WEBVTT 00:00:14.279 --> 00:00:17.480 Hello and welcome to Listen.Up.People., a podcast 00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:20.260 of the USC Suzanne Dworak-Peck School of Social 00:00:20.260 --> 00:00:23.140 Work. I'm Dr. Holly Priebe Sotelo, Associate 00:00:23.140 --> 00:00:26.420 Teaching Professor of Practicum Education. The 00:00:26.420 --> 00:00:29.379 use of the arts in social work practice can be 00:00:29.379 --> 00:00:31.739 an important tool for improving mental health. 00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:35.159 It often acts as a bridge to build trust between 00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:38.020 client and therapist and allows practitioners 00:00:38.020 --> 00:00:41.060 to work with clients on an emotional rather than 00:00:41.060 --> 00:00:44.670 just a factual level. If you are unfamiliar with 00:00:44.670 --> 00:00:47.710 how the arts incorporate into social work, my 00:00:47.710 --> 00:00:50.450 guests today have an extensive experience in 00:00:50.450 --> 00:00:53.909 the use of expressive practices to improve health 00:00:53.909 --> 00:00:57.049 and wellness. I'm excited for them to share their 00:00:57.049 --> 00:00:59.710 knowledge and work in this area and how they 00:00:59.710 --> 00:01:02.609 are advancing the arts and social work. I'd like 00:01:02.609 --> 00:01:06.150 to welcome my social work colleagues, Dr. Michal 00:01:06.150 --> 00:01:09.670 Sela-Amit, Associate Teaching Professor, and 00:01:09.670 --> 00:01:12.150 Danielle Brown, Associate Teaching Professor 00:01:12.150 --> 00:01:14.810 of Practicum Education. Thank you so much for 00:01:14.810 --> 00:01:17.450 joining me today. Thank you for having us. Thank you Holly. 00:01:17.450 --> 00:01:20.549 So I'd like to start with a personal 00:01:20.549 --> 00:01:24.069 question for our listeners, just to give us an 00:01:24.069 --> 00:01:26.290 understanding about how you became interested 00:01:26.290 --> 00:01:29.890 in arts and the expressive practice within social 00:01:29.890 --> 00:01:31.769 work. Why don't we start with Michal and then 00:01:31.769 --> 00:01:34.170 Danielle, please? Sure. Sure. Thank you so much. 00:01:34.430 --> 00:01:37.250 So honestly, I don't think I could have evaded 00:01:37.250 --> 00:01:39.810 interest in the arts because I grew up, I was 00:01:39.810 --> 00:01:43.549 very privileged to grow up in a house that really 00:01:43.549 --> 00:01:47.609 valued arts. And my mom was singing all the time. 00:01:47.829 --> 00:01:51.250 My dad was a great storyteller and a dancer, 00:01:51.310 --> 00:01:53.989 even better than that. And we were all expected 00:01:53.989 --> 00:01:58.250 to play an instrument, be part of a band or an 00:01:58.250 --> 00:02:01.299 orchestra. And so we're like, There's no other 00:02:01.299 --> 00:02:04.299 ways. This is part of life and it's an enjoyable 00:02:04.299 --> 00:02:07.640 part of life. And so when I came to social work, 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:10.419 it was just like, you know, very easy for me 00:02:10.419 --> 00:02:15.340 to notice that this is sometimes very much absent 00:02:15.340 --> 00:02:18.539 in what we're doing. And I worked with residential 00:02:18.539 --> 00:02:22.379 kids that were abused and neglect and they had 00:02:22.379 --> 00:02:26.879 an option. Those who wanted could use the workshop 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:30.419 that they had with the arts and those who didn't 00:02:30.419 --> 00:02:33.199 had to go to whatever other kind of activities 00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:35.509 such as soccer or something like that. And I 00:02:35.509 --> 00:02:39.830 saw a huge change in those that actually came 00:02:39.830 --> 00:02:43.310 to the arts and they had all sorts of like clay 00:02:43.310 --> 00:02:45.669 and photography and all sorts of things like 00:02:45.669 --> 00:02:49.590 that. They were more composed. They were more 00:02:49.590 --> 00:02:52.930 connected somehow and their behavioral problems 00:02:52.930 --> 00:02:56.889 really decreased very quickly. So that was like 00:02:56.889 --> 00:03:01.169 the way it went. And Danielle? Sure. So I started 00:03:01.169 --> 00:03:04.110 out as a dancer and that was my passion. and 00:03:04.110 --> 00:03:08.430 my professional pursuit in life. You know, a 00:03:08.430 --> 00:03:12.069 dancer's life is short. So maybe around 35, 40, 00:03:12.509 --> 00:03:14.870 I'd become a therapist. So I was always very 00:03:14.870 --> 00:03:18.789 interested in psychology also. And at some point 00:03:18.789 --> 00:03:22.370 in college, a professor mentioned something about 00:03:22.370 --> 00:03:24.939 dance therapy. I went to the library, I got some 00:03:24.939 --> 00:03:27.159 books, some articles. I said, oh my god, there's 00:03:27.159 --> 00:03:30.479 already exists a field that, that marries these 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:33.780 two passions of mine. So I pursued a master's 00:03:33.780 --> 00:03:36.580 degree in dance movement therapy, and then I 00:03:36.580 --> 00:03:38.900 wanted more clinical training. And I had had 00:03:38.900 --> 00:03:41.199 a therapist who was a licensed clinical social 00:03:41.199 --> 00:03:43.759 worker who was just fabulous and talked to me 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:45.620 about the field. And I thought, okay, this is 00:03:45.620 --> 00:03:48.400 really, this is really for me. So Then I did 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:53.199 my master's in social work and was able to use 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:56.699 both movement and dance therapy and my clinical 00:03:56.699 --> 00:04:00.620 social work skills starting in my first internship. 