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Hello welcome to another episode of unpacking neuro queerness. This is your host George Muniz Gund

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Today I have another very special guest back on the podcast

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Ashra the autistic thrifter on Instagram some of you may remember episode

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127 with Asher feel free to check that one out as well if you haven't

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and

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Yeah, so Asher and I are going to talk about

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Well, okay welcome Asher first of all

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Yeah, thank you for coming on me me too, I'm really looking forward to talking to you today especially about

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your

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Your studies in psychology and then also like a little bit about

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Your work as a TA and then also what it's been like leading these

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support groups for autistic adults

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and

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Filling a gap and that is very needed

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And so yeah, my first question

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for you today is

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What led you to

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When was it roughly and what led you to decide that you wanted to study psychology?

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And did that have anything to do with your personal experiences as an undiagnosed autistic and OCD person?

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Yeah, definitely so I

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Think I first developed an interest specifically in psychology in my

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Freshman year of college. So it was right when I was starting out. I

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Always had an interest in people and that's one of the things that actually

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Was pointed out to me a lot growing up, which was that

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Instead of like talking to people I would often just stare at them or observe them and it would really

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I think annoy people sometimes but it was because I was always trying to

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Learn about myself through other people and also just trying to understand

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Why I felt so disconnected and out of place. So I tried doing that through observing people

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So I think I always had an interest in humans in how people's minds work

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Why they make the choices that they make why?

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There seems to often be this

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feeling of like existential

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loneliness for a lot of people and

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I yeah, I've always just wanted to learn more about that

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And then also things like

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Mental health struggles have been of interest to me because I related to a lot of

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Mental health struggles that I learned about in my psychology courses and stuff

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And I think I wanted to get into psychology because of the struggles that I was having and I didn't know what they were

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And I navigate them. So I wanted to learn more about them. Um

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When I was in myself, no my freshman year of college

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I really did want to study psychology, but a

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Lot of people in my life told me that it would not be a good field to go into because they said it was very

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Saturated in terms of how many psychology students there were and then there weren't that many opportunities

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After college for psychology students, which really is not true and it was not good advice that was given to me

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but that's what I was told and so I

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Tried to

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re-navigate and

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Focus on something else. So I actually started as a chemistry major which I

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Absolutely hated and ended up

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I

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Basically was a chemistry major and then I undid that and went undeclared

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After my first chemistry class because I was like this is not for me

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I'm gonna be miserable if I continue this so I was undeclared for a large portion of my freshman year and then I

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Switched to environmental studies, which was really interesting

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But it still wasn't exactly right for me and then I actually switched to marine biology

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So I was really all over the place, but all pretty much like science-related fields. Yeah

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and then

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That was the end of my freshman year. I ended that way and then I transferred schools

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I went to Binghamton University because I started at University of Rhode Island. I didn't like it

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so then I went to Binghamton University and

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That was where in my sophomore year. I finally decided that I for sure wanted to do psychology

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Regardless of the advice that I've been given not to do it

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And it was great I loved all my psychology courses I

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Didn't do as well in like the math heavy courses

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But in the courses that were all about

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Like memory and learning about how the human brain works in the mind. Those are the ones that I really excelled in and then I went on

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Afterwards to do my masters in psychology as well. Oh nice lovely

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Yeah

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And what was that

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What was the college experience like for you?

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Like in terms of so did you live on campus and

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What was like what was interacting with the other students? What was that like?

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It was awful. It was the worst time of my life. I hated it. It was

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The closest thing I could get to my college was

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It was awful. It was the worst time of my life. I hated it. It was the closest I'd ever been to I

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Mean like trick trigger warning, I think the closest I'd ever been to like feeling very suicidal

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It was a big struggle. I was very depressed

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I was going to a lot of different therapists throughout college trying to figure out what was going on

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And I was constantly just told that it was like depression or social anxiety, which it

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really, I mean, I was very depressed, but that was not like the root of the problem.

