1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,140 Hello welcome to another episode of unpacking your queerness. This is your host George Mooney's gunned 2 00:00:08,780 --> 00:00:13,080 Today I have another special guest on the podcast Jeff freed 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:18,780 Jeff is an autistic senior a late diagnosed autistic and ADHD 4 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:24,200 senior we met recently on a 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:32,320 During a autism a local autism support group an online support group and I 6 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,280 Invited Jeff to come on the podcast to talk a little bit about his experiences 7 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:43,440 And I'm going to be asking him a few questions without further ado welcome Jeff 8 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:46,600 Thank you welcome. Thank you George 9 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,480 This is this is 10 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:52,640 It was a wonderful half of the sense that we that we met 11 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,640 the autism group and 12 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,600 I'm looking forward to this. I've never been on a blog and I don't I 13 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:03,760 I can't remember 14 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:12,200 Anything like this in my life, so this is interesting nice. Yeah, I think it's it's a pleasure having you on and I 15 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,920 Yeah, so the first the first question I wanted to ask you today 16 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:21,160 Was is when when was the first time? 17 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:29,520 You noticed you were different and also well, let's let's just start with that. Well, when was the first time you noticed you were different 18 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,720 To be honest my consciousness of myself 19 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,280 Was very weak my sense of self was very weak 20 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:47,200 Looking back at it, I'd say I noticed there were things about social situations I 21 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,280 I 22 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,280 wished I 23 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,480 Were better able to handle but I couldn't articulate that to other people 24 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,840 I just knew that that that people would meet me and they 25 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:04,560 Hang out with me and I said interesting and then they didn't want to talk to me anymore 26 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,280 and I 27 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,920 Remember I had friends in the 28 00:02:09,920 --> 00:02:12,200 I had friends. This was the 29 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,760 1950s in the early 60s my childhood and 30 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,560 There was 31 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,120 How do I say it was 32 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:28,200 Children were like ants back then we weren't just everywhere. We were in the post-war baby boom and 33 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:34,480 If you couldn't find a friend then you go find somebody else because there's millions of us. Yes 34 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,680 That logic turns out not to pay off but that's what the logic was 35 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:43,000 So I remember in particular the thing that this 36 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:45,840 Part is I couldn't stand being touched 37 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,400 Touching me made me feel very uncomfortable 38 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,680 And looking back at and try and understand what it was 39 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:58,400 I know that I had friends who enjoyed coming up behind me and tapping me 40 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,400 And I would freak out 41 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:02,400 Yeah 42 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,400 and 43 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,400 and 44 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,400 Well, it just brings back bad memories 45 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:17,680 It was I mean there was no autism that I was aware of back then in the 50s. I'm sure it was there. I'm sure there 46 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,720 Wasn't there wasn't as much awareness for sure 47 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,120 much awareness and 48 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,080 I also 49 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:29,800 I 50 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:37,040 Know my parents belong to a generation. They didn't see doctors. You saw a doctor as you're approaching death 51 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:44,960 That was the only otherwise, you know father to see them and I was very sick already and they never 52 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,280 They didn't they didn't have me see a doctor. In fact 53 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,040 one of the things that I think 54 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:57,360 Reflects all of the problems was I was 11 years old and I was losing the ability to walk 55 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:03,200 Mm-hmm, and I couldn't get worse and worse it got to the point. We're going up and down stairs 56 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:08,680 I would sit on the stairs. I would push myself up with my hands and then go stair by stair 57 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:14,280 My parents my parents took me to one doctor who said growing pains 58 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:22,680 That was it. That was a hard conversation and I went home and I remember it was 59 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,360 May and 60 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,920 My parents went out to play bridge and they played bridge regularly 61 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,000 They return them at bridge players and they went out to play bridge 62 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:37,000 They came home and I didn't I hadn't gone to bed. I and they left me on the couch. I stayed on the couch 63 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,000 And they said why didn't go to bed? I said I can't walk 64 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:45,120 I'm fine. I said, oh and he laid me out on the couch for the blanket on me and went to bed 65 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:47,920 the next day the 66 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,960 Doctor came to play bridge at my parents house. They said before I 67 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,760 Put in play I should take a look at your son. So he took a look at me and he said 68 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,760 We have to send him to the hospital 69 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:04,160 Yeah, and they said and he listed off a bunch of diseases all of which I was going to die from 70 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,160 Step one luckily, that's what I had 71 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:13,240 And they they they took me they sent me to the hospital by myself. I was 11 72 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,240 And it turned out I had rheumatic fever 73 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:21,560 Which was a disease that was that happened frequently back then more so my father's childhood 74 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:26,400 My parents just didn't deal with doctors. They figured you lived you died 75 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,400 Yeah, seeing a doctor wouldn't change that 76 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,400 It was it was it was not the best of times 77 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:39,720 Wow, yeah, thanks. Thanks for sharing that I I can I 78 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,400 Can understand that certainly because I I remember 79 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,200 hearing recently or reading recently about 80 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,960 how 81 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:54,360 people didn't go to the doctor very much back then and 82 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,320 It makes sense like 83 00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:00,840 hearing your experience like 84 00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:04,840 How that may have happened and 85 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,480 That must have been really 86 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,960 Frustrating to know that something was wrong with you and not 87 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,480 Get that you know not not have it 88 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,840 Be like looked into or taken seriously 89 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:28,000 A little a little but surprisingly ADD served me very well. I 90 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,600 Constantly forgot that I had problems 91 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,160 And so as long as I wasn't in the hospital 92 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:39,240 I constantly forgot that I had problems and so as long as I wasn't encountering the problems 93 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:45,160 Well as I wasn't walking up and down stairs as long as I was sitting in a chair. I didn't think about it 94 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,320 I just thought well, I'm sick. I had nothing to which to gauge against 95 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,120 So I'm sick and this is what you do when you're sick 96 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,400 I am 97 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,280 I just constantly forgot over and over again. I 98 00:06:58,280 --> 00:07:03,600 Lost focus. I something else shining came up in my mind and that would work for my attention 99 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,080 Yeah 100 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,360 Yeah, I relate a lot it to like 101 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:13,880 The 102 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:20,640 Sensory stuff like I also I would get freaked out when people would just like touch me 103 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,160 suddenly or like unexpectedly or in certain ways or like 104 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:30,360 And then also just other little things like I noticed about myself 105 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:36,400 Before long before I knew that I was autistic was like sensory 106 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:40,920 Sensory 107 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,560 Processing and sensory like overload 108 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,040 Because I had sensitivity to lights 109 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:53,080 I had sensitivity to sounds and then I even like little things like I mean certain foods 110 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:58,360 I couldn't eat because I just couldn't handle and I still can't handle the texture of them 111 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,200 and then 112 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,200 also 113 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:08,160 My housemate doesn't understand when I say the texture matters to me. That's what's important. Yeah texture 114 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,160 He's