00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:04.120 Excellent. I love learning more about you both. 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:07.419 So, Michal, for our listeners who may be hearing 00:04:07.419 --> 00:04:10.199 about this concept for the first time, can you 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:13.319 give us an overview of the arts and social work 00:04:13.319 --> 00:04:17.180 and the impact it can have on one on one's well 00:04:17.180 --> 00:04:19.560 -being? Of course, I'd love to. You know what? 00:04:19.660 --> 00:04:22.420 All we need to do is go back to Hull House. 00:04:22.839 --> 00:04:26.160 And I was like amazed by what I found when I 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:29.740 did some reading about Hull House and how Jane 00:04:29.740 --> 00:04:35.480 Addams and Ellen Gate Starr were really emphasizing 00:04:35.480 --> 00:04:39.480 in any possible way the arts in whatever work 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:42.319 that they were doing there. They had culture 00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:46.199 dancing, they had workshops, they had theater, 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:49.740 they had like gallery, they had readings and 00:04:49.740 --> 00:04:53.370 writing, and I was like asking myself Why? How 00:04:53.370 --> 00:04:56.129 is all this related? And I was like, is that 00:04:56.129 --> 00:04:59.389 really the same thing that I'm seeing with those 00:04:59.389 --> 00:05:03.610 kiddos that are in residential is happening also 00:05:03.610 --> 00:05:06.550 on a much bigger scale that you can actually 00:05:06.550 --> 00:05:10.689 build communities and build someone's self -esteem 00:05:10.689 --> 00:05:14.389 using the arts? And I think the answer is definitely 00:05:14.389 --> 00:05:18.589 so. If you look at pictures and some movies that 00:05:18.589 --> 00:05:23.660 we have from that era, we can see that very clearly 00:05:23.660 --> 00:05:27.360 about the faces of the people that were there. 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:32.620 And so it is not coincidental that later on our 00:05:32.620 --> 00:05:35.959 history as social workers was heavily involved 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:39.639 with arts, heavily like, you know, psychodrama, 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:44.560 like working with community, building communities, 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:48.740 advocacy, in group work, oh my God, in group 00:05:48.740 --> 00:05:52.259 work, strong, strong. emphasis on the use of 00:05:52.259 --> 00:05:56.110 the arts because the use of the arts opens up 00:05:56.110 --> 00:06:00.209 so many challenges for well -being. It starts 00:06:00.209 --> 00:06:04.769 with, you know, issues related to emotional processing 00:06:04.769 --> 00:06:07.870 and ability to express emotions in different 00:06:07.870 --> 00:06:11.670 ways, more, you know, it helps with health and 00:06:11.670 --> 00:06:14.970 mental health. We know, you know, sometimes down 00:06:14.970 --> 00:06:18.529 the line, I think it was toward the 70s, the 00:06:18.529 --> 00:06:23.110 profession really changed and took a turn into 00:06:23.110 --> 00:06:26.230 focusing way more on evidence -based practice 00:06:26.230 --> 00:06:29.589 and the arts were like oh my god you know what 00:06:29.589 --> 00:06:32.509 are we doing with the arts is it evidence -based 00:06:32.509 --> 00:06:37.250 we didn't have ways to to say yes There weren't 00:06:37.250 --> 00:06:40.470 the research, the research was not there. But 00:06:40.470 --> 00:06:43.529 nowadays, like in the last 20 years, there's 00:06:43.529 --> 00:06:48.230 so many excellent research projects that shows 00:06:48.230 --> 00:06:52.149 the benefits of the arts. And it goes from the 00:06:52.149 --> 00:06:55.089 mental and the emotional health to the cognitive 00:06:55.089 --> 00:06:59.529 health of people and how it really helps people 00:06:59.529 --> 00:07:02.050 kind of like connect different parts of their 00:07:02.050 --> 00:07:05.730 brains using the art. It is about social and 00:07:05.730 --> 00:07:09.329 community. building and how you... and that's 00:07:09.329 --> 00:07:12.029 what I really really love about it. It's about 00:07:12.029 --> 00:07:16.569 your sense of self. Who are you? You know, what's 00:07:16.569 --> 00:07:20.410 your self -esteem? It boosts each and every part 00:07:20.410 --> 00:07:23.410 of it and it's good for babies and it's great 00:07:23.410 --> 00:07:27.339 for elderlies and anyone in between. I love that. 