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Hi everyone, welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks.

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Today we're going to talk about sushi.

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So what's your relationship with sushi, Phil?

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I mean, I feel like I say this about almost everything that we talk about, but sushi is

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one of my favorite things to eat ever.

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Yeah, you're quite promiscuous, I have to say, when it comes to food.

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Yeah, right.

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I'm super flaky.

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It's sort of like everything that we talk about.

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I always jump from one thing to the other.

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But yeah, no, I absolutely love sushi.

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I grew up, my grandparents had worked in Japan for a long time.

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So we grew up with a lot of sort of Japanese influence.

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We went to eat sushi and sukiyaki and all those sorts of things all the time.

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And so I grew up with it and then I also used to live in Japan, so I ate a lot of sushi

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there.

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So yeah, I love this stuff.

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For me, it's quite similar.

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Like I have a godfather that is Japanese.

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It's like a karate master from Okinawa.

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Oh, wow.

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And so my father was really close to him and they also had other Japanese friends.

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So there was always this Japanese friends around my parents at home.

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And when I grew up, there was only one Japanese restaurant in Caracas.

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I saw the whole sushi boom which started I think in the late 90s.

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Before that, there was for real just one Japanese restaurant in Caracas.

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And I remember going there and it was really amazing because it was like going to a different

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world.

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And there were like these aquariums with fishes and you had to sit on the ground.

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And there were like this super counter and twitty dishes like black bean fried ice cream.

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And it's like, what is this?

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You know, or green tea fried ice cream.

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Those were like the signature desserts there.

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And that was my first contact with sushi.

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It was something also like the concept of eating raw fish, which is like, you know,

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as a kid, you don't see that elsewhere in other dishes.

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It's not that common at least.

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Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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I mean, what do you, what would you say?

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Do you say you're more of a sushi purist or I think I know the answer to this question

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already, but.

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I mean, I think that there are, there is a room for creativity and also even to push

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boundaries, but there are also limits.

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I mean, there is fusion or these kinds of things and there is crap.

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You know, you don't want to confuse one thing with the other because I've seen like super

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horrible sushi for sure.

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Like things I couldn't eat.

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It's like, what the fuck is this?

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You know, I could spit it out, but I've also seen like, I don't know.

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For instance, this guy here, Sebas, Sebastian Pinchada, who for me makes the best sushi

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here in San Sebastian.

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He makes any, he's kind of a purist actually what he does.

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I mean, he has done pop-ups in Japan and he's well respected there as well.

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But for instance, there is this traditional, he's from Chile and there is this traditional

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Chilean dish, which is grated scallop with Parmesan cheese.

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So he kind of adopted that into a sushi roll using the asada cheese instead of Parmesan

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and it's fucking delicious, you know, but it's completely coherent.

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And there's like a whole, his personal story behind it.

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And I think that's perfectly valid.

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But on the other side, I've seen, for instance, sorry, but no, no quinoa and your rice.

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Sorry, no discussion about it.

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I mean, maybe you could do it and if you do it well, then you're a genius, but I've seen

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nobody doing anything acceptable in that domain, you know?

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Yeah, totally.

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I would agree.

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I mean, Sebas sushi is amazing.

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The scallops are super tasty, you know?

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And yeah, like, I mean, I used to be super puristic about it, you know, kind of like,

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you know, when you, when you would see somebody who was not Japanese making sushi, it kind

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of be like, Oh, can this be good?

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You know?

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And especially when I came back from Japan, I was really, I didn't eat sushi for, I think,

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two years.

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Ah, because everything was trash compared to it.

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Yeah, but, but not even that just because like, I didn't, I was like, I ate so much

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sushi when I was in Japan and I like, I really liked it.

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It's not like I had too much, but when I came back, I was like, it's not like there are

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no good sushi places, but I just couldn't, you know, I couldn't go anywhere.

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And it lasted like a really long time.

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And then after that, I kind of, you know, got into the whole like Nikkei culture, you

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know, for people who don't know, it's like, Japanese influence that came to Peru and like

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its own cuisine got created by, you know, second and third generation immigrants.

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And it's got a lot of Latin influences.

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And I mean, that's great.

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You know, that's so nice.

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It's not traditional at all.

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Like in the Japanese sense, it uses, you know, the use of avocado and chilies and, you know,

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lime juice and all that sort of stuff.

