,480 --> 00:02:01,520 But for example, I think like a very positive influence I had on this matter was Nanny Lassa, 33 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,160 who was like one of the chefs at Mugaritz. 34 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:10,960 And that guy was incredibly calm and he would always ask with good manners and keep a tone 35 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:12,600 and stay calm. 36 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:13,920 And I really admire that. 37 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:18,680 And I think that's like a super positive quality to have in a job. 38 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:19,680 Yeah, totally. 39 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:20,840 I totally agree with you. 40 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:27,280 You know, I, when I was younger, I, you know, I was very passionate about the job. 41 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:30,920 And I also, I came out of kitchens where it was very tough. 42 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:36,960 And so when somebody made a mistake, I, for some reason, like, like on one side, I didn't 43 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,960 really understand it when people didn't take it seriously. 44 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:41,800 And I was like, man, you're like, you're making a mistake. 45 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:42,800 It's just like wrong. 46 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,160 And somebody's telling you it's wrong. 47 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,800 Like you should take it and like, take it seriously, not be like aloof about it and 48 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,960 be like, oh yeah, whatever, you know, it's still fine. 49 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:59,040 And it's a, it's a, it's a fine line between caring about something and applying yourself 50 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,080 and being an asshole, you know, because I think one aspect of that is very important. 51 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,800 It's very important to take what you're doing seriously and with seriously, I don't mean 52 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,420 be very serious about it. 53 00:03:09,420 --> 00:03:14,640 You know, I mean, you know, really, if you're already taking the time to do it, you know, 54 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:19,080 do it properly and do it with passion and with soul and, you know, apply yourself and 55 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:20,280 put yourself into it. 56 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,800 Because if you don't, then what the fuck are you doing it for? 57 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:23,800 And it's like an office job. 58 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,480 You're clocking in, you're clocking out, super depressing. 59 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:32,680 But at the same time, you know, don't get caught up in all this like weird little bullshit. 60 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,920 At the end of the day, whatever you're doing should be for your enjoyment also. 61 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,880 And that's also, you know, enjoyment is not just sitting on the couch. 62 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,880 Enjoyment is also straining yourself and striving and trying to achieve and nurturing people. 63 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,440 And that's also enjoyment. 64 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:54,520 And don't take it too seriously, you know, if of course there's a lot of stressful aspects, 65 00:03:54,520 --> 00:04:01,000 but just try to see the bigger picture, try to see where the enjoyment is, because that's 66 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,720 also going to give you the most benefit out of the process that you're in. 67 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:10,760 Yeah, like, like on the same line of thought, I think it's, it's also important to understand 68 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:12,320 what your motivation is. 69 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,920 You remember those letters that you get when you go to Mugaritz that they write, have very 70 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:19,280 clear why you're coming here. 71 00:04:19,280 --> 00:04:21,880 So you can remember that in the hardest moments. 72 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:27,440 I think that's, that's something you should take like in general, not only for being in 73 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:33,320 like, like in a specific restaurant, but like having a vision or a motivation, which is 74 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:39,060 not, not anything else, but the narrative that shapes your roadmap, your tree of decisions, 75 00:04:39,060 --> 00:04:45,200 you know, like what do you like, what not, what kind of places you like and which not, 76 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:51,200 you know, like in our own thought building like a style, a vision that could later translate 77 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:58,520 into, into your own personal brand or your company or whatever, you know, like, yeah, 78 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:00,920 that's something no, nobody's going to help you on that. 79 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:01,920 That's your business. 80 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:03,200 You have to figure it out yourself. 81 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:04,200 Absolutely. 82 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,840 And also you talked about people criticizing other people's. 83 00:05:07,840 --> 00:05:11,600 I think it's very, very important to be open to criticism. 84 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:17,400 Of course it's important also to, you know, to save someone to stop if there is an abusive 85 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:22,120 behavior, but also on the other side, I think there's a difference between that and being 86 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,360 just a victimized crybaby. 87 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:25,960 Oh yeah, for sure. 88 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,120 So in respecting that middle point, I think it's also key, you know, like making like 89 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,720 a big drama because someone told you, you did something wrong. 