Hello welcome to another episode of unpacking neuro queerness. This is your host George Muniz Gund
Today I have another very special guest back on the podcast
Ashra the autistic thrifter on Instagram some of you may remember episode
127 with Asher feel free to check that one out as well if you haven't
and
Yeah, so Asher and I are going to talk about
Well, okay welcome Asher first of all
Yeah, thank you for coming on me me too, I'm really looking forward to talking to you today especially about
your
Your studies in psychology and then also like a little bit about
Your work as a TA and then also what it's been like leading these
support groups for autistic adults
and
Filling a gap and that is very needed
And so yeah, my first question
for you today is
What led you to
When was it roughly and what led you to decide that you wanted to study psychology?
And did that have anything to do with your personal experiences as an undiagnosed autistic and OCD person?
Yeah, definitely so I
Think I first developed an interest specifically in psychology in my
Freshman year of college. So it was right when I was starting out. I
Always had an interest in people and that's one of the things that actually
Was pointed out to me a lot growing up, which was that
Instead of like talking to people I would often just stare at them or observe them and it would really
I think annoy people sometimes but it was because I was always trying to
Learn about myself through other people and also just trying to understand
Why I felt so disconnected and out of place. So I tried doing that through observing people
So I think I always had an interest in humans in how people's minds work
Why they make the choices that they make why?
There seems to often be this
feeling of like existential
loneliness for a lot of people and
I yeah, I've always just wanted to learn more about that
And then also things like
Mental health struggles have been of interest to me because I related to a lot of
Mental health struggles that I learned about in my psychology courses and stuff
And I think I wanted to get into psychology because of the struggles that I was having and I didn't know what they were
And I navigate them. So I wanted to learn more about them. Um
When I was in myself, no my freshman year of college
I really did want to study psychology, but a
Lot of people in my life told me that it would not be a good field to go into because they said it was very
Saturated in terms of how many psychology students there were and then there weren't that many opportunities
After college for psychology students, which really is not true and it was not good advice that was given to me
but that's what I was told and so I
Tried to
re-navigate and
Focus on something else. So I actually started as a chemistry major which I
Absolutely hated and ended up
I
Basically was a chemistry major and then I undid that and went undeclared
After my first chemistry class because I was like this is not for me
I'm gonna be miserable if I continue this so I was undeclared for a large portion of my freshman year and then I
Switched to environmental studies, which was really interesting
But it still wasn't exactly right for me and then I actually switched to marine biology
So I was really all over the place, but all pretty much like science-related fields. Yeah
and then
That was the end of my freshman year. I ended that way and then I transferred schools
I went to Binghamton University because I started at University of Rhode Island. I didn't like it
so then I went to Binghamton University and
That was where in my sophomore year. I finally decided that I for sure wanted to do psychology
Regardless of the advice that I've been given not to do it
And it was great I loved all my psychology courses I
Didn't do as well in like the math heavy courses
But in the courses that were all about
Like memory and learning about how the human brain works in the mind. Those are the ones that I really excelled in and then I went on
Afterwards to do my masters in psychology as well. Oh nice lovely
Yeah
And what was that
What was the college experience like for you?
Like in terms of so did you live on campus and
What was like what was interacting with the other students? What was that like?
It was awful. It was the worst time of my life. I hated it. It was
The closest thing I could get to my college was
It was awful. It was the worst time of my life. I hated it. It was the closest I'd ever been to I
Mean like trick trigger warning, I think the closest I'd ever been to like feeling very suicidal
It was a big struggle. I was very depressed
I was going to a lot of different therapists throughout college trying to figure out what was going on
And I was constantly just told that it was like depression or social anxiety, which it
really, I mean, I was very depressed, but that was not like the root of the problem.
The depression was coming from being undiagnosed and not understanding what was happening and
not understanding my brain and why I was struggling so much.
