1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,880
Hi everyone, welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks. Today we're going to talk about the line.

2
00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:13,040
The line, you know, there's some of my favorite episodes.

3
00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:17,600
Yeah, people asked for it. They told us we probably have some more stories to tell. I

4
00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:23,520
had to think about what to tell, but there is something. So I was working in this place,

5
00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:30,160
I was like 20 years old and I got this position at the top three Michelin star restaurant. At the

6
00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:36,880
time it was on the top 10 San Pellegrino list. It was quite a place to go. I was a huge fan of this

7
00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:42,880
chef. So I got a deal where I would work with someone who was family from the head chef,

8
00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:49,360
not the executive celebrity chef, but the guy running the pass. And I would work with this

9
00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:53,600
family person for three months, no, for the whole summer. And then I would get a position in this

10
00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:59,440
restaurant. And that's what I did. And then the day that I arrived, I say, yeah, I come on behalf

11
00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:05,040
of this and that. And that chef that was supposed to be there, the head chef had just left like two

12
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:10,640
days ago without telling anyone. And everybody hated him. So that was kind of the way I entered

13
00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:17,760
this kitchen. And my plan was to work there for one year. At that moment I had this philosophy

14
00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:23,520
that I think I read once from Charlie Trotters. He said like, just be as long in a place until you

15
00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:28,240
learn everything or how it works and then go to a different one while you're in your learning years.

16
00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:33,520
Right. This is something actually that we can talk about this whole study year controversy,

17
00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:39,120
people saying that this is slavery or this kind of thing. So what are your thoughts on this?

18
00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:44,880
Ah, well, it's a difficult subject, you know, at the end of the day, we both come from backgrounds

19
00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:50,000
where we did the whole stagia thing. And also in a very extreme way, you know, things that you see

20
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,320
in movies where people are like, wow, that's really extreme. That's like over the top. It's kind of

21
00:01:54,320 --> 00:02:01,840
like, well, that's how it really was, you know, like unpaid work for one year, you know, sleeping

22
00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:08,080
in bunk beds and rooms with like six people in it and basically just working. But my take on it is

23
00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:14,080
really, really clear, you know, like I did all of that. And it's benefited myself and my career

24
00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:20,880
immensely, you know, and I learned a huge amount of very, very, you know, different things, not

25
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:26,560
just cooking, but you know, it's just crazy what you learn in these places. It's very tough. It's

26
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:32,800
a huge commitment. It's not for everybody. And that's totally fine. But nobody's forcing you

27
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:38,080
to do it. So if you decide by yourself, if you're in a position that's fortunate enough, that you

28
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:43,200
have the possibility of making the decision that you can go somewhere and work for three months,

29
00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:49,120
for six months, for one year for free for just food and accommodation, then that's a first world

30
00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:54,960
problem. And nobody's forcing you to do it. So, you know, the people that decide to do a stash,

31
00:02:54,960 --> 00:03:01,520
let them do a stash. That's their decision. I did it and I never ever regretted it. Not even once.

32
00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:06,160
Yeah, I completely agree. If that's not for you, that's totally fine. It doesn't make you a less

33
00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,880
good chef or just because you didn't start at Noma, you know, it's just a different thing.

34
00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,920
It's a decision that you make. It doesn't mean that the people who stash and do this sacrifice to

35
00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,640
learn something that doesn't make them any better. You know, it's a choice.

36
00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:26,080
Also for me, I thought it was kind of like a smart thing to do. You know, I was 18, 19 years old and

37
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,800
going to one of these places and getting that on my curriculum. But also at the end of the day,

38
00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:36,320
you're 18, 19 years old. Come on, like you have energy. You can go to these places and absorb a

39
00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:42,160
lot of information. And I have no doubt that the jobs that I've got afterwards are directly related

40
00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:48,800
to these experiences. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Going back to the story, I was in this

41
00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:56,400
restaurant and this head chef, man, this guy was like evil, but like really nasty. Like the new

42
00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:03,840
head chef that was the one that hated the previous one, which I made the deal. And so on one side,

43
00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:09,360
he's probably one of the most talented culinary technicians I've seen. He had like really nice

44
00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:15,200
stuff, like working with foie gras. Like he did like a killer foie gras, like a charcoal grilling

45
00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:22,560
and then poaching it in a super heavy chicken stock. Also the stocks, they would cook them in

46
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:27,680
copper marmites and the effect was completely different. Sometimes we would do like some stocks

47
00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:32,320
in this marmite and the other ones on a stainless steel and you can completely see the difference

48
00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:36,560
just because of the heat transfer of these materials. That was also super interesting.

