Hello, welcome to another episode of unpacking
neuro queerness first episode and I want to say
six months, roughly. My co -host, X, and I just
made a film, little documentary recently, I'll
link it at the bottom, it's called Neurodivergent
Stories. We had a really great time making this
documentary, really wanted to talk about everything
that I've talked about and that we've talked
about on this podcast before, but really summarizing
it into like a film and we'll get into how it
came about and all that. We'll also probably
be going on tantrums because that is what this
podcast is about. is what you have come to know
us for and we have to give it to you. You know,
we can't really help it. I would like to start
off with questions since you know it's your documentary.
On this podcast specifically... You often talk
about how outside perceptions of neurodivergent
individuals contribute to economists' conceptions
and how that influences discussions about neurodiversity.
You do it extensively on this podcast and I'm
very grateful to be a part of that discussion.
Were there particular topics you decided to focus
on to avoid things you would see previously as
external narratives of neurodivergent experiences?
That's a good question. Thank you. Yeah, I was
thinking about that, you know, when I had the
idea of doing the project and everything and
I wanted to make sure that I phrased the prompt.
I wanted to make sure that I put it in a way
Where people were comfortable expressing just
themselves from the gut from what they're feeling
Instead of trying to script or trying to to fit
something I didn't want it to be too vague because
I know for a lot of us It's helpful to have an
idea of what exactly you're gonna be talking
about when it comes to something like the neurodivergent
experience I knew that I wanted it to be like
I didn't want people to be too lost either and
then so it was actually X gave me a great idea
of Having these little questions sort of like
optional questions for people to respond to just
kind of give them some guidance One way that
you could talk about your experience, but I remember
telling them in the email that the questions
were strictly optional They also didn't want
them to to feel like they had to follow something
that would be beside the point of the entire
yeah exactly so when i went to prepare the questions
i remember focusing a lot on things that aren't
usually shown in mainstream tv and media things
like for example sensory stings such especially
related to food things like masking but just
like the internal experience of masking i think
that is definitely something that if i had to
name the thing that's definitely not talked about
barely at all in the mainstream world is definitely
masking because masking is such an internal experience
to that point masking not from the again external
ways that people see it but the strong small
details from within that are completely different
yeah what people see, correct? Yeah, exactly.
Everything that goes on in your mind, particularly,
I guess, in the example of autism, is you get
so focused on... For me, I guess, at least, I
would get really worried about how is the other
person interpreting what I'm saying, because
I know that for me, I'm putting the emphasis
in the word. But I know that a lot of people,
particularly neurotypicals, the way they communicate
is more through facial language or expressions
or like tone or whatnot. noticed this early on
I became really self -conscious about it from
a young age and then really nervous about being
misinterpreted I guess that was one form of masking
is feeling like I had to change my or modify
my intonation or like my facial expressions at
the same time that I'm saying something which
I realized would be so stressful because it's
like you're already working on the main task
of trying to explain whatever you're explaining
or talk about what you're talking about and then
I caught myself also having to do all this math
in my head for most people they don't realize
because for them it comes naturally. As someone
who is mostly natural those are things that I
would experience when I'm having a tough conversation
with someone I care about so I think for everyone
else out there that's the experience of sitting
down with someone you're having difficulty connecting
to and want to and have feel you have to very
carefully do so with that is a slice or a snippet
of what that might be like for you on a daily
basis. Yeah exactly so I was feeling like I to
do that I started noticing I guess probably by
the time I was five or six maybe before like
whenever I was going to school and whatnot I
think I did start to notice oh and I guess it's
trial and error I started noticing that certain
expressions if I said it a certain way if I said
it with this tone if I said it with that tone
if I made my face like this or that if you put
the emphasis on the right syllable Right? Yeah,
exactly. The reaction would be vastly different.
