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Hi everyone, welcome to potluck food talks. Today we're going to talk about tacos.

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Tacos. I think tacos are some of our favorite foods, no?

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One of the best things in the world, yeah. Especially authentic, real tacos.

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It's really hard to find authentic, real tacos. Like, I mean, you know, I can't talk for anybody,

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and like, I can't talk for the states, where I think that, you know, there's a lot more.

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But I mean, like in Europe and anywhere else I've been, it's pretty much impossible to find,

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like, proper authentic Mexican food, let alone tacos.

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I would say it's pretty hard, but there are always like secret corners where you find something.

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Yeah, there's always a group, if there's Mexicans around, there's tacos around, you know,

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there's somewhere in some backyard, there's somebody making tacos de lengua, you know.

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So what can you talk about your experience in Mexico? I haven't been to Mexico,

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and you lived there for how long? About two years?

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About two years, yeah. In Mexico City, primarily.

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And I think that I lived, like, 80% of my diet consisted of tacos.

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Yeah, no joke. I mean, it's just like so convenient to just walk out the door,

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and you have stand next to stand next to stand selling tacos.

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And I mean, what is a taco, you know? A taco is, you know, things in a tortilla.

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Basically, yeah. And apart from that, you know,

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it varies so much in style. And that's what I found super, super interesting, you know?

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Yeah, it's like a super broad universe, right? There are like many different tortillas,

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also different traditions, regions, there are even Arabian tacos, which is something traditional

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Mexican. Did you try all of these things over there? I tried to, man. I tried to try more.

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It's like Pokemon, you know? Gotta catch them all. But it was too many in my limited amount of time

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in that beautiful country. But I did, like, it was my main occupation, sort of like in my free time,

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to go and search out taco places, because I found it super fascinating. And also just, like,

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even like inside of the different styles, like, you know, because the taco stand is often so

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makeshift, you know, it's like, it's just people putting up a stand and then making something,

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putting it in a tortilla and selling it to you for money. That even if they're doing like a certain

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style, there's like little differences that really make a big difference. And so everybody has their,

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like, favorite place that they go to, or they have this like secret tip, like, oh, man, there's this

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one place, but it's only there on Thursdays. And you have to go there quickly because it sells out

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in like one hour. And yeah, it's like Donnas in Berlin, that you have your secret Donna place that you only

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share with your friends because you don't want nobody to know. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, for me,

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the big difference in tacos is sort of like, there's like, I think the two main ones are,

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there's carnitas and there's al vapor, or like tacos de cabeza. And carnitas are, you know,

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meats that's cooked in fat. Basically, you have a big pot of sort of like boiling fat. And it's not

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just fat, it's other secretive things too. You know, I've seen and heard people using very strange

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things that are put into this cooking concoction that they end up cooking the slabs of pork in,

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like Coca-Cola. Mexican cuisine is super maximalistic, right? You will see like,

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recipes with lots of steps and large lists of ingredients. And it's like, yeah.

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Come on. And it's like, you know, like for me, as a, as a like a Western cook coming from

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Michelin star cooking, you know, when I was talking to local people and I was sort of like,

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man, the carnitas, they're super nice. And it's sort of like, oh yeah, you know how they make them,

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they take pork fat and they add Coca-Cola. And they, and for me it was like, no, don't tell me this.

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I know, but I've seen that a lot. Basically, if you think about it, Coca-Cola is, if you reduce

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it to nothing, it's water with sugar and spices, you know, that's what it is. So, well, yeah,

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but it still feels wrong, you know? It does. It does. Like, but I've heard of people finishing

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sauces with Coca-Cola reduction and Michelin star restaurants. I've heard about that. I won't say

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the name of the restaurant. Yeah, Tim Rao maybe, but we don't talk about that. You know, it was

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actually, I won't say it. Okay. You'll tell me later. No, but Tim Rao, I've heard he, I've heard

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that with Red Bull, I didn't, yeah, like cooking some grapes in a Red Bull reduction or something

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like that. Yeah. I've heard, I've heard my share of stories, but anyway, you know, it's,

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if we're to judge, we don't have three missions. I actually like his cooking. If I'm honest,

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I went there once and I really liked it. What do we have to say? Yeah, it's good. Yeah. And so like,

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I mean, basically it's sort of like for me, from my ignorant foreign point of view, it was kind of

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like, okay, it's either confit and fat or it's cooked with steam. And so often you steam a whole

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head and then use up all the parts from the head, whether that's the cheeks, whether that's the tongue

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and yeah, and then there's obviously there's barbacoa, which we briefly talked about the other

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day, I think, oh no, we didn't touch on it, but which is super interesting. You know, it's,

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it's not really tacos, but it's often served, you know, as a taco, sort of like pits cooking lamb.