49
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:41,920
And this guy, you know, he was really like a badass chef. He would like, I know you also really

50
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:49,040
seen someone cleaning a fish with a Chinese cleaver. You know, that's badass. And these kind

51
00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:53,920
of things because that chef, the head chef, the executive chef was opening restaurants also in

52
00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,880
Asia and in different countries. So this guy would travel there to open these places. So he was with

53
00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:05,200
a super strong French background and everything. But on one side, one of the best chefs I've seen

54
00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:10,960
cooking and one of the worst leaders, he would go crazy. He would do everything himself. He was

55
00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:20,000
really into humiliating people. I remember one day we would come on a Monday, 8 a.m. after the weekend,

56
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:24,880
just starting the week. And there was like a glass of water that was out of place. And he calls the

57
00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:33,520
whole staff, the 30 people, and he starts talking and says like, yeah, okay, like who did this?

58
00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:40,240
Who did this? Who was it? No one? No one? I'm counting to three? Two? Okay, no one has a day

59
00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:48,080
of this week. And that's the way you started Monday. Just like that. You know, like this crazy,

60
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:53,440
senseless dictatorship. And this guy really gave the feeling that he was afraid of everyone.

61
00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:58,080
So he would make everyone afraid. He has these things like if you saw him working, he would

62
00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:05,680
scream, look at me. And he would talk like that. So in one of these situations where everybody was

63
00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:10,640
like not knowing what to do, you know, like cleaning what is already cleaned and everything.

64
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:16,560
And you know, like I think in those situations, like a proper restaurant manager, proper chef,

65
00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,720
he will send you home earlier, you know, because there is nothing to do, especially if you're

66
00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:27,120
working on two shifts, right? So you're coming back in the evening so you can go a few hours earlier.

67
00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:31,520
So I see everybody is like doing nothing, pretending they're cleaning what is already

68
00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:36,240
cleaned. Everybody's like walking in circles just to pretend that they're moving. And I'm like,

69
00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,320
what is this? So I go to the chef in the middle of the service. This guy would like,

70
00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,440
I remember him always having like six pans in front of him, like going completely crazy.

71
00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:51,920
And I go there, I don't know what I was thinking of. And I said, chef, we have nothing to do.

72
00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:59,280
Man. So next thing, for the next three weeks, I would just pluck feathers from ducks. And that

73
00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:05,760
was my job for the next three weeks. That's all I did. You know, like, and once I started like

74
00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:10,720
doing it a little bit faster, I got into stations and everything. But man, this place really

75
00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:16,080
depressed me. Like after five months, I couldn't take it any longer. Like I will come depressed

76
00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,560
home every day. Then that's why I quit. Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, I've had these sorts

77
00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,800
of experiences too, you know, and it's this pointless, especially the cleaning, the pointless

78
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:29,520
cleaning, the fact that you have to clean, you know, of course, I think cleaning is one of the

79
00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:35,120
most important things to do right as a chef. Like a clean kitchen means so much, you know,

80
00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:40,320
not just for sanitary reasons, but also just for the attitude and the mindset. And that's no

81
00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:45,440
question. But I also remember when I was working in Japan, just like two o'clock in the morning,

82
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,600
we cleaned everything, you know, and then we stand there and we're sort of like, okay, so what now?

83
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,200
And everybody's waiting to go home. And it's kind of like, well, the head chef is still here,

84
00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,640
so nobody can leave. All right, let's clean everything again. And then you get out, you know,

85
00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:01,680
toothpicks and toothbrushes and start scrubbing like, you know, at three a.m., which is complete.

