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I'm just going to try to replicate Eric's.

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Hi everyone.

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Welcome to Potluck Food Talks.

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As you can hear from my voice, this week it's not Eric.

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Eric is our long lost son.

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He's somewhere in Asia, Singapore, Malaysia.

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I have no idea where he's at.

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So he gave us the duty and the task to record an episode without him.

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And Phil, I think we're going to manage pretty well without him.

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Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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I mean, probably better to be honest, you know.

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We all knew that this was going to happen at some point that we'd have to, after a few

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months of absence, you know, go and rescue him from like an opium dam in Singapore harbors.

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From the cold Berlin, Eric, I hope you're eating delicious food.

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I hate all the posts that you're posting online with all those delicious things that you're

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putting in your mouth.

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But yeah, let's let's do a show.

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This week's episode, I'm going to talk a little bit to Phil for the people who don't know.

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I'm Xander.

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I produced the show, I edit the show, and I have to listen to these two guys talking

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every week and cutting out all the nonsense that they say.

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But I'm super happy to have the opportunity to talk to Phil one on one, because in my

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opinion, he's an extremely talented chef.

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He's been doing this forever.

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He's been in some of the most exciting restaurants and even one of the most legendary restaurants

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in the world.

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And I can relate because my job also is very, you know, food related.

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I do commercials for food, for big food brands.

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So yeah, at some point we both decided that food was more or less our vocation.

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But I want to ask you, Phil, like when did you realize that, you know, like how they

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say like find something that you love and let it kill you?

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So when did you realize that food was your poison and that you wanted to become someone

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who did food rather than being a lawyer or an accountant?

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Yeah, it was pretty it was pretty early on for me.

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I made the decision when I was about like 15 and I was like dead set on it.

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And it was like there were several factors like playing into it.

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I come from a family that like is very passionate about cooking.

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So I grew up with food and cooking and going out to eat being like a very important part

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of everyday life, you know, like when we were having breakfast, we talk about what we should

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have for lunch and for dinner, you know.

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And so there was a very, there was just a very, just a very natural love for it.

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It was like very ingrained and we used to go to markets and, you know, to like small

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suppliers.

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We were also kind of in a little bit of a rural area in Spain.

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And so that fascinated me as a kid straight away.

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I always like used to love and enjoy also kind of like moving through the seasons and

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like being excited, just kind of like how you're excited for Christmas that you're like

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excited for autumn or for summer or like for whatever, you know, because like new like

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products would come.

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And then I was kind of like, I don't know, I was really drawn to theater for a long time.

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And then I started cooking by myself more and more when I was sort of like 12, like,

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you know, 11, 12.

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What do you mean with theater?

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That you like, you, you wanted to become an actor or what?

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Yeah.

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For a long time, I thought I was going to study drama because I went to a British school

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also.

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Oh, okay.

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And not necessarily become an actor, but just work in theater.

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I don't know, because I really saw myself there and I was really into music and all

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those sorts of things.

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Cause I wanted to do something sort of something artsy.

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And but then I started cooking more and more at home and, and I was really, really enjoying

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it.

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And I got into watching cooking shows more and more.

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Back then it was like, you know, the Jamie Oliver shows when back when Jamie was still

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good, you know.

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There was a time when Jamie was really good.

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Now he's gotten kind of bananas, you know.

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But do you think growing up as a kid being introduced to food, like being exposed to

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markets to like actually having vegetables in your hand, trying out different flavors,

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do you think that it is essential for someone to be raised eating a certain variety of foods

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to become interested in and like eating and eating experiences?

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No, not at all.

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I think there's like, there's that's like, and there's also the complete opposite.

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You know, I feel that I know some people that have like grown up in a family where there

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wasn't like a very big cooking culture, where there was a lot of like instant meals and

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bar and something, you know, there's nothing wrong with that.

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But then like, if you have a desire for something else, you know, and you grow up in that environment,

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you have to like the, the desire to break out of that, you know, and then you chase

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the complete opposite, right?

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Like kids that grow up in a very conservative households that then just go and, you know,

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go a little bit nuts and go to punk rock concerts.

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That sort of stuff, you know, or the complete opposite, you know, people that grow up in

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a very messy household and then grow up to be super, you know, neat and tidy and clean

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and they don't want anything, anything.

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No, for sure.

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Yeah.

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But for me, it was like that and I really loved it.

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And then I read, you know, I mean, I was, I was very, I was a very rebellious teenager

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and then I read Anthony Bourdain's kitchen confidentials.