90 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,480 Then that's your problem, not the other person's problem, you know? 91 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:38,480 No, absolutely. 92 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:41,040 And I think that's such a great point to make. 93 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,840 You really need to be real with yourself, you know? 94 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:49,400 Like show up before anything, show up for yourself and tell yourself the truth. 95 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:51,560 Like you would tell your best friend. 96 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,920 Sometimes we need people to tell us how things really are, you know, because you get so caught 97 00:05:55,920 --> 00:06:00,500 up in our own bullshit and our own minds and our own little perception of things, you know, 98 00:06:00,500 --> 00:06:03,160 it's very, very important to be super honest with yourself. 99 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:08,540 And you know, like very close friends, if they see their close friend doing something 100 00:06:08,540 --> 00:06:13,320 that is really stupid and not okay, they're going to take that person and be like, hey 101 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,960 bro, that's fucked up what you just did. 102 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:17,320 Like, that's not okay. 103 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,040 You know, what's going on with you? 104 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:20,180 And that's okay. 105 00:06:20,180 --> 00:06:22,880 That's fine because that's good for you, you know? 106 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:23,880 And it happens to everybody. 107 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:24,880 It's not the end of the world. 108 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,480 It's not like everybody's going to turn their back on you. 109 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,080 It's very important to do that with yourself, you know? 110 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,320 Really as important to stick up for yourself, you know, especially when we're talking about 111 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:40,280 kitchens and there's subjects like, you know, an abusive environment, et cetera, you know, 112 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:44,680 the constant topics that we're talking about in gastronomy. 113 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:51,520 But be real with yourself and think to yourself, okay, because it's very easy to fall and very 114 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,920 comfortable to fall into the victim position of being like, oh, no, I'm not going to do 115 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,880 this because this and this didn't agree with me. 116 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,080 It's kind of like, well, is it valid? 117 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:07,160 Or are you actually doing you a disservice and everybody else who is in an actually horrible 118 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:08,680 situation a disservice? 119 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:13,000 Yeah, like another one I would say is knowledge reigns supreme. 120 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:19,320 Like, you need to get as much knowledge as you can, like understanding ingredients and 121 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:21,040 processes, techniques. 122 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:25,480 And today there are so endless resources for it. 123 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:30,200 Like it was pretty hard to find videos when I started, you know, and now you have YouTube 124 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,040 and you can check whatever. 125 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:37,800 There are also so many platforms like, I don't know, like Chef Steps and these kinds of things, 126 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:42,520 Gromda, you know, like where you can get like master classes from master chefs. 127 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:49,360 That's, if I would be on my apprentice stage, I would take advantage of all of those resources 128 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:50,360 for sure. 129 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,360 Oh yeah, absolutely. 130 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:53,360 Absolutely. 131 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:58,480 And I think kind of tying into that is sort of like, you know, give things time. 132 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:04,920 You know, I feel like everybody, especially nowadays, and I know that I was at fault with 133 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:11,400 that also is that people just try to rush through, you know, I mean, things take time 134 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:16,840 and you know, to be, to become, I mean, just thinking that if you're a chef, you want to 135 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,320 become a head chef at some point, you know, that takes time. 136 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,280 It's a long process and there's a lot of skills attached to it. 137 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,880 Like, of course you can be a head chef standing at the pass and calling out tickets, but being 138 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:35,440 a head chef or any sort of like senior chefs, you know, person working in gastronomy, is 139 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:41,400 such a wide skillset that you need to have, you know, cooking is just the start of it. 140 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,380 And that takes time. 141 00:08:43,380 --> 00:08:51,640 So give yourself that time, don't rush the process, really internalize and repeat the 142 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:56,320 things that you should be really, really exceptional at. 143 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:57,320 Right? 144 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:01,600 So of course, you know, you should be a very, very exceptional cook. 145 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:02,600 What does that mean? 146 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:07,880 That means that you should work all the stations in the restaurants and learn every aspect 147 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:09,560 of what it means to be a chef. 148 00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:11,320 It's impossible to learn everything, of course. 