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Recorded live at Podfest Berlin, supported by Wunder Tax. Tax returns made easy.

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Hi everyone, welcome to Podlog Food Talks. Today we have a special live episode, live

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from Berlin. Berlin make some noise. So this is our episode number 52, which means we have

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a whole year behind us. And before we start, we wanted to tell a little bit the story of

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Podlog, how it started. It actually started with just a call with Xander, who is just

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entering the room. And we were talking about what could we do to travel and eat for a living

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in the next five years or so. So he came up with the idea. Just the day next, the logo

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was ready with a cheap logo site on the internet. And just the day afterwards, we made our first

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episode, which was the Spanish tortilla. Yeah, exactly. And that's kind of just really sort

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of cowboyness of like spontaneous episodes kind of carried on throughout the whole of

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last year, you know, just trying to fit in episodes into our work schedule, you know.

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And that's basically what we're going to be doing today, you know, we're just kind of

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Eric's literally arrived fresh off the boat, stranded in Munich for how long? I mean, all

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night. Yeah, like I had a three hour sleep. I lost my flight. I almost lost my voice this

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morning. So it doesn't always sound, it doesn't always sound too sexy, you know, it's like

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normally it's really high pitched. But not today. No, no, no. So I'm kind of like, like

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the idea was to talk about whatever food related topics that we could talk for 10 minutes,

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20 minutes. In this case, it's going to be an hour talking about sandwiches, things we

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like about sandwiches or sandwich experiences we've had so far. And since we started with

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the tortillas, the Spanish omelette as the first episode, we thought we might start also

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with with the Spanish omelette as the first sandwich. One second. An issue, technical

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issue here just to

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Damn, we really should have checked that instead of drinking coffee.

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Working man. Why is it not working? Oh, there we go. Okay. We might just click.

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Okay. What's the deal with tortilla sandwiches?

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Well, I mean, it's like, you know, we talked about tortilla in one of our episodes and

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tortilla is such a quintessential Spanish food, you know, it's like you find it everywhere.

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You find it in, you know, most sort of like pincho and tapas bars. And, you know, one

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of the like most sort of like easy, convenient, comfortable foods to go to in Spain is just

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like having a tortilla, putting it in a slice of bread, because that's basically, you know,

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I mean, the quintessence of a sandwich is that you have a vessel that you can put food

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in so that you can take it on the go. Right. I mean, you could take a piece of tortilla

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just bare hand, I guess, you know, but, you know, a piece of bread is just kind of convenient.

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And this is something you will find like in school cafeterias and all kinds of like on

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a train station everywhere. It's like, like really a staple in Spain.

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Yeah. And it's kind of like, you know, like why sandwich like an interesting topic, you

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know, it's kind of like it's one of those things where you can go really in depth of

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why it's interesting, because it's something that you find literally everywhere in the

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world. It doesn't matter what food culture you go to, you always have a certain sort

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of type of sandwich where you have this like aspect of convenience and on the go and sort

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of like everyday nutrition. I mean, here we have the good old carb on carb, carb on carb

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on protein, you know. Yeah, exactly. That's what I was going to

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say like putting potatoes on a sandwich is kind of counterintuitive. But do you see that

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like in Latin America, you see a lot of sandwiches with fries or these kind of things.

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Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, double carb is, you know, there's nothing wrong with

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it. So another one is like, have you ever seen

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a picture of the first burger? Because that's also a sandwich and it's probably the most

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popular sandwich in the world. So it didn't look at all like the burgers we know today.

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Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, but then it's kind of like we get to the question sort of

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what makes a sandwich a sandwich, right? It's sort of like at what point is a sandwich a

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sandwich and at one point, isn't it? Is it the bread? Is it just the fact that you can

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like take it in your hand, just eat it on the go?

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Yeah, that's something we can discuss. I have some slides to talk about that. About the

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first burger, I wanted to mention like, it has nothing to do with Hamburg. At some point

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in the States, they started making what they called hamburger steak, which is basically

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a buletta. And someone came up with the idea of making the sandwiches and that they're

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doing it just like the original one still today. So you can have the original burger,

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which was with a square bread and a real thick patty. Nothing to do with the burgers we know

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today. It's called a patty melt, no? Like if you

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do it like that? I think, well, I don't know. I think patty

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is in the UK and the burger, the patty you would call it burger.

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No, but there is a type of sandwich where they make it exactly like that, which is called

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a patty melt. It's specifically like that. It was sort of like toasted milk bread and

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then like really sort of like smashed burgery with like very limited, because like burgers

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are often so overloaded, you know, and the patty melt is just kind of like smashed meat,

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cheese, onion, and like maybe some pickles and stuff on like toast.

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It's funny because then you're like adding a new name for the original one, which is

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strange, you know, same like with tomatoes. Tomatoes are tomatoes all around the world,

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except Mexico, which is Kito Mate, and that's the original world, the original word, sorry.

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So the rest of the people are just too lazy to add the G?

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I guess, yeah. Or it was lost in translation somehow.

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So the word sandwich comes from a nobleman from the 18th century. He was playing a card

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game and he asked to get like a steak between two breads. And I mean, and he said he was

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a genius. He was the first one in history to come up with that, which probably is not

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the case, but the names stuck. And that's why all sandwiches are called sandwiches.

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Of course. I mean, look at him, you know, he's like, he's like this aristocratic white

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guy and he's like, I've got this amazing idea. Nobody's done before. Let's just name it after

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myself. Right?

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He's really proud of himself. Like many, many things like in the Western

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culture. So let's break it into parts. Do you have like a favorite bread for sandwiches

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in general or is it case dependent? I think, I don't know, like there's this whole

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discussion of sort of like, you know, sourdough or not sourdough, there was this whole sourdough

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like rave. And I feel like loads of people started making like grilled cheese sandwiches

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and that sort of stuff with like this kind of country style sourdough. But I actually

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think that for sandwiches, like moving away from this, like artisanal bread is actually

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better, you know, not to talk about things like, I don't know, bimbo bread, you know,

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but like, I don't know if you guys know the brand bimbo bread, you know, people from Latin

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America and Spain and stuff, they will definitely know this, but this is like, it's like a brand

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of like super soft artificial white bread. And it's like delicious. It's sweet, it's

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soft, you know, and it's kind of like, I don't know, I don't want to chew, like I like sourdough,

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but I don't want to chew a piece of sourdough for grilled cheese sandwiches. Yeah, I agree.