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And I think the, it was, and that really gripped me also.

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I don't want to say that that's what made me become a chef because I can actually really

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tell you what made me decide to become a chef, but that all kind of like got me into it to

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the idea of sort of like, okay, being a chef might be like really cool.

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You know, I can work in food.

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I can work anywhere in the world.

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I can travel, you know,

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Kind of like that, that pirate spirit of like whoever cooks, whoever can provide for people,

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you can do it anywhere and you can do it your way and you can like not give a fuck about

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anything because now the kitchen is sort of like, it's sort of a unique environment where

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we're like, it's just different than the rest of the world.

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Yeah, exactly.

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I mean, that was a huge aspect for me as well.

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I was like really sort of like freedom seeking child, you know, like I really wanted to kind

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of break out and just live, you know, and do it all and travel and yeah.

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But then actually what really made me decide to become chef where I really made the decision

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because I was thinking about it a lot and I was really unsure because I also had this

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pressure that I wanted to start as young as possible.

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I didn't want to and I wasn't sure whether I wanted to finish the last two years of high

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school or whether I just wanted to go after my, what you call it, in the British system,

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it's the GCSEs.

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Yeah, basically like a pre high school or like a thing where you have a certain high

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school degree, but not at the academic level, something like that.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And I was very much into Buddhism and like Zen, you know, Zen philosophy.

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And you know, I still am.

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And the idea of doing something professionally where I could have a closed cycle every day

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and every day I would go into work and I would make something with my hands starting from

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zero and improving myself every day, like bit by bit, by bit, by bit.

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And then starting that all again.

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And it's like gone because you make, you make a plate of food, somebody eats it, it's gone,

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you know, no matter how much time you spend doing it.

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You know, if you spend two months painting a picture, you know, it's there and it remains

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there.

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But like with a plate of food, it's gone.

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And that's kind of like weird and frustrating because you put so much work into it, but

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it's also very nice.

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And only one person gets to enjoy that one plate.

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No, it's not like you can have a thousand people all, you know, trying out that one

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thing that you did.

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If you want a thousand people to enjoy your creation, you will have to replicate it a

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thousand times and a thousand times in the same quality.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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And it's also the acceptance of imperfection, you know, that it's like you try to get it

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perfect with the painting.

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You can always go like a little bit here, a little bit there.

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I guess there's also an acceptance of imperfection because you can over paint the painting, right?

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But I'm sure it's the same with like editing, editing film, you know, sort of like a little

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bit here, a little bit there and what about this and what about that?

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And then if you don't stop, it's just like a whole big mess, right?

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For sure.

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I mean, like there are so many different art forms where you can edit it forever.

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Like writing, making a film, but food, you know, once you start cooking it, it also starts

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dying.

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So there's a limited time that you can like prepare something.

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Obviously, if you, you know, like we were doing the spice rub for the live show for

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the sandwiches and I remember you adding stuff and adding stuff and, you know, like kind

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of like getting closer to what you wanted to do.

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And it was like a longer process of trial and error until you got it right.

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But I guess when you're fileting a fish, you know, what's cut, it's cut.

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You know, it's done.

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You know, if you cut it like a donkey, like Gordon Ramsay would say, it's, you know, you

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have to either get a new fish or see what you do with that, you know, ugly piece of

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fish that you just sliced.

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Yeah, no, absolutely.

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That's actually a really good example because you only get one cut, right?

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And then it's never going to be perfect, you know, and that idea of like being able to

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do that every day and also the like never ending like aspect of it.

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That really appeals to me as a teenager.

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And then I decided to drop out of high school and move to Berlin and just start cooking,

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you know.

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Is there any particular eating experience that made you go, okay, wow, like, like I

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get it.

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Like I know what food can be now.

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Is there, was there a restaurant, a dish as a kid, like eating some sort of food?

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Like was there any flavor adventure that you had that you still remember that was the one

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was like, okay, this is what I want to do for people.

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What I'm feeling right now, I want to replicate.

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Not really.

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I mean, I was, like I said, I was very, very fortunate.

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Like my family cooked really amazing.

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Like my grandma was an amazing chef at home.

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You know, my parents, like they cooked really great food, especially like Italian food.

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And it was just like downright delicious, you know.

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And then my grandparents, they spent a long time in Asia.

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So especially Japan.

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So you know, we used to have like tea time at our house, like on the weekends and drink

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like Japanese green tea.

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And so I got introduced to all these like different, you know, cultural aspects and

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it made me really sort of like, I really, you know, enjoyed it.

