1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,160 Hi everyone, welcome to Potluck Food Talks. 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,040 Today we have a very special guest, Yabel Chan. 3 00:00:10,040 --> 00:00:13,840 She's a gastronomic communicator and producer. 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,760 I would summarize that like that. 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:17,760 Okay. 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:18,760 How are you? 7 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:19,760 Welcome. 8 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:20,760 Thank you for having me. 9 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:26,120 I'm so excited to be talking to you today, actually all the way in Spain and I'm in Vietnam. 10 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:27,600 This is awesome. 11 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,880 So first I wanted to go a little bit into your like background. 12 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:36,920 I know you have like a hospitality background and you're from Singapore and after a few 13 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:42,680 international experience you ended up becoming like kind of like a Vietnam food ambassador 14 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:43,680 or something like that. 15 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:45,360 How did that happen? 16 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:50,200 That's really, really kind of, but yeah, that was some really good stalking. 17 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,480 I'm not going to lie, Eric, that was really good stalking. 18 00:00:52,480 --> 00:00:54,800 I like that a lot. 19 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:55,800 I'm kidding. 20 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:57,120 Yeah, I'm Singaporean. 21 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:02,080 I study hotel management and also culinary in Switzerland. 22 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:09,200 And I worked in various restaurants and hotels doing marketing and doing food writing in 23 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,600 Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Malaysia, Singapore. 24 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,880 And you know, during the pandemic I was working for an airline. 25 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:19,600 I was working in Malaysia for an airline. 26 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,560 We were doing food for the planes. 27 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:28,480 And because of the pandemic, I had to find another job. 28 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,560 And then I decided, hey, you know what, let's go to Vietnam. 29 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,840 Because during that time Vietnam was still open. 30 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:36,920 It wasn't locked down. 31 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:43,200 And when I was working at the airline, I could see that there was so much demand from Vietnam. 32 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,560 There were so many cities that were opening up, that were opening up plane routes and 33 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:48,560 stuff like that. 34 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,920 So I said, hey, this country is really like vibrant and let's go there. 35 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,680 So I moved to Vietnam. 36 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,520 And then after three months of moving there, the country locked down. 37 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,640 So you got trapped in Vietnam. 38 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:02,640 Yes. 39 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,960 So it's like a Stockholm syndrome. 40 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:07,680 That's how your love through the began. 41 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:08,680 I think so. 42 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,360 You can, you can actually describe it as a Stockholm syndrome. 43 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,400 Just like came from one lockdown to another lockdown. 44 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,520 But yeah, I arrived in Vietnam when I was locked down. 45 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:27,280 So all of a sudden I was just stuck in my apartment and then I started a blog really 46 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:34,680 because the whole country was locked down and there was no way to find out where to 47 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:36,200 get food. 48 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:42,200 So I actually started as a directory because it was so hard to find out where to get food 49 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,080 during the lockdown. 50 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,880 You know, like basic needs, where to get coffee, where to get, you know, where to get chocolate, 51 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:50,720 where to get water, where to get food. 52 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,080 Those were like the first articles. 53 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:58,320 So if you Google like Vietnam delivery food, my article will be like right there and you 54 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,880 can see like the COVID articles from like 2021. 55 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,920 And that's kind of like where it all started. 56 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:13,640 But true connecting and finding out and learning about the restaurant dining scene within my 57 00:03:13,640 --> 00:03:18,680 apartment, I got to know so many chefs and restaurant owners and people who were making 58 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:26,080 coffee and, you know, just naturally being curious, talking to them, develop this, you 59 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,240 know, love for the country. 60 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,520 So you mentioned two things that make me really curious. 61 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:36,920 So first of all, I've been a huge fan of Vietnamese cuisine ever since I lived in Berlin. 62 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,160 There is a huge Vietnamese community. 63 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:40,160 Yes, yes, yes. 64 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,680 Because there was like a big migration after the Vietnam War. 65 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:49,640 And during that time, the Berlinian government took a lot of refugees. 66 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,240 So there are like whole neighborhoods of Vietnamese. 67 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,080 I don't think there is something like that anywhere else in Europe. 68 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,320 But actually, I grew up eating a lot of Chinese food in Venezuela. 69 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:06,440 And I still think like I've had the best Chinese restaurants in Venezuela. 