1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,520
Hello, welcome to another episode of unpacking neuro queerness

2
00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:11,720
This is your host George Munez guns today. I have a very special guest on the podcast

3
00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,680
Livia Sarah from the live label free podcast

4
00:00:16,740 --> 00:00:18,240
Welcome, Livia

5
00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:22,880
Thank you so much for having me George very excited to be here. Thank you for coming on

6
00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,860
I have many questions for you today about your

7
00:00:27,860 --> 00:00:31,420
You in general your podcast and then also your

8
00:00:33,300 --> 00:00:36,180
Your your new book that just came out

9
00:00:37,220 --> 00:00:42,340
a rainbow girl, yes, and I had my

10
00:00:42,900 --> 00:00:46,380
Head I got a little stuck a little bit. I

11
00:00:47,220 --> 00:00:50,740
I so the first question I wanted to ask you is

12
00:00:52,180 --> 00:00:56,900
Tell us a little bit about yourself your journey with battling and eating

13
00:00:56,900 --> 00:01:01,180
Battling and eating disorder and how you came to realize that you're autistic

14
00:01:01,980 --> 00:01:06,540
Yeah getting straight into it. Well, I always have such a hard time

15
00:01:06,540 --> 00:01:10,560
Which is it's usually the first question to come but I feel like oh my gosh

16
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:15,580
I could literally even start because it's like my whole life which of course I wrote an entire book about

17
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,220
So if I am going on a rambling on for too long

18
00:01:19,420 --> 00:01:25,160
Which us autistic people tend to be good at you can just say stop right there and guide me

19
00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:31,720
Um, but yeah, I like to just start at the beginning, you know when I when I was growing up because I think every

20
00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:39,400
Autistic person, you know diagnosed or not can resonate with this feeling of like there's something about me that is different

21
00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,700
There's something about me. I don't fit in

22
00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:48,400
Why like why am I weird quote quote quote weird, you know, why are my interests so different?

23
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:53,440
Um, why am I asking questions that no one else is asking? Um, and

24
00:01:53,440 --> 00:02:00,600
This is kind of something that I've been talking a lot about with with my clients lately

25
00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,200
In with that is, you know how when you're an autistic person

26
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,640
I feel like we see straight through the bullshit of society in a sense like

27
00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,920
Society at large is just it's all about

28
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:19,080
Conforming and being a cog in a wheel. That's what you know, it means to be living in society

29
00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:25,920
But I think as autistic people were like what like we can't conform. We can't be part of this like everyone is like

30
00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:32,240
blind to their own blindness basically and obviously not referring to like actual blindness

31
00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,400
Um, but it's just from such young age. I just realized like I

32
00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:41,040
Just saw through things and I was like wow

33
00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:47,000
Like I think that's why we can't engage in small talk because it's so meaningless and purposeless to us and for me

34
00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:53,240
Everything always had to have a purpose like there had to be some sort of meaning at the end of everything I did

35
00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:54,880
Um

36
00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,640
And so yeah, so in a sense growing up. I was just like, okay, I'm different

37
00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:02,840
I had barely any friends because all of the other girls my age, um

38
00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:07,680
Because yeah, we're just talking about dolls and makeup and gossiping and obviously

39
00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:09,840
This is so so much bullshit

40
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:14,240
Like why can't we talk about why we exist and you know the infinite universe?

41
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,360
Like that's what I wanted to talk about like existential stuff, you know

42
00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:24,160
And so I quickly learned like the only people that I can actually talk to are like adults. Um

43
00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:30,760
And I remember, you know, just always wow. She's so mature. She's so wise beyond her years

44
00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,720
How old is she and my mom and dad would be like the proud parents?

45
00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,920
But at the same time like this is awkward. Like why is our kid like this?

46
00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:44,720
And I was also just very perfectionistic and I think you know, that's kind of what

47
00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:53,440
Started out as like my masking journey. I guess it's just trying to find meaning and purpose and validation in external

48
00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:55,440
circumstances, you know

49
00:03:55,440 --> 00:04:02,640
Excelling at my sports, um, and only being satisfied if you know, I got straight A's on was the best student

50
00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,640
I was the t2's pet

51
00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:10,360
Even though school was very difficult for me. I felt like well if I can like prove to other people how

52
00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,800
Perfect I am. Well, then maybe they'll think I'm a little less weird. Um

53
00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:22,480
So yeah, that was kind of just my childhood growing up with so much anxiety and so much stress because everything had to be perfect

54
00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:29,160
I could not make a misstep and at the time I think when you're a kid, you don't even realize what you're doing

55
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,280
You're just doing it. It's just like an adaptive process

56
00:04:32,280 --> 00:04:37,000
You're just doing it. It's just like an adaptation to to your environment

57
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:41,120
But now being older and like looking back at my entire life

58
00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:46,000
Knowing I'm autistic because I only knew I was autistic when I was 20

59
00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:53,440
I'm like, wow, all of those behaviors were all adaptations to feel safe in a society

60
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,480
That you know made me feel really unsafe

61
00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:03,080
So anyways going off the perfectionism and the obsessiveness and like seeking external validation

62
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,000
an eating disorder was

63
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,520
Practically landed in my lap when I was around 11 years old

64
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:16,280
Because that's when we started learning about health and nutrition in school and because I was you know, the perfect student

65
00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:20,240
I was like I'm going to become the epitome of a perfect healthy eater

66
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,200
And then my literal thinking style

67
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,520
Just took all of the quote-unquote health recommendations

68
00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:33,720
Very literally. I truly believed, you know, if I eat sugar, I'm going to develop diabetes

69
00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:36,920
And we can talk about sugar in a second

70
00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:44,920
And you know if I eat quote-unquote unhealthy I'm gonna like develop quote-unquote obesity

71
00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,600
I'm gonna get like heart attack because that's what happened

72
00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,040
You know if you eat junk food blotty blotty blah

73
00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:55,000
Everything that you know diet culture conditions us to believe and it's all of course

74
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,720
Craying on our fear and our creying on our insecurities in a way

75
00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,680
Because there's nothing wrong with eating junk food once in a while

76
00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:08,680
I mean I eat something unhealthy every day, but I've never been this healthy in my entire life, right?

77
00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,360
it's even though it's so cliche, you know, it is about the moderation because

78
00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:18,840
Yeah, if you're gonna be eating frickin cinnamon buns all day every day probably not too healthy

79
00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:22,520
but if you obsessed with eating broccoli and

80
00:06:22,840 --> 00:06:29,600
Steamed rice and you know grilled chicken and that's all you eat and you're afraid of eating anything else. That's not healthy either

81
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,880
It's really about that middle ground and I think especially

82
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:40,920
For autistic people with the executive functioning difficulties that come with that. I am now someone

83
00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:42,820
Who you know?