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Although Sudachi is a type of Japanese line that's also used in traditional sushi.

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But yeah, it's just really fun.

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I was also going to mention that, that, well, that there was, I think it was probably instrumental

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for the popularization of sushi in the nineties.

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It was the starting of chain restaurants in the States.

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So they started to expand worldwide and there were some international chefs that also helped

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to make it popular worldwide.

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And one of these chefs, you can like him or not like him, what he does, but that's a fact.

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Like he really popularized this food culture was no Matsuisa.

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And he worked for a long while in Peru.

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So he also popularized many of this Nikkei components, making it part of this, I would

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call it international sushi, which is sushi that you see in different countries, but not

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in Japan, you know, and something that evolved out of Japan.

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Yeah, yeah, totally.

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This whole sort of like California role.

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Exactly.

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You know, avocado, cream cheese, all that sort of stuff that doesn't exist in Japan,

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you know, it's, but yeah, I think, like, I think it's totally fair to say that it's its

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own style, you know, and like, it's, it's two completely different things.

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And these things have their own place, I think, you know, they have the space and, and you

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can make like a really super over the top California role.

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Why not?

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You know?

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Yeah, totally.

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And sometimes like, have you made sushi?

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Like, do you sometimes make it at home?

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Like, yeah, that's something I, my first cooking class I had in my life was a sushi course

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when I was like 13 years old.

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Oh, cool.

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Yeah.

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It was really interesting because also there was only one Japanese supermarket in Caracas

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and this was like such a magic place.

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I remember it was fucking expensive, but you would go there and find the seaweed, the wasabi,

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all the different ingredients to make it at home.

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And yeah, I remember like making lots of like sushi dinner parties, which was also, it's

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also like a fun activity to do because everybody participates, you know, if you do it in that

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mood and way, you know, like if you want to be like the sushi master chef and cook for

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everyone, that's something different, of course.

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Yeah, for sure.

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I only had to kind of like, I was, even though I was working in Japan, I was nowhere near

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sushi, you know, it was more like kaiseki and all the chefs there, you know, they, they

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often, they took like one or two years to just do sushi, you know, and then you don't

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do anything else.

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You only do sushi.

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And I've only once before been in a situation where I had to work in a kitchen that also

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does sushi, which is an in a K style restaurant.

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And I realized making sushi is really fucking hard.

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It's really difficult.

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It's like, it's really simple in itself, but like making, you can make a roll of rice and

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seaweed and fish and make it look like sushi, but to make it so that it's really, really

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good is really fucking hard.

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No, I agree.

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I agree.

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Like all the, the fish cutting is a super sophisticated technique.

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Getting the rice right has so many indicators of what is right.

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Like the cooking point, the flavor, like the, the, whatever, the acidity, the umami, like

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everything that you want to add to the rice is super, super key to get it right.

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And also, uh, something like my, that there were like this Japanese cookbooks at home,

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like this, you know, old books from my dad that were there taking Dustin and a library.

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And there were two, I remember one was Japanese cooking, a simple art by Shizuku Atsuji.

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That's a really good book.

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Yeah.

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This had like super nice illustrations.

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I mean, and I think this was one of the first books for a Western audience that went deep

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into Japanese cooking.

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I heard later that the son of this guy opens like a kind of a Macasset place in New York

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paired with a, I don't remember the name, like a super famous New York chef.

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They did it together.

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And then I had another book, which was a sushi book.

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And I don't remember the name of the author, but this was like a woman, a lady sushi master.

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I saw her once in the Japanese iron chefs.

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She was like one of the judges and I was like, ah, that's the author of the book I have

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at home.

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So I took the book more seriously after that.

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And I saw like that, like for the, what's the name of the, the mix, mixture of ingredients

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you add to the rice after you cook it.

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Oh, I don't, I don't know what you call it, but it's just like rice nigga and sugar and

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like sometimes some kombu seaweed and stuff.

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Yeah.

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Exactly.

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And we could call it a dressing.

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Well, so I saw that you can't call it a dressing.

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Anyways, I was thinking that this is like a super key part.

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So just to break it apart, you to make sushi, you first, you cook rice and, and while it's

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still warm, you add this mixture to it and correct me if I'm wrong and you mix the whole

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thing.

