WEBVTT 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:04.299 Hello, welcome to another episode of unpacking 00:00:04.299 --> 00:00:08.039 neuro queerness today I have my friend X back 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:11.679 on the podcast Welcome back X. Nice to be back. 00:00:12.119 --> 00:00:16.640 We are going to talk about the shooter trope 00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:21.170 the quiet kid turned school shooter trope it's 00:00:21.170 --> 00:00:24.469 so problematic to start out this episode i'm 00:00:24.469 --> 00:00:28.269 gonna talk about an experience i had when i first 00:00:28.269 --> 00:00:30.929 realized that this was a thing because you didn't 00:00:30.929 --> 00:00:32.450 know it was a thing because i didn't know it 00:00:32.450 --> 00:00:34.770 was a thing of course because for me that was 00:00:34.770 --> 00:00:38.679 just like existing but without a gun without 00:00:38.679 --> 00:00:41.079 a gun and without like these thoughts I didn't 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:43.820 know people thought I had these kind of thoughts 00:00:43.820 --> 00:00:48.340 so it was when I was in a acting class it was 00:00:48.340 --> 00:00:51.320 actually part of the cohort that I was with for 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:54.420 two years and or two and a half years which is 00:00:54.420 --> 00:00:56.539 kind of like it made me a little more bothered 00:00:56.539 --> 00:00:59.299 that this would come up I knew these people for 00:00:59.299 --> 00:01:01.740 a while and anyways I had done like this two 00:01:01.740 --> 00:01:04.950 -year training with them and we were at the very 00:01:04.950 --> 00:01:07.730 last part of this training which was sort of 00:01:07.730 --> 00:01:11.290 an auditioning intensive and we would go through 00:01:11.290 --> 00:01:15.310 everyone other people would give suggestions 00:01:15.310 --> 00:01:18.349 what they they thought what type this person 00:01:18.349 --> 00:01:22.109 could play so i had seven classmates only one 00:01:22.109 --> 00:01:25.189 of them to be fair like thankfully only one of 00:01:25.189 --> 00:01:30.129 them made this suggestion but it was a suggestion 00:01:30.129 --> 00:01:35.700 that i could play the quiet misunderstood kid 00:01:35.700 --> 00:01:40.159 in a high school that becomes a school shooter. 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:44.120 Yeah, that was the gist and there wasn't even 00:01:44.120 --> 00:01:46.340 any elaboration. It was like that was the gist 00:01:46.340 --> 00:01:48.980 of it. And I just remember that not sitting well 00:01:48.980 --> 00:01:51.250 with me. Understandable and they're saying yeah, 00:01:51.250 --> 00:01:53.810 and I couldn't figure out why like I I mean I 00:01:53.810 --> 00:01:56.650 guess I kind of knew why but I guess my first 00:01:56.650 --> 00:01:59.790 thought was like Why the the fact that I had 00:01:59.790 --> 00:02:02.549 worked with this person or been in this class 00:02:02.549 --> 00:02:05.909 with this person for two and a half years? Okay, 00:02:06.030 --> 00:02:09.830 like yes I am like more quiet and like I don't 00:02:09.830 --> 00:02:12.870 present like other people do and I guess if someone 00:02:12.870 --> 00:02:15.750 doesn't know me that well yet that might scare 00:02:15.750 --> 00:02:18.830 them or they might be unsure but the fact that 00:02:18.830 --> 00:02:21.430 I been in this class with this person for two 00:02:21.430 --> 00:02:24.870 and a half years just makes me like wow you will 00:02:24.870 --> 00:02:27.830 I mean maybe if they didn't think of me specifically 00:02:27.830 --> 00:02:31.270 as doing that but just like this whole idea they 00:02:31.270 --> 00:02:35.129 thought you were marketable that's yeah yeah 00:02:35.129 --> 00:02:38.009 it's unfortunate because that comes from an entire 00:02:38.009 --> 00:02:42.030 culture that creates this assumption about neurodivergent 00:02:42.030 --> 00:02:44.500 people especially white male or people on the 00:02:44.500 --> 00:02:46.800 spectrum. If you're quiet, then you must be dangerous. 00:02:47.259 --> 00:02:50.039 Yeah. Well, what if I play someone that's like, 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:52.599 you could, you could still have the shy, quiet, 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:55.039 misunderstood part because I could easily do 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:57.659 that. And it's an experience I've had. But then 00:02:57.659 --> 00:03:01.039 what if the person, instead of going to, but 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:03.439 making the leap from like quiet kid to school 00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:07.400 shooter, like what bothered me, there's quite 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:09.930 a leap. So what bothered me was like, instead 00:03:09.930 --> 00:03:13.189 of that, how about this person is quiet and misunderstood 00:03:13.189 --> 00:03:16.430 and then find their community and then find their 00:03:16.430 --> 00:03:20.189 passion and then becomes, I don't know, like 00:03:20.189 --> 00:03:23.610 a meteorologist or an actor take big passions 00:03:23.610 --> 00:03:27.629 of mine like or a pilot if my mom didn't say, 00:03:28.050 --> 00:03:30.169 yeah, my mom really does not want me to become 00:03:30.169 --> 00:03:33.240 a pilot and I understand why. Because she loves 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:35.280 you. She doesn't want you to get hurt. So give 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:37.180 that up to your mom. I'll give that up to my 00:03:37.180 --> 00:03:39.419 mom. But I'm like, okay, like I could become 00:03:39.419 --> 00:03:42.159 all these things. Like, why does it have to be? 00:03:42.740 --> 00:03:45.520 Why is it? It's like you said, like, they thought 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:47.840 of me. Oh, like, that's the type I could do. 00:03:48.039 --> 00:03:49.500 Like, that's the character. It's marketable. 