Thank you for listening to this message from
Lifehouse Church. Good morning, good morning.
Listen, turn to somebody, give them a high five.
Tell them good to see you at Lifehouse. High
fives all around the house. Amen. It's good to
have you. Hey, you sang great this morning. I
could hear your voices coming and coming forth
from the back. And I love that. Love hearing
the praise and the worship going up to the Lord.
And I got to tell you, we got to celebrate just
for a second. I don't know if you noticed over
here. That's a very exciting tank over there.
Those green balls represent invitations of people
coming to church. But this one's even more exciting
because this is souls that got saved this week.
Amen. Two in a tank. Come on, give them glory.
Heaven celebrate. We should celebrate with them.
Amen. We were rejoicing before. We're going to
rejoice during and after. That's really what
this is all about. It's about reaching people
for Jesus and people rising up in Christ as believers
and followers of Christ. But I want to continue
on with this message series called Salty. Say
salty. Salty. You want to have it in your spirit.
Stephen Covey said this. He's the author of Seven
Habits. Let me say that again. Most people don't
listen with the intent to understand. Most people
listen with the intent to reply. We will not
effectively lead those who are far from God to
Christ unless we are listening. to understand
and not just simply reply to them, right? If
we're not listening to understand who they are
and what they're about, and we're just there
to get ready for the next reply that we have.
Proverbs 2 .2 says this, making your ear attentive
to wisdom and inclining your heart to understanding,
right? Yes, if you call out for the insight and
raise your voice for understanding. In conversation,
when you're talking with someone, it's about
hearing and understanding. It's about listening
with the primary intent of understanding what
the other person is saying. I need to understand
what you're saying, right? And you need to understand
what I'm saying. I need to know where you're
coming from, even if we don't agree. We need
to know where we're coming from. We need to discern
the motive, right? And the thoughts and what
you're really trying to convey. And once I understand
what you're saying, then it's a good time to
reply. It really is. Turn to the person sitting
beside you. Tell them, I'm trying to understand
you. I'm trying to understand you. Just tell
them, I'm trying to, right? My heart is. I'm
trying to understand you. I have to learn to
listen to understand the person that's sitting
beside me, the person that I'm talking to, the
person that I'm walking with and in a conversation
with. And if I don't listen with that intent
of trying to understand, it's going to hinder
the effectiveness of sharing the... gospel with
someone. I'm not going to get a great invite
with somebody if I'm not listening to somebody
enough to understand him. It'll hinder my effectiveness
when I speak with somebody one -on -one, face
-to -face. It'll cause me just to shoot from
the hip with an answer. Amen? How many of you
ever just shoot from the hip with an answer?
You're just ready, right? You're just ready to
go when somebody says something, right? I'll
just fire something back just to make sure I
stay in the conversation. And it's not until
I listen with the intent of understanding that
I really start to understand what it is to be
salt and light for Jesus. What it is to really
come forward and give that other person something
to hear, something worth listening to, and honestly
to understand where they're coming from. And
I'm going to be honest with you, this message
is both convincing, and convicting for me personally,
because I'm a person who can shoot back pretty
quick. I can get in a conversation with somebody,
and I can fire back in a heartbeat. How many
are with me out there? How many are like, you
got no problem in a conversation? All right,
about eight of you. Are the rest, come on, how
many? It's true, right? There we go. That's what
I thought. Thank you for being honest, finally.
Okay, you're quick to give an answer. You're
ready with a reply, right? You can just fire
right off. And that's not everybody, but some
of us just engage in a quick heartbeat. And before
we understand, before we fully listen, before
we get what's taking place, right, we're just
firing back. And if I'm gonna be salty for Jesus,
if I'm really gonna shine bright, right, taste
flavorful for him, I got to understand the person
I'm listening to. I got to understand where they're
coming from. I need to be salty. Now, listen,
I want to throw this acrostic up there. That's
what this message series is based on. If you
guys would put that up on the screen, salty,
right? First week we preached and talked and
walked through it together. It was start a conversation.
Say start a conversation. Right. Second week
was ask a question. Ask a question. Say it. Ask
a question. Now it's listen. And not just listen,
but listen to understand and not to simply reply.