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The depression was coming from being undiagnosed and not understanding what was happening and

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not understanding my brain and why I was struggling so much.

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But during college is when I started really, really consciously masking and try, and in

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a very social way, trying to change all of my innate behaviors and feelings to match

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what I thought I was supposed to be experiencing and what I thought I was supposed to be doing.

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So I tried to push myself really hard in those years to be social and to make friends and

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to like just have the college experience, I guess, that you always are told you're going

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to have.

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And it really didn't work for me.

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And I even tried joining sorority, which was terrible, terrible.

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I couldn't deal with constantly having to be involved in social events with so many

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other people, because in the sorority, they kind of make it mandatory that you have to

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attend certain things.

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They mandate the things that you have to wear.

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And it was just, I mean, as someone that also struggles with PDA, which is pathological

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demand avoidance, yeah, there's no what is the other name for it's like persistent drive

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for autonomy.

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I think I've been hearing.

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Okay, yeah, I like that one.

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I like it too.

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I struggle with that for sure.

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So being told that I had to dress a certain way and that I had to go to all these things

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that I didn't want to go to, it was really hard for me.

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And I ended up dropping out, of course, because I was like, I can't do this.

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So I dropped out of it and it was a hard time for me.

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I was living with my best friend and also a couple of other people.

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And it was a big struggle for me because my best friend really wanted to involve me in

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group hangouts and social situations with with her other friends.

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And I was constantly declining and saying no.

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And I remember specifically there is they were doing a friend's giving.

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So it was like Thanksgiving, but they wanted to do as a group of friends.

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And they invited me and there were so many things about that that made me anxious.

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It was like the fact that I felt like I would have to mask so heavily.

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I felt like I didn't know how to hang out in a group with multiple people.

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I didn't know how to interact with multiple people all at once.

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And sitting at a table, knowing that we would all be making eye contact with each other,

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watching each other eat and I would have to eat their food and stuff.

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And oh, my God, it stressed me so badly.

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So I remember that I told them I would come for a little while that I wouldn't be able

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to eat their food and I'd probably leave early.

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And I just know that people it always gave the impression that I didn't want to be with

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them or that I didn't like them.

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And it was never that it was just that.

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I really.

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At the time, because of the mix of having to mask so much feeling so much pressure to

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mask with feeling such a heavy depression, it put me in a place where I just could not

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interact with people, especially multiple people at once.

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And that was kind of my whole experience through college.

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It was just like a constant feeling of pressure and depression and an inability to do the

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things that I saw the people around me doing, an inability to connect and make friends that

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felt real and authentic to me.

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And I was just so anxious.

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And oh, yeah, that was when I was having what I what I thought were very intense panic attacks.

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So that was another reason why I did get diagnosed with social anxiety at the time, because what

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I had reported to the therapist was I think it was a psychiatrist.

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Actually, what I what I reported was that I felt like I lost the ability to speak when

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I got really anxious and like the like I had to turn everything off and like like my brain

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couldn't focus on anything and I had to like isolate and get to a dark, quiet place, which

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knowing now that sounds exactly like a shutdown.

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Shutdown.

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But at the time, they thought it was repeated panic attacks.

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And so they were like, well, this is happening in social situations.

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It must be social anxiety.

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So that's yeah, I was having a lot of panic attacks at the time.

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I was also drinking very heavily to try and cope with all of these feelings, which then

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made it way worse.

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So it was altogether a really bad time in my life.

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Well, thank you for sharing that.

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I'm really glad that you were, you know, able to eventually get through it and, you know,

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get support and then of course, by getting the diagnosis, you know, to be able to like

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understand yourself and accept yourself and and be in relationships with people that like

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understand you and what makes you feel judged or anything, you know, like or excluded or

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misunderstood because I can certainly relate to that feeling of not being understood and

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having so many things that I'm sensitive to, but people won't understand.

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Like the when you were talking about the friends giving dinner, like, you know, like for me

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to like, I would be thinking about like overstimulation, about like noise, about the food, about like

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certain foods that I can't eat because of texture, because that's been a big thing for

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me lately is figuring out like that all these sensitivities I've had to certain foods since

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I was younger that would always get labeled as pickiness.