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:30.259 No group is left untouched, right? I mean, it's 00:07:30.259 --> 00:07:33.800 so beautiful. And I very vaguely, not vaguely, 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:37.540 but I remember working with the arts with young 00:07:37.540 --> 00:07:40.879 people who were incarcerated and how beneficial 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:44.560 that was for them. So which leads me to my next 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:47.930 question for Danielle is I know that you have 00:07:47.930 --> 00:07:51.529 a focus on trauma -informed care, and you actually 00:07:51.529 --> 00:07:55.149 are a board -certified dance and movement therapist. 00:07:55.529 --> 00:07:58.149 Can you tell us a little bit about how you use 00:07:58.149 --> 00:08:00.970 dance and movement to help individuals heal from 00:08:00.970 --> 00:08:03.449 trauma? Yeah, I think, you know, going off of 00:08:03.449 --> 00:08:06.110 some things that Michal said, like when we use 00:08:06.110 --> 00:08:10.310 art, dance, psychodrama, painting, whatever it 00:08:10.310 --> 00:08:13.699 is. Writing, you know, it allow it gives us space. 00:08:13.699 --> 00:08:16.959 I feel like for creative the creative pieces 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:20.180 of ourselves for nonverbal expression Right. 00:08:20.180 --> 00:08:23.139 So it gives us different ways to communicate 00:08:23.139 --> 00:08:25.279 nonverbally and if you think about like thinking 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:28.100 about babies The first way we communicate is 00:08:28.100 --> 00:08:31.839 nonverbally and we communicate all of our needs 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:35.899 without language So I feel like the art the arts 00:08:35.899 --> 00:08:39.779 Brings us back to our most fundamental cells, 00:08:40.139 --> 00:08:42.340 our most primal way of communicating. So there's 00:08:42.340 --> 00:08:45.299 something very, very powerful in that. And so 00:08:45.299 --> 00:08:47.940 in thinking about trauma treatment in particular, 00:08:48.980 --> 00:08:51.620 and thinking about survivors, we need to realize 00:08:51.620 --> 00:08:55.000 that survivors often don't have the language 00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:59.299 to talk about what happened, either because words 00:08:59.299 --> 00:09:03.899 just cannot and do not capture the fear, the 00:09:03.899 --> 00:09:07.320 horror, the intensity, the shame, whatever it 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:10.000 might be that the words just don't capture the 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:13.980 depth of the feeling. So that's one piece. The 00:09:13.980 --> 00:09:17.419 other piece, too, is that because of the nature 00:09:17.419 --> 00:09:19.879 of trauma and what happens to the brain during 00:09:19.879 --> 00:09:23.759 a traumatic event, survivors don't have a narrative, 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:26.860 oftentimes don't have a narrative, because our 00:09:26.860 --> 00:09:29.840 language centers go offline. during traumatic 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:32.639 events. So language literally isn't available. 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:35.720 So when we can use art, when we can use movement 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:38.940 dance as a nonverbal endeavor, we can really 00:09:38.940 --> 00:09:41.440 give a medium for expression and communication. 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:44.779 So it can be a really vital piece in healing. 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:47.940 And then the other piece, people with traumatic 00:09:47.940 --> 00:09:51.240 experiences often are living with an acute stress 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:55.230 response. Right, so this often manifests as in 00:09:55.230 --> 00:09:58.470 different physiological symptoms like hyper arousal 00:09:58.470 --> 00:10:01.450 or hypo arousal of the nervous system that fight 00:10:01.450 --> 00:10:04.730 flight or freeze response can be chronic in a 00:10:04.730 --> 00:10:07.769 way. So we can work with we work with movement 00:10:07.769 --> 00:10:10.769 we can work directly with the breath and directly 00:10:10.769 --> 00:10:15.389 with the body to help manage those physiological 00:10:15.389 --> 00:10:18.679 symptoms. I would love to add just a little bit 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:21.080 to it. And this is so great that you brought 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:25.480 it up, you know, the fact that for survivors 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:31.220 