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Usually you have like a, what do you call this?

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This

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A fan.

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A fan.

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A fan.

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A fan to take the steam out and then you, so you do it well while it's still warm.

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So the rice soaks this whole and it's usually rice vinegar with rice wine called mirin,

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exactly sugar.

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And you mentioned kombu sometimes.

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Sometimes.

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So like this thing, this is not something like you add just a splash of this or a splash

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of that.

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You have like a very specific amounts and this amounts can vary from one type of fish

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to the other.

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Or if you're really just making like the combination of ingredients, you have to adapt it to it.

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And so in this book had like, I don't know, 12 variations of this dressing, so to say,

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depending on the fish.

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And for me, this was super interesting.

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Oh, that's crazy.

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I've never heard that before.

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Actually.

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That's really cool.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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The rice is so extremely difficult.

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I mean, if you ever try to make it at home, you know, because it's like it's short grain

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rice, you know, Japanese short grain rice, which gets very mushy and very sticky.

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And so if you undercook it, it's obviously undercooked.

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If you overcook it, it becomes like a fucking puree.

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And then, you know, if you, if you don't have the exact like perfect amount of water, it's

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like the texture is really weird.

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And then you add more liquid to the rice.

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Like you said, you know, the seasoning, the seasoning is what you call it.

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Seasoning.

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Yeah.

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Sorry.

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Sorry, Master A.G. for calling it dressing.

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And then you kind of mix it, but you don't want to mix it.

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Like you kind of want to cut it with a spatula so that you don't squish the rice.

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And then you want to have the rice temperature being at sort of body temperature.

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It's like when you serve it, you know, it's so extremely intricate.

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It's really sort of like searching for perfection in a very simple thing.

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So if we go to the most purest basic structure of sushi, we could say it's rice and fish.

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Yeah.

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Like everything else is a variation from that, but that's like the core, right?

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I mean, yeah.

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The original sushi, I think, is where we have to start with.

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Like where sushi comes from is it's a type of like preservation fish, you know, the vinegar

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kind of half cures the fish and makes it more, well, prolongs its shelf life.

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Right.

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And so one of the very sort of first versions of sushi was kind of like lightly cured fish

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and soured, like wrapped in soured rice and then pressed in a sort of wooden press so

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that you'd have a block and that you could carry around with you and then eat it at a

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later point.

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And that then kind of like became, you know, like what was, you know, changed more and

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more and more and people started having it at little stalls and then, you know, more

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varieties were made and stuff.

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But yeah, you can still find like in a lot of restaurants, well, not in a lot of, in

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a few restaurants, especially in places that specialize in these sorts of things, a type

234
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:19,600
of this sort of sushi, usually with mackerel, like saba, it's called saba sushi or sometimes

235
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:24,840
the saba suki sushi, you know, where yeah, do you have a piece of mackerel and then it's

236
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:30,240
lightly cured in salt and vinegar and then put on rice and then pressed.

237
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:31,920
So it's kind of square and then sliced.

238
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:33,520
It's usually like surface, big slice.

239
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:34,520
Very delicious.

240
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:35,520
Nice.

241
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:41,160
So then this roll version of the sushi, having a seaweed, putting rice on top and making

242
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:47,880
these rolls and slicing them into this disc shaped, these rolls we know as sushi, is this

243
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,320
from California?

244
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:54,440
The rolling or this is Japanese or, or because I'm not sure about that.

245
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:59,800
I heard once that that way of rolling is something that started in California, but I might be

246
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:01,760
wrong or I got wrong information.

247
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:03,120
I'm not sure about that.

248
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:04,120
I don't think so.

249
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,520
I mean, as far as I know, it's very Japanese, you know, the makis.

250
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:13,560
I mean, yeah, also in a pure form, you know, the nori seaweed sheets and then the rice

251
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:17,040
and the fish and you know, often wasabi.

252
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:21,360
It also makes sense, you know, because like you can, it makes it kind of hold together.

253
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,280
You can carry it, you know, it's as far as I know, that's very Japanese.

254
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,840
But you know, like this whole sushi culture, you know, it's just like, like we were saying,

255
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:34,760
it's not from like millions of like hundreds of years ago, you know, it's like relatively

256
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:35,760
recent.

257
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,520
We think that it's sort of like, you know, super, super ancient, but, but not really,

258
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,040
you know, it's a fairly modern thing.