84
00:06:42,820 --> 00:06:48,520
I eat a lot of processed food like most of my dinners are frickin frozen meals because I do not want to be bothered to cook

85
00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:55,080
Because I'm spending my whole day, you know writing and just navigating all the stimulus that never stops

86
00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:01,320
honestly, um, like I said, I've never been this healthy in my entire life because I'm finally

87
00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:09,160
Investing my energy in places that that lights me up and fills my soul. Um, cuz I think you know one of those

88
00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:15,720
Common phrases you're like I just want to be happy. I don't think anyone wants to be happy

89
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:23,040
I think we want to feel fulfilled. We want to have meaning and we want to have purpose doesn't it doesn't not sound about happiness

90
00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:29,760
But anyways, that's a side tangent going back to the story. I yeah, so I just

91
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:35,040
Nutrition and the health and and dieting it just became almost a special interest of mine

92
00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:41,720
And that quickly spiraled into just a full-blown eating disorder within a year

93
00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,000
I was in the hospital because my heart rate was too low

94
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:50,660
Um, I'm a very petite person. I've always had a very high metabolism still do

95
00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,600
which I think is

96
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,360
in part due to being autistic because

97
00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:04,560
My brain is just never shutting off and the brain actually consumes 20% of the body's total energy

98
00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:09,000
So you can imagine if our brains are like going on double time

99
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:14,360
We our brains need more energy and I think that is also why autistic people tend to need more sleep

100
00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,560
We're tired more often because the brain is just never

101
00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:23,440
It's always running. Yeah, it's always running. Yeah, it just shocks me

102
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:29,800
You know when when you talk to another typical person, it's like, what are you thinking about? They're like nothing and I'm like, no, like no

103
00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:36,680
They're like no, like I'm actually not thinking about anything. I was like, how is it? He was possible. Yeah, um

104
00:08:36,680 --> 00:08:39,320
But yeah, so I had an eating disorder

105
00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,280
Because I was of course a minor. I was 12 years old

106
00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:49,080
I was forced into treatment and said like if you don't eat your meal plan like we're gonna put a feeding tube

107
00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:49,840
But down your nose

108
00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:55,280
Well, I did not want a feeding tube because I was like that is gonna completely take control away from me

109
00:08:55,400 --> 00:09:02,160
So then it was like okay instead of the eating disorder like the purpose is gonna be the meal plan

110
00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,840
I'm gonna be this perfect meal plan follower

111
00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,000
Um, and of course that came with weight gain, but

112
00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:13,600
Century-wise I was like I I cannot handle this and I think that's one of the biggest

113
00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,000
misconceptions about you know fear of weight gain and

114
00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:23,200
And eating disorders in autistic people's that's like oh fear of being fat or whatever for me

115
00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:29,440
It was never about fear of becoming fat. I never had body dysmorphia

116
00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:34,360
I never saw myself as fat. Um, it was really a century thing

117
00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:38,560
Um, because I am just so incredibly sensitive like I

118
00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:43,960
Don't even need to own a skill for me to know if I've gained a pound like I will feel that

119
00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:50,520
like just the way everything fits and feels and things touching that you don't want to touch and it just

120
00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:57,160
And fullness was also something so scary to me. Um, cuz I was like I want to crawl out of my skin

121
00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,960
I want to like unzip my body and just jump out and run away

122
00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,480
Which of course is is tied to that

123
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,400
Autistic fight-or-flight mode in a sense

124
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,660
And I think that is what an eating disorder does in a way

125
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:17,260
Numbs you so much that you don't have to feel confronted with those existential questions and with that

126
00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:23,200
discomfort of being inhabited in the physical body basically, um

127
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,840
So yeah, I was just forced in and out of treatment for years

128
00:10:26,840 --> 00:10:33,160
Um constantly like being kicked out and oh, well, she's too complex like she's non-compliant

129
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:38,000
She's treatment resistant because the whole thing was bullshit to me

130
00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,760
I'm sorry. I don't know if you're allowed to swear on you. It's okay

131
00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:44,800
But it's like, you know, you were talking about like oh

132
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:50,660
There's like a deep dark hole of trauma like you coping with food and you coping with your emotions

133
00:10:50,660 --> 00:10:57,420
I'm like you guys do not know what you're even talking about and just the therapies that I did like

134
00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:03,040
DBT and CBT and we did like family-based therapy with the parents take over the food

135
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:09,560
Which is the worst thing you can do to an autistic person because we need autonomy and we need control

136
00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:12,480
Yeah, so if you yeah, so if you're gonna take that away from us

137
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:19,560
Well, we're just gonna latch onto the eating disorder even more so because you know, that was the evidence-based approach

138
00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:25,440
Which I mean evidence-based could better be called evidence bias your typical evidence bias

139
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:30,160
Yeah, right and like it goes to men it would mentioning like lobotomies

140
00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:32,520
We're freaking evidence-based too

141
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:39,760
but that was basically turning brains into men's meat and a lot of autistic people and schizophrenic people and

142
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:44,360
No-divergent people were lobotomized because their brains were wrong

143
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:50,960
Um side-tension, but yeah, so after just probably over seven years of being kicked in and out of treatment

144
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:56,440
It was like okay, like she's never going to get better because this is just hopeless

145
00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:03,000
And from there kind of everything went really downhill my eating disorder got probably the worst it ever had

146
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,800
I really was on the edge of death at some point

147
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,160
until in

148
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,560
2017 I was like I

149
00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:14,760
Can't I can't do this anymore?

150
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:20,840
Like I know that this is serving a purpose and I'm terrified of living and existing in this

151
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,240
Meaningless world

152
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,840
Which at the time that's what it felt like and I was like, well, I have two options, you know

153
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,160
either I let this illness kill me or I

154
00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:38,200
See what life could be like and I knew in my heart the only way that I could

155
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,520
See what life could be like

156
00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,520
Was if I allowed myself to fully experience it. Um

157
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,240
So yeah, that was hard

158
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:52,560
I'm not gonna go into the whole recovery because that's a whole nother rabbit hole in and of itself, but in

159
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,320
2020 I was

160
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:57,840
Like recovered from my eating disorder

161
00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,000
I'd say you know as far as I believed one could recover

162
00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:07,200
And I started coaching people because I had an Instagram at the time. I had my blog at the time

163
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,880
I was writing a lot at the time. That was my outlet and

164
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:16,200
People just really resonated with my story and the too complex and the hopeless

165
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:22,800
And my very first client actually was autistic. I didn't know anything about autism at the time

166
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,000
I was like, okay, you're autistic like tell me more about yourself

167
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:32,520
And as we were talking and as she was explaining, you know how being autistic

168
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,160
contributed to her eating disorder, I was like

169
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,160
holy

170
00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,560
Shit like this is me. This is my entire life

171
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,080
and then as any

172
00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:48,680
Curious autistic person would do I amose myself in everything I could learn about autism

173
00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:51,720
I read probably like 10 books in a week. Um

174
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:57,400
Just learning like about the traits and how it manifests like specifically in girls and women

175
00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:59,800
And I was like, yep

176
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:00,480
This is me

177
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,040
Like I basically just like self diagnosed myself on the spot right there and I was like

178
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,880
I don't care what any professional says I am autistic

179
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:13,600
Because it just it was the thing that clarified my entire life and almost gave me a reason

180
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:19,040
To make peace with my existence in a way because I was like, I'm not some of course

181
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,040
I'm an anomaly because everyone's an anomaly

182
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:23,920
Right, but it was like wow

183
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:28,800
I'm not that alien that doesn't belong here and that was a huge

184
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:34,360
Permission slip for me to exist on this planet and to stop feeling guilty for existing

185
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:42,200
Um, I think that's what an autism diagnosis self-diagnosed or professionally diagnosed tend to do to you is it gives you permission to exist

186
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,320
To stop feeling the guilt and the shame for being you

187
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,240
Yeah, ever since that first client and learning about autism

188
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:56,600
I just started learning more and more about the overlap between autism and eating disorders and just

189
00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:01,600
More and more shocked about how no one was talking about this how there was no awareness around it

190
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:08,320
Looking back at my own treatment. I was like, wow like so much of this trauma that I had to endure

191
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,520
Wouldn't have been there if the autism had been understood and accommodated

192
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,640
Um, see ever since that I've just been focusing on spreading

193
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,600
Um stories of lived experience also through my own podcast sharing, you know

194
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,160
Common topics and questions that come up around the link

195
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,400
and yeah, so that's basically the live label free podcast and

196
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:37,080
Label free because I believe that you know a life of freedom and a life without restrictions

197
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:45,080
Can only be led when you stop placing labels on yourself and you stop placing judgment on yourself in the way you do things

198
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,480
And of course the question always comes up and what is an autism a label?

199
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:54,200
And I'm like, yeah, of course it is and so isn't eating disorder and so is freaking a computer

200
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:59,520
And so is the light bulb. They're all labels because that's how we talk to each other. That's how we communicate

201
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,040
Labels are not inherently a bad thing

202
00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:07,880
But I think when we use labels from place of fear of like non-compliant treatment resistant

203
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:10,800
problematic

204
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,440
Rigid, you know, these labels are not helpful

205
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:19,040
It's all about you know, what's your intention behind the label and at the same time?