00:03:49.620 --> 00:03:52.020 Yeah. As a plot device in a lot of different 00:03:52.020 --> 00:03:54.340 high school films, the misunderstood kid who 00:03:54.340 --> 00:03:57.099 comes in halfway through the year, very bright, 00:03:57.560 --> 00:03:59.599 doesn't care what anyone thinks, has some very 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:02.740 interesting and poignant political ideas, but 00:04:02.740 --> 00:04:05.979 ends up being a psychopath. There's an entire 00:04:05.979 --> 00:04:08.139 trope, and the only reason that they're introduced 00:04:08.139 --> 00:04:11.539 is to keep the plot coming along. Mm -hmm I see 00:04:11.539 --> 00:04:15.400 yeah of the quiet kid in the background Yeah, 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:18.740 many people see that and don't make any other 00:04:18.740 --> 00:04:21.240 observation other than oh, this is a film, but 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:24.540 I will decide to make this Observation everywhere 00:04:24.540 --> 00:04:27.120 else in my life because I don't either know that 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:30.139 the people I know are on the spectrum or neurodivergent 00:04:30.139 --> 00:04:33.379 Or I just don't care. Yeah for an actor to decide 00:04:33.379 --> 00:04:35.560 I'm not gonna think about this person's internal 00:04:35.560 --> 00:04:37.600 life at all I'm just gonna decide this is what 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:40.490 they are as a 2d thing is not a sign of a good 00:04:40.490 --> 00:04:43.769 actor. Yeah, I agree. It's equating being shy 00:04:43.769 --> 00:04:46.829 and misunderstood with becoming a sh - it's a 00:04:46.829 --> 00:04:49.170 big leap. Like, of course there are some people 00:04:49.170 --> 00:04:52.069 that happen to be autistic that do happen to 00:04:52.069 --> 00:04:55.610 go down that path, but it's not because of being 00:04:55.610 --> 00:04:58.529 autistic. The leap that people are making, although 00:04:58.529 --> 00:05:01.170 it's not correct to do this to people on the 00:05:01.170 --> 00:05:04.779 spectrum, when it comes to - intelligent white 00:05:04.779 --> 00:05:08.699 quiet males. There is a type. A lot of privileged 00:05:08.699 --> 00:05:11.939 white men who believe they're entitled to something 00:05:11.939 --> 00:05:15.279 and they don't get it and historically they have 00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:17.699 tended to be the shooters. A lot of them are 00:05:17.699 --> 00:05:20.839 very bright, again entitled. Some of them have 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:23.199 diabetes but no one ever mentions that as a cause 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:26.720 of shooting. Some of them have other mental health 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:29.100 problems that aren't being taken care of because 00:05:29.100 --> 00:05:33.129 of a broken medical system. Yeah, exactly exactly. 00:05:33.129 --> 00:05:37.329 It's like the and access to guns Not excusing 00:05:37.329 --> 00:05:40.750 what these people did at all. Yeah, but access 00:05:40.750 --> 00:05:44.430 to weapons without proper vetting as well as 00:05:44.430 --> 00:05:47.509 a lack of Health care systems in place for these 00:05:47.509 --> 00:05:49.769 people to go to or a community of other people 00:05:49.769 --> 00:05:52.089 that they feel they can speak to Because men 00:05:52.089 --> 00:05:54.430 isolate each other so they can't speak to a lot 00:05:54.430 --> 00:05:57.569 of men isolate each other, they don't have other 00:05:57.569 --> 00:06:00.269 emotional connections to men. They create really 00:06:00.269 --> 00:06:02.290 toxic communities, incels being one of the most 00:06:02.290 --> 00:06:04.529 famous ones at the moment. And a lot of incels 00:06:04.529 --> 00:06:06.550 become school shooters, but we don't talk about 00:06:06.550 --> 00:06:09.529 them as incels, we talk about them as, or as 00:06:09.529 --> 00:06:13.050 the news does it, as lone wolves, as loners, 00:06:13.689 --> 00:06:19.490 as, again, shy, intelligent, isolating, very 00:06:19.490 --> 00:06:23.329 fixated. Yeah. And I can see how people would 00:06:23.329 --> 00:06:26.350 mistake those things for people on the spectrum, 00:06:26.449 --> 00:06:28.850 but that there's now enough information, places 00:06:28.850 --> 00:06:31.149 for people to go to understand how people on 00:06:31.149 --> 00:06:32.730 the spectrum work, what the spectrum actually 00:06:32.730 --> 00:06:35.490 means for them not to conflate you too. There 00:06:35.490 --> 00:06:38.230 are different kinds of autistic people and I 00:06:38.230 --> 00:06:42.209 still see so many people that think autism means 00:06:42.209 --> 00:06:46.370 a young white non -speaking boy. Usually a child 00:06:46.370 --> 00:06:48.410 like there are people that don't even seem to 00:06:48.410 --> 00:06:51.829 be aware of Autistic adults there are people 00:06:51.829 --> 00:06:54.209 that think that like autism is supposed to look 00:06:54.209 --> 00:06:58.050 a certain way my neighbor I tell him that I'm 00:06:58.050 --> 00:07:01.910 autistic and I mean he had probably already kind 00:07:01.910 --> 00:07:04.069 of noticed that I was a little shy and whatnot 00:07:04.069 --> 00:07:06.329 But then I tell him I'm autistic or it comes 00:07:06.329 --> 00:07:09.410 up somehow because of my podcast and then he's 00:07:09.410 --> 00:07:13.009 like, oh I had no idea And then he thinks he's 00:07:13.009 --> 00:07:15.790 being supportive, which is sad. He thinks he's 00:07:15.790 --> 00:07:17.629 being nice. He thinks he's being supportive. 