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Hi everyone, welcome to potluck food talks.

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Today we're going to talk about, I don't know, suggest a topic, Phil.

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What are we going to talk about today?

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It's gonna catch me off guard like that.

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We're going to talk about Copenhagen again.

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Ah, okay.

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Okay, about my recent trip to Copenhagen.

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Yeah, because there's more to say about Copenhagen, I think.

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Yeah, and I also wanted to share my experience.

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You know, man, I had bad experiences in the two most hyped places of my lineup of restaurants, which were Beast and Bar.

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You know, both of these places are places that chefs talk about and recommend and hype and everything.

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And these were the two that didn't work out and all the other that were for me previously unknown places work perfectly well.

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I'm not sure if it's something psychologically related, for sure it is, with expectations.

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And I actually can pretty well elaborate on that in the case of Beast.

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So like, I want to hear your opinion on this.

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So, how could I put this?

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I once went to a lecture with Laura Vazquez.

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She's like an outstanding sensory analysis researcher at Vazquilinari Center.

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And she was kind of explaining.

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She used to work at big beer companies and they would get like consumer insights through different methodologies.

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And her job was to translate all those insights into the marketing team, you know,

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so that the marketing team actually empathizes and delivers the messages that the end user, consumer or client wants to understand or have, or like the key messages.

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So I think what happened at Beast, there was like a super strong discrepancy between the messages I got and the experience I had.

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And that's why I was unable to enjoy it.

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I mentioned a few episodes ago that I was really wanting to go to Beast.

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It was actually the only place I was revisiting my second time in Copenhagen.

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And I was going there for the second time.

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The first time I was working with a miserable salary and just kind of surviving there with the few money I had to.

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And I had like a super nice experience.

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And I remember having one of the best pizzas in my life.

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This time what happened is, so I make my booking and just after the booking, I get a newsletter signed by Puglisi.

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And it said something like, Beast and Mirabel are responding to the trend in Copenhagen, restaurants seeing of lowering prices due to recent economic challenges.

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We're committing to making the restaurants accessible to a variety of customers, including families and students.

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So we want to make everything cheap.

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And I was like, OK, nice, because Copenhagen is kind of like an expensive city.

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We were on a budget, you know, like we didn't want to any Michelin star restaurant just to smart, casual, smart choice places, you know, like picking good places to have nice experiences for a good price.

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So and I was actually also transmitting this message to my companion and the strip.

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And it was like, yeah, this is going to be the cheapest place and the trip, you'll see.

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And why a pizza place? You'll see.

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It's a you know, it was all like me, like kind of promoting the place.

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So we arrive and the host, you know, he shows us our table and gives us the menu and the menu.

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There were only like two options.

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And he says, you can choose between this and this.

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And he leaves and we look at each other like, what is this?

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And we see and there was menu one menu two.

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And we're like, OK, and we see the price and it was not like cheap at all.

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And we're like, OK, OK, let's go for the menu.

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OK, let's pick this one.

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Then another waiter comes and you have to choose a pizza for the menu.

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OK, there's a QR code.

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We enter the QR code, check for the pizza.

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My companion chooses one.

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I choose another one.

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OK, these are our pizza.

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No, no, no, you have to choose one for both.

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So like already at this point, everything was like, I'm very uncomfortable, you know.

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Like, OK, and we choose and the menu starts.

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And then I suddenly realize, you know, where the pizzas were, that was the a la carte.

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You could go through the QR code.

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And I really had this feeling that we were like induced to buy a menu through a cheap sales tactic.

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And that really made me unable to enjoy the experience.

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I never came here for a fucking menu.

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And would I have been communicated properly, I would have done what I wanted to do.

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I actually had a draft to write an article about the pizzas because I just to train my

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foot writing and I thought this was a cool exercise and then suddenly food starts to arrive.

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It was a lot of food.

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To be honest, there was nothing spectacular except for Stracciatella, which was fucking amazing, by the way.

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It was a stracciatella with pickled mushrooms and sage.

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Super nice.

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And everything else, I mean, cold cuts.

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We were from Spain.

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Vegetables.

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Sorry, I don't care if there were grown by Sicilian widow with just one eye.

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There were just nice vegetables.

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We've worked in vegetable dresser.