70 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,920 So I really crave for Asian food. 71 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:14,600 And for some reason, usually Asian restaurants and in Europe, most of them are crap. 72 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,440 Like it's very hard to find good ones, because most of the time these are people that are 73 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,640 not chefs or they don't have like a hospitality background. 74 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,400 And they open a restaurant just for whatever reason that you get to see that a lot. 75 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,920 So these are just like pre-made things. 76 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:28,920 Interesting. 77 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:29,920 But with the Vietnamese, it was different. 78 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,800 This was actually like comfort, home food. 79 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,680 And so I would go to a lot to these restaurants. 80 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:40,120 And whenever it makes sense to visit a Vietnamese restaurant, for instance, in Paris, there 81 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,440 was also a very good one. 82 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:47,560 And just recently, I went for the first time to Asia. 83 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:53,360 And it's where I had for sure the two best experiences in Vietnamese restaurants. 84 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,480 I was in Singapore and also in Kuala Lumpur. 85 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,040 And you know, these were not fancy restaurants at all. 86 00:05:01,040 --> 00:05:07,600 One of them was Miss Saigon in Singapore and Tao Sam or Naosam, something like that, in 87 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:08,600 Kuala Lumpur. 88 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,920 I had the best four in my life. 89 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:11,920 It was incredible. 90 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:17,200 So what I wanted to ask you is, I know like a lot of dishes, sauces. 91 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:23,280 I could even talk about like a flavor profile or spectrum that I know from what I've eaten 92 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:24,280 abroad. 93 00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:31,120 But I don't know anything like zero about relevant Vietnamese chefs or the dining scene, 94 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,880 which is precisely your expertise, right? 95 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:42,160 So if you could give me like a quick, I don't know, like overlook of what's going on in 96 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:47,920 the Vietnamese restaurants, what are the changes, what are the key players that will be super 97 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:48,920 sensitive. 98 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:50,040 But also the street food. 99 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:55,560 I remember for me, it was really interesting, the episode of Anthony Bourdain visiting Vietnam. 100 00:05:55,560 --> 00:06:00,880 And I guess that also made an impact on my perception of the country because he travels, 101 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,160 there are videos. 102 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:08,360 And there was like this lunch lady that he already back then was saying that she was 103 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,320 already like a celebrity that you would find on Google. 104 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:12,320 The team still exists? 105 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:13,320 Is it still a thing? 106 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:14,320 Does she still exist? 107 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:15,320 Or restaurants? 108 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:16,320 Okay. 109 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:21,000 No, no, she's still doing the, she's become very, very famous and popular, of course, 110 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,000 but she's still there. 111 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:28,640 She's not like, you know, it's not like five times the price, but yeah, she's, yeah, she's 112 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:29,640 still there. 113 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:31,320 And what about restaurants and chefs? 114 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:37,160 Like I'm talking about mostly like Vietnamese cuisine because also what is Vietnamese cuisine? 115 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:43,920 I mean, it's been a country that has to do with China, France, their own local identity, 116 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:44,920 different ethnic. 117 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,600 So yeah, what about that? 118 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:54,220 You know, Vietnam has been occupied by so many people, right? 119 00:06:54,220 --> 00:06:56,800 So you have the Chinese, like what you said that came in. 120 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:02,280 And of course you have the French who also came in and then you also have like the Americans 121 00:07:02,280 --> 00:07:04,620 that were also here for a really long time. 122 00:07:04,620 --> 00:07:10,440 So a lot of people have kind of like been around in Vietnam and it very much influenced 123 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,900 a lot of its cuisine, right? 124 00:07:12,900 --> 00:07:19,160 Like in Southeast Asia, Vietnam might probably be the only country that eats bread as a staple, 125 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:20,160 like baguette. 126 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,680 Yeah, that's yeah. 127 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:27,340 Who else in Southeast Asia has a national dish, which is bread? 128 00:07:27,340 --> 00:07:29,560 We eat rice in Asia, right? 129 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,480 It's all about your, you know, your, your rice dish and stuff like that. 130 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,720 But Vietnam is the only one that for breakfast, they'll eat, you know, something called bonnet, 131 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,620 which is like a sizzling beef with fresh baguettes. 132 00:07:40,620 --> 00:07:41,760 And then you have bun mee. 133 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:46,760 So you can see that the cuisine itself is, is, is already quite different from Southeast 134 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:47,760 Asia, right? 135 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:54,120 Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, kind of, you see a little bit of that similarity, a little 136 00:07:54,120 --> 00:08:01,280 bit, a lot of wok frying and stuff, but it not so much in Vietnam. 137 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:03,120 It's a lot healthier, right? 138 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,000 Because it's very known for the soups. 139 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,880 Like you've got your pho, your bun rieu and your hotis and all these things, because it's 140 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:16,440 such a different country that some, that uses a lot of fresh vegetables and herbs. 