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Then there's birria, you know, which is things cooked in a sort of broth, shredded meat, you

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know, and a very intense broth. So you're just very cool because you get a little cup of the

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consomme with a little bit of like diced onion and cilantro in it. And you can drink the consomme

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before you eat your tacos, or you can dip your taco into the consomme. Super delicious. Always

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one of my favorites. Obviously there's the famous tacos al pastor, you know, which are super

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quintessential, you know, achiote, marinated meat that's, you know, layered up like a duna, you

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know, which comes from the Arabs, the Arab culture of sort of like making kebabs with the pineapple

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on top. And yeah, and then obviously everything in between, you know, sort of like, ah, fuck,

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with chistora, you know, with cheese, like bistec, which is basically just like a thin slice of beef,

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cecina, which is also very interesting, which is beef, that's kind of like a beef jerky,

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they take beef and they cut it super, super thinly into like a huge sheet. And then they cure it and

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air dry it until it's basically like a light beef jerky. And then it's kind of seared off and put

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into a taco. It's a very, very complex eating culture. Then you have all these types of tortillas,

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comes to my mind, the one with the hojasanta, which is green. Then you have the one with,

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is it always the brown gray one? Is that always with la coche or is there something else?

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There are some that are kind of gray, others more brown, like.

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I think the gray one might be with la coche, yeah, but it's like these like many different

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colors, types of tortilla. Wait a second, let's explain, let's explain what with la coche is.

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Ah, yeah. Because it's, yeah, that's quite something. So in French, they call it

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champignon de mais, like corn fungus, because that's what it is. So you see this, imagine like a

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corn grain that grows like a champignon out of the, so if you see it's counterintuitive to see like

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a champignon full of gray mushrooms that grow out of it and then thinking like, oh, this is the

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delicious part that I'm going to take out and eat, you know, like that's something that really

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impressed me the first time that I saw it. And it's something that is super, super delicious.

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It's somewhere in between corn and mushrooms. Yeah, it's like you say, it's such a weird thing

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because it is an infection in a way, it's fungus spores that infect the corn and then it morphs,

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you know, it like it grows into these bulbous sort of tumor looking like gray corn monsters,

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but it's not just molding or like going off, it's a very specific type of spore that grows

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under very specific conditions. And so it's kind of like, it's like the Mexican truffle, but it's

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like a, you know, like in wine, there's a like a noble rot it's called, you know, where grapes

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start to mold in a very specific way, but that concentrates the sugars and makes it really

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delicious. And it's kind of the same with the wheat lacotche, it's a very particular type of mold that

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then grows and makes it into this product. It's super fascinating, it's super unique. Never seen

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that anywhere else. Yeah, yeah. Well, I've seen that in Bolivia actually. And it was funny because

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the caseras, the cholitas as they call them, you know, these farm ladies, they would hide it,

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you know, it was something, I mean, they know that, they probably know that, that's super delicious,

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you know. Yeah. But then obviously Mexico has an amazing variety of heritage like urlule corn in

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many, many different types of colors. And the main difference is, you know, the geographical point.

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So in Mexico, they eat two types of tortillas, it's either a flour tortilla or it's a corn tortilla.

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So in the north, you know, where it's more deserty and they grow more wheat, it's a flour tortilla,

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and then sort of like more center and more south where they can grow corn and they eat corn tortillas,

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you know. So depending on who you talk to. As far as I know, wheat was introduced by

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Europeans, right? It's not something I've talked to us from, I think so. Yeah. I would say so.

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I think so. Yeah. And yeah, if you see these sort of tortillas that are like pink or like dark blue,

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you know, that's just the color of the corn, you know, that doesn't get lost. Yeah. That doesn't

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get lost by nixtamalization. That's just like urlule corn. Okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

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Nixtamalization. Let's talk about that. Because that's also like a super crazy ancient Mexican

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culinary technique that doesn't exist nowhere else, which is crazy. Yeah. It's cooking with,

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how do you call that in English? Lye is what you call it. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So

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basically it used to be done with ash. Ash used to be mixed into the water that was used to cook

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corn. Yeah, like super highly alkaline, right? That's exactly right. But it's a little bit of

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a fickle process. It has to be the right alkalinity and it changes the proportions of the corn to be

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digestible, you know, for one. It also changes the way that it holds together when you, because if

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you cook corn, you grind it, you can't make, it doesn't have any gluten. It doesn't stick together.

