Hello and welcome to Listen.Up.People., a podcast
of the USC Suzanne Dworak-Peck School of Social
Work. I'm Dr. Holly Priebe Sotelo, Associate
Teaching Professor of Practicum Education. According
to the December 2025 data report published by
the Los Angeles County Department of Children
and Family Services, also known as LA County
DCFS, there are 18 ,067 children receiving child
welfare services also referred to as Child Protective
Services throughout LA County. What are these
services? Who provides them? Why do people have
such mixed feelings about them? All this and
much more is what we aim to tackle in this episode.
Collectively, my guests bring 40 years of experience
working with LA County DCFS to our discussion
today. So I am very excited to have them both
here and to take a deep dive together into the
one of the most misunderstood areas of social
work practice, which also tends to generate the
most publicity. I'd like to welcome my social
work colleague and friend, Dr. Debra Waters-Roman,
Associate Teaching Professor and Clinical Psychologist.
And Richard Carranza, a USC MSW alum
and a former student of Debra's who is a supervising
children's social worker with LA County DCFS.
Thank you so much for joining me today. So I'd
like to start today by asking a more personal
question about why each of you became interested
in public child welfare or child protective services.
And moving forward, you'll hear me use that term
public child welfare and child protective services
interchangeably. So I'm going to start with Debra.
Why did you become interested in public child
welfare? And then Richard. Well, thank you, Holly.
And thank you so much for having me as a guest.
I'm honored to be here. So I actually was introduced
to the field of child protective services when
I was an MSW student at USC. And I actually completed
an internship with the Los Angeles County Department
of Children and Family Services while I was in
my MSW program. I was actually working from the
exposition park, the CFS office, which is no
longer there, but used to sit right across from
the LA Coliseum. And once I began my internship,
I immediately fell in love with the work. I had
the sense that doing child protective services
work would be a career that would be meaningful
for me and would contribute not only to my personal
growth, but also to my professional development
as a social worker. I so enjoyed and felt privileged
to have the opportunity to interact with the
families that I was working with. I was inspired
by their resiliency and their commitment to providing
the best homes possible for their children. So
I just immediately fell in love with the work
and decided during my internship that it would
become my career. Thank you, Debra. And Richard?
Hey, good morning. Thanks for having me. So anytime
I'm asked this question, I always think back.
Prior to starting the USC MSW program, I had
worked in a wraparound program, so a community
-based mental health organization. I was like
a brand new to the field. I sat in a meeting.
At the time, they were called TDNs. So they were
essentially a decision -making meeting where
different service providers sat down and, you
know, talked about a family and ultimately made
a decision as to like what were the next steps
for that family right and I noticed then that,
you know, the DCFS social worker had a lot of
say in what was going to happen next for families.
So that intrigued me. I ended up at the USC School
of Social Work and I had a professor who pushed
me into the internship program. And then once
I got there, I think the most important part
is, you know, why I choose to stay. It's because
I think that we need people who are invested
in understanding firstly that families that do
come across the Child Protective Services system,
they're in a crisis moment, right? And we need
people working at DCFS and places like DCFS who
want to support these families, understand that
it's a difficult moment for them and things can
happen in many different directions, but with
the support of a social worker and a team and
their own networks, things can start going in
the right direction. Thank you, Richard.
So Debra, I'd like to start off
with a two -part question. And for the benefit
of our listeners who may not be as familiar with
public child welfare or child protective services,
could you please provide us an overview? And
then also, people confuse the different types
of social workers. You know, what are the different
types, say someone at CPS versus someone in a
school and then in a community based agency?
Thank you, Holly. Of course. So I think for the
first to answer the first part of your question,
I think child protective services, CPS work has
shifted dramatically since I started 40 years
ago. Now. I do believe the one consistent is
the notion of child safety, that child protective
services agencies are really mandated given the
mission of ensuring child safety. And that mission
has remained consistent over the years. I think
what has changed, though, is how social workers
attempt to do that. So when I started, public
child welfare was really focused on parents just
completing a list of activities and you know,
if they did, that was wonderful. And if they
didn't, then maybe their children were not going
to come home. And it was more of a cut and dried,
I think, type of work. And I think it shifted
to the point now where current DCFS, public child
welfare workers, child protective workers, really
look more at engaging with the family and look
at it more of a team process. So rather than
us going in and telling families what's wrong
with them, and this is what you need to fix,
it's a matter of respecting their stories. They're
the experts on their lives, their journeys, engaging
with families to recognize what are their needs,
what are their challenges, and how as a social
worker can I assist with those. while ensuring
child safety because that is still always there,
but also trying to maintain children in their
own homes, in their own communities, or getting
them back to those locations as soon as possible.