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It was actually like I'm sensitive to the texture of this food and it like there are

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food because I've started reading about like other autistics talking about it too.

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Like, oh my god, like how I'll eat a certain like certain kind of foods that we eat and

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that make us like we can't eat it without gagging.

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It's like our our brain just does not accept it.

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And so all that kind of stuff.

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But then also what you were talking about, about people watching you eating, because

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that's another thing that for me, I just do not like being watched.

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It's it bothers me a lot.

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Like it makes me really anxious and uncomfortable when you know, like especially if I'm eating,

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but like even these little situations where like I'm in public or it's like I don't know

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someone and they like, or I'm just in a kind of in like a sensory cocoon or whatnot.

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And they're like looking at me or like there's just something about that also.

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And I'm always because also like always worrying about like how they're going to judge me and

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stuff.

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Another thing I wanted to ask you about is what it's been like working as a TA.

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Have you encountered any other neurodivergent students and you know how what are like some

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of the things that you've observed and like some of the good things and some of the bad

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things maybe about the working as a TA.

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You're working as a TA at Harvard, right?

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Yeah.

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So it's honestly my my biggest highlight of working as a TA is when I meet other neurodivergent

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students, which I've met a couple autistic and a couple ADHD students, which that's always

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really exciting to me because it just feels like I connect with them really, really well.

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And like we understand each other in a little bit of a deeper way sometimes than I feel

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with like neurotypical students, which I know that's a very generalized statement.

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You know, like that's not always the case, but I haven't met too many neurodivergent

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students, but the ones that I have met, I did really connect with one student in particular

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who I she has ADHD and her and I developed a really nice, I guess, a friendship throughout

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the semester, which is really fun.

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And the thing I really like about being a TA is the discussions that we have.

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So a lot of the Harvard classes work where you'll have lecture and then there will be

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like a section that is run by the TA.

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And in the section, the TA will kind of prompt like a discussion kind of similar to the groups

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that we do that I run.

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And so I'll prompt a discussion and we'll talk about all different types of things related

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to the class.

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So I've TA'd for a class called motivation for one called developmental psychopathology,

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one psychology of close relationships, and then mindfulness, which is like a health psychology

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class.

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And in all of them, I've learned so much from the students that I have in my sections.

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It's really, really, well, it's really fun being in a learning environment.

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That's always the happiest place for me, aside from college, college was the worst place

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for me.

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But being in class, I really love being a student is probably my most favorite thing

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that I ever could be, which is why I keep trying to go back to school because that's

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when I'm the happiest is when I'm in school.

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But the next best thing if I can't be in school is to be teaching.

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So I love the learning environment and I love reading their papers.

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I learn a lot from them.

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And I also really love that in in my schooling, I've often had TAs that weren't engaged in

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the subject, you could tell they were just doing it for like a credit, they didn't really

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want to do it.

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And I really like having the opportunity to not give that experience to the students to

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give them experience to give them an experience where they can see that their TA is really,

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really involved and passionate about the topic, because I do all psychology courses, so I'm

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passionate about all of them.

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So I like giving them a good experience.

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And probably the thing that makes me the happiest about TA is in the beginning of the semester,

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I tried to be very brave.

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And on the first day that I meet them, I tell them that I'm autistic.

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And so even if I don't teach them anything else, like even if they get nothing else from

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me, even if they hate the class, at least they're leaving knowing that I'm autistic

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and that can maybe change their view of autism.

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So that really means a lot to me when I get to share that with them.

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I think that's that's really amazing.

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Because it really does challenge the the stigmas and stereotypes that people end up associating

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with autism.

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And it happened to me in a way in the acting program that I took, I took this acting course

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in the Meisner technique.

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It was like a two year program.

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And so one nice thing, one of the nice things about it was that I got to get to know my

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classmates very well.

