Hello and welcome to Listen.Up.People., a podcast
of the USC Suzanne Dworak-Peck School of Social
Work. I'm Dr. Holly Priebe Sotelo, Associate
Teaching Professor of Practicum Education. The
use of the arts in social work practice can be
an important tool for improving mental health.
It often acts as a bridge to build trust between
client and therapist and allows practitioners
to work with clients on an emotional rather than
just a factual level. If you are unfamiliar with
how the arts incorporate into social work, my
guests today have an extensive experience in
the use of expressive practices to improve health
and wellness. I'm excited for them to share their
knowledge and work in this area and how they
are advancing the arts and social work. I'd like
to welcome my social work colleagues, Dr. Michal
Sela-Amit, Associate Teaching Professor, and
Danielle Brown, Associate Teaching Professor
of Practicum Education. Thank you so much for
joining me today. Thank you for having us. Thank you Holly.
So I'd like to start with a personal
question for our listeners, just to give us an
understanding about how you became interested
in arts and the expressive practice within social
work. Why don't we start with Michal and then
Danielle, please? Sure. Sure. Thank you so much.
So honestly, I don't think I could have evaded
interest in the arts because I grew up, I was
very privileged to grow up in a house that really
valued arts. And my mom was singing all the time.
My dad was a great storyteller and a dancer,
even better than that. And we were all expected
to play an instrument, be part of a band or an
orchestra. And so we're like, There's no other
ways. This is part of life and it's an enjoyable
part of life. And so when I came to social work,
it was just like, you know, very easy for me
to notice that this is sometimes very much absent
in what we're doing. And I worked with residential
kids that were abused and neglect and they had
an option. Those who wanted could use the workshop
that they had with the arts and those who didn't
had to go to whatever other kind of activities
such as soccer or something like that. And I
saw a huge change in those that actually came
to the arts and they had all sorts of like clay
and photography and all sorts of things like
that. They were more composed. They were more
connected somehow and their behavioral problems
really decreased very quickly. So that was like
the way it went. And Danielle? Sure. So I started
out as a dancer and that was my passion. and
my professional pursuit in life. You know, a
dancer's life is short. So maybe around 35, 40,
I'd become a therapist. So I was always very
interested in psychology also. And at some point
in college, a professor mentioned something about
dance therapy. I went to the library, I got some
books, some articles. I said, oh my god, there's
already exists a field that, that marries these
two passions of mine. So I pursued a master's
degree in dance movement therapy, and then I
wanted more clinical training. And I had had
a therapist who was a licensed clinical social
worker who was just fabulous and talked to me
about the field. And I thought, okay, this is
really, this is really for me. So Then I did
my master's in social work and was able to use
both movement and dance therapy and my clinical
social work skills starting in my first internship.
Excellent. I love learning more about you both.
So, Michal, for our listeners who may be hearing
about this concept for the first time, can you
give us an overview of the arts and social work
and the impact it can have on one on one's well
-being? Of course, I'd love to. You know what?
All we need to do is go back to Hull House.
And I was like amazed by what I found when I
did some reading about Hull House and how Jane
Addams and Ellen Gate Starr were really emphasizing
in any possible way the arts in whatever work
that they were doing there. They had culture
dancing, they had workshops, they had theater,
they had like gallery, they had readings and
writing, and I was like asking myself Why? How
is all this related? And I was like, is that
really the same thing that I'm seeing with those
kiddos that are in residential is happening also
on a much bigger scale that you can actually
build communities and build someone's self -esteem
using the arts? And I think the answer is definitely
so. If you look at pictures and some movies that
we have from that era, we can see that very clearly
about the faces of the people that were there.
And so it is not coincidental that later on our
history as social workers was heavily involved
with arts, heavily like, you know, psychodrama,
like working with community, building communities,
advocacy, in group work, oh my God, in group
work, strong, strong. emphasis on the use of
the arts because the use of the arts opens up
so many challenges for well -being. It starts
with, you know, issues related to emotional processing
and ability to express emotions in different
ways, more, you know, it helps with health and
mental health. We know, you know, sometimes down
the line, I think it was toward the 70s, the
profession really changed and took a turn into
focusing way more on evidence -based practice
and the arts were like oh my god you know what
are we doing with the arts is it evidence -based
we didn't have ways to to say yes There weren't
the research, the research was not there. But
nowadays, like in the last 20 years, there's
so many excellent research projects that shows
the benefits of the arts. And it goes from the
mental and the emotional health to the cognitive
health of people and how it really helps people
kind of like connect different parts of their
brains using the art. It is about social and
community. building and how you... and that's
what I really really love about it. It's about
your sense of self. Who are you? You know, what's
your self -esteem? It boosts each and every part
of it and it's good for babies and it's great
for elderlies and anyone in between. I love that.