It's about understanding you so I can be genuine
salt in your life. Our theme scripture has been
Matthew 5 .13. You are the salt of the earth.
But if the salt has lost its taste, how shall
its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good
for anything except to be thrown out and trampled
under people's feet. You are the light of the
world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden,
nor do people light a lamp and put it under a
basket but on a lampstand. And it gives light
to who are in a house. In the same way, let your
light shine before others that they might see
your good deeds, right, and give glory to your
Father who is in heaven. We listen to understand
so we can reply well and so people can look past
us and see him. Listen to understand and not
just reply. Proverbs 10, 18, 15 says, an intelligent
heart. Now I know I'm looking out amongst you,
you look like an intelligent bunch, all right?
An intelligent heart acquires knowledge. And
the ear of the wise seeks knowledge. James 1
.19 says this. Know this, my beloved brothers.
Let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak,
and slow to anger. James 1 .19 confirms something
that I've heard since I was growing up as a kid.
I've heard it as an adult, right? And I don't
know if you've heard this phrase before or not,
but probably you have somewhere along the way.
The good Lord gave you two ears and one mouth
for a reason. Amen? How many of you ever heard
that before? The rest of you write it down, okay?
The Lord gave you two ears and one mouth for
a reason. Check it out with the person next to
you. Check it out, go ahead right now. They got
two ears and one mouth, I'm pretty sure, all
right? If not, don't say anything, right? If
they only got one ear, whatever. But two ears,
one mouth. You gotta do the math when you're
thinking about listening to somebody else, all
right? You gotta do the math. Maybe we should
be listening twice as much, right, as we're speaking.
Maybe we should take twice as long in the listening
process as we are in the speaking process. Maybe
I need to use both sides of my head, my left
brain and my right brain, to engage when I'm
in the listening process with somebody else.
Before something spills out of my mouth, before
I just engage and regurgitate whatever idea or
thought pops into my head, I need to listen so
closely to you that I can actually hear your
heartbeat. How many of us are listening pretty
close, right? I need to listen so close to you
that I can hear your heartbeat. I can hear what
you're saying. Almost a spiritual stethoscope
of sorts. What if I was listening so close that
I could hear what's really pumping through your
veins? What's really pumping and coursing through
your life? What if I listened like that? What
if I listened so much that it was similar going
to the doctors? How many of you have been to
the doctor in the last week or two? Raise your
hand if you have. All right, don't be ashamed.
It's okay, we all go. All right, when you go
to the doctors, right, there's a listening process
that takes place. And anytime I've gone to the
doctors for an exam, It's kind of the same, right?
I'll go in, I check in. I always go to the registration.
Now I'm saying, I'm Mr. Penrod. I'm here for
an appointment, right? You're here 250. They're
like, okay, great. Have a seat. And then always,
almost typically always, there's a nice nurse,
right? Almost a nice looking nurse there for
a second. That was weird, honey. That was a joke.
I don't even know what that was. A nice nurse
comes out, right? Takes you back to a room. And
they do the same things, right? They slide the
cuff on you. They're checking your blood pressure,
right? They take it. They stick a thermometer
in your mouth, tell you to stick it under your
tongue. They take all your vitals. They ask you
a couple questions. And then they take you into
the room where the doctor's going to examine
you. They set you up on that rectangle table
that always has the crunchy paper. I don't know
why it's crunchy, right? It's always crunchy.
You set you up on that rectangle table. And they
say, the doctor's going to be right with you
in a few minutes. They close the door. 30 to
45 minutes later, when they should be checking
your blood pressure, the doctor comes in. 30,
40 minutes later, after you played with all the
gadgets that are in that room, how many of you
have taken the colon or the heart apart, right?
The plastic one that's laying on the countertop.
See what it is. Nobody else. I do that. All right.
You know, you get up and read every poster that's
there. You're there, right? And finally, the
doctor will do a little knock on the door. The
doctor walks in, and they say, well, hi, I'm
Dr. So -and -so, right? It's kind of the routine
they do. And they begin, you know, hi, Mr. Penrod,
I'm Dr. So -and -so. and so, and they begin to
ask questions. They begin to say, you know, why
are you here today, Mr. Penrod? And you start
to unfold, right? What's bothering you today?
