1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,920 Hi everyone, welcome to Potluck Food Talks. Today I'm here with Esther Merino and we're 2 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:17,720 going to talk about drinks, mixology, traveling around the world, being a liquid gastronomy 3 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:19,720 professional. How are you Esther? 4 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,200 Hi, hello Eric. I'm very happy to be here with you. 5 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:29,560 To begin, why don't you tell us a little bit about your background? How did you begin 6 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,320 the food and drink world? 7 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:40,280 So basically it wasn't planned at all. I was studying law and then I precisely remember 8 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:47,080 IKEA opened in my city so I applied to have like a part-time job. In this case I end up 9 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:52,960 studying my last year of the bachelor of law, putting meatballs. 10 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,600 IKEA, IKEA like the furniture store? 11 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,600 Yeah, the home furnishing stores. 12 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:05,000 Okay, wow. I heard, I'm not sure if that's true, but I heard that it's the largest restaurant 13 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:11,600 chain of an European brand because most restaurant chains are, you know, American or from abroad. 14 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:17,960 Yeah, definitely. I mean, I'm not sure but it could be perfectly because like it's insane. 15 00:01:17,960 --> 00:01:18,960 It's super quick. 16 00:01:18,960 --> 00:01:23,800 And the restaurant experience is a key part of the IKEA experience I think. 17 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:30,480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. We are the ones that really are selling furnishing because we are the 18 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,560 ones that make you a stock, you eat and then you buy again. 19 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:39,560 Yeah, exactly. And also for the families and people that don't want to buy, just go to 20 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:44,080 the restaurant and spend the day there. And how was the experience working there? 21 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:49,920 Was amazing. I end up working with them for years. The process, especially the process 22 00:01:49,920 --> 00:02:00,560 of internal learning, the trainings, the empowerment there was amazing. Was one of the best experiences 23 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:09,280 in my life in those terms. And then I remember in the fourth year, I just had a big, big 24 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:16,440 training in another city, like they pay my travel, my flight, my hotel room and so on. 25 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:23,640 And then when I came back to my position, I saw that Vasculinary Center exists basically. 26 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:31,640 And then I was reading my options and I had the chance to ask for a sabbatical year to 27 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:39,840 study. So right after coming back from the training, I asked for this sabbatical year. 28 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:46,560 And of course, I was kind of nervous, kind of shaking as well, because like imagine you're 29 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:51,720 just coming from an amazing learning journey week. They pay for everything. They teach 30 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:58,720 you so many things. And then you're asking for living one year. And at the end, it was 31 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:05,000 even more awesome because I personally remember the director of the shop in Valladolid where 32 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:11,720 I was working. He told me, I'm not giving you one sabbatical year. I'm giving you four 33 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:17,960 sabbatical years to study the whole bachelor. Oh, wow. So it was amazing. And I want to 34 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:23,480 know more about the working in a restaurant in Ikea. I can imagine like the whole procedure 35 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,880 manuals. Do they look like the catalog of Ikea or the with the whole branding system 36 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:32,360 or how is it? Actually, this is an amazing question, Eric, because like normally you 37 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:40,520 will imagine like like an encyclopedia, like a big book, a thick book with a lot of information. 38 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:47,820 And of course, we had some manuals and and procedures manual. But they were very specific 39 00:03:47,820 --> 00:03:56,240 in terms of like how you manage the food safety things or how do you make a salmon roll or 40 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:03,360 things like that, like the basic protocol. But then we had an amazing internet where 41 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:10,360 you have there everything. So actually, I think is one of the keys of Ikea in this case, 42 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:17,480 because it's a real tool. You know, sometimes you have a big book that basically is having 43 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:25,720 dust in a shelf is not a is not a is not a tool. Nobody uses it. Yeah, exactly. And then 44 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:32,800 with the internet, what was way more easier, way more efficient as well. And you have whatever 45 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:38,960 you want to imagine. You you had it there. So yeah, yeah. Super cool. Like having a good 46 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:44,680 learning management system. I heard that Magnus Nielsen, did he also start at Ikea? I'm not 47 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:50,840 sure. I'm not sure. But there is like a famous Nordic chef who also started at Ikea. That's 48 00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:55,840 funny. Could be could be. I don't know. To be honest, I don't know. So then you went 49 00:04:55,840 --> 00:05:06,080 to to BCC. Yeah, I went to BCC in 2014. And then of course, I was thinking in in the chef 50 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:11,480 side, I wanted to study avant-garde cuisine and be the most amazing chef in the world 51 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:19,360 and blah, blah, blah. But then thanks to all the teachers, like we are surrounded by amazing 52 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:25,360 people running must be center. Sometimes we don't even realize how lucky we are about 53 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:31,160 all the people we know, all the people that is sharing their knowledge. So basically I 54 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:38,880 had Pilar Garcia Granero, Coro Gonzalo Parras. I know Irene Patsy and they start sharing 55 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:49,560 with me a lot of knowledge about customer interaction, service, wines. And then inside 56 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:58,760 me started to grow this feeling of like, wow, I really like to cook, but I really love to 57 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:06,160 see how the guests enjoy a drink or or an elaboration and explain it. And also like 58 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:11,800 kind of being the representant of everyone that takes part in the experience. Like I'm 59 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:17,000 representing the chef. Sometimes I'm representing the winemaker sometimes when I'm putting a 60 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:25,960 wine. So yeah, at the end in the bachelor, I decide to to continue with the avant-garde. 