WEBVTT 00:00:14.279 --> 00:00:17.019 Hello and welcome to Listen.Up.People., a podcast 00:00:17.019 --> 00:00:19.780 of the USC Suzanne Dworak-Peck School of Social 00:00:19.780 --> 00:00:22.660 Work. I'm Dr. Holly Priebe Sotelo, associate 00:00:22.660 --> 00:00:25.719 teaching professor of practicum education. We 00:00:25.719 --> 00:00:28.420 are in real time development of social work and 00:00:28.420 --> 00:00:31.500 technology. So much is happening with artificial 00:00:31.500 --> 00:00:34.799 intelligence alone. Today, we're going to take 00:00:34.799 --> 00:00:38.039 a look at where social work meets tech and the 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:40.299 ways in which it can be used for social good. 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:44.259 My guests have been considering the impact of 00:00:44.259 --> 00:00:46.679 an integration of technology and social work 00:00:46.679 --> 00:00:49.500 practice and education for the past few years. 00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:52.780 I'd like to welcome two of my social work colleagues 00:00:52.780 --> 00:00:56.280 to the show, Jennifer Parga and Jenebah Lewis, 00:00:56.570 --> 00:00:59.329 who are both associate teaching professors of 00:00:59.329 --> 00:01:02.049 practicum education. Great to have you both here. 00:01:02.049 --> 00:01:04.450 And I'm excited to learn more about this subject 00:01:04.450 --> 00:01:07.329 from the two of you. So I'd like to start off 00:01:07.329 --> 00:01:10.390 by asking a more personal question about how 00:01:10.390 --> 00:01:13.090 each of you became interested in the intersection 00:01:13.090 --> 00:01:16.609 of social work and technology. Why don't we start 00:01:16.609 --> 00:01:18.590 with you, Jenebah, and then we'll go to Jen. 00:01:19.010 --> 00:01:21.290 First, Holly, thank you for having us here today. 00:01:21.790 --> 00:01:25.349 Jen and I have conversations about technology 00:01:25.349 --> 00:01:28.069 and social work practice, whether it's in the 00:01:28.069 --> 00:01:30.849 professional realms or even in our personal lives 00:01:30.849 --> 00:01:32.870 all the time. So it's nice to be having this 00:01:32.870 --> 00:01:35.709 conversation with you today. But I want to first 00:01:35.709 --> 00:01:38.290 begin, at least for me, by professing to not 00:01:38.290 --> 00:01:41.150 be an expert in technology or artificial intelligence. 00:01:41.170 --> 00:01:44.230 So I just want to first say that. And while I 00:01:44.230 --> 00:01:48.310 am incredibly curious, I am concerned at the 00:01:48.310 --> 00:01:52.519 same time as a citizen, as a parent. and as a 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:55.959 social worker about this thing called technology, 00:01:56.120 --> 00:01:59.180 right? It's a conversation I think we all need 00:01:59.180 --> 00:02:02.239 to have, no matter how knowledgeable you are 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:04.700 about the subject, because it is all around us, 00:02:04.859 --> 00:02:08.680 and I think it is here to stay. Most of the conversations 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:12.500 I think is specifically around artificial intelligence, 00:02:12.639 --> 00:02:15.500 but Jen and I want to focus on the broader conversation 00:02:15.500 --> 00:02:19.199 of technology, which also includes AI or artificial 00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:23.240 intelligence. So on a personal note, I remember 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:26.560 sort of connecting with technology in this way. 00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:29.460 So many, many years ago, and I want to date myself, 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:33.639 as I graduated from the MSW program and began 00:02:33.639 --> 00:02:36.360 working in community mental health, I remember 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:40.340 us grappling with trying to figure out ways to 00:02:40.340 --> 00:02:43.530 increase access to care. there was a lot of gaps 00:02:43.530 --> 00:02:46.189 in which our clients were not coming to the office 00:02:46.189 --> 00:02:49.009 to receive mental health services, if you will, 00:02:49.050 --> 00:02:51.150 or they would not be able to see their psychiatrist 00:02:51.150 --> 00:02:54.689 for a variety of reasons. And so across Los Angeles 00:02:54.689 --> 00:02:56.849 County, we were trying to figure out ways of 00:02:56.849 --> 00:03:01.229 how can we eliminate or help to improve access 00:03:01.229 --> 00:03:04.930 to care for some of those clients. And so an 00:03:04.930 --> 00:03:08.509 idea came to mind that we would start doing video 00:03:08.509 --> 00:03:12.539 appointments. And I thought that was crazy. And 00:03:12.539 --> 00:03:14.400 some of my colleagues, we all thought it was 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:17.139 a crazy idea and that it would not work. And 00:03:17.139 --> 00:03:19.979 so in many meetings, we started sharing our thoughts 00:03:19.979 --> 00:03:24.060 about why this would be an issue, including trust 00:03:24.060 --> 00:03:27.039 and, you know, the system is not going to work. 00:03:27.379 --> 00:03:30.000 Our clients, you know, may not want to talk to 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:32.780 us or the psychiatrist through a video screen. 