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Over time, and you know, they got to know me pretty well.

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And it may be halfway through that program or so I ended up telling everyone that I was

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autistic and I was able to talk a little bit about autism.

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And it actually it happened to come up because one of my so this two of my classmates were

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working on a scene.

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And they were basically doing it was like an exercise where they basically do these

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little scenes.

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So like they add things like adding things about their characters, like they were having

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a kid.

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And I think in I'm not I think it was like in their script or something.

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I'm not sure if it was part of their script or if it was something that they added, but

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that their kid was autistic.

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Or they.

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And so they did this scene where they like it was just I don't blame them.

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But it showed me that they had like a misconception or stigmatization of what autism was because

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they did this scene where they found out from they were finding out from the doctor before

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the child was born.

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Like the doctor was telling them that the child was going to be autistic.

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And there was like this vibe.

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I just remember like watching it and there was like this vibe of like worry and like

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concern and like what are we going to do?

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And this is kind of like as if the child had been diagnosed with like cancer or something

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really like a serious disease.

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And I'm just like and I like this.

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The first thing I thought was like, OK, but you can't tell if someone is autistic before

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birth and you can't usually tell until from what I've read until like age three or four.

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So I'm like, OK, like that's one thing.

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And then it was just this whole like.

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It was this whole like mentality like scary like this whole like kind of autism speaks

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kind of vibe.

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And I was like so then I was able to it was interesting because it was like at the end

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of that class and our teacher was like asking everyone like if they had anything to say

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about the class or about any of the scenes.

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And I remember speaking up in a very cordial way like non not like I wasn't upset necessarily

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at anyone.

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I was just like I used it as an opportunity to be like, oh, so, you know, I I wanted to

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talk about like the thing that came up with with autism because I'm actually autistic

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myself and, you know, like I feel like there was a vibe of a very like scared kind of vibe

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around it.

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And, you know, like this is not it's not all like scary.

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Like of course, you're going to need like some supports, but, you know, it's like I've

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I've started I talked about how I started viewing my autism a lot and a lot more of

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a positive light, not to say that the struggles don't exist.

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And I still acknowledge that the struggles exist and we need support for them.

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But like to also acknowledge like when I started thinking more of it from a near of it more

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from a neurodiversity perspective and like, oh, my brain works differently and and that's

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OK instead of being like, oh, my God, my brain is is is like broken or disordered or or whatnot.

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And I just talked about how that was so impactful for me.

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And it really like impacted my classmates as well, especially the people that did the

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scene and that my friend Christina, who's my friend to this day now, like a couple of

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years after the training, she, you know, offered to like she she offered to talk more about

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it.

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Like she said that if I was, you know, if I wanted to, if I felt like talking more about

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it or sharing with her and that, you know, she would love insight, unlike if I'm comfortable

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providing it, like insight on how to navigate the scene or like to not misrepresent and

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make sure that it's like not not stigmatizing or anything, but also to just like talk a

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little bit about myself and my experiences.

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And because there are some things I talked about that she could relate to, like introvertness

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and stuff.

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But anyways, it was just it felt really good because it was like when I started, I think

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it was the first time that I was like, I shared it with a group like a class, and then I felt

294
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like accepted and under and it just like the fact that they wanted to learn more, like

295
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having them be curious and want to learn more feels really good too.

296
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And it you see you see the change happening, you see them kind of changing any kind of

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stigmatized ideas they might have of autism.

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So yeah, like that I can certainly really relate to.

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I know I did go on a little bit of a tangent.

300
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I like hearing that story.

301
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It's definitely like a similar feeling.

302
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And you said they like had curiosity about it.

303
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And I think that's so awesome, because to me, it's like when I tell someone and they

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kind of just like ignore it, it's it's kind of like bad because then I'm like, I'm like,

305
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maybe they don't even believe me or maybe they just like don't care at all about learning

306
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about that.

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And I think that's this huge, like piece of me, or a part or and it's it is me.

