Hi everyone, welcome to Pot Luck Food Talks.
Today I'm with José Peláez who has a gastronomic background even though he works in something
completely different right now.
And we're going to talk about arepas.
Hi José.
Hey, hey, what's up Eric?
Thank you for the invite.
So what's the deal with arepas?
So just to put in context also, José is from Colombia and I'm from Venezuela and in both
countries this is a staple food, but they're quite different.
So what can you tell us about arepas?
When I knew that it was going to be the topic, the first thing I thought was that of course
its origin goes back to pre-colonial times, right?
Because corn is like the main cereal, the staple food around pre-colonial civilizations
in Central America and South America, mostly the north part of South America.
And it is the equivalent of like rice in Asia or wheat in Europe.
And it's been always like an important energy intake for long and intense physical work
hours, right?
And it is basically like our bread, right?
If you compare it to Europe, I would say it is like our bread.
And it's like as the Mexicans have the tortillas, the famous tortillas, in Colombia and Venezuela
we have the arepas, which are kind of similar, but they vary depending on the region and
they have different shapes, different ingredients, different thickness and so on.
But it's basically like, yeah, our tortillas or our bread, I would say.
When I met you and we started to talk about the difference between arepas, I didn't know
so much about Colombian arepas and also that they're very, very different from Venezuelans
and also the way they're eaten, the fillings and everything.
So perhaps we could go through that.
What kind of arepas do you have in Colombia?
Yeah, so actually there are like several types.
I would say there are probably more than 15 or even 20 types of arepas that come from
different regions along the country.
But you mean like the arepa or the filling is different?
No, the arepa, the arepa, because that's something also different that mostly your arepa in Venezuela
I think is like always filled.
I don't know if it is always, but in Colombia it's not always like that.
It's like filled arepa is one of the types.
And there are also different types of arepa that vary according to other ingredients that
they use in the dough.
Okay, so they can vary according to sometimes like secondary ingredients that are available
within, I guess, historically within those regions.
And some can have milk, egg, panela, which is this reduced raw cane sugar, juice, cheese
and other ingredients.
I don't know, plantain, potatoes, yuca, etc.
Like plantain, potatoes and yuca, I would say we don't have that in Venezuela.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's in a region, but I've never heard of that.
I think there should be, man, because the history of both countries is actually shared.
And I would say like in probably the most famous, let's say the export product from
Venezuela, which is now the Venezuelan arepa is the white corn filled arepa, right?
With different flavors that are filling.
Yeah.
But I would say there might be other types in small towns, small villages in the countryside.
The thing is that it is not very documented and we don't know, there's not much research
on it.
Yeah, that's very possible.
Yeah.
But as I said, I've never heard of it.
So I can quickly go through the arepas that we have in Venezuela.
Yeah, sure.
We have like the white, the standard one.
As you mentioned, when it's not filled in Venezuela, we call it viuda, widow.
Okay.
The widow.
Because it has no filling.
So that's the arepas you get like bread with food, like a basket filled with widow arepas.
Then we have variations with the flour.
There is a yellow flour, like a more brown integral flour.
In the Andean region, they make arepas with wheat flour, which is basically like a bread,
you know?
Technically it's not an arepa, but it's called like, and then we also have like a sweet one,
which is with star anise and that one is fried.
And you can get that for breakfast.
Like imagine having that with like a guava marmalade and fresh cheese.
Oh, nice.
I love them with the sweet combination, you know?
And I would say like arepa arepa without talking about the fillings, those are the ones I know.
Like I'm not a super expert, but probably like a super expert will tell me like a few
more that I didn't mention.
I'm not an expert either.
And actually there is this book by a Colombian chef and author is called Arepas Colombianas.
His name is Carlos Gaviria.
And he actually mentions in that book about 60 different preparations of arepas, right?
So and in each region there might be like a main arepa and then it has a different variations.
And I can mention also a couple of them that probably are the most famous ones.
So one of them is called the arepa paisa, which is from the, you know, the coffee farming
region where Medellin, the city is located.