149 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:16,560 But say you pick one restaurant where you like the style of food that they do. 150 00:09:16,560 --> 00:09:21,200 You work the garde-manger, you work the entre-mete, you work the sauce here in postionne, you 151 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:26,680 work the pâtisserie, maybe you are too norf for a little bit, whatever. 152 00:09:26,680 --> 00:09:28,240 Really internalize all those aspects. 153 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,800 Because at one point you're not going to be cooking there anymore, but you need to understand 154 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,560 everything that's going on there. 155 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:36,600 And then that's just the cooking part. 156 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:41,800 Then everything else comes to financial side, the organizational side, the creative side, 157 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:47,680 and then the humanitarian side, the social aspect of working with people. 158 00:09:47,680 --> 00:09:48,960 It's so, so important. 159 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:55,760 I feel like probably 80% of people rush through this understanding before they become a leader. 160 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,940 They know how to cook and then they take on leadership without knowing how to manage. 161 00:09:59,940 --> 00:10:01,160 I was one of those people. 162 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:02,160 No, absolutely. 163 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,840 I think you should build a knowledge taxonomy. 164 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,840 When I started there weren't online drives where you can have everything and lose your 165 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,000 computer and still have everything online. 166 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:18,800 I would definitely have something like that with folders. 167 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:25,720 And at the same time, I think it's also important not to saturate yourself. 168 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,920 It's not the same having one single book and knowing it pretty well before you go to the 169 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:35,280 next one or having a folder with 2000 books you haven't read and you don't even know 170 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:36,280 what the content is. 171 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:41,440 You know, like that's, which is pretty common because there is a lot of ebook smuggling 172 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,200 in the chef's world. 173 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,540 And you'll end up with a folder with 2000 books you haven't read. 174 00:10:47,540 --> 00:10:49,560 And that's also okay. 175 00:10:49,560 --> 00:10:53,440 But I mean, like do the learning properly. 176 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:58,560 And also if I have, if I would recommend one knowledge that you should really master, even 177 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:04,840 though it's the most boring one, it would be like cost control and management. 178 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:10,240 Like that will get you a job much more than being super creative. 179 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:15,720 You know, like someone who hires a chef will take creativity for granted, but they will 180 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,840 really dig into that how much you understand about processing the costs. 181 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,200 And this is one of the main reasons why some restaurants fail and close. 182 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:27,040 It's because they're not doing the whole financial management right. 183 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:28,040 Yeah, yeah. 184 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:29,040 Absolutely. 185 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,280 Absolutely right. 186 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,600 And you know, with what you just said, with this like vast amount of knowledge that you 187 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:40,040 can have, you know, I often think that becoming a chef is kind of like signing up for a martial 188 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:46,140 arts, you know, like you decide, okay, I want to train this martial art and you come in, 189 00:11:46,140 --> 00:11:50,200 you get your white jacket and you get your white belt, right? 190 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:51,200 Your white belt. 191 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:56,680 And you have to, you have to visit some Kung Fu masters and, and farm mountains to learn 192 00:11:56,680 --> 00:11:59,120 how to do like a secret punch, right? 193 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:00,120 Yeah. 194 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:04,080 If you want to be the real, you know, if you want to be the real G, then that's what you 195 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:05,080 do. 196 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,960 But even if you just want to be in your dojo and you want to just like, you know, carry 197 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:14,480 on in the beginning, you get the white belt, you know, and you learn the basics and you 198 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:19,480 practice the basics and you repeat them, repeat them until you are solid at them. 199 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:24,920 And then maybe get promoted for next belt, you know, and then, but you'll keep adding 200 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,360 new techniques to your repertoire, right? 201 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:34,080 But you will keep repeating the foundations, the fundamentals and really honing them. 202 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,880 And anybody who's trained a little bit of martial arts knows that any martial art, you 203 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:48,280 know, knows that it's a fundamental, it's a very fundamental truth that the basic techniques 204 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:57,120 studied and honed and executed with a razor sharp edge, one of the highest skill levels 205 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:58,120 that you can have. 206 00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:59,120 For sure. 207 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:04,880 And of course you can add really fancy throws and flips and kicks and whatever, you know, 208 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:05,880 and that's very cool. 209 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:06,880 That's very great. 