206
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,640
I feel like we can only be our true selves when we say, you know

207
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:29,240
I I can be myself and I can exist fully without any label even autistic like of course

208
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:35,000
I'm autistic but like without the autistic label like I'm still me. Um

209
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,880
Yeah, it's very nuanced which has was like the

210
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,800
Yeah, yeah, I know what you're saying

211
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:47,400
Yeah, and I think that's a very common autistic treat is just nuancing

212
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:53,040
Everything but because that thinking style can almost make us paranoid

213
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:58,040
I think that's in a way why we turn to the black and white because we're like if we do that

214
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,040
We don't have to deal with our nuanced thoughts

215
00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:05,840
But I've come to learn that my nuanced way of thinking is my greatest superpower

216
00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:12,480
I think that's what allows me to see things that other people cannot see and I think that's what allows autistic people to

217
00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:18,360
Create things that other people could never create because we're able to read between the lines

218
00:17:19,360 --> 00:17:26,200
So yeah, speaking of reading between the lines and reading in books rainbow girl is my memoir

219
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:31,880
Basically a very very deep dive into the brief story. I just shared

220
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:36,600
Just really outlining and illustrating my life growing up undiagnosed autistic

221
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,200
I explain, you know

222
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:45,240
How the nutrition class and all the factors that contributed to my eating disorder how that manifested?

223
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,000
I also just share, you know

224
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:54,040
How harmful treatment was and what people especially parents can look out for?

225
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,720
When if they have you know a child who is losing eating disorders

226
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:06,120
Treatment so they can better support their child because I think there's a lot of shame and blame put on parents

227
00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:08,640
I know for my own parents, you know

228
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:14,520
They were told, you know, if you don't do this SBT, if you don't put your kid in treatment

229
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,240
You're making a really bad parental decision. Well

230
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:24,400
And you know, they just want the best and it's like well if they're the professionals like we must listen to them

231
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:30,720
But then it's of course ironic because when you kicked out of treatment, then suddenly the professionals are off the hook

232
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,120
It's like it just has to convenience them

233
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:39,880
It's like we throw your kid back to you. Good luck. Now the treatment is suddenly not the best thing anymore

234
00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:43,920
Um, so yeah that and then of course like towards the end of the bucket

235
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:45,360
It's all about you know

236
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:50,080
What what I did to truly let go of my eating disorder and to leave that behind me because

237
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:57,240
Another common misconception about eating disorders is that it's something you just like kind of going to have like in your view of your

238
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:02,960
Mirror for the rest of your life, but no like the eating disorder is fully behind me

239
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,960
And I really like the metaphor because I'm writing a new book now

240
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:14,480
I really and I came up with this metaphor of like when you're baking cookies, like you obviously start with like raw cookie dough

241
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:20,280
Um, and then you bake the cookies in the oven and through that heat process like you can never

242
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,640
Unbaked the cookies again, like you can no matter what you do. You can put them in the freezer

243
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,640
You can never turn them back into raw dough

244
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:33,520
That is how I see recovery from eating disorder. I can never go back there because I've baked my cookies

245
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:40,000
And I've gone on to even more complex recipes, um, of course metaphorically

246
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,920
Speaking um, but yeah, that's kind of me in a nutshell

247
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:49,440
Um and and rainbow girl and it's also worth mentioning that I have a cookbook noticing no diversity

248
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:56,000
Um, if anyone's interested, I will definitely add the information for that as well. Yes. Okay

249
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:04,080
I also while there's I just there are a lot of things like I was I resonated with really strongly that you were saying

250
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:12,080
Um, I was also diagnosed relatively late in life. It was a little bit earlier. I was 16, but it was still

251
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:18,320
Later than I would have wished because um, even though

252
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:20,800
society

253
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:28,880
I still have my questions about like if society would have been more accommodating to how how much more accommodating it would have been

254
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:38,240
But I know that I would have been a lot more understanding and of myself and tolerant towards myself because what happened I

255
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:44,320
I had a lot of the same kind of um complex that you were describing about thinking

256
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,400
That I was just like a broken neurotypical that like why

257
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:54,320
Can't I do these things like everyone else? Why don't I do these things?

258
00:20:54,320 --> 00:21:03,600
Why can't I do these things like everyone else? Why don't I understand these norms that everyone else seems to understand and

259
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,840
Why do these sensory things bother me more?

260
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:12,720
Than other people they're just like all these things started making

261
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,680
So much more sense and then you know, it also led to like for me

262
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:25,280
Um, also, you know like seeking validation a lot like always being hyper aware and

263
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:33,440
Hyper analyzing what other people's perceptions of me were even like during a conversation. I'll be doing that

264
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:35,200
and then

265
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,920
Yeah, it's hard because then I like I can't fully be in the conversation a lot of times

266
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,880
Because i'm like, how is this person perceiving me?

267
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:50,400
And then I go home and i'm like in bed and i'm still thinking about it and the other person might be completely like

268
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,240
They it's not even in their head. It's been long gone

269
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:59,520
And for me i'm like still thinking about it and and you mentioned also like

270
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,560
how we're always

271
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,400
Processing information and I saw there was like a statistic

272
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:09,120
lately from a study that

273
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:15,120
Autistic people process an average of 44 more information than neurotypical brains

274
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:22,240
I love that you mentioned that also regarding the metabolism I was talking about because I have a podcast episode

275
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,480
Coming out next week

276
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,240
Um, obviously, I don't know what that is in reference to this episode coming out

277
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:33,280
But it's going to be called autism and erection and metabolism and there actually have been studies

278
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:39,840
Um, that's how I knew about the 20 brain energy consumption thing and it turns out that

279
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,720
There have been a few studies that have found that

280
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:48,880
Autistic brains actually have like have up to 67 more neurons

281
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:54,480
Which are like the building blocks of the nervous system in the brain. So I mean obviously if there's more

282
00:22:55,020 --> 00:22:59,360
Connections, there's gonna be more activity more, you know calories burned

283
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:06,720
Um, which I think is just fascinating. Yeah, it is no and it just helps it's even just like that

284
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,280
snippet of information and

285
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:17,280
It helps me understand so much about why i'm constantly thinking and like my brain is constantly activated

286
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:22,000
And the fact that it's not just that but like like you said how the brain

287
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:29,380
Consumes a lot of energy. So it's like of course i'm always drained and exhausted and

288
00:23:29,860 --> 00:23:34,020
And that's one of the things that's been the hardest I think like throughout life

289
00:23:34,740 --> 00:23:39,780
in terms of getting neurotypicals to understand that or non-autistic people or like

290
00:23:40,660 --> 00:23:44,020
Even like my sister and my mom who are like

291
00:23:45,460 --> 00:23:50,740
Not autistic or at least have very different experiences. Um

292
00:23:50,740 --> 00:23:52,020
and

293
00:23:52,020 --> 00:23:57,780
And it's like they don't seem to understand that like it's always running

294
00:23:57,860 --> 00:24:00,500
I can't just turn it off like my sisters were like

295
00:24:01,540 --> 00:24:06,740
So often telling me to just not think about it or to just relax and it bugs me

296
00:24:09,380 --> 00:24:11,940
Like I if I wanted to I would

297
00:24:12,740 --> 00:24:18,980
Right. Yeah. No, that's so funny because I was talking to a client yesterday. We were talking about just how stupid meditation

298
00:24:18,980 --> 00:24:24,420
is um, because the amount of times i've been told like have you tried meditation and i'm like

299
00:24:25,700 --> 00:24:28,180
Have I tried meditation like is that a joke?

300
00:24:28,660 --> 00:24:34,740
And and someone actually commented on my instagram. I had done a post. Why is it so hard to be with my thoughts?