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Like for sandwiches, the most gourmet thing I would come off is like a good brioche, which

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is like a very buttery bread. It has no water instead only eggs. It's actually kind of complicated

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bread to, especially in the kneading process. It has so much butter that you have to add

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it by parts as when you do a mayonnaise. So it's kind of like a sophisticated technique

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to pull it off. And I think that's the most elevated thing I would use for a sandwich,

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even also for a burger or different kinds of sandwiches. Yeah, I mean, like the thing

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with brioche is that it's like very enriched, because it's like an enriched bread, which

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means that you add loads of butter, you add loads of egg and milk and all that sort of

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stuff. There's like two versions that I actually prefer. Like there's a thing called Hokkaido

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milk bread, which is like less rich, but by the way that it's made, it's often made with

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a in German, we would call it Kochstück, which is basically like flour that is cooked. So

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like the gelatin in the flour, you cook it, the gelatin activates, you cool it down. And

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when you add it into a dough, it's modifies the dough, you add more moisture, which makes

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the crumb a lot softer and a lot more spongy. There's also a really nice Chinese recipe

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is called Tangsou, Tangzu, something like that, where you do exactly that you basically

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can just make a slurry out of flour and water, let that cool down and then mix it into your

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dough. And it makes the whole thing like super fluffy, super soft. And you don't have to

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add like so much butter or like oil or something like that to make the bread soft. That's actually

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for me, that's like my favorite. Like a good sandwich bread I like and I found it out just

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out of an accident. A restaurant we were working together, I had like a baguette in my prep.

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So and I had some surplus dough, so I just put it in a baking form. And I let it like

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over proof until it was really, really fluffy, much more than you would do with a baguette.

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And that is already like a super good sandwich bread. You know, it's like an easy hack to

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get like a bread that you can cut and use for the typical, you know, square sandwich

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and much better than, you know, the ones you buy in the supermarket. Yeah, for sure. What

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about condiments, sauces? Do you have any favorites, any musts that you would add to

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a sandwich? No, not really. I mean, this is like such an infinite sort of world of like,

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you know, possibilities. I mean, it can be anything. That's kind of the thing, you know,

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it's like you go from like culture to culture to culture and you'll find like just the most

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like the, you know, super, super different things. I don't know, like because I'm from

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Central Europe, you know, I feel like butter is, you know, kind of quintessential. I feel

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like when somebody makes like a piece of toast and they make a sandwich, they use something

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like olive oil. It just kind of makes me, it makes me cringe, you know? Yeah, I agree.

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There are things where olive oil is better, even some sandwiches. But yeah, butter is

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like the protagonist here. I would also say mayo or mustard, not ketchup. Ketchup is not

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my favorite, except for a burger. But like ketchup is a very controversial topic. Let's

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give it to mayo and mustard. Mayo is like, I don't know why mayo became this like, this

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like also quintessential sandwich component, you know, because like, I mean, you know more

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about you want to quickly delve into the history of mayonnaise because I can quickly explain

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it. So actually the word comes from an island in the Balearic Islands. It's called Maon.

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And this island was conquered by the French and they were actually looking for, they found,

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they were cooking alioli, which is the predecessor of mayonnaise. It's not that someone added

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garlic to mayonnaise. It's that someone took garlic out of alioli to make mayonnaise. So

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the French brought it to France and at some point the Spanish imported it back to Spain.

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And so that's the reason why in Spain, a lot of people say maonesa instead of mayonesa.

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But they like, it got like translated back into Spanish, the way the French were saying

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it, mayones, into mayonesa. And yeah, that's kind of the story behind it.

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The French fucked it up, you mean.

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Do you have any favorite mayo?

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I don't know. I mean, like, cupy mayo obviously is very nice. You know, it's, you know, if

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you add MSG to something, it always makes it like a little bit nicer.

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It also has like Japanese mustard and some other ingredients.

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Does it?

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Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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I feel like maybe they just like add a little bit so they can put more on ingredient list

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to like take away from the MSG component, you know, because that's really what makes

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it tasty.

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Yeah, whatever, whatever has a kid cartoon on its label and it's from Asia, it has MSG

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for sure.

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I mean, can we talk about it? Why is there a baby on the mayonnaise bottle? You know,

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I think that's really misleading.

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Yeah, but there is another one. It's called Healthy Boy brand. You know that one?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It's also like this high MSG sauces.

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Yeah, but he's a healthy boy, you know, he's chubby. He's like, it's like, you know, it's

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like what the yellow bean curd thing, right? The yellow, the fermented yellow bean sauce.

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That's healthy boy, right?

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Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean,

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I mean, I love that shit.

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Beans are healthy, you know.

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What about mustard?

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I mean, we're in the land of mustard, you know. Mustard, mustard is cool, man. Like,

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I feel like people really like mustard is really underrated. Here, like we have more

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of a culture like in Germany of mustard, you know, you can go to a supermarket and you can

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buy.

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20 different types.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly. And like different strengths, etc. Like I got really cross one time when

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I was living in the UK and I was doing a catering and the whole.

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British mustard is horrible.

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I wouldn't say that I wouldn't go that far. Coleman's mustard definitely has its place,

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I think. But like I remember the host of the catering, she was sort of like, oh yeah, like

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blah, blah, blah mustard. She was like nice and spicy mustard, not like your German mustard.

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And I was like, excuse me. I got seriously offended because I was like, man, you go to

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any supermarket, you have like tons of mustard, you know, and like also like really like here

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and in Belgium and in France, you have these like old mustard mills that still ferment

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the mustard like properly, like different chunkiness, you know, it's like stuff like

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blackberry mustard and like blueberry mustard, which is super delicious.

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Yeah, I've also seen one with figs or this kind of thing, dried figs and the mustard

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or black olives. Yeah, there are different fruits. Super nice. I recently saw like a

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headline in the New York Times, which I thought it was really funny. It said something about

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there's a scarcity of the young mustard in Colombia. And it says it would leave the eaters

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a tangy void in their hearts and sandwiches. Yeah, I mean, you know, they must be passionate

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about mustard, man. I don't know if I've ever felt a tangy void in my heart. I mean, not

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mustard related anyway.

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Maybe, maybe. What about the veggies? Do you have any preference on vegetables for your

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sandwiches? No, not really. I mean, like when I think of vegetables, I think more of pickles.

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I think pickles are really like, they're kind of quintessential to sandwiches, you know,

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but like veggies, that's kind of like a seasonal thing, you know, like whatever, whatever's

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around. I don't generally like the sandwiches that are like overloaded with vegetables,

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you know, instead of like, you know, unless it's just like a purpose, like a BLT, you

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know, BLT for me is like one of the nicest sandwiches ever. And like the best BLTs, like

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often they're like overloaded with bacon. But if you have really nice like hurled tomatoes

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and really, really delicious lettuce and then mayo, super quintessential in the BLT, and

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then a layer of like crispy, really, really crispy bacon. I mean, that's one of the best

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sandwiches ever.

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Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I think it's something that shouldn't be abused. This sandwich is

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really with a whole salad is like too much. And you want just like a fresh touch. Even

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if you're using something really dominant, like a rocket, you just want to put a few

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leaves on not like a big bunch that takes the whole thing.

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Yeah. But then again, I also feel like, you know, people often feel compelled, like they

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have to add something like this sort of like, they look at a sandwich and it's sort of like,

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man, should I add some lettuce, you know, I feel like that is like lettuce leaf that's

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peeking out on the side is missing. But sometimes you also have to just kind of be brave enough

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to just leave the lettuce out, you know, just let the sandwich be like not every sandwich

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needs, you know, needs like a handful of vegetables.

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And what about cooked vegetables or roasted vegetables?

