1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,480 Hi everyone, welcome to potluck food talks. Today we're going to talk about fish. So what's 2 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,160 the deal about fish, Phil? 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:16,500 I love cooking with fish. Fish is one of those like noble ingredients, no? There's something 4 00:00:16,500 --> 00:00:22,760 about it where it's like, I think it's really easy to fuck it up. But like, if you get it 5 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,760 right, it's like, I feel like it's one of those things that like very few places get 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:31,400 it right. It's like, some people they get it to a state where it's like, it's all right, 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:36,720 it's okay, it's not completely cooked to shit. But there's really few places that really 8 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:38,200 nail fish cooking. 9 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:43,760 No, and this is the reason I've noticed that like in high end restaurants, always fish 10 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:49,880 is like a big deal, you know, that there is like a specific supplier. And sometimes everything 11 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:55,180 comes at the same time and people goes crazy like cleaning fish and packing it and whatever 12 00:00:55,180 --> 00:01:01,600 processing it just at the moment when it arrives because the cold chain is so critical and 13 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:06,360 that there are so many aspects that people have to take care of. And if you do everything 14 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:11,600 right but the product is not good, you wasted your time anyway. So there are like many, 15 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,600 many indicators to get a right fish on a plate. 16 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:20,060 Yeah, absolutely. Totally. It's like sourcing is super, super important. I mean, even more 17 00:01:20,060 --> 00:01:26,400 so than with meat, you know, and then also like the attention to detail in the execution, 18 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:31,800 you know, and also kind of just a general understanding, you know, like of what's happening 19 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,680 because it's not like you can just press on it and feel like oh, this is medium, this 20 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:41,000 is medium. Well, it doesn't work with fish. So, you know, like Fergus Henderson from St. 21 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:47,040 John restaurant, you know, at one point he said, good chefs have to use their Jedi senses, 22 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:52,280 you know, as in sort of like feeling what is happening. And I think that's really true 23 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:57,400 with fish that you kind of have to, you just have to cook it a lot and handle it a lot 24 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,080 and just have a feeling for what's going on when you're preparing it. 25 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:06,520 Right, like they're developing an intuition to know when it's right, when it's done, what's 26 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:12,400 the point because you kind of have to guess like, okay, I know this is okay, because I've 27 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:17,120 done this many times, but I can prove it, you know, like I won't like stick a thermometer 28 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,360 into the center of the fish or something like that. 29 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:25,740 Yeah. And it's like, I feel like either people go, people either overcook it, or they really 30 00:02:25,740 --> 00:02:31,600 focus on this idea of it has to be glazy in the center, you know, like a little bit raw. 31 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,720 And then they overdo that. So then you end up with a fish that has this like raw gelatinous 32 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,340 center in the middle. And then you cut it open, you see that it's like a little bit 33 00:02:39,340 --> 00:02:42,840 shiny and glazy in the center. And people think like, oh yeah, look at me, I cooked 34 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,840 this really, really well. But actually it's like, no, you didn't cook it enough. Like 35 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:53,040 it's about cooking it just enough, you know, like oxing out this, this moment where it's 36 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:57,320 just cooked enough. And then anything after that is overcooked. 37 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:03,960 I love this Basque technique of grilled fish where they, they cut it in butterfly and grill 38 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:11,640 it on one side, just one side. So the, the upper side is usually still raw, but just, 39 00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:18,800 just a little bit, you know, just a little push to get done. So what people do here is 40 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:24,320 they bring olive oil to a high temperature with slices of garlic and a little bit of 41 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:30,120 chili and they pour that on top, which is a technique that I have seen in Japanese cuisine 42 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:35,440 mainly, like doing this with carpaccio, but it's a tradition here. Sometimes they also 43 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:41,600 add like a splash of vinegar to this. So it's kind of like a super hot dressing that they 44 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:45,880 pour on top. And this is, you won't see a place where, where they do it wrong because 45 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:51,000 it's actually a pretty safe technique, you know, to get the, the, the proper cooking 46 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:55,000 point without having to think too much. It's kind of safe, you know, like to do it this 47 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,060 way. Yeah, definitely. And just like cutting this 48 00:03:57,060 --> 00:04:03,080 like garlicky oil with like this, like white vinegar makes this super, super delicious 49 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,920 dressing, especially often then when the fish often like it's also doused on the fish as 50 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:13,180 it's grilling, you know, exactly. Yeah. They brush it on top. Yeah. And then depending 51 00:04:13,180 --> 00:04:18,480 on the fish often, you know, the, this dressing will kind of like seep onto the plate and 52 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:24,600 the gelatin from the fish will kind of like get released with it. And