Episode 8 Season 2 
The moderator of this episode is the Scientific Director of the Canadian Society of Nutrition, Ms. Shirin Panahi, who will be talking to Professor Sophie Desroches in episode 8, season 2 of Conversations in Nutrition about misinformation in nutrition on social networks.

Shirin (01:09.274)
Hello to the audience of Conversation in Nutrition. Food and nutrition is popular in the media and social networks. The presence of media has created new opportunities for qualified or accredited scientific communities to communicate with their customers and the public. But it has also created challenges.

In this episode, have the pleasure of talking with Dr. Sophie Desroches, a professor the titular and dietetics at the University of Laval. Her research aims to identify strategies for transfer of knowledge into nutrition and to promote their implantation in the clinical of dietetics.

The most recent research carried in her team focuses on use of as strategy for knowledge transfer in areas related to habits, including nutrition. She also various courses on the clinical of dieticians, chronic and nutrition,

Shirin (02:30.556)
An excellent course on nutritional at the University of Laval, as I had the pleasure of presenting. Professor Desroches loves yoga, walking, reading, discovering new restaurants, cooking and browsing social to see what is said about habits. With that, I wish you warm welcome to episode 8 Season 2 of Conversations in Nutrition.

Sophie Desroches (03:01.53)
Thank you very Sharon, the introduction.

Shirin (03:04.272)
Thank you for your presentation. It seems like you are very active in your life. I find the subject of nutrition very interesting and, of relevant nowadays. But before we dive into the subject of nutrition I would to know little more about you.

Shirin (03:30.36)
You are a researcher with a very fascinating But how did you decide to get into this field of research?

Sophie Desroches (03:42.242)
In fact, was produced gradually and probably through the accumulation of different experiences that I had in work, but also at level of research. I don't necessarily have very linear so I've done several things in the past. So during my graduate in management and in nutrition, I worked on projects that helped me better understand

how different food or types food exert their effect on health, say on biochemical metabolism of the lipids, etc. So I wanted to understand better as a nutritionist, when we recommendations, is it really effective and at what level we observe the effects of these different food I also wanted to demystify the laboratory, so that was done during my graduate

And in to my studies, I also worked as a clinical in hospital I also worked in public and all of this allowed me to see that even if I had seen in my studies that nutrition was really effective to have an impact on health, there were a lot of problems with the of adherence to nutritional both nutritional and population and in a more individual such as in...

So I was interested in the recommendation it led me to do a postdoctoral in the field of knowledge where we worked, among other the decision -making, which is a knowledge transfer where we involve more patients in decisions that concern their health. So by involving more people, it allows us have

a better adhesion to recommendations because they feel more concerned giving recommendations without worrying about their value, their preferences and all that. Then the other knowledge transfer that interested me was social Because I saw an interest in nutritionists to share their knowledge, establish a contact with the population, try to understand maybe more what are barriers, the factors that facilitate adhesion.

Sophie Desroches (06:05.818)
Since in social we can communicate with people, so it's very interactive as a type of knowledge transfer Then, in my interest in this field, we developed research projects, first all, on nutrition So it was in the 2012 -2013, so blogs were very popular. And we tried to develop blogs that were

the most optimal possible, so that responded to the needs of people who consulted this type of resource. So we interviewed people to find what the content they preferred in the blogs and also what kind of information they wanted nutritionists to with them, and even the tone, the language type, and also visually, what they preferred see in the blogs, what they wanted to in the videos, for example.

So we tried to build a perfect to help nutritionists develop their own blog. And over time, realized that blogs were less read, less of interest for the population. And then were other social media So, do studies on this subject...

c 'est un peu difficile parce que les médias sociaux, ce sont des cibles mouvantes. Donc il y a toujours de nouveaux types de médias sociaux, de nouvelles plateformes et selon l 'âge des gens, par exemple, ils vont préférer une plateforme versus une autre. Donc ça pouvait être peut -être contre -productif d 'essayer de créer la meilleure plateforme possible parce qu 'il y en avait tellement et c 'était un domaine qui bougeait beaucoup. Donc on...

Following our blogs, we realized that the lack of knowledge in this field was really to help people navigate through all these platforms where is an overabundance of information, to help them search or find information that would be relevant to them and that they could apply in their lives.

Sophie Desroches (08:21.484)
in the ultimate of improving their nutritional recommendation. So it's a bit of long journey that led me to work more on disinformation. So it was no longer the goal of giving nutritionists to create the best platform, but rather to help people navigate through these tools and perhaps to go further towards platforms that would be more credible, such as nutritionists or nutrition researchers.