And I could be saying the same exact thing, but
it's just how I said it. All these little ingredients,
I had to kind of mix those in there. And so there's
the constant mental math of doing that. And then
watching the other person's reaction. So I guess
there's three things. I'm speaking, and then
I'm doing all this math in my head. Okay, how
do I convey this in the way they're going to
understand? I'm not going to misunderstand. And
then the third thing is watching them. And as
I'm watching them, I'll adjust but then I can
also get really confused because it's like oh
maybe it's not working and I don't know and then
I start getting really in my head and then it's
a whole spiral because then I'll lose track of
what I'm saying or what they're saying because
I noticed this happening the other way around
as well I notice it when they're saying something
and they might misunderstand or misinterpret
my reaction or how it's making me feel because
like maybe I'm just processing and I'm processing
this information and so I'm focused on just gathering
it and so maybe my face looks different but then
they might assume that I don't understand what
they're saying or they might assume that I don't
agree with them and then I think the other big
thing with masking was having to force eye contact.
You do talk about forcing eye contact quite a
bit and people mention it throughout the documentary
as well in the context of you trying so hard
in what seems to you especially when you guys
are younger the people who are on the spectrum
that are part of this documentary is managing
expectations to feel safe and it sounds like
you try to keep that in mind when you wrote the
questions yeah exactly i think also just explaining
the sensory sensitivities is another thing that
i remember came up a lot i think i had at least
one question related to that which i'm glad it
came up anyways but i don't think i i had even
thought of food people talked about clothing
textures as well yeah people talked about clothing
i think even in general that's something that
most people aren't familiar with the sensory
aspect of but i think that even when it is discussed
mentioned more with light and sound because it's
beyond that like food sensitivities is something
that I've had for a long time and it's one of
the things that it makes me sad that's where
there needs to be more understanding for sure
but a lot of people that have sensory sensitivities
with food they just get disregarded as picky
eaters or just people think it's just because
we don't want to eat something just because we
don't like it or just because it's healthy if
I try to eat something that my body does not
like the texture of trying to eat something that
my body doesn't want or can't the texture I'll
literally start to gag and it's even happened
one or two times where I've had that reaction
because I feel like someone was forcing me to
eat something when my body was saying no and
then they think I'm being dramatic because I
remember this happening when I was a kid and
everything and I couldn't it's a bummer because
I couldn't even explain what it was back then
but I remember always feeling like there's something
that that people just don't understand I knew
I wasn't being dramatic I knew it was something
it's a proportional response to the texture ache
that you were feeling especially as a kid you
know i'm not saying what the texture was but
for everyone else if they're imagining something
unexpectedly slimy or something that didn't taste
the way you thought it was going to be in your
kid you know you have this lizard brain reaction
of yeah it's like a gag or something it's like
my body is rejecting it nope not for me yeah
which i don't even like getting to that point
before i even put it in my mouth sometimes if
i can sense like okay this texture is not going
to go go well then I won't even eat it because
I know, like, okay, I'm not even gonna put myself
in that situation. I'm glad that I put that in
there. Especially with the food thing, it's an
example of the, again, masking that you are trying
to get people to explain in addition to other
things that other people don't see. it's hard
for them to understand from the intern like the
sensory thing that comes with it i think it's
harder for them to to grasp yeah you managed
to capture the difference between other people
looking at what they think is someone being picky
when actually it's just chaos inside that person's
body or head Yeah, exactly. Because I know it
comes up in the film as well. I frame autism
as sometimes feeling like a different language
or the communication differences associated with
being autistic. It's like you speak autistic
and you can learn neurotypical as a second language,
but it's never going to be your first language.
Masting is learning neurotypical, isn't it? Essentially,
yes. It's like you speak a different language,
but most people don't realize that it's a different
language. They think that you're just struggling
to learn the language well I have an example
actually I have one for myself I speak English
and Russian interchangeably I think in both I
don't have any language issues when I speak English
there are certain things in phrases that I say
in English yeah not because of neurodivergence
but because of a cultural background that people
will look at me confused mm -hmm they will be
confused because it sounds like perfect English
to them because it is but it comes from a place
that they don't understand If someone comes and
they have an obvious accent, which is completely
fine. Very impressive when someone else can learn
a different language, much less their own. I
think other people will hear that and go, oh,
there's a reason this person's not doing this.
But say in your case, when you're artistic, people
hear you speaking, say, perfect English. Do you
think there's a jumping to conclusions that happens?