not autistic 115 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,160 It's a flavor you idiot 116 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,240 It's hard. Yeah, cuz like they they don't 117 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:21,600 They just don't get it. It's like they I've had it like with the food thing also like 118 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,600 It's really hard 119 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:32,160 To get them to understand because I feel like people automatically think that I'm just being picky or that I just don't like something 120 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,200 To not like it, but they don't understand that 121 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,520 if I try to eat a certain food all 122 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:47,120 All like gag or like I can't I literally can't handle the texture and then even like I 123 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,520 Mean, that's just a big one that I discovered recent and even after being autistic 124 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:57,640 I discovered that it's actually an autism thing because I didn't I feel like I didn't realize that 125 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:02,080 Or I didn't learn that or no one told me initially, but then also 126 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:09,040 Something I have with sand I have I don't know if you relate to that one, too 127 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:14,800 But like when I get sand in my in between my toes on the beach or something 128 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,600 I would get kind of irritated by it 129 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:21,840 and 130 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,280 I love going to the beach. I love seeing Lake Erie 131 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,760 I love the fresh air 132 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,240 Yeah, yeah, and I never really understood that was just another one 133 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,280 because you were talking earlier about like 134 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,280 Feeling certain things and not understanding like with socially for example like 135 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:56,480 Feeling different feeling certain ways or feeling like certain ways and not understanding and that that was a big one for me with 136 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,080 The sand like I I knew that I had like I felt that way 137 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,800 and 138 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:08,600 I didn't understand. I thought it was just a weird thing about me that I didn't 139 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:15,600 Like sand or that the sand bothered me because I remember I would notice like that my sister who isn't autistic 140 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:21,920 Would not have that like she would I mean that's just one example 141 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,680 but like I guess it's one example of like all these little things that 142 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,320 we notice the people around us don't seem to 143 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:33,680 Experience in the same ways 144 00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:34,800 Yeah 145 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,560 What were some of the things what were some of the things that um? 146 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,440 You 147 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,760 You you found that you were pretty good at like in terms of 148 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,200 Like special interests and like things like that 149 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:55,160 I think 150 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:01,560 First of all in school the only thing I did well at was math 151 00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:03,560 I 152 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,040 Science a little bit but 153 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,640 We didn't really do science, you know in 154 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:19,000 K-12 you you you but what little science we did I adapted to that 155 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:25,280 I I thought I adapted I felt more comfortable most comfortable with facts. I 156 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,880 like facts and 157 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,760 I didn't like I didn't like an example 158 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,840 People often talk to me about later life about but you do science 159 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,760 So you must have loved puzzles as a kid because science is about puzzles. I 160 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,280 Said no, I actually hate puzzles 161 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,000 Boring and empty I 162 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,860 Want I the puzzles I want to solve our things that we actually need 163 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:56,120 not things that we just make up for the fun of making up and 164 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,120 and I 165 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,640 Later in life 166 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,720 gained in appreciation for 167 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:08,200 Practicing 168 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,800 Can I want you to I I well I should say 169 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:17,600 I should be honest. I did psychedelics. I didn't know what they do to me, but during the 60s 170 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:25,160 I tried acid and I must have dropped it over a three-year period. I probably dropped it once every other week 171 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,960 And it opened my mind it changed me I 172 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:35,920 Started to I 173 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,880 Didn't realize it then but I started doing something I later learned to do 174 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,240 Recently, which I learned to feel before I think 175 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:49,600 So I took me a while to figure out when someone says to me Jeff. How you doing? They're not asking for an assessment 176 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:57,520 Well, I think my toes are fine, but my hair is funny and they're not interested in that they're interested in a 177 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:03,920 conversation opener to say you're feeling good and bad having difficulties and 178 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,640 It's about how you feel not how you think 179 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:07,760 Yeah 180 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:13,440 And what I learned through acid was to feel before I learned for the first time to feel before I think 181 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,440 and that was new 182 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:20,640 But I didn't if you'd asked me Jeff did you what what did you learn on this acid trip? 183 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,280 I'd say I I don't know I 184 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,480 I couldn't articulate it. I 185 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,520 I it took me a long time 186 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,000 To learn how to be introspective 187 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:35,440 There's there's an old saying it's used in psychology 188 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,000 by child psychologists it says 189 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,640 children reveal 190 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,640 Before they reveal 191 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,640 before they reflect 192 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:50,400 That I did that into my 60s and 70s took me a long time to learn how to 193 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:52,640 reflect on 194 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,640 What was going on with me? 195 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:56,800 participate 196 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:02,400 Anyway, I'm sorry. I think I've gone on too long. No, no, that's that's good. It's very good and it's uh 197 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,880 very interesting to hear also about your experience with 198 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:11,840 Um with psychedelics, um because I do I do hear 199 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:18,480 from a lot of new neurodivergent people autistics adhd etc 200 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:20,720 that 201 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:26,740 They have it also like from a lot of us. It tends to be a very mind-opening 202 00:14:27,900 --> 00:14:29,440 experience 203 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,920 Can I make a one one small suggestion just in case anyone's thinking? 204 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:38,000 Uh, well jeff jeff said I can be psychedelic just not saying that 205 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,280 And jeff is also going to say 206 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,360 Jeff did them the wrong way 207 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,560 There was no instruction manual back there in the 60s 208 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,660 And people were dropping very strong doses of lsd 209 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,520 And while they may have been good lsd in the sense that they were chemically 210 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:57,440 safe 211 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,440 um, uh, they're like 212 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,320 Like osley's acid was considered chemically safe 213 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,560 Um, we were doing it the wrong way what we should have been doing and I think there are people now 214 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,080 promulgating this viewpoint is we should take 215 00:15:11,100 --> 00:15:18,420 Microdoses until we reach a dose level where we just barely noticed it. Yeah, then we can decide for ourselves 216 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,280 Is this where we feel comfortable? 