But during college is when I started really, really consciously masking and try, and in
a very social way, trying to change all of my innate behaviors and feelings to match
what I thought I was supposed to be experiencing and what I thought I was supposed to be doing.
So I tried to push myself really hard in those years to be social and to make friends and
to like just have the college experience, I guess, that you always are told you're going
to have.
And it really didn't work for me.
And I even tried joining sorority, which was terrible, terrible.
I couldn't deal with constantly having to be involved in social events with so many
other people, because in the sorority, they kind of make it mandatory that you have to
attend certain things.
They mandate the things that you have to wear.
And it was just, I mean, as someone that also struggles with PDA, which is pathological
demand avoidance, yeah, there's no what is the other name for it's like persistent drive
for autonomy.
I think I've been hearing.
Okay, yeah, I like that one.
I like it too.
I struggle with that for sure.
So being told that I had to dress a certain way and that I had to go to all these things
that I didn't want to go to, it was really hard for me.
And I ended up dropping out, of course, because I was like, I can't do this.
So I dropped out of it and it was a hard time for me.
I was living with my best friend and also a couple of other people.
And it was a big struggle for me because my best friend really wanted to involve me in
group hangouts and social situations with with her other friends.
And I was constantly declining and saying no.
And I remember specifically there is they were doing a friend's giving.
So it was like Thanksgiving, but they wanted to do as a group of friends.
And they invited me and there were so many things about that that made me anxious.
It was like the fact that I felt like I would have to mask so heavily.
I felt like I didn't know how to hang out in a group with multiple people.
I didn't know how to interact with multiple people all at once.
And sitting at a table, knowing that we would all be making eye contact with each other,
watching each other eat and I would have to eat their food and stuff.
And oh, my God, it stressed me so badly.
So I remember that I told them I would come for a little while that I wouldn't be able
to eat their food and I'd probably leave early.
And I just know that people it always gave the impression that I didn't want to be with
them or that I didn't like them.
And it was never that it was just that.
I really.
At the time, because of the mix of having to mask so much feeling so much pressure to
mask with feeling such a heavy depression, it put me in a place where I just could not
interact with people, especially multiple people at once.
And that was kind of my whole experience through college.
It was just like a constant feeling of pressure and depression and an inability to do the
things that I saw the people around me doing, an inability to connect and make friends that
felt real and authentic to me.
And I was just so anxious.
And oh, yeah, that was when I was having what I what I thought were very intense panic attacks.
So that was another reason why I did get diagnosed with social anxiety at the time, because what
I had reported to the therapist was I think it was a psychiatrist.
Actually, what I what I reported was that I felt like I lost the ability to speak when
I got really anxious and like the like I had to turn everything off and like like my brain
couldn't focus on anything and I had to like isolate and get to a dark, quiet place, which
knowing now that sounds exactly like a shutdown.
Shutdown.
But at the time, they thought it was repeated panic attacks.
And so they were like, well, this is happening in social situations.
It must be social anxiety.
So that's yeah, I was having a lot of panic attacks at the time.
I was also drinking very heavily to try and cope with all of these feelings, which then
made it way worse.
So it was altogether a really bad time in my life.
Well, thank you for sharing that.
I'm really glad that you were, you know, able to eventually get through it and, you know,
get support and then of course, by getting the diagnosis, you know, to be able to like
understand yourself and accept yourself and and be in relationships with people that like
understand you and what makes you feel judged or anything, you know, like or excluded or
misunderstood because I can certainly relate to that feeling of not being understood and
having so many things that I'm sensitive to, but people won't understand.
Like the when you were talking about the friends giving dinner, like, you know, like for me
to like, I would be thinking about like overstimulation, about like noise, about the food, about like
certain foods that I can't eat because of texture, because that's been a big thing for
me lately is figuring out like that all these sensitivities I've had to certain foods since
I was younger that would always get labeled as pickiness.
It was actually like I'm sensitive to the texture of this food and it like there are
food because I've started reading about like other autistics talking about it too.
