1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,800 Hi everyone. 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,100 Welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks. 3 00:00:08,100 --> 00:00:11,280 Today we have a special guest, John Reggevald. 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,740 He's a chef with a long track record. 5 00:00:14,740 --> 00:00:20,700 He's from Sweden, but he has worked for many years in Italy and for the last years in the 6 00:00:20,700 --> 00:00:21,700 Basque Country. 7 00:00:21,700 --> 00:00:24,300 And he's calling us from the Paris airport. 8 00:00:24,300 --> 00:00:25,300 How are you, John? 9 00:00:25,300 --> 00:00:26,300 I'm fine. 10 00:00:26,300 --> 00:00:27,300 Thank you very much. 11 00:00:27,300 --> 00:00:29,020 Thank you very much for having me, Eric. 12 00:00:29,020 --> 00:00:30,020 It's a pleasure. 13 00:00:30,020 --> 00:00:34,160 Yeah, I just landed in Paris from Lebanon, actually, where I've been doing some work 14 00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:36,240 on a project we're doing right now. 15 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:37,240 Nice, nice. 16 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,660 So today the topic is new Nordic cuisine. 17 00:00:40,660 --> 00:00:44,480 And I wanted to talk with you about this because I know you've been lecturing about this at 18 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:47,520 Basque Culinary Center and also you're Swedish. 19 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:52,240 So first of all, how would you define new Nordic cuisine? 20 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:53,240 Why is it? 21 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:54,240 What is it? 22 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:55,240 And why is it important? 23 00:00:55,240 --> 00:01:01,280 Well, I would say new Nordic cuisine is probably important because of the effect that it has 24 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,200 had like in the in the rear view mirror. 25 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:11,480 I would say we've been talking about new Nordic cuisine now for basically 20 years. 26 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:18,380 And I would really say I at least notice it has had a big effect on other contemporary 27 00:01:18,380 --> 00:01:20,360 cuisines from around the world. 28 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:25,160 So that's why I'm saying in the rear view mirror, I think it has been a really, really 29 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,640 important stepping stone as a contemporary cuisine. 30 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:34,620 And it actually, I mean, it started back in the early 2000s. 31 00:01:34,620 --> 00:01:43,960 And I would say that it's kind of characterized by minimalist presentations, but also this 32 00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:49,920 search for kind of going back to the roots and the original flavors of the territory, 33 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:56,200 even though you might use innovative techniques in the kitchen, but still the focus is always 34 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,600 kind of on the ingredients. 35 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:08,200 And I would almost say kind of it's a reinvention or adaptation of a cuisine based on preservation 36 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:09,200 techniques. 37 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:13,200 That's usually what I tell my students as well. 38 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:18,840 We have a lot of preservation techniques, of course, in the Nordic countries as anywhere 39 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:23,960 around the world, but very, very focused on a lot of fermentation, a lot of pickling and 40 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,240 smoking and drying and so on. 41 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:30,160 So of course, there's a lot of techniques, traditional ones that you can use even in 42 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:31,920 a contemporary cuisine. 43 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:36,080 But I would say the new Nordic cuisine is a little bit different in that way. 44 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:41,520 Instead of taking traditional recipes and giving them kind of a twist, you know, which 45 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:46,000 might be the first approach, the first easiest approach, take a traditional recipe, give 46 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,960 it a modern twist and you're good to go. 47 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:56,440 Instead, what I see happened in the new Nordic cuisine was an exploration of the ingredients 48 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:02,880 themselves as a starting point for innovation instead of starting from a ready-made recipe 49 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,720 from our grandfathers or grandmothers or whatever, you know. 50 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:13,160 Which is what happened in the new Basque cuisine, that they wanted to take recipes from grandmothers 51 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,000 and bring them to high-end restaurants. 52 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:22,160 Well, correct me if I'm wrong, my way to define, so to say, a new Nordic cuisine, I would say, 53 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:27,480 is a movement where the focus was towards not only, well, you mentioned ingredients, 54 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:33,480 but to be more specific, local ingredients that weren't as valorized as before, if I 55 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:34,520 understand correctly. 56 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,440 As it happened in many countries, high-end restaurants in the Nordic countries were more 57 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:43,040 looking to France and to Europe instead of looking inwards. 58 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:47,160 This was kind of the inflection point, is that correct, more or less? 59 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:48,800 I totally agree with you there. 60 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:54,760 I mean, in the Nordic countries, we had the same, you know, French cuisine movement, French 61 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,720 cuisine-influenced movement during the 70s, 80s, 90s. 62 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:05,760 So this was kind of a counteraction almost to create something really new but really 63 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,160 local. 