Yeah, I think when you say something directly,
because of your tone, they might interpret it
a different way. I can send you the link, or
I'd be happy to send you the link. I've noticed
that sometimes people can misinterpret that as,
if you're too busy to search or whatever, I'll
send you the link. I don't know, I legitimately
mean no, if this person is going to be able to
find it otherwise, because sometimes I can't
find it otherwise. Your intention is to share
information. Yeah. I think that's a good point,
regardless of whether you're on the spectrum
or not, and a lot of neurodivergent people, I
certainly have this where I share something,
or I try to give people more information, because
I don't think they're going to take it personally.
because why would they maybe they're feeling
a bit down maybe they've had a conversation with
someone else where they felt put down all of
a sudden yeah go well so you think you know more
than and often i'll just say actually i can't
remember exactly how they explained it and they
do it better than me so here is the information
that i think you might find interesting but as
you're saying they might take it as they might
take it as i think that they can't do it or that
I can do it begrudgingly. I think it happened
when I was telling someone about my film. Oh
I can send it or I'd be happy to send it and
then they were like oh I can look it up and find
it or I don't remember if that's what they said
afterwards but I don't know it came up again.
where I was like oh I can send it and they're
like oh if you don't mind and I'm like no I don't
we're trying to make people's lives easier yeah
I also really wanted to shift away from stereotypical
narratives such as autistic people being seen
as inherently infantile or even like as inherently
innocent which is not true either you can still
be an asshole and inherently oblivious or gullible
like I've seen that kind of trope played a lot
I think that's a disconnect people think that
oh we're communicating in this set way so they
must be oblivious or the poor thing or he's trying
to learn let's teach him the right way of communicating
and I understand and a lot of times people are
doing it with good intentions but it's because
they don't understand that it's not that we don't
know how to communicate it's that we communicate
differently. for him specifically autistic caricatures
that have become a default in thinking high skills
because of something else but low social skills
or on the other side of this narrative spectrum
to not be able to speak or being a problem and
there is very little in between and there's nuances
to each situation it's complicated But I know
that a lot of people, particularly neurotypicals,
the way they communicate, instead of saying no,
or I can't make it, or I don't know if I'm gonna
make it, they'll just not respond. For me, that
makes me more stressed. Did I say something that
made them feel weird? Not the social ghosting.
Yeah, the social ghosting is frustrating. But
I get it, because I guess people aren't used
to the directness. It feels really discouraging
when you try to communicate in the way that's
not only most authentic to you, but It's actually
a more direct way. And because people aren't
used to that, because in most people's mind,
they wouldn't do that unless they were upset.
You are trying to be as clear as possible to
not have this problem. And it's creating a problem.
It's part of those communication differences
that you talk about. It's difficult because you're
being direct to avoid miscommunication. And these
are things that you think about very deeply,
obviously. and people in the documentary think
about, and there are still problems, and I'm
not on the spectrum, so I don't have my own experience
with it. I have it with my brother, who is in
the documentary and has a lovely voice in the
documentary. Everyone, please get ready. But
he's on the spectrum, and he talks about scripting
or mimicking people, and considering that you
have both ADHD and are on the spectrum, and you've
only previously... done scripted work as a director
or an actor. What was it like doing a non -scripted
piece where you are, as you said, thoughtfully
putting out questions to provoke insightful answers
that will hopefully get people to open up, but
this is a new thing for you, is it not? Yeah,
it is new for sure. I like how it made it more
natural. I had been used to doing mostly work
like either directly from a script verbatim or
I had done something done like improvisation
off of a script but it was still based on the
basic structure of the script of like a basic
like I would change the line around a little
bit which thankfully like in my training the
Meisner technique that I did it was that's something
we worked on a lot. Being able to do a script
in your own words but it was different than this,
you know, basically what topics roughly might
come up, but you have no idea what the individual
minds are going to be. You don't know what the
variables are, which is something that you're
accustomed to in your work. Knowing just the
general idea, even if I was going off of my words,
but then I guess I was able to do that. I just
had to reframe it. I mean, what was helpful is
I did use bullet points. So I guess I knew, I
guess like the questions that I asked everyone
or the optional questions, I use that for myself
as well. And it was nice. There's a part that
is really freeing of not having it preplanned.