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And then the pizza arrived.

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We were already full.

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It was really not what I wanted.

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And then when the bill comes, it was more expensive than the experience we had the night before at Marfan Ven.

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And for me, it was like there's no way we're paying more here than for what we had before.

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It's not comparable.

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It was just so much better, like really well thought dishes, like not rusty, like almost fine dining.

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And my companion looks at me and tells me this is a joke.

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At the moment we were eating, I see like, oh, look, there is a recognition that this is one of the top 10 pizzas in Europe.

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And my companion tells me, and here we are eating cold cuts.

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And also on top of that, like just two days later, Puglisi posts on his Instagram making like a big deal about his menu with a QR code.

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Oh, this is half menu, half QR code.

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And I was like, to summarize, food was good, service fucked us.

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You know, like would have the service communicated properly.

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And I would have really enjoyed the experience and actually choose what I wanted to choose.

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A lot of people tells me like people expect you to know this kind of thing.

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You should have known, like you should ask to clarify if there is a menu or a card or this kind of thing.

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And I partly agree on that.

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But I mean, like if I go to a restaurant, I don't want to be proactive looking to not being fucked.

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Like, I don't know what are your thoughts on this whole thing?

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No, totally. I mean, like I don't agree with the whole sort of like, oh, you should know.

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It's like, no, fuck you.

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Like, this is not some weird speak easy where I have to give the password to get in, you know.

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And it's like, even if you know what the restaurant is about and if you arrive, you are kind of like giving yourself into the hands of the service.

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You're not suspicious of anything.

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Like, you're just kind of trusting in the experience, you know, and you can know that this is a pizza place and stuff.

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But if then somebody comes and tells you, hey, you have to choose one of these, then you're going to be like, oh, well, if the waiter, if the host tells me this, then I guess that's what it is.

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You know, then maybe I made a mistake or whatever, you know, that that guy, that guy had one job.

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He had to show us the table and give us the menu.

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That's it. What would he give us the menu without saying anything?

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I would have found my way to the QR code, you know, like just one job and he fucked it up, man.

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It's just it's super unfortunate, you know, because the way that front of house communicates to guests and stages,

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the whole experience for people is so important.

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You know, it should be like, you know, sometimes kind of like talking to you like you're stupid, you know, like you arrive and I'm going to make everything super easy and super clear for you.

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You know, just like so that for you, it feels really, really easy.

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It's like, hey, this is exactly it.

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I'm going to explain to you in two sentences everything that you need to know.

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And I think that's how it should be.

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You know, like I like why leave your guest in like this weird sort of like, you know, a state of being like, well, should I do this?

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Should I do that? Can I do this? Can I not do that?

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It shouldn't be like that.

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And also, like, I don't know if this was actually like a cheap sales tactic, like from, I don't know, like a fake watch smuggler in a corner.

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But like, if you are listening to this, the guy who attended us, you know, like the host, there are like faces on a sales process.

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And if you jump one of those faces, even if you close the sale, even if at the end of the day, you were have like a quantitative indicator that you close a sale.

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If you didn't do it correctly, you will have this kind of results.

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Me talking trash about your place and your work.

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There are many methodologies and approaches to close a sale.

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But I think you didn't respond to any of them.

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Just check that out.

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That's very true. That's a really good point to make.

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It's like even if you make the sale, if you don't, if you don't do it correctly, you're going to have like a bad impact.

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You know, just the number, the number that you've like sold a menu is not worth, you know, your customers, your guests having a bad experience.

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And it's a shame. Like I went to last time I went to base was like, what, 2015 or something like that.

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And it wasn't like that at all.

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It was kind of what you would expect.

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You arrive, you get a menu.

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You're like, hey, guys, what do you want to eat?

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Do you want to eat some pasta?

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You want to eat some small dishes?

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You want to eat some now?

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We want to eat pizza.

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OK. But like before we get a burrata.

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OK, cool. And easy.

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And you order and that's exactly what happens.

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Yeah.

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For me, that's super basic. You know, what did you describe like a super basic service dialogue?

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It's like if you and I go to humo.

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Yeah.

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Like, yeah, just just that.