308
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So yeah, I love when people come at it and approach it with curiosity, because then it

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shows like a true interest in wanting to learn more, even if they have been misled or like

310
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have, you know, an increased stigma around it.

311
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Wanting to learn more about it.

312
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It's really great.

313
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Yeah, definitely.

314
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Like, that's definitely one of the things I appreciate the most is when I think that,

315
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like when people are like curious and they want to learn and they want to know, instead

316
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of like trying to minimize it or doubt it or say, oh, but you're high functioning, whatever

317
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that's supposed to mean to their typical standards.

318
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And or that it's I must, it must be mild or whatever, something like that.

319
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Or and sometimes it's not always like, it's like they're just legitimately like confused

320
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because it's it's not meeting what the what they've been told or what they've been taught.

321
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But it's so nice when when I get curiosity, because sometimes they just kind of invalidate

322
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or they'll treat you differently.

323
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And they'll kind of like treat you like you they kind of start like they might start infantilizing

324
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you or not taking you seriously or, you know, just assuming that you can't like assuming

325
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that you can't do certain things just because you're autistic.

326
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And anyways, yeah, it's it's I always feel good about that.

327
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Another thing I feel really good about is when they take that information that you've

328
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told them or what they've learned about autism and they they think about it like like your

329
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:21,600
sensory stuff like they they they check in with you like if if the place is too loud

330
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or you know, do you want to see the menu before or this is the place we're going to like those

331
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:37,840
little accommodations that can go a long way as well and I think makes for a lot of us

332
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I know it makes us feel like more seen and understood.

333
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:42,120
Absolutely.

334
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:49,520
Yeah, it means so much when when people like really take in the you know, like the experiences

335
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:55,760
that you're telling them about and and then they afterwards kind of can yeah, like can

336
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just help with accommodations and stuff and it's really appreciated.

337
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:06,120
Like you said, like just little things like checking in like if you're in an in a loud

338
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environment and they ask if you're all right or like if you want to if you want to leave

339
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:17,760
and just being understanding of all of that is really really nice and it's not a typical

340
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,040
experience that a lot of us have because it is so misunderstood.

341
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,320
Yeah, for sure.

342
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:31,960
And on that, I don't know, I just wanted before I move on to the next topic, I wanted to mention

343
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:37,960
also from earlier you were talking about how you've had you've always had like a strong

344
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passion for understanding people and like connecting with them and reading, you know,

345
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kind of you know, just like figuring out what they're about and really getting to the core

346
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of like their their story and their values and everything and you were talking about

347
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:07,520
how you really like building legitimate connections with the students as a TA.

348
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,920
And yeah, I really, I really like that and I really relate to that.

349
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Like I've been discovering that a lot about myself lately is that in like I've always

350
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:24,160
had this passion from when I was younger as well of like understanding people and studying

351
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them and getting to know them and I think part of that comes from masking because we

352
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want to fit in so we part of the masking is like studying the heck out of people and like

353
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:45,800
their patterns and everything and and then we also just like kind of get to know people's

354
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personalities too. But then I also discovered that like neurotypical society, neurotypical

355
00:30:54,600 --> 00:31:07,000
socialization culture can be very superficial and it saddens me how so many people get they

356
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:14,320
don't like it if you have like the deep conversations and they just they just prefer the small talk

357
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:20,280
and that's like part of the reason why I've always struggled with small talk is because

358
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:25,840
I just there's no meat to the conversation. There's no like we're not getting anywhere

359
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,960
where it just feels like we're just going in circles and I'm not getting to know this

360
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:35,800
person like I'm not getting to know their values. I'm not getting to know like who they

361
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:42,820
are like what's their story and like because I feel like that's what really fascinates

362
00:31:42,820 --> 00:31:49,080
me whereas if someone wants to just have because I read something about like someone I think

363
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:55,520
it was an autistic person saying I don't care if you like pineapple on pizza or not I want

364
00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:03,280
to know like your who you are like what what drives you what's your story you know like

365
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:10,480
what are your values like and that I just resonated so much with that because I feel

366
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:18,400
like there's like a lot of people they just stay on like the the pineapple on pizza thing

367
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:28,320
or whatever like it's very it's very superficial it feels very superficial so I always like

368
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:36,760
it when and then you can kind of tell when the person is like invested in the conversation

369
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:43,640
and and when they're like it just feels more more authentic it feels like you can tell

370
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,720
when they're like trying and they're trying really hard to just keep this conversation

371
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,200
but you know that they doing it because they feel like they have to.