How much did it stress you out when I said we
should probably mix people together? I think,
I don't know if it stressed me, it threw me for
a loop a little bit, not in a bad way. And may
I say you were very gracious about it when I
did introduce it. Thanks, yeah. I know. So that's
very good from a director, just so everyone knows,
but I could tell that you needed some processing
time, which is completely fine. Yeah, just because
I had envisioned it in one style, and then I
had the kind of morph, and then I guess that's
one thing that came. up with the scripted versus
non -scripted is that when it's non -scripted
you really don't know what someone's gonna say
and what order they're gonna say it so figuring
out how to put each piece together becomes a
little harder but that's where you were really
great with that like figuring that out because
I remember we had selected different clips that
we wanted to use from different people but then
I think you did a really great job of figuring
out how to put those together and how to combine
them and then turn out really great and it's
the thing that people like the most about the
documentary that back and forth of different
people telling their stories because even though
there was the logical rational like structured
part of my brain that wanted it to be like this
block this block this block there was also this
part that i realized realized this as i was watching
the individual clips that i had picked it might
feel a little long if we didn't know these people
i obviously would try but i can even see myself
with my yeah I get the themes, just get to the
point. I could see the same thing. I can see
how this could feel dragged out for some people.
I saw how it made sense to do it like you were
proposing. I also want to say you were very gracious
as a director when I proposed it, and so was
everyone else. Generalistically, it's an ethical
gray area. to take people's stories even with
the best intentions and cut and paste them in
a way that's a bit more patch quilting or something
and everyone after we sent them a tiny clip of
what we would like to do were not just gracious
but seemed to feel it was an accurate representation
and as someone at least for me specifically who
was nervous about doing this with people it was
incredibly validating and I want to thank everyone
for giving that much support back because as
a writer and a journalist I and someone who's
been neurodivergent has been around ever do people
most of my life. There's so many ways that my
ADHD brain connects all the different themes
and I... personally felt that it would make more
sense telling a story if we had everyone else
and by the way almost no one else other than
me and Gino saw anyone else's videos before they
recorded which is what struck me the most was
if i took that raw material and had them almost
talking to each other without seeing each other
i thought that might be really interesting and
everyone was really really great about me doing
that and so i just want to thank everyone who
participated and you as well Gino for letting
me do because that was a you know a huge leap
from what we originally thought we were going
to do yeah Yeah, no, of course. I mean, I'm glad
you suggested it. It did really make it really,
like, engaging. I think it made it really fun
and engaging. It was a great way of showing that
this is an experience that a lot of these people
have. The part about masking, for example, like
when we're all talking about masking, we're all
saying it in different ways. We're saying it
in different contexts as a part of what we were
talking about before. And what I love is that
you all do it, again, as I mentioned, without
seeing each other's stuff. when I was doing my
own, I completely forgot about everyone else's.
because I was focused on trying to get words
together in my head instead of writing them down.
But it was, you know, the fact that so many words
were common between people who weren't privy
to the editing process or had seen everyone else's
videos. From a journalistic perspective, this
is really fascinating. Yeah, it worked so well.