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And I mean, like I completely respect Puglisi's work and the work that the guys at Bistup,

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it was just like it happened the way it happened, you know, and it had the result it had.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. Actually, the the next day we went to bar and in bar day,

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you could argue if these guys did something wrong or not, or if it was my fault or not,

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that that could be something to discuss or not.

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But the next day, there was no question they fucked it up by the book.

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It was like a like a real mistake, like a big one, you know.

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And I took it better, you know, because if you do a mistake, I'm empathetic, you know,

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like I'm I'm not like a foodie douchebag idiot.

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Like I didn't clean the breadcrumbs of their cars too.

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Debatable, Eric. Debatable.

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But this is what happened. So we arrived.

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In this case, we knew this was going to be the most expensive dinner of the trip.

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So we were pretty supposed to that. That's all.

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Yeah. It's the old Noma space and all of that sort of stuff, you know.

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We were calibrated that we were going to spend a lot of money on this one for our standards.

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OK. And it was like, OK, let's go this. Let's do this.

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So we go for the four course menu and we were there waiting.

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And suddenly we realize we were talking like something happened.

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Is that suddenly we realize 50 minutes had passed.

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Five zero five. And it was like, well, yeah, it was like, you know,

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like we were really calm, you know, like chilling, like whatever.

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What happened? I don't know.

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Maybe someone had a heart attack and there is an ambulance in the back of the kitchen.

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We were like doing this kind of jokes, you know, like whatever.

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At some point, I was playing chess on my phone, you know, like, oh, chill.

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Then suddenly the second course of the menu arrives and we're like, oh, wow, something really happened.

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I forgot to say something like they tell us like,

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you want to go to for the taste of me, OK, pork or fish?

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And the fish is like a nice sea bass.

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Of course, fish, sure, sea bass.

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Anyways, also, I have to say here that the food was fucking amazing.

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You know, like we had a tartare, fucking amazing.

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Then the sea bass arrives.

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The sea bass, I have to say, I don't know if this is a thing of style or for me,

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I would say it's technically wrong, in my opinion.

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The fish skin was carbonized black and it had like herbs on top.

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I mean, I like rose flavors.

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I love to eat fish skin.

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And that one was unedible.

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Like I actually a friend of mine told me, oh, you're at bar.

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That's a place where they burn everything.

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Oh, really?

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Yeah, your master, he was like, ah, that's a place where everything is burned black.

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What? Really?

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Grilled like that.

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No, and in this case, the fish, so you could argue that's a matter of style or not.

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Some people have told me, yeah, that's very Nordic.

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OK, whatever. I don't know.

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You sent me a photo. It was very black.

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I don't know how you like I like dark stuff also, you know,

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but like, I don't know how you can eat that.

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In my opinion, that's a mistake, technically.

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Some people could argue about that or not.

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But the next thing was like a dice of raw fish inside.

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So that's sorry, mate, like you this is not properly executed,

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even though like it was the whole fish without the bones, you know,

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like they open the fish and then close it again, something like that.

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But there, you know, like my companion didn't want to eat the raw piece.

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I didn't have a problem with that.

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So it was black on the outside and just like not cooked on the inside or?

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Yeah, there was a piece that was raw, not like raw, you know, like I ate it.

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But even so, it was very good fish and it was very delicious.

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You know, dessert also very well.

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And at that point, already with the conversation and everything, we

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we suddenly like come up to the conclusion.

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These guys actually forgot the first course.

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Probably right, like because, you know, nobody came to say anything.

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Like in this 50 minutes, I think they just ask us if we wanted to drink

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something else or fill it up bread.

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But there was nothing going on there.

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Perhaps they came once in 50 minutes.

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So suddenly we say like, guys, you forgot the first course.

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So could you make us the discount?

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And suddenly everybody was, oh, sorry, this, that.

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Everybody was paying attention to us.

222
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Suddenly, once we said that, they fucked up.

223
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So the bill arrives and they said we're going to discount the 33% of the of the bill.

224
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And we OK, nice.

225
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We were like we were pretty full.

226
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So actually, this wasn't nice.

227
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You know, like we're paying less.

228
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And this was kind of like an expensive place.

229
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When something like that happens in my restaurant, I send a little something, you know?

230
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That's because if we wanted the discount or to send us the appetizer after dessert,

231
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Of course.