And it is the one that looks more similar to a Mexican tortilla because it is like wide
and very flat, even though it's not as thin as that you can make like a taco or handle
it like that.
It is, it is crunchy and hard.
And you add that one, you add the topping on top, right?
And you put the topping on top.
Exactly.
So you eat it with, usually you put cheese, like fresh salty cheese.
And that's it.
It's like a very basic, like a giant canapé or like a thick taco or something like that.
Yeah.
And it's very, very delicious.
It's super typical.
And you also can use it as a, like when you're eating a main course with meat or any other
thing, but it is very tasty with like with fresh cheese and with a cup of chocolate,
a hot chocolate Colombian style, which is mostly like the Southern also similar to the
Mexican side, which is more liquid than the one we drink in Europe.
And that one is very, very tasty.
And actually in Europe, you find it in the, in the Latin stores, they sell it like frozen,
you know, and there's other type of arepa, which is called the arepa costena or arepa
huevo, which is, I would say one of the most curious one, because if you see the, the elaboration
process is quite like a...
That's the one where, where you operate the arepa.
Yeah.
It goes through a surgery process indeed.
Exactly.
So it is like you make the dough with yellow corn and you deep fry the arepa until it
pops.
And it creates the cavity of steam.
And when, just when you take it out, you open it, you open a little hole in the edge in
the side with a knife and you put a raw egg inside of the arepa.
Then you close it again, like you press it with your fingers to close it and you deep
fry it again.
So the egg cooks in the inside.
And the, the, also the, the whole seals, I guess.
Right.
Exactly.
It's from the Caribbean coast in Colombia and it's actually a street, it's a street
food.
So you go and you, you can find this girl with her trolley right on the street, deep
frying the arepas and making them this surgery process.
And they are very delicious.
They are very delicious.
That's like a super sophisticated technique for a, for a traditional dish.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Totally.
That's super great.
That's something curious about, I would say, popular cooking in, in, it's the same thing
with, with empanadas, you know, the empanadas is something like very, it takes a lot of
time putting like the filling and everything with the corn dough as well.
And this is quite sophisticated, the operation.
However, it is like a very popular street food.
In Venezuela as well, like empanadas opposite from many empanadas in South America, more
in the South or empanadas are made with arepa flour, I guess, same as yours.
And you get this, it's very typical.
If you go to the beach that you have like this street vendors walking around with a
pot full of empanadas and that's a very typical way to get it.
But also like, I would say in any school canteen, you have empanadas and something like you
find anywhere.
Yeah, same, same, same in Colombia, same in Colombia.
And I would say both arepas and empanadas are like the popular dish for, I don't know,
everywhere.
You mentioned the street vendors for the arepa de huevo, but what are the, the places and
moments of consumption in Colombia?
As I mentioned, the most common moment to have the arepa is for breakfast.
And it's also my favorite moment to have an arepa.
But the, but the places to mention a couple, like traditional style, very traditional popular
style is in, in the beach, by the beach in the Caribbean, you will find throughout the
whole day, a couple spots or a couple persons with their like trolleys and this umbrella
to go from the sun and frying the arepas and making them.
So it's like a to go arepa, you know, like you pass by and you buy it and you keep going,
you go to the beach or whatever you're doing.
Or for the local people, if they are working, they can have it mostly anytime, right?
But most of the people would buy it for breakfast, I would say.
However, there's also in the, in other sites of the country, like inland around like public
fairs, festivals, and these kinds of popular celebrations.
There are also people with small spots with the ember, you know, like charcoal ember and
cooking arepas on them.
Okay.
Other types, of course, this would be like probably an arepa paisa or an arepa from my
region, but it is with charcoal.
So you always have in mind that image of this lady with a manual fan on one hand, you know,
like moving it, keeping the ember alive and like in the, in the perfect spot.
And on the other hand, controlling the things that is on top, including the arepas, you
know.
That's curious, like in Venezuela, it's kind of different.