61 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:31,720 So as you know, in the third year, you have to choose one specialization. Yeah, just to 62 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:36,840 make a short note on that at Basque Culinary Center and the bachelor degree after the third 63 00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:42,400 year, you can choose between three specializations. It can be business and innovation. The other 64 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,680 one is food science and industry. And the other one, which is the one that Esther took 65 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:51,600 is avant-garde, which is basically working around avant-garde restaurants, high end restaurants. 66 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:59,560 Yeah. And basically since the beginning, I had to, I started to have very clear this 67 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:09,520 idea of like, wow, everything that I will say is not new anymore in kitchen is going 68 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:15,960 to be something new in the service part. So I can apply a lot of the avant-garde and cutting 69 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:22,480 edge techniques for interactions with the guests, for plating up in front of the guests 70 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:30,080 as a waiter. And also then something that really changed my mind was realizing like, 71 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:37,080 wow, if I cook liquid in front of the guests, I will have this eye of chef and I will have 72 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:45,440 this eye of service or waiter. So I will have bone within a profession that is bartending. 73 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:51,680 So yeah. Yeah. It's a pretty much neglected craft. The one of the service, front of the 74 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:59,000 house interacting with the guests. And I think it's 50% of the experience. Like it's like, 75 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:04,040 like in movies you have sound and image. It can't be just one. It has to be the combination 76 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:09,760 of both. Right. I had a lot of conversation about it. Basically one of the most important 77 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:16,280 ones for me was with the Rene and Annegret from Noma. Annegret is the, I mean, we all 78 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:24,000 know who is Rene, but Annegret is the restaurant manager, the front of the house leader. And 79 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:35,120 they were saying that a good service will save a burnt sandwich, but the most amazing 80 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:40,560 sandwich will not save a bad service. And it's totally true. 81 00:08:40,560 --> 00:08:46,560 Yeah. Yeah. I completely agree. Was it, was there a moment where, when, when you realized 82 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:52,040 that, okay, I really like doing this, being at the front of the house? 83 00:08:52,040 --> 00:09:00,760 Right after the presentation of my thesis that just to, to summarize, I ended up being 84 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:06,040 with an anthropologist in Barcelona analyzing the human behavior around cocktail bars. It 85 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:11,840 was super interesting, but imagine even my family, I perfectly remember my father saying 86 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:21,560 like, okay, yes, there, low, then chef, then front of the house, then bartender. And now 87 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:26,720 you are with an anthropologist. Like, yeah, well, that anthropologist, his name is Sergio 88 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:33,840 Hill. Yeah. And he's the one who coined the term gastropology, which is a merge between 89 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:41,480 anthropology and gastronomy. And in his, he uses his restaurant as a lab to understand 90 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:48,160 precisely interaction with guests or how the ecosystem of a neighborhood works specifically. 91 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:49,880 It's super interesting. Everything he does. 92 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:55,880 Yeah. Basically it's like a, like a social laboratory where you can analyze really the 93 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:02,160 human behavior with food, but also the human behavior itself, because a bar is something 94 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:09,680 that is semi-private and semi-public. So yeah, yeah. You get a lot of amazing information 95 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:15,960 and like actual information that you could not get from anywhere else or from any other 96 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:23,520 discipline. So yeah, I learned a lot and yeah, I was, I was answering my father. Like I know 97 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:30,080 I have to specialize, but the right now I have the feeling that I need to explore more. 98 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:38,560 Right. And your thesis was, what was the topic of your thesis? Wow. To make it a short story. 99 00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:46,880 It's called the floating host. Okay. Wow. And it's based on analyzing the role of a 100 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:55,440 waiter or a bartender, because sometimes we are managing things that the, from the guest 101 00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:01,440 will be totally unnoticed, but it will be a hundred percent changing the experience. 102 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:09,480 Like imagine that you have, for example, the first date and then as a bartender or as a 103 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:15,000 waiter, I can feel that there is a little bit of distance between you both. And then 104 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:21,480 I change a little bit the temperature of the light or I put a candle or I change, I change 105 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:30,840 the music in a more relaxed or romantic one. So that thing will change your experience 106 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:36,760 because you will be more relaxed and we'll start talking with your date and so on. But 107 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:44,480 it's something completely unnoticed. You will not be aware about if I'm changing the music 108 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:51,440 or not or who is the one managing that. Yeah. So all these fat, all this management of intangibles 109 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:58,640 make us be a floating host that is floating. Yeah. That's super interesting. Yeah. I mentioned, 110 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:03,320 I think we did an episode on