What seems to be the issue? And the doctor asks
a few questions and they're standing there usually
with a pad, an iPad or a marker or something,
right? Pen and paper. And they start writing
things out. They stop and they begin to listen.
They ask the question, they begin to listen,
and as you begin to unfold, what's going on in
your life? What's the difficulty, right? What's
the frustration? What's the problem that you
currently have at the moment, right? They want
to understand your symptoms. They want to understand
your pain. They want to understand what the struggle
is in your life, and they listen. They listen
intently. What if your next meeting with someone,
look something like that. And they even go a
step further than that. Usually at the end of
the question, they say, you know what, we need
to check your lungs and we need to check your
heart. And they come up close and they put in
a stethoscope and they tell you to breathe in
and they listen. And you breathe out. And they
listen for your heartbeat. Before I try to fix
somebody's issues, before I start spewing something
out of my mouth that might be preconceived or
an idea or something I heard in a reach somebody
for Jesus seminar somewhere, right? I need to
hear what's going on. I need to hear what their
heartbeat is. What if I listened to the point
where I could hear their heartbeat? What if I
knew what they loved and what they hated? What
if I understood the pain that they've been walking
through, the struggle that they're in? What if
I knew what they believed and what they didn't
believe before I even started into a conversation
with them? My knowledge needs to increase in
the listening. It really does. Proverbs 18, 15
said it, an intelligent heart acquires knowledge.
And that happens in the listen. Listen to understand,
not just reply, right? Listen for what's beating
underneath the surface. I mean, the first couple
of minutes in a conversation is rarely what's
happening under the surface, right? We all got
it down. Hey, how you doing? Good. What's going
on today? I'm awesome. You know, how about the
weather? right? Or whatever's latest in sports,
whatever's happening in the news. But he got
to get beyond that. What's the heartbeat? What's
the heartbeat of the person sitting beside you
right now? If you had time to listen to what
they have, right? I remember years ago, I was
a youth pastor. This was many years ago when
I was youth pastoring. And it was one of the
first time full -time positions I got. It was
actually the first full -time position I had
as a youth pastor. I had been a part -time many,
many years and got this opportunity to be a full
-time youth pastor. And I remember going to this
church and it was a different culture than where
I came from. And I remember doing things just
like I always did where I came from. And I would
preach and I would teach. And I remember doing
this for months. And these young people, it was
kind of like. Nothing, right? I'd be preaching,
teaching my heart out. All those kinds of things
are like just nothing. Seemed like nothing was
changing with these kids. Nothing was happening.
And I remember getting so frustrated that one
day I decided, you know what? I'm coming into
youth group. I'm not preaching. I'm not teaching.
We're just gonna sit down. I got a bunch of beanbags
out. We sat down and I just started asking questions.
For a couple of weeks, I asked questions. I just
left them talk. I wanted to hear where they were.
And I was shocked. These were church kids. I
was shocked what they believed. I was shocked
how they thought about things. I was shocked.
But you know what happened? I find out where
they were. I find out who they were, what their
heartbeat was, what they believed and didn't
believe. You got to stop it. Good listening means
you stop and you hear their heartbeat. It's true.
If you look up, listen. If you look that word
up, it actually comes from two Anglo -Saxon words.
One means hearing, right? Which is kind of a
synonym. And the other means to wait in suspense.
That's what it means. Good listening means that
I wait in suspense as I listen to you, right?
It's a posture thing. When I'm coming to get
into a conversation with you, I listen with great
suspense. Good listening means I wait. I can't
hardly wait to hear what you have to say. I'm
suspenseful about what's going to come out of
your mouth next, right? There's an air of excitement
in the conversation. Like, what are you going
to bring me? What are you going to throw at me?
There's an anticipation that takes place that
you're going to about to say something and it's
important. And I want to hear what you have to
say. It's fully engaged. It's fully attentive.
It's zeroed in on. you and what you're saying.
And so much so that they should actually notice
that. Amen? It's true. They should notice it.
You know, it's eye -to -eye engaged conversation.
It's not somebody on their phone. Did you ever
talk to somebody and they're on their phone?
Uh -huh. Uh -huh. That happen this morning to
anybody? Right? It's half -heartedly nodding
at somebody, and that's not engaged. That's not
listening to somebody with anticipation. Or they're
looking at the sky, or they're looking down at
the ground while they're talking with you, right?