217 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:27,920 We can continue with that rate or we can increase it or decrease it but we're in control 218 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:34,480 Instead we were doing large doses. I get slammed off the ceiling. I'd walk across I I was flying through the sky 219 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:40,880 And when I get done, I if someone asked me well, well, how was it? I I have no idea 220 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,120 I I I just I battered my head against the wall 221 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,280 Now I know if you do it starting from the low dose 222 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:54,400 And working your way up slowly to the high dose higher end doses where you feel comfortable 223 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,120 Then you can take 224 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:02,080 That dose live with that result for a while until you understand it 225 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:04,800 Thanks 226 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:10,000 And I I know there are some people who say you're gonna you're trying to let your cognitive part of your brain 227 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,000 Control the non-cognitive part of your brain 228 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,520 Yes, that's what it's there for 229 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:27,120 Yeah, that's what it's there for. Yeah. Anyway enough of that. Uh, but yeah, that's uh, I look forward to the in the um 230 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,000 uh 231 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,040 They're they're now trying to get mbma 232 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:34,720 through 233 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,560 through uh, um 234 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:42,960 um the house or senate and and it's it may be the way the psychedelics 235 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:45,840 become a 236 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,500 Standardized sometimes I get out of use become standardized 237 00:16:50,100 --> 00:16:52,100 Maybe anyway 238 00:16:52,740 --> 00:16:53,780 um 239 00:16:53,780 --> 00:16:55,940 I wanted to ask you. Um 240 00:16:57,140 --> 00:17:02,900 What were like specifically about like social um socialization struggles and such? 241 00:17:03,620 --> 00:17:05,620 what were some of the 242 00:17:06,100 --> 00:17:08,100 hardest or 243 00:17:08,180 --> 00:17:13,380 most confusing things that you experienced early on like in terms of like 244 00:17:13,380 --> 00:17:16,100 unspoken codes and norms and and 245 00:17:16,740 --> 00:17:18,740 different ways of communication 246 00:17:19,140 --> 00:17:20,660 well 247 00:17:20,660 --> 00:17:23,860 The biggest one is because i'm gay 248 00:17:25,540 --> 00:17:26,820 Um 249 00:17:26,820 --> 00:17:32,340 But I didn't know like everyone who's gay. There's a time you you don't know and there's a time you do know. Yeah, I 250 00:17:32,820 --> 00:17:34,820 didn't know 251 00:17:34,820 --> 00:17:36,820 and 252 00:17:36,820 --> 00:17:38,820 My encounters with gay people 253 00:17:38,820 --> 00:17:42,100 People were not 254 00:17:43,460 --> 00:17:45,460 All that good at first 255 00:17:45,620 --> 00:17:46,740 because 256 00:17:46,740 --> 00:17:51,620 I was out of sync with the popular viewpoint of what it meant to be gay 257 00:17:52,580 --> 00:17:54,580 And I couldn't discuss it with anyone 258 00:17:55,140 --> 00:17:57,140 Because it was not cool to be gay 259 00:17:58,100 --> 00:17:58,980 so 260 00:17:58,980 --> 00:18:01,620 Uh, and and i'm still trying to formulate in my head 261 00:18:02,420 --> 00:18:06,180 Am I gay? Am I this am I paul lind? You know paul lind was 262 00:18:06,820 --> 00:18:08,660 paul lind 263 00:18:08,660 --> 00:18:10,180 He was a tv 264 00:18:10,180 --> 00:18:12,340 comedy actor 265 00:18:12,340 --> 00:18:13,620 and 266 00:18:13,620 --> 00:18:14,820 He was 267 00:18:14,820 --> 00:18:16,820 camp from beginning to end 268 00:18:17,220 --> 00:18:19,220 And and I and I kept saying 269 00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:24,500 I'm not campy. Does that mean i'm not really gay? Is it what is that anyway? 270 00:18:25,300 --> 00:18:27,300 And I had no 271 00:18:27,940 --> 00:18:30,840 Well, it's only later in life in my 30s 272 00:18:31,620 --> 00:18:33,620 When I moved to san francisco 273 00:18:34,180 --> 00:18:36,740 And uh, I shared a house with other gay friends 274 00:18:36,740 --> 00:18:42,100 And then I began to say okay, we're not all paul lind. We're not all camp 275 00:18:42,660 --> 00:18:44,660 We're maybe we're something new 276 00:18:45,860 --> 00:18:47,300 So 277 00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:50,820 That was but that's something I can only see in hindsight. I couldn't see it back then 278 00:18:51,540 --> 00:18:52,900 It's it is 279 00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:56,260 I think we take for granted popular thinking about 280 00:18:57,140 --> 00:19:01,140 Uh about a subject and we think that's that's that defines it 281 00:19:02,180 --> 00:19:05,620 And it didn't yeah, it didn't at all and it was confusing for me 282 00:19:05,620 --> 00:19:10,180 Yeah, definitely. I think it it happens a lot with a lot of things 283 00:19:11,140 --> 00:19:15,380 In society is that we're taught to view things a certain way 284 00:19:16,580 --> 00:19:20,660 and it doesn't always it's not always the way they are and 285 00:19:21,940 --> 00:19:23,300 like 286 00:19:23,300 --> 00:19:27,220 we think like because I feel like I I feel the same way about like 287 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,240 queerness and like how 288 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,320 How there's this belief that it's like 289 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,320 There's only one kind of being gay 290 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:45,040 Or being queer and like you said it not everyone is the same and also to autism 291 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,180 I feel like you know, there is this idea in society 292 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,320 Or a lot of people hold the belief that autism 293 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,600 like autistics only 294 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,000 like a person has to have like 295 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,800 only a certain combination of traits or or only like a certain 296 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:08,160 presentation to be autistic and that's also very not true because they're 297 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:10,320 even though 298 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,320 autistic people like 299 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,400 process have 300 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:19,280 Their unique ways of processing and seeing the world every autistic person is different 301 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,040 Um, so yeah, I can relate 302 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,000 I can relate a lot to that. Yeah 303 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,000 Yeah 304 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,480 Actually, you you you it's funny 305 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,480 I get moment while you were talking and I don't want to make you self-conscious, but I'm gonna show you 306 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,880 You're using your hands the way I do 307 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:44,800 And I I came from a town in bopper new york where I was raised and certain 308 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,680 European groups used their hands others didn't 309 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:54,240 I came from one that used their hands and I felt comfortable with people use their hands 310 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:59,760 I later found out a friend of mine where I live in san diego said you should watch out how much you use your hands 311 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,560 You're making people feel uncomfortable 312 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,040 said what 313 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,160 How can you make someone feel uncomfortable passion? 314 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,880 Yeah, that's how no I know. Yeah. No, I can I wow that's 315 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,960 that's cool and that's I mean that's cool about like the 316 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,600 That that reminded you of that and and it's 317 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,640 I think it's also just an example of how like 318 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:34,960 In like because like as a form of of stimming like how how that's one of the things because it's interesting like my sister 319 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,120 I had this other stim like I did the thing with my hands 320 00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:44,880 And then I had this other one where I would come when I would get really happy or really excited about something 321 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,440 I would um 322 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,000 I would like grab my chin 323 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,000 and 324 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,000 Um, my sister never 325 00:21:54,540 --> 00:21:59,360 Understood that and I think it made her uncomfortable and I remember growing up 326 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,240 and now she understands and she'll like 327 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,240 She like looks back on it and she realizes now 328 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:11,360 But it's just funny because she would always give me a hard time for doing that. She like 329 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,960 You know, why do you grab your chin? Why do you do that? 330 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:20,640 And and how yeah because people aren't used to seeing it because it's been like 331 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,720 It's like 332 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:30,800 It's been viewed as like something uncomfortable, but it's really like at the core of it like 333 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,040 when you just 334 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,480 view it for itself, it's really an expression of 335 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,440 Joy, it can be yeah 336 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,320 Yeah, um, absolutely 337 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:50,080 So, um, yeah, what was um kind of on the same topic of self-discovery and stuff? 338 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,080 um 339 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:58,580 Tell us a little bit about what it was like getting your adhd diagnosis in your 40s 340 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,560 That was 341 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,920 What I can remember of it because it was a time when I wasn't remembering things 342 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:07,600 um 343 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,120 as 344 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:11,120 I knew I was different 345 00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:13,120 And I was uncomfortable 346 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,600 And I wasn't socially connecting with people 347 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,680 Uh, and I thought it was because I I easily angered 348 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:27,280 But it wasn't angry. It was I was passionate and I always believed if you're not passionate, you're not alive 349 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,920 I didn't realize that not everybody 350 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,600 Can be this animated. They don't feel comfortable with it 351 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,400 But I I do yeah 352 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:37,920 and 353 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,920 I saw a psychiatrist 354 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,280 and the psychiatrist did a simple test 355 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,280 for 356 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,280 What's the word for it for? 357 00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:49,920 Um 358 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,440 Impulse control 359 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,440 That's where they have a computer program 360 00:23:53,440 --> 00:24:00,240 And you're sitting there told to click on a certain a certain thing that you see and don't click when you don't see it 361 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:01,440 and 362 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:03,440 Because we're impulsive 363 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,440 We'll click when we shouldn't yeah 364 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:06,800 and 365 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,800 I remember him doing that 366 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,600 And I didn't think much of it at the time 367 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,400 