I wouldn't have wanted it to seem I was telling
people or prompting people to say the exact same
thing in the same way. And I think there's a
lot of neurodivergent back and forth talking
too much stuff, which I appreciate. When you're
over explaining and I don't think anyone actually
is over explaining in this I think there's a
enthusiasm and a passion for being heard that
in this documentary and it probably comes from
the relationships that you have forged with these
people which is a testament to you creating that
trust that they are willing for that to happen
and are even willing for me to remix it and are
okay with that. Yeah, very grateful that I've
made these great friendships with these great
people, mostly from support groups, but also
extended family and even one immediate family
member, my father. How was that like watching
your father talk about his experiences? Did he
talk to you about it beforehand ever? I think
not everything. I mean, I kind of knew him. really
specifically said oh I started smoking weed because
I had a lot of hyperactivity and I needed to
calm down or I mean I knew that that was why
I kind of figured it out after a while I was
like yeah I know that kind of makes sense I mean
it's funny because he hadn't he didn't get diagnosed
ADHD Until maybe six or seven years ago, but
I knew that he smoked cannabis way before that
and I knew that he was hyperactive Before that
was never like oh, this is like what led to this
And I want to thank your father as well for being
this open. Yeah A lot of fathers wouldn't be
so crunchy. We love you Which yeah is like what
is really great about my dad for sure. I mean
meant one of the many things It's never direct
I don't know I feel like outside of the documentary
He'll never really tell me directly like oh,
yeah, I had this or that because of ADHD But
I can just I can see it I can see it one on I
had to come I had to go to the office and I was
doing this and then I got well And I got distracted
with this or that and I'm like, yeah More open
with you about things. I mean, it's been a very
short time since we've put this on the internet
But do you feel it's affected your relationship
in any way? I think I mean If not, you guys had
an open relationship anyways. Yeah, I think we
had a pretty good open relationship, but it's
it's like it's still Cool to like see to see
him tell it and then cuz I guess I had already
kind of pieced this together But to see him tell
it and then from his perspective and then I don't
know if I remember like specific It's just like
in the and I don't want to I don't want to spoil
it for people either. So probably better if I
don't say what it was specifically but like in
the beginning because one of the prompts was
like what were the first differences you noticed
and so and so and so I guess to hear him talking
about all of that in the context of ADHD and
then now knowing that he has ADHD and it's just
like I guess in general like even if we're not
talking about it day to day like when I see these
things and when I notice these things in him
it feels kind of cool it's different than just
observing or just kind of deducing in your head
as we talk about my dad being in the film, what
was it like for you to watch your brother in
the film and to edit your brother? Did it bring
anything up for you that hadn't come up before?
Oh, it did. Alex, I hope you never have to listen
to this because I'm about to compliment you.
He has such a lovely voice. He really does. It's
upsetting and he's worked so hard. on doing,
and he mentions this in the documentary, trying
to figure out how to use his voice and his face
and he's just so good at it and I wish it wasn't
so painful for him to figure out who he has become.
He is my best friend. We fought a lot, but he
is my best friend and he is an absolute joy to
edit, but it did bring up a lot of memories.
I did remember. but I hadn't thought about in
over a decade and a half being there with him
and going through kind of emotional relationship
one -on -one with the therapist and some very
unhelpful things that she did and some helpful
things I just I don't like to say proud of him
for me proud kind of makes me feel like I'm responsible
for some of it I was there I was a kid I'd like
to say I tried to help but that's all him and
I know he tries really hard and there's this
one moment where he talks about his nuclear cooldown
playlist and I know his face so well and he looks
so he does this little side grin with himself
on camera and I was it just made me I had to
pause it and it almost made me cry really how
happy it made me he was like I have this playlist
called called nuclear cooldown and then he just
sort of does this grin yeah it's an awesome playlist
title and I know yeah that's you should be proud
of that you absolutely should be and it was it
just brought me so much joy i watched that over
and over and over it was a really good moment
because it's just really authentic and like yeah
like that's i know it's awesome i'm like you
are yeah and to hear him talk about things that
even i didn't know he remembered when he was
first diagnosed it wasn't being autistic it was
a developmental disorder i didn't know he remembered
that you know and to hear him talk about things
that I haven't talked to him about in that context
or that specifically in years because we've both
been there, so why talk about it? We just sort
of share memories of trauma experiences and make
jokes about it. We don't specifically talk about
it anymore because we were both there to hear
him say it. It made me very emotional in a good
way. I think he's amazing. Yeah, no, I agree.