64 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:12,720 So not importing ingredients from France, not basing ourselves on French technique, 65 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:18,200 but looking into our own terroir, into our own countries and seeing what ingredients 66 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:19,640 do we have. 67 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:24,720 Maybe even ingredients that we used to use back in the days, like hundreds of years ago, 68 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:29,680 but had been forgotten or ingredients that you actually have to go out and search for 69 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,860 yourself and forage because you can't find them in the supermarket, you know. 70 00:04:33,860 --> 00:04:40,560 So it was a way to differentiate yourself from other regions and really look into what 71 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:46,080 do we have in our landscape, in our forests. 72 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,400 Where is the differential? 73 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,280 What is unique from here? 74 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:55,080 Was there a starting point, same as in the new, or are there like grandfathers of the 75 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:56,080 new Nordic cuisine? 76 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:02,280 In my perception, I would say, Bobec was doing new Nordic before new Nordic was a thing, 77 00:05:02,280 --> 00:05:05,200 or I don't know, was there someone else? 78 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:10,680 It's quite funny, this new Nordic cuisine, because there's really like, there's really 79 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:17,440 a point, there's really a kind of a date where a group of chefs sat down around the table 80 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:25,060 and they agreed upon a new set of rules for what they were calling the new Nordic cuisine. 81 00:05:25,060 --> 00:05:30,000 So there's actually a very clear starting date for this. 82 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,480 But of course, there were people doing stuff like this beforehand as well. 83 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:40,960 I mean, I remember one of my first memories of when I was really surprised by someone 84 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:47,900 doing things differently back in the 90s, it was the chef Magnus E from a restaurant 85 00:05:47,900 --> 00:05:49,600 Oaxen in Sweden. 86 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:55,040 And he was doing what I would say would fit perfectly into the new Nordic cuisine way 87 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:59,360 before it was even defined and written on a paper. 88 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:08,080 So we're talking mid 90s, and he really created his own local cuisine, naturally delimited 89 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:13,760 by space because he was on an island, he was on the Oaxen island, and he was using ingredients 90 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:15,480 from that same island. 91 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:21,700 So it was very, very logic for him to have a very, very local approach to ingredients, 92 00:06:21,700 --> 00:06:26,020 a lot of foraging, a lot of using what was available on the island. 93 00:06:26,020 --> 00:06:33,240 But also he was very focused on using traditional old Nordic cooking techniques, preservation 94 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:34,240 techniques. 95 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:42,040 So that's, Bobek is another example of people doing things before new Nordic cuisine was 96 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:43,040 defined. 97 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,000 But for me, I think Magnus Eck was probably the first one where I really thought like, 98 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:53,560 wow, this guy is really doing something different when all the other ones are still in kind 99 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,000 of a French Nordic cuisine. 100 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:02,680 And would you say, what would you read your top list of strongest exponents? 101 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,760 I don't know, Cox come to my mind, maybe Faviken, Noma. 102 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,120 How would you build like a top five list in your opinion? 103 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:16,520 Yeah, I would say, of course, I mean, everyone knows René Recepio of Noma. 104 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:22,480 I would say a little bit later as well, Magnus Nielsen of Faviken, Espen, Holmer Bann of 105 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,200 Maemo, of course. 106 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:31,000 I think Magnus, no, sorry, sorry, Matthias Dahlgren as well in Sweden was doing, he was 107 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:36,360 doing kind of a, in the 90s, Southern Europe inspired kitchen. 108 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:43,440 But he pivoted to a really, really Nordic cuisine in a very natural way, which also I 109 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,240 find was very interesting. 110 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:54,040 As I said before, of course, Magnus Eck of Aarxen and maybe even Klaus Meyer. 111 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:59,880 He's not really the chef that the other ones are that we've been mentioning, but he's more 112 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:06,580 of an entrepreneur and he was one of the persons that really got the snowball rolling on this 113 00:08:06,580 --> 00:08:08,960 whole new Nordic cuisine actually. 114 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:10,480 So we talked about Noma. 115 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:17,560 I think it's worth to make like a special mention on what did Noma that was so great, 116 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,560 how did it became the best restaurant and the most influential in the world. 117 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:26,920 I remember the first time I heard about Noma, I was working at Mugaritz back in 2005. 118 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,480 I heard about this place and one of the first things they said, it was that they weren't 119 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:35,320 using olive oil and chocolate because it was not a local produce. 120 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:40,120 And for me, this was so counter-intuitive for a restaurant in Europe, you know, no chocolate 121 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:41,680 and not olive oil. 122 00:08:41,680 --> 00:08:46,160 So this really opened my mind to see what are these guys doing in Denmark? 123 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,240 Well, you've been there eating a couple of times, right? 124 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,240 You actually worked there. 