259
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:42,040
Yeah.

260
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,600
Just a few, the most like 200 years, something like that.

261
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:45,600
Right?

262
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:46,600
Yeah.

263
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,640
So we have seaweed, rice, the fish, which is a whole world itself.

264
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,240
Well, we have the fish episode for that.

265
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:59,760
And then the other ingredients, like I really like adding like some kind of, ah, what's

266
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:01,720
the name of this omelet?

267
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:02,720
Tamago.

268
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:03,720
Tamago yaki.

269
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:04,720
Yeah.

270
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,400
I really like a tamago in my sushi, like an omelet.

271
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,880
The tamago usually has some dashi in it, right?

272
00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:12,880
Yeah, exactly.

273
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,600
It's usually seasoned with dashi and...

274
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:17,800
Can you explain dashi briefly?

275
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,640
Dashi is the base stock in Japanese cooking.

276
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:27,080
And it's made from katsu-bushi, which are bonito fillets that are smoked and lightly

277
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,120
fermented and dried until they look like a piece of wood.

278
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,680
It's shaved into paper thin shavings.

279
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:33,680
That is one ingredient.

280
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:35,740
And the other is kombu seaweed.

281
00:15:35,740 --> 00:15:37,020
And that's basically it.

282
00:15:37,020 --> 00:15:41,520
Then you have, um, niboshi sometimes, which are kind of like small anchovies and you have

283
00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,520
other things that you can add, you know, but I think the base dashi is just kombu seaweed.

284
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,560
And katsu-bushi, which is the shaved bonito.

285
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,200
How would you describe it flavor wise?

286
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:57,680
It's like, uh, I would say that the main aroma for me is smoke.

287
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:02,520
And after that, like this smoked fish, but, but it's not that fishy.

288
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:08,040
It could almost be like a meat, like a strange meat, something like that.

289
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,480
It's like a really particular aroma and flavor.

290
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:12,520
It's really hard to describe.

291
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:17,160
I think like, I mean, it's, it has like smoky aspects, but I think it's so subtle that like,

292
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,800
if you wouldn't know that the thing is smoked, you would never guess it.

293
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:24,240
You know, it's very deep and very umami.

294
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:25,800
It's like, it's super clear.

295
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,840
You know, if it's well-made, it should be super, super clear and just have this really

296
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:31,880
intense depth of umami.

297
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:33,800
And it's pretty much its own thing.

298
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:34,800
Yeah.

299
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:39,640
So like, like an omelet with that stock, which is called dashi tamaggi.

300
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:40,640
Yeah.

301
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:41,640
Often sweetened also.

302
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:42,640
Yeah.

303
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:43,640
Yeah.

304
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,880
Like I like that with my sushi or even a, like a nigiri just with that.

305
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:49,720
I think that's really nice.

306
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:50,720
It's amazing.

307
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:51,720
It's so nice.

308
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,280
It's like, it's also hard to describe, you know, for us Westerners, like thinking of

309
00:16:55,280 --> 00:17:00,040
a sweet omelet is kind of strange, but when you try it.

310
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,600
With smoked bonito broth.

311
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:03,600
Yeah.

312
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:04,600
Yeah.

313
00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:09,240
And it's made in a very interesting way also, where you usually have these square pans that

314
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:13,560
you, you know, you, you oil them and then you pour a layer into it.

315
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,880
You kind of scramble it a little bit and you let that cook.

316
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,440
And then you roll it up to the front until you have a little sort of thing.

317
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,920
And then you pour in another layer, a thin layer of egg.

318
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,720
You kind of let that cook again.

319
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,240
And then you flip this little roll that you made onto the new layer.

320
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:30,960
You kind of roll that up again.

321
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:32,960
And then again, you grease it a little bit.

322
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,860
You move to the bottom and you repeat.

323
00:17:34,860 --> 00:17:39,800
So you're adding layer over layer over layer over layer until you have this like thick

324
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,320
roll of juicy cooked egg layers.

325
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:44,320
Super nice.

326
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:45,320
It's super nice.

327
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:46,320
It's very difficult to make.

328
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,160
And it's a very interesting technique because it creates a really, really unique texture.

329
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,120
If you make it right, the egg doesn't overcook and it's, yes, it's very Japanese.