Like, oh my god, like how I'll eat a certain like certain kind of foods that we eat and
that make us like we can't eat it without gagging.
It's like our our brain just does not accept it.
And so all that kind of stuff.
But then also what you were talking about, about people watching you eating, because
that's another thing that for me, I just do not like being watched.
It's it bothers me a lot.
Like it makes me really anxious and uncomfortable when you know, like especially if I'm eating,
but like even these little situations where like I'm in public or it's like I don't know
someone and they like, or I'm just in a kind of in like a sensory cocoon or whatnot.
And they're like looking at me or like there's just something about that also.
And I'm always because also like always worrying about like how they're going to judge me and
stuff.
Another thing I wanted to ask you about is what it's been like working as a TA.
Have you encountered any other neurodivergent students and you know how what are like some
of the things that you've observed and like some of the good things and some of the bad
things maybe about the working as a TA.
You're working as a TA at Harvard, right?
Yeah.
So it's honestly my my biggest highlight of working as a TA is when I meet other neurodivergent
students, which I've met a couple autistic and a couple ADHD students, which that's always
really exciting to me because it just feels like I connect with them really, really well.
And like we understand each other in a little bit of a deeper way sometimes than I feel
with like neurotypical students, which I know that's a very generalized statement.
You know, like that's not always the case, but I haven't met too many neurodivergent
students, but the ones that I have met, I did really connect with one student in particular
who I she has ADHD and her and I developed a really nice, I guess, a friendship throughout
the semester, which is really fun.
And the thing I really like about being a TA is the discussions that we have.
So a lot of the Harvard classes work where you'll have lecture and then there will be
like a section that is run by the TA.
And in the section, the TA will kind of prompt like a discussion kind of similar to the groups
that we do that I run.
And so I'll prompt a discussion and we'll talk about all different types of things related
to the class.
So I've TA'd for a class called motivation for one called developmental psychopathology,
one psychology of close relationships, and then mindfulness, which is like a health psychology
class.
And in all of them, I've learned so much from the students that I have in my sections.
It's really, really, well, it's really fun being in a learning environment.
That's always the happiest place for me, aside from college, college was the worst place
for me.
But being in class, I really love being a student is probably my most favorite thing
that I ever could be, which is why I keep trying to go back to school because that's
when I'm the happiest is when I'm in school.
But the next best thing if I can't be in school is to be teaching.
So I love the learning environment and I love reading their papers.
I learn a lot from them.
And I also really love that in in my schooling, I've often had TAs that weren't engaged in
the subject, you could tell they were just doing it for like a credit, they didn't really
want to do it.
And I really like having the opportunity to not give that experience to the students to
give them experience to give them an experience where they can see that their TA is really,
really involved and passionate about the topic, because I do all psychology courses, so I'm
passionate about all of them.
So I like giving them a good experience.
And probably the thing that makes me the happiest about TA is in the beginning of the semester,
I tried to be very brave.
And on the first day that I meet them, I tell them that I'm autistic.
And so even if I don't teach them anything else, like even if they get nothing else from
me, even if they hate the class, at least they're leaving knowing that I'm autistic
and that can maybe change their view of autism.
So that really means a lot to me when I get to share that with them.
I think that's that's really amazing.
Because it really does challenge the the stigmas and stereotypes that people end up associating
with autism.
And it happened to me in a way in the acting program that I took, I took this acting course
in the Meisner technique.
It was like a two year program.
And so one nice thing, one of the nice things about it was that I got to get to know my
classmates very well.
Over time, and you know, they got to know me pretty well.
And it may be halfway through that program or so I ended up telling everyone that I was
autistic and I was able to talk a little bit about autism.
And it actually it happened to come up because one of my so this two of my classmates were
working on a scene.
And they were basically doing it was like an exercise where they basically do these
little scenes.
So like they add things like adding things about their characters, like they were having
a kid.