of trauma, it is so critical to utilize the arts 00:10:31.220 --> 00:10:34.610 because of them. multiple benefits, one of which 00:10:34.610 --> 00:10:39.110 Dr. Dan Siegel was really mentioning a lot, which 00:10:39.110 --> 00:10:42.049 is the connectivity of different regions of the 00:10:42.049 --> 00:10:46.110 brain. And the research shows that utilizing 00:10:46.110 --> 00:10:49.370 arts and that could be, and when I say utilizing 00:10:49.370 --> 00:10:51.769 art, it's like, you don't have to be an artist 00:10:51.769 --> 00:10:55.889 for it. You just need to use the arts. And it's 00:10:55.889 --> 00:10:59.470 not so important. The aesthetics of the product 00:10:59.470 --> 00:11:03.710 is way less important than actually the processing 00:11:03.710 --> 00:11:07.970 that goes on. And basically, he was saying that 00:11:07.970 --> 00:11:10.990 a healthy brain is a brain that has great connectivity 00:11:10.990 --> 00:11:14.809 of all parts of the brain. And that is exactly 00:11:14.809 --> 00:11:18.950 what arts are doing. When you're using the arts, 00:11:19.490 --> 00:11:21.830 every part of the brain is connected to a different 00:11:21.830 --> 00:11:24.720 part of the brain. Excellent. And I also want 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:27.419 to add that in one of our practicum courses we 00:11:27.419 --> 00:11:32.480 use an expressive arts assignment and it is sincerely 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:36.279 the highlight of the semester. Students by far 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:39.299 always comment that that is their favorite assignment 00:11:39.299 --> 00:11:42.320 and practicum in their early foundational years. 00:11:42.679 --> 00:11:46.500 So I see it firsthand with our students. And 00:11:46.500 --> 00:11:49.779 Michal, I know that you've worked with a group 00:11:49.779 --> 00:11:52.519 called the Unusual Suspects Theater Company. 00:11:52.980 --> 00:11:55.279 Can you tell us how you became involved with 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:57.960 this group and what has been your experience 00:11:57.960 --> 00:12:01.230 there? Sure, so it really starts with the fact 00:12:01.230 --> 00:12:04.809 that in in Israel where I'm coming from. There's 00:12:04.809 --> 00:12:11.009 tons of use of the arts in mental health. I learned 00:12:11.009 --> 00:12:14.490 about it there and I took some of our students 00:12:14.490 --> 00:12:19.090 in the global immersions to do the same. In one 00:12:19.090 --> 00:12:22.690 of them, I met Sally Fuhrman who was at the time 00:12:22.690 --> 00:12:24.950 the director of The Unusual Suspect and she said, 00:12:25.190 --> 00:12:27.929 well, why do you go all the way there when we 00:12:27.929 --> 00:12:30.830 have it in LA? I said, what do you have in LA? 00:12:31.470 --> 00:12:33.950 She was sharing about the unusual suspects and 00:12:33.950 --> 00:12:36.710 she was, she was inviting me to be part of the 00:12:36.710 --> 00:12:41.289 board, but also a consultant. And I just loved 00:12:41.289 --> 00:12:45.710 it. So the unusual suspect is a nonprofit focusing 00:12:45.710 --> 00:12:49.169 on those children that do not have access to 00:12:49.169 --> 00:12:53.690 the arts and that a lot of them are at risk of 00:12:53.690 --> 00:12:57.210 failing behind in schools. A lot of them have 00:12:57.210 --> 00:13:00.529 multiple traumas and some of them were in juvenile. 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:06.360 justice facilities and corrections. And the way 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:09.559 that they work is that they invite artists who 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:12.860 are teachers, who become mentors for those kids 00:13:12.860 --> 00:13:16.220 and help them out to write their own script and 00:13:16.220 --> 00:13:19.120 to put together an amazing, you know, theater 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:22.940 show. But they have no understanding of why the 00:13:22.940 --> 00:13:25.980 arts and how the arts are really impacting these 00:13:25.980 --> 00:13:28.820 kids and what's happening to the kids' brains 00:13:28.820 --> 00:13:32.840 and connect with others during it they see it 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:35.419 they don't understand the behind of it and so 00:13:35.419 --> 00:13:38.559 they don't even know like you know how does it 00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:42.379 work but they know the magic works and so I was 00:13:42.379 --> 00:13:45.779 working with them a lot to explain you know how 00:13:45.779 --> 00:13:48.899 to work and what to do and when not to push you 00:13:48.899 --> 00:13:52.100 know, which is so important and how to allow 00:13:52.100 --> 00:13:55.779 and that was just fascinating and I was helping 00:13:55.779 --> 00:13:59.320 them as a board member too to develop the company. 