210 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,880 But that's nothing without the fundamentals. 211 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:15,640 And I feel like a lot of people forget that, you know, if I step into the kitchen and I 212 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:24,080 cook something, I have the criteria for myself and the standard that I wanted to be better 213 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,880 than the guy who's cooking in my team on that section. 214 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:34,320 Not because of ego, but because of I need to keep my skill level at a certain level 215 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:40,200 so that the people who are working with me have somebody who can teach them something, 216 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,120 you know, where there's still a little bit of room for improvement. 217 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:48,120 And if that's not there, maybe that's there in some other aspects. 218 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,160 You know, I also, you know, I've worked with people who were much better at certain things 219 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,800 than me, obviously, but maybe there's other things that I can give them, you know, maybe 220 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:00,360 it's in the creativity part, maybe it's in the managerial part, you know, but that always 221 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,560 needs to, you always need to stay fresh and you just stay sharp. 222 00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:10,360 And I mean like knowing the foundations, but also you can get knowledge, like culinary 223 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,360 knowledge from so many sources. 224 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:17,880 You know, you can ask the dishwasher working at your restaurant from traditional recipes 225 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,040 from his or her country. 226 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:26,000 You know, you can ask your friend's mother for traditional recipes. 227 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:31,960 And besides that, like having a repertoire of classics and understanding, classic techniques, 228 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:36,360 which I think it's a super-passionating word in itself. 229 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:41,440 I think it's also, you should know at least a few of the Michael Jordans in the game. 230 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,320 You know, like I recently saw an interview with Albert Adria. 231 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,480 He was doing a pop-up with Alain Ducasse in Paris. 232 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:55,920 And one of the apprentices working there that came from one of the Ducasse culinary schools 233 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,880 tells Albert how to properly hold the chip on wood. 234 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,120 You know, like, no, no, you don't hold it like this. 235 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:02,120 You know, like- 236 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:03,120 Oh my God. 237 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:04,120 Imagine. 238 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:11,960 If you're at an event cooking with Albert Adria, you should do some basic checking about 239 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:12,960 who that guy is. 240 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,920 You know, I really think you should do those things. 241 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:21,160 I had the opportunity, I work in a restaurant, like the first restaurant where I was an apprentice, 242 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:27,960 they would bring some, you know, some famous chefs from Spain to do like dinners or like 243 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,360 special dinners and forehands and so on. 244 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:36,040 And I mean, like at least check out on Wikipedia, you know, what they've done. 245 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:41,840 Perhaps he invented that thing you're correcting him about or was part of the development of 246 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:42,840 it. 247 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:43,840 No, a hundred percent. 248 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:44,840 Absolutely. 249 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,600 It's like, you know, be humble. 250 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:48,600 It's just in general. 251 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,960 I think it's like a general life thing and it's a thing that's thrown around a lot, you 252 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,900 know, but like it's kind of what I said earlier, don't take it too serious. 253 00:15:56,900 --> 00:15:58,600 Don't take yourself too seriously. 254 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:05,520 You know, have a shokunin mindset, a beginner's mindset, and that's going to bring you really, 255 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,520 really far. 256 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:13,040 And if you're not taking things too like seriously and you're taking things humbly, you're opening 257 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:19,280 yourself to the ability of infinite knowledge and wisdom that's coming at you, you know, 258 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:27,080 from any source, you know, and you're allowing yourself the ability to constantly change 259 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:32,760 and constantly adapt because if you're like stiff, convinced that the way that you're 260 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:38,360 filleting this fish is the best way ever, you know, then you're not going to move. 261 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,520 You're stationary like a rock. 262 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:45,480 But if you allow yourself to, if you don't have that and if you're easy breezy about 263 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,280 it, you can basically go wherever, you know. 264 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:54,800 My last advice would be avoid toxic lifestyles on the long run. 265 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,200 Like, of course, there is going to be like a lot of drinking and partying and that kind 266 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,280 of things, but that's not sustainable over decades. 