And I think in I'm not I think it was like in their script or something.
I'm not sure if it was part of their script or if it was something that they added, but
that their kid was autistic.
Or they.
And so they did this scene where they like it was just I don't blame them.
But it showed me that they had like a misconception or stigmatization of what autism was because
they did this scene where they found out from they were finding out from the doctor before
the child was born.
Like the doctor was telling them that the child was going to be autistic.
And there was like this vibe.
I just remember like watching it and there was like this vibe of like worry and like
concern and like what are we going to do?
And this is kind of like as if the child had been diagnosed with like cancer or something
really like a serious disease.
And I'm just like and I like this.
The first thing I thought was like, OK, but you can't tell if someone is autistic before
birth and you can't usually tell until from what I've read until like age three or four.
So I'm like, OK, like that's one thing.
And then it was just this whole like.
It was this whole like mentality like scary like this whole like kind of autism speaks
kind of vibe.
And I was like so then I was able to it was interesting because it was like at the end
of that class and our teacher was like asking everyone like if they had anything to say
about the class or about any of the scenes.
And I remember speaking up in a very cordial way like non not like I wasn't upset necessarily
at anyone.
I was just like I used it as an opportunity to be like, oh, so, you know, I I wanted to
talk about like the thing that came up with with autism because I'm actually autistic
myself and, you know, like I feel like there was a vibe of a very like scared kind of vibe
around it.
And, you know, like this is not it's not all like scary.
Like of course, you're going to need like some supports, but, you know, it's like I've
I've started I talked about how I started viewing my autism a lot and a lot more of
a positive light, not to say that the struggles don't exist.
And I still acknowledge that the struggles exist and we need support for them.
But like to also acknowledge like when I started thinking more of it from a near of it more
from a neurodiversity perspective and like, oh, my brain works differently and and that's
OK instead of being like, oh, my God, my brain is is is like broken or disordered or or whatnot.
And I just talked about how that was so impactful for me.
And it really like impacted my classmates as well, especially the people that did the
scene and that my friend Christina, who's my friend to this day now, like a couple of
years after the training, she, you know, offered to like she she offered to talk more about
it.
Like she said that if I was, you know, if I wanted to, if I felt like talking more about
it or sharing with her and that, you know, she would love insight, unlike if I'm comfortable
providing it, like insight on how to navigate the scene or like to not misrepresent and
make sure that it's like not not stigmatizing or anything, but also to just like talk a
little bit about myself and my experiences.
And because there are some things I talked about that she could relate to, like introvertness
and stuff.
But anyways, it was just it felt really good because it was like when I started, I think
it was the first time that I was like, I shared it with a group like a class, and then I felt
like accepted and under and it just like the fact that they wanted to learn more, like
having them be curious and want to learn more feels really good too.
And it you see you see the change happening, you see them kind of changing any kind of
stigmatized ideas they might have of autism.
So yeah, like that I can certainly really relate to.
I know I did go on a little bit of a tangent.
I like hearing that story.
It's definitely like a similar feeling.
And you said they like had curiosity about it.
And I think that's so awesome, because to me, it's like when I tell someone and they
kind of just like ignore it, it's it's kind of like bad because then I'm like, I'm like,
maybe they don't even believe me or maybe they just like don't care at all about learning
about that.
And I think that's this huge, like piece of me, or a part or and it's it is me.
So yeah, I love when people come at it and approach it with curiosity, because then it
shows like a true interest in wanting to learn more, even if they have been misled or like
have, you know, an increased stigma around it.
Wanting to learn more about it.
It's really great.
Yeah, definitely.
Like, that's definitely one of the things I appreciate the most is when I think that,
like when people are like curious and they want to learn and they want to know, instead
of like trying to minimize it or doubt it or say, oh, but you're high functioning, whatever
that's supposed to mean to their typical standards.
And or that it's I must, it must be mild or whatever, something like that.