Arms crossed. They're talking to somebody with
their arms crossed, and you're in conversation
with them, and you're like, it's kind of like
back off, just go away, right? Can you hurry
up and get it done? Right? Not that kind of conversation.
It's suspense. You know, when I thought about
this, I thought about talking to a teenager.
If you've ever had teenagers in your house and
you have a conversation with them, yeah, somebody's
raising their hands already back. They're like,
amen, right? You ever see a teenager do that?
They're rolling their eyes while you're talking
to them. They grab their arm. How many of you
know as a parent, the spirit of slap comes on
you right about that moment? You don't really
do it. You wonder what it would feel like if
you would, right? You don't really do it, but
the spirit of slap comes all over you. All right,
come on. It's true. We should come into conversations,
though, with suspense. We should come in wanting
to know what they're thinking and what their
heart is. Now, I need to clarify something here.
Just because you're listening to somebody with
great suspense and you're looking them eye to
eye does not mean that you agree with them. All
right? I need to clarify that. I can be fully
engaged in a conversation. I can be locked on
listening to the other person intently, but that
does not mean that I agree with what they're
saying. Sooner or later in a conversation, I'm
gonna respond. Sooner or later, I'm gonna get
the opportunity to move them to Jesus, to move
them to the truth, to move them to what God's
word says. And there's a chance I may disagree
with them. Right? I can listen suspensibly. And
listen, you never, ever compromise the word of
God. You never, ever compromise the truth when
you're in a conversation. You can listen. You
can be engaged. But when it's your turn to speak,
you start moving them towards Christ. You start
moving them towards the truth. You've got to
do that in a conversation. How many of you think
silence can be interpreted as acceptance? Yeah,
you get in a conversation. Matter of fact, you
listen intently, you listen suspensively, but
if you listen and you don't say anything that's
contrary to something that you know is a lie,
you know something that's not the truth, sometimes
silence, and most of the time, silence can be
interpreted as acceptance, agreement even, right?
When we come into the conversation, we dive in.
We listen to what they're saying. We're looking
for their heartbeat. We want to hear where they
are, but that doesn't mean we don't respond.
We do it respectfully, but we do it boldly, right?
We come with the truth. And I'm here to tell
you, when we come. Come with a heart. Think along
those lines. When I come into the next conversation,
I want to hear their heartbeat. If you've got
to, think about a spiritual stethoscope hanging
on you. I want to hear what they've got to say.
I'm going to engage. I'm going to walk on. And
you might say, well, why is this so important?
Especially if you're talking to somebody that
you know isn't speaking truth. Especially if
you're talking to somebody that you know you're
not going to agree with. Why in the world is
this so important to engage this way? Why is
this so important to being salty, right? And
here's the answer to that. Because if I don't
know what street they are on, how am I ever going
to get them to the right street? If I don't know
what street they are on, how am I ever going
to get them to Jesus Street, right? I have to
know where they're at before I can ever give
them direction to get where they need to go.
I don't know if you've ever had somebody call
you and ask for directions to your house, right?
You ever tell somebody to come over to your house
and they get lost getting there? You know, they're
on the way over. They get lost. They're 20 minutes
late. The phone rings, and you're like, hello?
And they're like, well, I'm trying to get to
your house, but I'm lost. What's the first thing
you say to them? Thank you. Where are you, right?
Where are you? And they're like, I don't know.
That's why I'm lost. What street sign do you
see? I'm on A Street. I'm on C, right? Or I don't
see a street. Well, what landmark do you see?
Do you see a tall building or are you in a grassy
field? What do you see around you, right? What's
there? And you're like, whoa, it's just grassy.
Do you see a brown house or a white house? Do
you see a green house or a red house? You start
asking questions. You start trying. You start
the conversation. You start asking questions.
Where are you? Because I can't get you to my
street if I don't know what street you're on,
right? Can't do it. It's hard to get someone
to Jesus Street if you don't even know what street
they're parked on, if you don't even know where
they are, right? You got to listen to understand.