But he said he did that and he did some other things 368 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,880 And unlike unlike autism 369 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:21,040 And autism they're often using historical evidence. They're asking you 370 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,560 What did you do in these situations? How did you do that? 371 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,600 Because as adults 372 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,560 With autism we've learned tricks 373 00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:33,680 To get around these these differences 374 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,240 and and and 375 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,480 So I I would say 376 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,400 I was 48 and and he said you have a dd you you are 377 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,320 That's pretty clear. You have impulse control 378 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:48,960 and uh 379 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,340 I still didn't know what it meant and then I tried neurofeedback 380 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,280 So I so I i'm going in I have a dd whatever that is 381 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:04,160 I do neurofeedback. It's where they hook up wires to your head 382 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:08,400 And then you try to control the screen by how you focus 383 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,520 The screen and what they did was it would play movies, but it would only play the movie 384 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,240 If you focused 385 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:21,520 And so over a period of weeks, I learned to focus because before then I couldn't focus very well 386 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:24,240 I didn't know that 387 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:30,320 Now I know that so I and and then it became interesting for me because I could do it 388 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:36,320 I was conscious of it. I was I was conscious and I was conscious of the effect. I felt different 389 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,520 Instead of being my usual agitated self 390 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:41,280 I was 391 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,280 calm 392 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:47,200 And I rather like that it was it was nice. Yeah 393 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,960 Yeah, but if he had told me that if he had told me that 394 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,240 I wouldn't have understood what he's talking about. I had to 395 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,320 it's like uh 396 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,800 You understand if you understand apple pie 397 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,000 You understand apples when you eat apple pie apple coddler 398 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:10,160 Uh learn to juggle apples um pick apples then you know what an apple is, but if someone describes it as a red fruit 399 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,200 Yeah, you don't know what it means 400 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,200 Yeah, I can definitely 401 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,520 See that like not 402 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,080 Not knowing like not having 403 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,360 Had an apple before or even held an apple 404 00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:29,280 You don't really have you only have a scent like you know the term 405 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,720 but you wouldn't know what it is and then 406 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,280 I I can also relate to like 407 00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:38,720 Knowing that 408 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:44,400 Certain things are related to adhd or that certain things are related to autism 409 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,440 And then catching those things or like you know, i'm 410 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:53,680 Like you know like because in the past 411 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,720 like if if I were in sensory overload and 412 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,440 And I were able to catch that and identify 413 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,640 Why it was I might have been more 414 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:11,040 I might have been calmer. I I feel like sometimes it is really helpful to identify like why 415 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:17,840 I'm feeling something because I feel like especially like as an autistic person when I can't figure out 416 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,320 What is going on and why it makes me more distressed? 417 00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:27,040 So that I can definitely see that being helpful. Yeah 418 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,840 Yeah, I I it also helps and I think I think it's along the same line 419 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,840 We can talk about this a little later if you like 420 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,800 If you can be around other people who are autistic yeah help me 421 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,200 absolutely 422 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,920 Because then because then I because then I suddenly realized 423 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:49,840 Unlike them they're not bothered by me. Yeah, they're not they're not going to reject me because I'm autistic 424 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,640 Oh, you're a terrible person. You're autistic sure. I'm autistic, but you're really autistic 425 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,920 They're not going to do that and and that made a big difference for me 426 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,680 And being a software engineer I ran into tons of people 427 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,320 Who were very difficult to deal with and I was difficult to deal with 428 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:08,880 And we all had autism 429 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:17,280 Yeah, I have read that um, like in in software engineering there 430 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,200 Are likely a lot of undiagnosed 431 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,880 Autistic people that it's like one of the fields that 432 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,960 Autistic people it draws us. Yeah the screens 433 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:34,720 I'm hypnotized by the screens and all that information coming at me. I love it 434 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:42,480 Yeah, yeah, no, it's really uh, what you were saying about community too is really important. Uh, it's been one of the main 435 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:49,760 Benefits for me also like over the last few years 436 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,680 Connecting more with other autistic people that 437 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,880 Experience 438 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:00,720 Like the 439 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:07,680 Experience like see the world in similar ways and process things in similar ways and 440 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,640 And really it it's validating like every time I go 441 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:20,640 I join an autism meeting group or whatnot or i'm just even if i'm just talking one on one with other autistics 442 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,960 Even like on my podcast or wherever 443 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,640 It's just there's something very validating about the conversation 444 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,880 Because it almost always 445 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:33,440 Is a lot like 446 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,360 We're both just relating a lot to each other and 447 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,600 It makes us feel more understood as well. I think knowing it's just like 448 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:51,040 Because you feel like less of an outlier. Like you said, it's you're not bothering anyone around you because we're all 449 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:52,960 You know 450 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:58,880 Doing the same kind of things and like behaving in the same kind of ways 451 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:01,760 Yeah, yeah 452 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:07,680 I understand them and through understanding them or at least I feel I understand them 453 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,000 And through feeling I understand them. I feel they understand me 454 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:20,720 Yeah, it's it feels reciprocal. Yeah, I rarely do I do I encounter especially those autism like autism group that we met 455 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,720 I don't 456 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,880 I don't know any other place where I feel as understood 457 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,520 I don't feel as seen 458 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,840 As I do there. Yeah 459 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:39,520 How on the same general kind of topic in in terms of like socializing and such 460 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,760 What were your experiences like with dating? 461 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,480 Over the years. Well 462 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,560 Well, first of all, I should point out 463 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,360 Even into my 30s and 40s 464 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,160 I could go to a party 465 00:30:54,640 --> 00:31:00,160 And I would talk tech with people because I didn't know how to talk about anything else 466 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,160 So social connection came 467 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,360 It came for me in my 60s 468 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:10,160 Um 469 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:11,040 I 470 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,560 Had to do with 471 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,800 Really learning how to feel before I think 472 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,320 And in feeling my own feelings for me 473 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,960 I began to feel 474 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,520 About other people what's going on with them? 475 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,760 And was I accurate? I stopped I stopped worrying about being accurate 476 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,400 I started to learn I I 477 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,160 Learned I taught myself. I learned however you want to say it 478 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,640 that um 479 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,360 It's interesting. I suddenly felt I should I should apologize because I'm not looking at you 480 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,040 I'm looking away to the right which is what what autistics do 481 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:52,560 I don't think your typical understand we do this because it's less confusing. Yeah, otherwise, I mean obligated to respond to your movements. I mean 482 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,400 We couldn't have a conversation to be changing every second exactly 483 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:58,400 um 484 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,400 so so 485 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,600 Great. I lost track of what I was talking about way to go 486 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,320 We were just talking about 487 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,320 Oh socialization. Yeah 488 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,080 Yeah, and so I had 489 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:20,480 It took me a long time to learn good socialization rules not the 490 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:27,680 Hello, how are you? Okay. I say hello. How are you back? And you know not the signaling kind of crap, but 491 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,640 actual social moves 492 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,880 As an example one thing I never understood until 493 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,280 Late in life was when I had straight friends who would tell straight straight 494 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:45,760 Neuro typical friends who would tell me oh he does that because he's so and so and such and such 495 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,160 I said, how do you know he's there? 