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And you know, we sort of used to go out and eat, you know, like I was eating sushi as

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a kid and go to like sukiyaki restaurants and stuff like that.

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And was exposed to it really early on and this like magic of like what food is, you

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know, tied in with sort of like cultural identity over the world.

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Like I just like fascinated me.

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Buses, you know, traveling around the world, working in different places, learning a lot,

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looking in hindsight.

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Was it what you were expecting, you know, when you decided as a 15 year old kid to start

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this whole thing?

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Yeah, pretty much.

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To be honest with you, like, yeah, I mean, I said it earlier, like I was, I was very

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fortunate, you know, I started very young and I did a lot of the things that I was like

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dreaming of doing like a very early stage.

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I mean, I didn't, I didn't start in like a shitty kitchen.

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Like I, I started in a shitty place, you know, in a very good kitchen.

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But yeah, I was like, I was very driven and very determined.

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And like when I got to Berlin, I just wrote to like the most, the most accoladed restaurant

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here and just kept, it was a two Michelin star restaurant here in the center of the

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city, like very French.

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And you were like 16, 17, something like that, right?

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I think it was 15 actually.

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And I think it was 15 on the verge of 16.

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On the verge of 16.

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Yeah.

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Crazy.

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But that's cool.

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You know, it's like a lot of people that I talk about, they say like, dude, I envy people

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who know what they want to do.

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And obviously at 15, if you're able to map out your life and you say like, okay, this

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is my goal.

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This is what I want to do.

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Um, then it's like great.

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Cause you can just look up for the best restaurants and write a million emails until like the

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best restaurants accept you or how was it for you?

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Yeah, for sure.

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And that's what it was like for me.

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You know, I was like very, because I kind of like, I read like certain things and I

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was kind of into the world already.

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I was very prepared for being sort of like, um, right.

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It's going to be really tough.

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It's going to be really difficult.

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So like I went to that restaurant and part of a big, huge luxury hotel and I showed up

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and I said, I'd like to speak to the head chef and the head chef wasn't there.

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And it was sort of like, yeah, we can give a message to him.

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You know, it's, I was like, no, I'd like to speak to him personally.

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And I just kept showing up like every day for like two weeks until he was there, you

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know, in hindsight.

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I know now that he was there like once a month and soon, yeah, I never, but yeah.

230
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,920
And I introduced myself to them and he said, all right, come by.

231
00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:45,920
And I started there just kind of like, you know, just washing dishes and cleaning and

232
00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:50,640
like working in like the staff kitchen, like for the staff food and stuff.

233
00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,520
I didn't get to like touch anything for the first couple of months, but I was just happy

234
00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:55,520
to be there.

235
00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,040
And I was just like really determined to work hard.

236
00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:59,800
But like, did you train yourself?

237
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:05,000
Did you just like go to the market and buy a bunch of chicken and like learn how to de-bone

238
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,880
a chicken when you were 15 or did you just say, okay, I want to learn.

239
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,280
And you just went to a restaurant and said, teach me.

240
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:16,400
I mean, I, I think I knew like quite a lot already when I was like, when I started, I

241
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:23,440
mean, I didn't have the ability to do a lot of things, but I knew how to de-bone a chicken

242
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:24,760
like more or less, right?

243
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,960
No, like, it's not like I've never seen this before.

244
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:27,960
What do I do?

245
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:28,960
You know?

246
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,160
And you know, like also like basic cooking terms.

247
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,840
I read like a lot of cookbooks and I watched a lot of stuff and like, I knew what a bechamel

248
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:39,760
was and what a roux is, you know, like nowadays, you know, I talk to people that work in a,

249
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,320
like I don't want to say chefs, but like people that work in kitchens and I'm, you know, they

250
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:44,720
don't know these terms.

251
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,800
I'm not saying that you should be like a nerd and stuff, but it's sort of like, well, it's

252
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,320
like basics, you know, it's like very, very basic stuff.

253
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:57,680
And I knew all of that, like the model sources and I knew what dashi was.

254
00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:03,080
And you know, I was just very interested and I like wanted to absorb knowledge and I did

255
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:04,080
that before.

256
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:09,660
So I feel like I was at a good spot when I started where I wasn't at a good spot was

257
00:15:09,660 --> 00:15:17,280
kind of like my, not my attitude, but like my ability to, I had a hard time being this

258
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,540
sort of like, this is a lot of unfair treatment in these sorts of kitchens, especially back

259
00:15:21,540 --> 00:15:23,320
in the day, you know?

