Hi everyone, welcome to Potluck Food Talks.
Today I have a super VIP guest, my old friend Alejandro Cancino.
He's probably one of the most technically talented chefs I've seen working.
How are you Alejandro?
Very good, very good.
So I met Alejandro like about 20 years ago and I remember you told me so many crazy stories
about how you ended up working in restaurants in Europe.
Perhaps we can go through that.
Sorry, you first won a culinary contest in Argentina, right?
That was kind of the beginning.
Yes, I was 15 years old and I was raised by a single man.
There were three of us, three kids.
And at the time it was not very common to become a chef.
At the time I was 15 and I remember seeing on a newspaper a culinary course.
And I said to my mom, look, I would like to become a chef.
And she said to me, okay, let's have a look on the different schools.
And we ended up picking this one in particular because they had at the end of the two years course
a scholarship to go to France.
There was probably 280 people competing to get that scholarship.
And I remember my mom saying, look, I'm paying for this.
It cost me a lot and it's a massive effort.
So I just wanted to take it seriously.
And I said, mom, and I was 15 at the time, said, mom, in two years I will be in France.
So, boom.
And France was the beginning.
I did three months' scholarship in a hotel.
It was a school hotel.
You know, from there things evolved.
Was this the time you did not return to Argentina?
You just walked out of the airport?
Yes.
Basically, you know, after three months, my visa was three months only.
And I remember at the time there was no internet.
It was a very different time.
And I remember calling my mom and saying, look, mom, I'm not going back.
I'm actually going to the UK.
I got friends there.
And I have a shop line up.
So don't worry.
I will be back in six months.
I didn't have a shop.
I didn't know anyone.
And I actually didn't speak English.
And I had no visa.
So I just changed my return ticket.
I flew to the UK, to London with $100 and no where to stay.
So I stayed in basically I slept outside an airport.
For the first three nights I sleep basically on the street.
But finally on the third day I got a show with accommodations.
So, yeah, I made it, let's say.
I got offered, you know, two kitchen hands roles.
And I remember at the time saying, no, sorry, I'm looking for a chef role.
Not like a kitchen hand.
It's funny because I remember some of these stories.
And we were once working in a restaurant and the manager comes in.
You, you, you, you go to the wine cellar.
Why?
Because you probably don't have any papers.
And I was like, I guess, you know, like I have a general passport.
But you also go to the.
And we were in there in the wine cellar because there was probably coming some control or something.
Yeah.
And that happened to me in the UK a few times.
You told me once a guy was deported who wasn't a different who had a different hiding place than yours.
Yes.
So that happened in a restaurant.
We were working together with this Polish guy.
The inspector came and I was basically I had to hide.
And the other guy was picked up and was deported from from the UK.
Then you ended up working in Mugaritz.
Was that directly connected or you were in some places before UK and Mugaritz?
No, after six months in the UK, I saved, you know, I worked in three different shops all at the same time.
So the only day off I had I was working on on a restaurant in the mornings.
I was working actually doing sandwiches.
And I saved enough money to go on, you know, to go to any of these restaurants I applied.
Remember, I played for El Bully and a few of the three mission stars in Europe.
No one responded.
And then I actually went I flew to El Bully and I went to the kitchen.
And I remember at the time, Oriel Castro, he said to me, look, you're too young.
I was 18 at the time, you better go to somewhere, you know, to to get a bit of experience and then you can come back in a few years.
And I said, OK, will you recommend me somewhere?
And he said, look, there is this guy who started a few years ago, a restaurant in the Basque Country, Andoni Luis Aduriz.
And I think he's got it really well.
They got one Michelin star at the moment and the place was Mugaritz.
So I was lucky I got there.
Yeah, this was what? 2002, 2003, something like that.
Yes, 2002. OK.
And couldn't be better. I think it was a life changing experience.
Yeah, Mugaritz was like a three year old restaurant at the time, right?
Yeah. And I mean, then I did three months stash like all chefs when you're young.