I'm really glad that he was down to participate
in the documentary. I feel like he touched on
every one of the optional questions or like topics
or whatnot and in a great way just to explain
did he got the masking down yeah that's masking
yeah yeah and that's what I find so not necessarily
admirable because people shouldn't have to do
that. I mean, I understand because I've been
in a similar situation with the ADHD, but not
quite to the extent he does. There's a, he and
I both have this performance aspect of our lives
that we're trying to mediate at the moment. And
the way he's managed to do it with more challenges
than I've had to deal with in his case is really
spectacular. I call him the dude. The dude. Like
from the Big Lebouts. We call, in my family call
him the dude. I feel, yeah, I also feel like
really close with my dad and I do feel like he's
probably my best friend as well. Realizing that
there was a lot of kind of like masking and kind
of like negative feedback and things that he
had to deal with as well. He had to feel like
he had to cover some things up. Yeah, like covering
up and or just feeling really ashamed or I still
kind of catch that sometimes where I mean just
like as a trauma response where he's like embarrassed
or ashamed about being laid or or getting it
excited or talking or interrupting. like we all
do that but i guess it's just i because i can
see that too like i can see the thinking the
thinking so there's that part that's sad too
that i'm like darn it like i mean not only does
he have a lot of these same things that i have
or that i noticed but he also had to go through
a lot of this kind of masking stuff but even
maybe more so because he grew up decades before
i did and the environment there was like even
like way way and he mentions it in the documentary
also that there was a lot lot less understanding
it is incredibly difficult and the again what
you were talking about the grace that we have
to have for ourselves and for the information
that we have and also reminding ourselves that
now that we have more information there is a
line to that grace if you have access to that
information if say people like you or me are
in your family and we're giving you access to
this information and you decide to do nothing
about it and to continue hurting people around
you, that is now on you. I think it is an important
point to make that when we have people like you
and me who spend lots of our time researching,
making sure that our sources are accurate, there
is so much more information. We're so careful
about how we are filtering it and communicating
to people, which a lot of other people with platforms
do not do. There is a point at which if people
in our inner circle have that information and
decide to do nothing with it. Yeah, exactly.
It's on them. And also have the financial ability
to say, go get help, right? Because not everyone
else does. But if they do, or they don't know
where to turn to, or they decide to do nothing,
that's quite damning for them. And it's sad to
watch, but there's nothing you and I can do.
And what's great about your family and my family
is that all of them, thanks to privilege also
deciding that they needed to do better for their
children. These are all huge decisions that they
had to make that probably affected their ego
and themselves and their sense of worth. They
decided to do it. Yeah. It's not that it's not
scary. I have a lot of respect for the fact that
they would do that. Yeah, me too. I know it's
not always the case. I know that there are a
lot of people that have a really hard time, a
really strained relationship with their family
because their family doesn't try to understand.
There is... a lot of intention that has to be
present and the need to better oneself. I think
with the information we have, depending on your
financial status, what kind of privilege you
have, your access to information and resources,
you and I are talking from a place of a lot of
privilege. I want to make it very clear that
anyone listening to this where your parents did
not have that and are trying or didn't want to,
or you don't know how to talk to them about it,
that is what it is. And that's not because of
them. Sometimes it might be. There are a lot
of parents who don't do that because they have
the information. Just decide that it makes them
too uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah. I know sometimes
it's because they don't have the information,
but I know that it does happen a lot that they'll
have the information and they'll still be like
really uncomfortable. That makes sense because
then they have to rethink their entire life and
they might not want to do that. Yeah. And that's
a choice. That's really hard for their kids.
Yeah. the best thing a person can do if you're
a newly diagnosed neurodivergent or self -diagnosed
or your parents are reeling from the realization
that they too might be neurodivergent because
you're neurodivergent the best thing you can
do is try and keep an open conversation and know
that as long as you provide answers for them
or try to give them space you're doing the best
you can they can and you can if they don't respond
in the same way that's not on you yeah it's I
seek out how it can be hard to not internalize
it. I know especially when people are just discovering
that they're autistic or ADHD. I know that imposter
syndrome happens a lot and then it's just unfortunate
that a lot of times they go to tell their their
family and their family. Jessica talks about
this in the documentary as well that yeah her
she was the first one to diagnose herself said
that Oh, she was just the youngest or in the
therapy said that she made eye contact and quote
unquote had empathy, which you've talked about
extensively how frustrating it is to hear that.
Yeah, because people assume that because we don't
show it in the same traditional way most people
are used to it, then they think that we don't
have it. Emotionally, I feel even it feels like
I feel more empathy than most people. But and
you have to learn to regulate it. Much more than
a lot of people do in order to make sure the
people around you know you care Yeah, you're
doing that little bit of extra effort. Mm -hmm.