496 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,920 How do you how do you know that that person that way? Yeah, it was such depth 497 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,520 Because I can't do that. I haven't I'm clueless 498 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,240 I'm now learning how to do that 499 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,480 And that's a good thing 500 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,720 That's when we should raise constantly 501 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:11,280 With children so we have little children say and the child says what about this that and the other say what do you think he meant by that? 502 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,600 What what do you think is going on with him that he said that 503 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:21,280 And then letting him go ahead and explain things doesn't matter whether they're right or wrong 504 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,120 It's how he sees them and then helping that child learn 505 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,080 How to interpret the world around them 506 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,080 No one did that for me, but then again the apple doesn't fall far from the tree 507 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,280 My father probably was autistic 508 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,400 And I remember my father 509 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,240 loved acting 510 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:46,560 The reason he loved acting was because he didn't have a personality that he understood of his own 511 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,000 And so he learned to be other people 512 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,720 And he can be he can be 513 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,440 Wonderful likeable people he could be mean people he can be all sorts of different people 514 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,120 Yeah, I that's uncomfortable. I think 515 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:07,200 That's why I a big part of why I got into acting also and 516 00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:12,720 Like because I feel like I was I think a lot of it 517 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,600 I mean, obviously I always like 518 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:17,840 Liked 519 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,800 Being able to play different characters, but I feel like a lot of that 520 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,520 Came from masking because I had to 521 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:29,520 put on 522 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:36,160 This mask so often just on a day-to-day basis and you know studying the 523 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,000 behaviors of other people and and 524 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:47,760 The nuances and like how how they perceive things how? 525 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:54,880 How they communicate how people interact and all these things and and then 526 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:59,680 Applying those to myself. I feel like I was trying on different 527 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:06,800 Costumes or different characters and I feel like even tweaking sometimes like I would 528 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:12,720 I would do I would do something this way and see how it went and then I would try a conversation another way 529 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,440 And see how it went. So I feel like it was kind of like different characters 530 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,560 like of the mask and 531 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,760 And that kind of also 532 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:29,840 Like what you you were when you were talking about your dad being really into acting as well. It was 533 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,840 It was resonating a lot like that feeling of like 534 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,320 how I feel like 535 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:44,320 Like the masking and everything made me like that and then also other people that I've talked to like with ADHD and 536 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,440 Autistics have have felt the same way 537 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:53,520 We never my father and I didn't talk a lot and we never talked about that 538 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,400 But I remember he played Willie Loman, death of a salesman 539 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:01,120 and and and I was like 540 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,040 Salesman and and and I suddenly realized 541 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:07,840 He was a salesman 542 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,000 That's how he earned most of his living 543 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:16,240 He started a business manufacturing jewelry displays and he was out selling and hawking his jewelry displays 544 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,600 So he got to play himself in a way 545 00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:21,520 Yeah 546 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,520 And I think I think he 547 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,480 Would have been an interesting conversation for us to have 548 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:31,280 I was the only one in the family who was interested in acting but he wasn't interested in talking to me about it 549 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,840 anyway 550 00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:36,720 There we are 551 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,640 I 552 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,040 Were 553 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:47,280 Some what would you say some of our are some of the main things? 554 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:54,340 Uh that have changed around autism and ADHD awareness these last couple decades 555 00:36:54,340 --> 00:36:57,460 All right, so we're starting from nothing no awareness whatsoever 556 00:36:58,660 --> 00:36:59,860 and 557 00:36:59,860 --> 00:37:01,140 misdiagnosis 558 00:37:01,140 --> 00:37:03,140 We call it childhood schizophrenia 559 00:37:07,140 --> 00:37:09,140 I think 560 00:37:10,660 --> 00:37:14,340 What changed for autism actually changed 561 00:37:15,700 --> 00:37:17,700 For all mental diseases 562 00:37:18,500 --> 00:37:23,000 All mental disorders, that's I'm not sure I come down. I don't say disease disorders 563 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,000 I say disease disorders 564 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:27,720 And that was 565 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:31,020 There was more of an openness to actually understanding 566 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:33,720 What was going on? 567 00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:35,720 as a as the road 568 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:37,960 to providing 569 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:39,960 a more a 570 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,200 more comfortable life for the person 571 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:44,760 and 572 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,120 that 573 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,120 Because I remember as a kid 574 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,120 I remember the popular view then was you fixed people 575 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,120 Who were looked at as problems to be solved? 576 00:37:57,240 --> 00:38:02,040 So so your autism I I think in some ways I was better off 577 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,920 Not getting any help 578 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,080 Because it would be the wrong help 579 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:13,000 And and they try to give me a list of things to remember to do 580 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:19,980 Uh, I think that we've changed we we've realized now that change comes from within and it comes from understanding 581 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,420 Yeah, and and we may have different levels of understanding 582 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:31,480 But those levels of understanding are what you have to work with and that's where real change comes from 583 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,280 Yeah, it comes from respecting people too 584 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,560 Yeah 585 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,320 There's still people out there trying to fix gay people 586 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,840 True it's true and and there's a lot of um 587 00:38:46,980 --> 00:38:48,980 Connection with 588 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,800 Uh with uh gay conversion therapy and 589 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,840 ABA therapy for for autism and and it's the same 590 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,520 ABA is applied behavior analysis. Oh, it's 591 00:39:05,240 --> 00:39:07,240 Uh like the it's the more 592 00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:12,280 And well known autism therapy out there now and it is exactly 593 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,400 It is basically 594 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,560 From what i've read they they um 595 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,440 They uh keep 596 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,400 autistic children from stimming and 597 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:31,960 forced eye contact and 598 00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:38,600 Um, I mean I think there now it is changing also it's it I think the the 599 00:39:40,260 --> 00:39:42,440 Traditional ABA was really 600 00:39:44,100 --> 00:39:46,100 Harmful because it punished 601 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,840 Children for for like not making eye contact and stimming and so on 602 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,640 And I later came to discover 603 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:55,880 that 604 00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:01,960 The same person that created ABA therapy was the person that created gay conversion therapy 605 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,520 um 606 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,360 So I