And after the three months, I think someone in the section I was working, the chef, the party got sacked on the spot.
And I was there and I remember Andoni asking me, can you run this section?
I said, oh, yes, definitely.
I wasn't ready, but I was 19 when I started as a chef, the party in Guarizzo.
I wasn't definitely wasn't ready, but I was so keen.
You made it to the sous chef position, right? Like in three years.
Yeah. How was the journey?
I don't know, tell me a little bit about the impact Mugaritz had on you.
It's a super important place.
Also for me, probably one of the most impactful places I've worked for sure.
Yeah, I think, you know, first of all, you are surrendered by people who are aiming to be really good at what they do.
So then that means all the at the time young kids that were in the same room with you working many hours.
They are all now very successful chefs all around the world.
And it's so funny because, you know, you may remember people that you were probably living in the same house and they are now a big celebrities and very successful chefs.
So it was amazing.
And obviously all of that happened because of the, you know, of Andoni and the core team there that had a vision of doing something special.
And I think that marked myself and every other chef that gone through that kitchen.
I think the impact that I had in my life, I think it was massive, you know, to really aim for perfectionism.
For me, it was like going to uni.
Absolutely. No, no, I think that these places are exactly like that.
You told me once this story where this legendary Japanese chef Mibu came to it, Mugaritz, and you were sous chef and that day you had to be in charge.
Can you tell the story? I remember it was really funny.
Yeah, I remember that, you know, Mibu, one of the best chefs in Japan, he was coming to visit Mugaritz and I had to basically prepare some traditional Basque recipes, which I never, I never made.
I remember two or three dishes that I had no idea.
And yeah, I ended up doing something decent enough, but it was funny that someone that was representing the Basque country had never cooked or eaten any of the food that was prepared for this special guest.
But then also you told me like the guy fell asleep on the table because he had like a very long trip.
Basically, the whole team were on the table and just falling asleep. It was a massive trip and they really wanted to be there, but it was just too much for them.
And then you worked like mainly meat and fish station, right? Mugaritz.
Yeah, I did basically two and a half years, one the first, let's say, I think it was almost six months as an estacher and then one year in meat first and then fish section.
Also the garden at the beginning, right? Like most people. Yes, yes.
I also was in the garden. That is a crazy experience to be in the garden in Mugaritz because they have this collection of herbs.
I remember we were at the moment where I was in Mugaritz. I was making that dish, which was the Mugaritz gargiyu, which had like, I don't know, it was something crazy, like 40 different individual leaves and 12 different pieces of vegetables plus 12 petals of flowers.
Like a super crazy dish. Such an amazing experience, you know, to be in contact with all these good fresh produce, very good atmosphere.
I had great memories. It was a very special time.
Then I remember, because at that time we were already friends and you left Mugaritz, you went to Mexico for a while.
And then I remember I helped you draft a motivation letter for Menua at Cartagena many, many years ago.
Yeah, that was the next place after. So I flew to Mexico for, I stayed in Mexico for almost a year and then I got a visa, a show offer for the UK to work in Lemanoa, Costa Sonia.
That's also one of the best restaurants in the world, right? Like how was that experience?
It was pretty different in terms of, you know, the pace. So it was a high pace, you know, on my first week, I didn't know anyone, you know, and I was in a section where you would be doing, you know, 100 covers for lunch, 100 covers for dinner.
There was no difference between Monday or Saturday or Sunday. It was seven days a week open. It was way more intense.
So many people say that if you've been trained in Lemanoa, you have a good pedigree, let's say. Mugaritz was, in my opinion, probably more refined, you know, a little bit more.
More classic also, right?
Lemanoa is more classic and you get the foundation, you know, right there. But yeah, very, very different experience.
I remember on my first day, I've been told, you know, all the bad words that you can imagine. And I remember thinking, why these chefs, they don't even know me, you know.
How can you call me all these words? I remember using Twitter on some of the dishes and they said that I was laughing at me.