restaurant user experience and I mentioned this experiments 111 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:10,360 of Charles Pence where he would use music in supermarkets and in the wine section with 112 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:15,480 Italian music, people would walk by more Italian wine and Spanish music, more Spanish wine. 113 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,960 But this is something nobody notices. It's just the results, the numbers, you know, and 114 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,480 it's super interesting. Going back to the beginning, I have to say, for example, in 115 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:29,960 Ikea, they had studied that since the beginning, like we are not inventing something new at 116 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:35,360 all. Of course. I'm sure. I'm pretty sure that big companies like Ikea know exactly 117 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:41,880 which music to put to enhance sales. Because I personally remember one, one manual of like 118 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:48,520 the type of music we have to put it. The shop was empty or full or packed or yeah. Yeah. 119 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:54,120 It's psychology. Exactly. Then you also worked, you went to the Philippines and you worked 120 00:12:54,120 --> 00:13:00,760 with Chelle Gallery. Yeah. How was that? How did you end up there? Wow. Because actually 121 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:06,440 one of my best friends, I'm from Valladolid and she's from Valladolid. Her name is called 122 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:13,360 Julia. She fell in love with a guy from the Philippines and now she's happily married 123 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:20,000 with two kids. And I really wanted to visit her because she was talking a lot about the 124 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:27,440 biodiversity of the Philippines, the different ingredients and the different parts and Iceland 125 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:34,000 and so on. And I really wanted to to know more about it. Right. And then I start looking 126 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:41,960 for places to go and I found out Chelle and of course Chelle has an amazing CV. I mean, 127 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:50,480 he's been from Nerua to El Bulli to Mugaritz. Yeah. Mugaritz. Many different restaurants 128 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:58,800 in Spain and in the world. And then he, he opened a gallery and like since the beginning, 129 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:06,120 he was like super successful in the Philippines as a chef, like trying to enhance and showcase 130 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:10,200 the biodiversity of the Philippines. So yeah, I decided to go with him. Yeah. The concept 131 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:17,280 of the restaurant is, as you say, is enhancing the territory, right? Like they work with, 132 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:22,000 if I'm not wrong, only local products, only products from the Philippines in a very avant 133 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:28,560 garde way. Exactly. And it's, I think it was back at a time he was very clever because 134 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:35,720 he was presenting something familiar in an unfamiliar way. Like for example, he was using 135 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:40,360 toasted sticky rice or like whatever, like a local produce from the Philippines, but 136 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:48,040 he was using flavors that for or ways to cook that for him were familiar, but not for, for 137 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:55,840 the Philippines. So a lot of techniques and combinations from the north of Spain, specifically 138 00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:03,160 from Cantabria, but also from Basque Country and Asturias and so on. So he was mixing very 139 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:11,400 well the produce with techniques that he knew that worked well together, but were very unknown 140 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:17,440 and not common in the Philippines. In the Philippines, you say the spring rolls are 141 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:22,320 called lumpias, right? Lumpias. Yeah. That's funny because in Venezuela you say lumpias 142 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:28,440 as well. And in the rest of the world, the Spanish speaking world, you say spring rolls, 143 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:34,080 the literal translation. Yeah. And I was recently in Singapore and I saw this, I found out that 144 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,620 lumpia is a Philippine word and I was like, wow, this is crazy because I don't know how 145 00:15:38,620 --> 00:15:44,120 that word came only to Venezuela. I want to find that out. It will be very interesting 146 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:50,680 to see from the anthropological perspective because it's totally linked. The Philippines 147 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:59,880 was, I'm going to say discovered. It was a Spanish colony, right? For a long time. Yeah, 148 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:06,040 exactly. It was a Spanish colony. We ended up there in the same way that we ended up 149 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:14,720 in Latin America. I'm not going to be very proud of that, but well, at the end we were 150 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:22,440 there and the Philippines, the Islands were super important because it was a base for 151 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:31,280 the commerce exchange. So it was one of the principal points to go to America, take some 152 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:37,840 produce, then stop in the Philippines and then continue. Okay. It was like a key logistic 153 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:42,560 point. Exactly. Okay. And then you can see, for example, in the Philippines, one of the 154 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:50,800 most traditional dishes is care care, which is like an oxtail cooked in a kind of a Spanish 155 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:59,160 style, but with a cashew nut sauce. And then it has a chote as well. And for me it's like, 156 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:06,120 wow, it's super representative. This mixture of cultures and yeah, like you have a chote 157 00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:12,440 that is from Latin America. You have an elaboration that is mainly from Spain and it's cooked 158 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:18,280 in a Spanish style. And then you have the cashew nuts and another herbs that are more 159 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:23,640 typical from the Philippines. So it's a very good example of this mixture. And I'm totally 160 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:28,760 sure that lumpia will be something like that for sure. Yeah. I'm also sure about that. 161 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:33,080 I have this friend, Ivan Bram. I interviewed him. He has this restaurant in Singapore called 162 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:41,440 Nouri and what he does is he focuses on what he calls crossroads cooking or crossroads gastronomy. 