330
00:17:54,120 --> 00:17:55,120
Very nice.

331
00:17:55,120 --> 00:18:00,640
The drunk version, you use instant hondashi as a powder on top of your omelet.

332
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:05,640
And you eat that very, very drunk at 3 a.m. in a sandwich with prawns.

333
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:07,240
Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

334
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:08,240
Sorry.

335
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:09,960
You just thought of this now.

336
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,160
This is not something that happened to you or something, right?

337
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:14,560
Hondashi is the secret ingredient, man.

338
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:21,920
You know, I went a bit experimental with hondashi and my goal as a professional chef is to be

339
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:26,440
sponsored by Ajinomoto or Hondashi one day.

340
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:27,720
Those guys are amazing.

341
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:33,040
Like Ajinomoto, they synthesized umami basically.

342
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:34,040
That's what they did.

343
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,720
And this is actually like a key ingredient in Peruvian cuisine.

344
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,240
You will see that in every Peruvian kitchen.

345
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:42,240
Yeah.

346
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,680
Some people are ashamed of it.

347
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,800
Other are very proud, but you will see it in every kitchen.

348
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:53,840
I was very, I had this moment of being sort of like half ashamed, half proud when I, at

349
00:18:53,840 --> 00:19:00,960
my last job, I took a really nice Wagyu steak and I took some hondashi and I crushed it

350
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,560
in the thermomix until it was a fine powder.

351
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,240
And then I covered the steak in hondashi and grilled it.

352
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,240
Oh, that's so nasty, man.

353
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:13,040
And then sliced it and served it and everybody was like, oh my God, the steak tastes amazing.

354
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,600
What did you do with it?

355
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,480
Japanese stock cubes, basically.

356
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:19,480
That's what it is.

357
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:20,480
Yeah, exactly.

358
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,520
So what about fish salmon?

359
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:23,840
Do you want to talk about that?

360
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:24,840
Fish come?

361
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:25,840
Have you tried it?

362
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:26,840
Do you want to talk about that?

363
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,840
I mean, I mean, yeah, sure.

364
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,960
Why not?

365
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,040
We talked to you about eggs.

366
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,720
It's very common to eat fish raw.

367
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,960
This is kind of like the counterpart, right?

368
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:38,960
Yeah.

369
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:39,960
So what's the problem?

370
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:40,960
Yeah.

371
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,880
I mean, it's again for like a Western audience, it's very weird.

372
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,440
Shirako, it's called, it's a sperm sac of a certain type of fish.

373
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:57,400
I'm not exactly sure which fish it was that it comes from, but it's, yeah, it's the milt,

374
00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:59,360
you know, or the sperm sac.

375
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:03,160
I think it's like cod and sometimes salmon also.

376
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:09,080
They're defined like angler fish and it's, yeah, it's basically just the sac of, you

377
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:10,840
know, fish sperm.

378
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:15,040
And it's usually, it gets poached quickly and then sometimes also grilled.

379
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,000
Similar as fish roe, like the similar process.

380
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,240
Yeah, exactly.

381
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:28,120
And it gets this like very, very slushy texture, you know, it's an interesting ingredient.

382
00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:34,400
So can you tell us about omakase and omakase restaurants?

383
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,000
Did you visit any, I guess you did in Japan?

384
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,800
Yeah, of course.

385
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:46,480
I mean, the whole like omakase experience, you know, is really sort of the quintessential

386
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,600
way of eating, you know, this type of food.

387
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:56,600
It's basically a sort of like experience that a chef curates for you and you just kind of

388
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,080
abandon yourself into his hands.

389
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:03,320
You know, he chooses a kind of seasonal offering, you know, it makes total sense, especially

390
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:08,600
for something like sushi, because sushi is also a very, very seasonal thing.

391
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:13,480
And so omakase is basically, you know, a journey that the chef takes you through, you know,

392
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,300
kind of like a menu, the seasonal menu.

393
00:21:16,300 --> 00:21:21,200
You abandon yourself into his hands and he chooses what you get to eat.

394
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:27,240
So that's important because he's got free, he or she has got free reign, choosing seasonal

395
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:31,120
ingredients, you know, and they're not bound by like a written menu.

396
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:34,640
They can just freely change, you know, from week or from day to day.

397
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,960
Also, you know, what the offering is.