260
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,960
And in the very beginning, because I also went to a very, very tough restaurant at the

261
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:32,000
beginning, you know, I was really sort of like, it was a hard time for me.

262
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,960
Cause I wanted to, I wanted to work hard and I was really passionate, but at the same time,

263
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:40,280
you know, like everybody's super shit to you and you're like, it really kind of puts you

264
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:41,280
down.

265
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,680
Do you still have any, you know, do you still have idols?

266
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:50,880
Are there people that you, you know, idolized until a certain point, until you didn't anymore,

267
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,440
which I also think is something very common.

268
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:58,280
What's, what's your relation to, you know, your heroes and idols?

269
00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:03,240
You know, they say, they say never meet your heroes.

270
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:08,520
I think that's, I, I didn't really like think much of that saying until like it was, it

271
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,400
happened to me and it happened to me a few times.

272
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:16,400
It's already, I don't know, like I'd already want to drop names, you know, but you know,

273
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,320
there are, you know, chefs that I really idolized.

274
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:25,240
They were like these mythical, you know, beings, you know, these like master craftsman and artists

275
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:32,920
and, and, um, I would like read, you know, what they've done and like looked it up and

276
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,600
be super inspired by them.

277
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:41,040
And there's a one example of this, like a very, very famous, uh, free mission star chef

278
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:48,000
in Paris that I just found absolutely amazing, you know, for years and years and years.

279
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:54,760
And, um, and then at some point I went there and I ate there and I met him and I was incredibly

280
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,440
disappointed because of many reasons.

281
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:02,320
Um, I have like for many reasons, like not necessarily because of like the, that the

282
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:06,440
food was bad, but it was like, yeah, it's just never meet your heroes.

283
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,800
You know, like it's also not their fault.

284
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,160
You know, they can't live up to what you, what you imagined them to be like.

285
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:13,160
You don't know them.

286
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:14,160
Okay.

287
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,160
But it was more or less like, like you went there and you actually saw the real thing

288
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:21,920
and you were disappointed because you were expecting more, or is it because I don't know

289
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:23,320
their attitude, their approach?

290
00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:28,600
There was, there was a situation that was just like disappointing to me, you know, like,

291
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:33,860
um, like we had a conversation and he kind of made me like a promise and then he didn't

292
00:17:33,860 --> 00:17:40,080
deliver the promise and, and I was just like very let down, you know, can you say what

293
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,360
that promise was?

294
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:46,720
Basically I brought him a gift, uh, to the restaurant as you sometimes do, you know,

295
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,240
like, but like a bottle of wine or something like that.

296
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:55,000
I brought him some like homemade wild rose vinegar from England.

297
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:59,560
So like forage wild roses, like preserve and vinegar homemade as in made by you or as in

298
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:04,040
like you knew someone who made really good, why rose vinegar isn't made by me.

299
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:05,040
Okay.

300
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:06,040
Nice.

301
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:10,040
And then like foraged and made by me, you know, um, with like rose dips and like rose

302
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:14,040
petals and like a nice little glass bottle.

303
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,480
And he was like, oh wow, thank you so much.

304
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,040
And then he was like, I'm going to make something special with this for you today.

305
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:22,400
And I was like, oh wow.

306
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:23,520
You know, like I didn't expect that.

307
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:28,960
I just wanted to bring like a little something, you know, and then we went for the meal and

308
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:34,600
uh, you know, he didn't and uh, it just kind of put like the stamp not part from the fact

309
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,280
that service, like the front of house treated us really, really poorly.

310
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:39,280
Oh really?

311
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:44,200
Even though you were sort of like a guest that I don't know, like, like how do you,

312
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:45,240
how did you connect with them?

313
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:50,720
Like how did you, you know, it's not, I guess it's not normal that you go to a restaurant

314
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,200
of that caliber and have a direct meeting with the chefs.

315
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,000
Like how did, how did that come about?

316
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,800
Um, no there it's actually relatively normal.

317
00:18:58,800 --> 00:18:59,800
Okay.

318
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:00,800
That it greets the guests.

319
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,840
He has a little conversation with them.

320
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,880
And so it was the mixture of that's the, you know, the front of house treating us really

321
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:12,520
poorly and um, and then the food being like also incredibly expensive, you know, it was

322
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:13,520
good.

323
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:18,560
There was some highlights that I still remember, but it wasn't like, um, some things were really

324
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,120
good and then other things were like, all right.

325
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:25,000
But that's Phil, that's because you became so good that, you know, you eat this and you

326
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,960
go like, I could have done this better.