267 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,800 I mean, like if you do that while you're young every day, fine. 268 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:12,720 If you do that every day after you're 40, maybe, you know, you'll die young and that's 269 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:13,720 all. 270 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:14,720 If you want to do that, that's fine. 271 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:15,720 Yeah. 272 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:23,120 I love how you're ending this advice on basically like a stay away from drugs kids. 273 00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:26,240 But obviously like you're right, you know, you're absolutely right. 274 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:27,240 I think. 275 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:28,880 No, I didn't say stay away from drugs. 276 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,400 I say don't get too deep into them. 277 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:33,400 Okay, okay. 278 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:34,400 I see. 279 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:35,400 I'm sorry. 280 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,840 I'm sorry for twisting your words. 281 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:44,160 But yeah, it's a toxic lifestyle, you know, for me, a toxic lifestyle starts in your mind 282 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:45,160 also. 283 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,080 And that's why I said, you know, this is kind of the advice that I could give is kind of 284 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:55,280 the advice that I give myself sometimes is, you know, like remember why you got into it, 285 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:00,800 you know, with all the bullshit that can be involved in everyday life and in this job, 286 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:06,800 you know, remember why originally you chose to go into this job, which is very beautiful, 287 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,960 you know, you're working with your hands, you're working with the seasons, you're creating 288 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:11,160 every day. 289 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:17,000 You have the ability to learn something all the time and the opportunity to improve yourself 290 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,760 every single day and you get to work with people that you can bounce your creativity 291 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,520 off and you could work off of. 292 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,920 It's a very, very rewarding thing to do. 293 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,800 And it's a very rewarding thing to spend your life doing really. 294 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:37,080 And don't get dragged down because, you know, it's only up to how you approach it and what 295 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:38,320 your attitude towards it. 296 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:39,920 Should we do the draft now? 297 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:41,480 Yeah, let's do it. 298 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,780 I've been thinking about this a lot. 299 00:18:43,780 --> 00:18:46,920 So I prepared, I prepared to the, so what are the rules? 300 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,280 Okay, first a little bit of context. 301 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:59,760 So in a question that a listener has posted, he challenged us to make up our dream team, 302 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,720 our A team of chefs, our dream, dream brigade. 303 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:03,920 How did he call it? 304 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,560 The draft dream, dream brigade's draft. 305 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,120 Yeah, something like that. 306 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:09,120 Yeah. 307 00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:10,120 Yeah. 308 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:11,120 So obviously what is it? 309 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:12,120 We have positions to fill. 310 00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:16,840 We have the CDC chef, the cuisine sous chef, portioner, socié, which is so, it's so 311 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:24,120 it's like sauces and meat, entre métiers, garde-manger, pastry and production. 312 00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:25,120 Okay. 313 00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:26,120 Okay. 314 00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:27,640 I did, I did, I did two different. 315 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:33,440 I did one, like the historical one, like the, the dream team of all times. 316 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,400 There are no time barriers. 317 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:41,280 It can be chefs that have died with chefs that are alive, the limpos of chefs. 318 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,040 And the other one is like contemporary and friends. 319 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,080 I would say most of them, I know them. 320 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:53,720 I think there is only one that I, it's not like a friend, but I've talked with him once. 321 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,200 And, and yeah. 322 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,280 So you want to go first or should I go first? 