141 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:21,160 See when I think of Vietnam, if I don't have like a big plate of vegetables somewhere, 142 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,720 it doesn't, you know, I don't, I don't feel like it's Vietnamese cuisine, right? 143 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:32,640 If there's not enough like vegetables or herbs and spices that really just tastes very natural, 144 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,520 something just feels missing for me. 145 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:35,520 I feel the same. 146 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,320 Like if I, I would have to describe it. 147 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:43,560 I would say like, yes, rice, maybe like a sticky texture that you will find like in 148 00:08:43,560 --> 00:08:49,720 the rolls or the noodles and also lots of fresh vegetables and herbs, like crispy aromatic 149 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:51,520 vegetable component. 150 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,120 There's always still vegetables somewhere, right? 151 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:59,800 Either inside or you're wrapping like a lettuce leaf somewhere or, you know, a rice pepper, 152 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,480 like there's always vegetables and it's always fresh. 153 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:04,980 It's not like deep fried. 154 00:09:04,980 --> 00:09:06,920 It's not like a deep fried dish. 155 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,640 Everything is almost like so clean and fresh. 156 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:14,320 And the palette is, I think Vietnamese food is very light. 157 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,800 So you know, sauces are always on the side. 158 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:18,800 It's always a dip. 159 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:20,700 It's a dipping food culture. 160 00:09:20,700 --> 00:09:24,600 Even for noodles, it's like, okay, you can just add what you want a little bit. 161 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:30,160 There's no like dish that I feel comes with a sauce at the bottom where you mix it. 162 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:31,920 It's such a flexible cuisine. 163 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,320 You can add a little bit of noodle and add a little bit of this and you add your own 164 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,160 vegetables and you add your own sauces. 165 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:47,360 It's such a, you know, like almost like a cuisine that's so rooted in just fresh ingredients. 166 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:48,360 That's how I feel. 167 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:49,360 It's very fresh. 168 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:50,360 It's very light. 169 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:51,360 It's clean. 170 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,440 It's, it's, it's, it's very flexible. 171 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:54,440 Yeah. 172 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:58,800 You mentioned like the right way to pronounce this is phu, the soup? 173 00:09:58,800 --> 00:09:59,800 Phu. 174 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:00,800 Phu. 175 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:01,800 Yeah. 176 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:02,800 Okay. 177 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:03,800 I always say it like phu. 178 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:04,800 Okay. 179 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:05,800 Phu. 180 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:06,800 Yeah. 181 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:07,800 Phu. 182 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:08,800 Yeah. 183 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:14,040 It responded at some point, like a long time ago to the French demand of having beef. 184 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:18,800 So street vendors started like developing a soup with beef instead of pork, which was 185 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,320 more dominant at the moment. 186 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,320 But yeah, what about the soup? 187 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:27,800 For me, it's like one of the most iconic elements of Vietnamese food. 188 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,160 What's your favorite place to go to have one and why? 189 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:36,320 So phu is one of those things that I think the origin, yeah, they say that it comes straight 190 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,240 from the North, right? 191 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:43,280 And you know, the dish phu comes from pot of phu, which is a French dish. 192 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:44,280 No way. 193 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:45,280 Okay. 194 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:46,280 Yeah. 195 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:47,280 Yeah. 196 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:48,280 Yeah. 197 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:49,280 Pot of phu, which is the French dish, which is what you're talking about. 198 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:55,600 But if you think about it, how you cook phu, 18 hours with all the beef bones and you know, 199 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:58,400 the spices and everything, that's great. 200 00:10:58,400 --> 00:10:59,400 That's very Chinese. 201 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:00,400 Yeah. 202 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:04,440 I mean, the concept of a noodle soup itself is Chinese. 203 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:05,440 Yeah, exactly. 204 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:12,080 The whole concept of, you know, taking the bones and you know, like cooking it and simmering 205 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,320 for like 18, 24 hours. 206 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,960 That's quite a Chinesey kind of like way of cooking. 207 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:25,080 Like what in Europe, sure you have soups, but it's not done in the same way. 208 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,640 And the soups in Europe, it's not like that, right? 209 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,960 It's more of a thickening and the texture. 210 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,120 So you know, who knows about the origins of phu? 211 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:36,720 So I don't want to say anything. 212 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:42,120 And also when you eat it in the North, it's so different from the South and different 213 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:46,080 parts of Vietnam eat phu differently. 214 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,240 There's also stir fried phu. 215 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:49,960 There's deep fried phu. 216 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:54,520 So in different parts and there's dry phu, but not a lot of people know about it. 217 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,720 A lot of people know about phu as one type of soup. 218 00:11:58,720 --> 00:11:59,720 As a noodle soup. 219 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:00,720 Yeah. 220 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:01,720 Same with me. 221 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:02,720 Exactly. 