00:07:17.649 --> 00:07:20.490 And that's just like, no, like good intentions, 00:07:20.589 --> 00:07:23.389 really bad delivery. Yeah. You shouldn't be ashamed. 00:07:23.610 --> 00:07:26.189 You hide it well. Yeah. It's like, Oh, thanks. 00:07:26.370 --> 00:07:31.189 Yeah. Oh my God. You mask so well. My stepmom 00:07:31.189 --> 00:07:34.709 one time and I think she's learned she was like, 00:07:34.750 --> 00:07:38.370 Oh, but your autism is very mild. And I'm like, 00:07:38.430 --> 00:07:43.000 Oh, but literally it looks mild to you from the 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:45.939 outside maybe and then it's also like inferring 00:07:45.939 --> 00:07:49.319 that oh you're not like those autistics I mean 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:52.879 I just feel like when most people see spectrum 00:07:52.879 --> 00:07:55.480 they think of it as a line which is a problem 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:58.160 and I get why people would think of it that way 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:00.360 because now I know that the spectrum is like 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:03.560 a wheel like a chart there's so many people including 00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:06.199 this person and many other people that I've come 00:08:06.199 --> 00:08:10.509 across that think of it as a line Is it surprising 00:08:10.509 --> 00:08:12.829 that people think of things as a binary? No. 00:08:12.970 --> 00:08:17.009 Is it incredibly limiting? Yes. People tend to 00:08:17.009 --> 00:08:20.490 describe non -amateur people, queer people, things 00:08:20.490 --> 00:08:24.490 that they don't understand, in terms of how it 00:08:24.490 --> 00:08:29.149 inconveniences them. Mm -hmm, yeah. That straight 00:08:29.149 --> 00:08:32.230 line you're talking about is mildly inconveniences 00:08:32.230 --> 00:08:34.929 me, or it really inconveniences me. Uh -huh, 00:08:35.149 --> 00:08:38.120 exactly. It's not based on the individual. are 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:40.379 autistic people, or can be shooters. Actually, 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:41.879 they're not. They're statistically more likely 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:44.840 to be victims. I agree, yeah. They're more likely 00:08:44.840 --> 00:08:47.759 to be victims of social abuse, of bullying. And 00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:49.700 I think a lot of people, coming back to the insult 00:08:49.700 --> 00:08:52.519 point, think, oh, a lot of specifically white 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:54.519 men, because people who make these kinds of assumptions 00:08:54.519 --> 00:08:56.519 also assume that people on the spectrum are white 00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:58.759 men, as you've mentioned. They go, oh, so all 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:01.799 of that not being understood emotional repression 00:09:01.799 --> 00:09:04.679 will come out as violence. And there's precedent 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:07.240 for this. It's a bit like watching conspiracy 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:09.639 theorists put things together, and you can see 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:11.539 them almost get to the next step. We're like, 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:14.840 perhaps emotionally repressed men need help. 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:17.000 Sounds like we might be on the spectrum. It is 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:20.700 a logic to it, and I can't, again, blame them 00:09:20.700 --> 00:09:24.139 for making these connections, but there is just 00:09:24.139 --> 00:09:26.759 one step they're not getting, and it ends up 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:28.820 harming an enormous community of people who are 00:09:28.820 --> 00:09:32.429 completely innocent. While letting a lot of other 00:09:32.429 --> 00:09:34.830 people go scot -free. And those people who are 00:09:34.830 --> 00:09:36.789 going scot -free are people who are not regulating 00:09:36.789 --> 00:09:41.070 guns. If you want to stop shootings, you start 00:09:41.070 --> 00:09:44.190 with regulating gun control. Any other country 00:09:44.190 --> 00:09:48.149 you look at that has gun laws, I can't even, 00:09:48.529 --> 00:09:50.649 I have a statistic somewhere, I don't even really 00:09:50.649 --> 00:09:52.990 want to look it up because it's depressing. The 00:09:52.990 --> 00:09:56.610 amount of shootings that happen in the US in 00:09:56.610 --> 00:09:58.750 one year versus, I think it's like in Australia. 