323 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:03,320 I have one, one position that I'm sure, cause I had an initial team and now I've changed 324 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,080 a couple of details about it. 325 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:06,080 Okay. 326 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:07,080 Okay. 327 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:08,080 Okay. 328 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:09,080 Actually, no. 329 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:10,080 Okay. 330 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:11,080 I think I have my, my team. 331 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:12,280 Do we go position by position or do we say the whole team? 332 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:13,280 I'll say the whole team. 333 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:14,280 Okay. 334 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:15,280 Good. 335 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:16,280 Okay. 336 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,000 I'll start with a, so you can gain more time also. 337 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,000 All right. 338 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:20,000 Thank you. 339 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:25,160 So the historical one, chef, the cuisine, not like head chef, like master in command 340 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:26,160 is Kofi. 341 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:34,480 I think, I think if that guy was running brigades with hundreds of chefs a hundred years ago 342 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:41,040 and he had like this quote where he said during service, I only want to listen to, to the 343 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:42,880 sweet sound of my voice. 344 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:49,480 I think that guy knew thing or two about how he actually implemented the whole brigade 345 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:50,480 system. 346 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,480 Was it him or, or he probably, that was him. 347 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:53,480 Yeah. 348 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:54,480 He probably formalized it. 349 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:55,480 Yeah. 350 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,080 Probably already existed somehow, but he made it like a thing, like a method. 351 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,080 Yeah. 352 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,080 Yeah. 353 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:02,080 Nice. 354 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:03,080 Good choice. 355 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:04,080 So that would be my, my super head chef. 356 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,520 Sous chef would be Thomas Keller kind of similar profile. 357 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,480 I think so the choice. 358 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:10,480 Yeah. 359 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:14,800 And I named a pasta chef apart from the end of it here. 360 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:21,440 I don't know if Nadia Santini or Waltiero Marchesi, like two, maybe Nadia because you 361 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,280 know, like a non-nav in making pasta. 362 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:25,280 That's very cool. 363 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,280 Properly. 364 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:27,960 That's very cool. 365 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:34,720 For the pizza, I went to like an apostate of traditional pizza, which is Wolfgang Puck. 366 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:35,720 Pizza? 367 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,680 I did a pizza station. 368 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:38,680 Yeah. 369 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,640 And my super restaurant is a pizza station. 370 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:41,640 Okay. 371 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:42,640 Okay. 372 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:43,640 All right. 373 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:44,640 Well, you're having Wolfgang Puck as your pizza chef? 374 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:50,080 He is like a renowned, he implemented like this California style of pizza. 375 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:51,080 Oh, come on. 376 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:55,200 He's got one like salmon cream fresh pizza that he's famous for. 377 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:56,480 But okay. 378 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:57,480 Okay. 379 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:58,840 Hey, it's my, it's my draft. 380 00:21:58,840 --> 00:21:59,840 Yeah. 381 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:00,840 I know. 382 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:01,840 It's yours. 383 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:02,840 Your dream restaurant. 384 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:09,960 I was thinking between Seiji Yamamoto, you know, because of racial profiling, having 385 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,200 like a Japanese. 386 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:12,200 Of course. 387 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:13,200 Yes. 388 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:14,200 Of course. 389 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:15,200 Or Josh Neeland. 390 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:16,480 Solid choice. 391 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:17,480 Very good choice. 392 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:18,480 Yes. 393 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:19,480 Of course. 394 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,280 The fucking fish wizard. 395 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:26,640 And for the grill, because I know who you're having on the grill, I would choose, man, 396 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:33,360 I don't know the name of this guy, but I see it because it's this super long Basque family 397 00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:38,840 name, but the chef at Casa Julian, you know, it's Gocho Parthegui or something like that. 398 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:39,840 Oh, yeah. 399 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,840 I know which one you mean. 400 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:43,840 Oh, grill. 401 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:44,840 Yeah. 402 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:45,840 You know, I've said I've been to Casa Julian. 