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Right? So this process, it changes the proportions of the corn so that you can actually form a tortilla

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out of it. And also on top of that, it changes the flavor in a very, very particular way. It's very

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hard to describe. If you have experienced it, if you have tasted it, if you've ever had a, like a

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nice fresh made tortilla, like you'll know the flavor. It's this very particular nixtamalized

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flavor that is the sort of culinary heritage of, you know, Mexicans. I think every Mexican that's

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like, you know, out of their country for a while, and then they smell or taste this like flavor of

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nixtamalization, they're immediately brought back home. There's also a flavor that I've never seen

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anywhere else. Yeah, it's something super particular, both the technique and the flavor. And then it's a

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key for tacos and many corn derived products. I wonder if the word nixtamal and what tamal means

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in Aztec or whatever that word comes from, because tamal is at the same time, this, you know, this

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corn, how would you describe it? Like a corn dumpling, something like that? A tamal. Yeah. Yeah.

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Yeah. Basically it's kind of like a, I mean, like the word tamal, it appears in different Latin

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cultures, no? But in Mexico, it's usually, yeah, it's like, yeah, kind of like a dumpling, no? Like

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a dumpling, like a boiled cornbread. I don't know how to like a huge corn gnocchi. I don't know how

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to describe it. It's kind of hard to describe, like this corn gelatin sort of thing wrapped in

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leaves and then steamed, usually like filled also. Exactly. Sometimes corn leaves, sometimes also

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plantain leaves. Super, super traditional and super delicious. And yeah, also only like, you know,

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doable because of the nixtamalization, otherwise it would just completely crumble apart. But there's

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so many of those like tamales, you know, there's tetelas, there's like so many different shapes,

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you know, there's gorditas, you know, which are like these fat little sort of like discs that

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there's topes, I think they're called. Yeah. So it was like, there's different shapes that people

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use this masa, which is basically what nixtamalized and then ground corn is in Mexico. Yeah. The same

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with tortillas. I remember also that there are this like, how are they called? Infladitas, which

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are the ones that, you know, it's kind of this potato soufflés, like soufflé tortillas that are

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empty on the inside. I've also seen, I had in Cosme this other tortillas that were air dried,

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that is also completely counterintuitive. Like that being something, you know, like making chips

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out of tortillas, like letting them air dry. Yeah. Yeah. It's a whole universe. It's such an ancient,

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such an old culture. And I guess like at least, well, we can't know, but I think that there are

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many traditions that have been preserved culinary wise and others that have evolved, as I said,

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like the introduction of wheat or of other cultures, like the Arabs that have like made

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their own contribution. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. And it's like, you know, all these like

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traditional things, I think there's really beautiful movement in Mexico, in the culinary

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world where young chefs, they try to not necessarily revive, but kind of like take all these like,

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you know, traditional things and present them in like a modern way, but keeping their like heritage

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roots, like really, really well intact. And yeah, I mean, if you haven't been to Mexico and you go

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there, it's like a, it's just really easy to discover, you know, Mexican food in a very

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authentic way. Yeah. That's something I absolutely have to do. Yeah. What else? Do you have like a

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memorable taco? Like one you said, okay, that was like something out of this world. I have a few,

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you know, I have a few. I am, so I, I'm a big fan of tacos de cabeza, you know, tacos de lengua.

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So tongue tacos and tacos de cachete were always my thing. Oh, okay. Cabesas, cabesas head, what

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kind of pork's head? So tacos de cabeza is usually a steamed cow's head. And you know, you steam the

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head whole for a long time until everything's really, really tender. And basically everything

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from the head is used. The cheeks, which in Mexico, like a Latin Spanish are called cachete,

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which is super gelatinous and fatty and delicious. And then the tongue obviously, which is really

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meaty, you know, taco de lengua, but then also the eyes and like different parts from the heads,

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the chow, you know, it's a super, super nice. I always really liked it because it was so clean.