00:09:59.019 --> 00:10:02.759 over 50 years yeah i'm not saying that it doesn't 00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:05.259 happen at all in other places and i mean there 00:10:05.259 --> 00:10:09.100 have been it happens occasionally occasionally 00:10:09.100 --> 00:10:12.039 it's not like it happens here and even like it's 00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:13.960 not something that you have to be constantly 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:17.279 nervous and worried about it's ubiquitous that's 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:19.980 the word in the u .s and people have assumed 00:10:19.980 --> 00:10:23.700 that that is normal and it is not yeah There 00:10:23.700 --> 00:10:27.179 was a really lovely article in 2015. It's behind 00:10:27.179 --> 00:10:29.120 a paywall. So we found a free version for you 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:32.019 guys by Andrew Song. He wrote a book called, 00:10:32.340 --> 00:10:35.759 I think it's Far From the Tree. He is a, I believe, 00:10:36.059 --> 00:10:38.419 queer autistic person, and he went around to 00:10:38.419 --> 00:10:42.450 kids with Down syndrome. on the spectrum ADHD 00:10:42.450 --> 00:10:44.009 a whole bunch of other stuff and talk to their 00:10:44.009 --> 00:10:46.490 parents wrote a really lovely book who also put 00:10:46.490 --> 00:10:49.289 the link to that in the show notes and he wrote 00:10:49.289 --> 00:10:51.190 this thing called the myth of the autistic shooter 00:10:51.190 --> 00:10:53.250 as an op -ed contribution and he makes a point 00:10:53.250 --> 00:10:56.330 about how people are trying to make sense of 00:10:56.330 --> 00:10:59.070 inexplicable violence that it's difficult to 00:10:59.070 --> 00:11:02.610 accept so like as a human you want to insert 00:11:02.610 --> 00:11:06.470 logic you're trying to find patterns a lot of 00:11:06.470 --> 00:11:09.700 these myths as they put it about quote unquote, 00:11:09.700 --> 00:11:13.879 autistic shooters, come from the last 20 or so 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:17.240 years of online content or discussion. There 00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:19.860 was a Yahoo chat about this mother named Laura 00:11:19.860 --> 00:11:22.659 Harper. She characterized herself and her sons 00:11:22.659 --> 00:11:24.620 having Asperger's syndrome, which is a category 00:11:24.620 --> 00:11:26.799 that is no longer in medical use. She attended 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:29.120 a school that cares to children's special needs. 00:11:29.779 --> 00:11:32.259 And she was talking about a Facebook page called 00:11:32.259 --> 00:11:34.679 Families Against Autistic Shooters, which have 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:38.659 links to the annoying one. Which one? Autism 00:11:38.659 --> 00:11:40.440 Speaks, that's what it is. Autism Speaks, okay, 00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:43.039 yeah. I know that I forgot it, that's how forgettable 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:44.759 they should be. Quote -unquote, they reacted 00:11:44.759 --> 00:11:47.759 about the soulless dead eyes of autistic children 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:50.759 and characterized them as cold calculating killing 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:53.820 machines with no regard for human life. And what 00:11:53.820 --> 00:11:56.059 do all shooters over the last few years have 00:11:56.059 --> 00:11:59.100 in common? A lack of empathy and compassion due 00:11:59.100 --> 00:12:01.940 to autism. Oh, the classic lack of empathy trope 00:12:01.940 --> 00:12:06.580 as well. Some autistics do experience difficulties 00:12:06.580 --> 00:12:10.559 with certain types of empathy I even have hyper 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:13.360 empathy and I know a lot of other autistic people 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:16.320 have this where you feel the emotion really strongly 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:18.899 like someone is upset or someone is distressed 00:12:18.899 --> 00:12:21.720 or whatever it may be and you're with them and 00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:24.299 you feel that really intensely and I'll have 00:12:24.299 --> 00:12:27.299 kind of a shutdown from that won't know what 00:12:27.299 --> 00:12:31.059 to say or like what to do or how to support them 00:12:31.129 --> 00:12:33.870 because I've like been corrected because of this 00:12:33.870 --> 00:12:37.370 in class before about when I was doing acting 00:12:37.370 --> 00:12:40.409 exercise with my partner they start crying or 00:12:40.409 --> 00:12:42.470 something or they have like this really emotional 00:12:42.470 --> 00:12:46.370 reaction and I'm being perceived by the teacher 00:12:46.370 --> 00:12:49.850 like allegedly would be by the audience by not 00:12:49.850 --> 00:12:53.389 like as being cold by not like going right up 00:12:53.389 --> 00:12:56.590 to them and the idea of however I should be empathizing 00:12:56.590 --> 00:13:00.059 with them But what happens with me is I feel 00:13:00.059 --> 00:13:03.820 their energy really intensely and it overwhelms 00:13:03.820 --> 00:13:09.740 me. So I shut down. Probably one of the things 00:13:09.740 --> 00:13:15.500 that I've been... And I know this happens to 00:13:15.500 --> 00:13:17.799 a lot of other autistic people too, but that 00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:22.799 