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Yeah, super nice. I mean, like right now, I don't know, like, I don't know what you

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guys are thinking, but sort of like the sandwiches that we're talking about, we're kind of thinking

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about like slices of bread with like filling inside. But I mean, like, there's like loads

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of other sandwiches, like think of a pita bread, you know, a pita bread filled of like

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roasted vegetables is like one of the most delicious things ever.

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Yeah, I really like this escalivada, which is this kind of roasted ratatouille from from

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Catalonia. And that on a loaf of bread, that's that's a sandwich, maybe some very high quality

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and choice on top of that. That's it.

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That's amazing. Yeah, super nice.

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So and you mentioned pickles, do you have any favorite pickles or recommendations around

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pickles?

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Well, I mean, the OG of pickles is the pickle, right? That's why it's called a pickle. No,

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like otherwise, it'd be called, you know, pickled cucumber, but it's called pickle for

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a reason, right? Yeah, man, I mean, pickles is also one of these things that like I feel

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like people have kind of forgotten what a good pickle is, because you just you just

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used to these like shitty supermarket pickles. But like a good pickle, like whether it's

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pickled or it's fermented, or it's like brined, like brined pickle cucumbers are amazing,

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you know, when they're like properly properly brined with like a bit of dill and coriander

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seeds and stuff, they're super delicious. So I mean, that's I think that is the most

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important pickle.

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I think the best I've had were were in America, I will get that later. But also like, easy

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things are like jalapenos, or maybe just marinating onions in brine or, or in vinegar. And, you

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know, that's like really simple things to add it to the next level.

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Yeah, I think like, like Jewish cooking culture has a lot of really amazing pickle recipes,

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like, actually, I was one of the like best pickles that I tried also. And it's also just

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like beetroot pickle with like loads of grated horseradish. That is kind of like, it's more

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like a relish really that you cook it down with like a little bit of creme fraiche. And

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then you like keep it as like a pickle. It's more like a condiment, I guess. And that's

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super delicious. That was like some smoked fish, you know, it's amazing because it's

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like super if the beetroot the sweetness, you cut it with vinegar, and then you have

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the spiciness from the horseradish. That's super, super nice. One of my favorites also

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like, have you ever tried like green tomatoes? They're more like a thing in the US, but

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in Mexico, right? Yeah, yeah, but like never really pickled, I think. But like, like I've

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tried them fermented, and they're amazing, you know, often they need to stand for like

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a year. But once they're done, and they're kind of like fermented fruit, they're so like

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fruity and tart and they've got a super delicious like soft, but like, still like vegetabley

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texture as super tasty.

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I haven't had them like that. I had some in New Orleans, like green fried tomatoes, like

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the movie. Yeah, yeah. That's like a completely different thing. What about spreads? Do you

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add spreads to your to your sandwich?

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Yeah, pretty much always. I feel like a dry sandwich is just sad, you know, like it's,

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you know, it's, it's only so much butter you can add until it's like not dry anymore.

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Yeah, cream cheese or avocado, this kind of thing. Yeah, all of that pesto, you know,

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like, I mean, like the biggest one that I can think of is hummus, you know.

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Ah, yeah, for sure.

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Yeah, like a like a pita bread sandwich, you know, with like hummus, tahini, something

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like that is, you know, like without that, it would just it would just be crap, you know,

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it would just not be nice. Like, it's it's just as important as like, for me, it's just

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as important as like the bread or the filling.

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We haven't talked about sweet sandwiches. I'm not a big fan of like Nutella, peanut

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butter of these kind of things or marmalades. What about you?

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I am. I have I have some guilty pleasures with sweet sandwiches.

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Okay, go on, go on. Talk about it.

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I mean, I'm a big fan of PB&J sandwiches, you know, like, because it's just a winning

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combination.

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What's that? Like the peanut butter and marmalade?

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And jelly. Yeah, peanut butter jelly. Yeah. Yeah. But if you have like a nice sort of

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like, like crunchy peanut butter with like a nice like salt component, you know, like

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super nice and rosy. But the salt is really quintessential. Then you have like a nice

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jam. Like that's amazing. And I mean, you talked about Nutella. It's like I used to

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make Nutella at home myself, you know, just like out roasted hazelnuts, which sounds super

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fancy is something that you would do in COVID lockdown, I guess. But you should try it.

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It's really, really nice. Also needs like a really good amount of sea salt to be nice.

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But if you take that, and this is I mean, this is a little bit trashy, but like you

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take like just shitty white bread, you add Nutella, and then you add slices of banana,

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and then you put it into a then you put it into a sandwich press, you know, the ones

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that like divide the sandwiches into little triangles. That's just like that's just that

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shouldn't be allowed, you know, because you're like, I can't fuck you up, you know, a step

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further, you know, David the hothead, the Basque chef, the super fat one who was a Martin

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Verasategui is head chef for a while. Well, he's like this TV personality. He's also known

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as Robin foot in Spain. That's terrible. Well, and he had this this special book called what

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in Don Galas or something that like that, like, okay, really nasty bites. Yeah. And one was

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Nutella with Chistora, which is kind of like a cool turd. Oh, my god. That's that's really

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sacrilegious. I can't stand behind that. So what about sausages, cold cuts, apart from

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Chistora without Nutella for it? Yeah, I mean, you know, and again, it's like, it goes hand

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in hand, no, like, I mean, I grew up like I grew up in Spain. So it's especially like

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where I grew up in the Canary Islands, we had these type of bocadillos, which are basically

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sandwiches, but that were made in like, like a very particular kind of way. I think actually,

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like now understanding it more, it like comes from the villainous, like from the Latin influence

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of like Cubano's and stuff, where sandwiches are like really pressed, like on a plancha.

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So really like planchado and kind of like squished super crispy on the outside. And

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that's like, you know, I mean, this is called a pyjama or something like that. I don't know.

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I mean, for me, they were just bocadillos. Okay. Yeah. And do you use this bread called

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mollete that is very typical from the south of Spain? No, I mean, we like they would just

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use like normal like the usual like white bread. Okay. Like softer kind of baguette.

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Yeah, but going back to cold cuts, I think Europe, all over Europe, if you go to any

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country in every different region that they have their own different types of sausages

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or you know, like charcuterie, it's like a like a really rich culture in general. If

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we talk about Germany or France or Spain, you know, completely different things. Italy

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as well. Yeah, of course. But I guess it's like it goes like it makes sense, you know,

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because like you have something that is like processed for you to keep, right? So like

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that's what sausages kind of like a force like to preserve meat. So like all the stuff

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that you don't eat, you make sausage that keep longer. And then you like, you know,

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if you pack something for on the way, like if you're like, I don't know, shepherding

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or whatever you do in the dark ages. I guess people still shepherd, you know, but like,

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you know, you would take something that can keep, you know, so like you would put some

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stuff in a bread, you know, cheese, the same thing. I mean, it's just kind of, you know,

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it's just milk that you don't want to go to waste, you know, and then you just find a

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way to work around that. And then like necessity becomes a technique and the technique gets

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refined and refined. And it becomes part of the food identity and therefore the cultural

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identity. I mean, I'm a super, since you mentioned cheese, I'm a super cheese lover, but I don't

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get too complicated when it comes to sandwiches. Like a super good cheese. I actually want

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to eat it almost without bread, you know, like a stinky French cheese that reminds you

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of your nasty sockets, you know, but for a sandwich, I just want like something to buy

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in the supermarket. What do you mean? Like, like American Kraft cheese or like what? Yeah,

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like, I don't know, this one's already pre-sliced. I really like in Spain, you get a lot of goat

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cheese in that format. And that's what you want for a sandwich or even a high quality

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Emmental or something like that, that you slice yourself. I don't, I wouldn't use like, for

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instance, I don't know, like a sticky, a stinky Camembert or something like that. Yeah, yeah,

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for sure. I mean, like Spain does have like a really good selection of sliced cheeses.