And they were betting on how long I was going to laugh. And they said, oh, two days, a week. Because I didn't speak English. I was so lost.
People were calling dockets that, you know, I was supposed to be, you know, reacting to that. And I was completely lost.
So it took me a while, but then I, you know, I think I don't wear that.
That's amazing. Yeah, you ended up doing like junior sous chef, right?
Yes. Six months on the show. I remember the executive chef, Gary Jones, he said, oh, look, there is this competition that I really want, Young Chef of the Year.
I really want one of the chefs in the team to win it. So he said, whoever goes into the competition and wins gets an instant promotion.
So we did the regional. There was four states. There was eight people per state. So I went to the regional with some of my coworkers and I came first.
So the top two from each state will compete then in London. And then I compete in London and I came first again.
So next day I walked into the kitchen and, you know, I got the promotion and things changed a little bit from that day.
You know, there was a bit more respect that the thing is they were not used to, let's say, to nice chefs.
Where did that attitude come from?
I was very calm and I didn't swear. You know, I had a much calmer and easy going attitude.
You know, I got the job done and I was obviously rushing. I also, you know, I didn't take drugs. So that was a bit of a...
I was worried by then. I was 22 and I had a very different lifestyle.
So I think everyone else seen that as a weakness and I was probably not too strong to the team.
But then that gained me a lot of friends. And when I got to, you know, a sous chef position,
everyone was backing me and everyone wanted to do their best to make sure that, you know, when I was running the pass,
let's say, I'm sure they felt more comfortable, less stress and that helped.
Yeah, I think that's very important in a kitchen. We talk about that a lot in a show.
Like these people that for some reason believe they're gods in the little world and gods and devils.
And it's just, you know, take it easy, you know, control yourself. I remember also with you and Luca,
who was also working at Mugaris at the time, it was the first time I ever heard about Seiji Yamamoto.
You were showing some videos at the time and you were planning to go there.
Then I remember Luca had an accident. I don't know if you went. Did you end up going to Rio de Janeiro at some point or?
So I didn't actually work in Rio de Janeiro, but we did many collaboration dinners. I spent time in his kitchen.
I actually, after Le Manoir, I went to Tokyo to work with Luca. Luca took an executive chef role in Mugaris.
He has become like a celebrity. He's one of the, you say that he has become like a celebrity and everything.
He's a massive celebrity chef now. He's got a family there. So he's a, yeah.
And Luca is probably the chef I had most fun with.
Because you were working in the line together in Mugaris already. He was in the meat section and you're in the fish section.
And then you ended up running a restaurant together in Tokyo. That's amazing.
And in previous, probably in previous year, there was kind of a bit of a competition between who was in the meat section and in the fish section.
When I was working with him, we had such a good time and he made my time in Mugaris much better.
How was Japan? It has to be crazy. I remember also when I met you, your dream, and we can also talk about that, was going to Tetsuya.
Because for me at the moment, like in the mid 2000s, he was one of the best restaurants in the world, maybe the best at some point.
And I also remember getting and reading his book, which is very crazy because Australia where you are right now is a place that combines somehow Asian and European culture.
And I think that is reflected in his cuisine, his kind of Chinese, Japanese, Italian, all mixed in a single dish. You can find that over and over again.
What can you say about him, about Tetsuya and your dream about going there and everything?
Yeah, look, my plan was to go to Tetsuya after Mugaris.
And I remember at the time, they say I send emails and they told me no, because I didn't have a visa and they didn't want to just bring someone when they didn't know me.
Actually, I was really depressed after that because for me it was a dream to go to Australia.
And when I actually when I was, I think, 12, I read this on the newspaper that Australia was one of the places where you can have a, you know, best lifestyle.
And since then, it was kind of in my head. I, you know, I want to end up in Australia.
And when that door shut for me was heartbreaking.
So after Japan Obisini, I was still interested to go back to try again and apply for a job in Tetsuya.