125 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,520 Yes, I did as well. 126 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,360 So yeah, I kind of, yeah, I understand what you're saying. 127 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:03,840 Of course, the whole fact of just looking for the most local ingredients, which is a 128 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:11,800 little bit actually in the case of Noma, Noma, yeah, they talk about ingredients from the 129 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:19,040 Nordic region, of course, but if we look at a map, the Nordic region is huge because also 130 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:26,000 the sourcing at Noma was anything from Denmark, of course, which I would say is quite local, 131 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,320 but all the way to Iceland, to Greenland. 132 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:38,240 So geographically, Noma was sourcing from a huge area. 133 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:47,400 But more, I mean, more than just geographically, we're talking about an area that has a climate 134 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,600 that's very similar. 135 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:54,560 So it's more about the kind of products that you can find in these countries, the kind 136 00:09:54,560 --> 00:10:02,040 of climates, the kind of preservation techniques, cooking techniques, the flavors that bringing 137 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:09,420 those ingredients and those cooking techniques together, the kind of flavor that it creates. 138 00:10:09,420 --> 00:10:15,640 So that's why even though, I mean, we're talking about kind of locally sourced, but the Nordic 139 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:16,880 region is huge. 140 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:25,040 So it's a little bit kind of counterintuitive talking about local ingredients and then sourcing 141 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,320 from the whole Nordic area. 142 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:38,600 But it's, I would say what Noma did differently was just being very, very, very decided on 143 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:46,040 using only ingredients from that area and finding a way because it would be so easy 144 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:51,280 to just like fall back on the ingredients that you know would work imported from other 145 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:52,280 places. 146 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:58,560 But being just so firm in the philosophy, I think that's one of the main reasons Noma 147 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:00,080 became what it became. 148 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:05,440 Yeah, I can't think of anyone who did that before because for instance, it comes Santi 149 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,680 Santamaria to mind at Trancotecan Palace in Catalonia. 150 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:17,080 He was doing like a very comparable thing in his restaurant, but he would source ingredients 151 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:18,760 from all over Europe. 152 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,080 And I know that because I worked there. 153 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:27,240 But I mean, he was also like sourcing local products that weren't being used anymore. 154 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:32,640 So and also another thing from Noma, I think they redefined the concept of what an ingredient 155 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:39,040 is, like using whey or different types of grasses or things that you wouldn't normally 156 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:40,040 cook with. 157 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:41,040 Exactly. 158 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:48,240 Yeah, ingredients that maybe up until that point were considered either just plants, 159 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:53,800 just plants, like something you see in the forest or in the park, or things that you 160 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:59,640 would consider animal feed, maybe like hay or something like that. 161 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,120 And then they made it actually into an ingredient, you know? 162 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:06,440 Yeah, or things that nobody would dare serving in a restaurant like, I don't know, bear heart 163 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,040 or things like that. 164 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:09,040 Exactly, exactly. 165 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:18,120 Yeah, but the sense of redefining what an ingredient is, Nordic food labs come to mind. 166 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:25,600 I remember one of the researchers from Nordic food lab saying once, everything is an ingredient. 167 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,320 Whatever you see in the forest, you could transform it some way into something edible. 168 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:30,320 Yeah, no, absolutely. 169 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:32,440 I totally agree. 170 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:39,640 As long as an ingredient isn't toxic for a human being, it has all the potential in the 171 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,800 world to be an ingredient in a dish, definitely. 172 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:48,000 You have been Swedish and having eaten in so many of these places also worked. 173 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,240 What would you say are memorable dishes that are really representative of the Nordic cuisine 174 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:53,240 movement? 175 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:54,240 Well, let's see. 176 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,240 Memorable dishes, yeah, there are of course. 177 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:01,080 No, what are those? 178 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,800 Memorable dishes, yeah, there are probably too many to list them all. 179 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:13,320 But what comes up now like that, I would say Nomaz pickled vegetable dish with bone marrow 180 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:22,320 and pork jus is one of those dishes that really struck me as well as a unique dish in a way 181 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,900 that because it changes every day. 182 00:13:24,900 --> 00:13:32,240 So it's a dish that has a base of pickled vegetables, six different pickled vegetables, 183 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,520 smoked bone marrow and pork jus. 184 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:41,360 But half of the dish was this actually like the garnishes, the flavors coming from foraged 185 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,520 herbs, from flowers. 