No group is left untouched, right? I mean, it's
so beautiful. And I very vaguely, not vaguely,
but I remember working with the arts with young
people who were incarcerated and how beneficial
that was for them. So which leads me to my next
question for Danielle is I know that you have
a focus on trauma -informed care, and you actually
are a board -certified dance and movement therapist.
Can you tell us a little bit about how you use
dance and movement to help individuals heal from
trauma? Yeah, I think, you know, going off of
some things that Michal said, like when we use
art, dance, psychodrama, painting, whatever it
is. Writing, you know, it allow it gives us space.
I feel like for creative the creative pieces
of ourselves for nonverbal expression Right.
So it gives us different ways to communicate
nonverbally and if you think about like thinking
about babies The first way we communicate is
nonverbally and we communicate all of our needs
without language So I feel like the art the arts
Brings us back to our most fundamental cells,
our most primal way of communicating. So there's
something very, very powerful in that. And so
in thinking about trauma treatment in particular,
and thinking about survivors, we need to realize
that survivors often don't have the language
to talk about what happened, either because words
just cannot and do not capture the fear, the
horror, the intensity, the shame, whatever it
might be that the words just don't capture the
depth of the feeling. So that's one piece. The
other piece, too, is that because of the nature
of trauma and what happens to the brain during
a traumatic event, survivors don't have a narrative,
oftentimes don't have a narrative, because our
language centers go offline. during traumatic
events. So language literally isn't available.
So when we can use art, when we can use movement
dance as a nonverbal endeavor, we can really
give a medium for expression and communication.
So it can be a really vital piece in healing.
And then the other piece, people with traumatic
experiences often are living with an acute stress
response. Right, so this often manifests as in
different physiological symptoms like hyper arousal
or hypo arousal of the nervous system that fight
flight or freeze response can be chronic in a
way. So we can work with we work with movement
we can work directly with the breath and directly
with the body to help manage those physiological
symptoms. I would love to add just a little bit
to it. And this is so great that you brought
it up, you know, the fact that for survivors
of trauma, it is so critical to utilize the arts
because of them. multiple benefits, one of which
Dr. Dan Siegel was really mentioning a lot, which
is the connectivity of different regions of the
brain. And the research shows that utilizing
arts and that could be, and when I say utilizing
art, it's like, you don't have to be an artist
for it. You just need to use the arts. And it's
not so important. The aesthetics of the product
is way less important than actually the processing
that goes on. And basically, he was saying that
a healthy brain is a brain that has great connectivity
of all parts of the brain. And that is exactly
what arts are doing. When you're using the arts,
every part of the brain is connected to a different
part of the brain. Excellent. And I also want
to add that in one of our practicum courses we
use an expressive arts assignment and it is sincerely
the highlight of the semester. Students by far
always comment that that is their favorite assignment
and practicum in their early foundational years.
So I see it firsthand with our students. And
Michal, I know that you've worked with a group
called the Unusual Suspects Theater Company.
Can you tell us how you became involved with
this group and what has been your experience
there? Sure, so it really starts with the fact
that in in Israel where I'm coming from. There's
tons of use of the arts in mental health. I learned
about it there and I took some of our students
in the global immersions to do the same. In one
of them, I met Sally Fuhrman who was at the time
the director of The Unusual Suspect and she said,
well, why do you go all the way there when we
have it in LA? I said, what do you have in LA?
She was sharing about the unusual suspects and
she was, she was inviting me to be part of the
board, but also a consultant. And I just loved
it. So the unusual suspect is a nonprofit focusing
on those children that do not have access to
the arts and that a lot of them are at risk of
failing behind in schools. A lot of them have
multiple traumas and some of them were in juvenile.
justice facilities and corrections. And the way
that they work is that they invite artists who
are teachers, who become mentors for those kids
and help them out to write their own script and
to put together an amazing, you know, theater
show. But they have no understanding of why the
arts and how the arts are really impacting these
kids and what's happening to the kids' brains
and connect with others during it they see it
they don't understand the behind of it and so
they don't even know like you know how does it
work but they know the magic works and so I was
working with them a lot to explain you know how
to work and what to do and when not to push you
know, which is so important and how to allow
and that was just fascinating and I was helping
them as a board member too to develop the company.