00:03:33.159 --> 00:03:36.139 But what we found was, is while there were some 00:03:36.139 --> 00:03:39.740 clients who did not necessarily like the idea 00:03:39.740 --> 00:03:43.050 or utilize this, some did. and we were able to 00:03:43.050 --> 00:03:44.949 address the access to care, right? And so we 00:03:44.949 --> 00:03:47.870 now see this as a part of telehealth and telebehavioral 00:03:47.870 --> 00:03:50.469 health, which I've been a provider of and also 00:03:50.469 --> 00:03:52.569 a consumer of. So those are positive outcomes. 00:03:52.830 --> 00:03:54.689 The other thing I would say in terms of from 00:03:54.689 --> 00:03:57.330 a personal note, and then I'll turn it over to 00:03:57.330 --> 00:04:00.069 Jen so that I'm not speaking so much, but I 00:04:00.069 --> 00:04:04.699 just, I've watched older relatives. who's utilized 00:04:04.699 --> 00:04:08.219 technology and trying to navigate like automated 00:04:08.219 --> 00:04:11.159 systems and becoming incredibly frustrated and 00:04:11.159 --> 00:04:13.259 so I would have to you know step in to help them 00:04:13.259 --> 00:04:15.919 to navigate those systems or they would tell 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:18.420 me I need to go online to fill out paperwork 00:04:18.420 --> 00:04:20.980 just to get a service or to do this and I don't 00:04:20.980 --> 00:04:23.759 know how to do that and so I think about this 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:26.240 as a social worker as the digital divide right 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:29.100 so the inequities that that's coming up. And 00:04:29.100 --> 00:04:31.699 so I'm seeing that in my personal life and thinking 00:04:31.699 --> 00:04:33.680 about why I know that there's other families 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:35.519 that are going through this and other communities 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:37.980 that are experiencing this and what can we do 00:04:37.980 --> 00:04:40.019 about this as social workers. And then lastly, 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:44.629 I'm a parent and My daughter, I remember when 00:04:44.629 --> 00:04:46.589 she was small, she's a teenager, y 'all, I won't 00:04:46.589 --> 00:04:50.230 go into that. But when she was smaller, we would 00:04:50.230 --> 00:04:52.990 go to the park, we would have safety conversations 00:04:52.990 --> 00:04:54.930 around how to stay safe. And so I would give 00:04:54.930 --> 00:04:58.089 her a lot of the ways to remain safe when we 00:04:58.089 --> 00:05:01.029 would be at the park. But she's grown up with 00:05:01.029 --> 00:05:03.550 tablets and iPads, which if you are listening 00:05:03.550 --> 00:05:07.069 in the audience, your kids or maybe you might 00:05:07.069 --> 00:05:10.730 even grown up with tablets, right? And so I remember 00:05:10.730 --> 00:05:14.079 sitting with her and looking at a game she was 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:16.459 playing. And I became a bit concerned because 00:05:16.459 --> 00:05:19.100 of what I was noticing happening. And it was 00:05:19.100 --> 00:05:21.980 in that moment that I realized the playground 00:05:21.980 --> 00:05:25.839 that I once grew up on or grew up playing on 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:28.560 has now changed for my daughter. Her playground 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:32.310 is a digital playground. And so now this conversation 00:05:32.310 --> 00:05:34.990 around safety has to change. There's no blueprint 00:05:34.990 --> 00:05:37.290 for this, right? My mom couldn't share how to 00:05:37.290 --> 00:05:40.189 do this or how to navigate this, but I had to 00:05:40.189 --> 00:05:42.009 learn early on, and I think many other families 00:05:42.009 --> 00:05:44.689 are grappling with this. Excellent. Thank you, Jenebah. 00:05:44.810 --> 00:05:47.269 And Jen, what about you? 00:05:47.269 --> 00:05:49.509 Yeah, so I appreciate that context, Jenebah. You know, 00:05:49.689 --> 00:05:53.589 my kind of discovery with technology or... wanting 00:05:53.589 --> 00:05:56.430 to be curious about that. I realized while thinking 00:05:56.430 --> 00:05:59.910 about this podcast that it was really about piecing 00:05:59.910 --> 00:06:03.290 together all these moments throughout my career. 00:06:03.790 --> 00:06:07.449 And one of the first ones was I was a community 00:06:07.449 --> 00:06:10.389 organizer and I was hired to do a community assessment 00:06:10.389 --> 00:06:15.430 in San Diego and, you know, straight to traditional 00:06:15.430 --> 00:06:17.610 organizing strategy. I'm going to go door knocking. 00:06:17.610 --> 00:06:21.209 I'm going to talk to every person and see whoever 00:06:21.209 --> 00:06:23.500 will talk to me about completing this survey 00:06:23.500 --> 00:06:27.740 that a funder was willing to utilize a neighborhood 00:06:27.740 --> 00:06:32.199 data to fund projects. So it was really exciting. 