163 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:48,440 And this is an exact example of that, of this foods traveling across the world and meeting 164 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:54,000 in a specific point and creating this new combinations of flavors in a kind of organic 165 00:17:54,000 --> 00:18:00,140 way, not forced. And all of his developments are like this. He actually has in his research 166 00:18:00,140 --> 00:18:05,480 and development side of the restaurant, only anthropologists to kind of find these, these 167 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,880 type of stories. That's amazing. It's also interesting to know that the San Miguel beer, 168 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,640 which is one of the major brands in Spain, it was created in the Philippines. So if you 169 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,920 go there, there's a lot of San Miguel beer, right? 170 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:23,200 A lot. And also San Miguel owns not only the beer, if not like, sorry about it, but the 171 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:29,240 CTS gin that you can found in a 7-Eleven or things like that. Also, I mean, they are huge 172 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:37,600 in the Philippines. And, and also it's very common to see, for example, Torres. And I 173 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:44,240 remember in 2016 that it was the first time I was in the Philippines. Brandy wasn't a 174 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:51,560 thing in Spain. It was like very, uh, in decadence, let's say. And, uh, and in the Philippines 175 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:56,400 was like totally the opposite. And I was like, wow, really? They are drinking more brandy 176 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:04,960 than us. Like that, that should mean something. And we have to realize like, why? So yeah. 177 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:11,320 Yeah. Like poppies colonial consequences probably. And there is a lot of words in Spanish, like 178 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:18,080 Cuchara, Bano, Toalla. That are also related to the Philippines. Yeah. Yeah. Are part of 179 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:24,040 the, uh, it's called Tagalog, the language in the Philippines. I mean, you have, it's 180 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:32,560 very difficult. I remember, for example, to say hello, how are you? It's like, uh, so 181 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:38,800 nothing related with Spanish, I think. A little bit. That's, I'm like, yeah. The, the accent, 182 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:45,680 the way you pronounce, and like some words, specifically, Kelly, I remember Cuchara, Toalla, 183 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:53,080 Bano are the same. Okay. Then you went also to Noma? Yeah. That was like after finishing 184 00:19:53,080 --> 00:20:00,880 the bachelor and then working during almost two years in Vascularity Center as a freelance 185 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,520 counselor with Pachi Tritino, that was my partner as well. Then I decide, I basically 186 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:11,400 decide to go to Copenhagen. I asked to have three months to go to Copenhagen to analyze 187 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:17,200 something that I really wanted to analyze. That was the touch points between front of 188 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:23,640 the houses and sustainability. So analyzing the touch points between our daily activities 189 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:32,760 and how is the importance of that or the impact in sustainability. So I asked to be at a mass 190 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:38,240 for that. And then I asked to be at Noma for that as well. And then when I finished these 191 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,840 three months in both the restaurants doing this kind of internship, they offered me a 192 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:52,160 position and then I was at Noma like few time, but very short time because it happened the 193 00:20:52,160 --> 00:21:01,640 first lockdown in Denmark. So I have to say I was very lucky because they opened Poppel. 194 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:07,080 So all of us, we went to start working with Poppel and imagine when Rene told me like, 195 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:12,720 okay, is there... Poppel is this burger place? Yeah. Okay. It's like a fancy burger place 196 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:17,680 and... I mean, it's more like a casual restaurant. It's not a burger place anymore because at 197 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:22,100 the beginning, of course, in the pandemic was only about the burgers. But right now, 198 00:21:22,100 --> 00:21:26,640 for me, it's one of my favorite restaurants about the sites, about the way they cook veggies 199 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:32,320 and seasonal food is insanely good. Okay. I had it on my list. I was recently in Copenhagen. 200 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:39,440 I didn't visit the Poppel. I went to a few other restaurants. It's great. It's super 201 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:45,320 tasty, super delicious. And also like you can feel that it's like a casual Noma. Like 202 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:50,600 the way they cook the veggies, all the sites are, I mean, the burger is very good, of course, 203 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:56,480 but the way they cook the sites, the vegetables is amazing. And then yeah, Rene told me like, 204 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:01,120 okay, is that all the ingredients that we have from the Noma fermentation lab? Do you 205 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:05,960 want to use them for cocktails? And I was like, like Halle's in Wonderland, you know, 206 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:12,440 like wow. Disneyland, of course. Yeah. So you were developing cocktails for Noma during 207 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,520 the lockdown. This was at the beginning, I was a part of the front of the house waiter 208 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:23,720 at Noma. And then after, I think it was 17, 20 days, it happened, the lockdown, I went 209 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:31,280 to, to Poppel and together with Francesca Niro, I start building up the concept of the, 210 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:39,560 of everything that was in wine. So from non-alcoholic drinks, mocktails, juices, and of course cocktails. 211 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:44,100 And then also it was very challenging because, because of course we had to create everything 212 00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:52,340 for takeaway, but I've learned so much back at a time, like so much, the way you can make 213 00:22:52,340 --> 00:22:59,200 so much money, giving accessibility to the most of the population to amazing ingredients 214 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:06,240 from the Noma fermentation lab and also how to use them. I remember we had a, a very successful 215 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:11,400 drink that was called a Bloody Frankie that was based on the flavor profile of our Bloody 216 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,680 Mary. And it was pretty bad. So it was in a bottle and then you buy it and you drink 217 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:23,880 it at home or wherever you want. And the ingredients were, were left over fermented plum juice, 218 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:30,200 left over fermented cherry juice, saffron kombucha, like ingredients like, like that. So nothing 219 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:31,200 related at all. 220 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:38,320 Nice. That sounds amazing. Nothing related at all with, with Bloody Mary, but the combination 221 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:45,160 and the way we presented linking with the Bloody Mary made, made it very successful. 