327
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,920
No, it's not, it's not about that.

328
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:37,480
But if you, if you pay like 500 quid per person, then like it needs to be like exceptional

329
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,160
because that's the thing also with like these fine dining places that like, I feel like

330
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:46,240
it often really takes away from food because you could do something and be amazing, but

331
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,760
you charge somebody 500 quid for it and they're going to look at it with a very critical eye

332
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:56,200
and like already that's why I don't like these like high money places anymore, you know,

333
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:57,960
because it takes away so much of the enjoyment.

334
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,360
You know, maybe it's just cause I'm poor, right?

335
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:07,080
But like, but I don't know, you know, because it's like, and nobody can tell me, oh yeah,

336
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:08,520
but it costs that much to make it.

337
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:09,520
No, it doesn't.

338
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:10,520
It really doesn't.

339
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:12,620
You know, it absolutely doesn't.

340
00:20:12,620 --> 00:20:14,880
It's just the name and everything and blah.

341
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,440
And um, but yeah.

342
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,220
And then, you know, I went out and he was like, all right, see ya.

343
00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:26,320
And I went out and I was just kind of like, this was just a really kind of shitty experience.

344
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:32,180
But I know for a fact that you have very high standards and um, I mean, you are now head

345
00:20:32,180 --> 00:20:36,680
chef or have been a head chef in various places.

346
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,960
And obviously you bring your own philosophy and your style and you know, way of doing

347
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:48,120
things like a way of working with your team and a way of, let's say a vision of what you

348
00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:50,320
want to present to the guests.

349
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,640
Talk a little bit about that.

350
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,840
Like, what's your approach as a head chef?

351
00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:02,080
You know, when designing a culinary experience for a guest in your restaurant.

352
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,080
Okay.

353
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:14,000
Um, so, um, I mean, that's, that's changed a lot over, um, over the last years for sure.

354
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:19,360
Um, I mean, with in terms of sort of like the standards that I, that I have in the kitchen

355
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:27,560
or with a team, um, and the culinary experience that, um, that the guests experiences, those

356
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:34,760
are, those are of course connected, but they're a little bit different for me in my mind because

357
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,800
I think of the sort of like guest experience in one thing.

358
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:44,180
And then I think of the standards that we set in the kitchen and also the team dynamic

359
00:21:44,180 --> 00:21:48,840
and the whole, the culture that you create inside of a, inside the kitchen.

360
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:56,840
I kind of see that as a separate entity that needs to get built and nurtured and cultured.

361
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,300
Um, and I've kind of focused on that.

362
00:21:59,300 --> 00:22:04,160
And from there, I know that if we do that right, that good things will sprout that will

363
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:05,760
affect the customer experience.

364
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,840
Um, of course, the first thing that, that you have to think about is the quality of

365
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,080
produce.

366
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:16,640
I think that comes before anything, you know, when you think of a, of a culinary concept.

367
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,260
And of course you have like a certain style that you cook in that you like, et cetera,

368
00:22:20,260 --> 00:22:24,500
you know, but on the other side is the work culture that you create.

369
00:22:24,500 --> 00:22:29,200
And that's like the beating art of the restaurant because a restaurant lives, you know, kind

370
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,200
of by itself.

371
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:34,280
It's like this kind of like weird organism that just like eats and people come in and

372
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,760
come out, you know, and they're kind of like the guests, you know, they kind of like, they

373
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:42,160
kind of step into your world and they enjoy it and then they go out.

374
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:47,600
But like for that to be enjoyable, you really have to cultivate a certain culture in a restaurant.

375
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,680
And that's very, very difficult.

376
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:54,000
Having a restaurant in that caliber, it is about, you know, making sure that it's, it's

377
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,440
more than nutrition.

378
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:56,440
It's about an experience.

379
00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:03,760
And also like the culture is cultivating the sense of like, I want to be a, you know, part

380
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,080
of a forging that experience for the guests.

381
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:07,080
Yeah.

382
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,080
Yeah, for sure.

383
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:09,080
That's part of it.

384
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,600
And what I mean even more is the culture between themselves.

385
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:13,600
Right?

386
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,080
So like, of course it's super important that they care about what they put on the, like

387
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,920
how they put it on the plate and whether it's going out odd, if it looks all right, et cetera.

388
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:28,060
But actually that's less for, it sounds a little bit weird probably, but that's less

389
00:23:28,060 --> 00:23:30,400
for the guests and that should be more for them.

390
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:31,400
Right?