372
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:57,360
Right that's the worst that's the worst feeling when you know that the person that you're

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00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:04,320
talking to is like you know looking for any way out and like you can tell they're not

374
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:09,160
actually like interested in really talking to you they're just doing it like for for

375
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:17,200
casual politeness or whatever and it's just so so boring and it's so like I can't sit

376
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:23,280
in that inauthenticity it's so uncomfortable it is so uncomfortable yeah yeah me too for

377
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,520
sure but I am kind of curious now do you like pineapple on pizza?

378
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:32,960
I personally don't my sister really does though how about you?

379
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,560
I don't think I like it.

380
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:42,560
Yeah I don't like it I think in general pineapple it's I there's something about the taste that

381
00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,800
I think maybe the texture too like I don't know like I think dried pineapple candy or

382
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:56,520
something like that I might eat but yeah like if I were I think there's something texture

383
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:04,560
wise or or the taste even pineapple just doesn't yeah.

384
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:09,520
It's definitely very like I think maybe it's very acidic or something because it definitely

385
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:16,440
hurts my tongue it like burns my tongue um I also I think another reason why I don't

386
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:21,800
like the pineapple on a pizza is because pineapple is really juicy and like has a lot of water

387
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:28,280
so it's a little bit weird to put something watery on pizza yeah I don't really like sweet

388
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:35,080
and salty together yeah no me neither I agree that's another thing for me um it makes it

389
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:42,840
kind of soggy the water and then it's also like the sweet and salty is weird yeah I can't

390
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:49,400
like I like if I'm having like one like if I'm having pizza I think it should be salty

391
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:55,800
so I'm expecting salty and I would just rather it all just be salty instead of like a random

392
00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:06,600
sweetness it kind of confuses my mouth yeah me too yeah um yeah I've also so uh I guess

393
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:13,600
yeah I've also the other thing um I also had uh you've talked about your passion for science

394
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:22,000
and um I also have I've had a really strong passion for science since when I was younger

395
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:30,560
and it's kind of interesting for me like um one funny thing is that a lot of people um

396
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:39,200
they use the weather like for small talk like it's but for me it's a special interest um

397
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:45,360
and so I'll info dump about the weather and it's the funniest thing because people will

398
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:51,720
like come up to me and bring up something about the weather like as small talk and then

399
00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:57,520
I'll start info dumping about it and I'll get so excited and I'm info dumping and I'm

400
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,480
maybe two minutes into like info dumping and their face just goes like they're so confused

401
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:08,320
they're like yeah because they had no idea because they thought we were just gonna gonna

402
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:14,960
do small talk about it and I just start talking wrong about it yeah that's funny I that's

403
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:22,560
funny you mentioned it because um for a very long time I had a special interest in um like

404
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:29,280
nutrition and exercise and stuff so if someone made small talk about like what did you eat

405
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:34,560
today I would then do an info dump about like everything and then I would want them to do

406
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:39,280
the same but they wouldn't really reciprocate it the same way because they wouldn't tell

407
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:44,800
me like exactly what they eat or the order which is what I wanted them to do but it is

408
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:51,440
kind of funny because for a long time my main way of like talking to people was just to ask

409
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:56,320
them what what they eat today exactly what they ate today and in the order that they eat it and

410
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:03,040
so my friends and family were like why do you keep asking this and why all this information

411
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:15,440
I was like I just need you to tell me everything yeah yeah um what has it been like uh creating

412
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:24,480
uh content and when when did you start uh when was it that you started creating content and um