I would say when it's about street vendors that you find like whatever in the street
or as you say, in some kind of festival, it's usually, it's like, you know, like very street
food wise is usually arepas that are already cooked, probably brought from home.
And it's like a very simple sandwich.
It's nothing crazy, just the filling and that's it.
That's like the most street food style.
But then we have like areperas, which are like specialized restaurants on arepas.
And that's like a big thing.
As you mentioned, the most common moment is for breakfast, but it's also super common
to go to an arepera in the middle of-
For dinner.
Or the meat.
Like for munchies, like 3 a.m. after-
Yeah, that's true.
Super drunk and then you go to an arepera.
I would say like nowadays that's also typical in Colombia.
Probably not as popular as in Venezuela, I would say, but there are also like restaurant
chains that are like for filled arepas with different types of fillings.
Exactly, like in the areperas, that's the thing is that you go there and there are like
these vitrines with very different fillings that you pick whatever you want.
And the arepas from areperas are usually not always like different from the ones you eat
at home or at a restaurant.
They're much bigger.
They're almost like the diameter is like a burger.
Like a burger size, exactly.
And the fillings are more sophisticated.
And this is usually where you get like this famous like the reina pepia, which is-
Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that because I like about the Venezuelan arepas that the
fillings are like have a name.
So yeah, tell me a little bit about it.
Yeah, reina pepia is my favorite and of many people.
The story is somebody invented this like in the 50s and they named it after a beauty queen,
like Miss Venezuela.
Apparently, her nickname was the reina pepia, so they baptized this arepa after it.
And basically it's boiled chicken and then you make like this kind of Olivier salad,
just to describe it a little bit, but this avocado, mayo and a splash of Worcestershire.
That's it.
And man, that's so good.
That's delicious.
Yeah, I must say that here, even though I'm Colombian, I love making reina pepia also
because my girlfriend likes it very much.
And how I do it is I boil the chicken breasts and I put a couple of bay leaves and pepper
in the water and then shred it and do it exactly as you mentioned.
The thing is that here in, it's not that easy to find good avocados as you know.
Yeah.
But when you're lucky, yeah.
And we like to do it with handmade mayo.
Okay.
The way I've been doing it lately, I've been found in like the supermarket that they sell
the chicken breasts vacuum packed.
Okay.
And I cook it sous vide and then, so I get like the perfect cooking point for the chicken
so that it's still super juicy and it releases a lot of like chicken stock, you know?
And I add the whole thing to the mixture and it's amazing.
Wow.
Sounds delicious.
I'm hungry now, man.
And you know, one tip that I learned and I've been using it and it's good.
It's like you put the water to boil with the chicken breasts, right?
And the salt or whatever you want to add.
And when it boils, you turn it off, you put the lid on and leave it for 10 to 15 minutes,
depending on the site, like turned off.
And it gets this, it's not exactly the sous vide effect.
It keeps the breast juicy.
And when you cool it down and shred it, of course the texture is, it's nice to chew.
It's not like sandy in your mouth when a chicken breast is overcooked, but it's very on the
right point.
What I also do when I do that, when I cook it in a pot with water and everything, once
I don't add so much salt and the reason is when I take the chicken breast, exactly.
I reduce it until it's like a, and I add that to the mixture as well.
Delicious.
Then we have another one that it's called La Peluda, the hairy one.
That's black beans with Gouda cheese.
Oh yes.
Wait, what?
Gouda cheese.
No, sorry, sorry.
I'm wrong.
Sorry.
La Peluda is carne mechada.
Okay.
And there is another one called Domino, which is black beans with white shredded cheese.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
I've tried that one as well and I like it.
I like it very much.
Yes.
There is also in Colombia, like the other two that are famous is the arepagoyacense,
which is made with sweet corn and filled with fresh, a fresh cheese that is called cuajada.
That kind of, it's kind of a powder, not exactly a powder, but when you put a fork or something
on it, it goes apart very easily, the cheese and it's very tasty.
And there's one that is one of my favorite that is called Arepa Santanderiana from the
Northern region.