Yes If you didn't that would be sad Yeah, I mean
I wish I didn't have to but Yeah, but it's annoying
like I I do wish like I do really hope that at
one point we get to a point where people don't
have to do that necessarily where there's enough
understanding about these different ways of communicating
and so there doesn't have to be like all this
effort put into like trying to regulate how you're
saying something that you can just say something
and be some way and be understood. I think the
language point you made earlier is a great explanation,
which is that, for example, as the world has
become more connected, more international, more
connected to other cultures, more connected to
other languages, people have, not very well,
but some people have started to make space for,
oh, this person's trying to connect with me,
but they don't have the language, they have their
own language. Yeah. One of the things that I
really enjoyed about what your father contributed
as someone who just has ADHD, as do I, was his
motor metaphor. So for context, I've heard a
lot of vehicle metaphors and similes about ADHD.
I thought I'd heard them all. I've heard the
ones about having a Ferrari motor but having
tricycle wheels. I've heard ADHD is like being
on a, you know, a train with no railway. Those
things did bother me a little bit. The Ferrari
and the tricycle wheels particular because it's
not so much that I can't do it it's that or that
I don't have the materials for it which is what
that implies is that everything around me is
not supporting me yeah one of the things that
your father used that is motor related that I
did end up cutting together and I felt so seen
whilst I did it him talking about starting at
a certain speed with ADHD and being asked to
park in that speed yeah and that really resonated
with me because one of the things that i get
told to this day is oh you need to calm down
you're doing too much or you're getting too excited
or why can't you just chill yes i've been asked
that as well i can't but if i'm supposed to be
around people i'm friends with and it's an appropriate
situation everyone's sharing i'm gonna go faster
mentally other people and I spend a lot of time
trying to make sure that I ask people questions
not because I have to mentally think about it
because I've raced ahead and I go I'm actually
interested in what this person has to say I have
to go back to what I thought but it's the parking
metaphor that your father used I don't have a
park it's like he said like trying to park a
car at 20 miles an hour or something like that
When everyone's around you and if it works like
as a journalist it works, right? But it also
burns you out And so having to learn how to not
have people take advantage of that and then tell
you off for when you can't stop is very difficult
Yeah, when you are going at whatever miles an
hour from I get up. I'm just there yeah that
often happens with me as well it's a struggle
sometimes because like it really is about regulation
sometimes it's not enough dopamine and sometimes
it's too much dopamine societally there's a lot
of focus on the not enough dopamine part it's
not just that the opposite can happen i can also
have too much and then i can't slow down even
if i want to slow down The fact that even in
different generations, your father and I could
be edited together. Yeah, no, because that was
really cool. That was another part of the documentary
that I really liked. I felt like I was talking
to your dad in that moment. Yeah, I felt like
when I was watching, I felt like you two were
talking to each other. I'm sure that some people
would probably assume it was scripted just because
it was well done. We're touching on such similar
themes. And speaking from a shared experience
as people with the HG is different but similar,
even in different generations, even coming from
different countries. What you've, I think, done
such a great job with, and I'm again very glad
to be a part of, is finding people who feel comfortable
talking about it in a way that, for me as an
editor... made it really easy to find the connections
in those stories genuine and not forced. We're
just talking to each other without actually seeing
each other and I think that's part of this documentary
is we just so desperately want to connect to
each other and we are but it's so difficult to
do that without pushback and without being acknowledged
and that's all we're asking. So I wanted to thank
you for the opportunity to work on this and to
work with you because it was really, really fun.
I'm grateful that you were also willing to do
it and take on the time. It was my pleasure.
It was absolutely my pleasure. The short documentary
is going to be screened at the Sanford Meisner
Film Festival with 2025 in San Francisco, California.
You will be there to answer questions. Yes, I
will be there answering questions given the exorbitant
cost and also logistics of air travel from the
UK to... San Francisco X unfortunately won't
be able to make it but I will be there answering
questions and then also for anyone who wants
to watch the for anyone else who can't make it
and wants to watch the film on YouTube I will
be linking that as well. And that is completely
free. Yes. So thank you once again, everyone,
for listening. Welcome back to Unpacked Neural
Queerness. And I hope you enjoyed this episode
of us kind of giving the insight of how we made
this documentary. And then more importantly,
I hope you enjoyed the documentary as well.