222 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:51,320 Like yeah, we were doing the opposite, the opposite as we were talking with Chele. We 223 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:56,320 present something unfamiliar in a familiar way. So through the concept of Bloody Mary, 224 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:03,640 we create this cocktail and was so delicious and super successful. Like I was, I was learning 225 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:08,760 a lot about like, wow, I'm bottling so much quantity of this stuff and we are selling 226 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:14,800 a lot and people really like it. And like, yeah, alcohol became like a common holy during 227 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:19,440 the lockdowns. Of course, of course, but we have both the alcoholic and non-alcoholic 228 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:25,320 and also the learning process of like the shelf life, the way you present the packaging. 229 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,680 Were you, were you also doing cans or only bottles? 230 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:37,280 Only bottles. I was, I was going, uh, my day off, I was going to Empirical to, to just 231 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:43,440 for like, like in my, in my free time, just to learn how to use the big wiki, the big 232 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:44,440 equipment. 233 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:54,440 Okay. So just to explain, Empirical is a company that was started by two ex, uh, the, the, 234 00:24:54,440 --> 00:25:00,280 the work in the Nordic Food Lab and also in the R&D of, of Noma. And they started this 235 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:05,520 company, uh, creating spirits in a, in a way that no one has seen before, because they 236 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:12,320 started making a crossover of, uh, traditional distilling techniques of the West of Europe 237 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:18,280 and mixing them with, uh, fermentation techniques of, of the Japanese and other cultures. Uh, 238 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,960 for instance, it wants to, to, you used to make sake and combining this all to create 239 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,560 new crazy ways of doing liquors, which is amazing. 240 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:30,320 Yeah, yeah. They, they started creating new categories every week. Every time they presented 241 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,920 something, it was a new category, something that you couldn't say that was gin or whiskey 242 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:40,920 or any like traditional category, let's say. And also like missing this, say amazing techniques 243 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:46,700 and innovation. So yeah, I wanted to learn from them. Uh, they, they've been such an 244 00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:54,320 inspiration for me and yeah. And then I, I, I was going in my day off just to learn, just 245 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:59,800 to help them and learn how to use a different equipment. And there we were doing cans and 246 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,320 I mean the cans of empirical are delicious, are super delicious. 247 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:09,440 Yeah. I've tried a few of their drinks and it's always something impressive and different 248 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:15,800 and new. Yeah. I'm a, I'm a big fan. You also mentioned Amaz. Uh, what were you doing at 249 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:21,200 Amaz? Amaz was, was the first play where I started this project about analyzing the touch 250 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:27,240 points between sustainability and front of the house. And also of course, like it was 251 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:34,040 always an inspiration, especially Matt Orlando, that the, I met him when he came to Basque 252 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:44,320 Culinary Center and I fall in love with the, with the insights and the mindset he has about 253 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:51,520 sustainability. Uh, and then I went there, I asked him to do this kind of internship, 254 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:56,760 just being with the front of the house team, but analyzing all the daily activities. And 255 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:04,800 I, again, I learned so much also not only about like the main thing that I was going 256 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:12,960 based on the analysis, if not like the most simple things that normally are unnoticed 257 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,840 because they are super simple and normally like you don't think about them. And yeah, 258 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:25,680 like it totally changed my way to think in terms of sustainability in Amaz because also 259 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:32,600 for me, it was the first time I found a place where front of the house was totally involved 260 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:37,960 in sustainability in the daily activities of the restaurant. And also the first time 261 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:46,000 or the best example of a chef taking in count the importance or the importance of front 262 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,000 of the house. 263 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:53,720 Yeah, like the, the, also the game changing thing they did, uh, I can think of very few 264 00:27:53,720 --> 00:28:01,160 restaurants where the key value proposal is waste cooking and using things that are usually 265 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:06,720 discarded and turning them into something delicious. And also Matt Orlando is a chef 266 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,520 with an incredible background. He was head chef at Noma and Perse in different times. 267 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:16,680 So like two of the best restaurants in the world. I must recently close. I went to the, 268 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:22,160 to the venue where is a spora right now. And I know that Matt Orlando is traveling precisely 269 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,920 in Singapore or Philippines or somewhere. 270 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:32,200 He opened, he is based on, I had a very good relationship with him and he's in Singapore. 271 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:37,480 He opened together with Will Golfer. Air is called. 