we get misjudged on the most is like... not is 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:25.960 that like that people read that like us having 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:28.620 a shutdown because we're so overwhelmed by the 00:13:28.620 --> 00:13:32.139 emotion reading that is not having empathy and 00:13:32.139 --> 00:13:34.460 I guess that's a whole I don't know because then 00:13:34.460 --> 00:13:36.539 people don't look into it people don't look into 00:13:36.539 --> 00:13:39.799 like okay but like what type of like what what 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:42.580 what's going on in the person's brain when this 00:13:42.580 --> 00:13:47.679 happens and they're just like oh autism means 00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:50.919 no empathy and like they don't even because it's 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:53.600 not empathy in the traditional ways that we expect. 00:13:53.899 --> 00:13:55.620 And again, we were talking about people are in 00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:57.759 a fear response, especially if they're concerned 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:01.419 about social interactions or signifiers or behavior 00:14:01.419 --> 00:14:04.600 and shooting. They're hypervigilant anyway. They're 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:06.700 not in a space where their brain is going to 00:14:06.700 --> 00:14:09.279 take in information that's going to allow them 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:12.620 to process the idea that some people might look 00:14:12.620 --> 00:14:16.379 like a threat but are not. Yeah, this it surprises 00:14:16.379 --> 00:14:20.279 me that some people like when they associate 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:23.779 meltdowns with like having this kind of like 00:14:23.779 --> 00:14:27.019 a violent behavior or doing a shootout or whatever 00:14:27.019 --> 00:14:30.659 after a meltdown I don't I don't even have energy 00:14:30.659 --> 00:14:33.460 to get out of bed sometimes you've talked about 00:14:33.460 --> 00:14:37.080 meltdowns before on your podcast yeah and you've 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:38.919 not word for word but you've said like you have 00:14:38.919 --> 00:14:42.340 this feeling of overwhelming like sensory well 00:14:45.509 --> 00:14:50.149 It's always a build -up. Yeah You've discussed 00:14:50.149 --> 00:14:52.889 this and we've discussed this there's a difference 00:14:52.889 --> 00:14:56.690 and then afterwards there's like a drop of feeling 00:14:56.690 --> 00:15:00.590 shame Do you feel that you could do anything 00:15:00.590 --> 00:15:02.370 other than curl up and watch your favorite television 00:15:02.370 --> 00:15:04.929 show after one of those? No, not at all. Not 00:15:04.929 --> 00:15:09.009 at all for like 12 or 24 hours. Like I've had 00:15:09.009 --> 00:15:14.259 mouth towns where after the meltdown I could 00:15:14.259 --> 00:15:16.720 barely get out of bed for like an entire day 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:20.360 maybe I wanted to go like to the other room and 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:23.139 watch some TV you have to psych yourself up to 00:15:23.139 --> 00:15:25.360 do it I have to psych myself up like even if 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:28.580 I want to go get some water so it's just go to 00:15:28.580 --> 00:15:31.340 the bathroom it's a whole thing you know so I'm 00:15:31.340 --> 00:15:35.620 like how in the world am I gonna plan a whole 00:15:35.620 --> 00:15:40.159 like mass Murder thing and I'm gonna go out and 00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:44.340 like go execute this whole plan Not that you 00:15:44.340 --> 00:15:47.320 want to not that I even want to but and it's 00:15:47.320 --> 00:15:51.019 just like even if I wanted to like which I don't 00:15:51.019 --> 00:15:54.480 Like I don't have I can barely get out of bed. 00:15:54.480 --> 00:16:04.919 I'm just like what? If a white man who is not 00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:06.580 neurodivergent is having a meltdown, you should 00:16:06.580 --> 00:16:10.940 be slightly afraid. But... I'm being sad. You're 00:16:10.940 --> 00:16:13.320 on must. You're on must. It's just... I think 00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:14.980 he's a narcissist and he's not even autistic. 00:16:15.100 --> 00:16:17.580 And even if he is, it's the least of his problems. 00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:19.299 That's all the time I'm ever gonna give him. 00:16:19.419 --> 00:16:21.120 Just gonna put that out there. But I was like, 00:16:21.220 --> 00:16:23.200 you should be afraid of people like that. He 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:25.179 says his own spectrum is probably not. And if 00:16:25.179 --> 00:16:27.399 he is... Occasionally there's terrible ones. 