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:02.659 So now this company is like dealing with almost 00:14:02.659 --> 00:14:07.179 30 ,000 students a year that they reach out and 00:14:07.179 --> 00:14:10.259 it's all philanthropy and it's all money that 00:14:10.259 --> 00:14:12.580 you know and all kids that are really really 00:14:12.580 --> 00:14:17.440 in needs of this venue. So that was my experience 00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:20.320 with the... And I'm so happy to say that they 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:23.799 grew, but also many other companies about drumming, 00:14:24.139 --> 00:14:28.480 storytelling, dancing, came on board to enrich 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:32.480 the lives of our kiddos around LA. Amazing. And 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:35.279 I love that. And you help remind me of another 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:38.320 group that we work with also at the school is 00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:41.360 the kids in the spotlight, which are former foster 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:44.700 youth who are learning how to be filmmakers and 00:14:44.700 --> 00:14:48.460 storytellers through the work of filmmaking. 00:14:48.460 --> 00:14:51.100 And so that's something that we're also pretty 00:14:51.100 --> 00:14:55.259 proud of. By the way, they're doing the same 00:14:55.259 --> 00:14:58.820 thing. They're like getting those kids into college. 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:02.340 to learn about theater and then taking them back 00:15:02.340 --> 00:15:09.220 as theater teachers for other kids. So Danielle, 00:15:09.460 --> 00:15:12.279 just kind of continuing in with the conversation, 00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:15.279 what does the future of social work practice 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:17.840 look like with continued development of arts 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:20.799 and social work? And how can we expand the use 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:23.960 of expressive practices? I'm hopeful. So with 00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:26.620 different organizations, social workers, our 00:15:26.620 --> 00:15:30.889 MSW students, There is great interest in the 00:15:30.889 --> 00:15:33.710 arts and art -based interventions at all levels 00:15:33.710 --> 00:15:36.710 of social work. So I think we need to be explicit 00:15:36.710 --> 00:15:38.950 in teaching it and making it part of our curriculum. 00:15:39.429 --> 00:15:41.529 As you mentioned before, that expressive art 00:15:41.529 --> 00:15:45.149 therapy assignment is my favorite. It always 00:15:45.149 --> 00:15:47.570 seems to be the student's favorite. It's really 00:15:47.570 --> 00:15:50.809 so novel for a lot of them, but so meaningful. 00:15:51.409 --> 00:15:54.399 And it really teaches. as Michal was talking 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:57.399 about before, the process and not the product. 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:01.039 And I think art and dance in particular seems 00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:04.399 really out of reach and very foreign and scary 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:08.039 to non -artists. But again, going back to this 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:11.019 idea about the process and not the product. And 00:16:11.019 --> 00:16:14.970 I think... part of why it resonates so much with 00:16:14.970 --> 00:16:17.370 people, and I think social workers in particular 00:16:17.370 --> 00:16:24.210 maybe, because it really taps into a really fundamental 00:16:24.210 --> 00:16:28.529 aspect of being human, and it promotes one of 00:16:28.529 --> 00:16:31.370 social work's core values, which is the centrality 00:16:31.370 --> 00:16:34.259 and importance of human relationships. I think, 00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:35.840 you know, when we come back to thinking about 00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:37.500 dance movement in particular, because that's 00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:40.279 my focus, when we can work with the body and 00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:44.519 the creative use of movement, we can work with, 00:16:45.059 --> 00:16:46.779 as again, I was saying these different parts 00:16:46.779 --> 00:16:49.539 of our brain light up and connect. So we really 00:16:49.539 --> 00:16:55.320 can harness meaning making, expression, acceptance 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:59.019 of the self, and ultimately authenticity in relating 00:16:59.019 --> 00:17:03.450 to others. So if we can really be in our bodies 00:17:03.450 --> 00:17:05.650 embodied as a word we like to use. So really 00:17:05.650 --> 00:17:09.009 being of and in our bodies in a truly authentic 00:17:09.009 --> 00:17:14.410 way, we're better able to be with others in an 00:17:14.410 --> 00:17:17.730 authentic way as well. Thank you so much. I want 00:17:17.730 --> 00:17:20.869 to add one more thing and this is that it is 00:17:20.869 --> 00:17:23.230 strength perspective. It is absolutely strength. 