222 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,560 I would use it as a noodle soup, but it's very different across different parts of Vietnam. 223 00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:08,240 Vietnam is huge, right? 224 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,560 And the one that everybody knows actually comes from the South. 225 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:14,120 The famous noodle soup that you will find abroad. 226 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:20,960 The one that everybody thinks of phu comes from Saigon, like Ho Chi Minh City. 227 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:21,960 It's not though. 228 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:27,880 So if you go to Hanoi and you eat phu, you almost won't really recognize it as what you 229 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:28,880 think. 230 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:29,880 Okay. 231 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:30,880 That's amazing. 232 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:31,880 Yeah. 233 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:37,640 I've seen it before of having the, going to the real country and realizing everything 234 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,880 I had so far was fake. 235 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:46,360 Like for instance, I went to Israel recently and I went to this Lebanese restaurant where 236 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:52,840 I had hummus and I was like, okay, this has nothing to do with my conception of hummus 237 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,680 and this is like the real place. 238 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:56,480 You know, this is where it comes from. 239 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:57,480 Yeah. 240 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:58,880 Do you have like a favorite one? 241 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,000 Like a favorite spot to have a phu? 242 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,480 My favorite place. 243 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:04,480 Okay. 244 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:11,560 So my, I, I, I prefer the Northern phu instead of the Southern phu. 245 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:16,320 So in Saigon, I have a few places that I go phu phu, but I don't think it's like the best 246 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:24,320 phu because I think all of them are like, they're like all pretty good to me personally. 247 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,720 And I go to one down the street from where I live and I can't remember the name of it. 248 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:30,760 I just, the kind of like always just know what it is. 249 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,800 Like, you know, sometimes street food stalls, you don't really know what the names of them 250 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:34,800 are. 251 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,520 You just got to know what street number they're on and then that's it. 252 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,600 Sometimes it's just the span as well. 253 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,800 You know, that's the thing, right? 254 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:47,720 They have no names, but street food for me, if I'm in the North, I only eat the street 255 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:53,800 food, but in the South, I'm a little bit more, you know, inclined to eat other kinds of things 256 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:54,800 personally. 257 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:56,440 That's my personal preference. 258 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:57,440 Okay. 259 00:13:57,440 --> 00:13:58,440 That's interesting. 260 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,640 So what about the mission guide? 261 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:05,080 I know it was also not so long ago introduced in Vietnam or... 262 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:06,080 23, 2023. 263 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,080 Ah, just super recently. 264 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:10,080 Okay. 265 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:16,600 And how has it been the impact of the, are there like fine dining Vietnamese places? 266 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:17,600 How are they? 267 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:18,600 Who are the chefs? 268 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:20,080 What can you tell us about that? 269 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:25,760 I was seeing the past like three to five years, the modern Vietnamese fine dining scene has 270 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,280 really picked up, right? 271 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:33,320 And I don't mean, I don't mean, you know, your, your hotel restaurant, but I really 272 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:39,680 mean like independent Vietnamese chefs who are doing modern Vietnamese cuisine. 273 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,400 That really came about, I would say in the last like three, four years. 274 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:48,600 I've been writing a new restaurant guide every month for the past almost like one and a half 275 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,060 to two years. 276 00:14:50,060 --> 00:14:56,720 And the one that I see, the one category of restaurant that keeps opening as new Vietnamese. 277 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:02,400 So it's kind of like Vietnamese food, but like elevated in some sorts or more modern 278 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,320 versions or you can now get tasting menus of Vietnamese cuisine. 279 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,320 And what the Michelin guide did, right? 280 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:14,580 When it came in last year and it announced the winners, there are four restaurants that 281 00:15:14,580 --> 00:15:16,520 got the Michelin star, one star. 282 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,880 We only have one star for now. 283 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,120 And three of the four are Vietnamese. 284 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:22,120 Yeah. 285 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,520 Like for me, that makes perfectly sense. 286 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:25,520 Yeah. 287 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:31,160 That makes a lot of sense and you know, those chefs are your like finer dining Vietnamese 288 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:32,320 restaurants, right? 289 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:37,520 And then 29 restaurants, the big commands are all Vietnamese. 290 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:38,520 Nice. 291 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,700 It was, you know, less than 10% is international. 292 00:15:41,700 --> 00:15:47,720 And then you have your Michelin select, which are almost all kind of international. 