Shirin (08:51.746)
Super. So your passion for communication and transfer of knowledge is very clear and really inspiring. Now that we know a little better about your journey, we will dive into depth of the subject. Disinformation in nutrition is a complex that has become even more widespread with the rise of social

We often hear about disinformation and misinformation, but the terms can lead to confusion. I know that in English, for example, we have three terms. We say misinformation, disinformation and malinformation. But I noticed that in French there are two. You can correct me. But can you explain a little bit difference between some of these terms?

Sophie Desroches (09:47.354)
Yes, fact, it's a field that has for long time, so it seems that it has been the 1500 years, so it's been a while, but you're right to say that we've been more more about it for the last few years. So there are different definitions, but generally, like, for example, the Canadian Center for Cybersecurity.

will propose three types of information dissemination that can cause harm. So the first is misinformation. So the definition is that it would be false information that would be spread but without bad intentions. So the person is bad information without knowing that it is not the right information. So maybe by a lack of knowledge, a lack of...

of education on a particular The misinformation would be false information that is spread but aimed at cheating or manipulating someone. So we share false information, but we know it's not good information. And finally, misinformation would be information that is factual, so good information. But definitions don't always on that theme. So either the good information is exaggerated.

So, in a way wrong or harmful, or it is used in a bad context. So, generally, we see lot in English, misinformation, is perhaps the term that most often used, because it seems that the definition that is used in English is false information with or without bad intentions. So, it's a term that more global. In French, will use more often disinformation to talk about all these terms.

And again, fact, it's a subject of study, the terms, to talk about this phenomenon. There is a recent scoping review, so an exam of the range in French, which was carried out, in 2023, where they listed in several studies all the terms that were related to disinformation, and they also the definitions that were given, that were given from these different terms.

Sophie Desroches (12:12.342)
What they concluded is that there inconsistencies in the definitions that are given for each of these terms, but that overall we agree that it is a information and it is very difficult to know whether the intention was good or not. So usually we will simply that it false So we talk, as I said earlier, if we do a recapitulation, during the day we talk lot about misinformation.

In French, we will use most of the information. We always talk about fake news with or without intention of causing harm.

Shirin (12:53.016)
Thank for the clarification. Sorry for my French. In my readings on this subject, I also came across the term infodemiology. I had never heard of it. Could you also explain to what it and maybe in the context of nutrition?

Sophie Desroches (13:14.842)
Yes, fact, infodemiology is a bit like the epidemiology of disinformation. So in this sense, it is study of determinants and the distribution of information, misinformation and disinformation. We hear more about since the COVID -19 infodemiology, but it still a term that emerged at beginning of 2000s, 2002 if I'm not

by a researcher named Gunther Eisenbach, who is a pioneer in field of infodemiology. It is thanks to this science that can now better distinguish the different terms that we talked about in the previous question. In field of nutrition, it can allow us understand the effects of overabundance of information and misinformation. It allows to understand, for example, where the information from.

on which platform it circulates, are there accounts, types of accounts on social media platforms that would be more likely to share this type of information. So it's really a study of the information that circulates and the determinants of this phenomenon. So can apply to any health including nutrition. So there are not so many studies that talk about info from biologists.

and nutrition, but I'm convinced that it will develop in the coming years.

Shirin (14:49.344)
Yes, and you're talking about an overflowing amount of information, but sometimes contradictory. We know that, for example, the COVID -19 has not only affected our lives, but it has also triggered a real infodemic. So, the context of some of your research, what were the most wrong types in terms of

Shirin (15:15.112)
and what was their impact on the public's and behaviors.

Sophie Desroches (15:21.946)
We did a study at the beginning of the year, around 2020, during the pandemic, with one of my masters' who was doing a project in which she evaluated the exactitude of the information that was circulated on the social media platform Twitter at the time, now X, which was therefore going study publications that were on nutrition and COVID -19. So during the first wave and during the

second wave of the pandemic. She compared publications from nutritionists versus publications from people who were not trained in nutrition. The most wrong was in tweets that were about the link between health, COVID -19 and nutrition. What we often was that talked about

nutrition strategy to boost or over -stimulate the immune system, which is not necessarily a good thing to have a system that is overstimulated. So, while we should have talked about how to better support, for example, our immune So, we have seen lot of publications at this level. We also lot of publications that were wrong in connection with weight loss. So, we heard a lot.

of ponderous during COVID -19 for many reasons. was lot of information that was wrong about this subject. And also we saw lot of publications on specific that were related to COVID -19. So either publications that said to consume a...

an of food to prevent COVID -19, whereas there was no scientific of that. So, if we remember earlier when we were about different terms, maybe we could link that to misinformation, that is, it's information, for example, to say that, I give an example, like that by chance, that shu kale is a good food with vitamins, minerals and all that, but to say that this food, to exaggerate

Sophie Desroches (17:41.646)
positive or effects on COVID or the fact of preventing an illness, that would be false information at that time. So we found these three elements that seemed to the most frequent in Twitter so health, weight loss and also specific foods.