00:17:23.230 --> 00:17:28.349 It is 100 % says, what are you good at? Let's 00:17:28.349 --> 00:17:32.240 discover it. Let's build on it. And this is so 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:35.119 much social work. That's right. That's right. 00:17:35.259 --> 00:17:37.460 Yeah. Yes. And with all, you know, and I, I always 00:17:37.460 --> 00:17:39.380 say with dance too, because I know that can be 00:17:39.380 --> 00:17:42.420 very scary for people to move their bodies, you 00:17:42.420 --> 00:17:45.440 know, intentionally. Um, but I always say, if 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:47.980 you can breathe, you can move. And if you can 00:17:47.980 --> 00:17:50.920 move, you can, breath is movement. When we breathe, 00:17:51.460 --> 00:17:54.900 our, our rib cage is expand and contract. That's 00:17:54.900 --> 00:17:59.829 movement. Right. So we can build on that. So 00:17:59.829 --> 00:18:03.049 it's always there. It's always accessible to 00:18:03.049 --> 00:18:05.930 us. And it is that most fundamental strength 00:18:05.930 --> 00:18:09.269 base. We have it. It's all within us. We just 00:18:09.269 --> 00:18:12.569 need the medium to let it out. Excellent. Love 00:18:12.569 --> 00:18:16.750 that. And Michal, you actually published a book 00:18:16.750 --> 00:18:20.230 last year called Social Work and the Arts, Expanding 00:18:20.230 --> 00:18:23.029 Horizons. Can you tell us about it and why it 00:18:23.029 --> 00:18:25.369 might be helpful for anyone interested in this 00:18:25.369 --> 00:18:31.009 topic? Yeah, this book is basically covering 00:18:31.009 --> 00:18:35.910 the different areas by which social work can 00:18:35.910 --> 00:18:40.390 really expand horizons. How social workers working 00:18:40.390 --> 00:18:45.210 with clients on all different types of clients 00:18:45.210 --> 00:18:49.670 can also learn and utilize the arts from reading 00:18:49.670 --> 00:18:52.529 about others who are doing it, understanding 00:18:52.529 --> 00:18:55.869 key processes, what to do and why. not to do. 00:18:56.069 --> 00:18:59.490 For example, we're not interpreting clients' 00:18:59.769 --> 00:19:04.049 work and why is that important? It also showcases 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:08.539 All of the people who are in the book and writing 00:19:08.539 --> 00:19:10.880 parts of the book are social workers who are 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:13.140 engaged with the arts themselves in different 00:19:13.140 --> 00:19:17.180 components. So it really broadened up the perspective 00:19:17.180 --> 00:19:20.680 of what can be done with social work and the 00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:25.140 arts. Because we, you know, it's an incredible 00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:28.740 and necessary tool for social workers to have. 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:34.950 And I think it will bring to readers courage 00:19:34.950 --> 00:19:39.970 to try to use to open up themselves because if 00:19:39.970 --> 00:19:42.849 you do not open up yourself you cannot help others 00:19:42.849 --> 00:19:46.250 as we know that very well in social work so this 00:19:46.250 --> 00:19:48.730 is the book it talks about the research in social 00:19:48.730 --> 00:19:51.730 work it talks about you know clients in social 00:19:51.730 --> 00:19:55.089 work about communities in social work and in 00:19:55.089 --> 00:19:58.230 research in social work and with the arts so 00:19:58.230 --> 00:20:01.490 everything with the arts Excellent. Love that. 00:20:02.210 --> 00:20:05.349 And Danielle, I'd like to give you a chance to 00:20:05.349 --> 00:20:08.730 talk about our excellent Trauma Recovery Center 00:20:08.730 --> 00:20:12.710 at USC at our school and your role within it 00:20:12.710 --> 00:20:15.210 as it relates to bringing the arts and creative 00:20:15.210 --> 00:20:19.289 expression into the MSW student intern program. 00:20:19.549 --> 00:20:20.470 Can you share a little bit about that? Absolutely. 00:20:20.529 --> 00:20:23.509 Thank you for that. Yes. So I am incredibly proud 00:20:23.509 --> 00:20:27.799 of our Trauma Recovery Center at USC. For those 00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:30.900 who don't know, the Trauma Recovery Center is 00:20:30.900 --> 00:20:36.420 a trauma -informed care model that provides free 00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:39.680 therapy and case management services to survivors 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:42.859 of crime. And because we are telehealth -based, 00:20:43.019 --> 00:20:45.759 we can work with clients throughout California 00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:50.339 virtually, and we do see clients in person at 00:20:50.339 --> 00:20:53.200 our office on campus in the School of Social 