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:29.919 I'm sorry. Yeah, occasionally there are. Like, 00:16:30.139 --> 00:16:32.149 there are. not all of us are perfect not all 00:16:32.149 --> 00:16:34.929 of us are perfect like there's also people that 00:16:34.929 --> 00:16:38.330 try to justify things you know oh he did this 00:16:38.330 --> 00:16:42.129 because he's autistic and but no because or like 00:16:42.129 --> 00:16:44.809 autistic like we're all perfect like we're all 00:16:44.809 --> 00:16:48.929 blue angels no like you can be autistic and you 00:16:48.929 --> 00:16:54.080 can still Me an asshole yeah, like it can go 00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:57.480 I mean like unfortunately a lot of us do get 00:16:57.480 --> 00:16:59.799 painted as assholes when we're not but they're 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:02.899 also people that are like genuinely genuinely 00:17:02.899 --> 00:17:11.660 assholes, but it's like I don't know tons of 00:17:11.660 --> 00:17:13.940 queer people who are fucking horrible. It's true 00:17:13.940 --> 00:17:17.640 and homophobic and transphobic and sexist. And 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.299 terrible to especially like bio -racer and all 00:17:20.299 --> 00:17:23.440 of that. So many people within the queer community, 00:17:24.900 --> 00:17:26.700 like for straight people and people who don't 00:17:26.700 --> 00:17:29.700 understand any of this, it's very similar to 00:17:29.700 --> 00:17:32.240 not all queer people have great fashion sense. 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:35.299 It's true because it's a stereotype. Very stupid 00:17:35.299 --> 00:17:38.359 analogy but you can't expect every gay man to 00:17:38.359 --> 00:17:46.390 be yes. Yeah, exactly. Some of them are slobs 00:17:46.390 --> 00:17:48.769 and that's fine, but they don't hurt anyone. 00:17:49.190 --> 00:17:51.670 People in the UN does. People who are autistic 00:17:51.670 --> 00:17:56.549 shooters that are mostly non -existent have other 00:17:56.549 --> 00:17:58.849 problems and make it as someone else's problem. 00:17:58.890 --> 00:18:02.809 They do exist, but they're in the minority. The 00:18:02.809 --> 00:18:06.789 overarching characteristic is that they are mostly 00:18:06.789 --> 00:18:10.910 men. Socially isolated which can happen to autistic 00:18:10.910 --> 00:18:13.750 people which makes sense. Oh, yeah, but it's 00:18:13.750 --> 00:18:17.730 not Yeah, but that's not why it's a correlation 00:18:17.730 --> 00:18:21.049 not a causation Exactly. Yeah much like a vaccine, 00:18:21.049 --> 00:18:23.309 you know, the whole vaccines cause on which is 00:18:23.309 --> 00:18:26.289 another whole episode I'd like to probably do 00:18:26.289 --> 00:18:30.069 very clear point of correlation versus causation 00:18:30.069 --> 00:18:33.329 Mm -hmm. Yeah studies that should be done are 00:18:33.329 --> 00:18:35.529 how what are these people's home lives? Like 00:18:35.529 --> 00:18:38.490 are they getting mental health support? The author 00:18:38.490 --> 00:18:41.589 of that New York Times op -ed pointed out that 00:18:41.589 --> 00:18:44.730 the mother of one of the shooters who happened 00:18:44.730 --> 00:18:46.849 to be autistic said, you know, they were rumored 00:18:46.849 --> 00:18:48.829 to have been diabetic or afflicted with male 00:18:48.829 --> 00:18:51.529 pattern baldness, but no such explanations of 00:18:51.529 --> 00:18:54.849 this behavior would have surfaced. They're not 00:18:54.849 --> 00:18:56.769 gonna say, oh, he was bald, so he shot down a 00:18:56.769 --> 00:19:00.450 school. Yeah, you don't hear about that. Just 00:19:00.450 --> 00:19:03.710 jokingly, if you're an incel and you're balding 00:19:03.710 --> 00:19:06.049 and you're mad, you might be more likely to shoot 00:19:06.049 --> 00:19:10.150 down a school. than anyone on the spectrum. I'm 00:19:10.150 --> 00:19:11.690 gonna try to make light of this. If we're gonna 00:19:11.690 --> 00:19:14.569 play by their rules, that logic makes more sense. 00:19:14.809 --> 00:19:17.950 Even that doesn't make sense. Gosh, people like, 00:19:18.109 --> 00:19:21.930 sometimes they get so close to figuring out what 00:19:21.930 --> 00:19:25.549 the problem is, but they miss it. so close yeah 00:19:25.549 --> 00:19:28.849 so yeah another thing that came to mind relates 00:19:28.849 --> 00:19:31.630 to what i was saying earlier about the shutdowns 00:19:31.630 --> 00:19:36.170 i get irritable sometimes but so does everyone 00:19:36.170 --> 00:19:39.430 so does everyone and it's also like It's not, 00:19:39.470 --> 00:19:42.329 like, maybe being a little upset or maybe even, 00:19:42.329 --> 00:19:45.230 I don't know, having a big display of emotion 00:19:45.230 --> 00:19:49.289 or whatnot. It's not gonna lead me drained after 00:19:49.289 --> 00:19:50.829 that, it's not. It's just - You're in the seat 00:19:50.829 --> 00:19:52.529 of conviction watching your favorite television 00:19:52.529 --> 00:19:55.349 show. Yeah, I'm not plotting, like, this major 00:19:55.349 --> 00:19:58.430 thing or having, like, I'm not even having thoughts. 00:19:58.630 --> 00:20:01.670 You're trying to exist, not cancel other existence. 00:20:02.109 --> 00:20:05.750 Yeah, exactly. Seems like a lot of work, killing 00:20:05.750 --> 00:20:08.099 people. when you're in a situation where you 00:20:08.099 --> 00:20:10.599 just want to be in bed. Yeah, it's just such 00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:14.220 a... It makes it so unlikely, which is our point. 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:18.579 Yeah. It's not the cause. Yeah. The ease with 00:20:18.579 --> 00:20:20.940 which someone, even if they're on the spectrum 00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:24.180 of having a meltdown, could go or have access 00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:27.839 to a weapon in the United States. Not that they 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:31.559 would, let's say hypothetically. That is a huge 00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:35.769 part of the problem. Yeah. And I think also this 00:20:35.769 --> 00:20:39.730 culture where there's so many violent video games. 