272 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:42,760 Yeah, exactly. Ivan Bram did a dinner recently with them. That's how I found out. 273 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:53,640 Yeah. And like a basically he's there building up the same concept as we, uh, you could find 274 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:59,000 at a mass, but there, and also I have to say Singapore right now is an amazing city and 275 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:05,240 an amazing example of like how you can support gastronomy and using gastronomy as a, as a 276 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:12,840 key factor for changing society and helping society to be more aware about environment, 277 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,880 climate change and eating delicious and healthy. 278 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,800 Yeah. It's a, it's an interesting story because Singapore created a strategy called 30 by 279 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:30,520 30. Uh, they want to buy 2030 produce a 30% of their, of their food or, and they have 280 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:36,000 like many, many very ambitious goals. Um, they know that they can't be like a major 281 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:41,440 player in food production worldwide because they're so little, but they can be a major 282 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:47,880 player in food technology. Yeah. Like creating patents or even seeds or completely different 283 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:54,160 things. And so the, there is a, like a government foundation called Temasek, which is heavily 284 00:29:54,160 --> 00:30:01,040 investing in all kinds of developments around food. So anyone that has a food startup now 285 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,880 and goes there will, will get funding for sure for different things because there is 286 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,160 a lot of funds being granted right now. 287 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:15,560 Yeah. And like he's working. I mean, it's great. As you said, such a tiny city right 288 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:21,440 now is like, is there one of the biggest examples of this strategy? 289 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:28,080 Yeah. I know it was a super interesting, uh, traveling there. Then you ended up in Alchemist. 290 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,360 Uh, how did you, how, how did that happen? 291 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:41,680 Uh, basically I remember Licky and Rasmus were sometimes going to Poppe and then I remember 292 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:49,160 one time I was like super excited because I had a new drink and I saw Licky and Rasmus 293 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:55,920 coming for the takeaway. And, uh, I don't know why, because I never talked with her 294 00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:04,240 before. I knew he was here, but we never talked. And then I went, I ran until, uh, the car 295 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:09,240 and I gave her, Oh, Licky, please. I would love you to try this new cocktail and give 296 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:16,560 me feedback. And then two weeks later they announced that they were looking for, uh, 297 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:24,880 for, for somebody to, to have this role about the fermentation at the Alchemist. And, uh, 298 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:32,080 I didn't notice that because they were asking, and like, um, through Instagram and through 299 00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:39,280 different, uh, uh, social media announcing that. But then one time in this case, Diego 300 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,720 Prado told me like, you know, that Licky asked me about you because they are looking for 301 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:50,360 somebody and they think you are perfect and blah, blah, blah. And, uh, and yeah. And 302 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:55,600 then I decided to apply and see, I perfectly remember the day we did the first meeting. 303 00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:01,140 He was saying me like, you were so excited and so motivated with your little bottle asking 304 00:32:01,140 --> 00:32:07,880 me to try it. That I always keep that in mind. And, uh, and yeah, I mean, it was very hard 305 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:14,440 for me. I remember when I left the Poppele in this case, I was crying like a baby. I 306 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:21,080 mean, I consider no man like, but when still my family, like Alchemist is as well. Uh, 307 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:27,360 but I mean, working from Monday to Friday, from nine to five with all these equipment, 308 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:33,120 uh, having the freedom to create, being at Alchemist, learning from amazing professionals. 309 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,800 I mean, Alchemist has to be one of the best equipped kitchens in the world for sure. Right. 310 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:44,560 Right. That's in the top five for sure. For sure. And for example, specifically my role, 311 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:53,600 it only a six at Alchemist at least back at a time having somebody just to be on the fermentation 312 00:32:53,600 --> 00:33:01,320 for drinks and in distillation, it will, I mean, right now I only still know Alchemist 313 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:07,080 like having this specific position. So you were developing drinks for the menu or, or 314 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:12,920 exactly what? At the beginning was based on doing the Misanplus and producing for, uh, 315 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:17,480 the non-alcoholic paintings, like mainly one that is called Botanica. So I was doing all 316 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:23,560 the fermentation from kombucha, water kefir and so on. And then I was very lucky because 317 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:31,920 I had a college called, uh, Marie Marie back at a time was the, uh, head bartender. And 318 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:38,640 of course they had an amazing equipment and I had 50% of my time to do R&D and 50% of 319 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:44,680 my time to do the production and the Misanplus. So I start to play a little bit. And of course 320 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:50,320 from, uh, Basculinari Center and especially working with Patti Tritino, I knew how to 321 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:55,960 use the Rota Ballon, how to distill. So I start playing around and I remember the first 322 00:33:55,960 --> 00:34:01,920 day I distill a pistachio spirit and I present to Marie like, Hey Marie, look at that. It's 323 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:07,200 delicious. And she was like, wow, I'm going to use that for a cocktail in the, in the 324 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:14,200 menu. So we start like very naturally without thinking about it, working like that. I was 325 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:19,440 the stealing things or presenting new things and Marie was integrating those things in 326 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:24,880 the cocktail menu, both in the lounge and in the, in the balcony. So