293 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:53,680 So what I'm trying to say is that what is signal to the country was, Hey, you know what? 294 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:59,860 If you do Vietnamese cuisine or you have some kind of modern Vietnamese, you can get a star 295 00:15:59,860 --> 00:16:02,120 or you can get recognized. 296 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:07,400 So I think what happened after that was a lot more of these Vietnamese openings because 297 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:13,320 they realized that, you know, to be competitive or maybe to get international recognition, 298 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:18,380 there was an interest in modern Vietnamese from, you know, the foodie, the international 299 00:16:18,380 --> 00:16:23,480 culinary world for recognitions, even 50 best, the only Vietnamese restaurant or the Vietnamese 300 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:28,040 bars that are on it are also like modern Vietnamese places. 301 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:32,040 So what you see now is a lot of these modern Vietnamese restaurants opening. 302 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:33,040 Yeah. 303 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:34,040 Yeah. 304 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,200 You know, because it's now like a marketing angle, maybe for some, and even some restaurants 305 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:43,360 that were not modern Vietnamese or didn't try to say that in the past, all of a sudden 306 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,280 started, you know, being a little bit more Vietnamese. 307 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:47,280 Okay. 308 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,400 That's I've seen like in many places in the world, this has happened over and over again. 309 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:56,440 It happened in the Basque country, it has happened in many Latin American cities, it 310 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:01,840 has happened in Copenhagen, in many cities, like the dominant player in fine dining restaurant 311 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:03,360 was French. 312 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:09,120 And many of the chefs that after this reinvented their local cuisines were working at French 313 00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:13,600 restaurants or maybe even started a French restaurant that evolved into a local cuisine 314 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:14,600 restaurant. 315 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:19,960 I've seen this happening over and over again and in different regions and moments in history. 316 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,880 Is there like, I don't know, like key chef you could mention that are worth like visiting 317 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,640 or reading the word or checking out? 318 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:32,120 So one of the chefs in the restaurants, I would say he's like the most famous Vietnamese 319 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:33,760 chef in Vietnam. 320 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,880 His name is Chef Peter from Anan Saigon. 321 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:41,600 So he is the only one star restaurant in Ho Chi Minh City. 322 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,200 The only one with a star here. 323 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,240 He's also the only chef on the 50 best lists. 324 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:48,240 Okay. 325 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,960 So his restaurant does modern Vietnamese cuisine. 326 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:57,520 And he is known as the chef who is really championing Vietnamese cuisine and modern 327 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,160 Vietnamese cuisine overseas and in Vietnam. 328 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:05,640 So he himself is also very much like an ambassador in the international culinary world. 329 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,220 So I think we're all very grateful for that because, you know, it's set like a role model 330 00:18:09,220 --> 00:18:12,460 and what he's done with his restaurant is very impressive. 331 00:18:12,460 --> 00:18:19,200 And then in Hanoi, you have your other one star, which is a chef called Sam Tran. 332 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:25,960 So Chef Sam Tran comes from Gia Hanoi, Gia Hanoi, G-I-A, but in Vietnamese it's called 333 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,200 Zia with a Z. 334 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:28,200 Okay. 335 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:35,000 And she is a Vietnamese chef, first and foremost, also a female Vietnamese female chef. 336 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:39,000 So you know, big deal in Vietnam to be very honest. 337 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:47,040 And comes from Hanoi, but she trained in Australia at some of the hats, you know, like the, they 338 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:48,200 have the hats, right? 339 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,120 In Australia instead of the stars. 340 00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:51,120 Yes. 341 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:55,640 And she does really beautiful like Vietnamese cuisine. 342 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:00,800 She's now representing, you know, Vietnam going overseas to do like Michelin awards 343 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:01,840 and events and stuff. 344 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:07,040 So these two people, I think have really stepped out of Vietnam and gone overseas as culinary 345 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:08,040 ambassadors. 346 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,520 But honestly, very much in the last few years as well. 347 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,800 We've talked a lot about Ho Chi Minh City or Saigon and Hanoi. 348 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:16,800 Yeah. 349 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:18,720 Are these the two food capitals? 350 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:24,520 Are there any other like relevant places when it comes to food worth visiting? 351 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:31,440 So these two places are like, you know, your, so Hanoi is the capital of Vietnam and then 352 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,720 Saigon is kind of like your business hub. 353 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:38,240 So you've got like, you know, you're Washington, DC and New York, right? 354 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,920 Kind of relationship like Tokyo and Kyoto kind of thing. 355 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:47,480 So naturally I think because there's a lot more business and stuff like that and happenings, 356 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,760 even the low posts also all go to these two places for work. 357 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:56,720 So by naturally, you know, having more people and more travelers and tourists, the food 358 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:58,640 scene is a lot more lively. 