then, you know, 53 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:29,120 like sometimes in very specific places, you see them kind of mixing up these like gelatinous 54 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,640 juices with that dressing and emulsifying them at the table and then dressing the fish 55 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:38,360 again next to the table with it. That's so crazy. Yeah. I've seen that. And that's super 56 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:43,360 unique. And if you haven't experienced it, it's, it's a really crazy thing because it 57 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,700 changes your, like, it really changes the, I hate this word, but it changes the mouth 58 00:04:47,700 --> 00:04:53,880 feel of the fish. You really have to sort of like lip smacking kind of sticky sort of 59 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:59,320 tasty fish sensation when you're eating the fish. Super nice. Yeah. Like I've been to 60 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:04,880 Elcano a couple of times and this also happens, like, you know, the maître comes to the table 61 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:10,080 and explains all the different parts of the fish and how it behaves in the sea and why 62 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,920 the, how the different parts taste together while he's doing exactly what you just said, 63 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:20,040 like emulsifying the sauce with the collagen of the fish and, and pouring it on top. So 64 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:24,320 it's like a super amazing experience. Yeah, totally. I mean, the understanding that they 65 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:28,400 have at Elcano is crazy about also, you know, the flatfish are sort of like, which side 66 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:33,560 is facing the sun, which side is facing the ground of the ocean with the different colors, 67 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,540 you know, and like what parts of the fish work more kind of like how you would think 68 00:05:37,540 --> 00:05:41,960 of like a cow, you know, sort of like, oh, this muscle moves a lot. So it's a lot tougher 69 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:46,360 and this muscle doesn't move a lot. So it's got more fat marbling and nobody really thinks 70 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:51,360 of fish like that. And, but they do, you know, and it makes total sense that different parts 71 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,800 of the fish, especially when you have a big fish, like a turbot, they are different, you 72 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,880 know, they have a different texture, they have a different amount of, you know, like 73 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:04,680 fiber and gelatin and dust, those sorts of things as super, super interesting approach. 74 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:12,160 Like a crazy, if we talk about fish, I would say the craziest techniques, the most sophisticated 75 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:19,040 and complex that you can find are in Japan and you work in Japan. Let's talk about Ikejime 76 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:24,880 because that's a crazy technique to explain. I'll say the way I understand it and then 77 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:30,320 you can like talk on that. Like the way I understand it is that you first catch the 78 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:36,760 fish alive and you hit it in the head so it gets a little bit dumb. And at that point 79 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:44,200 you put like, kind of like a super fine nail through its, how do you say it, its spine 80 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:52,160 cord? Spine, yeah. Yeah, exactly. To give it like a proper that so the muscles loosen, 81 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,760 something like that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I mean, there's just different ways of 82 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,840 doing it. There's one way where you have this like little book that kind of looks like a 83 00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:08,560 fishing book on like a stick and you kind of like insert that at a spot behind the eye 84 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:14,400 so that you kind of like go right into the brain. So you instantly kill the fish. It 85 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:19,200 sounds very brutal, very gruesome, but actually it's very humane because it instantly kills 86 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:24,960 the fish, right? Instead of in, you know, not so well practiced fishing habits where 87 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,880 the fish just kind of like gets thrown into the deck and suffocates and it's like flopping 88 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:33,880 around and kind of stressing itself out and also damaging itself, you know, or like, you 89 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:38,280 know, fish that just kind of get whacked over the head. And so it's like they get hematomes 90 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:44,280 and also a lot of stress and is released into the muscles of the fish, you know, which is 91 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:49,800 the fillets. And all of that affects the taste and just, you know, before we go on and talk 92 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,400 about Ikejime, you know, like I think that's like one of the main things is the blood in 93 00:07:53,400 --> 00:08:00,960 the fish, you know, the like blood is the thing that makes fish taste of an irony and 94 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:06,520 fishy, you know? So basically you don't want any blood. You don't want any hematomes. You 95 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:11,080 don't want any punctures and you want to get the blood out of the fish as quickly as possible. 