413
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:32,560
what was how has that whole experience been I know your Instagram has grown exponentially

414
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:39,200
over the last couple months um I started following you I think you had 40,000 followers and I

415
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:52,240
you're like 70,000 now yeah almost there yeah um so I started I think so basically last year

416
00:37:53,440 --> 00:38:01,920
right around this time was when I started my autism diagnosis assessment and so I had like

417
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:09,680
I think two sessions that were a few hours each and so it was when I started a little bit before

418
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:15,680
I started having those sessions that I was like okay I really want to start an account about

419
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:22,880
autism awareness and acceptance and support but I don't really feel comfortable doing it yet

420
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:28,080
until I have the professional diagnosis because I had a lot of imposter syndrome about it and

421
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:36,240
it just made me nervous uh to start it without the professional diagnosis even though I mean I don't

422
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:42,320
there are so many self-diagnosed people that have amazing accounts about autism awareness acceptance

423
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:47,600
and just their experiences and it's so valuable um but I personally just really wanted to have

424
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:53,840
that professional backup and even though I was sure about my self-diagnosis but also had imposter

425
00:38:53,840 --> 00:39:04,320
syndrome so I waited until right after I officially got the confirmation from the psychologist I think

426
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:13,920
it was within a week of that that I started the account and uh so it was I think it was in January

427
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:22,640
of last year so it's almost been exactly a year and I remember starting out with reels

428
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:28,800
and stuff and I just completely like didn't know how to work Instagram reels and it was hard

429
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:36,800
learning it and I look back at some of my old videos and I'm like oh my god this is so embarrassing

430
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:42,720
but I archived a lot of those so those aren't even on my Instagram anymore um the ones where

431
00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:49,440
I didn't even know how to like do the technical aspect of the editing so like you could see all

432
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:55,840
of the cuts between each of my like when I would take the video of myself you could like see each

433
00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:05,680
of the cuts and it was just like not very good editing but uh I learned it and now I feel like

434
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:11,440
I have a pretty good understanding about reels and Instagram and I try to do like trending stuff

435
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:18,480
I try to take trends and I like to say autistify them because I make them like autism-oriented

436
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:24,160
like autism-related or something somehow that's one of my favorite things to do is make it make

437
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:31,840
something that's like a general trend and make it autism content um but it's been really great

438
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:38,800
having the account I did not expect that it was going to grow this way this fast um I was very

439
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:45,760
surprised and I'm very grateful and excited that people are enjoying it um and

440
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:55,600
and it's been great because it was also a catalyst for the support group yeah yeah that's um so

441
00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:03,120
another major thing that I wanted to ask you is the support groups like how it's been um

442
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:13,360
starting your website and offering support groups for um autistic adults and I know that is a

443
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:22,480
that is um something that is definitely uh deeply needed so I think it's amazing that you're filling

444
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:32,640
this gap um because I I actually remember myself uh as of recently just as of the last couple years

445
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:39,360
like searching for support groups for autistic adults and not really finding anything neurodiversity

446
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:49,440
affirming um a lot of what I was finding was autism support groups led by neurotypical parents

447
00:41:49,440 --> 00:42:01,680
of autistic children with a very pathologizing biased perspective on autism um so I think it's

448
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:12,560
so amazing that you have started these groups and yeah I'm wondering like what uh led you to um I

449
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:20,720
remember you actually mentioned to me once that your dad uh gave you the idea and um and so yeah

450
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:28,480
like what has it been like like leading these groups uh well first I want to say that I really

451
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:33,040
appreciate your support because you are like one of my number one supporters of these groups

452
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:38,480
because you're you come to the series and stuff and I always get so excited when I see that you

453
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:44,240
sign up because I'm like yes George is coming to the group so I'm happy I really appreciate it yeah

454
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:52,080
thank you me too yeah it's been great um so the reason why I felt comfortable starting these

455
00:42:52,080 --> 00:43:00,560
groups is because one of the professors that I was a ta for at Harvard she taught motivation and she