301
00:24:35,220 --> 00:24:36,180
um

302
00:24:36,180 --> 00:24:40,020
Someone literally commented. I was like, I think you're in the wrong place

303
00:24:40,660 --> 00:24:45,460
Because I commented like you should try meditation seeing the thoughts as clouds just

304
00:24:45,460 --> 00:24:52,760
Floating by and me and my client were just just broke out laughing because we were like they're not fucking clouds

305
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,640
If they were clouds, they would be clouds

306
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:57,480
They're not

307
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:03,480
And I think that's one of those things how you you know, we're like we are so in a sense able to see through like

308
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:07,880
Like what are you even talking about? Whereas other people are so almost

309
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:14,120
Lost and like oh someone told me that my thoughts are like clouds. They must be like clouds

310
00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:17,400
clouds without even thinking like but they're not fucking clouds

311
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,960
Yeah, exactly. It's so hard to explain but it's just that can

312
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,600
You can hear it in sort just from my tone of voice

313
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:32,040
But like that can get me so frustrated so nice because i'm like how do you not see what you're saying does not make any sense

314
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:37,720
Yeah, exactly and and it relates also to like I think what you were saying about how

315
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:46,620
Neurotypical people they just naturally like go with all these norms and constructs even when they make no sense

316
00:25:47,540 --> 00:25:51,100
right and it's like and i'm and then and it

317
00:25:51,460 --> 00:25:54,180
One of the things that bugs me the most about it

318
00:25:54,180 --> 00:25:57,740
Not only is it so confused confusing and perplexing to me

319
00:25:57,740 --> 00:26:03,820
I'm like, all right, aren't you guys like questioning this or do you guys notice this and but they

320
00:26:03,820 --> 00:26:09,420
Get upset with me when I point it out. They're like they treat me

321
00:26:09,980 --> 00:26:16,580
Like the weird person right when i'm simply pointing out that something isn't accurate

322
00:26:17,260 --> 00:26:22,980
and the reason yeah, the reason why of course they do that is because you're

323
00:26:23,980 --> 00:26:31,260
Challenging the story they're telling you themselves and the human mind will do anything it can to maintain

324
00:26:31,260 --> 00:26:36,460
The story because if you're going to say well the story you're telling yourself is is an illusion

325
00:26:36,460 --> 00:26:40,620
Well, that is that is the biggest blow to the to the human ego

326
00:26:40,620 --> 00:26:46,300
And if we don't know who we are or who we believe we are well, then what's left of us?

327
00:26:46,300 --> 00:26:52,620
I mean, that's the scariest thing to be confronted with and I know we're getting really philosophical here

328
00:26:52,620 --> 00:26:58,060
I think you know that is exactly why we have wars and we have

329
00:26:58,060 --> 00:27:04,700
Conflicts is because just just take me a really simple like say of two political leaders one is saying

330
00:27:05,340 --> 00:27:09,100
This is my view of the world. This is the only way it is

331
00:27:09,660 --> 00:27:16,620
And the only reason I can live with myself is to fully immerse myself in that story because if I

332
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:19,980
even question the possibility of that well

333
00:27:20,540 --> 00:27:26,380
No, I can't deal with that because then then the possibility become endless and existential ends

334
00:27:26,380 --> 00:27:31,180
I can't face that and someone else who's believing the opposite story saying no

335
00:27:31,180 --> 00:27:36,300
Well, this is how it is and if we can't agree well, then we must fight to the death

336
00:27:36,860 --> 00:27:41,740
Because your story needs to be eradicated and now I'm gonna hire all my soldiers to help

337
00:27:42,300 --> 00:27:46,860
Um, and then we you know have these world issues and then when you

338
00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:51,340
Think about it when you look at it from an objective point of view you're like

339
00:27:51,340 --> 00:27:56,940
Like what is this even about like this is like this is like two toddlers like fighting about the yeah

340
00:27:56,940 --> 00:28:01,900
Like that is what it is and it's like I I truly believe that you know

341
00:28:02,620 --> 00:28:09,900
Well, we would have world peace if every single person would would be open to acknowledging like

342
00:28:09,900 --> 00:28:12,300
Well, maybe my story isn't

343
00:28:12,940 --> 00:28:14,940
everything

344
00:28:14,940 --> 00:28:16,380
Exactly

345
00:28:16,380 --> 00:28:16,940
Yeah, yeah

346
00:28:16,940 --> 00:28:25,900
Yeah, because I I sense that a lot like people they do not want to be it like makes them feel

347
00:28:28,380 --> 00:28:34,860
We like they can't just be wrong about something like and it's okay, but it's really like

348
00:28:36,140 --> 00:28:42,460
I've noticed like I think especially for neurotypicals. It's like more challenging because like for me. I'm like

349
00:28:42,460 --> 00:28:49,420
Okay, I was wrong about this like this I can I can very easily like at least at this point in my life I can

350
00:28:50,220 --> 00:28:53,340
Acknowledge and it doesn't it's like to me. It's like, okay

351
00:28:53,340 --> 00:28:59,340
Like there's nothing wrong with being wrong about something but to some people it's like such a core

352
00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:08,380
Insult to them if you if you say something that challenges their their belief and they have to like defend it to the core

353
00:29:08,380 --> 00:29:11,900
So, yeah, I definitely relate to that

354
00:29:12,540 --> 00:29:14,540
and yeah, I

355
00:29:15,340 --> 00:29:17,500
Also, I just think it's really

356
00:29:18,860 --> 00:29:20,860
And and I think you know

357
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:24,540
People don't really like when you were saying about

358
00:29:26,140 --> 00:29:32,460
How the autism diagnosis like discovering you were out even before the diagnosis like when you just

359
00:29:32,460 --> 00:29:36,860
When you realize that you were autistic, you know self-diagnosed or professional diagnosed it

360
00:29:37,420 --> 00:29:43,420
Even when you just make that realization. Oh, I am like my brain works in a different way

361
00:29:44,380 --> 00:29:47,740
It's so validating and like how and it can have

362
00:29:48,620 --> 00:29:50,620
Such an impact and I think

363
00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:54,220
People don't understand because like I see

364
00:29:55,500 --> 00:29:57,500
Like I'm so tired of like

365
00:29:57,500 --> 00:30:06,460
The gas lining that happens online when yeah, it like autistic people are just like going online and sharing their experiences and talking about it

366
00:30:06,460 --> 00:30:13,740
Being autistic, but there's it just bothers. I don't understand but some people get so bothered and triggered by it

367
00:30:14,540 --> 00:30:18,620
They and then they start calling us trendy or that we want attention or and it's like no, it's an experience

368
00:30:19,100 --> 00:30:25,180
It's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like it's like

369
00:30:25,180 --> 00:30:28,620
No, it's an experience. It's not. Yeah

370
00:30:29,260 --> 00:30:31,260
also the whole like

371
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,720
neurotypical is being like why is everyone getting diagnosed

372
00:30:35,820 --> 00:30:38,540
Nowadays, it's just a trend. You're just trying to talk about it

373
00:30:39,340 --> 00:30:44,940
And like I think so many people are getting diagnosed neurodivergent nowadays because

374
00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:48,060
We have not been acknowledged for the past

375
00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:51,680
Past in history, you know, and I actually saw

376
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:58,040
a really popular eating disorder recovery person posted something on YouTube and I was just,

377
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:04,160
I could not believe it because they said, they were talking about, someone had commented

378
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,720
on one of their videos, you know, how is eating disorder recovery different for neurodivergent

379
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:14,240
people? Probably because this person is just very, I won't name names, but very popular

380
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:19,360
in the eating disorder recovery space, written a book and everything, and she's talking in

381
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:24,120
her video and she's like, everyone's getting diagnosed with ADHD and autism left and right,

382
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:29,040
they're just popping up and you know, it doesn't matter if you're neurodivergent, I don't care