00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:57.779 Work. And so we do have, we have four associate 00:20:57.779 --> 00:21:01.720 social workers who all graduated from USC and 00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:05.900 right now three interns, MSW interns. So I am 00:21:05.900 --> 00:21:10.019 always trying to find ways to bring in ideas 00:21:10.019 --> 00:21:14.000 about art, creativity, and movement into my supervision 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:17.690 practices and the training that we do. The first 00:21:17.690 --> 00:21:21.910 thing I teach about and continue to underscore 00:21:21.910 --> 00:21:25.390 is that when we're working with trauma and survivors 00:21:25.390 --> 00:21:28.170 of trauma, the most important piece, the primary 00:21:28.170 --> 00:21:32.309 goal is to create a sense of safety for the client 00:21:32.309 --> 00:21:35.329 and within the client. One idea of safety and 00:21:35.329 --> 00:21:38.630 trauma recover begins in the body, extends to 00:21:38.630 --> 00:21:40.789 the relationship one has with themselves, and 00:21:40.789 --> 00:21:43.750 eventually to the relationships they have with 00:21:43.750 --> 00:21:48.250 others. So I think this is a safety trust relationship 00:21:48.250 --> 00:21:52.269 continuum. And this really is fundamental to 00:21:52.269 --> 00:21:56.390 that which is compromised during trauma, which 00:21:56.390 --> 00:21:59.470 is one's humanity and one's dignity. So if we 00:21:59.470 --> 00:22:03.609 can create a sense of safety, we can get some 00:22:03.609 --> 00:22:06.289 really good work. done. I mean, and sometimes 00:22:06.289 --> 00:22:09.430 safety, just creating a sense of safety for a 00:22:09.430 --> 00:22:12.869 client is in and of itself, the treatment. I 00:22:12.869 --> 00:22:15.769 also think that, and one of the things I try 00:22:15.769 --> 00:22:21.450 to impart is because creativity, art -based interventions, 00:22:22.630 --> 00:22:25.869 dance in particular, are kinesthetic in nature, 00:22:27.069 --> 00:22:30.509 the body and movement are inherent in the therapeutic 00:22:30.509 --> 00:22:34.269 process. The foundation of dance movement therapy 00:22:34.269 --> 00:22:39.210 is built on techniques and principles that attend 00:22:39.210 --> 00:22:43.150 to kinesthetic or movement processes. The cornerstone 00:22:43.150 --> 00:22:45.609 of dance movement therapy is kinesthetic empathy. 00:22:46.049 --> 00:22:49.390 That is the nonverbal analog of verbal empathy 00:22:49.390 --> 00:22:54.589 that we teach our students how to empathize appropriately, 00:22:54.930 --> 00:22:58.089 how to use active listening, how to reflect. 00:22:58.730 --> 00:23:01.809 This is done oftentimes verbally, but so much 00:23:01.809 --> 00:23:06.930 of it is done non -verbally. So helping new clinicians 00:23:06.930 --> 00:23:11.589 understand how their own body and movement in 00:23:11.589 --> 00:23:14.450 relationship to somebody else can be used. This 00:23:14.450 --> 00:23:18.150 is really the idea of developing use of self, 00:23:18.690 --> 00:23:22.349 developing a sense of kinesthetic empathy so 00:23:22.349 --> 00:23:24.809 that we can promote more accurate attunement. 00:23:25.170 --> 00:23:29.359 This can be through voice, tone of voice, prosody, 00:23:29.859 --> 00:23:33.440 posture, noticing, I mean, something like noticing 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:37.920 incongruence between what a client says and what 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.380 their body is saying, right? So you have a client 00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:42.119 saying everything's fine, everything's fine, 00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:44.660 but there's so much tension or a balled up fist, 00:23:44.660 --> 00:23:47.839 right? So pointing that out, hold on, you're 00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:50.059 saying one thing, but I'm seeing something else. 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:53.859 You know, if that fist opened, what would that 00:23:53.859 --> 00:23:58.099 fist say? Right? What if we soften the right. 00:23:58.140 --> 00:24:01.259 So there's all different kinds of ways to work 00:24:01.259 --> 00:24:05.039 with what we're seeing in the therapeutic space. 00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:09.519 And, you know, that that, you know, the therapeutic 00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:14.259 relationship is a creative endeavor, I think 00:24:14.259 --> 00:24:17.400 therapy in general, as a creative endeavor, because 00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:20.319 you have to be in the moment, you have to respond 00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:23.410 your respond to yourself, respond to the other, 00:24:23.930 --> 00:24:25.950 create something new together in that liminal 00:24:25.950 --> 00:24:29.690 space in between. And it's collaborative, it's 00:24:29.690 --> 00:24:34.829 mutual. We're trying to develop a sense of safety, 00:24:35.230 --> 00:24:37.130 which are all trauma -informed care principles. 