00:20:39.769 --> 00:20:42.670 This was brought up to me or I read about it. 00:20:42.940 --> 00:20:46.559 like from someone else but it made a lot of sense 00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:49.539 to me like I hadn't realized originally but like 00:20:49.539 --> 00:20:53.819 there's so many movies and video games that people 00:20:53.819 --> 00:20:57.900 play that are like really violent be it exacerbates 00:20:57.900 --> 00:21:00.319 it as well but of course being the access to 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.619 guns on top of that on top of the societal factors 00:21:03.619 --> 00:21:07.599 that lead all these people to be in that state 00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:09.859 on the point of the video game thing because 00:21:09.859 --> 00:21:12.309 this is something that's been again, in the last 00:21:12.309 --> 00:21:14.309 20 years has been something that people like 00:21:14.309 --> 00:21:17.009 to debate. You do make a good point. However, 00:21:17.430 --> 00:21:19.549 there are, again, also studies that show that 00:21:19.549 --> 00:21:22.390 people who play violent video games when they're 00:21:22.390 --> 00:21:25.069 upset are less likely, specifically men, to go 00:21:25.069 --> 00:21:27.730 out and do it. So it's not so much the video 00:21:27.730 --> 00:21:31.349 games themselves. It's the culture that informs 00:21:31.349 --> 00:21:34.769 the video games. Yeah. That's toxic masculinity. 00:21:35.710 --> 00:21:37.910 It's, if I have an emotion, I will do this. In 00:21:37.910 --> 00:21:41.380 fact, a lot of video games Help people not do 00:21:41.380 --> 00:21:43.660 your shit. Yeah, that's true. Like I can see 00:21:43.660 --> 00:21:48.680 how it can be helpful to like release That energy. 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:52.599 Yeah, what you noticed correctly is that the 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:55.079 culture informing these video games and a lot 00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:59.859 of these films for for a man with no other emotional 00:21:59.859 --> 00:22:05.240 outlet or support system or education other than 00:22:05.240 --> 00:22:08.859 girlfriends that they end up despising or you 00:22:08.859 --> 00:22:12.259 know projecting onto etc certain type of man 00:22:12.259 --> 00:22:14.859 they might play that video game they might watch 00:22:14.859 --> 00:22:18.119 that film but the culture that informs those 00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:21.039 sorts of things that they interact with it's 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:24.440 not that they're wrong it's that it upholds a 00:22:24.440 --> 00:22:28.119 certain emotional standard which is very low 00:22:28.119 --> 00:22:31.279 if that's their only way of learning how to interact 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:33.880 with people i'm not saying like they see us like 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:37.579 monkey see monkey do but if They're isolated. 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:39.579 They don't know much. They don't have other people 00:22:39.579 --> 00:22:43.059 to talk to or feel they can talk to It becomes 00:22:43.059 --> 00:22:46.119 kind of a monkey see monkey do kind of situation. 00:22:46.259 --> 00:22:49.180 Yeah, I can see that happen. It's like you put 00:22:49.180 --> 00:22:51.059 something in front of a video game and they know 00:22:51.059 --> 00:22:54.660 nothing else and That's all they play. Of course, 00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:57.319 they can be violent. Yeah, it's behavior learning 00:22:57.319 --> 00:22:59.880 So what you're talking about is people who know 00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:01.619 nothing else and they have no other reinforcing 00:23:01.619 --> 00:23:04.740 factors Yeah, exactly exactly and that comes 00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:08.539 down to a lot of men isolating themselves in 00:23:08.539 --> 00:23:11.279 a culture of male isolation and incels, which 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:13.680 is sad. And I'd feel sadder for them if they 00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:16.920 didn't hurt everyone around them. Yeah. While 00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:21.660 being in a place, a lot of them of power or privilege 00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:24.339 and deciding to do nothing with it. It's one 00:23:24.339 --> 00:23:28.079 thing if you or anyone feels a certain way or 00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:31.240 has a trauma or is in a place of privilege, but 00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:35.019 doesn't have the means. or the skills or the 00:23:35.019 --> 00:23:39.319 access to help. A lot of the people now do. And 00:23:39.319 --> 00:23:42.319 yet they decide to keep doing this. They keep 00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:45.359 deciding to hurt other people. They keep deciding 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:48.779 to project. They keep deciding despite the ever 00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:52.910 