232
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:10,600
So anyways, bill arrives and it was more expensive than we thought initially

233
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with the 33% discount than it was.

234
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What is this?

235
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Turns out that this pork or fish, fish are like an extra of 50 euros per person.

236
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And and that was a question.

237
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:23,880
Pork or fish?

238
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:28,880
You know, like this was actually the same waitress that forgot us for a whole hour.

239
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Even so, we weren't obsessed or annoyed.

240
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You know, it was just an anecdote.

241
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,640
And that's it. The day before, I'd be I was annoyed.

242
00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,640
Yeah, I mean, that's just again, just like a really unfortunate

243
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lack of communication or streamlining.

244
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You know, how can you just forget a table for an hour?

245
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Even if it's a big restaurant?

246
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,120
I don't know how big the bar is, you know, but even if it's a big restaurant

247
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and you have a waiter who's responsible for a certain amount of tables, right?

248
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Normally, I don't know how they run their business, but normally.

249
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And he has an overview of what's going on.

250
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And if there's a mistake being made from his side or from the kitchen side,

251
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it can also happen, you know, sometimes you send out a dish and you say,

252
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hey, this is for table two.

253
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And the guy takes to table three instead.

254
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,800
You cross off table two and then you send table three.

255
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And he's like, but they already have their dish.

256
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,400
And you're like, well, what the fuck? I didn't send it there.

257
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,120
So there's like, yeah, they told us they told us that probably something like that

258
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happened, like exactly something like that.

259
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:32,440
And I also thought something like that.

260
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,160
Yeah, but it's like, well, it can happen.

261
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,760
That's fine. You know, it's not fine, you know.

262
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But but you need to sort it out.

263
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,120
You know, you need to see it.

264
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:45,480
You see me complaining here and everything.

265
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,320
But in a restaurant, I almost never complain.

266
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You know, just yesterday we were we were like having pinches.

267
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And there was like an ensaladilla that was fermented.

268
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It was acid.

269
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You know, like we were like, OK, we're not eating this anymore.

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But we didn't say anything. We paid it.

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And when we left, you know, there is people that make a big mess about whatever.

272
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Or hey, we've been waiting here for 40 minutes.

273
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What's going on?

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Like, I don't want to create that kind of atmosphere while I'm eating or going out.

275
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,520
You know, like, yeah, yeah, for sure.

276
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:19,440
I'm the same.

277
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Like for me to complain, like actually like complain in a restaurant.

278
00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:28,280
Like if I wait, like, you know, like if nothing has come out for 40 minutes,

279
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I would be sort of like, hey, we've been waiting quite a long time.

280
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Like, you know, what's going on?

281
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Like, which would just be nice to know.

282
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:37,160
You know, maybe something went wrong.

283
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:38,520
Like, you don't have to be shitty about it.

284
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,360
I think it's totally fine to say something if you're not being shitty.

285
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,440
For me to actually complain in a restaurant,

286
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,440
you have to be really fucking rude to me, you know?

287
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:46,560
Oh, yeah, yeah.

288
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,520
You have to really you have to be really fucked up or be really rude to me.

289
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:54,720
I remember like one of the last times was when I was in Mexico and I like

290
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,560
a waiter wanted to charge you more for speaking English or something like that.

291
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,760
But he just kind of like he just gave me the bill.

292
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,720
And and then he was like and when I was paying, he like,

293
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,080
like tapped on the bill and he was like tip tip 20 percent.

294
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,560
Yeah. And I was like, what the fuck?

295
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:13,640
What did you just say to me?

296
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,080
You know, like in Spanish, you know, because obviously he thought we were tourists.

297
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:18,880
Never replied in Spanish.

298
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:19,840
And I was like, excuse me.

299
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,680
And he was like, and I was like, man,

300
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,200
do you think this is acceptable to talk to your guests like that?

301
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,400
And he was like, oh, no, senior, no, just kind of like.

302
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,840
And I was like, no, it doesn't matter where your customers are from.

303
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,080
You can't talk to people like that.

304
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,320
You know, and yeah, I'm the same.

305
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,120
Yeah, I recently for the for the first time in my life,

306
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:43,840
I returned a dish and said, I'm not going to pay for this.

307
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:45,640
You know, but you don't have to be shitty about it.

308
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:46,720
I have to be shitty about it.