186 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:50,560 That part of the dish changed every day based on the season, based on what flowers were 187 00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:54,660 blooming that day or what fresh little herbs could we get that day. 188 00:13:54,660 --> 00:13:59,920 So that was definitely, I would say, a signature dish of Noma. 189 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:07,200 But then also moving on to dishes where Noma started incorporating ants into the dishes, 190 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:13,980 which is probably also like a kind of groundbreaking moment in the new Nordic cuisine serving, 191 00:14:13,980 --> 00:14:20,120 for example, ants on a tartare, on a beef tartare, something that had never really been 192 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:26,280 seen before in the region, actually. 193 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,840 And Maemo as well, very well-known restaurant in Oslo. 194 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:37,600 Langerstein cooked with spruce is one of their really super famous dishes, I would say. 195 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:44,640 Or fettik in the northern part of Sweden, which they did because they're closed by now. 196 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,320 A scallop cooked over juniper branches. 197 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,320 So there are a few dishes that I could think of right now. 198 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:58,760 I can think, if I think about new Nordic cuisine, I would also think of subcategories like the 199 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,920 more sea-oriented, more forest-oriented, grill-oriented. 200 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:09,560 And this brings me to this time and place, which is also like a big statement inside 201 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,520 the new Nordic. 202 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,240 What would you say time and place is in this context? 203 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:20,720 So time and place is basically one of the first concepts that Noma came up with when 204 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:27,720 they started the restaurant and when they really focused on the local cuisine and the 205 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,680 traditions from the Nordic country. 206 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:39,120 So time and place was basically a wish for, that they wanted the client, they wanted the 207 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:44,640 people that sat down at the table to be able to, just by them eating there, just by looking 208 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:52,240 around, just by the atmosphere, understanding what time of the year it was and in which 209 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,720 place of the world they were actually seated in the restaurant. 210 00:15:55,720 --> 00:16:02,240 So they wanted the menu to be that unique over the course of the year, right? 211 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:07,000 During the different seasons that you would actually be able to notice through the dishes 212 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:16,760 that now it's summer or now it's autumn, now there's a lot of game meat and mushrooms on 213 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:17,760 the plate. 214 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:18,960 So of course it's autumn. 215 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:23,480 So that was kind of the original thought with the concept of time and place. 216 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:32,040 Could you think of any chef that are perhaps less recognized, that deserve more recognition, 217 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:37,240 that are really representative of the New Nordic Cuisine movement that you would recommend? 218 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:44,080 You actually mentioned before the grilling as a technique, right? 219 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:45,080 As a concept. 220 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:50,320 And there's an interesting chef that has a restaurant in Stockholm that is totally focused 221 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,520 on everything that has to do with wood-fired cooking. 222 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,560 So this is Niklas Ekstedt of restaurant Ekstedt in Stockholm. 223 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:03,720 And his restaurant, he doesn't have any electrical devices in his kitchen. 224 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,920 It's totally wood-fired. 225 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:14,200 So all the techniques are like grilling or slow grilling or smoking or drying with smoke 226 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:15,640 and so on. 227 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,400 And I think it's really interesting. 228 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:24,520 He's done a lot of interesting work for kind of revitalizing ancient cooking methods like 229 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:25,520 that. 230 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:30,440 Do you actually know the head chef of Ekstedt because I worked with her at Campalas. 231 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:31,440 She's an Argentinian. 232 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:32,440 Oh yeah, that's true. 233 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:33,440 That's true. 234 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:34,440 Yeah, Florencia. 235 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,520 She's a super badass chef. 236 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:38,520 What else? 237 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,220 I would probably name drop a few more. 238 00:17:41,220 --> 00:17:45,200 Maybe Sasu Larkanon in Helsinki as well. 239 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:51,940 There's a lady called Heidi Björkan in Trondheim in Norway who has a restaurant called Credo. 240 00:17:51,940 --> 00:17:59,000 So extremely very nice local cuisine, does a lot of sustainability work as well. 241 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:04,160 So she's definitely interesting to check out in the southern part of Sweden. 242 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:10,480 I would say Daniel Berlin, also a name that might not be as well known as the other ones, 243 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,880 but definitely interesting to check out. 244 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,640 And abroad, is there anyone doing Nordic cuisine? 