391
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,640
So like if I'm cooking, of course I want my guests to have a good experience and stuff.

392
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:42,000
But if I like plate something neatly, I do it like for myself, you know, I'm striving

393
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:48,760
to improve myself and therefore, you know, I'm trying to make it better all the time

394
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:53,480
and that arrives at the guest's table and they hopefully enjoy it, you know?

395
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:59,240
And so I feel like when you have, when you do that and you, when you create like an environment

396
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:04,080
in the kitchen where there's no, no toxic behavior, where there's an open conversation

397
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,640
about the craft that you're doing, about the quality, about the produce, about, you know,

398
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:14,200
further development, you create a very productive and positive environment.

399
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:22,120
And I think I really believe that that impacts the whole restaurant very, very fundamentally,

400
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:25,240
you know, if you have a kitchen that's always like, all right, you know, it's not sort of

401
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,000
like, Hey, like what the fuck is this?

402
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,000
This is wrong.

403
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,240
You know, we have to do this again and just kind of bashing people, you know, and then

404
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,240
they're just like robots and they're just like replicate and replicate and replicate.

405
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:40,720
But if you have an open, if you keep an open conversation, you're sort of like, Hey, this,

406
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,120
the sauce tastes kind of sweet.

407
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:44,680
Like what's the reason, you know, and you kind of look at it and you realize the onions

408
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,760
are a lot sweeter than they usually are, you know, because produce changes and you just

409
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:49,760
have an open conversation.

410
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,160
So it's like, Hey, maybe we should do it like this tomorrow.

411
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,520
And then like what you have is like people coming to you and they're saying like, Hey

412
00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:00,800
chef, like, look, this is like this today, you know, what should we do?

413
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:08,320
And you talk with them and in a very relaxed manner and in a very flexible way, your chefs

414
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:09,560
are going to develop further.

415
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:15,080
There's a very organic progress for them also professionally because they learn more and

416
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:16,400
more, right.

417
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,880
And it improves the quality of everything massively, but also, you know, the whole vibe

418
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,760
of the restaurants, you know, we have a restaurant where there's an open kitchen, you know, and

419
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,440
it's hard work and everybody works super hard, but at the same time, we're like relaxed and

420
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:36,120
nobody's angry and like, we just, we're organized to a point where the amount of work is like

421
00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:42,560
manageable without it being, you know, a pain and we go from day to day trying to improve

422
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,160
from day to day, you know, and I feel like people feel that.

423
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:50,160
Did this style of leading your kitchen come from, you know, working in other kitchens

424
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:55,280
where this was the complete opposite, where it was this old school dictatorship, shut

425
00:25:55,280 --> 00:26:00,080
your mouth and just do what I tell you, even if you don't understand or don't agree what

426
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,080
I'm telling you.

427
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:02,080
Yeah, for sure.

428
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:07,360
I mean, I can't say that I didn't used to be like that, you know, like I became a head

429
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:14,480
chef like very young and I think that a bad style of management is most of the time, most

430
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:19,800
of the time it comes from an inability to do so, right.

431
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,800
So if you're the last resort is what shouting, right.

432
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:31,040
If you, if you're, if your line cook makes the sauce wrong and you shout at him, what

433
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:36,040
the fuck the sauce is wrong, make it again.

434
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:41,520
Like what are you doing instead of being able to detach from the situation, you know, cause

435
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,720
you're managing other things at the same time, taking the time to explain it to him.

436
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,440
So kind of like managing your frustration, all the things you have going on in the back

437
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:54,720
of your head and making a decision of sort of like, what is the most productive way of

438
00:26:54,720 --> 00:27:00,920
communicating with this guy or this person so that he very efficiently learns how to

439
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,320
make the sauce right.

440
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,320
Right.

441
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,940
Because like we're talking about a time pressure scenario, right.

442
00:27:05,940 --> 00:27:11,120
And that takes, that takes also self control that takes, you know, a cool head.

443
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:14,400
So that means that you have to be able to manage the things that you have to do that

444
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,040
you're multitasking in a very controlled way.

445
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,320
If you're overwhelmed by all the things that you do and somebody comes to you and they're

446
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:25,240
like, shave the sauce, but you're like, fuck something else that I have to worry about.

447
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:31,480
Um, yeah, it's just your inability to, to keep calm and collected and in control.

448
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,360
And I think that that's the case with a lot of these chowdy chefs, you know, apart from

449
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the fact that they play a character, you know, some, a lot of the, especially famous chefs,

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you know, they, they are very much capable of keeping in control, but they play a character.