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It wasn't like super fatty or anything really meaty and juicy. Cooking with steam is such a

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beautiful way of cooking anything, you know, cause it's so gentle. Then there's a place in Mexico

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city called Cocuyos and they make a taco de tripa. So a tripe taco, which is insanely good. They

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confit a tripe. So if you have this like, you have this carnitas pot, it's a huge pot of bubbling oil

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and you have meat, different cuts. You have nopales, which is the cactus, you know, that are kind of

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confiting there. Usually you have some longaniza or so, you know, the sausage. And then at the side,

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they just had the tripe, the intestines that were confiting for a really long time. So they were

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really, really tender. And then before they serve them, before they put them in a taco,

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they just put them on a plancha, on a really hot plancha, just like on both sides until they're

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like a little bit crispy, chop them up, put them in a taco. And I'm super amazing. Super, super nice.

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That sounds really good.

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It's amazing. Like it's so nice, you know, like I know a lot of people have, you know,

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they don't like to eat awful so much, but you had zero like bad flavor or smell, you know, it's,

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it was just absolutely delicious. A little bit crispy, a little bit chewy, super, super delicious.

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I had one birria place that I really liked where the consomme was just like this really intense

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beef bouillon with chili and, you know, like a little bit of raw onion in it. And it was just

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really, really nice. And they actually, that birria place, they had amazing birria, but they also made

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a taco de bistec where they just had like thinly sliced beef that they would sear. And then I would

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always order it with cheese. So they put some queso Oaxaca on top, that like stringy cheese that

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melts really well. And what they would do is they would sear the beef and then they would add a very

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generous splash of Maggi seasoning sauce. And that would caramelize and like glaze the beef. And then

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they would put the cheese on top. And then they would put in a little bit of French fries into the

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taco, like fried potato. Oh my fucking God, that was so good. It was like a bigger taco,

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like larger size than the usual. The tortillas you get are usually quite small. Also, you know,

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inside a tip, never order more than two tacos at a time. You know, don't be a tourist and order

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like five. Yeah, don't be a gringo and order five, six tacos at the same time. Order two then order

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two more, you know, don't be greedy. But yeah, it was like a little bit bigger and it was just super

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filthy. But this like umami bomb was like amazing. And then like also a really funny thing that a

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taco stand like near my house did was they had like funny names for the tacos they would do.

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So they would have the lawyer and the lawyer would be, can you guess what the lawyer would be?

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No, no idea. A lot of tongue and just a little bit of brain. That's so funny, man. And I thought,

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I thought that was super charming, you know. That's so nice. Well, as you know, I haven't been to

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Mexico, but I would say the nearest experience I had was like a proper taco experience apart from

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having tacos in different tacos places around the world, like presumably authentic tacos,

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whatever you can find in other countries. But eating at Cosme in New York was quite an experience.

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Cosme is this restaurant run by Daniela Soto Ines and at the same time is part of Enrique Olvera's

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group. Enrique Olvera was this chef that he was probably the first one to put tacos in a fine

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dining context to having like a long tasting menu where tacos is a very important part of the menu

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and it works kind of like nigiris where you have like just like a very little piece where you have

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everything in one or two bites, which is like a more fancy, minimalistic way of presenting tacos.

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Some are purple because it's purple corn. The other ones are brown because it's with lacoche

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and different types of tortilla, different toppings, like this whole experience, having them

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warm, like these authentic tortillas of Corda that have this special break to it when you're

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different from wheat tortilla that are like perhaps more elastic, I would say. And yeah,

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and having different toppings, different sauces. Yeah, it's quite a thing. I think everybody loves

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tacos and tortillas. Yeah, absolutely. One of the best meals that I had while I was in Mexico City

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was cooked by a good friend of mine, Victor. Victor Alejandro Bermudez, who was working with me in

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Loria in Mexico City and his grandma cooked lengua in pipian, which is like a sauce made from seeds,

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like often like pumpkin seeds, you know, it's sort of like, it's kind of hard to explain, but it's

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like sweet, delicious thick sauce with chilies and seeds and stewed tongue. And we had it with

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tortillas de harina, so flour tortillas, which are also made in a very particular way with a little

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bit of manteca, so a little bit of pork fat. And they were really like, I was surprised because

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I was always like, all corn tortillas are much better than flour tortillas, you know, but then

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I had like a proper flour tortilla and it was so like soft and smooth and it had this like,

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the pork fat gave it like this little bit of silkiness and this lengua in pipian was by far

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one of the best things I had in my time in Mexico, it's absolutely amazing.

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That's it for this week's episode of Potluck Food Talks. If you like what we're doing,

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