359 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:05,160 But recently I would say starting this year with more tourism in the different cities 360 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,640 like Hoi An and Da Nang and even Nha Trang and Phu Quoc. 361 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:15,600 When the tourists are interested in places like that, the hotels come in and then they 362 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:21,000 are the ones who bring in good dining concepts and good chefs, right? 363 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:28,440 So for example, Nha Trang, which is a beach destination, recently opened up a hotel, Melia 364 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,040 Nha Trang, right? 365 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,220 And international hotels that go there. 366 00:20:32,220 --> 00:20:38,320 And they brought in a new restaurant called Hispania, which used to be owned by a one 367 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:45,760 star chef from Spain who's now doing Spanish cuisine in Nha Trang, which is, you know, 368 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:46,760 what? 369 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:47,760 Right? 370 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,640 So they're like suddenly because Vietnam as a tourism destination is just becoming more 371 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:57,040 popular, you see things happening. 372 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:02,800 Yeah, and perhaps at first they will cater a lot more to the tourists. 373 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:10,720 But I do foresee that in due time, locals will also just in general be able to dine 374 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,680 more and enjoy more in each smaller city. 375 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:20,400 You get to see that also here in Spain, there are like cities that are very well known for 376 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:21,400 their food. 377 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:26,400 But it's also interesting finding like something super interesting in a remote village or like 378 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,760 a small city or these kind of things. 379 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,480 I think it has its own magic. 380 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:32,480 Yeah. 381 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,400 And now you can like back in the day, there used to be nothing. 382 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:40,080 But now I hear like I can hear it be like, oh, yeah, and this like sleepy beach resort 383 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:41,080 three hours away. 384 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,320 It is like now this French chef there doing things. 385 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:45,840 And I was like, Whoa, what? 386 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,160 I also wanted to ask you about coffee. 387 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,720 I understand that coffee is like a big deal in Vietnam and is one of the main producers 388 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:53,720 worldwide. 389 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,800 What's the deal about coffee? 390 00:21:55,800 --> 00:22:02,040 So Vietnam is actually one of the top five countries that produces coffee and the number 391 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,760 one producer of robusta coffee. 392 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,960 I think number one or number two, I think the other one might have be Brazil. 393 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,800 Brazil is number one. 394 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,680 I think also producer in general. 395 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,680 Yeah, I think so. 396 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,520 I don't know the ranking to be honest. 397 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,280 I know just that Vietnam is among the first ones. 398 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:21,280 Yeah. 399 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:26,160 So Vietnam is one of the largest producers of coffee in the world and potentially the 400 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:30,440 largest coffee producer of the robusta coffee bean. 401 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,960 And yeah, it's a huge coffee and cafe culture. 402 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,900 Is it more like a coffee drinking country than a tea drinking country? 403 00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:40,920 Because that's very unusual in Asia. 404 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,080 No, I so okay. 405 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:53,000 In Asia, I definitely believe it's one of the higher coffee consuming countries, right? 406 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:58,200 For the reason that it probably this is a French influence thing. 407 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,280 I think the coffee drinking thing is a very French influence. 408 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,320 Like the baguette, of course. 409 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:10,360 Yeah, it's a very, very like French culture because even the way they drink the coffee 410 00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:13,880 is very relaxed. 411 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,000 A lot of Vietnamese people can just sit by the streets and then wait for the coffee to 412 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,320 drip for like an hour. 413 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:30,520 It's very like midday siesta, not siesta, like a midday coffee kind of like slow down. 414 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:36,800 Whereas, you know, I come from Singapore and when I was living in Malaysia, you drink this 415 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,940 coffee pretty fast. 416 00:23:38,940 --> 00:23:42,300 We never have to wait for the coffee, right? 417 00:23:42,300 --> 00:23:48,200 It's a very different kind of way that we drink coffee, I personally feel, but I enjoy 418 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,360 the one in Vietnam a lot more. 419 00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:55,320 Yeah, but on your note, people here also drink a lot of tea. 420 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:56,320 Okay. 421 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,760 I'm a big tea drinker. 422 00:23:58,760 --> 00:23:59,760 That's also what I'm asking. 423 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,300 Like, I love tea. 424 00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:08,120 But not in the way that we drink tea in Southeast Asia or from China, right? 425 00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:09,120 Okay. 426 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:16,560 I love tea and it's always, it's very spandead to go to any street place and order chada, 427 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,200 which is basically iced tea. 428 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:20,640 And it tastes like water. 429 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:22,640 Okay, like super diluted. 