403 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:51,400 Me neither, but I really, I really like like the whole concept of it. 404 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:52,400 Yeah. 405 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:53,400 Yeah, me too. 406 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:58,840 I want someone very technical and someone who really can standardize everything, but 407 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,000 at the same time be creative and audacious. 408 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,440 So I choose Heston Blumenthal as my associate. 409 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:04,440 Oh, as associate. 410 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:05,440 Really? 411 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:06,440 Wow. 412 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:13,440 Garde manger, Andoni from Margarit. 413 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,280 I think he can deal with vegetables pretty well. 414 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,080 Ante-Rometier could also be the garde manger easily. 415 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:22,400 I choose Alan Passard. 416 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:23,400 Yeah, of course. 417 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:24,400 Very, very good choice. 418 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:25,400 Patricier Pierre-Ame. 419 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:26,400 R&D Albert Adria. 420 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:37,920 And production, I want someone who, you know, who injects fuel to the whole production. 421 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,760 So I choose Marco Pierre White. 422 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,440 I can really see him as a good production chef. 423 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:43,440 And that's it. 424 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:44,440 That's it. 425 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,800 We can save the other draft for a different episode to not make it so long, the one with 426 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:49,440 Contemporary and Friends. 427 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:50,440 Okay. 428 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:51,640 All right. 429 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,320 So you also have more time to write yours. 430 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:55,320 Okay. 431 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:56,320 Okay. 432 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:57,320 Yeah. 433 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:58,560 Because I only have like an A-Team draft, you know? 434 00:23:58,560 --> 00:23:59,560 Okay. 435 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:00,560 Okay. 436 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:01,560 All right. 437 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,200 So my A-Team draft is Chef de Cuisine Pierre Agni. 438 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,520 Ah, that's a crazy kitchen. 439 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:07,520 Nice. 440 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:08,800 I like it. 441 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,920 Because I just love his energy and I feel like he'd bring a really good vibe and he'd 442 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:13,920 tie the team together. 443 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,120 He's like a crazy jazz freestylist, right? 444 00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:18,400 Yeah, exactly. 445 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:23,000 I wouldn't necessarily want him having a running section, but I think if people play the ball 446 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,000 towards him, he's really good. 447 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,000 Yeah. 448 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,640 Like a Charlie Parker of cooking. 449 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:28,640 Yeah. 450 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,680 As my sous chef, I would want Daniel Kalbhurt. 451 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:32,680 Okay. 452 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:37,000 He's actually also a Thomas Keller alumni from Per Se. 453 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:45,520 I mean, he's from Cezanne in the Four Seasons in Tokyo and he's like a super perfectionistic, 454 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,480 you know, just like a Shaolin monk of cooking. 455 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:52,480 So I feel like he'd be a perfect sous chef. 456 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:57,520 As a porcelainier, I chose, I made some changes to my original draft. 457 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,120 As a porcelainier, I choose Josh Nyland. 458 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:01,880 Yeah, nice. 459 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:07,080 Because he'll just send me, you know, he'll just send me these like perfectly cut, fucking 460 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,760 perfectly cooked, crispy pieces of fish and I'll just be happy. 461 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,360 Very happy. 462 00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:15,560 These like triangular pieces of perfect fish skin. 463 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,640 Ah, love this guy. 464 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:18,640 All right. 465 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:27,640 So grill, I have Vitor Argin Sonis, or how his surname is from Echibarri. 466 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:34,400 And as a sautier, rote seur for every other sort of meat and sauces, I've got a lot of 467 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,400 pasta. 468 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:36,400 Okay. 469 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:37,400 Nice, nice, nice. 470 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:38,400 I liked, I liked. 471 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,040 Everybody thinks, you know, you put a lot of pasta on vegetables, but no, no, no. 472 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,080 Yeah, I saw the Frankenstein he did recently. 473 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,520 Oh, but did you see the video with the lamb and the pigeon? 