COVID -19 was a good example, a sad it good example to study a false information. It showed that the infosphere, the places where search, where find our information, where we navigate, can have an important on false beliefs that we could develop.

which could have negative consequences, either on the adoption of food or habits of life that would be more unhealthy, which could have a negative on physical health or mental health as well. So, this was an interesting to do and to realize that the infodemic at level of COVID -19 was not only for what was related, for example, to vaccination.

or other health related also a about nutrition.

Shirin (19:09.788)
Yes, that was something. You talk about your publications and I also want to a little about another study you did. You conducted a survey with nearly 800 students from the University of Laval on their use of social to obtain information on factors related to lifestyle such as physical stress and sleep.

Can you talk about the most surprising in this survey?

Sophie Desroches (19:47.482)
Yes, it's a really interesting that we did in recent years. We were analyzing the results, so I couldn't present all the results at the time. We finished recruiting, as you said, with about 850 students who answered our questions. The goal was really to understand what the behavior of research and information on social related to the student's was.

So, as where they were for information, what kind of they were how they were for information. So, we had several questions. What I can say about the results so far is that, for example, than 70 % of students who answered the questionnaire were for information on social related to nutrition. About 60 % of students were for information related to activity.

It was a little bit more difficult for people sleep and stress, which were two other of life that we were for, in fact, on which we questioned students. We also that for places or types of accounts where students were going to for their information, the first category of authors or people to whom we were for information in nutrition were influencers who did

There training in nutrition or health. Fortunately, very far behind, we had health like nutritionists, who we went to look for information. We also went to see the reasons why students were for information on on social There were different reasons that were mentioned.

The most common were, for example, to really look for recipes, have ideas for meals or ways of cooking. We also had another reason that was very popular, was simply to have fun. So people seemed to go see this type of really to pass the time, really to have fun.

Sophie Desroches (22:05.946)
Then there were other reasons more related to health, such as weight loss, weight also one of why students were for nutrition There was also gain in muscle mass, which we could identify as a reason that interested students to go and look for this type of information. We also a questionnaire that was filled out on the body

We are currently analyzing these results to find if having a good or a bad body is linked to time or the type of information we looking on social So will very interesting to have the results in next weeks, next months. So what we doing by analyzing our results currently is

is students consume a lot of information related to health on social So we will surely have ideas of interventions to be with them to ensure that they have access to information that they are able to analyze the information that they find on social and then apply it in safe way in their lives, in their health.

Shirin (23:30.714)
Oui, mais c pas publié cette étude, juste pour confirmer. Okay.

Sophie Desroches (23:34.522)
It's not published yet. No, that's it. But it will in the next few months, surely.

Shirin (23:40.868)
Perfect. And how do you think that the use of by students influences their choice of life, in terms of health and well -being? For example, what are the characteristics of a balanced

Sophie Desroches (24:00.076)
Yes, in our study, we did assess the impact that it could have on health. I told you about the body so we can make correlations, but it's not necessarily a cause -effect On other hand, saw that students spent a lot of time on social in one day. So we had an average, if I'm not around two and half hours a day on social Of course, didn't

to research information about life habits. But still means that when we consider life or the time spent by students who have classes, who go to school, who may have jobs, may have business may have job outside of leisure, sports, so to spend on two and half day on social it's still significant in the life of an individual. So we can suspect that.

that it will have an impact on the adoption of life When we talk about balanced for example, in Quebec, have Quebec strategy on the use of on young people's and which we can see different guidelines to promote balanced of screens.

So when we talk about balanced of screens, refer to an approach that is quite multidimensional, which aims to maximize the benefits of the use of screens and also by minimizing the risks associated with the use of different devices, such as tablets, phones, computers, gaming And this balanced as I said, is a multidimensional

So we don't just about frequency and screen time, which we see more often or we associate more often with a balanced of screens, so the time we in of screen, but we also the context use, the type device we can use, the nature of use, why we use but also the content of use. So what interests us in our research projects is to go and see the

Sophie Desroches (26:24.922)
des informations où il se retrouve beaucoup d 'informations et donc les gens plus ils regardent ou plus ils consultent des médias sociaux, donc ce qui est relié au temps d 'écran, plus on consulte des médias sociaux, plus on est exposé à beaucoup d 'informations et plus le risque de tomber sur de la désinformation est augmenté.