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Like, especially, I mean, if we talk about like cheese sandwiches, we have to talk about

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grilled cheese sandwiches. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy how people get a

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grilled cheese sandwich like super wrong. I feel like it's just like bread and cheese,

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you know, but like it's never really good. Right? Like, do you do you make real cheese

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at home or? Not so much. I mean, I used to do well when I was a kid, but not lately.

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No, I don't know. I don't anymore that much. But I went through a phase where I feel like

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I made one every day. And it's kind of like with a fried egg. It's like if people think

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that like frying an egg really nicely is really easy. You know, you just bang an egg into a pan,

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but it's actually not, you know, not at all. I mean, it's not it is, but like, if you're like

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weirdly obsessed with how things are cooked, then it's not really, you know, because it's kind of

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like, well, the egg white cooks at a different speed than the egg yolk. And you don't want the

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egg yolk to be raw. And you want it to be a little bit crispy on the bottom. And you want the egg

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yolk to be just warm, but like without any gooey things, like without any gooey egg white on the

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top. It's kind of like that with the grilled cheese sandwich. It's sort of like, all right,

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you want the outside to be really toasted. You also want the heat to go to the very center of

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the sandwich. So it's like melted through because like seriously, there's nothing more sad than

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a grilled cheese sandwich that you cut into. And then there's like a chunk of un-melted cheese in

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the center. You know, it's just super depressing. No? What a disappointment, no? It also came to

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my mind when you were in Dubai, you were doing a lot of sando sandwiches, right? What's the deal

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with sando sandwiches? I mean, sando is basically like just the like word that they use in Japan

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for like a sandwich, you know, I mean, for these types of sandwiches. And again, there's sort of

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like, is this Hokkaido milk bread? It's like very soft, squishy bread. And it got like very popular

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over the last couple of years, especially with like these katsu cutlets. I mean, either sort of

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like these pork cutlets that are breaded and fried. And then it's also very simple. It's usually like

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served with this like bulldog sauce that you can buy in any like Asian supermarket. But traditionally

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it's made out of like onions and apples that are cooked down and caramelized for a really,

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really long time. So it's kind of like a barbecue sauce, sort of like sweet and tangy.

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And yeah, they become super popular. I mean, also because, you know, they just look cool,

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like you cut them, you cut the crust off, you cut them into these perfect like rectangles.

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They just look like visually really striking, especially if you have like a piece of wagyu

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that's like perfectly cooked. There's loads of places like opening up these last years that just

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do katsu sandos. Yeah, it's becoming a thing, right? Yeah, it really is. Yeah. This is also

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the bread you were mentioning that has a little bit of milk, but it's also like a sandwich bread.

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Yeah, it has some milk, but then it has some milk powder in it also. And I mean,

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there's different ways of making it, you know? I mean, like the Hokkaido milk bread recipes that

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I use, like you take, you divide the dough and you roll it up like individually. Sort of like

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you stretch it out, you roll it up one way and you then you flip it 90 degrees and you do the same

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thing. And what you then get is like this tall brioche looking loaf. But when you cut into it

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and you look at the crumb, you can basically like pull the crumb apart in these like long

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feathery stripes. I don't know if you've ever seen anything like that, but it's got this really,

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really lovely texture. And that's because, you know, you create the gluten and then you layer

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the gluten in a certain way, and then you let it prove up and it kind of bakes into it into itself.

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But any sort of like white bread, but like I wouldn't use brioche for that because it's too

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sweet and too rich. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, like a regular sandwich bread or maybe a tramazzini or

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something like that. A what? Tramazzini? What's that? Like an Italian bread for sandwiches for

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paninis. I don't know. I've never heard of this bread. What's it like? Is it just like a white?

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Yeah, but I mean, just like what you mentioned. I just know trapezini, which is like these little

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pizza triangles. No, these ones are like super long usually. Okay, but you know the pizza triangles

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that I'm talking about? This guy came up with them. He like baked, I think that fried actually was

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making pizza frittata and he was making these like little shapes that he then like deep fried and he

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cuts one part of it off and because the dough is so leavened, there's like a pocket and then he

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fills it with like meatballs and bolognese and stuff like that. Have you never seen that? No.

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It's like a big fast food thing in Italy. Like he's got like 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 60, 60, 60,

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he's got like 20 locations and like, you know. But what about also this crazy trash food culture

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in the States that they do like deep fried pizza inside a burger and the whole thing

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battered again and fried again? You know, like there are these art books that are just focused

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on that. Yeah, I don't know. You do know. You do. Don't pretend you don't. I remember once we were

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in Buck and Breck and your friend were showing us one of these books with this ultra trashy food.

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Yeah, I don't know. I don't know what to say about that. I try to close my eyes and ignore that part

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of the world, you know, that's the abyss of culinary creations, you know. But that brings

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me to that story. Like didn't you tell me the story about your friend here in Berlin who was like...

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Yeah, there are actually some witnesses here of that story. Yeah, like, well, this was in Prenzlau

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back there was this, you know, this Donner place that there are a Donner and in front of it you

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have like a pizza place, right? And I have this friend that there was, he was in Berlin just for

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three days and he was obsessed to have like, like ask a margarita and to have all the Donner

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ingredients and to roll the margarita. And they were like, no, we can't do that. So they called

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kind of like the owner who was at the pizza, who was on the back and he came out, okay, let's do it.

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Like really motivated. So they did the margarita, put all the ingredients on top and then they said

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we're not taking responsibility to roll it. So you have to do it yourself. It was like a huge

388
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:04,000
thing, man. It was really like, you know, like the diameter of a soccer ball, like really big.

389
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,600
And it took like, I don't know, like we had to call someone to help us eat the whole thing

390
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,560
because it was too much. You can't eat it and you just leave it in the fridge and you just slice

391
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:19,360
slices of it like a deli ham, you know, it's just like, that's some real Frankenstein shit.

392
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:27,840
Yeah, that's really funny. So tell us about what's the sandwich you're offering today?