So again, I see a real shift into more of a collaborative
approach now where I believe clients are more
respected. I think to answer the second part
of your question, so child protective services
agencies have the responsibility of investigating
reports of potential child abuse or neglect.
So where a school social worker may call in a
report because they have a concern about a student
perhaps, it's going to be a DCFS public child
welfare worker who goes out and investigates
that report and they go out and meet with the
family and try to make an assessment in terms
of what's going on. Again, there are a lot of
social workers who will report if they have concerns
about the welfare of a child. And DCFS is the
agency, Public Child Welfare, is the agency that's
responsible for investigating those reports and
determining how best to move forward to ensure
the safety of the child and also support the
family. Excellent. Thank you. And Richard, would
you care to add? Yeah, I think when Deborah was
speaking, especially partially working with families,
we were just talking with a group of colleagues
about dignity and families wanting to feel like
they have dignity in this process. And I think
that's one of the things that's most important.
important to highlight is that there's an emphasis
on that and, you know, hearing families and making
sure that they're at the center of, you know,
making sure that we have a safer plan, you know,
altogether. And I've actually, you know, enjoyed
learning and putting a focus on that. And I feel
like if we are able to connect those those things
and have a family centered approach, like there's
just better outcomes. Having worked at DCFS myself,
maybe. 30 years ago, I know, definitely know
that there's been a shift and there's still some
confusion about different types of social work.
So thank you so much for clarifying this for
our audience. So I'd like to ask Richard if you
can, you know, as a supervisor right now at DCFS,
what are the latest trends that you were noticing
that are impacting families to become involved
in CPS? Yeah, in our service area, so what we
work essentially ends up being South Central
Los Angeles, a lot of the things that come. across
our caseloads are either related to us like structural
issues you know so sometimes neglect leading
from other complicating factors such as like
poverty substance use and then one of the big
ones too is like intimate partner violence which
also can you know have a lot of other stressors
tied to it you know on both sides of the parent
so whether um that's like some underlying mental
health needs underlying family stressors like
economic stressors. I also think that we've sometimes,
because our focus is safety and immediate safety,
there is some dangerous situations where collaborative
approach, for example, with law enforcement would
be best. However, a lot of our social workers
and law enforcement officers do at times face
situations where, although it'd be best to collaborate,
just the timelines don't work out, and the social
workers are left with a situation where they
do need to work with the family to make a safe
plan, which does entail further involvement with
the dependency court system. Thank you. And you
know, you mentioned poverty as one kind of factor.
Can you clarify just a little bit more? Although
families may be experiencing poverty, it doesn't
technically always mean that that would require
CPS interventions. Definitely. I think I meant
more so if it gets to, you know, an investigation
phase and those are things that are handled with
connecting to community -based organizations.
We've developed great relationships with local
agencies who respond even within a day and we
also have thankfully a lot of faith -based organizations,
a lot of community resources. There's never enough,
but that's like always our first option, right?
However, you know, we do have to acknowledge
that we still get those families at our desk,
right, or it still hits one of our workers caseloads.
The way we're reacting to it and the plans that
we make are definitely more so like preventative
and also like propping the family up with supports
rather than, you know, like maybe in the past
it could have been like a punitive approach or
something like that. Thank you for that clarity.
Appreciate that. And so for the both of you,
this is a question I'm going to ask Deborah first
is, I know that social work in public child welfare
is definitely a high stress work. And what in
your opinion, Deborah, what needs to happen in
order to address burnout for social workers who
may be experiencing you know, some high stress
and or the high turnover among public child welfare
workers. So I'd love to hear more about, you
know, what needs to happen to address that, Debra,
and then maybe Richard, you could also chime
in on that one. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you,
Holly. This is another area where I think change
has been occurring. So again, I remember not
too long ago, there were really no structure
in place to address this within public child
welfare. And so burnout and turnover rates were
always very high. And it's understandable because
it's very emotionally, physically taxing work.