96 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,680 Because it's going to be used for sashimi. That's the reason you don't want to see red 97 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:20,040 dots in your sashimi. Exactly. Because if you eat it raw, all those like off tastes 98 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:25,440 are really, really apparent. So like you said, you know, the fish gets killed and then two 99 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:31,120 incisions are made where basically the neck is just behind the gills at the spine and 100 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:37,960 at the tail. Incisions that cut through the spine, but not all the way through the fish. 101 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:43,480 And then a very long needle is inserted into the spine that break and so, you know, from 102 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:48,840 the neck down to the tail. And then it's kind of like move back and forth to make sure to 103 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:55,960 destroy and cap all of those nerves. And what that does is that the fish is immediately 104 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:01,880 completely nerve dead and the rigor mortis doesn't set in. So rigor mortis is, as most 105 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:08,000 people will know, the tensing of the muscles after something has died. It happens in most 106 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,840 animals, you know, in fish, in mammals and everything, you know, when you die, you have 107 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:18,820 this like stiffness and that doesn't happen because you cap the nerves. So that is one 108 00:09:18,820 --> 00:09:22,820 part that's very important. But then the other part of Ikejima that's really important is 109 00:09:22,820 --> 00:09:27,820 that then after that is done, the fish gets put into an ice bath for a certain amount 110 00:09:27,820 --> 00:09:34,120 of time. Now this has the effect that the blood gets to circulate out of the fish through 111 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:40,060 the spine. So it kind of bleeds out through the tail and through the neck into the water. 112 00:09:40,060 --> 00:09:44,220 And then afterwards you take the fish out, you dry it and you prepare it as it would, 113 00:09:44,220 --> 00:09:52,080 you know, the result that you get from that is a very clean, firm, like almost sparkling 114 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:58,780 piece of fish, you know, that has a completely different texture, a super, super clean taste 115 00:09:58,780 --> 00:10:04,600 and visually is also very pure, you know, it's just very, very pure. It just makes, 116 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,080 it gives you like a 10 time better quality of fish if done right. 117 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:14,960 It also comes to my mind, I would say like an old school French chef would say that you 118 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:21,400 don't want to eat your fish super fresh, like freshly killed from the day. Like you would 119 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:28,980 prefer to wait like two days. So the meat dressings, isn't that like a contradiction 120 00:10:28,980 --> 00:10:34,120 with Japanese and French or these are different approaches for different things or what's 121 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:35,720 your thought on that? 122 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:41,220 So I mean, the way that I've seen it is that, and the way that I do it myself also is that 123 00:10:41,220 --> 00:10:45,320 it really depends on the fish that you have. Obviously some fish are leaner, some fish 124 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:52,200 are fattier and I mean, keeping with the example of Japan, when I was in Japan, we would age 125 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:57,440 different fish for a different amount of time. Some fish we would, you know, kill on the 126 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:04,340 day and use them and some fish we would deliberately leave to dry for a couple of days. Obviously 127 00:11:04,340 --> 00:11:09,440 just like with dry aging, you know, like when you dry something, the moisture from the flesh 128 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,240 kind of like evaporates and everything else that's there, the fat and you know, everything 129 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:19,080 else gets more and more concentrated. With things like a turbot, for example, and also 130 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:24,860 like especially if you want to grill a fish, it's really beneficial if you age it a little 131 00:11:24,860 --> 00:11:30,680 bit because the skin dries out really nicely. There's no residual, because the flesh also 132 00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:35,800 absorbs water. That's also why it's kind of counterintuitive to put this fish in water 133 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:40,160 to bleed out for five minutes because like the way that I learned in Western cooking 134 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,440 is that you don't want fish to touch water ever. You want it to wash it as quickly as 135 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:49,120 possible, but you don't want to keep the fish lying in water because it'll just soak it 136 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,480 up, right? But because the fish is still whole, when you do that, it's kind of okay because 137 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:58,840 the actual fillets of the fish, they don't touch the water and then yeah, drying it out, 138 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:03,240 that's that. Also for the skin, when you have, for example, your example of butterflying 139 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:08,440 fish, if you have a sea bream and you butterfly it and you leave it open in the fridge with 140 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,560 the skin, just like the flesh touching, whatever you have it on, the tray, the plate, whatever, 141 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:18,000 and the skin being open, it dries out and then when you grill it, it gets super, super 142 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:23,540 crispy, like shattering crispy. And obviously the flavor of the fish gets more intensive. 143 00:12:23,540 --> 00:12:28,520 But also in Japan, what we would do often is that we would take fillets of fish and 144 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:35,000 to draw out that moisture even quicker, we would really lightly salt it and leave it 145 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,800 for a couple of hours and then really quickly wash it off. So it's like a very quick dry 146 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:45,920 brine. Really quickly wash it off, pat it dry. Yeah, I wanted to talk about brines and salt 147 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:50,200 as well because that's something, also something about fish that you do with fish that you 148 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:58,920 would never do with meat, like pre-salting or making quick brines to have a proper amount 149 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:06,020 of salt, like completely, how to say, standardized for large batches. Let's say for an event 150 00:13:06,020 --> 00:13:09,480 of 100 people, you want to do something like that, you know? So you're sure that all the 151 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:14,160 salt is okay for the 150 or whatever pieces that you're going to cook that day, which 152 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:19,200 is something nobody would ever do with meat, you know? I think