We got to, if I'm going to understand where you
are and I want to help you get somewhere different,
I got to know where you're at. It's beneficial
to understand where they are. It's beneficial
to know what landmarks they've seen in their
life. It's beneficial to know, right, the history
with the person. It's beneficial. We need a starting
point. We need to know where they at. If you're
going to be GPS for Jesus, I'm going to get a
t -shirt made like that, right? If you're going
to be GPS for Jesus, you've got to know what
street they're on. Because they could be on any
number of streets. They really could. As a matter
of fact, they currently, it could be that right
now they're driving up Confusion Street and they
don't really know what they believe. They don't
really understand. They've not really thought
about spiritual things. Or it could be that they
put it in reverse and they backed into an alley
called Bitterness, which is a very different
direction to get somebody out, right? They could
have backed into Bitterness. They could be cruising
down a street called Indifference. They could
be flying up a road of seeking of some kind.
They could be stuck in traffic on a street called
Angry. How many know that happens when you're
stuck in traffic, right? They could be stuck
in anger. They might be broke down alongside
of the road. Broken. Broken. They could be creeping
along with good intentions. They could be swerving
all over the place, right, with evil intent in
their heart. You've got to find out where they
are. You gotta understand who you're talking
to. You're never gonna get them to Jesus Street
if you don't even know where they're at. Amen?
I need to suspensively listen. I need to know
where they are. I remember a conversation I got
into with a young man and... Him and I, I knew
right off the bat, as soon as we started the
conversation, that him and I were in two different
camps, right? I knew he wasn't in the same place.
He wasn't gonna say the same things. I was thinking
and vice versa. But I remember having this conversation
with this young man and I came into the conversation
knowing that we were gonna be in different places.
I knew that just going into the conversation.
So we did the pleasantries and hey, how you doing?
And then I remember asking him a question, something
along the lines of, what do you believe about
God? You know, what do you believe about God?
Who do you believe God is? And I asked one or
two probing questions like that, and then I just
got quiet. And I listened for 45 minutes as this
young man began to unload what he believed about
God. And I can tell you, I learned a whole bunch
of things about that young man as he unfolded
what he believed, why he believed. I remember
hearing the pain in his voice from his past.
in his history, in his young life. I remember
hearing that pain. I remember how he began to
talk about how he had pulled all these ideas
from different places and spaces of life to culminate
together to build his own belief system of some
kind. I remember hearing where he's at and how
he felt passionately about certain things, right?
And I began to understand the street that he
was parked on because I took enough time just
to listen, to hear his heart. And I'd love to
tell you, you know, after he got done talking
and I began to explain to him that I didn't believe
what he believed in and I didn't agree with what
he believed was truth. And we had this respectful
conversation. I'd love to tell you, I got him
on Jesus street that day. I didn't. He declined
what I brought to him. He's like, I don't believe
what you believe. And I said, I understand that.
And we talked and we challenged one another.
And we had that discussion. Did I get him to
Jesus Street that day? No, I did not. But I think
he's one step closer to Jesus Street. At least
challenged his ideas. At least got to a place
where I understood where he was coming from,
right? I would have loved to say I got there.
And I've seen him multiple times since then.
And he'll always run up to me out in public.
We had this great conversation. I remember we
parted ways, friends and buddies, right? And
anytime he sees me out in public, he runs up
and greets me. And we talk together. And I pray
that somebody speaks into his life. I pray that
somebody gets him over to Jesus Street at some
point. Maybe I'll get an opportunity again. I
don't know. He's not here in this place, but
I hope I get the opportunity. Our job is not
to come preaching and hammering people. Our job,
right, is to start a conversation. You need to
start asking questions and then you need to listen.
We need to listen so we can be salt and light.
As the worship team comes, Proverbs 18, 13 says
this, he who answers a matter before he hears
it, it is folly and shame to him. You gotta listen.
You gotta listen. Don't answer till you hear
some heart. Don't answer till you get some answers,
right? I'm gonna give you one last thing as the
worship team comes. I'm gonna give you one last
thing in this listening process. I want you to
listen while you listen, all right? I know it
sounds intense, right? Listen while you listen.
How many of you have ever listened to something
while you were listening to something else? Raise
your hand if that's you. How many of you hate
to listen to something? Two things at the same
time, okay? Some of you are like, it's awful,
right? Some of you that have kids and children
in here, right? You have multiple children. You're
like, you don't understand. That's my way of
life, all right? I listen while I listen, while
I listen, while I listen all the time, all right?