393
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:34,480
Today, yeah. Yeah, as we are talking about sandwiches, we thought we'd make some sandwiches,

394
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:45,520
you know, yeah. So we've made some fried chicken sandwiches, you know, because I mean, that's

395
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:51,280
something that we really like to eat, you know, I mean, it's kind of like a craving. They're going

396
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:57,200
to be very simple. It's just like buttermilk marinated chicken with like a little bit of like

397
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:03,440
an Asian sort of influence. It's like a Szechuan kind of togarashi sort of seasoning and like a

398
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:11,280
shiso ranch dressing. We've also got a vegetarian option, which is like a mapo tofu. Oh, look,

399
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:18,640
hey, you've got it ready. Oh, sorry. I'm not supposed to talk about the pictures. Yeah, mapo tofu,

400
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:31,120
which is like, yeah, please. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Heard. Yeah, mapo tofu, which is like a

401
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:38,640
Chinese tofu stew. It's basically tofu that you braise in like Chinese bolognese, if you want to

402
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:44,160
call it that, like with like ground pork. But today, like it's totally veggie. It's just

403
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:50,880
marinated in this like spicy chili marinade, also crispy fried with the same with the same garnish.

404
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:58,880
Nice. Yeah. Nice. So you lived in Mexico for how long? One year, two years? Almost two years. Yeah,

405
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:05,600
almost two years in Mexico City. What's the deal with tortas? Man, tortas. Yeah, tortas are sandwiches.

406
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:11,520
That's what they are, you know, but tortas are these like monstrous sandwiches. Like, I mean, a

407
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:16,560
torta in itself is basically just like, I mean, it's just kind of almost like a baguette, but it's

408
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:23,520
like softer. And then it's filled with, you know, usually like deli meats, you know, vegetables,

409
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:28,400
onion, cheese, and that. But the thing in Mexico is that they take it to like another level,

410
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:34,560
where these, as you know, this often happens in Mexico, when they just take things to the absolute

411
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:40,560
extreme, where these sandwiches just transform into these huge ginormous monstrosities of

412
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,240
sandwiches in the best way possible. I would tell you all over Latin America, Venezuela, we have

413
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:49,360
something similar with burgers. It's like who makes the biggest burger with multi-ingredients

414
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,680
competition. Yeah. Yeah. What I liked in Mexico is that like you have these places, they have

415
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:58,240
then like 15 different types of tacos, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like

416
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:03,120
tortas that they make, and they all get like specific names. It's like, I can't remember any

417
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:08,560
of the tortas once, but they had it for tacos as well, where there was this one taco stand who

418
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:12,160
called their tacos like a specific name all the time. And there was like one that I really liked,

419
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:19,360
which is called El Abogado, which means the lawyer. And it was a lot of tongue and just a little bit

420
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:28,400
of brain, which was kind of funny. But like, you know, one thing that I absolutely didn't get,

421
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,480
because I love tortas, and they're sort of like, I mean, it's the kind of food that you, you look

422
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:37,280
at it and you're like, oh, let's get a torta, you know, let's just get a torta. And then you always

423
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,360
kind of like regret it afterwards, because you just destroyed. But like what I really didn't get

424
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:48,080
were the tortas ahogadas. Have you ever tried one of those? No, no, I've never tried tortas. I

425
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,640
haven't been in Mexico. So it's basically a torta, which I mean, you can only imagine this like big

426
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:58,800
fuck sandwich. And then it's basically like soaked in a like a tomato and chili salsa until it's

427
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:03,680
like completely soaked through. And then you obviously gets wrapped up, you take it away and

428
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:11,840
you open it. It's basically like this sloppy soaked up like bread and filling mess. Which I'm sure

429
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,400
it's delicious, but like I never understood it's like taking, it's like taking a I guess people do

430
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,560
do that. Now that I think of it taking a hamburger and dipping it in gravy. Yeah, people actually do

431
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:26,320
that now. Yeah, okay. There is a Chicago sandwich where they do exactly that. Yeah, they dip the

432
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:32,320
sandwich in the cooking juice. Yeah. And there is even like a position to eat that sandwich with

433
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:37,360
your elbows in a certain position. So you don't make a mess out of yourself. That sounds really

434
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:43,840
culty. I don't know. I've never seen that. But like, I mean, that I guess like if you have like

435
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,440
the dipping thing on the side and you dip it in you eat it like that makes sense to me, I would do

436
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,760
that. But like imagine taking the whole like a whole burger and having like a bucket of gravy

437
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:56,000
and just dunking the whole thing in and then wrapping it up and it's like, all right, there you go.

438
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,320
It is something like that. It's something like that. Yeah. What about the donors here where

439
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:06,720
they heat the bread with the directly with to the species? I don't know. Like for me, that's like a

440
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:10,400
sign that you are at a good place. You know, it's like when they when they do that, it's like,

441
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,880
all right, they like, because they take care of it because they don't have to make sense. You know,

442
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:19,760
the fat stripping out, they're like, you know, just kind of like, that's good. Yeah, I agree.

443
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:26,720
100%. So my favorite sandwich and I've said many times that this would be like my last supper for

444
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:33,120
sure. It's just like a good Iberico just for ingredients, Iberico, good olive oil, good

445
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:39,520
tomatoes and good bread. That's it. Super simple. And for me, it's also the best way to eat like good

446
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:46,240
ham, which by the way, we can discuss about oil, maybe Italian might be better than Spanish, but

447
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:52,320
ham, Spanish ham has just no competition. My opinion. Yeah, no, absolutely. That's true. But

448
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:57,680
this is the thing, like, you know, panto maca is like one of the most delicious things ever.

449
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:02,320
And for people who don't know, I mean, it's literally just a type of Spanish white bread is

450
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:08,720
called pan cristal, which is like a baguette, but kind of like more open, like the the crumbs

451
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:15,040
more open and it gets super, super crispy. You toast it as a very, actually, we have to be careful.

452
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:20,400
It's very controversial topics for Spanish people, you know, garlic or no garlic or like, you know,

453
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,960
like just brushing the tomato grating tomato on the side, because like, honestly, people say,

454
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:33,040
just brush the tomato on top. No, but also like, just using a garlic clove is putting it just

455
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:38,960
around, just scrape it on top. Exactly. Yeah. So you just scrape it on top, little bit of like olive oil,

456
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:44,880
and then you just usually you cut a tomato in half. You don't cut it from like, you don't cut it

457
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:50,240
vertically, you have to cut it horizontally. It's very, very important, actually. And then you just

458
00:37:50,240 --> 00:37:54,800
brush the tomato over this crispy bread, and it soaks up all the juices and you just add some sea

459
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,800
salt, some olive oil, and that's it. But it's one of the most delicious things ever. And I think if

460
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,680
people haven't tried it, like, it sounds so weird. You take a crispy piece of bread, you rub some

461
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,920
stuff on it, and then it's like tasty, like it's, but it's so good. It makes me crazy when I see

462
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:13,840
people having like a super good ham and adding mozzarella to it and pepper and different things.