86
00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:07,840
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's just like you say, it's the worst sort of management that you can do

87
00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:12,160
because these people think all that tough and disciplined and that that's good. But, you know,

88
00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:18,320
you are wasting the energy of your staff and, you know, you will pay the price in the end because

89
00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,920
they won't perform as well, you know, even if you don't care about the people, you know,

90
00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,840
which you should, because a good manager takes care of the people. But even if you don't care

91
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:31,440
about that, and you're only worried about results, it's completely stupid to just waste energy on

92
00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:37,360
nothing, you know. So we had this other story. You remember the special dinner for a cat basic man

93
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:42,400
where we work together? Oh, yeah, that was that was a really that was a really fun dinner. Yeah,

94
00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:49,040
it was, you know, kind of like a cat basic man had been one of the mentors of the chef that we

95
00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:53,760
that we worked for together, who was a very well known chef in Berlin and in Germany.

96
00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,480
And so, of course, you know, like when a cat basic man who's a people who don't know is a

97
00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:04,000
is a giant in the gastronomy scene, you know, he's like one of the I think he was the first

98
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:10,080
three star chef in Germany, right? Yeah, probably. And he also got this chef of the century award

99
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:16,320
from gold me yo, which only he and Joel Robuchon has. Yeah, I'm surprised that he's not more well

100
00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,960
known internationally, you know, in Europe, he's quite well known. Yeah, Germany is quite hermetic,

101
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:26,240
I think gastronomy wise, like here is yeah, funny chef don't know anything about German chefs,

102
00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:32,080
maybe this and both hard and that's it. Yeah, no, no, not both hard. What's the name of this guy

103
00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:39,040
from Aqua? Everfield? Everfield, you know? Yeah. But so anyway, so obviously, you know, he decided

104
00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:44,480
to have his I think it was his 60th birthday there. And I mean, it was quite a small kitchen and quite

105
00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:51,040
a small team. Or, you know, half of the team was like apprentices, right? So the pressure was

106
00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:56,480
definitely on. And then also throughout the dinner, you know, the prep didn't go well. And then, you

107
00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,960
know, everybody got into cooking the dinner. And everybody was pushing everybody was trying their

108
00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:07,600
best. But the chef was so under pressure that, you know, he was just freaking out the whole time.

109
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:13,840
And at one point, at one point, he got into about this guy, how we're going to call him Paul,

110
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:20,320
Paul, Paul, Paul was super nervous, man. He was like, yeah, you know, like this South Park

111
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:26,240
character that always drinks coffee, kind of like that. Yeah, true. Just chain smoke cigarettes,

112
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:30,480
you know, it was just like, but he was doing like a super good job. But at some point, and chef

113
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:35,040
really liked him, I have to say, and that's the reason why it happened, what happened. So at some

114
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:42,320
point, the chef says, Paul, I think he started naming people, which kind of reminds me of this

115
00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:47,840
movie with Hitler kicks out everybody of the of the meeting room. So he started saying the names of

116
00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:53,920
the people who would say in the past, everybody else, get out of the kitchen. So I was the ones

117
00:10:53,920 --> 00:11:03,280
that that had to get out. So we were listening, like what was happening, you know? And how was

118
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:08,400
it exactly? Well, he was kind of like, you know, just standing at the pass with two chefs, you know,

119
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:13,440
one of which was Paul. And he was kind of just cursing to himself. He was like, everybody's

120
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,200
useless. Everybody's blind, just kind of like having this tirade while they were plating food,

121
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:21,360
right? These guys like mix it him just quiet, just plating the food. And he was just talking

122
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,040
to himself. He was like, these guys are just useless. They'll buy. Yeah, I'll do it myself.

123
00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,800
I'll do it. You, you and me. Well, we're going to do this, the two of us. Oh, and then he turns

124
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,280
around to Paul, he says, Oh, don't you want to do you also want to go out? And he says, Yes.

125
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:41,360
Why do you mean with jazz? And he was like, No, yes, not going out. Yes. What did you said before?

126
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:47,360
Because this is so hilarious. This poor guy just because he was so used to just being like,

127
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:52,400
chef saying something, you like, yes, chef, chef. And it's like, you want to go out? Also, yes. What

128
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:59,120
do you mean? Yes. No, I mean, yes. I mean, no. Yes. No. Sorry. Yeah, that was hilarious. Poor guy.

129
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:08,080
He was so nervous. That's it for this week's episode of potluck food talks. If you like what

130
00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:13,360
we're doing, make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. You can also find

131
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:18,880
us on Instagram and tik tok as potluck food talks. The show airs every Monday.