Or and sometimes it's not always like, it's like they're just legitimately like confused
because it's it's not meeting what the what they've been told or what they've been taught.
But it's so nice when when I get curiosity, because sometimes they just kind of invalidate
or they'll treat you differently.
And they'll kind of like treat you like you they kind of start like they might start infantilizing
you or not taking you seriously or, you know, just assuming that you can't like assuming
that you can't do certain things just because you're autistic.
And anyways, yeah, it's it's I always feel good about that.
Another thing I feel really good about is when they take that information that you've
told them or what they've learned about autism and they they think about it like like your
sensory stuff like they they they check in with you like if if the place is too loud
or you know, do you want to see the menu before or this is the place we're going to like those
little accommodations that can go a long way as well and I think makes for a lot of us
I know it makes us feel like more seen and understood.
Absolutely.
Yeah, it means so much when when people like really take in the you know, like the experiences
that you're telling them about and and then they afterwards kind of can yeah, like can
just help with accommodations and stuff and it's really appreciated.
Like you said, like just little things like checking in like if you're in an in a loud
environment and they ask if you're all right or like if you want to if you want to leave
and just being understanding of all of that is really really nice and it's not a typical
experience that a lot of us have because it is so misunderstood.
Yeah, for sure.
And on that, I don't know, I just wanted before I move on to the next topic, I wanted to mention
also from earlier you were talking about how you've had you've always had like a strong
passion for understanding people and like connecting with them and reading, you know,
kind of you know, just like figuring out what they're about and really getting to the core
of like their their story and their values and everything and you were talking about
how you really like building legitimate connections with the students as a TA.
And yeah, I really, I really like that and I really relate to that.
Like I've been discovering that a lot about myself lately is that in like I've always
had this passion from when I was younger as well of like understanding people and studying
them and getting to know them and I think part of that comes from masking because we
want to fit in so we part of the masking is like studying the heck out of people and like
their patterns and everything and and then we also just like kind of get to know people's
personalities too. But then I also discovered that like neurotypical society, neurotypical
socialization culture can be very superficial and it saddens me how so many people get they
don't like it if you have like the deep conversations and they just they just prefer the small talk
and that's like part of the reason why I've always struggled with small talk is because
I just there's no meat to the conversation. There's no like we're not getting anywhere
where it just feels like we're just going in circles and I'm not getting to know this
person like I'm not getting to know their values. I'm not getting to know like who they
are like what's their story and like because I feel like that's what really fascinates
me whereas if someone wants to just have because I read something about like someone I think
it was an autistic person saying I don't care if you like pineapple on pizza or not I want
to know like your who you are like what what drives you what's your story you know like
what are your values like and that I just resonated so much with that because I feel
like there's like a lot of people they just stay on like the the pineapple on pizza thing
or whatever like it's very it's very superficial it feels very superficial so I always like
it when and then you can kind of tell when the person is like invested in the conversation
and and when they're like it just feels more more authentic it feels like you can tell
when they're like trying and they're trying really hard to just keep this conversation
but you know that they doing it because they feel like they have to.
Right that's the worst that's the worst feeling when you know that the person that you're
talking to is like you know looking for any way out and like you can tell they're not
actually like interested in really talking to you they're just doing it like for for
casual politeness or whatever and it's just so so boring and it's so like I can't sit
in that inauthenticity it's so uncomfortable it is so uncomfortable yeah yeah me too for
sure but I am kind of curious now do you like pineapple on pizza?
I personally don't my sister really does though how about you?
I don't think I like it.
Yeah I don't like it I think in general pineapple it's I there's something about the taste that
I think maybe the texture too like I don't know like I think dried pineapple candy or
something like that I might eat but yeah like if I were I think there's something texture
wise or or the taste even pineapple just doesn't yeah.