at the beginning 327 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:33,080 and at the end of the experience at Alchemist. So, I mean, I love it because without planning 328 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,600 is like me and the company, we create this position because at the beginning was only 329 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:44,000 fermentation, but at the end I was fermented drinks and craft spirit at Alchemist. So both 330 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:50,360 extremes like alcohol and non-alcohol. Yeah. And was amazing. That sounds really, really 331 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:57,160 amazing. Were you also working in the front of the house or only in the back and the R&D? 332 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:03,960 No, I was working in the back. I did service for a month, something like that because a 333 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:10,040 colleague, Nina, the head of the Summiliers, she was going to a competition. And then also 334 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:16,160 it was very important for me to be in the service this month because back at a time, 335 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:21,840 I started being in charge also of the creation of all the cocktails because Marie left. And 336 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:28,120 then it was very good for me to, to see how the guests experience the cocktails, how the 337 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:32,560 guests behave, the feedback and so on. And also very good to be on the service because 338 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:39,160 you learn the timings, the procedures. If, if perhaps, I don't know, a kombucha is better 339 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:45,200 to serve in another type of class or yeah. So I was a month, I was, I learned a lot as 340 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:51,880 well and like was very important for me to be, to be, to have this month. 341 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:57,880 How many Summiliers are in Alchemist? Wow, a lot right now. I'm not sure, but before 342 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:09,360 I left, they were seven. And then, I mean, in front of the house, they were like 29,30 343 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:18,160 for 48 people, four days a week. Wow. Incredible. But the level of, I mean, the level of study 344 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:24,720 and professionalism and concentration of like, you have really to be focused when you are 345 00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:31,440 in front of the house in a Alchemist. You have to study just to, to understand like 346 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:37,320 the different steps, the different, the different impressions that you are going to explain 347 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:45,520 to the guests. So just for putting a foot or a feet in, in, in the service room at Alchemist, 348 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:51,000 you have to study a lot. I never seen that anywhere. It's because I'm normal. For example, 349 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:55,560 we had a lot of training, but it was very different. It was more about how to approach 350 00:36:55,560 --> 00:37:03,280 the guests. We had trainings about the wines, trainings about, for example, the wild duck 351 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:10,200 and how are the parts and like the origin of that and so on. Or for example, another 352 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:22,560 one about how we can change our way to speak and our sound depending on a guest that is 353 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,640 from Asia or depending on a guest that is from the Mediterranean or from the North 354 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:33,560 of Europe. So yeah, it was more based on that, the training, but at Alchemist it was like, 355 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:40,120 we have a special language just with symbols and the hands, just to communicate with it. 356 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:46,080 With each other and you have to study that. Like hand signs. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. 357 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:52,160 And now you're working as a drink developer, like as an R&D freelance or what are you doing 358 00:37:52,160 --> 00:38:00,360 exactly? Yeah, right now I'm freelance. I'm working mostly in academia. I still go in 359 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:07,120 a lot to Baspronari Center for master classes, then doing scientific articles as well. It's 360 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:13,240 something that I really like. And then the other part is beverage development and the 361 00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:21,360 third part is consultancy. So these three different parts right now are the ones that 362 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:28,440 I'm working on, but specifically I think academia for me is the one that I enjoy the most. And 363 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:34,480 then of course the beverage development, because you learn, you know, new things, you meet 364 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:41,440 people, you know, new ingredients, new techniques, and it's super inspiring. Your profile reminds 365 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:50,080 me of this cocktail place that Grand Acats opened in Chicago, Aviary, which is a cocktail 366 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,360 place. But the interesting thing is that, I don't know if it sells just like that, but 367 00:38:53,360 --> 00:39:00,320 I know that there were no bartenders. It were chefs doing cocktails, like with high-end 368 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:05,080 or avant-garde culinary techniques and turning them into the liquid world. That's kind of 369 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:11,520 also like your profile somehow. I don't know. I'm very glad, very happy that you think that. 370 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:18,160 Thank you very much, Eddie. But yeah, I mean, Aviary changed everything. Aviary was the 371 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:24,560 first place, not only about what you are saying about like the approach of a chef mind into 372 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:31,080 giving more quality and more overall about like the performance and procedures within 373 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:37,520 a cocktail. Because sometimes a cocktail is like, yeah, half a line, shake it, but how 374 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:43,360 much time do I have to shake it? What is going to be the dilution, the alcohol by volume? 