398
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,360
Also important because they choose the sequence in which you eat things.

399
00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:46,040
Especially important, you know, if you go to a sushi restaurant and you order ala katsu,

400
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:51,280
you know, and you start with the otoro or the unagi or the anago, you know, those are

401
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,680
all very fatty items.

402
00:21:54,680 --> 00:22:00,120
If then afterwards you go to, you want to eat some, you know, sakura ebi, you know,

403
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:05,680
some prawns or some Ika, you know, cattle fish, things that are a lot more subtle, then

404
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,160
you've kind, it's kind of counterproductive, you know, because you're not going to be able

405
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,740
to enjoy them as much as you would have, you know.

406
00:22:12,740 --> 00:22:17,760
So usually it's the best idea to just kind of abandon yourself into what is recommended,

407
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:18,760
you know.

408
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:25,440
So omakase is basically, I would say, a restaurant that only serves sushi or is it more like

409
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:33,920
a cuisine style or because if you ask me what omakase is, what I think of is only sushi

410
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,560
and actually only bar.

411
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,240
Is it always only, there are usually a few tables, but it's mainly like you eat at the

412
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,840
bar in front of the sushi chef.

413
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:43,840
Is it like that?

414
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,560
I mean, yes, but it doesn't necessarily only have to be sushi, you know, and omakase is

415
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:52,440
basically just sort of like the menu, like chef's choice, you know, the menu, you know,

416
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:58,080
the kind of like the offering, you know, and you take the omakase and you just like eat

417
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,120
through this menu.

418
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:01,120
Yeah.

419
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:08,720
Well, my, you know, my cousin, my cousin Walter Sidoravisius, he's making an amazing omakase

420
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,000
in Ibiza.

421
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,040
It's called omakase by Walter.

422
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,040
Yeah.

423
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:17,040
And, and it's a super cool business model, you know, because he found like a super small

424
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:21,640
venue and, and it's only by, by pre-booking.

425
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:26,680
It's like this kind of clandestine restaurants that probably works without a restaurant license

426
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:32,360
but with that cooking course license or something else, because it's only with pre-sale tickets.

427
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:34,480
So it's a different kind of service, I guess.

428
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:40,800
And I know also Marcos Granda, he's like, this guy has like three or four restaurants

429
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:49,520
and I don't know if all of them are at least one Michelin star, have one Michelin star.

430
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:56,680
And one of the, the last he opened is Pure Omakase and Pure is omakase, no Spanish, Fusion

431
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:57,920
or anything.

432
00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:58,920
And he's doing that.

433
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,880
And there is also this place called Kiro Sushi.

434
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:08,360
This guy is doing in Logroño also like a sushi bar, serving all this sushi in the middle

435
00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:14,120
of La Rioja, you know, which is, and of course this guy, Kai, the last time you came here,

436
00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:20,560
he was making a pop-up cooking in a small corner of a bar, but now he has his own place,

437
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:21,560
Sebas.

438
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,520
He has his own place and you can eat in front of the bar.

439
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:30,040
There are like a few extra tables, but the main thing, you know, is sitting at the bar

440
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:35,440
and getting the nigiri served directly by the chef, you know.

441
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,760
That's yeah, I mean, that's really the real experience, no?

442
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:44,320
And that's also, it's, there's also a reason, you know, sushi is one of the things that

443
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:51,760
it has momentum, you know, it's like, it's made by hand and as soon as it kind of like,

444
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,320
it's put on the plate, the momentum is going down, you know, it's not getting any better

445
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:57,400
sitting there.

446
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:02,080
The rice kind of starts relaxing too much, you know, the temperature changes, everything

447
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,120
is just not ideal anymore.

448
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:09,400
So it is one of those things like, you find this example a lot in Japanese cooking, in

449
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,520
Japanese restaurants, like with Yakitori also, where you sit at a counter and somebody's

450
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,840
grilling and as soon as the skewers perfect, it gets put in front of you and you eat it

451
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:18,840
straight away.

452
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,760
And it's the same in sushi.

453
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:27,120
He makes it and puts it in front of you and you should eat it straight away and not have,

454
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:29,720
you know, five, six, 10 pieces in front of you.

455
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:35,860
You have one and you eat it and you know, it has, it has a lot more depth in that way.