463
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:22,800
It's like, no, don't do it. Yeah, that's terrible. Yeah. The other Spanish sandwiches, have you tried

464
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:28,960
sobrasada? Yeah, of course. It's amazing. You know, it's basically like chorizo spread, right? Something

465
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,200
like that. Yeah, it's yeah, exactly. It's like a sausage, but then you open it and soft inside and

466
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:38,800
you just kind of like spread it on bread. I mean, it's insanely delicious. Yeah. And sobrasada with

467
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:46,880
like a good cheese and caramelized onions, a super typical combination. It's sobrasada with honey,

468
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:51,040
actually. That's really nice. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, earlier we were talking about like wooden nutella

469
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:58,000
with chistora. I mean, that's wrong. No, it's not, man. You have to open your mind. There's only so

470
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:04,800
much that I can, there's only so much space for my mind to open. But yeah, sobrasada with honey and

471
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,400
then a little bit of salt, you know, it's amazing. Yeah, but there is also dark side, you know,

472
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:14,560
like sobrasada comes also from the Balearic Islands and they have these things called ensaimadas,

473
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:20,960
which is, you know, like a sweet thing. There are ensaimadas with sobrasada and that I don't get,

474
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:26,560
you know, it's like putting chorizo to your cinnamon rolls. I don't know. I can kind of see

475
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,880
it to be honest with you. Like I can kind of see it. Yeah, I can kind of see it. I mean, I tried it

476
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:36,640
and I was like, I don't get this. And everybody was like, ensaimada with sobrasada. Yeah. You have

477
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,720
to be really careful with these like sweet and savory combinations. Like it goes from sort of

478
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:45,600
like, oh, that's really like quite smart to like, what the fuck are you doing? Get away from the

479
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:51,760
sandwich place. Really quickly. Yeah. And then also in San Sebastian, they have this mini sandwiches

480
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:56,640
that are pinches that are baguettes, the size of a biscuit with different combinations. Yeah.

481
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:03,040
There's a famous one. It's called the completo, which is tuna belly, piparras, which is the local

482
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:09,040
pickle chili, mayo and anchovies. And man, it's super nice. You know, I've never tried that

483
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:14,560
actually. Yeah, it's called completo. And another one I really liked, it was like, they call it,

484
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:21,520
how was it like, morsee, chorimorsee or something like that. It was half chorizo, half morsella,

485
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:28,320
like chorizo and black pudding. So it looked like a black chorizo. That was also really nice.

486
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:36,720
What about cheap calamari sandwiches? Man, that's a quintessential. Like if you like,

487
00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:42,320
it's, yeah, it's, you know, I mean, what is that? You know, it's, you look at it as like,

488
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:47,200
it's just like a piece of bread with like fried calamari in it. But honestly, it's like a can,

489
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:54,480
like you're out of the day at the beach, you know, you buy like a, when botellones used to

490
00:40:54,480 --> 00:41:01,360
still be a thing, you know. Yeah. For me, this is synonymous with beach or Madrid. Yeah. But you

491
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,280
know, you buy, you buy like a liter, one and a half liter bottles, whatever it is of San Miguel,

492
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:11,680
and you get a calamari sandwich with, with aioli. It has to be with aioli. You know, it's amazing.

493
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:17,840
One of the best things in life. In Venezuela, we have this typical pork sandwich that is called

494
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:25,280
pernil. It's one of my favorites. So it has a lot of pork, but I have like a really funny story.

495
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:32,400
When I was in Bolivia, my friend Diego Prado was visiting. He wanted, he had some lists of places

496
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:38,000
to go. And there was this super legendary in Bolivia, they call it sandwich, the chola,

497
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:44,320
which is basically a pork leg sandwich. But the story with this one, there were two sisters,

498
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:52,160
like vendor spots in the street. And the first one had like a long queue, people waiting to

499
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:57,120
have the sandwich. So it was like a really, really nice sandwich. We actually got to try them both

500
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:03,120
because we were the last one in the first queue. So once it ended, everybody turned into the second

501
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:08,640
one. Once the first one was sold out. So everybody went to the first one first and the second. So we

502
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:14,880
tried the first one. It was amazing. The second one was not so amazing. Good, but not that crazy.

503
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:20,800
Right. And then we had the story that these two women were sisters that had like a fight and

504
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:25,520
hadn't talked to each other like in 10 years. And they have been doing that for the last 10 years,

505
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:30,560
like this sandwich beef in the middle of the street. And they must have the best beef. I mean,

506
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:39,280
pun intended. But like imagine the tea behind that. It sounds like a telenovela. Yeah, Bolivian

507
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:47,200
telenovela, cholita telenovela. What about Nordic countries? Smorbrot? Yeah, I mean,

508
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:53,440
Smorbrot also, it's like, there's like such a cool culture like behind it. I mean, honestly,

509
00:42:53,440 --> 00:43:00,240
Danish rye bread is one of my favorite breads ever. It's like if it's made right. It's so delicious,

510
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:07,200
you know. It's, I mean, super dense. It's like full of whole grain and full of seeds. And then

511
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,120
basically, I mean, like that's a country of open faced sandwiches, right? It's kind of like,

512
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,960
like earlier, you know, we're talking about pan tomaka and stuff like that. It's kind of like,

513
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:20,000
is it a sandwich? You know? Exactly. It's like, well, they call it open faced sandwich. Yeah.

514
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:24,080
This is something you eat with fork and knife, which is against the rules of a sandwich.

515
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:31,680
That's true. Yeah, totally. So is it a sandwich? But I mean, but like the content wise,

516
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:37,840
it's really interesting what it has. Yeah, it always had some pickles, some cured meats or fish,

517
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:42,880
always a cream. But like they go crazy with it. Because like, especially nowadays, where they kind

518
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:48,240
of, because the Nordic countries are kind of a little bit dead, you know, in certain aspects,

519
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:53,680
like culinary wise, but like with like now it's obviously completely changed to the whole Nordic

520
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,200
food movement and stuff. Not to say that there wasn't good food there, but like there was less

521
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:03,360
of an attention on the Nordic countries. And then the whole Nordic food movement came along with,

522
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:09,520
you know, the Noma people and all the people that kind of came out of that. And what's the guy

523
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:17,040
called? Klaus Meyer. Klaus Meyer. And now people are really celebrating this like thing that they've

524
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:21,280
had for hundreds of years. And they've kind of like make it more intricate. And now there's these

525
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:27,840
like amazing Smurra bread places where they get like creative, but in a nice way with the toppings.

526
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:32,400
And they kind of like super fill it up, you know, with roast beef and, you know, super amazing

527
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:37,520
house made pickles and horseradish. And I mean, the seafood scene in the Nordic countries is

528
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,440
amazing, obviously, you know, these like fjord shrimps that they have, you know, that you can

529
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:47,040
just eat raw, like just a little bit boiled. And it's like, I love it. It's super nice. I mean, the next

530
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,360
time, like when I go to Copenhagen, it's definitely on my list to go to a really nice Smurra bread place.

531
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:58,320
Yeah, now I feel like going to Copenhagen. What about wraps? Are wraps sandwiches? I would say

532
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:05,680
these are, these have to be the predecessors of the sandwiches we know today before this British

533
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:16,720
guy said, oh, I'm a genius. Oh, was he British? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know, man. I'm not so sure,

534
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:20,400
to be honest with you. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, like you said, that's kind of a cool thing

535
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,720
about sandwiches, no? It's like that it's like, it's probably like when I eat like a, like a

536
00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:29,280
falafel sort of pita bread, I kind of think like, this is like one of the foods that's kind of

537
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:37,600
remained relatively the same for like so long. And thinking of sort of like, you know, like a cultural

538
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,760
identity and like food evolution throughout the years, you know, I think that's kind of amazing

539
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:47,280
because it's kind of like, it's like so primal in a way. It's like bread cooked in like a hot

540
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,040
oven over the fire, like a flat bread, you know, and then just like stuff on top that you eat.