309
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,120
Mistakes can happen and stuff.

310
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:50,880
But like, you know, with the stuff that you are describing,

311
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,600
it just feels like I don't know, I might be wrong.

312
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,840
But for me, it feels like for what was good service for both cases.

313
00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:03,160
Yeah. Yeah. But like the thing is that it's it really feels like just

314
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,320
especially with based kind of like, you know, when places become too risky

315
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,960
and they start to not really care about people anymore

316
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,280
because it's kind of like, well, people come anyway. Right.

317
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,160
And it's kind of fast, fast, fast in and out.

318
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:17,480
You know, I've been in places like that.

319
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,840
You do whatever and people will come in anyway.

320
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:25,240
So to just don't value delivering a proper service.

321
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,720
Yeah. Especially in the service.

322
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,680
Maybe maybe Copenhagen is entering a little bit of a Paris phase.

323
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:34,160
Yeah. You know, where where it's been this Mecca.

324
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,080
And now there's places that are busy all the time

325
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:38,840
because there's a lot of tourism and stuff.

326
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,640
And then the quality just kind of drops off.

327
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:42,440
I mean, don't get me wrong.

328
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,280
There's amazing places in Copenhagen.

329
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,280
Copenhagen is an incredible city for food in general.

330
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:50,520
And I would return to both of these places.

331
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,920
No question. I mean, for sure.

332
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:55,720
It's just what happened.

333
00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:00,000
Yeah. But it's a it's a good sort of like experience to have

334
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,360
to reflect on customer experience.

335
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:10,120
And also from the point of view of a restaurateur of kind of like,

336
00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:14,520
well, it's not as easy as cooking food and putting it down in front of you.

337
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:15,680
It's not as easy as that.

338
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,600
You have to think about the whole experience, you know,

339
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,920
and I'm not talking about a fucking enigma alchemist level sort of like

340
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,120
experience of like, oh, you do this and then you dad and you think about this.

341
00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:31,920
But there are there are many forces that make a restaurant experience what it is.

342
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,280
You know, like there is like cleaning included,

343
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:40,320
like decoration, music, ambiance, lights, the way the tone,

344
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,600
the people talk, the design of the dish, where of the table.

345
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,520
It's like it's all a package.

346
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,680
You know, it's like designing an app. Right.

347
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,600
If you design an app, you know, you think about, well, if I open up this app,

348
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:53,520
what is going to be my experience?

349
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,520
How easy is it for me to access certain things?

350
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:56,960
How comfortable is it?

351
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,000
I think a restaurant is a lot like that, you know, where it's kind of like,

352
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,800
as soon as you come into the restaurant, how's the experience?

353
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,560
Is it like you have to wait a long time?

354
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,160
Is there maybe a problem there?

355
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,480
You know, like, is the turnover of the tables, is it smooth?

356
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,960
Do people have to wait? How do you access the menu?

357
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:14,640
Is the menu easy to understand?

358
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,960
That's also a thing that people don't think about a lot.

359
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,440
How the menu is set up. So many restaurants that I see.

360
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,520
Also, like when I start working there, I look at the menu and I'm like,

361
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,040
well, we have to change this. It's not.

362
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,560
People think why you have to start this and you have to make us like, yeah,

363
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,280
but it's it's just not comfortable.

364
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,160
Yeah. Well, what you're talking about user experience,

365
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,680
which is the discipline that designs apps.

366
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,840
And it also applies to anything. Also restaurants.

367
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,080
We made an episode on user experience with an expert designer.

368
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,480
But yeah, these kind of things.

369
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,680
When I was telling this story to Xander, the producer,

370
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,800
he told me, yeah, it's like when you're buying one of your

371
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,840
best products that you love online.

372
00:22:55,840 --> 00:23:02,240
And suddenly the, you know, the credit card cash out section doesn't work.

373
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,640
You start hating the product just because of that.

374
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,680
You know, like these kind of things have an impact on

375
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,560
on your perception of the product for sure.

376
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That's it for this week's episode of potluck food talks.

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If you like what we're doing, make sure to subscribe to the podcast

378
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,120
so you never miss an episode.

379
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:27,120
You can also find us on Instagram and TikTok as potluck food talks.

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The show airs every Monday.