456
00:25:35,860 --> 00:25:40,120
And so that's why, you know, this is, this is also, you know, a big reason for doing

457
00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:42,680
this omakase thing.

458
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,920
And also because you have to direct relation with the chef.

459
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:52,160
I, for example, I had an amazing experience when I was in Tokyo and I ate at Sushi Yasuda,

460
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:57,080
which is run by Naomichi Yasuda, who used to be, I think in New York, he used to be

461
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,080
in the States.

462
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:03,640
And then at some point he moved back to Tokyo and he has got a really beautiful sushi bar

463
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,160
that he runs with his wife.

464
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:12,040
And when I went there, he kind of, he speaks really good English and he starts talking

465
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,880
to you, he's super friendly.

466
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,400
And he was kind of like, well, what kind of sushi like do you like the most?

467
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,560
And I was like, well, I'm a big fan of Saba sushi, you know, the like lightly cured mackerel

468
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:22,560
sushi.

469
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:23,560
Oh, I love that shit.

470
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:24,560
Yeah.

471
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:25,560
It's super tasty.

472
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,600
And he was like, okay, I'm going to make some for you.

473
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,280
He made some Saba, some Saba sushi and it was delicious.

474
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:37,400
And then he made a couple of like, he made a sequence of nigiri using different type

475
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:42,440
of mackerel and anchovy like fish that I had never heard before.

476
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,840
Like you had these like sardines and stuff like that, that were all in a similar style.

477
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,440
And it was super interesting to me, you know, and you know, you only get that because you

478
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:57,120
have this like direct connection with the guy in front of you.

479
00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:01,320
And that's really one of the most beautiful aspects, I think of this kind of omakaza style

480
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:02,320
eating.

481
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,320
Yeah.

482
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,760
I mean, I've, I've hadn't had that at that level, but sometimes I've, I've eaten at the

483
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:12,480
bar many times in front of Sebas and many times he cooked something special, something

484
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:13,680
out of the menu.

485
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,920
And I guess that's kind of the, the, the same feeling.

486
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:17,920
Yeah.

487
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,960
By the way, I was thinking we need to make like a second part of this sushi episode with

488
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,240
Walter.

489
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:24,360
You met Walter, right?

490
00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:25,760
When you were in Japan.

491
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,560
Yeah, absolutely.

492
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,920
Walter came to eat when I was working at, at Ryogen.

493
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,040
It was, it was, it was really nice having him.

494
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,040
Nice.

495
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,280
He came by himself and it made everybody really nervous because he was so, we had, we have

496
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,840
the cameras in the kitchen overlooking every table in the restaurant.

497
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,080
And he, you could just see that he was really thinking about everything that he ate.

498
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:52,320
He was really kind of taking his time bit by bit, looking at the stuff and everybody

499
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,760
was kind of like, is he a tester?

500
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,160
Is he a reviewer?

501
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,160
Like what sorts of guys?

502
00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,160
Yeah.

503
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,920
He is super methodic and perfectionist and really good.

504
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,560
And while you were saying this thing about the momentum of sushi, I remember him telling

505
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:14,920
this stories about super, you know, like mystic sushi masters that they like the way they

506
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:21,000
throw the nigiri into the board that has a name and this shakes and this kind of like

507
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:28,080
super, you know, like perfectionist to detail Japanese thing that you will find in sushi.

508
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,200
And he knows like many, many stories about that.

509
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,200
Yeah.

510
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:37,040
There's a lot of mysticism involved with these sorts of, you know, with these sorts of styles

511
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,160
of cooking.

512
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:43,160
And I really liked that, you know, obviously like a lot of it is just kind of, you know,

513
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,440
people being a little bit crazy and a little bit too obsessed, but it's exactly this kind

514
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,420
of obsession, which, you know, makes it really, really special.

515
00:28:51,420 --> 00:28:57,000
And I mean, really the amount of attention that you can put into every single detail

516
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,680
of what you're making is infinite, you know?

517
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:04,280
And I think that's one of the things that makes sushi and the people behind that, you

518
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,580
know, makes it a little bit magical.

519
00:29:06,580 --> 00:29:11,000
Before we finish this first part, because we're going to have a second one, I would

520
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:16,200
like to share like things you shouldn't do with sushi.

521
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:21,600
Common things we Westerners do, like adding ketchup, no, sorry, sorry, sorry.