CPS workers are constantly exposed to vicarious
trauma, secondary trauma, hearing and seeing
about the effects of child abuse. I think that
workers themselves, if you're in CPS work, you
really need to have a good self -care plan in
place in terms of how are you going to take care
of yourself when you are exposed to all of these
difficult dynamics. And as Richard mentioned,
you're exposed to people in crisis. Sometimes
they're not happy to see you. and they'll share
those feelings with you. And so again, how do
you practice self -care so that doesn't lead
you to becoming indifferent or burning out? I
always considered it a responsibility to my clients
to not let that happen to me because if a social
worker, CPS worker becomes burnt out or maybe
negative, then it's ultimately going to hurt
the clients more than it is anybody else. I also
really quickly think that agencies too have a
responsibility to try to foster a work environment
that pays attention to worker self -care. So
I know, for example, at Los Angeles County DCFS,
they started a mentor program. So new workers
are matched with a mentor. Again, that's to help
them transition. to the work, get support, and
I think ideas like that are excellent. So I think
a combination of, you know, workers prioritizing
their self -care and then an agency, public child
welfare agencies, paying attention to that and
contributing to worker self -care are two important
things. Excellent. Thank you so much, Debra..
Richard, do you have any additional thoughts
on that? Just was going to share. I feel like
some pragmatic things have happened. Our caseloads
are lower than when you all did the work. So
it's a little bit more manageable now. There's
still a lot of work to do. And when social workers
do feel that way and the social workers that
I work with, I just remind them to definitely
make sure that they practice self -preservation,
self -care, that they have a system in place,
right? That they are able to identify what makes
them their best selves, so to say. And again,
I love that Deborah shares that ultimately we
want to be that for our loved ones and also for
the people that we work with, right? They want,
you know, we need workers who are out there feeling
well about the work that they're doing. And then
just on a personal level, I think that DCFS is
a huge organization. So there's a multitude of
opportunity out there to do different things.
And in my personal experience, I think it's helped
me to look out for other opportunities and just
play different roles, work with different people.
And it kind of makes you feel a little fresh
and vibrant, and it keeps you engaged. I love
that. Thank you, Richard. Thank you, Debra.
I know this topic, it comes up a lot in class
where students sometimes express having a difficult
time kind of getting images out of their head.
You know, after experience, you know, going out
on a home visit and seeing children and families
suffer, you know, it's very hard for the students.
And so they they need to be mindful that we know
that they're human, too. And so one, I'm glad
to hear. that DCFS is taking those extra steps
to make sure that we take care of our social
workers as well, because we need them to be healthy.
I'd like to just kind of talk a little bit about
some of the myths that social workers steal children
from families. I mean, usually when I go out
and I tell people ask, what do you do for a living?
Oh, I'm a social worker. Oh, you steal children.
No, you know, Richard, can you share with us
a little bit about dispelling the myths that
social workers steal children from families to
help change the conversation around what DCFS
actually accomplishes? Yeah, I definitely try.
I do definitely. take a transparent approach
to the work we do, right? But I do want to say
when removals happen, and they do, you know,
so sometimes, you know, I always want to be sensitive
to families, and if they have that perspective,
it may be like a very personal experience that
they had, and I always want to respect that,
right? But I do want to say that I've been pushed
in my time to DCFS that, you know, to... emphasize
that removal is the last resort. Social workers,
like the brunt of the work is trying to avoid
removal, right? Like those, in my experience,
like the hardest cases, the most work that we
do is when we're in a difficult situation where
it may be unsafe or we just need to be a little
safer and we're just trying to bring collaborators
together. For example, other relatives, community
partners. community -based mental health organizations
to help keep children in the care of their parents
right and that does take a lot of work and that's
why social workers are busy because you know
the the goal is for every investigation that
we have that we're doing that because we're trying
to not have to you know, make the decision to
introduce the family into dependency court, where
ultimately, like, those are where the decisions
are made, right? It's a legal decision in court.
I think there's also still some work to do, right?
Because I always do talk to my colleagues about,
although my experience has been that our goal,
you know, has, you know, removal of the last
resort, keeping families together, doing the
work and, you know, working hard towards it.