383
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,120
if you're neurodivergent, recovery from eating disorder is going to be the exact same for

384
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:39,480
you as it is for anyone else, and I was just watching this and I was like, clearly or not

385
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:45,280
neurodivergent, and I'm like, I cannot even believe you have the audacity to say this

386
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:53,240
as someone who clearly has no humility around the possibility of there being an alternative

387
00:31:53,240 --> 00:32:00,360
approach. I think kind of that's the danger of gaining, you know, celebrity status in

388
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:05,600
any kind of space is you're like, I know everything and you lose your humility, and that's what

389
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,800
happens with treatment professionals a lot of the time, that's what happened to me, you

390
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,840
know, is the medical gaslighting is like, I've been working as a professional eating

391
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,280
disorder psychologist for the past 50 years, and I've treated hundreds and thousands of

392
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:25,280
patients. So if you are not getting better, and my care will obviously cannot be my care,

393
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,440
it must be you that's the problem, must be you that's too complex, and I'm like, too

394
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,520
complex, like, when did we say eating disorder is your autism or any kind of mental health

395
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:40,560
condition? When did we say it's simple? I mean, that's what defines a condition is something

396
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:47,080
that is freaking perplexing. Exactly. Yeah, it's it's ridiculous. But yeah, as you can

397
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:52,000
tell, I'm getting really riled up. But this that's why I'm so passionate about this, because

398
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:57,880
I think that is again, like, where I found my life's purpose is I'm so I found something

399
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:04,000
that I'm so incredibly passionate about, that I'm able to creatively turn that into something

400
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:09,000
that contributes beyond me and helps other people. And I think that is ultimately the

401
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:14,240
purpose of life. Like I said, it's not about being happy. It's about being so incredibly

402
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:21,360
passionate about your craft, your art, that you can contribute beyond yourself. Yeah,

403
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,920
definitely. I think that's a really powerful statement, because people get so caught up

404
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:34,920
in not just like the term is like their idea of like, the idea that it's just about being

405
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:42,040
happy. But also like what what being happy means to them is usually, though, they'll

406
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:47,840
go straight to like, how much money they're gonna make or whatever, like, and it's like,

407
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,800
obviously, it is important to like have enough money to be able to survive. But it's also

408
00:33:52,800 --> 00:34:03,680
like not. It shouldn't be. I don't think it's that should be the goal of life is like, get

409
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:10,360
a super high paying job and like high paying status. It's an external circumstance. I mean,

410
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,040
this is actually funny, because that same client who I was talking about the meditation

411
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:22,200
in the clouds. We would just talk about how money itself is such a silly thing. It's made

412
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:29,080
up. We made it up. We made, we made it so important. And I mean, studies have consistently

413
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:34,080
shown and like billionaires and gazillionaires consistently like come out and on interviews

414
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:40,600
and say like, the more money I made, the more I realized how meaningless money is, there's

415
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,200
not gonna it's not gonna buy you anything like, yeah, you can have a nicer, shinier

416
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:50,120
car. And just like a psychologist can go to more use of med school to get a bigger, shinier

417
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:55,040
diploma. But it's like, I don't, I don't care what's hanging on your wall, what's in your

418
00:34:55,040 --> 00:35:01,680
garage, or like, how big your house is like, that anything that is external is not that

419
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,520
doesn't come from inside you is not going to give you meaning and fulfillment. And I

420
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:13,360
think the delusion of the human mind is that we think that we can somehow compensate our

421
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:18,920
internal fulfillment with external things. But the more you you delude yourself, the

422
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:24,800
more unfocused you become because you're sucking your own possibility of internal fulfillment

423
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:29,080
you're sucking it in these external things are sucking it out of you. I don't even know

424
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,480
where I'm going with this. But that's something I've definitely learned.

425
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:39,480
I see what you what you mean. Yeah, because like, I see this happen a lot with like, not

426
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:45,840
even just society. But I mean, obviously, like, it's happened to me before. But because

427
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:58,080
of like people around me, just trying just like, yeah, like, making it like, oh, no,

428
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:07,840
focusing on all these external things. And, you know, just like the definition in this

429
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:17,000
modern capitalistic society of what success means, or is supposed to look like or like,

430
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:23,800
oh, what have I what have I produced and accomplished and like, just the meaning of accomplishment

431
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:30,600
as well. Like, I feel like it's very, the way it's defined is very narrow. It's a very

432
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:36,960
subjective thing. Because I mean, like I said, I thought, you know, I would be accomplished,

433
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,080
but like, let's take that money thing, for example, like people say, oh, I'll be accomplished

434
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:46,200
when I'm making like seven figures a year. But it's like, if you were living all by yourself

435
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,880
and have no one you can spend time with, because you're so obsessed with earning more money,

436
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:57,600
it's like, how successful are you if you have no one to share your success with? And for

437
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:04,160
me, the I feel more successful than ever, because of the connections I've made, and

438
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:09,000
I've been able to make those connections through creating my art, you know, through contributing

439
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,640
beyond myself, like, even just, you know, you emailing me and saying, like, I love listening

440
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:19,520
to your podcast. I'm like, this is what it means to be human is to connect with other

441
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:24,800
humans. When I, you know, receive messages from people who've read my book, are like,

442
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:30,480
wow, like, I finally understand myself. And especially from parenting, oh, my god, like,

443
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:35,400
I understand my kid now. I'm like, that like, I don't care if I'm living in a cabin with

444
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:41,120
like, earning $1 a day. Like, as long as we have human connection, we don't need anything

445
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:49,080
else. It's true. Yeah, it's and I, it's so overlooked, like that connection aspect, because

446
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:57,040
it's like, like, even when I talk to people about my podcast, and like, stuff like that,

447
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:04,480
I feel like they still like they see it in a different angle, like they're more they

448
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:09,920
see it like just by numbers and everything. And I'm like, it's not about like the number

449
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:18,840
it's nice to the I like when I talk about numbers, it's because I'm because I like how

450
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:25,240
oh my god, it's like impacting these people. It's not about like followers, like not about

451
00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:31,400
clout. It's about like it's an impacting these many people. And I've had like, people reach

452
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:36,880
out to me and say like, my podcast has really helped them feel seen and understood and understand

453
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:43,080
themselves. And, you know, just like you were talking about how like, discovering that you

454
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:49,000
were autistic helped your eating disorder recovery journey. And it helped you understand

455
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:54,920
your eating disorder behaviors better. And like it's and they can do so many like that's

456
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,880
an example of what it did for you. And they can do so many different things for so many

457
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:09,160
of us. And yeah, again, what you said about the numbers and the cloud, it's, it's so nuanced,

458
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,080
because it's not about the number itself, but it's about what's underneath the number,

459
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:18,360
because of course, I'm the same, like, I may check my book, selling statistics a little

460
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:23,240
more than I care to admit. But you know, when I see that so many copies have been sold,

461
00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:29,080
I'm like, oh my gosh, I reached this many new people that can discover more about themselves.

462
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:35,240
You know, it's not about the 15 on the screen or the 200 on the screen. It's who's behind

463
00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:41,480
that 15 who's behind that 200. And I think that's where, you know, again, with the nuance

464
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:47,400
of like, like I said, with with the numbers, oh my god, my brain is doing that thing where

465
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:52,760
it thinks too fast and then forgets what it's gonna say because my words can't keep up.

466
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:58,840
Oh, which is why autistic people tend to talk very fast. Yeah, where was I going? Yeah,

467
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,280
it's about it's about, you know, what's underneath the number and what's underneath the external

468
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:08,520
circumstance. And I think that's why what tends to happen is we get lost and we confuse that fact,

469
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:14,200
we think, oh, well, it must be that only about the external circumstance. But the moment we lose our

470
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,920
intention behind why we want that circumstance, well, then there's no point in the journey

471
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:24,680
anymore. So I think it's really important for anyone, you know, to remember when you are

472
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:30,280
striving for so many downloads or like getting on like the New York Times bestselling list for

473
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:37,400
authors, whatever, is, you know, why do I want this? Like what actual true fulfillment is in this?