I didn't get to Tetsuya, but I finally got here to Australia.
But it's funny now, the executive chef who's been there for the last, I think, five years, worked with me.
He was my apprentice in Lemano Aqua Tazón.
And then when I had my restaurant here, when I ran my restaurant here in Australia in Brisbane, he was my head chef.
So after being a head chef in Urbane, which was one of the top restaurants here in Australia with three hats, which is the highest ranking you can get from there, he went to run Tetsuya.
So it's a small world. Yeah, it's crazy. I went to have the dinner when he was running it.
So how was the experience of eating at Tetsuya? That's a place I would like to visit.
Yeah, look, so Shosh, my friend, he was running it.
And, you know, a big part of the menu, apart from the classics, you know, the trout and the fuel and items, a lot of the menu was his creations.
OK. Or contributions, OK.
Or contributions, yeah, exactly.
So let's get into that. You come to Australia and you open Urbane in Brisbane. Was it a vegan restaurant?
No, actually, I didn't open it.
OK. It was a two-hundred restaurant, which is kind of, you know, a good already a very good level.
And it had the fine dining, which was a 30-cover restaurant and then a bar and a bistro.
So I was there for in total six years.
We did the first, let's say, vegan menu. So we had one hundred percent plant based menu and the conventional one.
At the time, it was probably too early. And we had a lot of people, you know, obviously, I think it was a bit of a transition.
Initially, it was one and one. So you had two options. But then at the very end, even the meat or the omnivore option was probably 60 percent plant based anyway.
So even if you went for the omnivore option, there was so much veggie options, let's say.
But I think you would agree that maybe like the vegetables is something you have developed very much in your cooking.
What can you say about that, about cooking with vegetables or do you have any specific approach?
Are you working with fermentations? Are you? I guess like you have all kinds of techniques.
I don't know. What can you share about that? Yeah, I'm a vegetarian myself.
So my my idea was to OK, how can we if this is what I believe and I think is what we should be eating,
how can we get the most out of vegetables and what techniques or what can we do to enhance the flavor?
And there is a lot, you know, and there is so much opportunity to to do a lot more, I think, on the space.
And I hope more and more people focus on that because there is so much talent out there that if that was used to improve, let's say, the plant based offerings, it will be amazing.
And that's what you did afterwards, right? Now you're what's your role?
Co-founder, co-owner of a vegan alternative protein startup, right?
Yes. So I let's say my wife and I, so I'm the co-founder.
OK. We both started, you know, kind of a on the side project.
When I find out that I was going to have a baby, I decided, you know, I didn't want to work the hours we normally spend in the kitchen.
And I said I want to be a president. I want to be there.
And so I decided to open a plant based meat company.
What are you offering? What's your main product?
Yes. So we do meat, burgers, sausages, but we're expanding the range.
And, you know, we went from producing, you know, 10 kilos a week and selling it to a restaurant to now we produce around five times a day.
So, OK, I heard I heard you. What's the name of your brand?
Friend Foods. Yeah, I've heard it's quite common to find it in the supermarkets in Australia, right?
We are everywhere on the supermarkets. Yeah. And we have good distribution and we are number one in Australia, we can say.
That's amazing. That's super cool.
And how was the change from from a kitchen to a test kitchen, like a prototyping lab?
Well, I guess you already worked before like in R&D kitchens of restaurants.
So I guess the step wasn't that much of a jump.
Yeah, to be honest, my my days nowadays, you know, 99 percent, you know, in an office, all in front of a computer.
And they say a very small amount of R&D work.
I'm the CEO of the company and I look at spreadsheets and have meetings all day. It's a little more corporate and boring.
Look, the background of a chef helps me a lot.
You know, discipline, you know, common sense, I don't know, work ethics, all of that still very important.
And I do get, you know, once in a while to do some culinary stuff, which is, you know, obviously refreshing.
What about not even like a like a small dinner or something just for friends or not ever again cooking like a pop up or something like that?