00:06:32.259 --> 00:06:34.079 And I, you know, as a social worker, wanted to 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:38.120 get as many assessments or survey completions 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:41.040 as I could. And as I started door knocking and 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:43.699 the strategy was tell people about this survey, 00:06:43.939 --> 00:06:45.600 have them complete it when they get to their 00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:47.899 computer. And as I was doing the door knocking 00:06:47.899 --> 00:06:50.279 on the first day, I'm realizing they don't have 00:06:50.279 --> 00:06:52.600 access to computers. It's like telling them to 00:06:52.600 --> 00:06:55.120 go do something that they're never going to do. 00:06:55.180 --> 00:06:56.740 And now we're not going to get their input and 00:06:56.740 --> 00:06:59.740 say they never provided their voice or we didn't 00:06:59.740 --> 00:07:03.800 get their voice. And so I thought, man, I need 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:05.759 to bring the survey to them. And so, I mean, 00:07:05.800 --> 00:07:08.379 this is 20 years ago. So, you know, I'm advocating, 00:07:08.540 --> 00:07:11.860 I need like a tablet of some sort or like an 00:07:11.860 --> 00:07:16.579 iPad or something to help and be with. the community 00:07:16.579 --> 00:07:19.500 as they complete this assessment and we get their 00:07:19.500 --> 00:07:22.560 voice in real time and it might take longer so 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:27.160 please give me more time to get these surveys 00:07:27.160 --> 00:07:29.560 completed and so I look back on that I'm like 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:32.839 man I was thinking about how can we be efficient 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:35.699 and still reach our goal? And it was still social 00:07:35.699 --> 00:07:38.620 work. I was still engaging. But I was utilizing 00:07:38.620 --> 00:07:42.339 this technology that gave the neighborhood a 00:07:42.339 --> 00:07:45.000 layer of access that they didn't have. And so 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:49.069 I think that's where my desire. to utilize technology 00:07:49.069 --> 00:07:52.050 or information communication technologies like 00:07:52.050 --> 00:07:55.089 emails and scheduling, phone calls, websites, 00:07:55.250 --> 00:07:59.689 as a way to be more efficient and to allow social 00:07:59.689 --> 00:08:03.730 workers to have more time to focus on the client, 00:08:03.949 --> 00:08:06.569 obtaining the client voice and moving forward 00:08:06.569 --> 00:08:09.649 in those ways. Jennifer mentioned this context 00:08:09.649 --> 00:08:13.040 of how she came to be. That's my context. But 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:16.980 I think now, because we're in this present state 00:08:16.980 --> 00:08:20.819 of AI and large language models, Jennifer and 00:08:20.819 --> 00:08:23.759 I think back to our experiences 20 years ago, 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:26.810 and that's like our positionality with. with 00:08:26.810 --> 00:08:29.769 technology. And so in social work, I know we 00:08:29.769 --> 00:08:33.389 think of positionality on how that relates to 00:08:33.389 --> 00:08:36.549 your social identities. So race, gender, class, 00:08:36.629 --> 00:08:40.289 and your ability and how those identities shape 00:08:40.289 --> 00:08:44.429 your perspective. So if I'm using that same tech 00:08:44.429 --> 00:08:48.769 positionality, I would anchor my positionality 00:08:48.769 --> 00:08:52.830 in I used tech in my practice 20 years ago. I 00:08:52.830 --> 00:08:56.559 grew up analog, like beta was on the way out. 00:08:56.700 --> 00:08:59.779 I had a video home system, my VHS tape. I put 00:08:59.779 --> 00:09:03.820 my little, my video in and I was kind and I rewinded 00:09:03.820 --> 00:09:06.200 and I, you know, send it back to Blockbuster. 00:09:06.620 --> 00:09:09.019 But that's what I grew up with and that's what 00:09:09.019 --> 00:09:12.559 I know. My adult life has been digital. And so... 00:09:13.750 --> 00:09:16.629 I've straddled both of these worlds and kind 00:09:16.629 --> 00:09:20.029 of can speak to both languages, right? The analog, 00:09:20.210 --> 00:09:22.049 like I'm gonna go door to door, I'm gonna knock 00:09:22.049 --> 00:09:24.330 and that's the traditional practice. And then 00:09:24.330 --> 00:09:28.559 I also am like. Like let's do this in a way that 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:32.539 allows us to be in this digital space and still 00:09:32.539 --> 00:09:36.019 hold on to the essence of social work and things 00:09:36.019 --> 00:09:39.360 like that. So question for you from Jenebah 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:43.059 and I, what would you consider your tech positionality? 00:09:43.500 --> 00:09:45.820 Ooh, I love it. I love the guests are turning 00:09:45.820 --> 00:09:50.340 on the host here. I love that. And my tech. positionality. 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:52.980 I never really thought about that term, to be 00:09:52.980 --> 00:09:55.259 quite honest. And I'm a little older than both 00:09:55.259 --> 00:09:57.580 of you. And I think to myself, gosh, I grew up 00:09:57.580 --> 00:10:00.460 in the 70s and the 80s where, I mean, pagers 00:10:00.460 --> 00:10:02.580 didn't even come out. I think when I was working 00:10:02.580 --> 00:10:04.940 at DCF Fest, we didn't even have a cell phone. 