It's definitely very like I think maybe it's very acidic or something because it definitely
hurts my tongue it like burns my tongue um I also I think another reason why I don't
like the pineapple on a pizza is because pineapple is really juicy and like has a lot of water
so it's a little bit weird to put something watery on pizza yeah I don't really like sweet
and salty together yeah no me neither I agree that's another thing for me um it makes it
kind of soggy the water and then it's also like the sweet and salty is weird yeah I can't
like I like if I'm having like one like if I'm having pizza I think it should be salty
so I'm expecting salty and I would just rather it all just be salty instead of like a random
sweetness it kind of confuses my mouth yeah me too yeah um yeah I've also so uh I guess
yeah I've also the other thing um I also had uh you've talked about your passion for science
and um I also have I've had a really strong passion for science since when I was younger
and it's kind of interesting for me like um one funny thing is that a lot of people um
they use the weather like for small talk like it's but for me it's a special interest um
and so I'll info dump about the weather and it's the funniest thing because people will
like come up to me and bring up something about the weather like as small talk and then
I'll start info dumping about it and I'll get so excited and I'm info dumping and I'm
maybe two minutes into like info dumping and their face just goes like they're so confused
they're like yeah because they had no idea because they thought we were just gonna gonna
do small talk about it and I just start talking wrong about it yeah that's funny I that's
funny you mentioned it because um for a very long time I had a special interest in um like
nutrition and exercise and stuff so if someone made small talk about like what did you eat
today I would then do an info dump about like everything and then I would want them to do
the same but they wouldn't really reciprocate it the same way because they wouldn't tell
me like exactly what they eat or the order which is what I wanted them to do but it is
kind of funny because for a long time my main way of like talking to people was just to ask
them what what they eat today exactly what they ate today and in the order that they eat it and
so my friends and family were like why do you keep asking this and why all this information
I was like I just need you to tell me everything yeah yeah um what has it been like uh creating
uh content and when when did you start uh when was it that you started creating content and um
what was how has that whole experience been I know your Instagram has grown exponentially
over the last couple months um I started following you I think you had 40,000 followers and I
you're like 70,000 now yeah almost there yeah um so I started I think so basically last year
right around this time was when I started my autism diagnosis assessment and so I had like
I think two sessions that were a few hours each and so it was when I started a little bit before
I started having those sessions that I was like okay I really want to start an account about
autism awareness and acceptance and support but I don't really feel comfortable doing it yet
until I have the professional diagnosis because I had a lot of imposter syndrome about it and
it just made me nervous uh to start it without the professional diagnosis even though I mean I don't
there are so many self-diagnosed people that have amazing accounts about autism awareness acceptance
and just their experiences and it's so valuable um but I personally just really wanted to have
that professional backup and even though I was sure about my self-diagnosis but also had imposter
syndrome so I waited until right after I officially got the confirmation from the psychologist I think
it was within a week of that that I started the account and uh so it was I think it was in January
of last year so it's almost been exactly a year and I remember starting out with reels
and stuff and I just completely like didn't know how to work Instagram reels and it was hard
learning it and I look back at some of my old videos and I'm like oh my god this is so embarrassing
but I archived a lot of those so those aren't even on my Instagram anymore um the ones where
I didn't even know how to like do the technical aspect of the editing so like you could see all
of the cuts between each of my like when I would take the video of myself you could like see each
of the cuts and it was just like not very good editing but uh I learned it and now I feel like
I have a pretty good understanding about reels and Instagram and I try to do like trending stuff
I try to take trends and I like to say autistify them because I make them like autism-oriented
like autism-related or something somehow that's one of my favorite things to do is make it make
something that's like a general trend and make it autism content um but it's been really great
having the account I did not expect that it was going to grow this way this fast um I was very
surprised and I'm very grateful and excited that people are enjoying it um and
and it's been great because it was also a catalyst for the support group yeah yeah that's um so
another major thing that I wanted to ask you is the support groups like how it's been um
starting your website and offering support groups for um autistic adults and I know that is a
that is um something that is definitely uh deeply needed so I think it's amazing that you're filling