So now this company is like dealing with almost
30 ,000 students a year that they reach out and
it's all philanthropy and it's all money that
you know and all kids that are really really
in needs of this venue. So that was my experience
with the... And I'm so happy to say that they
grew, but also many other companies about drumming,
storytelling, dancing, came on board to enrich
the lives of our kiddos around LA. Amazing. And
I love that. And you help remind me of another
group that we work with also at the school is
the kids in the spotlight, which are former foster
youth who are learning how to be filmmakers and
storytellers through the work of filmmaking.
And so that's something that we're also pretty
proud of. By the way, they're doing the same
thing. They're like getting those kids into college.
to learn about theater and then taking them back
as theater teachers for other kids. So Danielle,
just kind of continuing in with the conversation,
what does the future of social work practice
look like with continued development of arts
and social work? And how can we expand the use
of expressive practices? I'm hopeful. So with
different organizations, social workers, our
MSW students, There is great interest in the
arts and art -based interventions at all levels
of social work. So I think we need to be explicit
in teaching it and making it part of our curriculum.
As you mentioned before, that expressive art
therapy assignment is my favorite. It always
seems to be the student's favorite. It's really
so novel for a lot of them, but so meaningful.
And it really teaches. as Michal was talking
about before, the process and not the product.
And I think art and dance in particular seems
really out of reach and very foreign and scary
to non -artists. But again, going back to this
idea about the process and not the product. And
I think... part of why it resonates so much with
people, and I think social workers in particular
maybe, because it really taps into a really fundamental
aspect of being human, and it promotes one of
social work's core values, which is the centrality
and importance of human relationships. I think,
you know, when we come back to thinking about
dance movement in particular, because that's
my focus, when we can work with the body and
the creative use of movement, we can work with,
as again, I was saying these different parts
of our brain light up and connect. So we really
can harness meaning making, expression, acceptance
of the self, and ultimately authenticity in relating
to others. So if we can really be in our bodies
embodied as a word we like to use. So really
being of and in our bodies in a truly authentic
way, we're better able to be with others in an
authentic way as well. Thank you so much. I want
to add one more thing and this is that it is
strength perspective. It is absolutely strength.
It is 100 % says, what are you good at? Let's
discover it. Let's build on it. And this is so
much social work. That's right. That's right.
Yeah. Yes. And with all, you know, and I, I always
say with dance too, because I know that can be
very scary for people to move their bodies, you
know, intentionally. Um, but I always say, if
you can breathe, you can move. And if you can
move, you can, breath is movement. When we breathe,
our, our rib cage is expand and contract. That's
movement. Right. So we can build on that. So
it's always there. It's always accessible to
us. And it is that most fundamental strength
base. We have it. It's all within us. We just
need the medium to let it out. Excellent. Love
that. And Michal, you actually published a book
last year called Social Work and the Arts, Expanding
Horizons. Can you tell us about it and why it
might be helpful for anyone interested in this
topic? Yeah, this book is basically covering
the different areas by which social work can
really expand horizons. How social workers working
with clients on all different types of clients
can also learn and utilize the arts from reading
about others who are doing it, understanding
key processes, what to do and why. not to do.
For example, we're not interpreting clients'
work and why is that important? It also showcases
All of the people who are in the book and writing
parts of the book are social workers who are
engaged with the arts themselves in different
components. So it really broadened up the perspective
of what can be done with social work and the
arts. Because we, you know, it's an incredible
and necessary tool for social workers to have.
And I think it will bring to readers courage
to try to use to open up themselves because if
you do not open up yourself you cannot help others
as we know that very well in social work so this
is the book it talks about the research in social
work it talks about you know clients in social
work about communities in social work and in
research in social work and with the arts so
everything with the arts Excellent. Love that.
And Danielle, I'd like to give you a chance to
talk about our excellent Trauma Recovery Center
at USC at our school and your role within it
as it relates to bringing the arts and creative
expression into the MSW student intern program.
Can you share a little bit about that? Absolutely.