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:08.580 So I think for me, I'm still at that place in 00:10:08.580 --> 00:10:12.039 my life where I am, you know, not very trusting 00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:14.879 of all technologies. I'm always wary of like, 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:17.419 is this a scam? What am I doing? You know, so 00:10:17.419 --> 00:10:20.440 I'm a little wary about that. but I do learn 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:22.779 so much from my students. I learned so much from 00:10:22.779 --> 00:10:25.600 my colleagues like you both. And obviously I 00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:29.139 learned from my daughter who is a millennial 00:10:29.139 --> 00:10:31.519 and she answers all of my questions. But yeah, 00:10:31.580 --> 00:10:35.620 there's so much about this topic that I am still 00:10:35.620 --> 00:10:38.080 learning. And so I'm so excited that we have 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:42.100 this topic. There's a variety, a spectrum of 00:10:42.100 --> 00:10:45.740 a gap in social work and technology, which leads 00:10:45.740 --> 00:10:48.799 me to my next question really, for you both is 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:52.059 like, how is social work related to technology 00:10:52.059 --> 00:10:55.779 and where do we even start? 00:10:55.779 --> 00:10:58.860 Technology is already a part of social work practice. I think we've 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:02.000 talked about various instances already. Jen, 00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:04.639 you had mentioned information communication technology, 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:08.200 and that's at its basic function, right? Where 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:10.960 we're emailing clients, emailing each other. 00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:14.080 using various platforms to do that, maybe even 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:16.679 using scheduling reminders for our clients to 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:20.080 come to appointments. I'm even thinking about 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:22.980 electronic health record systems. Many of our 00:11:22.980 --> 00:11:25.299 audience members are using, probably all of you, 00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:28.620 and have learned about best practices on how 00:11:28.620 --> 00:11:31.820 to protect client data and integrated care systems, 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:34.659 how to share information across clinical departments 00:11:34.659 --> 00:11:39.690 or systems of care. the use of technology already 00:11:39.690 --> 00:11:41.990 in our practice. And then there's sort of more 00:11:41.990 --> 00:11:45.350 of the advanced use. Right. And so there's the 00:11:45.350 --> 00:11:47.750 telehealth platforms that we're currently using, 00:11:48.110 --> 00:11:51.610 whether you're utilizing it on computer or even 00:11:51.610 --> 00:11:54.889 on your phone device. Right. And so there is 00:11:54.889 --> 00:11:59.190 also the use where Many agencies or social workers 00:11:59.190 --> 00:12:02.090 might be having their clients to monitor or track 00:12:02.090 --> 00:12:05.990 their symptoms and wellness using apps. So there's 00:12:05.990 --> 00:12:08.610 apps that are, that's helping us to do the work, 00:12:08.710 --> 00:12:11.070 to even apps that can help support and manage 00:12:11.070 --> 00:12:13.049 wellness, right? And so clients and community 00:12:13.049 --> 00:12:16.129 members can go to an app to help support them, 00:12:16.149 --> 00:12:18.190 like leading them through sort of a grounding 00:12:18.190 --> 00:12:20.990 exercise or listening to music, those sorts of 00:12:20.990 --> 00:12:23.210 things on your phone device. I mean, I'm sure 00:12:23.210 --> 00:12:25.549 many of us have done that. And then there's even 00:12:25.549 --> 00:12:28.429 case management. I'm sure all of us could raise 00:12:28.429 --> 00:12:30.490 it. We're all could raise our hands in this room 00:12:30.490 --> 00:12:34.049 in this digital space where we've given a referral, 00:12:34.250 --> 00:12:36.889 a paper referral to a client for them to link 00:12:36.889 --> 00:12:38.909 them to services, right? Well, there are platforms 00:12:38.909 --> 00:12:42.149 now where you can do sort of care coordination 00:12:42.149 --> 00:12:44.629 thinking of one. And we actually had a guest 00:12:44.629 --> 00:12:47.789 in one of our events, Jen and I events in the 00:12:47.789 --> 00:12:50.909 past one degree. It's a platform that we can 00:12:50.909 --> 00:12:53.450 utilize to help clients. and their referrals 00:12:53.450 --> 00:12:55.710 so we can link them through a sort of a digital 00:12:55.710 --> 00:12:58.929 platforms rather than giving them a paper referral. 00:12:59.370 --> 00:13:01.490 That's helped, I think, support our work and 00:13:01.490 --> 00:13:03.909 to make it more efficient, but also to close 00:13:03.909 --> 00:13:06.149 the gap in the loop and did the client actually 00:13:06.149 --> 00:13:09.529 make it to that referral, right? So there's that 00:13:09.529 --> 00:13:12.570 piece. and how technology has been really helpful. 