definitely seen that strong resemblance. Yeah 607 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:10,920 Wow 608 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:12,920 Wow, yeah 609 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,480 Remember that one. That's awful. Yeah 610 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:21,880 Um, yeah, and but but i'm i'm also hopeful of how 611 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:26,300 How society seems to slowly be 612 00:40:27,580 --> 00:40:32,380 moving in a in a better direction a better direction like as 613 00:40:33,660 --> 00:40:36,700 With both queerness and neurodiversity 614 00:40:38,940 --> 00:40:46,140 With both starting to be more more widely accepted and understood now and and I think particularly with autism 615 00:40:46,660 --> 00:40:48,660 historically there has been 616 00:40:48,860 --> 00:40:50,540 a lot of 617 00:40:50,540 --> 00:40:53,900 stigma and in the way that people view 618 00:40:54,860 --> 00:40:57,580 autistic people or autistic traits, um 619 00:40:58,860 --> 00:41:00,860 I feel like there's also 620 00:41:01,020 --> 00:41:03,020 it's so unfortunate that it's 621 00:41:04,860 --> 00:41:06,860 A lot of times 622 00:41:07,740 --> 00:41:09,740 Someone might not even know 623 00:41:11,020 --> 00:41:16,460 That the other person is autistic. I read that there's like actually a study that was done recently that 624 00:41:17,660 --> 00:41:20,060 a lot of people have 625 00:41:20,060 --> 00:41:22,060 a lot of internalized bias 626 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:23,740 against 627 00:41:23,740 --> 00:41:25,900 like autistic behaviors like so 628 00:41:27,260 --> 00:41:29,820 If someone meets an autistic person, um 629 00:41:31,500 --> 00:41:33,500 But doesn't know that they're autistic 630 00:41:35,340 --> 00:41:36,620 Their 631 00:41:36,620 --> 00:41:41,420 Their percent they usually have like a negative perception or a negative opinion about them 632 00:41:42,460 --> 00:41:43,580 and 633 00:41:43,580 --> 00:41:48,780 And then like a lot of times that changes if they if they learn that the person is autistic 634 00:41:48,780 --> 00:41:50,780 but it just speaks to like how 635 00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:54,300 There isn't much 636 00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,600 Understanding about like different ways of being or behaving 637 00:42:02,940 --> 00:42:07,740 And how like the autistic way even if the person does know like 638 00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:13,200 Even in some situations if someone does know that i'm autistic 639 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:20,000 Like how like my way of of of doing things like, you know, not making eye contact or 640 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,600 Or stimming is viewed as wrong 641 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,960 and or has been viewed as wrong and I 642 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:29,760 i'm glad that that's 643 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,760 Starting to shift now. Yeah 644 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,680 Yeah, I I 645 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,760 Looking back at it. I realized there are lots of things I was doing 646 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,400 And I had no idea where they came from 647 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:51,120 Uh, and uh as an example when I was in the hospital with rheumatic fever, I was hospitalized for two months 648 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:52,480 I nearly died 649 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,960 and I was born to tears 650 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,520 They had to keep me isolated because they were afraid I might have somebody communicable 651 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:01,840 That's how they dealt with things like that back then 652 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:03,840 and 653 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:09,440 I I sat around juggling my massage. They have a massage 654 00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:15,600 uh, they give you because you're lying in bed so long and you prevent bed sores and they they 655 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,160 I took the bottle and I would spin it 656 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,080 I'd sit there for an hour or two just spinning the bottle 657 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,680 Because it was comforting to me. Yeah 658 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,560 There's a stim 659 00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:34,960 And things like I I still do this. I hold my hands. You can't see it, but I hold my hands a certain way. Yeah 660 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:40,400 Because it feels comfortable. Yeah, and I don't know why it feels comfortable. I know that 661 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,520 I know that as a kid 662 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:50,080 We never fixed up our basement, but we had an old couch down there I would go down in the basement and I would do this 663 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:52,400 I would rock 664 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:57,360 Because it was a good chair. It wasn't a rocking chair, but I could rock and I was rocking and I would hum 665 00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:00,160 And I would make up songs 666 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,880 And I I felt very very comfortable doing this 667 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:04,880 And I didn't tell anybody else 668 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:09,280 And I got my privacy. I knew I knew I needed privacy 669 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,080 So there's some awareness. I knew 670 00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:16,000 This was not appropriate. This is not going to be acceptable 671 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,640 and and and my mother 672 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:22,720 Not out of meanness 673 00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:28,400 But I remember several times she would bring laundry down to the basement where the laundry washing your dryer were 674 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:33,840 And she would walk by me and I'd be humming and rocking and she said why don't you go outside? 675 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:35,920 Just just go outside 676 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:44,240 They were never gonna they're never gonna ask the question. Is this wrong? Is this something you need help with anyway? 677 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:46,960 Um 678 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:52,080 Or like why understanding why you were doing it right or like yeah. Yeah 679 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,600 Um understanding that I had no understanding 680 00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,840 If they could have have an understanding 681 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:04,560 That I had no understanding and then realized maybe we need to talk to a professional who can give me the understanding 682 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:06,160 Yeah 683 00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,160 Because they didn't they didn't uh 684 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:14,560 I'm reminded with the add that I got a late diagnosis 68 because I couldn't focus long enough 685 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,040 To realize I couldn't focus long enough 686 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,280 Yeah 687 00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,560 And so and so you know there's the I think my parents were worried 688 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,760 If you if you open up this this this pandora's box 689 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:33,440 Of jeff's rocking and the other things he does then they're gonna have lots of problems to deal with better. You just don't open the door 690 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:37,680 How were your parents with that 691 00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:40,880 I feel like 692 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,800 I feel like early on um, they knew that 693 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:47,200 I 694 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,040 had like some neuromotor differences and 695 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,040 I mean they noticed like 696 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,120 That I had some neuromotor differences and then I had um 697 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,960 I had some like like like a sense of cerebral palsy 698 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,920 No, just I think more 699 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,800 more just like 700 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,040 related to like 701 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,480 tying knots and stuff and uh 702 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:19,360 Just like stuff like that like I had to do some physical therapy and then speech therapy 703 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:22,000 um, like I had speech delays 704 00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:24,720 but there wasn't 705 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,760 I don't think they thought it was 706 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:34,720 They realized I don't think they realized that it was part of something bigger. It was like uh 707 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,440 Like you know because it related it tied into the sensory 708 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:47,280 Sensory sensitivities and social sensitivities, but I think not the best part of it 709 00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:53,120 Sensitivities, but I think not to blame them, you know, because there just wasn't as much understanding back then but 710 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,440 I think that 711 00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,640 These things were all viewed as like separate things 712 00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,040 and 713 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,320 I think in retrospect I wish that all of us 714 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,000 Had more information 715 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:15,760 About about it just as from a perspective because then we would have been able to get 716 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:22,160 Help and support not not just about like getting help and support because even that I feel like sometimes 717 00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:28,160 Would be hard to like advocate for accommodations at school and stuff, but I think also 718 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:33,120 Because it would make us understand ourselves a lot more and 719 00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:36,240 I 720 00:47:36,240 --> 00:47:39,280 think for every person out there that wasn't able to 721 00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,960 To discover their autism or adhd 722 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,520 Until recently there seems to be 723 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:50,480 Including myself there's part of it. That's kind of a grief of like 724 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,960 I want like if I had known sooner, I wouldn't think of myself 725 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,280 As like a broken neurotypical 726 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,080 And and I would just realize like oh, okay 727 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,880 I'm this is because I'm autistic and this this like this is related to autism 728 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:15,280 like this is related to autism that is related to autism and 729 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,920 Yeah, it would just give me a better picture, but I know that my you know 730 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:29,280 Um, I know that you know, there's no you know, there are no no simple cures offered no no 731 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:31,520 So so 732 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:37,280 Still the knowledge was worthwhile. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but it's it's just the way things have evolved 733 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,280 Like I know that back then 734 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,280 Um 735 00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:44,720 It just wasn't 736 00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,120 It wasn't as understood like I didn't um 737 00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:58,320 I don't know. It it just wasn't the way things like i'm still glad that I was able to get 738 00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:04,960 Support for a couple different things individually, but it was just there were other things that 739 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:10,000 There wasn't much support and they're like sensory stuff. I don't know like they're 740 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:19,200 Um that they're just I didn't understand why and I think even just understanding why it can be helpful and sure 741 00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,400 um 742 00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,360 Can I make a parallel sure if you're doing an ad? 743 00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:30,000 The one thing you can do very very quickly is try the meds 744 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,160 Even if you don't ever use them beyond there and you'll see 745 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,560 And you'll instantly feel different 746 00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,520 And you'll know that difference and you'll know that you can't do it on your own 747 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:47,920 It's very very difficult. You know, there are very very few therapies like neurofeedback where you can actually change the brain 748 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:54,400 And and but but knowing that you have a very solid understanding because you've eaten the apple 749 00:49:54,880 --> 00:50:00,160 You've taken the pill. You say oh my god, I feel calm. I I feel connected 750 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,560 Uh, I I can do these things 751 00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:04,560 Autism doesn't have that 752 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,360 Autism may have 753 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:12,080 One day, but it doesn't have enough. Yeah. Yeah, I can see that 754 00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,120 Definitely. I think um 755 00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,160 I I kind of like forgot a little bit earlier, but um 756 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,800 Where I was going but now um, I remember 757 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:27,760 What the autism? 758 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,960 I think that that that's a big reason that of why 759 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:32,160 I 760 00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,160 didn't 761 00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:40,720 Realize I was autistic like uh until much later until I was 16 762 00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,120 Which is still 763 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:47,440 relatively early, um compared to a lot of people, um, but 764 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:51,840 But like 765 00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,840 The social because that was more related to the social 766 00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,920 Like the only reason I went to get um 767 00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:02,880 um to get evaluated for autism 768 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:09,040 Was because I started struggling in school socially or and and showing 769 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,320 a lot of burnout and 770 00:51:13,100 --> 00:51:15,600 exhaustion from school and like um 771 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,040 Not not specifically 772 00:51:19,740 --> 00:51:26,080 Academically even even though there were with the adhd there were subjects even though I didn't know about adhd yet 773 00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,480 Like I can see how there were some things that were 774 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:35,680 because of adhd with certain subjects that I couldn't engage with but I what was happening a lot when I was a teenager was 775 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,540 I had struggles socially 776 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:42,960 um and 777 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:44,480 on the side like 778 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:49,520 We knew that I had a lot of subjects that I was like really into and really good too and 779 00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:54,240 And so I was diagnosed originally with aspergers in 2010 780 00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:56,240 um 781 00:51:56,240 --> 00:51:58,560 Which was pretty much 782 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,160 I mean which is now known as autism level one, but 783 00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:07,520 I feel like the main things that led to the diagnosis what were 784 00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,760 the fact that I struggled in school because of the like 785 00:52:12,380 --> 00:52:17,280 particularly socially like I think that was the main thing that led to that diagnosis and 786 00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:22,960 I had to have the experience of struggling socially in school 787 00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:24,960 and then 788 00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,680 coming home and 789 00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:33,840 and then my parents like noticing those struggles over time and I feel like 790 00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:39,280 Yeah, I feel like 791 00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,160 Maybe I wouldn't have gotten like if if 792 00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:48,800 If I hadn't um 793 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,840 If my parents hadn't decided to 794 00:52:53,760 --> 00:53:00,560 Like to seek out and if we didn't have the resources to seek out a diagnosis or an evaluation 795 00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:06,320 I might have I can see how that might have gone unnoticed even longer 796 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,240 Um and I actually forgot to ask you earlier 797 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:12,960 I was like 798 00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:20,560 Yeah, um, and I actually forgot to ask you earlier after I asked you about your adhd diagnosis. I forgot to ask you 799 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,280 about how 800 00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:28,240 20 years after that you ended up getting the the autism diagnosis 801 00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:30,960 That that was a that was a 802 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,960 Some what if a fool's errand I was seeing a psychologist 803 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:40,400 Uh, we weren't making a lot of progress through one-on-one therapy. I didn't have a diagnosis 804 00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:42,400 of autism 805 00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,400 My add was under control 806 00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,440 Um, I I 807 00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,200 I don't know why 808 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:53,840 but I 809 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,640 Somehow in the conversation with my therapist 810 00:53:57,680 --> 00:53:59,680 The idea of being autistic 811 00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:01,840 arose 812 00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:06,640 And I said, well, what would it take for me to have somebody who knows what they're doing? 813 00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:12,960 In a diagnosis, he said he knows a guy and I could go to see him. So I said I'd go to see him 814 00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,520 I ended up paying five 815 00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:17,760 thousand dollars 816 00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,880 With inflation in today's dollars, that's probably closer to ten 817 00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:24,640 Uh for a diagnosis 818 00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:32,080 He he he did a full assessment and um, I was diagnosed with 819 00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:36,240 And um, I was diagnosed with um 820 00:54:37,740 --> 00:54:39,740 Pdd nos 821 00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,640 persistent 822 00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,000 Um, uh developmental disorder 823 00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,120 Not otherwise specified 824 00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:54,000 Which is a real catch-all for uh, you know something wrong. I don't know what it is 825 00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:56,720 And it's not very useful 826 00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:58,960 uh, however 827 00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:04,480 Um, because I was around people with autism and I began to see my behaviors in them 828 00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:06,080 uh 829 00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,080 and I saw 830 00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:10,560 The difference between them and neurotypicals 831 00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,520 I saw myself better and I 832 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,000 I said, all right, so 833 00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:19,360 Uh, I mean because because really looking back at it 834 00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,160 What they're trying to do is 835 00:55:22,460 --> 00:55:25,680 Historically have you the person who has potentially? 836 00:55:26,620 --> 00:55:28,080 autism 837 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,080 Now tell someone else 838 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,800 How you recognize your own autism? 