The balanced of includes different dimensions. And yes, we can look at the screen try to reduce our screen time, also at the content, to focus on the content to make sure that our infosphere will not have negative It is also dimension that is very, very important to look So all this in connection with

the of disinformation on media, which seems to a very important on which to focus.

Shirin (27:34.086)
Yes, we talked lot about students, but I would also to talk about nutritionists and dietitists. know that online information has repercussions not only on the general public, students, but also on health especially dietitists. And you are a dietitist here, so in your experience,

Shirin (28:01.68)
How has this information affected nutritionists' Are there specific you have encountered?

Sophie Desroches (28:14.746)
I would say that this distribution of false information and disinformation is essentially a challenge for nutritionists because it can have an impact on the decision process when we meet patients and customers, for example. in field of health, including nutrition, it can affect the clinical decision if one the other of parties, whether it the nutritionist or

the patient arrives with bad information. So can make the patient -nutritionist So if a patient, for example, has exposed to malnutrition, the possible will often depend on their health -related So we haven't talked until now, but health

It is defined as the capacity of an individual to research, understand and also apply or use information from digital media to address or a health Having good or bad digital literacy in health can have an impact on understanding, for example, information that is shared on the digital

And so when we meet a nutritionist, we understand that the patient can arrive with different levels of literacy. And this digital in health, is particular is that it encompasses several types of literacy. So, for example, traditional to understand the names of the terms, but it can also linked with scientific literacy, to be able to understand

des données scientifiques parce que souvent on va parler nutrition en raison de nouvelles études qui ont été publiées, etc. Donc est -ce que les gens sont capables de comprendre ces termes -là plus scientifiques? On parle évidemment de littératie numérique. Est -ce que les patients sont capables de bien utiliser les plateformes numériques? On parle de littératie en santé parce qu 'ils doivent comprendre les différentes informations en santé. Donc ça fait plusieurs éléments.

Sophie Desroches (30:40.058)
who do that, that yes, is possible that people are likely to believe in health information. And with nutritionism, maybe we have to rectify certain facts in connection with this literacy to ensure that the patient or the client understands well, fact, information that they will have access to on the different digital So there may be a lot of

of discussion to have with patients, with clients who arrive with information that seems false And have try see where it comes from. So is it a misunderstanding, example, level of science? Is it misunderstanding at level of the way of spreading information? So there are several elements where a...

difficult to understand basic health So are several elements that we must try to target to ensure that can rectify the facts, but also that the patient is better equipped, that he has better capacity, better skills afterwards. So it can actually require lot of energy from nutritionists.

Because we can't just say, well, information you just presented to is not good. So you try to understand where it comes from and make sure that people are better equipped afterwards to better understand the information that we find on social Yes, go ahead.

Shirin (32:23.278)
Non non non, allez -y, c 'est intéressant.

Sophie Desroches (32:26.178)
Yes, in fact, you were asking me if there were more precise There may be several examples, but often what we can see are myths that need to deconstructed. So people who arrive with false beliefs, false information, we must deconstruct the myths by always to preserve or develop a bond of trust.

with patients, so not only to say that the patient comes with information that is not, well, that is wrong, that is not adequate. So still to create a trust and have a good discussion to demystify, for example, false beliefs. But what we see lot too is that in media,

Since everyone eats, everyone has the right to talk about nutrition. Of course, have all our experience with food. However, sometimes people who are likely to be disinformed will want to ways of doing so, so, ways of eating that they will have seen on social

Because the person who will present them could say, well, I eat in such a way and I have such a benefit on my health. But that doesn't mean that it necessarily to the patient, to client you have in of you. So, these are also things that we see in clinics where nutritionists will really to the treatment plan to the different characteristics of the individual, which we don't by looking at social

where only have one person with these characteristics who will tell well, I do this intervention, I am this type of diet and I am doing well, or I tried this type of diet and it didn't work at But it's really case by case, it's anecdotal. And sometimes we can be susceptible to wanting to these different interventions, while maybe it doesn't suit us because we have different characteristics.