00:13:12.909 --> 00:13:15.070 And then I think there's opportunities for social 00:13:15.070 --> 00:13:18.450 workers to provide psycho education through digital 00:13:18.450 --> 00:13:20.710 technology or means such as like social media 00:13:20.710 --> 00:13:23.629 and YouTube. And there's so much information 00:13:23.629 --> 00:13:27.049 out there already and our community members are 00:13:27.049 --> 00:13:30.370 utilizing these platforms to seek information. 00:13:30.429 --> 00:13:33.549 So I think that. Us being experts in this area, 00:13:33.610 --> 00:13:35.669 there's a real opportunity for us to continue 00:13:35.669 --> 00:13:38.789 to engage in these spaces, to provide information 00:13:38.789 --> 00:13:41.370 about mental health, wellness, social justice 00:13:41.370 --> 00:13:43.789 issues, et cetera, for community members to learn 00:13:43.789 --> 00:13:46.269 from us and for us to reach a larger audience 00:13:46.269 --> 00:13:47.970 or community. And then lastly, I'll just kind 00:13:47.970 --> 00:13:51.350 of say that I think about all of the things that's 00:13:51.350 --> 00:13:54.029 happening in society and advocacy and social 00:13:54.029 --> 00:13:56.409 justice is one of the pillars of the work that 00:13:56.409 --> 00:14:01.259 we do. And we can do that on social media, right? 00:14:02.320 --> 00:14:06.960 putting up really short reels on Instagram about 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:11.120 social justice issues or doing talks on YouTube 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:13.860 about various social justice issues and advocating 00:14:13.860 --> 00:14:16.259 for our clients. So not just in this space, but 00:14:16.259 --> 00:14:19.320 also in the wider space. In social work practice, 00:14:19.419 --> 00:14:22.940 we are training and educating, utilizing platforms 00:14:22.940 --> 00:14:26.700 such as this, Zoom, right? To teach and educate 00:14:26.700 --> 00:14:29.340 students about social work practice. You made 00:14:29.340 --> 00:14:32.360 me reflect on back when I started. Social Work 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:37.850 35 plus years ago using the Rolodex. how, where 00:14:37.850 --> 00:14:40.009 was my Rolodex? And it's like, oh, dang, did 00:14:40.009 --> 00:14:42.230 I pull that card out? Where's that card? You 00:14:42.230 --> 00:14:44.470 know, and not having, because we didn't have 00:14:44.470 --> 00:14:47.490 technology back then, no internet back when I 00:14:47.490 --> 00:14:51.350 started. So yes, I love, love this, the way that 00:14:51.350 --> 00:14:54.690 it has evolved our work. But love it. Thank you 00:14:54.690 --> 00:14:57.950 so much, Jenebah. And Jen, so where does the 00:14:57.950 --> 00:15:00.509 problem, I'm sorry, where does the profession 00:15:00.509 --> 00:15:04.250 of social work stand in relations to technology 00:15:04.250 --> 00:15:08.549 integration in practicum? or in curriculum? Short 00:15:08.549 --> 00:15:11.389 answer, I tend to have both, short and long answer. 00:15:11.590 --> 00:15:15.669 Short answer is the profession, organizations, 00:15:15.870 --> 00:15:18.769 and social workers are in different stages of 00:15:18.769 --> 00:15:21.009 change and acceptance. I'll leave it at that. 00:15:21.409 --> 00:15:25.710 The long answer is like when you shared, which 00:15:25.710 --> 00:15:27.990 I appreciate you sharing, because I think a lot 00:15:27.990 --> 00:15:30.889 of people can relate to the not trusting of technology. 00:15:31.289 --> 00:15:35.940 My hope is that folks can get to a thirst for 00:15:35.940 --> 00:15:38.679 knowledge, if you will, like transition that 00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:42.240 the fear or the not trusting into a curiosity 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:46.279 or an inquisition or things like that. And so 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:48.720 back to this long answer of where is the profession 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:52.460 in terms of technology integration, in practice, 00:15:52.700 --> 00:15:56.440 and or in curriculum. COVID really almost got 00:15:56.440 --> 00:15:59.779 a lot of folks, I would say the majority of folks 00:15:59.779 --> 00:16:04.370 on the same page of technology can be useful. 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:07.320 We can work from home. We can work remotely. 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:10.279 We can still be productive. And so I think that 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:12.940 was a big shift that folks, organizations, and 00:16:12.940 --> 00:16:15.620 businesses had. And that even applies to our 00:16:15.620 --> 00:16:19.200 professional organizations. So for example, the 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:22.259 National Association of Social Workers created 00:16:22.259 --> 00:16:25.320 the Code of Ethics, which we all adhere to and 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:29.940 know that we are held to and are held accountable, 00:16:30.460 --> 00:16:34.610 made some updates, maybe. man, must be eight, 00:16:34.629 --> 00:16:38.289 10 years ago that added a layer of technology 00:16:38.289 --> 00:16:41.750 into the code of ethics. So we're actually obligated 00:16:41.750 --> 00:16:45.899 to adhere to the code of ethics, which also includes 00:16:45.899 --> 00:16:49.340 the pieces of technology, whether we we trusted 