839 00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,400 Because that's what that ends up being and that's not really 840 00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:43,600 Uh a great way to diagnose these things. That's why they don't do it. That's why a lot of doctors will and a good doctor 841 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,400 Usually will say 842 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:49,280 Act as if you have 843 00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:51,280 And then respond to it accordingly 844 00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:56,240 But don't don't waste your money on a diagnosis because it won't help you except some people need the diagnosis 845 00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:58,240 To see in order to get help 846 00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,320 That's that's part of the deal but then I was 847 00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:05,120 I was I was uh 68 848 00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:08,240 Which was nine years ago 849 00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:10,720 Oh my god 850 00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:12,720 and and 851 00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:14,720 It was 852 00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:23,920 It was not useful I I I feel I should say this so someone listening to this understands better 853 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:25,920 There are people 854 00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:28,240 Who have a need 855 00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:32,960 Who do not have but need a diagnosis in order to get 856 00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,280 medical or 857 00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,280 Medicaid or 858 00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:40,880 Any one of those things and that's that's a real problem 859 00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:46,720 Because they just don't have a good way of testing for them because you've learned to mask 860 00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:52,480 Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's where all you you've learned to I don't say that I've learned to pause 861 00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:59,520 I've learned to pause and hold back. I don't I don't I don't I don't let my mind just just let loose with ideas because 862 00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:02,400 It has consequences 863 00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,680 It's I mean 864 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:07,840 When I learned how to feel before I think 865 00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:11,040 It changed who I was as a person 866 00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:15,140 And so now if I now when I say I'm autistic people say we don't sound autistic 867 00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:19,680 Tell me tell me what it sounds like yeah exactly 868 00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:21,680 Right horn 869 00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:26,240 Trombone what what is it? What does it sound like? Yeah, because I feel 870 00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,840 Like it came up earlier like people 871 00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:36,240 have a very very narrow views of what they feel autistic people are 872 00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:39,680 supposed to look like or sound like but 873 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,080 One we just talked about earlier is a good one 874 00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:48,160 I didn't know how to look someone in the eye when I talked with them 875 00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:52,320 Mm-hmm. So I once I learned that's a problem. You're doing it Jeff 876 00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:56,100 Here's and and and and and they did it non-judgmentally 877 00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:02,800 They said it's part of autism and then I watched other autistic people doing exactly the same that same thing 878 00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:05,920 I went out of my way to change 879 00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:10,320 I decided I was going to connect with people I had to 880 00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:13,520 See eye to eye with them 881 00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:19,600 And I was willing to you know, I made an effort so I changed so I don't have that problem. Does that mean I'm not autistic 882 00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,360 No, so I just think I'm just learning 883 00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:29,280 How to make the best of it. Yeah, not let it not let it dominate my life. Yeah 884 00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,120 Yeah, um, I mean, I think that's another 885 00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:37,840 Like we also talked about it's another important part of 886 00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:42,880 Having community with other autistics because then we don't have to worry so much about 887 00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:45,200 masking 888 00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:48,560 things like like holding eye contact and 889 00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,000 Even though it's useful to 890 00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,120 Be 891 00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:01,200 To to to be able to use the masking 892 00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,000 When we have to use it 893 00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:08,000 And understand the neurotypical codes and languages 894 00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:14,160 When we have to use them with neurotypicals, it's always refreshing to be able to 895 00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:20,000 To to be able to unmask with other with other autistics, too 896 00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,040 And it surprises me 897 00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:29,520 You know people say well, then you can get over your autism. I really I use that phrase terrible phrasing on purpose 898 00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:37,200 If terrible phrasing on purpose when I started talking with you, I went right into the mode where I wasn't gonna look at you 899 00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:44,480 Even though i've worked on that for years when I don't think about it. I go right back to 900 00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,080 Look at me 901 00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:52,480 Yeah, which I think is like also it's a bummer that 902 00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,000 There's not as much on that. There's so much 903 00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:03,140 Emphasis on eye contact out there in the world because I feel like if it weren't one of those things that's so important 904 01:00:04,020 --> 01:00:08,980 to neurotypical society, I feel like we would be a lot more relaxed because I feel like 905 01:00:09,940 --> 01:00:11,380 having to 906 01:00:11,380 --> 01:00:13,380 It may it makes us like 907 01:00:13,780 --> 01:00:17,300 Worry, you know it creates this anxiety like having to 908 01:00:18,020 --> 01:00:21,700 Worry because i'll still do it sometimes like even with other autistics, too 909 01:00:21,700 --> 01:00:24,660 And then i'll remind myself. Oh wait, I don't have to 910 01:00:24,660 --> 01:00:26,260 but it's like 911 01:00:26,260 --> 01:00:28,260 it I look back and 912 01:00:29,780 --> 01:00:35,220 It's yeah, I just wonder what it would have been like if I didn't have to 913 01:00:37,060 --> 01:00:43,940 If it's not something that I had to worry about or I had to be told like so many times that I wasn't 914 01:00:44,500 --> 01:00:46,980 making eye contact because then 915 01:00:48,340 --> 01:00:50,660 Because it does create sort of like that anxiety 916 01:00:50,660 --> 01:00:56,900 But it it also it's also what makes it nice to to remind ourselves when we don't have to do it 917 01:00:58,260 --> 01:01:00,260 Yeah, yeah, absolutely 918 01:01:01,380 --> 01:01:03,380 Something that uh 919 01:01:04,180 --> 01:01:06,180 I was just thinking about 920 01:01:07,620 --> 01:01:11,140 When we were talking about socializing and everything and 921 01:01:12,260 --> 01:01:15,140 Have there been people in your life that 922 01:01:16,100 --> 01:01:18,100 You've become comfortable 923 01:01:18,100 --> 01:01:21,860 over time disclosing that you're autistic and and then 924 01:01:23,380 --> 01:01:29,860 Have they like with the understanding of of why you struggle with eye contact or whatnot 925 01:01:30,820 --> 01:01:32,820 in the same 926 01:01:33,380 --> 01:01:39,860 In kind of a similar way of how us autistics kind of understand that about each other automatically 927 01:01:40,500 --> 01:01:46,420 Have there been people in your life even non-autistic that have been able to understand that more? 928 01:01:46,420 --> 01:01:49,220 And have you felt less pressured to mask around them? 929 01:01:50,900 --> 01:01:51,780 Well 930 01:01:51,780 --> 01:01:56,740 Now you make me wish I'd done done things a little differently. I never pressed the issue. I 931 01:01:57,460 --> 01:01:59,940 I to be honest, I've always felt 932 01:02:01,300 --> 01:02:03,300 And wrongly so in some cases 933 01:02:04,660 --> 01:02:06,260 I've always felt 934 01:02:06,260 --> 01:02:09,460 Like an outsider like I can't ask things of other people 935 01:02:10,260 --> 01:02:13,940 Uh and and and for various reasons there's an example 936 01:02:13,940 --> 01:02:17,320 I have a site. I'm a sister who's a phd psychologist 937 01:02:19,780 --> 01:02:24,020 It took me it took me a long time to ever mention to her that I i'm autistic 938 01:02:25,380 --> 01:02:28,180 She wanted to play doctor and fix me and 939 01:02:28,900 --> 01:02:33,460 I don't think even if she has the skills for it and she doesn't understand she doesn't get the skills 940 01:02:36,340 --> 01:02:40,180 I i'm not sure how to articulate to people that 941 01:02:40,180 --> 01:02:43,220 You know, so I told people I was in a different group 942 01:02:43,220 --> 01:02:49,700 I was in a gay men's group and I said sometimes when I talk i'm going to talk i'm going to look away because it's easier for me 943 01:02:50,500 --> 01:02:52,500 and and 944 01:02:53,460 --> 01:02:55,460 I think they 945 01:02:56,900 --> 01:02:58,900 I made them uncomfortable 946 01:02:59,300 --> 01:03:01,460 And I was leading the group 947 01:03:02,740 --> 01:03:05,220 So that was kind of bad 948 01:03:05,220 --> 01:03:12,260 Um, uh, it's a lot of other things. I think the problem for me is it's asking something of others and you know 949 01:03:13,140 --> 01:03:16,660 As one psychologist said aren't I allowed to claim a little space? 950 01:03:18,340 --> 01:03:21,220 And that's that's a good question because in truth 951 01:03:22,500 --> 01:03:23,700 I don't know 952 01:03:23,700 --> 01:03:28,580 Yeah, I think I mean I think it speaks to how like a lot of uh, 953 01:03:28,580 --> 01:03:35,620 Have been societally taught to not 954 01:03:35,060 --> 01:03:40,020 Ask ask for help or ask for understanding or to like 955 01:03:42,020 --> 01:03:48,660 Internalize a lot of our our struggles because I certainly did that myself as well and i'm only really 956 01:03:49,700 --> 01:03:51,700 Starting to 957 01:03:51,700 --> 01:04:00,660 Unpack it now and um, it's it's I always enjoy talking to other autistics as well about their own 958 01:04:01,460 --> 01:04:03,460 Experiences with all that 959 01:04:04,420 --> 01:04:06,420 Yeah, yeah, it's 960 01:04:08,500 --> 01:04:12,660 Our culture is very much a you're on your own second up 961 01:04:13,860 --> 01:04:15,860 Level 962 01:04:15,860 --> 01:04:21,220 And and they they look at anything else as being lazy or 963 01:04:21,700 --> 01:04:26,020 Really mean about it. Yeah, exactly. There's there's very little understanding 964 01:04:27,620 --> 01:04:29,380 Yeah 965 01:04:29,380 --> 01:04:35,380 And because of that very little little empathy, yeah, and then one thing too, which is very ironic because we 966 01:04:36,180 --> 01:04:38,180 like I've autistics 967 01:04:38,180 --> 01:04:40,180 Usually get get the 968 01:04:40,180 --> 01:04:45,540 We don't have empathy, but to me a lot of times it feels like 969 01:04:46,340 --> 01:04:48,340 Neurotypicals 970 01:04:51,380 --> 01:04:59,460 Um once again, uh, this was really really great, uh, um, i'll let you go now, but um, 971 01:05:00,020 --> 01:05:02,020 Thanks once again for coming on 972 01:05:02,580 --> 01:05:04,580 My pleasure. Thank you 973 01:05:04,580 --> 01:05:10,740 I really enjoyed it. This is uh, this is a good adventure. Please let me know when you post this. I will i'll send you the link 974 01:05:10,740 --> 01:05:12,740 And everything in the email 975 01:05:13,380 --> 01:05:15,380 Yeah, I will 976 01:05:16,020 --> 01:05:19,700 And I have a technical question these are bone conduction 977 01:05:20,580 --> 01:05:24,260 Bone conduction, all right, so they're not in my ear. Okay 978 01:05:25,220 --> 01:05:27,220 Yeah, they're very light 979 01:05:27,780 --> 01:05:29,780 But I sounded okay 980 01:05:29,780 --> 01:05:34,100 Oh you sounded good. Yeah, I could hear you. Okay. Yeah 981 01:05:34,580 --> 01:05:35,460 Okay 982 01:05:35,460 --> 01:05:39,700 Awesome. Well, thank you very much. Thank you and thank you everyone for listening 983 01:05:39,700 --> 01:05:59,780 I hope you enjoyed this episode and i'll see you all next time