And some of you are like, I hate listening to
two things. I don't like the TV and the radio
on at the same time. Drives me completely crazy,
right? I go buggy out of my mind. I gotta go
shut one of those things off just so one thing's
playing, right? I got five grandchildren. You
get five grandchildren, in one car, five iPads
going at the same time, right? Jesus prays and
worship music on the radio, and they're all talking
at the same time. My brain goes blanko, brother,
just white, just white noise. I don't even know
what's going on. I don't even know what state
I'm in, you know, when I'm driving. It's true.
Right? And it's really not that kind of listening
I'm talking about. But the reality is we all
listen while we listen. God has given us, each
one of us, the ability to listen while we listen.
Every person, when you get into a conversation,
and I know all of you have done this, how many
sometimes you listen into yourself while you're
in a conversation listening to somebody else,
right? Somebody is on the other side talking
to you and they're like, you know, man, they're
pouring their heart out about something that's
been really difficult in their life. And my mom
rejected me. And, you know, and I just don't
know what to do with all this. And you're nodding
and you're thinking, you know, I really don't
like this vanilla creamer that's in my coffee.
You know, they're pouring out their childhood
and the things that they went through. And you're
like, you know, I think I'm going to try caramel.
The next time in my coffee. And I think I saw
that on sale at Giant, right? You know, I heard
about a new stuff. This stuff, this vanilla stuff
is kind of leaving an aftertaste. And they're
pouring their heart out. They're like, you don't
understand what I've been through. You know,
you're having this conversation in your head,
you know, do I have a coupon? I think I have
a coupon. I'm going to stop at Giant on the way
home after this conversation. We have conversations
with ourselves during that. But if you get in
a conversation where you're trying to get somebody
to Jesus Street, If you're going to have a conversation
inside of your head, turn yourself off and turn
the Holy Spirit on. Amen? You can do it. God's
given you the ability. But when you're in a conversation
with someone else, don't be thinking about coffee
creamer and don't even listen to yourself. You
need to invite Holy Spirit into the conversation
and say, Holy Spirit, I need you speaking in
my mind right now as I'm talking with someone
else. I need you guiding the conversation while
I'm chatting it up with someone else. I need
you in this conversation. I need you to speak
to me while I'm listening. I need to listen while
I'm listening so I know what to say when it does
finally come time to speak, right? I need you
to counsel me and give me wisdom. Can't tell
you how many times I've been on the way to the
hospital to meet somebody, and I'm praying the
whole way there. I don't know why, you know,
when we get in an intense situation like that
where there's an emergency, we do that, right?
But if it's everyday life, we're like, eh, I'm
going to think about coffee creamer instead.
But you get in that conversation that might be
a Jesus conversation, start praying. Under your
breath, right? Now, don't do it right in front
of them because they're not going to know what's
going on. I'm talking in your head, in your mind,
right? Just Holy Spirit, I need you to help me
right now. I need you to speak to me. I'm gonna
ask you to stand this morning. Here's what I
know about the Holy Spirit that is such a big
help when you get in that conversation and you're
listening while you're listening. The Holy Spirit
knows a person's history. He knows their hurts.
He knows their bias. He knows their fears. He
knows their background. He knows their philosophy.
He knows whether they have an evil heart or a
good heart. He knows what that person needs to
go from this street to the next that's one street
closer to Jesus. He knows the right words that
you need to speak that might open their heart
up for the gospel, right? He might know what's
blocking them from hearing the gospel. He might
explain to you and help you walk them down a
street where they feel God's conviction in their
life for the first time. He knows all of that.
All you know is what you've gleaned from the
couple questions you asked. You've got to partner
up. Right? You've got to partner up with the
Holy Spirit. Let Him speak to you in the conversation.
Start the conversation. Ask a question. Listen.
Be there with great suspense. Gain knowledge
in the conversation. Figure out what street they're
on. Then get Holy Spirit with you. He is the
Jesus GPS. He is, right? to this message from
Lifehouse Church. We pray that you were impacted
powerfully by this message. If you have been
personally affected by our ministry and you would
like to partner with us as we love God, love
people every day, visit our website at