00:16:49.340 --> 00:16:52.600 or not. But one of the main competencies that 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:56.679 were updated was about being competence and receiving 00:16:56.679 --> 00:16:59.600 training. And so I bring this up because it makes 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:03.820 me think about how we used to have the language 00:17:03.820 --> 00:17:07.390 about cultural competency. and that we kind of 00:17:07.390 --> 00:17:10.250 transition that to cultural humility. And I don't 00:17:10.250 --> 00:17:12.809 argue that we can do the same thing with technology, 00:17:13.269 --> 00:17:15.230 that we're not going to be competent in tech. 00:17:15.390 --> 00:17:17.490 We're not going to know everything. We're not 00:17:17.490 --> 00:17:19.049 going to know how to code. We're not going to 00:17:19.049 --> 00:17:21.390 know how to create apps. Maybe we will someday, 00:17:21.670 --> 00:17:24.769 parts of it. But I think there needs to be a 00:17:24.769 --> 00:17:28.869 technological humility that we bring to the table 00:17:28.869 --> 00:17:32.230 as social workers because our professional organization 00:17:32.230 --> 00:17:36.049 is calling us to do so. So that's one organization. 00:17:36.309 --> 00:17:39.990 Another one that I think about is the grand challenges 00:17:39.990 --> 00:17:42.809 for social work. And so we're not alone in having 00:17:42.809 --> 00:17:45.230 grand challenges. Other professions have grand 00:17:45.230 --> 00:17:47.509 challenges, engineering, occupational health, 00:17:47.730 --> 00:17:51.089 climate science. So we are a large organization 00:17:51.089 --> 00:17:55.319 of individuals at social workers with these call, 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:58.420 like a call to action. And we just celebrated 00:17:58.420 --> 00:18:00.859 our 10 year anniversary with the Grand Challenges. 00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:05.180 And so I'll admit to a bias there. I am on the 00:18:05.180 --> 00:18:07.339 leadership for the Grand Challenges. So I'll 00:18:07.339 --> 00:18:09.819 be like, okay, that's my shameless plug. But 00:18:09.819 --> 00:18:15.480 they are really trying to identify. where technology 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:17.880 intersects with all the other grand challenges 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:21.359 because technology isn't and I'm quoting Jonathan 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:23.599 Singer. If anybody knows him and his podcast 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:26.359 like technology isn't something to be solved 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:29.640 like we're not going to fix or solve or get rid 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:32.440 of or whatever you think the solution is to technology. 00:18:32.819 --> 00:18:35.720 That's not going to happen, but we do need to 00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:39.440 adjust our perspective to include technology 00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:43.640 in the practices that. that we all have. Another 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:47.440 standard that was created was the standards of 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:49.960 technology and social work practice and I actually 00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:53.059 brought this up to my class yesterday and I said 00:18:53.059 --> 00:18:55.359 I'm not going to make you read it no offense 00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:58.660 to the creators because it's 64 pages but I will 00:18:58.660 --> 00:19:04.299 tell you the main sections are very helpful to 00:19:04.299 --> 00:19:06.759 identify where you can explore more as a social 00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:10.000 worker. Do you want to explore the provisions 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:12.599 of information to the public? Like how, what 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:16.500 we say, who we are, and what we do. The trainings 00:19:16.500 --> 00:19:18.720 that we are, the certifications that we have, 00:19:19.059 --> 00:19:22.359 reflects and is accurate what people are consuming 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:24.359 on wherever they're getting your information. 00:19:24.990 --> 00:19:27.890 Back to the telehealth example from Jenebah about 00:19:27.890 --> 00:19:30.769 designing and delivering services. Are we doing 00:19:30.769 --> 00:19:34.390 it in an ethical way? Are we ensuring competence 00:19:34.390 --> 00:19:38.190 and informed consent? That was Jenebah's. From 00:19:38.190 --> 00:19:41.589 the clients that are on receiving services to 00:19:41.589 --> 00:19:44.509 a more administrative and macro level, are we 00:19:44.509 --> 00:19:46.650 gathering, managing, and storing information 00:19:46.650 --> 00:19:49.630 in a way that's maintaining confidentiality, 00:19:49.930 --> 00:19:53.549 that gives clients data privacy, that their security, 00:19:53.829 --> 00:19:58.470 I could go on. And then the last one is as faculty, 00:19:59.289 --> 00:20:03.009 we not only can deliver social work education 00:20:03.009 --> 00:20:06.430 via online education, create asynchronous material, 00:20:06.750 --> 00:20:09.509 but we also need to be proficient in how that's 00:20:09.509 --> 00:20:12.730 done, best practice in terms of our pedagogy 00:20:12.730 --> 00:20:15.990 and teaching online. So that area, I think, has 00:20:15.990 --> 00:20:18.250 really expanded a lot in the last few years. 