245 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:20,560 I know that Charles Mayer opened a restaurant in New York and also that Aquavit that is 246 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:25,120 a super old Swedish restaurant in New York that used to be run by Marcus Samuelsson, 247 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:29,240 now pivoted into like a new Nordic thing. 248 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,560 Can you come up with any other examples? 249 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,680 Yeah, it's true. 250 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:39,600 Aquavit was the Swedish, like really kind of traditional restaurant in New York, even 251 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,640 back in the 90s. 252 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:50,080 And they've also pivoted to a more modern, more contemporary Nordic cuisine. 253 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:57,680 Another one in New York is Aska, which is definitely more towards a new Nordic style 254 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,720 of cuisine. 255 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,280 I think those would be the examples right now. 256 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:04,500 What do you think about that? 257 00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:11,720 Does it lose the whole concept of ultra local cuisine doing it in New York or abroad? 258 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,280 Or what is your opinion on that? 259 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:20,760 Actually, I mean, traveling around the world as well, and now during the last years, of 260 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:26,440 course, after this big influence of the New Nordic cuisine, I've seen a lot of chefs and 261 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:35,080 restaurants around the world copying sometimes even straight off dishes from the New Nordic 262 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:36,080 cuisine. 263 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:38,560 And I think that's the wrong approach of doing it. 264 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:45,240 Of course, they can still be very good, amazing dishes, but it's not linked to your territory. 265 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:51,920 If you're in Latin America or you're in Asia or any other place, it's not really you only 266 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,020 get half the experience. 267 00:19:54,020 --> 00:19:59,280 So I think much more than copying a dish straight off. 268 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:04,760 What we could do and what we should do is be inspired by the concept and what we've 269 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:10,720 been talking about the basis of the New Nordic cuisine, right? 270 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,600 Going back to the ingredient stage, looking at the ingredient, exploring, analyzing the 271 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:18,880 ingredient and take it from there and do that on a local level. 272 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,460 So go with your own ingredients. 273 00:20:21,460 --> 00:20:26,520 Then you can apply as many techniques from the New Nordic cuisine as you wish or just 274 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,280 think about the concept, right? 275 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,280 But use it on your own ingredients. 276 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:36,120 I think that's so much more interesting than just copying a dish straight off. 277 00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:37,120 Okay. 278 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:41,960 My last question is, first of all, is the New Nordic cuisine still alive? 279 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:51,120 And since the Kingdom of Ferran Adria in the mid 2000s until now, I think it has made the 280 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:54,240 dominating trend in the high end. 281 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,800 Is there still a new trend? 282 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,040 What can you tell us about that? 283 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,720 I would say it's very much still alive. 284 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:08,520 What I see that kind of the transition have been lately is that what might have started 285 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:15,200 off as a high end, a little bit exclusive cuisine during the first years of the New 286 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:23,000 Nordic cuisine has kind of trickled down to a very, very normal restaurant, like your 287 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,060 neighborhood restaurant level. 288 00:21:25,060 --> 00:21:29,840 So actually I would say in the Nordic countries, it has inspired a lot of chefs that are not 289 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:37,440 doing both cuisine or high end exclusive cuisine, but actually chefs in restaurants where anyone 290 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,920 of us could go any day. 291 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:47,200 And I think that's probably the most positive effect that I've seen for me personally. 292 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:53,880 And also it has brought a lot of awareness in general to the general public of what are 293 00:21:53,880 --> 00:22:01,760 traditions, what our traditions are, what our ingredients look like, what our territory 294 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,720 like looks like, what foraging is. 295 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:12,460 There are so many aspects that really, I would say it has brought an awareness to normal 296 00:22:12,460 --> 00:22:18,200 people that are not working or are not active in gastronomy. 297 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,580 I would say that's probably the most, the biggest effect it has had. 298 00:22:22,580 --> 00:22:25,160 But for me, it's very, very much still alive. 299 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:31,160 I mean, there's so many combinations, there's so many ingredients that you can still explore, 300 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,360 you can use with any combination of techniques. 301 00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:36,320 So it's kind of never ending. 302 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:45,240 You just have to keep going and let there be an evolution to the New Nordic cuisine 303 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:50,240 as well. 304 00:22:50,240 --> 00:23:03,600 That's it for this week's episode of Potluck Food Talks.