430 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:27,720 Yeah, it's just like a cup with a massive ice and then tea. 431 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:29,360 And it tastes like water. 432 00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:30,400 It's not hot. 433 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,820 It's really just to cool down. 434 00:24:32,820 --> 00:24:34,200 It's like a spandead drink. 435 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,640 Anywhere you sit down, you'd be like, hi chada, like to chada, you sit down and you drink 436 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:38,640 it. 437 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,160 And I think that's interesting because if people would ask me about, what do you know 438 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:46,280 about Vietnamese drinks, I would say lemonade. 439 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,980 Because every time I went to Vietnamese restaurants, I would have lemonade and they were like nice 440 00:24:50,980 --> 00:24:52,800 and different and with herbs. 441 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,440 And the one I had in Singapore in Miss Aigon, it had a bit of salt. 442 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,960 And I was like, really like, wow, this is nice. 443 00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:01,960 Like a lemonade with a pinch of salt. 444 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,560 Like what's the deal with lemonade and this kind of refreshing drinks? 445 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,280 Are there any more besides lemonade and iced tea? 446 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,320 Yeah, of course. 447 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,160 There's so many. 448 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:19,080 So like in Vietnam, like, you know, salted lemon is such a popular thing in some of the 449 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:23,440 restaurants and like, you know, local places, you see salted lemon with like Coca Cola, 450 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:28,120 salted lemon with like, you know, lime and it's fizzy and it's ice because it's really 451 00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:29,400 hot in Vietnam, right? 452 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,320 So you got to drink like cool drinks like that. 453 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:38,080 And I think that's the reason why I say like Vietnam is really a home to a lot of very 454 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,160 innovative beverages. 455 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,760 And what about spirits and alcoholic beverage? 456 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,800 What's the national drink? 457 00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,400 The national drink meaning? 458 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,600 I mean, like the thing people drink the most. 459 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:51,600 I assume beer. 460 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:58,160 But like in terms of spirits of liquors, is there like something like you want them to 461 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,520 suck it or something? 462 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,400 They call it like roux, which is like a rice wine. 463 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:05,400 Okay. 464 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:06,400 Yeah. 465 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,840 It's like the local moonshine, right? 466 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:15,800 Like it's, you know, the look, the local like if they're not drinking beer on the streets, 467 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:21,280 they're probably going to drink roux, which is the yeah, the local, you know, yeah, the 468 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:22,560 easy to go drink. 469 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:23,560 Yeah. 470 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:28,200 I don't know whether it's as like perhaps premium as sake. 471 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,560 It's really like a moonshine. 472 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:31,960 I mean, like this kind of things. 473 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:37,600 I've seen them also like getting revalorized, like here in the Basque country, there's like 474 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,000 a very specific type of apple cider, hard cider. 475 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,000 Yeah. 476 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,480 And today this is something every time I get food tours, I include it on the tour and people 477 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:47,480 love it. 478 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:52,520 Also, when I talk with Basque friends, they tell me that 30 years ago that this was something 479 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,160 like just all drunk people would drink. 480 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,720 Like it was really like denigrated, not taken seriously. 481 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:04,600 And now it's interesting because cider houses, they're also innovating and creating new types 482 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:11,760 of drinks, like applying ice wine techniques into apples or making apple liqueurs or different 483 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,120 things around the, this local varieties of apples, which is also super interesting. 484 00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:17,120 Yeah. 485 00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:19,880 There's a lot of innovation with spirits. 486 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,160 A lot of people are making it modern. 487 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:28,080 So we also do have like modern versions of rice wine or different versions of like liqueurs. 488 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:29,080 Quite similar. 489 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,000 I mean, it was what's happening. 490 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,720 And also later I got to understand. 491 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,680 Yes, of course they did because every time I would go to Vietnamese restaurants, I would 492 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,800 see that they had like this kind of roasted dogs. 493 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,600 And for me, this was like, but that's, I feel that that's more Chinese. 494 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,560 Like it didn't feel like something local. 495 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,200 And I guess it comes like baguette from China. 496 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:56,920 It was a Vietnamite sized, but it's also a big deal, right? 497 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,640 Like the dishes are on duck. 498 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:01,640 Roasted duck. 499 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,440 It's duck in general. 500 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:10,280 I think there are some duck dishes, but I, I'm not, it's not as popular as I, I think 501 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,720 like chicken and beef and even pork. 502 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:19,560 There are duck dishes though, but not like on a day to day basis, not, not like not as 503 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:20,560 popular. 