Sophie Desroches (34:42.798)
So these are things that we can also in the clinic in relation to the information that find on social

Shirin (34:50.662)
Yes, with lot of information available in the often unfiltered, how can effectively the credibility of nutritional they encounter on social

Sophie Desroches (35:08.018)
We were earlier about digital in health, so ideally we would develop skills to be able to better discern credibility, in fact, of health information on social to be better equipped, to navigate in this complex digital in health and nutrition. So it would ultimately be the key to better

to better to get trained, to go and look for skills. However, are still relatively simple that can be and that can help us determine the false of the information that is more credible. So for example, what is our source of information? Is it reliable We think, for example,

of of information that could be government organizations of recognized and knowledge We can also ourselves about the authors of the publication. Do the authors have the necessary to talk about the subject? Do they have any in nutrition, if are talking about this field in particular? We can ask ourselves, do the authors cite their sources?

So are these credible and recognized? When we think about the first criterion, was to look at our source, if there sources that are cited, we can wonder if these sources are credible. And maybe a last criterion, could be, there a tone or messages that are sensationalist on the publications we look Does the author, for example, a product on sale that seems miraculous?

These be elements that us think that maybe the information that spread is not necessarily credible on these platforms. So, a few little criteria that can help us the first place to better target credible versus non -credible.

Shirin (37:25.476)
Excellent. To end this discussion, I would like to address the topic of solutions. We always our podcasts with the key takeaways and solutions. What are the effective to fight against nutritional that spreads on social What can we do? And also maybe...

Shirin (37:53.968)
If you have resources, example, are there social or pages that you follow or recommend? A lot of questions in a question.

Sophie Desroches (38:05.592)
Yes, I will go in two steps. So, first, effective to fight against misinformation. I would perhaps repeat level of research what can be done. I saw a model that was still very interesting on how to counter the infodemic or misinformation that we find because of overflowing of information. We can target different elements.

in field of research to try to better understand this disinformation. So first, we talked about a lot, supporting digital literacy in health, so trying to create or make accessible training for people in different sectors, be young people, adults, older trying to join them to improve this literacy to make better.

to be more autonomous, to evaluate the information we find on social to support literacy. Then we can think of doing surveillance So surveillance means documenting the types of information that circulates and where it comes from.

So if we have research for example, who do surveillance on food and the types of information that could emerge, the platform, in different social media it could allow us to identify, OK, there's a subject that seems to lot of scope and it doesn't seem to information necessarily credible. So we can see where it comes

to rectify the shooting, example. So, do some surveillance There also verification for facts. So, we see a of more in media But make to have tools, verification resources for facts that will perhaps alert the population when they see information that seems wrong, that circulates a lot in media.

Sophie Desroches (40:23.706)
And a good transfer, because the information we find on social will circulate much faster than, for example, when we publish scientific as researchers. So when I say to a better knowledge maybe to have researchers who make this transfer to the population. So researchers who are more active on social for example, who could perhaps help.

to disinformation by discussing, let's say, scientific that can be used to ensure that they are disseminated in adequate way to the population. And then, in a second time, I don't know if it's okay to continue with your question if there were any interesting

I have a that are quite recent. The first is the initiative called Science First, is initiative that is made up of researchers, health as as information who work, in fact, it started to bring information related to COVID -19, but now they will...

They in health other than COVID -19. So they inform the population when are disinformation that appear on digital platforms. Then there is also another tool, fact, it is the Canadian for Media which has this platform called Abilo Media.

which offers resources to give people ways to interact with people with on social media, on all kinds of media. Then is also the Rumor of the Science Press which is an effective verification I was about earlier that it could be an interesting strategy to counter disinformation, which evaluates, for example, that are

Sophie Desroches (42:41.908)
So, doubtful, discredited, and also and who share this information with the public. And the last one I would to is Science Influence. it's an initiative of three health including a nutritionist who aims to raise people who create content, so influencers, so that they...

They are more aware of their impact when they health -related Their goal is to train people who create content to ensure that when they present information on health, it is information that is more credible. They also a training that they offer. And of to follow the accounts of nutritionists or researchers.

in field of nutrition, are more active on media, it can also us to have interesting that could help us counter disinformation.

Shirin (43:50.844)
That's That's good strategy and you have given us of excellent resources for our listeners. So thank very much Sophie for this enriching on the challenges of disinformation and the importance of evaluating sources of information and also to give me opportunity to practice my French with you. I hope we can continue to fight.

Sophie Desroches (44:13.754)
you

Shirin (44:18.598)
Thank you

Sophie Desroches (44:25.06)
Thank you very dear, and thank you very much to the Canadian Nutrition Society for inviting me to this walk.