that salt is also super 153 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:24,400 relevant to talk about how to use it and what to do and not to do. Yeah, absolutely. And 154 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,600 I mean, even for the, we were even doing it for things like sashimi, you know? It's like, 155 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:33,080 it really depends on the size and the fat content and you know, what you really want 156 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,200 from that fish. You know, some fish you want to leave completely untouched and just clean 157 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,880 it nicely. You always want to have it dry. You know, you don't want the fish to be sitting 158 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:46,840 in its excess liquid. But yeah, some pieces we would salt and then wash again, you know, 159 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:52,520 and then pat dry. And it would change, really change the texture, make it really meaty and 160 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,960 tender. And I think that like, these are sort of like the aspects that, and also it draws 161 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,440 out, you know, residual blood also, you know? If there is like a little bit of a blood line 162 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,160 left in the fish, you know, you salt it and it draws that out a little bit more. It gives 163 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:11,120 you really, really clean flavor of fish. And I think these sorts of things, it's like, 164 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,440 it's super easy to fuck that up, you know? It's like you put a little bit too much salt 165 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:19,400 on it and you leave it for two hours and you have semi-cured fish. Yeah, exactly. And if 166 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,840 you don't clean the fish correctly, you know, you take the guts out the wrong way, you puncture 167 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:29,600 the gallbladder, you know, your fish is going to taste awful. You can't fix that, you know, 168 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:35,040 unless you put a ton of lemon on it. That's probably the reason the fish chef in a restaurant, 169 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:40,200 it's always like a highly skilled chef, like someone who knows to do all of this properly, 170 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:44,920 like, which is not easy at all. And also, and also because fish is very expensive, you 171 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:51,640 know? So if you fuck it up, then you've wasted a lot of money. I wanted to tell a story about, 172 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:57,760 like my favorite fish that I remember was something, nothing pretentious at all. Like 173 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:03,160 there is a beach in Margarita Island in Venezuela, it's called Playa Parquito, and they would 174 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:11,560 do this grilled fish inside like of banana plant leaves and ají dulce, they made like 175 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:18,160 this. It was just ají dulce salt and kind of like a papillote, you know, and grilled. 176 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:24,480 And the memory I have of this is amazing, you know? And I remember someone, I'm telling 177 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:31,240 this because you said about that some fishes are leaner, others are fattier, and you have 178 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:37,160 to understand your product and how to cook it and what to do with it. And you can't say 179 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,120 one is better than the other, they're just different fishes, you know? And I remember 180 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:47,040 someone telling like really pretentiously, like, no, as you know, Nordic fish is much 181 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:51,440 better than the fish in the Caribbean. And I was like, what the fuck? Yeah, and this 182 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:58,320 is scientifically provable because it's fattier and this and that. And I was like, okay, you 183 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:05,280 can't say that, you know, like, not just like that. But anyways, yeah, like, I think it's 184 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,200 important to understand the quality of the fish and what to do with it independently 185 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,200 of that some are better or worse, you know, as long as you have a fresh product. 186 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:18,840 Absolutely, yeah. And I think this whole idea of like fattier is better is really, like, 187 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,800 is really superficial. I mean, you know, like, I think sushi is the perfect example for that, 188 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:28,240 because if you think like, you know, like, let's say Western audience, you know, for 189 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:33,320 them, what's their favorite sushi? It's the fatty otoro, you know, it's the fatty tuna. 190 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:40,080 But if you ask a Japanese person or like somebody who's an expert, they find that the leaner 191 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,520 tuna pieces are much more interesting than the and much more enjoyable often than the 192 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:49,120 fatty tuna pieces. It's very easy to have something super fatty and it'd be tasty, you 193 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:54,080 know, but that's just like, it's a very, like, it's a very brute way of nice, you know, like, 194 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:59,360 I like it too, it's delicious. But, you know, if you have a really excellently prepared 195 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:04,120 piece of, you know, katsu, there's like a lean sort of like smaller tuna, like a bonito, 196 00:17:04,120 --> 00:17:08,600 it's amazing, you know, and so this idea of fatty equals better. It's the same with beef, 197 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,520 you know, it's still sort of like, oh, wagyu this, wagyu that. Yeah, wagyu is very tasty. 