There's still some community members that do
see the other side of DCFS and that just means
that we just got to keep working hard to try
to continue to dispel that myth. Thank you so
much Richard. Deborah, obviously you know at
USC we offer incoming graduate students a workforce
stipend for those interested in pursuing a career
in public child welfare, specifically at LA County
DCFS. Can you share with our listeners how is
the DCFS stipend program preparing our students
for career and public child welfare? Yeah absolutely
and so proud that we have Richard here who is
a graduate of that program and is now paying
it forward. I believe that the internship program
that USC has with LA County DCFS is so valuable
in terms of the training that it provides to
incoming public child welfare workers. Again
as we were just talking about this can be very
difficult work and when students are completing
their internship at DCFS they receive a lot of
support not only from their practicum instructor
and their colleagues at DCFS but but they also
receive a great deal of support from their professors
and others at USC. So they're having the opportunity
to learn what public child welfare work is. Many
students come in with a somewhat vague idea,
and some come in and it's like, you know what?
This isn't quite for me. And that's fine. And
others come in and it is exactly what they want
to be doing. I think what is so nice about the
internship is, again, giving students the opportunity
to have exposure to what the work is. How does
it make them feel? They get the opportunity sometimes
to address difficult ethical questions, you know,
why was a child removed, not removed, all while
they're in that learning mode. And so I think
for students, while they're interning, learning
about DCFS, they're enhancing their professional
social work skills, and I think they also grow
a lot. personally. I think we see students grow
personally, you know, tremendously over the course
of the academic year while they're interning
at DCFS. And then some of the students even find
a program. They're like, oh, I think emergency
response, you know, the first responder program
is more suited for me or something else. But
I think it just gives them a year. of growth
and learning. And even if they don't make public
child welfare their lifelong career, they still
have that knowledge so that whatever area of
social work they move into, they'll carry that
knowledge with them. Excellent. Thank you, Debra.
Richard, would you care to share? I saw you nodding.
Yeah. A lot of the things that Debra said,
and just from the student perspective, people
who are the program right now, it's an excellent
opportunity to get a peek as to how the work
is to try things out. I do, you know, train new
social workers and have had worked with some
of the USC students. You know, I'm always excited
because they're at the beginning of their career.
They're very willing to share their experience.
I know that they go back to school and have colleagues
where they learn together, where, you know, one
person experienced something, felt some certain
type of way about what they saw in the field.
And there's a lot of group learning happening.
And I feel like in my personal experience, like
it connected the dots, right? To make sure that
I understand that this is a system, there's multiple
entities involved. And it gave me the confidence
and confidence when I started my career at DCFS.
that it's still a little scary, right? You know,
you're going out there a little unknown, but
at least I had a little bit of background and
some experience. And I always tell the students
that we're working with, make sure that you interview
people, make sure that you are transparent with
your field practical instructor, because it's
a great learning opportunity, which not a lot
of people get. You know, I get a lot of new social
workers who... come off doing a different job,
sometimes related. And it's just a big change
for them. And I'm really proud of them being
able to actually embrace the job and learn. However,
it's a bigger learning curve for someone that
doesn't do a program like that. Thank you, Richard.
I know we bring you back every year, right, for
our summer orientation to share, right? So it's
so exciting. Yeah, it's always a great experience.
Yes, the students love you. So I'd like to shift
our conversation a little bit towards child fatalities.
We know that child fatalities are rare, but over
the past few decades, there have been more attention
on child abuse, especially a few docuseries
that were made about child child abuse and what
appears to be the failure of the system to protect
children. So Richard, I'd like to start with
you if you could share what has changed in the
field of public child welfare or child protective
services since then and what assurances are in
place for families. So, you know, I want to start
by saying that, you know, When that has happened,
it's a tragedy, right? It impacts, obviously,
the family and the community, and it has, you
know, we see that. One of the things that I think
about when this topic comes up is my first manager
in one of our early meetings, she acknowledges
that, you know, although rare. you know, she
had seen it in her experience. And I really,
you know, it was a very difficult conversation
to have with her. But I really appreciated having
that conversation early on in my career because
it gave me, like it was just a reminder of the
weight of the work. I guess it's something that
doesn't leave you when someone shares that, you
know, like something that heavy with you. The
other side of it is, you know, I've been at DCFS
for 10 years and I've seen a lot of the changes
that have happened as a result of some of those
things. So, you know, an example of how DCFS
has reacted. having a DCFS Academy, you know,
more extensive training, preparing social workers
to do the job, to make better assessments, regular.
practice examples and and data from our risk
management team reviewing some of these cases
some of these um rare but severe cases and to
see like hey what are the trends like what can
we avoid next time right what can social workers
here are actual tools here are questions to ask
this is who to ask and some red flags we can
identify so then when you are out there investigating
you can you know point those things out the other
thing is like the supervision piece right you
know a social worker should have the support
of their supervisor and the supervisor of the
manager and we should be We were taught to bring
in people who also are responsible for the safety
of the children, for example, relatives, right?