00:24:37.490 --> 00:24:41.529 So using the arts in social work also fosters, 00:24:42.349 --> 00:24:45.150 can foster if it's used well and thoughtfully, 00:24:45.390 --> 00:24:48.480 a trauma -informed approach. And then another 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:50.400 thing we do I just I do have to give a shout 00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:55.119 out to a window between worlds. So this is a 00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:59.740 an organization based in LA, and they work with 00:24:59.740 --> 00:25:03.099 other organizations that in court teaching them 00:25:03.099 --> 00:25:06.420 how to create incorporate creative expression 00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:09.740 into their work with survivors they do incredible 00:25:09.740 --> 00:25:12.160 work so we've been able to get some scholarships 00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:17.440 for our interns and our clinicians to get training 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:20.180 in that so they can bring that to their clients 00:25:20.180 --> 00:25:22.579 and then bring it back to the TRC and it's kind 00:25:22.579 --> 00:25:25.519 of a train -the -trainer model. Yes, I just wonder, 00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:28.599 I just want to add yesterday we had a meeting 00:25:28.599 --> 00:25:32.079 with Windows between World and we're trying to 00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:36.180 bring them for all students. Yes. But first for 00:25:36.180 --> 00:25:39.759 for the faculty and the staff. Yes. It's so important 00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:43.240 and I just want to also share that we have more 00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:47.640 incorporated about the arts in the professional 00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.839 self -care course that now everybody needs to 00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:54.440 take where they have a whole unit about you and 00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:57.640 the arts and how do you actually take care of 00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:01.339 yourself as a clinician, as a practitioner of 00:26:01.339 --> 00:26:05.559 social work, utilizing the arts. So we are incorporating 00:26:05.559 --> 00:26:08.160 that we're going in that way, you know, and I 00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:11.359 think that's the that's the future. This is so 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:14.819 exciting. I am so sad that we have to wrap up 00:26:14.819 --> 00:26:18.380 soon, but I would like to really end on maybe 00:26:18.380 --> 00:26:21.480 one final thought that you want our listeners 00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:23.819 to know about this topic. I'll start with you, 00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:25.700 Danielle, and then Michal, if you can finish 00:26:25.700 --> 00:26:30.000 us up with one final thought. I think art is 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:32.700 accessible to everybody, anybody and everybody. 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:37.279 Love that. Thank you. Michal? The one thing to 00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:41.539 know is that The arts is it's like a treasure 00:26:41.539 --> 00:26:46.799 box. It has so many benefits that you just have 00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:51.660 to do it. You and for your clients. Oh gosh, 00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:54.299 love that. I feel rejuvenated. I want to do something 00:26:54.299 --> 00:26:57.859 artful right now. But I'd like to say thank you 00:26:57.859 --> 00:27:01.140 to Michal and to Danielle for joining us for 00:27:01.140 --> 00:27:03.940 a great discussion. If you would like to learn 00:27:03.940 --> 00:27:07.180 more about work in arts and social work practice, 00:27:07.539 --> 00:27:10.680 please visit our website at dworekpeck.usc.edu. 00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:14.119 If you're interested in Michal's book, 00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:17.160 Social Work and the Arts: Expanding Horizons, 00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:20.200 it's also available on Amazon. And if you would 00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:23.319 like to network with our guests regarding their 00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:26.759 work or want to support our transformative research 00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:30.799 and programs, please email us at 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:35.000 listenuppeople@usc.edu. We'd love to hear more from you 00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:36.940 and thanks for listening. Fight on!