474 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:47,800 Yeah, I saw you posted it. 475 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:48,800 Super nice. 476 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,000 Oh my God. 477 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,880 I was so upset because I started watching it. 478 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:55,640 I was like, man, this guy, he's lost it. 479 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:56,640 He's crazy. 480 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,160 And then he cuts it and it's just fucking perfection. 481 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,800 And you're like, man, you can't be, you can't listen. 482 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:02,800 He's a genius. 483 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,600 He's an absolute genius. 484 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:10,840 The first time I knew about him and my life was this Iron Chef episode, the France special 485 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:11,840 one. 486 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:12,840 Yeah. 487 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,640 And yeah, and I remember him cooking a chicken in a very special way in that one. 488 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,120 Probably with hay and stuff. 489 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:19,120 Yeah. 490 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:20,120 Exactly. 491 00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:21,120 Yeah. 492 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:22,120 Yeah. 493 00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:24,680 He's, I think like when you see stuff like that, I really, I remember watching the video 494 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,920 and I was actually very moved because you know, it's like very easy to make fun of him 495 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,360 these days with his like chimera creations. 496 00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:35,320 But I saw that video and I was like, he's just on a different level. 497 00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,720 He's just, he is a culinary genius anyway. 498 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,440 So our Mathieu, our Mathieu, I've got Michel Bra. 499 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:44,440 Very good. 500 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:45,440 Yeah. 501 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:46,440 Nice. 502 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:47,440 I like you. 503 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:48,440 I like your draft better than mine actually. 504 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:49,440 Oh, I see. 505 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:59,200 And on Garde Manger, I have one of my all time favorite chefs and author of one of my 506 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,600 absolutely favorite cookbooks, Pascal Babou. 507 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,680 Nice, nice, nice, nice. 508 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:05,960 Very French. 509 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,040 Your draft is super French. 510 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,840 Very Parisian actually. 511 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,280 You have like at least five chefs from Paris. 512 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:13,280 Yeah. 513 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:14,280 I realized that also. 514 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:15,280 Okay. 515 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,280 Well, I'll break the mold. 516 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:26,280 On pastry, I would like somebody a little bit, um, oh, actually now I'm thinking about 517 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,280 it. 518 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,040 Just in this moment, I changed my mind about pastry. 519 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:32,200 I want on pastry. 520 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,040 I want Espen Holborn-Bang from Maimo. 521 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:36,040 Okay. 522 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,040 Norwegian. 523 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:38,040 Okay. 524 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:39,040 Okay. 525 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:40,040 Yes. 526 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,040 This is exactly the style of pastry that I like. 527 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:42,320 I don't know this guy. 528 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,320 You can make some waffles with cloudberry jam. 529 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:45,320 You don't know this guy? 530 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:46,320 Espen? 531 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:47,320 No, I'll have to check out. 532 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:48,320 But you know, Maimo, right? 533 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:49,320 Yes, of course. 534 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:50,320 Yeah. 535 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:51,320 And that's it for me. 536 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:52,320 That's my draft. 537 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:53,320 I don't have a production chef yet. 538 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:54,320 I can't decide. 539 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,400 In the next episode, we do one with contemporary chefs and friends. 540 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:58,400 Okay. 541 00:27:58,400 --> 00:27:59,400 All right. 542 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,720 It has to be people, you know, people, you know, or you work with, or at least talk to. 543 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,280 Well, that's easy enough. 544 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:10,280 That's easy enough. 545 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,320 That's it for this week's episode of potluck food talks. 546 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,160 If you like what we're doing, make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss 547 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:18,440 an episode. 548 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,440 You can also find us on Instagram and Tik Tok as potluck food talks. 549 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,440 The show airs every Monday.