375 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:51,600 So it wasn't very precise and Aviary changed that. But when the first book of Aviary was 376 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:59,720 like a game changer, because they start approaching the recipes with a chef mindset. So actually 377 00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:04,880 it was the first time you had the same units of measure in a cocktail. That for me was 378 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:12,080 amazing because I was so frustrated like why we mix bad spoons with drops, with centiliters, 379 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:19,880 with ounces, with grams, with a splash of... Yeah. And then appeared the first book of 380 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:26,200 Aviary that was a game changer. And especially the other one that is called Zero that they 381 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:33,280 released a little bit more than two years ago, that they start also a methodology of 382 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:39,680 creating mocktails because they realized like it wasn't at the same level. Like people that 383 00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:45,280 pay $10 for a cocktail wasn't at the same level of quality, the guy that was paying 384 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:53,320 $10 for a mocktail. So they present this book sharing a methodology to create different 385 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:59,280 layers of complexity within the non-alcoholic cocktails and new techniques for like reaching 386 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:06,360 a good flavor, a good persistency and so on. And also was again a game changer. So yeah, 387 00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:11,440 I think it couldn't be Eric, you put the best example. 388 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:16,320 It also comes to my mind, El Bulli, they also did like edible cocktails and these kinds 389 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:21,000 of things in the appetizing section. I never went to El Bulli, but I read a lot and saw 390 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,000 a lot of things. 391 00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:27,520 No, you're totally right. El Bulli was the one that started everything, but the game 392 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:34,600 changer was Aviary because it was an actual place, an actual cocktail bar. But literally 393 00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:40,840 before El Bulli, nobody was aware about like having cocktails in a degustation menu. Perhaps 394 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:45,520 if somebody asked for it, yeah, the classic cocktails, but not like El Bulli did. And 395 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:56,480 also something that amazed me is El Bulli from 1998 start to documentate all the cocktails 396 00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,640 in the same way they did the documentation for the food. 397 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:06,720 Well, you have the 455 that is the, I think this number is for, I don't know if it's the 398 00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:14,000 whiskey sour pastilla or the hot frozen gin fish. But anyways, they start to treat at 399 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:19,360 the same level of importance, cocktails and food. And also every time they were presenting 400 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:24,680 a new technique, they were applying in food and in cocktails. So for example, the hot 401 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:31,200 foam, it was in an elaboration, in a culinary elaboration, but also it was in this case 402 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:37,240 in the hot frozen gin fish where you have a cocktail with two temperatures that imagine 403 00:42:37,240 --> 00:42:44,560 when they present in 2000. So you imagine the wine going in 2000, having a cocktail 404 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,360 with two textures and two temperatures. 405 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:53,040 Something from another planet. Absolutely. Yeah. That's crazy. How is your creative process? 406 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:58,040 If you, if you are to develop a new drink, what's your starting point? Could you share 407 00:42:58,040 --> 00:42:59,540 like an example? 408 00:42:59,540 --> 00:43:06,040 So always my starting point is say the anthropological perspective. As I told you before, like since 409 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:14,360 I met anthropology, uh, is something I will never get rid of. It changed my way of, uh, 410 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:20,960 see the things. And I always start analyzing the relation between, uh, humans with this 411 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:26,560 technique or the ingredient or the concept I want to develop. And then once I define 412 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:33,440 that I start to look into more the food science part in terms of the technique, the reactions, 413 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:40,640 the behavior, the technological properties that I can apply from a, from a ingredient. 414 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:46,760 And, uh, for example, one example, because I always put the same examples and today I 415 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:53,680 want to put a new one. So it's called a cocktail called Viva Mexico because as a Spanish, I 416 00:43:53,680 --> 00:44:02,160 invented a way to say, I'm sorry to Latin America because, uh, what we did when we conquer, 417 00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:09,480 uh, Latin America and, or discover, let's say through a cocktail. So through Viva Mexico, 418 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,560 I was, uh, taking the concept of the meal, but that is something that you will find in 419 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:21,520 Mexico of course, but also in Venezuela, in Columbia, in many different other, uh, parts 420 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:30,040 and then taking corn Chile, habanero and tamarind and hibiscus as the main ingredients, super 421 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:36,400 super Mexican ingredients. Yeah. So here the goal was like not to use a orange or lemon 422 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:41,800 at all. So all the acidity of the cocktail was coming from the tamarind and the hibiscus. 423 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:48,560 Then I did vacuum distilled Chile, habanero spirit, distilling habanero based on alcohol 424 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:53,000 and then distilling habanero vinegar and then doing a blend between both of them because 425 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:59,360 capsaicin is not volatile. So you will not have all the spiciness. You will be able to 426 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:07,360 feel the cucumber, the watermelon, the melon that the, this, uh, Chile has itself. That's 427 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:13,320 the one I tried at your place last time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was incredible. Yeah. Super 428 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:19,240 good. And then mix with the tamarind and the hibiscus. And then on, on the top was a corn 429 00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:27,960 foam with a smoked bark to have this kind of corn smoky flavor profile also with different 430 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:33,720 texture. And yeah, it was a way to say, I'm sorry through the concept of milpa and as 431 00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:40,080 a Spanish in Latin America. 432 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:44,520 That's it for this week's episode of potluck food talks. If you like what we're doing, 433 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:48,960 make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. You can also find us 434 00:45:48,960 --> 00:46:10,680 on Instagram and Tik TOK as potluck food talks. The show airs every Monday.