456
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:07,360
still does but I'm not a ta for her at this time um but she had her own mental wellness startup

457
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:15,440
that was all about um leading groups uh for employees and so I was on her team for that so I

458
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:21,840
was trained in group facilitation through her uh and she's like an expert on group dynamics and

459
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:27,600
stuff so it was really amazing learning from her and so because I have that background of

460
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:33,920
group facilitation I felt comfortable and equipped to lead these groups and I of course

461
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:41,280
specifically wanted it to be for autistic adults because like you said there's really very little

462
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:49,840
support and resources for autistic adults I mean autism in general uh for all ages is really like

463
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:56,800
very slim resources and the resources available are often like ABA centered and that can be really

464
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:03,040
traumatizing for a lot of people so altogether there needs to be like a revamp of the resources

465
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:09,600
and support that people have access to um but autistic adults in particular are very limited

466
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:15,920
but autistic adults in particular have low resources available to them and that is because

467
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:21,040
a lot of our research is centered around children because a lot of people falsely

468
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:27,920
believe I think that autism is like really a childhood thing and that's not the case

469
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:34,000
and that's been the case with all of the any courses that I've had that referenced autism at

470
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:40,000
all it was always talking about autism in childhood never about adulthood never about

471
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:47,840
you know autism through development it was always just that stereotypical like little boy that is

472
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:54,320
autistic and strange and um of course that's a valid autistic presentation but it's not the only one

473
00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:02,480
and so I really wanted to make it for autistic adults and I used the background of group

474
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:09,680
facilitation that I learned from that professor in order to kind of design these groups and

475
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:17,520
I made it a series at first I was doing drop-ins where it was just one group that you could come

476
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:23,600
to but now I'm doing a series because I found that when it was the drop-in groups there wasn't really

477
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:30,080
a big chance to foster a deeper connection amongst the group because it was you know we were seeing

478
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:36,720
each other for an hour and then leaving and never seeing each other again so I thought the series

479
00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:44,240
where we meet four times every month would would be better for connection because I think autistic

480
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:53,360
adults oftentimes we want more access to support and we also I think want to often connect with

481
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:59,120
other autistic adults because there can be so much loneliness with feeling like you've grown up your

482
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:08,800
entire life being misunderstood and not having people around you that get it or relate so having

483
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:14,560
the opportunity to be in a group with other adults that have similar experiences and feelings to you

484
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:21,840
can be so validating and to really learn so much too about other experiences that maybe you don't

485
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:29,920
have so that was really my my ultimate goal with these groups was to foster connection amongst

486
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:36,880
the adult autistic community yeah fantastic no I think that is super

487
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:47,120
super awesome and super important and I've I've experienced that as well being a part of the

488
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:56,640
support groups that you've led of of like being able to at the same time as like I'm able to

489
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:05,360
relate to so many different things and experiences that everyone talks about and particularly about

490
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:14,000
you know how we interact or how other people interact with us but also learning like everyone's

491
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:23,520
own story and experiences and nuances and intersectionality and different dynamics and

492
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:35,200
everything has been really impactful and I think really helpful and just good in general yeah

493
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:43,040
thank you yeah I think it's it's definitely been really awesome like connecting with other

494
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:51,280
autistic adults and just like having an opportunity to like actually see that there's other autistic

495
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:57,360
adults that have similar experiences because for a long time I was like okay maybe I really am the

496
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:02,960
only one that feels this way like maybe there is no one else and I don't like there's just something

497
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:09,600
with me but seeing that there's other people that like do completely get it and feel similar ways

498
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:20,080
it's like really really eye-opening yeah for sure definitely um yeah well uh those are all the

499
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:29,280
questions I had to ask you today um I wanted to thank you once again for coming on and uh this

500
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:36,720
was a really great conversation um thank you everyone for listening uh I hope you enjoyed this

501
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:49,200
episode um and yeah I will see you guys soon thank you thank you all for listening thank you for having me again