Actually part of Santander is on the limit with Venezuela and this arepa is very, very
crunchy made with peeled yellow corn.
And sometimes they add in the dough, like super crunchy pork chicharrón.
Chicharrón.
Yes.
I've seen that.
Yeah.
Super crunchy.
And sometimes they also add pork fat in the dough.
Yeah.
So imagine that taste.
Yeah.
That's genius.
Yeah.
It's delicious.
Arepa Santanderiana is one of the best.
Yeah.
I think.
Well, if you mentioned that this is near the border from Venezuela, probably there's also
a dialogue.
Yeah, definitely.
And so we have one in common and I think it's the one that is almost the same, but with
a different name is the cachapa, which may be for you.
I don't know if you consider that an arepa, but we call it arepa because we call it arepa
choclo.
Okay.
Yeah.
For us it's cachapa.
Yeah.
And actually, well, to explain cachapa is like, I would describe it as a yellow corn pancake.
Sweet corn, like tender.
Yeah.
And it's usually made like on, how do you say plancha?
Like real?
Yeah.
Very big, like big as a plate.
And in Venezuela, we usually eat it with fresh cheese.
Of course, that's the most basic one.
There are of course, modern variations with a lot of stuff and sauces and.
Yeah.
Our basic arepa choclo is also like that, it's with fresh cheese.
And I would say that's my favorite arepa, even though it's not the one I eat more often,
that is my favorite, like a good arepa choclo.
I love it.
And I love because it is very fatty.
It has a lot of butter in it.
And sometimes some variations add like panela within the dough as well.
I've personally cooked it before with adding panela because I like this, like add a little
bit more sweetness on top of the sweet corn that you're already using in the preparation.
And it's very, very delicious.
Definitely.
Yeah.
There's a place in Margarita Island called El Cimarron, and that's a place you go only
to eat cachapas where they grind the corn in front of you.
And you usually pair it with coca, which is kind of like a coconut milkshake we have.
And that's a.
It's a coconut milkshake, the coca.
Yeah, it's not drink.
Yeah.
Like interesting.
Yeah.
Like the cocoa pulp, you blend it with the cocoa water.
OK.
Yeah, so you have like this more like a smoothie because they add ice to it.
So you have like this frappe.
Like a frappe.
Yeah, exactly.
And then usually people add like a little bit of cinnamon on top.
And that's it.
Oh, nice.
Yeah, it's super nice.
It must taste good.
It's curious because what we call coca is something different.
It's like a popular sweet from the coastal areas made out of coconut and sugar.
Like a candy.
OK.
It's a candy.
Yeah, we have it's like brown.
Yes.
We have that too.
We call it conserva de coco.
OK, cool.
Yeah.
And that usually you see like ladies selling it in the beach.
And what's your actually I also told you my favorite.
My favorite is that the arepa choclo.
What's yours?
Well, just to mention arepas that we have mentioned because I would say reina pepeada,
of course.
But and also to mention nice places like in Venezuela, there is like this huge market
called Quinta Crespo.
It's a market where where, you know, like restaurants go to to get supplies like on
big sizes.
But also you can go as a normal person to get like good produce, good fish.
It's a big, big market.
And inside that market is a place called El Castillito.
And for me, it was always a ritual.
We would go to the market very, very early.
Like in some places I worked that I was helping with the supplies and they had two arepas
that are non-traditional at all.
I found these arepas in that place.
And one was like a chicharron arepa, but not as you would expect.
This chicharron was stewed.
It was like a chicharron stew.
Ah, yeah.
So it was soft like it was soft, not crunchy at all.
Yeah, exactly.
So you have like this imagine like kind of like a pork belly, bow, something like in
that direction.
It was like a Latin swing, you know.
OK.
And then we have another one they had that was also stewed.
I would go both every time.
The other one was a cut fish arepa.
Also super, super nice.
Yeah.
I haven't tried arepa with fish ever before.
Actually, that's new to me.
Well, in Venezuela also, like in these places that you go at 3 a.m. to get an arepa, you
get to see very crazy things, you know, like drunk people getting food.