Thank you for that. Yes. So I am incredibly proud
of our Trauma Recovery Center at USC. For those
who don't know, the Trauma Recovery Center is
a trauma -informed care model that provides free
therapy and case management services to survivors
of crime. And because we are telehealth -based,
we can work with clients throughout California
virtually, and we do see clients in person at
our office on campus in the School of Social
Work. And so we do have, we have four associate
social workers who all graduated from USC and
right now three interns, MSW interns. So I am
always trying to find ways to bring in ideas
about art, creativity, and movement into my supervision
practices and the training that we do. The first
thing I teach about and continue to underscore
is that when we're working with trauma and survivors
of trauma, the most important piece, the primary
goal is to create a sense of safety for the client
and within the client. One idea of safety and
trauma recover begins in the body, extends to
the relationship one has with themselves, and
eventually to the relationships they have with
others. So I think this is a safety trust relationship
continuum. And this really is fundamental to
that which is compromised during trauma, which
is one's humanity and one's dignity. So if we
can create a sense of safety, we can get some
really good work. done. I mean, and sometimes
safety, just creating a sense of safety for a
client is in and of itself, the treatment. I
also think that, and one of the things I try
to impart is because creativity, art -based interventions,
dance in particular, are kinesthetic in nature,
the body and movement are inherent in the therapeutic
process. The foundation of dance movement therapy
is built on techniques and principles that attend
to kinesthetic or movement processes. The cornerstone
of dance movement therapy is kinesthetic empathy.
That is the nonverbal analog of verbal empathy
that we teach our students how to empathize appropriately,
how to use active listening, how to reflect.
This is done oftentimes verbally, but so much
of it is done non -verbally. So helping new clinicians
understand how their own body and movement in
relationship to somebody else can be used. This
is really the idea of developing use of self,
developing a sense of kinesthetic empathy so
that we can promote more accurate attunement.
This can be through voice, tone of voice, prosody,
posture, noticing, I mean, something like noticing
incongruence between what a client says and what
their body is saying, right? So you have a client
saying everything's fine, everything's fine,
but there's so much tension or a balled up fist,
right? So pointing that out, hold on, you're
saying one thing, but I'm seeing something else.
You know, if that fist opened, what would that
fist say? Right? What if we soften the right.
So there's all different kinds of ways to work
with what we're seeing in the therapeutic space.
And, you know, that that, you know, the therapeutic
relationship is a creative endeavor, I think
therapy in general, as a creative endeavor, because
you have to be in the moment, you have to respond
your respond to yourself, respond to the other,
create something new together in that liminal
space in between. And it's collaborative, it's
mutual. We're trying to develop a sense of safety,
which are all trauma -informed care principles.
So using the arts in social work also fosters,
can foster if it's used well and thoughtfully,
a trauma -informed approach. And then another
thing we do I just I do have to give a shout
out to a window between worlds. So this is a
an organization based in LA, and they work with
other organizations that in court teaching them
how to create incorporate creative expression
into their work with survivors they do incredible
work so we've been able to get some scholarships
for our interns and our clinicians to get training
in that so they can bring that to their clients
and then bring it back to the TRC and it's kind
of a train -the -trainer model. Yes, I just wonder,
I just want to add yesterday we had a meeting
with Windows between World and we're trying to
bring them for all students. Yes. But first for
for the faculty and the staff. Yes. It's so important
and I just want to also share that we have more
incorporated about the arts in the professional
self -care course that now everybody needs to
take where they have a whole unit about you and
the arts and how do you actually take care of
yourself as a clinician, as a practitioner of
social work, utilizing the arts. So we are incorporating
that we're going in that way, you know, and I
think that's the that's the future. This is so
exciting. I am so sad that we have to wrap up
soon, but I would like to really end on maybe
one final thought that you want our listeners
to know about this topic. I'll start with you,
Danielle, and then Michal, if you can finish
us up with one final thought. I think art is
accessible to everybody, anybody and everybody.
Love that. Thank you. Michal? The one thing to
know is that The arts is it's like a treasure
box. It has so many benefits that you just have
to do it. You and for your clients. Oh gosh,
love that. I feel rejuvenated. I want to do something
artful right now. But I'd like to say thank you
to Michal and to Danielle for joining us for
a great discussion. If you would like to learn
more about work in arts and social work practice,
please visit our website at dworekpeck.usc.edu.
If you're interested in Michal's book,
Social Work and the Arts: Expanding Horizons,
it's also available on Amazon. And if you would
like to network with our guests regarding their
work or want to support our transformative research
and programs, please email us at
listenuppeople@usc.edu. We'd love to hear more from you
and thanks for listening. Fight on!