541
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:57,200
But I don't know, is it a sandwich? I don't know. Yeah, I actually agree on that one. What about

542
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:05,600
these things where you have like rice cakes or ramen to make a sandwich, like grilled ramen?

543
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:14,880
I don't know, man. I don't know. It's, I guess so. Right? Like, I guess so. Why not? You know?

544
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:20,000
Yeah. You don't seem convinced. No, I'm not. I'm not convinced. I'm trying to convince myself.

545
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:27,760
Tahirazi, right? I don't know, but I'm from a bread eating country, you know, like, yeah, like

546
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:32,560
is sushi a sandwich? You know, it's like rice. It's like fish that's wrapped in rice. Like, and I mean,

547
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:37,360
the sushi like originated because of that. It's kind of like, right. So we have, have you guys

548
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:42,400
ever seen like the original sushi that's like pressed? Right. I mean, because the rice in sushi

549
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:47,360
is vinegared, right, which makes it, obviously vinegar makes things keep longer because it's

550
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:54,160
antibacterial. And one of the like very first versions was with mackerel that was very lightly

551
00:46:54,160 --> 00:47:03,280
brined. And then put into a sort of rectangular box with rice and then pressed and then sliced,

552
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,320
right? And then wrapped in seaweed. So that you could take this, it would keep for a little bit

553
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:13,200
longer. And you could take it on the go and eat it. Right. And that again, is like an example,

554
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:20,400
like with sandwiches of sort of like a necessity that becomes like a trend in a way. And then,

555
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,480
you know, gets refined and refined, refined and becomes like part of the food culture, you know?

556
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,880
So you could kind of say that sushi is a sandwich. I don't know.

557
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:37,200
Yeah. Like it actually makes sense. Like it's kind of like a structural thing talking about sandwiches.

558
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,160
Yeah. What about croissants? Sandwich with croissants?

559
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:45,920
Yeah, for sure. For sure sandwich. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. No doubt. Yeah. You don't think so?

560
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,920
What's the best way for you to eat a croissant? Do you have like any preference?

561
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:57,280
Yeah, I actually do. I think if you have a nice croissant and it's like, if you have a nice

562
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:01,120
croissant, just eat the fucking croissant. You know, like don't do anything with it. But if it's

563
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:06,320
like the day after and this croissant is a little bit stale, sliced open and then sort of like,

564
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:10,240
you know, like whatever you want to put in. I really like this like Italian ham, this like cooked

565
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:15,200
rosemary ham. That's has like this rosemary crust. It's like, it's not cured, it's the cooked one,

566
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:19,280
right? Yeah. That and like a little bit of cheese and whatever you want to put in. Like if you really

567
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,560
want to, if you really want to go that way and want to put some rucola leaves in or whatever,

568
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:26,560
you know? Yeah, that sounds really amazing. And then you put it on a plancha and you press it

569
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:31,280
until it's really flat, you know? That's like, for me, that's the best thing. It's kind of like,

570
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:36,400
it really like revives the croissant. It's got like enough butter in it to get like really crispy and

571
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:40,960
hot. But like, you have to press it super, super flat, you know, and just like embrace the like,

572
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:48,880
the two dimensions, aspect of the sandwich, you know? Like a croissant hack I learned not so long

573
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:54,160
ago. You know, many of these toasters, they have like this part on top of the toaster,

574
00:48:54,160 --> 00:49:00,720
which is actually to toast croissants. So the croissants don't get inside the toaster, but it

575
00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:06,400
gets enough heat to get completely crispy, you know, like a fresh baked croissant. So you can

576
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:11,920
regenerate like a croissant the next day, instead of destroying it like you were just describing.

577
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:21,520
Hey, don't croissant shame me, man. We all have our moments, okay? Yeah, but that's cool. I've

578
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:26,560
never tried that actually. Yeah, it's really cool. Yeah. Do you toast your breads when you do

579
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:32,240
sandwiches? Like do you use a pan or do you prefer like a toaster? It really depends. I mean,

580
00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:38,640
like if I'm just making like a like a filled sandwich, I toast them. But like I most of the

581
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:42,640
time I fill it in a way where I want the cheese to melt. So I usually always build a sandwich and

582
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:48,880
then do it in a pan like I would with the grilled cheese. Okay, I actually like toasting toasting

583
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:55,040
the bread before like with lots of butter on both sides or on a toaster. Yeah, whatever. But like,

584
00:49:55,040 --> 00:50:00,080
I mean, like, I think the winner is like the panini grill, you know, like a panini grill is

585
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,160
such an amazing piece of equipment. I think it's one of the most underrated pieces of equipment

586
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:11,440
ever. I like when I was still like a much younger chef, like I did a pop up in London and in this

587
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:18,080
really raggedy small kitchen. And we didn't have any equipment apart from like an induction and

588
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,920
a panini grill. And the amount of things that you can find that you can do on a panini grill is

589
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:27,280
absolutely amazing. Yeah, really. It's like, you know, absolutely. I think it's one of the most

590
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,880
underrated pieces of equipment ever, you know, from like grilling spring onions with like these

591
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:38,080
beautiful like char marks and searing meats. Like a pan bread on a panini grill. Yeah, like the bread

592
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:45,680
itself. Yeah, yeah, probably. Yeah. Have you ever seen like professional do you toast your buns

593
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:51,600
when you're doing a burger? Yeah, 100% with a regular toaster or how? No, on a on a griddle

594
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:57,680
usually. Because that's also something I learned. I used like a regular toaster and I learned that

595
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:02,240
burger places like McDonald's, they have like this super sophisticated toasters where you get a bun

596
00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:10,240
toasted like in five seconds on both sides. And I was working on a project for a burger company and

597
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:15,360
I learned this. And since then, I always use like a regular toaster and it works out super well.

598
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:24,720
A regular toaster for burger buns? Yeah. Oh, nice. Yeah. So do you have any like memorable

599
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:31,600
sandwich you ever tried somewhere that you want to talk about? Oh, yeah. I mean, I

600
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:38,400
there's this place in London called Dusty Knuckle Bakery. And they do like

601
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,680
regularly changing sandwiches. And they're just like super I mean, they're like not

602
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,960
like crazy naughty or anything. But it's exactly like what you want. It's like a

603
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:52,000
nice spread like roasted vegetables, really good deli meat, like really nice cheese and stuff.

604
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,760
And then they bake all the bread themselves. So it's like it's super nice. And they're just like,

605
00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:01,520
and they'll do the sort of like, you know, roasted squash with like hazelnut pesto and goats cheese,

606
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:07,680
you know, and it's like, oh my god, so nice, you know, just kind of like really like with like a

607
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:13,600
chef's perspective, you know, they were like really nice combinations. Like simple ingredient focus,

608
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:18,000
but like super interesting and just super, super delicious. For me, for sure, the best sandwich

609
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:25,600
I've had in my life was in Florence in Italy in Tuscany, is this place called Atlantico Vinato.