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:21.279 I feel like in the clinical space, and I realize 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:23.880 I do this a lot. Like I try and find something 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:27.180 that are like clinical social workers can relate 00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:30.140 to and then connect it back to technology. But 00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:32.539 this one, for example, is like, if you think 00:20:32.539 --> 00:20:35.140 of like Judith Beck from like the CBT space, 00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:40.539 like she was a pioneer. She's created an institutionalized 00:20:40.539 --> 00:20:44.480 system, right? for CBT, there are also social 00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:47.640 workers that are the Judith Becks of technology. 00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:49.940 And so I just wanted to share a few of them in 00:20:49.940 --> 00:20:52.700 case folks want to really dive into the history. 00:20:53.220 --> 00:20:57.220 Walter Allamondola was huge in terms of information 00:20:57.220 --> 00:21:00.680 communication technology and how those functions 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:04.940 can support social practice. Frederick Reamer 00:21:04.940 --> 00:21:09.470 is kind of brings that ethical lens into tech. 00:21:10.029 --> 00:21:12.769 And I don't know if Jonathan Singer or Lori Goldkind 00:21:12.769 --> 00:21:15.049 will be mad that I'm saying that they're like 00:21:15.049 --> 00:21:17.730 the all these but goodies of technology. But 00:21:17.730 --> 00:21:20.349 Jonathan Singer has had a podcast for 20 years 00:21:20.349 --> 00:21:23.390 disseminating so like social work information 00:21:23.390 --> 00:21:26.720 and Lori Goldkind is actually now the editor 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:29.079 of the Journal of Technology and Human Services. 00:21:29.460 --> 00:21:31.539 And it's also in the community. So it's like, 00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:34.099 you can be both. You can be a social work practitioner 00:21:34.099 --> 00:21:37.700 and be engaged in technology. Oh my gosh. Jen, 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:41.200 I had no idea. I mean, it's just so beautiful 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:46.279 how thinking about it in very simple terms that 00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:50.720 we have not just a responsibility to integrate. 00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:53.619 technology and social work but there's been so 00:21:53.619 --> 00:21:57.019 many opportunities and being technologically 00:21:57.019 --> 00:22:00.759 humble I'm thinking is you know a lot of takeaways 00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:05.119 with that so then then tell our audience how 00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:08.099 do we prepare future social workers or or can 00:22:08.099 --> 00:22:10.900 we or can social work students tap into their 00:22:10.900 --> 00:22:14.119 existing knowledge of digital technologies and 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:18.019 and how to apply social work practice. So maybe 00:22:18.019 --> 00:22:22.220 Jenabah, if you could answer that or? 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:24.539 Sure. Thanks, Holly. That's a really great question. And I 00:22:24.539 --> 00:22:29.039 think it really responds to what Jen said in 00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:32.000 terms of there's an obligation. No matter if 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:37.740 you decide to have a huge focus on technology 00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:41.279 in your work, at the minimum, you should understand 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:45.259 the ethics of it. I think is what's critical 00:22:45.259 --> 00:22:47.440 and what's critical in our practice every day. 00:22:47.740 --> 00:22:50.299 And so Jen and I just had a conversation this 00:22:50.299 --> 00:22:52.339 week. I think you were alluding to this, Jen, 00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:55.940 about just even the very use of Zoom, right? 00:22:56.099 --> 00:22:59.559 And so AI is now integrated in our Zoom platforms 00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:02.400 and it can help us summarize our meetings. We 00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:05.059 no longer, unless you just like to write down 00:23:05.059 --> 00:23:09.180 notes or summaries of your meetings, but do we 00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:13.990 ask permission? to utilize AI in the meetings. 00:23:14.130 --> 00:23:17.809 We may inform, but we don't get consent. Two 00:23:17.809 --> 00:23:20.670 different things. And so it is even just small 00:23:20.670 --> 00:23:23.210 practices like that that we need to be aware 00:23:23.210 --> 00:23:26.829 of as we are interfacing with the various platforms. 