Look, I I became a chef because I like eating.
So I do cook every day.
But for example, at the moment, I would say my cooking time is split half on lunch boxes for my kids.
And that's my everyday prep I need to do in the morning.
And then I cook every day for the family.
So, yeah, I still in terms of professionally cooking, I say I want to go back, but it will be in a very different format.
And it will be at my terms in most likely, you know, a very small restaurant.
But it will be once I kind of retire from the corporate world, let's say.
I also when I was working in Bolivia, I had a short leave to Central in Peru.
And they invited me on an amazing menu.
And then I was talking with the with the twins, the Valderrama brothers.
And they told me, yeah, Alejandro, he came here and we were super amazed because he walked into the kitchen and he started to like correct things.
We were doing like you can do this like this.
And we're like, we're doing this for the last five years.
And this guy came with an improvement like right at the moment.
What were you doing there? Were you like doing like a day's task or what was it exactly?
Yeah. So I did a trip all around South America.
And I remember when I was in Gus in Bolivia, I actually teach some of the guys how to sharpen their knife.
And when I went to Central, obviously both restaurants are amazing.
Central blow my mind. It was amazing.
They were these. I really liked it.
Yeah. I remember when I was there, I said this restaurant could have two Michelin stars.
And just recently they got in the Tokyo restaurant two Michelin stars, you know, like, which is amazing for me.
It's one of the, you know, the best restaurant I visited.
The meal I had two dinners there.
Amazing. I was blown up.
But there was I remember they were doing this.
They were doing the Bernou Set battle and we used to do the same Bernou Set battle in Uruguay.
And they didn't.
So when you do Bernou Set, you have the sediments, right?
So they didn't pass the sediments.
So when you, you know, I had dinner the day before and I eat it and I had all the bits.
And if that happened in Uruguay, I will say to the guys, guys, do it again.
You know, that's not right.
And you don't actually put the whole Bernou Set.
So you look half and half.
You leave butter out to get kind of melted or room temperature.
Just to explain for the audience that perhaps Bernou Set is roasted butter.
Basically, you put butter in a pan until it gets light brown and it smells like hazelnuts.
And then you can let it settle again and use it like normal butter for your bread or this kind of thing.
And it's amazing because it's roasted.
It's amazing. So what we were doing is once you do the Bernou Set and you let it set, splits.
And that butter is very hard to emulsify again.
But if you take, let's say, half of butter room temp and then you cut this Bernou Set butter into dices and you emulsify it all together,
you have a very smooth butter with a beautiful Bernou Set flavor at the end, which is amazing.
So I told them because I had dinner the day before and I noticed I said, guys, can you give me, can I do the butter today for you guys?
And I prepared it and I said, check on this.
You know, I'm not here to tell you what to do. You know, what you do is amazing.
But it's a suggestion and they taste it and say, oh, this is amazing.
So they change it there, then and there.
So for me, that's amazing. I think good cooking is about hitting the right spot.
It's not about having more effort or living more time or this kind of thing.
It's just to know where to hit. Exactly.
Yeah, I just wanted to ask you, I'm not sure, but did you ever stashed or visit like restaurants in the Nordic countries?
I don't know. I have an idea. Were you at Noma at some point or?
Yes, I lived three months in, I think two or three months in Noma. That was an interesting experience.
What time was it? What year around?
It was 2000. Well, I'm just saying 12 years. 2010, 2011.
OK, OK, because I just was doing like a study on the new Nordic.
And I can tell you that that was exactly the time where it was starting to kick off like really hard.
But at that time, they were still, you know, like struggling.
Which is amazing. I think it reminds me a lot of early days in Mugaritz, where you see the struggle and how they were really hands on and getting there.
It's a crazy movement, what happened there. And we saw it in front of our eyes, you know, like when we were in Mugaritz, that was just beginning.
And now, boom, like it was a culinary movement of the decade, for sure, of the 2010s. It's amazing.
Yeah. Let's see what's next.