Because child safety ultimately is not just the
responsibility of the social worker that goes
out and meets the family, right? It's a community
responsibility. So I do appreciate that I've
had that experience. You know, lessons learned,
you know, some really hard lessons learned. Initiatives
to teach social workers to just gather data better.
For example, a lot of social workers are learning
motivational interviewing. an exhaustive process
right now for them. But ultimately, the goal
is to just team with families better and just
make safer plans in order to have families going
in the right direction and keeping them together.
Excellent. Thank you, Richard. And which is transitioning
into community, because you said it's not just
about the social worker. It really is like a
collaborative response, which I'd love to hear
from you, Deborah, about how social workers are
collaborating with other departments and agencies
to protect children. Yeah, absolutely. So there
is a lot more collaboration going on now and
Richard touched with touched base on that. And
I think the collaboration shows the need for
social workers to bring in as many partners as
possible to support families and also giving
families the agency to identify who their supports
are. Again, I think collaboration reflects a
shift in DCFS from moving away from, we're going
to tell you what's best for you. We're going
to tell you how to parent. We're going to tell
you how to manage your life. It's no. We want
to hear from you what's working, what's not working.
How can we collaborate in terms of helping you
reach your goals for your family. And I also
really appreciated what Richard said about this
idea of shared responsibility. So I think collaboration
really requires accountability on the part of
everyone. Again, we all want to be working hard.
to make sure that children are safe and families
are able to provide a safe, nurturing home environment.
So I think we all have a responsibility to do
that. And I think the ways we do that, which
now is including the family, hearing their input,
hearing their thoughts, including community -based
partners, is so crucial. And I think results
in families and agencies having more successful
collaborations. I think when families feel respected,
when they feel like they have a seat at the table
and they feel like their voices are being heard,
children as well, it makes collaboration all
the more successful. Thank you, Deborah. Gosh,
thank you. I really appreciate you framing that
for our listeners that we want to work with families.
They are the experts with their children. So
as we begin to wrap up, are there any final thoughts
that you'd like our listeners to know about?
Deborah, I'd like to start with you and then
Richard, any final thoughts? I would just like
to share that I think the field of child protective
services, public child welfare, for me, it has
been an absolutely amazing career. I have learned
more from the families and children I have worked
with than from anyone else, including my wonderful
professors at USC. But the families and children
have taught me more than anyone else and have
so richly contributed to my personal and professional
development. And I'm sure all areas of social
work do that. But again, I think there's just
with public child welfare, social work, there
is such an opportunity to find meaning in your
work and that you are making a difference. And
the difference that you're making is protecting
children and trying to strengthen and keep families
together. Excellent. Thank you, Debra. Richard,
any final thoughts? I feel like Debra always
wraps everything up really well. I just want
to say, you know, I agree with everything she's
saying and, you know, we're doing the work. It's
tough work. I'm really proud of the work that
we're doing on a daily basis. But I often say,
like, I think... that the thing that makes me
just most excited and wanting to still you know
stay stay and contribute to this organization
is that we want to get better right it's always
about getting better because ultimately that
means that families are you know staying together
families are safer we're giving family dignity
to choose you know which direction like their
family what's best for their family and um you
know that's been my experience and that's what
i you know want to make sure that our our listeners
here and also here that we're just, we're continuing
to work hard towards that. Excellent. Thank you
so much, Debra and Richard for joining us for
a great discussion on this very important topic.
If you would like to learn more about public
child welfare or our DCFS stipend program, please
visit our website at dworakpeck.usc.edu. And
if you would like to network with our guests
regarding their work or want to support our transformative
research and program. please email us at
listenuppeople@usc.edu. We would love to hear from you and
thanks for listening.