474
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:43,000
And if it is, you know, coming down to, well, then I can reach more people I can connect,

475
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,760
well, then it's worth it. But if it's like, oh, I just want that so I can tell people how much money

476
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:52,040
I made. I'm like, no one's gonna care. Yeah, at least not. I'm not gonna care. Like, because

477
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:56,920
I see, because like, I noticed, like, in neurotypical culture, how

478
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:06,280
Yeah, it's just like, there's all this emphasis on, oh, this person studied at such and such

479
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:14,200
university and, and is the art and is on such panel or whatever this and that. And it's like,

480
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:19,640
and that's like, what's most people like, it's, because like, I'm, I can tell, like, oh, they're

481
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:24,680
trying to hype this person up for a certain amount, like a group of people that think a certain way.

482
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:31,000
But I'm like, yeah, but I don't really care, like where he went to school or how much money he makes,

483
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:37,960
I care about like, what, who is he as a person? What are his values? I care about like, well, what

484
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:44,520
did you do that, like, is going against conformity? That's what I look for. And it's super funny,

485
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:50,120
because I always tell people that, you know, I love when people talk about their problems.

486
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:55,080
And I think, you know, there's this thing of like, oh, my God, I have so many issues, but

487
00:41:55,080 --> 00:42:00,120
that's what makes you interesting. And I think that's what that's why people are interested in

488
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:05,000
stories. And that's why we love reading books is because like, I could read, read a book that

489
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:11,400
literally is, John woke up, he sat down, read the newspaper, drink his coffee, he spent the whole

490
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:16,840
day looking at the flowers, and then he went to bed. Well, technically, that's a story. But no

491
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:22,200
one is going to be interested because there's no problem. Like, if you know, John woke up and he

492
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:27,320
went outside, and suddenly there was a tiger in his yard that was about to attack him. It's like,

493
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:33,640
now I'm interested, what is John going to do to solve the problem? Yeah. And I think that's why,

494
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:38,920
you know, when I meet people, and I, I very quickly asked like, okay, what's your life story?

495
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,920
And they've had no problems. I'm like, I'm sorry, but I cannot engage with you.

496
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:48,760
Because clearly, like you've not learned important lessons that you can only learn

497
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:53,560
once you have to go through hardship. And I think that is what makes autistic people

498
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:59,480
so incredibly rich as humans is, of course, it's terrible that we've endured really hard

499
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:05,640
stuff and often have been traumatized in the process. But I think when you learn to turn that

500
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:12,360
mess right into a message, that is, that is creating art. That is the purpose of human existence

501
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:17,960
is you're turning whatever hardship or fear or whatever you endured, you're turning it into

502
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:23,960
something that contributes beyond yourself. I mean, the world's greatest artists and masterpieces

503
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:29,800
and singers and whatever, like when you ask them about their life story, it's you know,

504
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:37,160
I had a really hard childhood, I was really poor, music was my outlet, art was my way of expressing

505
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:42,760
myself. And what does it all come down to? Connection. Because we connect with the people

506
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:48,840
who are showing our art and they say, I'm really feeling myself in this song because I had a hard

507
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,880
childhood too, you know, but if we're gonna write a song about how pretty the daisies are outside,

508
00:43:53,880 --> 00:44:00,200
it's like, no one's gonna listen to that. Because it's too perfect. Yeah. And it's like, yeah,

509
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:09,560
and I was just thinking, like, I was realizing that just because of like this, like these social

510
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:16,840
norms, like these neurotypical social norms and stuff, I feel like people are usually averse to

511
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:23,480
like real connection and like talking about their experiences. And that's so sad to me, because it's

512
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:30,840
like, not only is it like, when I start talking about this stuff and starting to connect, it's

513
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:39,000
like, it comes off as off-putting to them. And it's just to me, it's so much more valuable than

514
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:44,280
small talk. It's like, no, I want to get to the meat. I want to talk about my traumas. I want to

515
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:53,800
like connect. And it's also like, they feel like they can't talk about or they're just,

516
00:44:55,160 --> 00:45:01,160
yeah, they feel like they can't talk about their stuff. And then it's like, they just want to keep

517
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:06,280
reverting to like small talk. And that's one of the things that bothers me so much about small talk.

518
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:13,000
It's like, yeah, there's no meat, there's no juice to the, there's no juice at all. We're just like,

519
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:18,920
I mean, it's interesting because it's like, I actually have a special interest in weather. So

520
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:24,040
like, I will talk about, but I'll start breaking it down because I've noticed because people use

521
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:31,320
weather as small talk. And they like, they'll talk about it and they expect it to be like a 30 minute

522
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:37,720
brush on the, no, a 30 second brush on the weather, but I'll give them a 30 minute brush. I'll

523
00:45:37,720 --> 00:45:43,080
I'll go info dump about it. They're like, oh, it's supposed to rain today. Oh, it's a little chilly.

524
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:47,480
And I'll start talking all about the weather patterns and the wind and why it's chilly and

525
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:51,560
why it's raining. And because this air mass is coming from here and we have the winds gonna

526
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:57,800
well, it kind of going back to like the beginning of the conversation, like the conversation, like,

527
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,800
okay, well, if we're going to talk about weather, we're going to talk about weather. It's like,

528
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:07,640
it's going to have a purpose. And I think that is what it means to live with intention. It's like,

529
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:16,120
if you do something, do it, not half do it or like kind of do it, but do it. And I think that's

530
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:22,920
how I am with everything. And I think it's a strength, but it's also a Achilles heel because

531
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:28,760
I think in a way, if I want to start something and I know that there's a possibility that I won't

532
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:35,080
finish it or that I won't even start because I'm like, like I either do it or I don't. And

533
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:39,640
and I think, you know, that that is so important to be fully able to immerse yourself in that

534
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:45,720
experience. And actually, my Airbnb host, it was so serendipitous, but she's autistic and her son

535
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:52,120
is autistic and her husband is ADHD. We didn't even know when I came here. And she was saying

536
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:56,280
how like, she hates going to parties because whenever she goes to parties, and she's in a

537
00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:01,480
conversation, the person will be like, okay, well, I have to go and she'll be like, she'll get so

538
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:06,920
annoyed because she won't be able to complete the conversation. Exactly. I feel that too. Like I

539
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:13,400
get into this conversation, I'm super into it. And then the person has to leave or like they start

540
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:18,680
talking about something else or like, especially if it's in a group, it's really hard. Like that's

541
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:25,320
why groups are so hard for me because it's like, it's just too much at once. It's too many. Exactly.

542
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:30,920
Yeah, I can't. I'm the same. And I think in eating disorder treatment, like it was all group therapy.

543
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:37,160
And that was just so not helpful. And I often joke about, it's not a joke, like it actually happened.

544
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:43,000
But I just bring it in a really funny way how doing group therapy, like we would all be holding

545
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:48,520
our like dialectical behavioral therapy books, which is like this big textbook. And I'm like,

546
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:56,040
why are you making like 16 year old kids read this? Like as if as if reading textbooks written by rich

547
00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:01,000
white guys is going to magically make us recover from the eating disorder. Like the system, like

548
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:07,000
when you think about it, like that's like, what kind of billion dollar industry is this? Like what

549
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:11,560
are we even? Anyways, I would be like, this is so pointless. I knew this was bullshit. So I would

550
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:18,360
like hide like Sudoku books in the dvd. Yeah, just be doing that. And it was, yeah, I mean,

551
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:25,240
yeah, just so silly. And I think this, but this is one of those things of like, the professionals,

552
00:48:25,240 --> 00:48:31,800
they don't want to have to face the possibility that their methods are not, don't make any sense,

553
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:36,760
because to do that would be literally to sacrifice and challenge your entire sense of

554
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:43,160
your identity. And we don't want our identity to be challenged. So we're going to pretend that

555
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:47,560
everything is fine. And if someone challenges me, well, then we're going to say the problem,

556
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:57,480
because then at least I'm off the hook. So yeah, anyways, no, exactly. Like I, I relate very much

557
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:03,640
to what you're saying. I have a few more. I just didn't. I wanted to do a quick check on how much

558
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:09,240
time you have because I was like, I felt so bad to say anything because I was like, we were just

559
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:14,760
talking about we're so in the conversation, then someone says they have to go. But yeah, I actually

560
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:20,520
do have a client call on like 20 minutes. Okay, so we can start wrapping up that would be fantastic.