You get this people like, yeah, put those quail eggs with mayo, with the octopus inside
of the arepa.
I think that's that that style is very, very nice that like you have a bar with different
options to fill it and you choose like put this and that and that.
We don't have that style.
Actually, when we go to arepa, besides those that I told you from these little trolleys
outside the fairs, those arepa are like arepa rellena, which is like filled arepa.
But there are very basic feelings, like three basics that you can mix.
So one is crunchy chicharrón, one is the one is the ropa vieja, the shredded meat,
and one is the shredded chicken.
And they all put like this base sauce that is very typical in Colombia called ogao, which
is like a like an onion and tomatoes stir fry.
And some people put garlic, some people put cumin on it.
And there is this sauce, which is like a basic sauce you find on every table in a popular
cafeteria.
You put it also on the arepas.
Yeah, yeah.
We have we usually have like two sauces that you will find in any arepa.
We have guasacaca.
Ah, the guasacaca.
Yeah, I like that one.
Yeah, and hot sauce.
Like any kind of mojo that is so spicy, you will find the variations of that anywhere.
Yeah, nice, nice, nice.
So when was the last time you ate arepa?
Can you remember?
No, no, not really.
Like like a long time ago.
I can't tell.
Yeah, probably.
Last time I was in Barcelona.
Yeah, I went there.
Yeah, there is this place.
Oh, man, I forgot.
La Poderosa is a place.
Yeah, like in Raval.
And they were doing arepas and empanadas margarita style, which is like a specific type of empanadas
and arepas, and I remember going there and really have like a mine teleportation to
a beach and margarita.
Wow, nice.
That's nice.
Actually, talking about that transportation, because I would say that to us arepas is something
very symbolic.
It's kind of a ritual that brings you back to childhood, brings you back to your origins.
So last time I ate was last week because I had my cousins visiting at my place.
One of them lives in London, another one in Paris.
So since we're getting together for a way to remember, it's like we I cooked arepas
for breakfast.
You know, I made the dough and everything.
And yeah, it's very nice to bring that because that brings you back to childhood and very
nice moments in the in the past.
Yeah.
And also something I wanted to mention in these areperas, it's very common to have like fruit
juices as a as a pairing for your arepa, like mango juice or papaya juice or guava juice,
this kind of uses.
And then also another arepa I forgot to mention that really reminds me of my childhood, like
in the very west of Venezuela.
And they do this arepas where you add, we call it suero.
It's like a sour cream.
It's exactly like that.
Yeah, it's fermented cream.
I love that.
The combination is so nice.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
And also something I wanted to ask you, like the way I've known arepas and I have to say
that in my house being having European parents, it was not a staple food.
It was something we would do once in a while.
My connection with arepas was more like in school canteens or restaurants or this kind
of stuff or when I was at friends and these kind of things.
In Venezuela, I would say by default, if you do arepas, you will do it with the arena or
the pre-cooked corn flour.
And that's something that I know that was invented in Venezuela.
And then it was like spread in the different arepa eating countries.
But you've told me one that you also do, you'll see very commonly freshly ground.
Yeah, milk.
Actually, these small trolleys and spots like street vendors that I told you, I would say
that many of them do the dough with cooked and milled, like processed manually.
It's like a manual machine that you spin this handle.
Like this manual or manual milk grinder or something like that.
It's like a grinder and you spill with one hand rotating it and you put the cooked corn
on top of it.
And on the bottom, there is this like processed corn coming out.
And that is already the dough, the arepa dough.
You see that with cachapas, like this place I mentioned in Margarita, they have like this
like electric machines where they do exactly that with yellow corn and then you do the
cachapa like that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
And I would say nowadays you also find the corn flour, like precooked corn flour and
the way I prepare them at home because I do quite often is like that.
Of course, I don't have the time or the space to cook the corn.
First of all, I will have to get the corn.
So yeah, logistics are difficult, but people at homes, they also use precooked corn flour.
So yes.
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