610
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:32,720
And that well, first of all, in most of Tuscany, all the breads are almost without salt. So it's

611
00:52:32,720 --> 00:52:37,280
kind of annoying, you know, you're in a restaurant, you have your bread, it doesn't have salt. And

612
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:45,600
it's like, it's Tuscany bread. Nice. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, exactly. But this one has, they do like this,

613
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:50,320
it's not a focaccia, it's a different type of bread. But, you know, in terms of structure,

614
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:58,000
it's kind of like a focaccia. And so many people, it's for a lot of food writers, the best sandwich

615
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:05,280
place in the world. I had this one that they do like a local salami. And it has like a pecorino cream,

616
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:12,480
then also an artichoke cream and spicy aubergines. That's it. Yeah, that's amazing. You know, I mean,

617
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:16,880
that's the genius of like Italian cooking in general, you know, it's just sort of like just

618
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:22,880
super simple product focused, you know, it's just like not overloaded, seasonal. And then there's

619
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,960
just the quality of like, because like what makes these sandwiches like so good, it's just like the

620
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:34,000
pure quality of like, you know, if you just have like a mortadella, you know, just a super high

621
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,760
quality mortadella, you don't really need anything anymore. Mortadella, a little bit of olive oil,

622
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:44,480
you know, that's it. Well, talking about mortadella, like Anthony Bourdain's favorite sandwich is like

623
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:53,760
just a bun grilled mortadella, grilled cheese. So you grill like the mortadella on a pan,

624
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,360
as you would do with, you know, like with a steak or anything. That's in the States, that's called

625
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:04,880
a fried bologna sandwich, you know. And then it's just mustard and mayonnaise. That's it. Yeah. Hey,

626
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:10,000
that's a winner, you know, like honestly, like, I like that, you know, it's, I got that from an

627
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:16,320
American friend of mine. She was just like buying like store bought like mortadella in Spain, just

628
00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:22,000
like put it in a pan. And I was like, what are you making? She's like bologna. Making bologna.

629
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:26,320
Yeah. And it's really good, you know, with like a spicy mustard with it, you know, and then like,

630
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:31,280
if you add nice cheese, you know, super nice. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. I think we've reached

631
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:38,000
time to perhaps make questions if someone in the audience wants to make a question before they do

632
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:45,520
in the mic. Do we have sandwich related questions or just general questions? I would like to know

633
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:53,600
where is this Atlantico Vinayo, which is a place in Italy where it is? It's in Florence, Florence,

634
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:58,640
and they have like six different shops in the city. Yeah. But they've actually just opened in the

635
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:04,480
States also. Like they've just, yeah, like very recently, I think, like, I think probably New

636
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:09,680
York. Okay. Yeah. And because it was so, they got so Instagram famous also, you know, with these like

637
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:14,960
big like stacked up mortadella sandwiches that they, I think somebody reached out to them and

638
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:19,440
offered them a lot of money. Yeah, because the sandwiches are like a plate size, like a huge

639
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:31,360
thing. They're huge. Yeah. Any more questions? Talking about grilled cheeses, there used to be

640
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:35,440
a place here in Berlin, which was called Tin Man. They had an excellent grilled cheese, but

641
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:41,360
unfortunately they closed. Where would you go for a good grilled cheese now? Oh, that's difficult.

642
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:47,360
In Berlin. That's difficult. Honestly, I haven't had like a super standout grilled cheese

643
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:56,080
here yet. The closest thing that I can think of is 44 Brecky in Friedrichshain. They do like an

644
00:55:56,080 --> 00:56:00,480
egg drop sandwiches with like melted cheese. And it's like, it's more like a brunch breakfast place.

645
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,960
And they're kind of like similar to that. They make really nice bread, like really nice milk

646
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:10,720
bread. And it's these like very thick sandwiches with like egg drop, bacon and cheese. And they're

647
00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:14,240
very nice. Like they're very, very good. But grilled cheese, like a puristic grilled cheese,

648
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:23,520
I don't know where you would go. No idea. Not in Berlin, especially. Yeah. Anyone else? Okay.

649
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:32,800
Because Phil, you said that making a grilled cheese sandwich is not really easy. So can you show

650
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:37,120
everyone or tell anyone, you know, what they have to take care of when they want to make a really

651
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:41,840
good sandwich? I mean, I can't show anybody because I'd have to pantomime making a grilled cheese.

652
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:50,320
That would get awkward. Yeah. So it's pretty simple. Like it's you choose your bread, you choose the

653
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:55,920
cheese. I would say, like if you're a butter person, you lightly butter the inside of the bread,

654
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:00,720
but then you build your sandwich and you butter the outside of the bread also. Just a very thin,

655
00:57:00,720 --> 00:57:06,240
even layer on all the bread. And then I usually started in a cold pan, right? So I put the bread

656
00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:11,600
in the pan and I turn the heat on to medium and I wait until one side is like really nicely golden

657
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:16,240
brown, but not all the way that I want it to be golden brown. Then I flip it and you also put some

658
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:21,440
weight on it, right? You press it down. It can be another pan, can be a pot or you know, like this.

659
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:25,920
I mean, in professional kitchens, we have special weights that we use for when we're searing fish

660
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:30,880
or anything so that it keeps it flat and in contact to the pan. And that really helps

661
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:35,760
transmit the heat, but also keep the sandwich like really nice and flat and press it down,

662
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:41,200
keep it together. And then once I have the other side browned sort of like 70% of the way,

663
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:46,160
I flip it again, brown a little bit more, flip it again. Like that you kind of extend the time

664
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:52,480
that the sandwich is in a pan and by that time the cheese should be fully melted. And then if you

665
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:56,880
want to go extra, depending on how fatty the cheese is and how much butter you put on your bread,

666
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:03,040
just give it a little dab on like a little bit of like a paper towel to just take the excess fat

667
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:12,160
off and then the bread will be super crispy. Nice. Another one? Okay. So a big round of applause,

668
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:12,960
please.

669
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:24,240
Thanks, everybody for coming. It's super nice to see, you know, all the friendly faces. And

670
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:28,560
since you're so cool people, everyone who came to the show is going to get a free sandwich.

671
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:35,680
So it's getting prepared outside and Chef Phil will, you know, put on his secret magic and I

672
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:38,560
hope you all enjoy it. Thank you so much.

673
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:49,840
Maybe give us a couple of minutes to set up outside. I don't know what the situation is

674
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:55,520
there, you know, but yeah, we should be shouldn't take too long. As you're waiting, obviously you

675
00:58:55,520 --> 00:59:02,560
can look up for potluck food talks on Spotify or anywhere you listen to your podcasts. You know,

676
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:10,560
give us give us a follow. Give us a five star review and all the shebang. All right, yeah,

677
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:15,360
we're going to set up a little bit. So just feel free to get something to drink, hang out a little

678
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:20,160
bit. And once the sandwiches are almost done, I'll let you know.