198 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:17,240 But if you have, you know, like, I mean, you and me know, for me, one of the best beefs 199 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:25,040 that I've eaten is the, is the, the Vagagallega, you know, the dairy cow. Yeah. And, and that's 200 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:31,240 not particularly super fatty. Yeah. That's not like a particular expensive piece of special 201 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:37,320 meat. That's just like a particular cut. That's it. Yeah. What about fish stock? What are 202 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,200 your thoughts on that? You know, fish stock is really difficult because you also, you 203 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,680 can't like making a nice fish stock is a bit of an art form, I think making stocks in general 204 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,920 is a big art form, you know, it's not just throwing things into a pot and just bringing 205 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:55,120 them to a boil. Not, I don't think you can make nice, you know, what we in French cooking 206 00:17:55,120 --> 00:18:01,200 we call a fumet, a nice clean white fish stock. You can't do that out of any sort of old fish, 207 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:06,000 you know, for example, like odd and those sorts of things and carp and they don't work 208 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:12,760 as they become too cloudy. But you know, I'm a big fan of making, you know, meat style 209 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:17,720 sauces as in like, like how you would make a jus where you roast the bones and you make 210 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:22,320 like a base and then you make like intense sort of glazes, but with fish bones, when 211 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,240 you kind of like have the spines and you roast it really nicely, you have to be very careful 212 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,880 with fish because it'll get really bitter very quickly. And then you make a base and 213 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:34,760 you cook a sort of like butter, like a beurre blanc sauce, but with this roasted base, it's 214 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:42,280 very, very, especially nice. That reminds me of the soup at Delcano, you know, the dark 215 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:48,120 fish soup. Have you had it? I haven't had it now, unfortunately. Yeah. Like next time 216 00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:53,480 you go ask for it because it's like a, you know, a starter. It's just like a small bowl 217 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:59,840 of super dark brown fish soup. Yeah. Nice. Amazing. You know, if you get that right, 218 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:05,840 it's a revelation, but yeah, cooking fish soup, because you have all these like elements 219 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:12,000 that can make it cloudy and smelly and it's like, it's not so easy. I mean, I like very 220 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:18,360 much the way it's done here, like for salsa verde, you know, that's almost like a fish 221 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:27,200 parsley infusion, you know, it's like a super light fish stock, you know, like, and quickly 222 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:32,440 cooked and not letting it boil never, you know, like something really, really delicate. 223 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:37,600 Being delicate is one of the key things like with preparing fish. You can't be rough. It 224 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:43,720 has to be, you have to be deliberate, you know. One thing I also found really cool, 225 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:52,240 what I saw in Japan is that they were keeping the, I think it was the bones of, I might 226 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:57,440 be lying now, it was either fugu or it was unagi. I think it was unagi. I think it's 227 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:04,080 the eel bones. And they were keeping the center bones and they were toasting them on the charcoal, 228 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:08,440 like really lightly until they were like golden brown and then they put them in sake. 229 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:14,080 I've worked in a place, we would do our own unagi sauce, like on the Yaki Tori grill. 230 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:22,720 We would get like fresh eels from, from Northern Germany. And yeah, process the whole eel, 231 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:29,480 roast the bones and making, as you said, like a dark fish sauce, but with eel. And this 232 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,360 was amazing. Like I never had something like that. 233 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:38,040 Super nice. Yeah. But I also, they put it in sake. It's like a thing that you like have 234 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:42,800 then this like roasted fish bone sake and you have like a small shot of that. And that's 235 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,680 also, that was super crazy. I was like, wow. 236 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:46,880 You eat the roasted bones? 237 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,560 No, you don't eat it. You just drink the flavored alcohol. 238 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,680 Ah, okay. Ah, that's super interesting. That's super, super interesting. 239 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,200 Yeah. I never saw that before. 240 00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:00,720 Yeah. That kind of reminds me for me, it was also revealing at the ramen place. The first 241 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:06,600 time I saw rice tea and I was like, what is it? It was green tea and they would add roasted 242 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:12,000 rice to the tea to give it right roasted rice flavor. I thought that was pretty cool as 243 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,000 well. 244 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,600 Yeah. That's called Genmaicha. It's really delicious. It's like such a, I remember when 245 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,520 I tried it the first time, I thought it was really weird. Like, cause I couldn't relate 246 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:27,360 to it, you know, but it's like now it's, it has this really homely feel, you know, just 247 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:28,360 like roasted rice. 248 00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:35,000 Yeah. It's kind of like popcorns or something like that. Like roasted rice. Yeah. 249 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:40,840 Super delicious. 250 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:45,320 That's it for this week's episode of Potluck Food Talks. If you like what we're doing, 251 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:49,740 make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. You can also find us 252 00:21:49,740 --> 00:21:58,440 on Instagram and Tik Tok as Potluck Food Talks. The show airs every Monday.