522
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:22,600
Nobody does that.

523
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:28,600
No, but I mean like mixing your wasabi with your soy sauce.

524
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:33,720
Like, well, usually, usually like, you do that?

525
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,920
I think that's, I'm not sure that that's a no-no.

526
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,600
I think that's kind of debatable.

527
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:44,080
I have to say, I like putting the wasabi on top of the fish, but I mean, I'm okay with

528
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,080
that.

529
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,080
That's fine.

530
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:47,080
But putting the ginger to that mixture.

531
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:48,080
That is a big no-no.

532
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,080
That is a huge no-no.

533
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,280
I mean, what is the ginger for?

534
00:29:53,280 --> 00:30:01,360
You know, like the ginger is there for cleansing your palate in between pieces of sushi.

535
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:06,160
I mean, especially different types of sushi, you know, it's not for you to make a little

536
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:12,360
soy wasabi ginger salad and then putting that on top of your beautifully formed maguro nigiri,

537
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,360
you know, that's not what it's for.

538
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:15,560
You ever saw this?

539
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:22,600
There was a comic book by Anthony Bourdain about a sushi chef who was seeking revenge

540
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,560
for something and somebody did this at his bar and the guy cuts his head off with his

541
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:28,920
sushi knife.

542
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,000
Yeah, I saw that.

543
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,000
I really liked that.

544
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,240
It's what's it called?

545
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,840
Gojiro or something like that.

546
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,320
Gojiro, yeah, exactly.

547
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:38,800
Yeah, that's really cool.

548
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,800
Yeah, the guy's like, yeah, man, and like make us some California rolls and he's like,

549
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,400
no California rolls for you.

550
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,240
I think that's the most common.

551
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:50,240
Yeah.

552
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,880
There's a lot of like do's that you can do with sushi that I think that people don't

553
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,240
expect like, for example, eating your sushi with your fingers.

554
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:58,240
Exactly.

555
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,160
Yeah, I always do that and that's perfectly fine.

556
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,760
That's not frowned upon in Japan at all.

557
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:10,120
And also, if you are at the right sushi place, the nigiri should be small enough that you

558
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:15,000
can put the whole thing at once in your mouth and not having like two bites or something

559
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,000
like that.

560
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,000
And I guess that's also relevant.

561
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,480
Oh yeah, I think that should always be the case.

562
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:24,400
I think you should always eat your nigiri and your maki unless it's like a futomaki,

563
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:25,400
like a huge one.

564
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:26,400
That's what I say.

565
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:32,840
If you're in a decent place, because I would say 90% of the sushi places in the West are

566
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:33,840
not decent.

567
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:34,840
Yeah.

568
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,040
And you will find, you know, like hockey disc sized sushi rolls, you know?

569
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,000
Yeah, because bigger is better, right?

570
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,280
That's the mentality.

571
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,320
Another thing is that, you know, there's so much attention.

572
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:49,160
We always, especially as Westerners, we think that the fish is the most important thing,

573
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,640
but we forget that actually the rice is more important than the fish.

574
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:59,440
And it's actually not correct to pick up the sushi and soak the rice in with soy sauce.

575
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:05,160
What you really should be doing is flip it and put the fish side a little bit in soy

576
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,880
sauce, a little bit, not dropping it in the dish and letting it swim there a little bit

577
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:10,880
and then picking it up.

578
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:16,120
Yeah, you should just like gently flip it, just dip one end in a little bit and then

579
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:21,160
you can place like ideally the fish side down in your mouth.

580
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,720
And you should close your eyes while you eat a good sushi.

581
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:29,640
Well, now you don't have to, but it's a good recommendation, I guess.

582
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:30,640
Yeah.

583
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:36,160
And if you find that your little soy sauce dish has, you know, like, it's like full of

584
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:41,760
grains of rice that have just like broken off and fallen in there, then either the guy

585
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,600
who's making your sushi is not really doing it right or you're just a little pig and you

586
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,520
need to change your ways.

587
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:51,520
Because that is not how you do it.

588
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:58,920
That's it for this week's episode of potluck food talks.

589
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,760
If you like what we're doing, make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss

590
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:04,040
an episode.

591
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,040
You can also find us on Instagram and Tik Tok as potluck food talks.

592
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:22,240
The show airs every Monday.