504 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:21,560 Okay. 505 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,440 No, that's interesting because also, and I know this because I myself have worked in 506 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:30,680 Spanish restaurants in Germany and I know that you have to adapt things to the local 507 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,840 audience and sometimes you have to make things that Spanish people would say, I've never 508 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,760 seen that in Spain. 509 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,480 But for the German audience, it would make sense. 510 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,080 And I guess this was also something like that probably. 511 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:44,080 Yeah. 512 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:45,560 It's probably like that. 513 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:51,520 I think they're like, like what I said, I think like, you know, Vietnam is really interesting 514 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:58,480 in a sense that like different parts of Vietnam have greater accessibility to different animals. 515 00:28:58,480 --> 00:28:59,480 Right? 516 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:04,600 Like in Ho Chi Minh City, you'll see restaurants that are like, we specialize in cuisine from 517 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:11,120 Hoi, we specialize in cuisine from the Mekong Delta and we specialize in cuisine from Hoi 518 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:15,520 An and every single restaurant, even though it's all Vietnamese food, it's actually super, 519 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:16,520 super different. 520 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:17,520 Yeah. 521 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:18,520 I can imagine for sure. 522 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,920 So, you know, for example, if it's the Mekong Delta, maybe you'll see a lot more dishes 523 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,560 with duck. 524 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:30,960 And then if you see like, you know, food from perhaps like, you know, nearer to the sea, 525 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,040 it's a lot more seafood. 526 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:39,360 So to say that, you know, Vietnamese cuisine has a lot of duck, it's a yes answer, but 527 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,080 also not really a yes answer. 528 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,480 Like in Ho Chi Minh City, we don't see a lot of ducks around in general. 529 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:47,480 Right? 530 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,960 So I think it really, really depends as well. 531 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:50,960 Okay. 532 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,240 And my last questions would be about, because this is something I have to admit, I haven't 533 00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:01,000 had anything memorable or like outstanding, but what about desserts? 534 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,120 What's the dessert culture in Vietnam in general? 535 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:09,800 So one of the very, very popular desserts in Vietnam is something called che. 536 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,840 And the best way to describe it is a sweet soup. 537 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:15,840 Okay. 538 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,720 It's like a sweet, like condensed milk. 539 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:26,080 There's a lot of condensed, like people love sweet stuff in Vietnam. 540 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,080 Okay. 541 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,520 Especially in the South and Ho Chi Minh City. 542 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:38,280 So the desserts are always kind of like condensed milk, a size, like condensed milk size. 543 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,040 And che is, there's many different types of che. 544 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,840 There's maybe like a durian che, which comes with like durian and then, you know, like 545 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,080 a little bit of condensed milk and ice. 546 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,080 Okay. 547 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,480 Like, yeah, like a super, this actually reminds me of some kinds of desserts that you find 548 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,520 in Venezuela, in my home country. 549 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:57,600 Really? 550 00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,120 That's really interesting. 551 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:00,120 Because it's also very hot. 552 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:05,440 So there are desserts that are like ice shapes with like a condensed milk syrup and some 553 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,160 fruit also syrup, something like that. 554 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:09,160 Yeah. 555 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:15,560 And I think it kind of, you know, like if you have access to fruits and it's a hot country, 556 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,360 it almost seems like the natural recipe for it. 557 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:19,360 Yeah. 558 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:20,360 Like common sense, of course. 559 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:21,360 Yeah. 560 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:22,360 In Vietnam though, we don't do shaved ice. 561 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,240 In Singapore and Malaysia, we do shaved ice. 562 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:30,920 In Vietnam, it's just an ice cube and then, you know, just all together. 563 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:31,920 And that's how you eat it. 564 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:36,200 It's just like a bowl with ice, condensed milk, some water and then some fruits. 565 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:37,200 And it's amazing. 566 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,320 There's some, you know, like nowadays if you're maybe more in the city, you have like certain 567 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:46,920 jelly and toppings as well, you know, just for the younger kids to appeal to them. 568 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,120 But you can make chair from everything and anything. 569 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:55,480 Like I love one that has like an avocado pudding with like avocado ice cream with a bunch of 570 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:56,480 stuff. 571 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,240 So yeah, you can have mango chair. 572 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:04,120 You can have anything. 573 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:17,520 That's it for this week's episode of Potluck Food Talks.