561
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:26,520
Okay, cool. Um, rest all just fell on the floor. Oh, my God.

562
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:33,640
Oh, I'll try to get through these. Pretty. I'm like the start of the chaos.

563
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:43,640
Yeah. Um, so my next question is, what was it like disclosing your neurodivergence to your friends

564
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:50,360
and family? Yeah, well, I think it was very mixed. Um, I must say that I had a very positive

565
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:55,160
general experience. Um, because I know a lot of people when they say like, they're autistic,

566
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,480
their friends and family will be like, you can't be autistic, you're too social, you can't be

567
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:04,680
autistic, you're too smart, you're not obsessed with mouth and trains, body, body, you're not

568
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:11,240
way man. Um, and funny thing is, I actually had not seen the movie, way man, until everyone started

569
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:16,680
talking about it. I was like, Okay, well, I have to watch main man now. Um, but I mean, my mom and

570
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:23,560
my sisters were like, well, duh, like, that doesn't surprise us at all. Um, especially, you know, when

571
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:27,320
when reading books about it and stuff, because it was like, yeah, this is just Olivia, this is who

572
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:36,040
you are. Um, I think the only person that resisted the fact that I was autistic was my dad, who's also

573
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:43,400
autistic. But it's because he refuses it in himself, because, because he has this really

574
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:50,360
stereotypical idea of what autistic means. I remember, because I basically diagnosed my dad

575
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:54,840
with with autism when I knew about it, because I was like, Oh, my God, this makes so much sense.

576
00:50:54,840 --> 00:51:01,960
Like, this is why we're so similar in a way, um, why he was always overstimulated by everything. Um,

577
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:07,960
and, yeah, just always complaining that everything was too loud, and to this and to that and whatever,

578
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:14,120
um, just life was too much for him, like he could not handle things. And, um, I remember saying like,

579
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:20,920
Dad, you're totally autistic. And he was like, No, I'm too social. Like, I went to university, I

580
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:27,080
got I graduated college, and no way I can be autistic. And I'm like, like, how are those things

581
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:35,320
related? Um, but I think that that's the perfect illustration of the stigma is like, I am too,

582
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:42,120
quote unquote, high functioning to be autistic. Um, but I'm like, well, how like, he was telling

583
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:46,120
me also, like, I started like, of course, challenging him and questioning him, like,

584
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:51,400
okay, well, how many days do you need after you've had a social interaction? He's like,

585
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:57,800
Oh, yeah, like, I can't talk to people for like a week. And I'm like, yeah, like, do we need to say

586
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:02,920
more? And I was like, Well, what about college and university? Like, how was that? And he was

587
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:07,800
like, Oh, yeah, like, it was awful, because I wanted to like, deepen myself in the subjects,

588
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:15,560
but we kept moving on to more subjects. And I was like, Yeah, okay. But, but my but it kind of,

589
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:22,440
I think it's he's been he was very traumatized as a child. And he's very still carrying a lot of

590
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:28,200
trauma in him, because he's, he's not healing that. And I think that is a conscious choice,

591
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:34,120
because he's afraid to be vulnerable, which I think can be really difficult when you have been

592
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:40,200
heavily traumatized in your youngest years. And I think, you know, this saying, like, I can't be

593
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:47,240
able to say like, I'm too functioning, or to this to that, I think it's his, his way of having adapted

594
00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:53,160
to his circumstances to say, like, if I can say that I'm like a normal person that graduated

595
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:58,520
college and is able to socially interact, well, then I don't have to admit that I'm different.

596
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:02,760
And when we don't have to admit that we're different, well, then we're protecting ourselves

597
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:08,600
from being vulnerable. Because in the past, that's what saved our life if we've been traumatized.

598
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:15,400
Um, so kind of to answer your question about what was it like disclosing it, everyone was super

599
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:20,920
receptive. And, you know, everyone who's read my book, and follow my blog and read my podcast, and

600
00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:28,200
especially like knowing and being and seeing the situation, how it was when I was really,

601
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:33,960
really sick, like they're all so proud of me and how I've like, gone through such a hard time

602
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:39,960
into something so great. Um, but yeah, like, literally the only person that still challenges

603
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:47,080
everything I say about autism is my dad. Um, and I know he's not gonna listen to this. Because

604
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:54,520
he's like the only person in my circle that is like very anti learning about it, because he's like,

605
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:59,560
we don't need to talk about this. Um, but I think that just goes to show that, again, it's the fear

606
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:06,280
of you being vulnerable. Yeah, I agree. And I think it's interesting you mentioned that, because I also

607
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:17,320
have a parent, my mom, that I have a strong suspicion that she is autistic, and I have voices

608
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:23,960
to her. And it's a similar kind of response. It's like she doesn't want to see it. Because she has a

609
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:30,200
very stereotypical idea. I mean, she was raised with a very stereotypical idea, I think not not

610
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:38,680
so much anymore because of raising me, but I still feel like it's like she doesn't want to

611
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:50,200
accept that label because of the stigma around it. But it's and I mean, I understand that it's like,

612
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:57,800
she probably doesn't see much difference or like much benefit in getting in self diagnosing or

613
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:03,720
getting a diagnosis or whatnot. Like she, but it's just like, there's so much about her that I've

614
00:55:03,720 --> 00:55:10,600
always noticed, like she also feels weird in social situations. She also gets like sensory,

615
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:17,160
yeah, sensitivities and aversions. And it's like there's there all these little things like she

616
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:26,920
also, I feel like, probably also because of trauma and everything, like I feel like she just goes

617
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:35,480
with social stuff more than I do. Like, I feel like I'm more unmasked at this point where I'm

618
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:41,240
just like, no, this doesn't make sense. I don't want to go. I'm not going to go. I'm more like

619
00:55:41,240 --> 00:55:45,640
confident in my boundaries. And I think she's still working on that where like she,

620
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:52,760
still feels compelled to do certain things. But like, we've always both questioned these norms

621
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:59,400
and stuff. So yeah, there's just all, there's definitely, there's definitely things that I see

622
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,680
and that's like one of the first things you talked about, like,

623
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:11,080
an autistic trait that doesn't get talked about a lot, but I think it's it drives so many of us is

624
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:17,320
like the sense of like questioning societal norms, which is one of the main things I do with this

625
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:24,600
podcast. And yeah, yeah. So I have one I know you have to go in like 10 minutes. So I have one

626
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:30,040
final question for you. This has been a really great conversation. Yeah, I feel like honestly,

627
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:38,200
we could talk like endlessly. Yeah. There's so much to talk about. Yeah, definitely. We could do,

628
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:42,360
hopefully, maybe we could do another episode in the future. Yeah, yeah. And you can definitely

629
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:48,520
come on my podcast. Awesome. I'd love to. Yeah. Yeah, I'm taking a little break now from gas,

630
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:53,000
because I think I told you I'm literally moving next month, and I need to find an apartment

631
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:59,160
that's affordable in freaking Boston out of all places. So yeah, I've been very stressed about

632
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:03,400
that, especially because I mean, housing is like a vital human need. And of course, the

633
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:03,680
unpredictability that comes with that, or the lack of

634
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:13,880
Yeah, once I'm settled, I'm definitely, I would love to have you on. Awesome. Yeah, I'd love I'd

635
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:22,120
love to come on. And so I'll just close it off with with this final question. What are some of

636
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:28,360
the most common eating disorder struggles people reach out to you seeking help for? And what are

637
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:34,600
the and is sugar one of those? And what is the most common pieces of advice you give them?