this gap um because I I actually remember myself uh as of recently just as of the last couple years
like searching for support groups for autistic adults and not really finding anything neurodiversity
affirming um a lot of what I was finding was autism support groups led by neurotypical parents
of autistic children with a very pathologizing biased perspective on autism um so I think it's
so amazing that you have started these groups and yeah I'm wondering like what uh led you to um I
remember you actually mentioned to me once that your dad uh gave you the idea and um and so yeah
like what has it been like like leading these groups uh well first I want to say that I really
appreciate your support because you are like one of my number one supporters of these groups
because you're you come to the series and stuff and I always get so excited when I see that you
sign up because I'm like yes George is coming to the group so I'm happy I really appreciate it yeah
thank you me too yeah it's been great um so the reason why I felt comfortable starting these
groups is because one of the professors that I was a ta for at Harvard she taught motivation and she
still does but I'm not a ta for her at this time um but she had her own mental wellness startup
that was all about um leading groups uh for employees and so I was on her team for that so I
was trained in group facilitation through her uh and she's like an expert on group dynamics and
stuff so it was really amazing learning from her and so because I have that background of
group facilitation I felt comfortable and equipped to lead these groups and I of course
specifically wanted it to be for autistic adults because like you said there's really very little
support and resources for autistic adults I mean autism in general uh for all ages is really like
very slim resources and the resources available are often like ABA centered and that can be really
traumatizing for a lot of people so altogether there needs to be like a revamp of the resources
and support that people have access to um but autistic adults in particular are very limited
but autistic adults in particular have low resources available to them and that is because
a lot of our research is centered around children because a lot of people falsely
believe I think that autism is like really a childhood thing and that's not the case
and that's been the case with all of the any courses that I've had that referenced autism at
all it was always talking about autism in childhood never about adulthood never about
you know autism through development it was always just that stereotypical like little boy that is
autistic and strange and um of course that's a valid autistic presentation but it's not the only one
and so I really wanted to make it for autistic adults and I used the background of group
facilitation that I learned from that professor in order to kind of design these groups and
I made it a series at first I was doing drop-ins where it was just one group that you could come
to but now I'm doing a series because I found that when it was the drop-in groups there wasn't really
a big chance to foster a deeper connection amongst the group because it was you know we were seeing
each other for an hour and then leaving and never seeing each other again so I thought the series
where we meet four times every month would would be better for connection because I think autistic
adults oftentimes we want more access to support and we also I think want to often connect with
other autistic adults because there can be so much loneliness with feeling like you've grown up your
entire life being misunderstood and not having people around you that get it or relate so having
the opportunity to be in a group with other adults that have similar experiences and feelings to you
can be so validating and to really learn so much too about other experiences that maybe you don't
have so that was really my my ultimate goal with these groups was to foster connection amongst
the adult autistic community yeah fantastic no I think that is super
super awesome and super important and I've I've experienced that as well being a part of the
support groups that you've led of of like being able to at the same time as like I'm able to
relate to so many different things and experiences that everyone talks about and particularly about
you know how we interact or how other people interact with us but also learning like everyone's
own story and experiences and nuances and intersectionality and different dynamics and
everything has been really impactful and I think really helpful and just good in general yeah
thank you yeah I think it's it's definitely been really awesome like connecting with other
autistic adults and just like having an opportunity to like actually see that there's other autistic
adults that have similar experiences because for a long time I was like okay maybe I really am the
only one that feels this way like maybe there is no one else and I don't like there's just something
with me but seeing that there's other people that like do completely get it and feel similar ways
it's like really really eye-opening yeah for sure definitely um yeah well uh those are all the
questions I had to ask you today um I wanted to thank you once again for coming on and uh this
was a really great conversation um thank you everyone for listening uh I hope you enjoyed this
episode um and yeah I will see you guys soon thank you thank you all for listening thank you for having me again