expanding options. yeah that is inexcusable no 00:23:52.910 --> 00:23:56.450 like i see that like how in my case i have some 00:23:56.450 --> 00:24:00.289 privileges and i use those to empower people 00:24:00.289 --> 00:24:03.670 and also educate people that need to be educated 00:24:03.670 --> 00:24:05.970 on those things like i remember when i started 00:24:05.970 --> 00:24:08.549 my podcast and i think it still is like those 00:24:08.549 --> 00:24:11.589 are the two main goals i think it's funny because 00:24:11.589 --> 00:24:14.089 and it's still both of these but like it started 00:24:14.089 --> 00:24:18.990 out more as like educating neurotypicals on autism 00:24:18.990 --> 00:24:23.230 and neurodiversity And then it became, I realized 00:24:23.230 --> 00:24:26.549 it also became about making other neurodivergent 00:24:26.549 --> 00:24:30.650 people feel more accepted and understood, but 00:24:30.650 --> 00:24:33.369 really understanding themselves, even if the 00:24:33.369 --> 00:24:35.769 system around them or the people around them 00:24:35.769 --> 00:24:37.730 are failing to understand them, at least they 00:24:37.730 --> 00:24:40.730 can understand themselves. And I realized that 00:24:40.730 --> 00:24:43.150 because I started getting messages from people 00:24:43.150 --> 00:24:45.869 from other neurodivergent people as I started 00:24:45.869 --> 00:24:48.799 my podcast, I was like, people were like oh thank 00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:51.140 you so much for your podcast like you make me 00:24:51.140 --> 00:24:54.720 feel seen like i'm tired of masking all day at 00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.299 my stupid job and i listened to your podcast 00:24:57.299 --> 00:24:59.480 and it made me feel really good so then i was 00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:02.079 just like that's what it's about like that's 00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:04.819 that's what and i wish other people used their 00:25:04.819 --> 00:25:08.900 like privileged or their like platforms to do 00:25:08.900 --> 00:25:12.000 that as well sadly that's not the case but you 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:14.519 know i know i do and i know a lot of other people 00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:17.740 do so i guess that's what we have to keep striving 00:25:17.740 --> 00:25:21.160 for. And, to make this full circle, I love that 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:24.579 you became the story that you weren't typecasted 00:25:24.579 --> 00:25:27.819 for. You found community, you created community. 00:25:28.099 --> 00:25:31.579 You became your own typecast person. I did! Yeah. 00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:35.380 You did! You made the story! I mean, I just wish 00:25:35.380 --> 00:25:38.369 that... I don't know, I... because I know it's 00:25:38.369 --> 00:25:41.109 not just about this person I wish that that's 00:25:41.109 --> 00:25:44.069 what the idea were I wish like that's what people 00:25:44.069 --> 00:25:47.789 would think of the quiet person as instead of 00:25:47.789 --> 00:25:49.609 like oh they're shy they're quiet they're gonna 00:25:49.609 --> 00:25:52.769 go be a shooter no how about they're shy they're 00:25:52.769 --> 00:25:54.990 quiet they're gonna find their community they're 00:25:54.990 --> 00:25:58.089 gonna find their passion they're gonna you know 00:25:58.089 --> 00:26:00.789 yeah you becoming the character that you wish 00:26:00.789 --> 00:26:03.549 you were typecast at yeah exactly exactly which 00:26:03.549 --> 00:26:06.640 is great that is excellent And I highly recommend 00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:09.539 that. We do claps. Thank you. Yes, thank you. 00:26:09.740 --> 00:26:11.960 On that note, this was a great episode. Thank 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:14.220 you so much everyone for listening. Hopefully 00:26:14.220 --> 00:26:16.519 you were able to get a lot of useful information 00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:20.369 and there will be links down below as well. Thank 00:26:20.369 --> 00:26:23.130 you X for joining me and always bringing like 00:26:23.130 --> 00:26:26.750 the research and your insights as well, which 00:26:26.750 --> 00:26:30.450 I always appreciate This is our first official 00:26:30.450 --> 00:26:35.069 episode together as co -hosts of the Unpassing 00:26:35.069 --> 00:26:38.450 Neuroclearness podcast. Yes, I had given everyone 00:26:38.450 --> 00:26:41.930 I talked about this a little bit in like my previous 00:26:41.930 --> 00:26:45.549 Solo episodes X and I are gonna like become co 00:26:45.549 --> 00:26:49.359 -hosts. And so this is the first official episode 00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:52.940 of that so there's a nice little historical milestone 00:26:52.940 --> 00:26:55.880 i'm watching i am actually watching listeners 00:26:55.880 --> 00:27:00.099 i'm very very happy and excited to join occasionally 00:27:00.099 --> 00:27:03.359 it is still dino's our podcast but i will occasionally 00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:06.480 come in and bother everyone so thanks for having 00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:10.680 me your your host thanks for listening everyone 00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:13.539 that's been following the podcast for all this 00:27:13.539 --> 00:27:14.380 time