638
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:40,600
Yeah, well, I'll start off with the sugar one, because I think it's it's, it's such a big one.

639
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:46,200
Because I feel like they're kind of two, they're like three, I don't want to like type people,

640
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:52,520
but they're like three common angles that people come to me from. And number one is, you know,

641
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:57,560
from the restriction angle, and that's like anorexia, compensation, like restrictive eating

642
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:03,640
disorders, feeling really, really stuck in these patterns of basically just being afraid to live

643
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:11,000
life full out, and using that eating disorder as almost a cocoon of safety of like, of numbing of

644
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:16,280
counting calories, you know, being obsessed with exercise, obsessed with healthy eating in a way,

645
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:23,640
because in a way that's provided with us with constraints, like, if I have one option for

646
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:28,280
everything, if, if I have all these rules around food, well, then I have to don't have to deal with

647
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:33,240
that like analysis paralysis that comes with, you know, having choices around food and being

648
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:38,920
spontaneous and being flexible around it. So I think a big question is, you know, like, how,

649
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:45,480
how do I recover from the eating disorder behaviors while embracing my autism? And part of that is,

650
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:50,440
you know, being able to distinguish between eating disorder behaviors and autistic traits,

651
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:57,880
which is really challenging, because they overlap, like, all the time. So we really talk about, you

652
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:02,760
know, that why and that intention behind the behavior, because that's what it comes down to,

653
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:07,800
you know, eating disorder behaviors are always rooted in fear, you know, fear of, of those

654
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:13,000
consequences, fear of feeling a certain way, fear, fear of fullness, fear of gaining weight,

655
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:18,680
whatever. Whereas I think autistic traits are all about, you know, having that self compassion,

656
00:59:18,680 --> 00:59:23,400
you know, if looking at the menu beforehand, which during my own eating disorder treatment,

657
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:29,480
wasn't eating disorder behavior, I still do that because it helps me like to know what I can expect.

658
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:35,400
And if I know what I can expect, I'm going to feel calm, I'm not going to feel anxious. So same

659
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:40,840
behavior could be coming from a place of fear, in like a typical person of like, oh, I need to know

660
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:45,560
that the menu has like a healthy salad or something. But for an autistic person, it can be really

661
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:51,560
helpful to be like, oh, I know that these are a few options that I like, um, doesn't necessarily

662
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:56,040
mean I'm going to choose like the lowest calorie one, actually, you can use it to your advantage

663
00:59:56,040 --> 01:00:01,320
and say like, oh, I know they have, I don't know, a double cheeseburger, I always wanted that.

664
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:07,080
I haven't eaten that in 10 years. Um, I'm going to mentally prepare that I'm going to get that

665
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:15,000
at the restaurant. So in that case, again, super helpful. Um, so and then the, the second one is,

666
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:22,280
you know, parents come to me who are just so confused by why is their kid not performing the

667
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:28,520
normal human function of eating, like they're so perplexed. And often the kid has gone through

668
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:33,400
so much treatment and has been thrown out of the health care system. And these parents are at a

669
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:39,480
complete loss. It's like, how can I support my kid? How can I provide them with safety and trust?

670
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:44,600
Because those are such important words. Um, I think especially in the case of demand avoidance,

671
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:50,040
PDA, autism, um, you know, any of those like family based treatment modalities, the evidence

672
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:57,400
based thing we talked about, um, that can just have a paradoxical effects. Um, and so I kind of

673
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:02,600
teach them, you know, from my own perspective of being autistic, like, well, this is probably how

674
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:10,440
your kid feels like, what if we try this approach, um, really advising them on, you know, how to have

675
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:16,520
their kid maintain that autonomy and maintain that sense of control, and at the same time, you know,

676
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:21,800
supporting them so that they feel empowered enough to challenge and move forward and become

677
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:28,440
healthy. Um, and then the sugar one, um, if you know, a lot of autistic people who just struggle

678
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:34,520
with that analysis paralysis around food preparation, um, and, and like, oh my gosh, like,

679
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:41,560
it's so much easier to, to reach for the dopamine and then to take the time to again, be with

680
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:46,920
yourself and, and think about like, what would actually nourish my body right now? Um, and I

681
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:52,280
think that would dopamine is a huge one. Um, and stimulation is a huge one. And I think that's why

682
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:59,960
sugar can be a tricky one for autistic people. Um, is that, you know, it's, it's quick energy,

683
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:07,880
it's stimulating. Um, it's in every way, it's, it's delicious. Like, um, in a way it's, and it's an

684
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:13,960
escape from our thoughts. Like if I'm indulging in like a really delicious piece of cake, I don't

685
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:19,960
have to think about the fact that I have a whole list of emails waiting for me to be answered. I'm

686
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:26,440
like totally immersed in the enjoyment of that cake. Um, and I think that in and of itself can

687
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:32,440
become an addiction when you're burnt out and you're overwhelmed is like, the only thing I know that

688
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:38,280
consistently allows me to escape is sugar, is food. Um, which of course is like the opposite end of

689
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:44,040
the spectrum when it comes to autism and eating disorders. Um, and, and I think again, it's important

690
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:51,000
to realize that eating sugar or using food as an escape is not an inherently bad thing. I think

691
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:56,440
so much stigma about emotional eating, blah, blah, blah, blah. But if food was not supposed

692
01:02:56,440 --> 01:03:01,160
to hold any emotional value, we would not have cookbooks. We would not have Thanksgiving. We

693
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:07,240
would not have Christmas dinner. Like of course, because again, food is part of why we are able to

694
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:13,480
establish connection, not only with our body, but with other people. Um, it's, it's allowed to hold

695
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:19,320
emotional value, but it's about is food the only thing giving you pleasure in life? Well, maybe

696
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:25,720
that's worth exploring. Is food the only way that you're able to find a temporary escape? Maybe

697
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:31,960
that's worth exploring. I think a key takeaway from this, um, and something that I talk about

698
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:36,920
with all my clients when it comes to like reframing our mindset around our food behaviors, whether

699
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:43,080
it's restriction or overeating or eating sugar or whatever it is, is, you know, how can we look at

700
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:50,200
the situation from a curiosity rather than judgment? Um, cause when we stop labeling things as good or

701
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:55,720
bad, right or wrong, I should have shouldn't do this. And we say, Hmm, what purpose is this serving?

702
01:03:55,720 --> 01:04:02,760
Do I want this to keep serving that purpose? Or do I want to explore alternative ways in which I can

703
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:08,280
manage this difficulty in my life? That's when we feel empowered to actually live a life that's in

704
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:19,160
alignment with our true core values. Definitely. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Um, just like

705
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:27,480
questioning like where, where it's coming from. Um, yes, I think it's, it's really important. Yeah.

706
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:33,560
Yeah. I think that's the root of everything in life is asking yourself, why, why do I want this?

707
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:39,960
What purpose is this serving? Yeah. Well, I know you, you have another meeting coming up soon,

708
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:46,840
but I wanted to thank you again for coming on. This was a really, really great episode. I'll be,

709
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:57,000
um, posting the links to Livia's podcast and a book and cookbook. And I will, I'm also really

710
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:01,960
looking forward to coming on your podcast when you're, when you're more settled in, of course.

711
01:05:01,960 --> 01:05:08,840
Um, and, um, yeah, this once again, this was a great episode. Thanks again. Yeah. Thanks so

712
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:13,720
much for having me on. And, um, I can't wait to listen when it's out and share it with my friends

713
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:22,360
and especially my mom. I'll let you know when it's out. I'm estimating like within a few days,

714
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:29,000
it depends on like the editing and like, yeah, sure. No rush at all. All right. Thanks George.

715
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:33,000
Thanks. Bye.