00:23:26.950 --> 00:23:29.130 And those are things that we can teach our students, 00:23:29.130 --> 00:23:33.130 right, in terms of the ethics. So let me just 00:23:33.130 --> 00:23:35.809 start with, you know, one of our grand challenges, 00:23:36.089 --> 00:23:39.710 as Jen mentioned, and happy 10 years to our grand 00:23:39.710 --> 00:23:42.230 challenges is that one of them is harnessing 00:23:42.230 --> 00:23:45.650 technology for good. And one of the things that 00:23:45.650 --> 00:23:48.450 we recommend that the audience do or anyone who's 00:23:48.450 --> 00:23:53.990 listening is to perhaps read the original grand 00:23:53.990 --> 00:23:57.609 challenge concept paper on harnessing technology. 00:23:58.029 --> 00:24:00.269 that was developed so that you can kind of get 00:24:00.269 --> 00:24:03.589 a sense of the historical context and applicability 00:24:03.589 --> 00:24:06.470 to today's artificial intelligence environment. 00:24:06.569 --> 00:24:09.109 So that's one thing we could do is sort of propose 00:24:09.109 --> 00:24:11.809 that as a homework assignment for anyone who 00:24:11.809 --> 00:24:15.210 is listening. Part of Jen and I's conversations 00:24:15.210 --> 00:24:17.950 have also been around helping students to continue 00:24:17.950 --> 00:24:21.230 to be critical thinkers. while utilizing technology. 00:24:21.549 --> 00:24:23.690 I think that that's one of the fears is that 00:24:23.690 --> 00:24:26.390 we sort of take away that aspect of our work 00:24:26.390 --> 00:24:29.109 and that technology is doing everything for us. 00:24:29.509 --> 00:24:33.430 But how can we help them to do both, right? To 00:24:33.430 --> 00:24:36.690 continue to be critical thinkers, but also utilize 00:24:36.690 --> 00:24:39.789 technology in a way that it can help support 00:24:39.789 --> 00:24:42.549 and complement the work that we are already doing 00:24:42.549 --> 00:24:44.950 as social work. It's not takeover, right? And 00:24:44.950 --> 00:24:48.029 so it's kind of moving. the narrative from it's 00:24:48.029 --> 00:24:50.490 going to take over our jobs, but how can we use 00:24:50.490 --> 00:24:53.690 it in a way that is ethical, but that also can 00:24:53.690 --> 00:24:57.069 support and complement the work? And then I think 00:24:57.069 --> 00:25:00.210 preparing them to use and engage in digital spaces 00:25:00.210 --> 00:25:04.009 in an ethical way is incredibly important. We 00:25:04.009 --> 00:25:07.069 already teach interdisciplinary work in clinical 00:25:07.069 --> 00:25:09.869 practice or social work practice, so why not 00:25:09.869 --> 00:25:12.910 apply the same strategies, right? So all of us 00:25:12.910 --> 00:25:15.410 have talked about integrated behavioral health 00:25:15.410 --> 00:25:18.549 and in a professional education. And so I think 00:25:18.549 --> 00:25:22.690 what we can do as educators and in this sort 00:25:22.690 --> 00:25:25.269 of space is plant the seeds for social workers 00:25:25.269 --> 00:25:27.990 to be a part of the tech space, not that the 00:25:27.990 --> 00:25:31.049 tech space is over there and we're kind of outsiders, 00:25:31.210 --> 00:25:36.150 but that we are and can be a part of this process, 00:25:36.170 --> 00:25:40.190 meaning we can be participants from the start 00:25:40.190 --> 00:25:43.630 of an idea or concept. When we think about technology 00:25:43.630 --> 00:25:47.109 during the design process, during the implementation 00:25:47.109 --> 00:25:50.549 phase and even at the point of evaluation, right? 00:25:50.609 --> 00:25:54.809 So we can be a part of this idea or concept of 00:25:54.809 --> 00:25:58.589 technology in any way. We can encourage and plant 00:25:58.589 --> 00:26:01.130 the seeds for this. And so this is another area 00:26:01.130 --> 00:26:03.829 of interprofessional education from my perspective, 00:26:04.329 --> 00:26:06.130 right? We teach students integrated behavioral 00:26:06.130 --> 00:26:08.690 health. As I mentioned before, we can also do 00:26:08.690 --> 00:26:11.390 the same in tech space. And so we've taken seats 00:26:11.390 --> 00:26:16.000 in healthcare, education, government, public 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:19.660 safety. And so this is just yet another table 00:26:19.660 --> 00:26:23.799 for us to grab a seat to. And so my thought is 00:26:23.799 --> 00:26:27.339 that we can either get involved on the back end 00:26:27.339 --> 00:26:30.740 or the front end. This would be considered the 00:26:30.740 --> 00:26:33.259 front end. The back end would be us responding 00:26:33.259 --> 00:26:35.920 to the harm that is caused by the acceleration 00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:39.119 of technology. And so it is our thoughts that, 00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:41.359 you know, we can help students to really engage 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:46.720 in this process, but to be a part of the conversations, 00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:51.460 not in isolation, but also with others who are 00:26:51.460 --> 00:26:53.819 designing technology. And so having said that, 00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:56.420 I'll just briefly state that Jen and I, as a 00:26:56.420 --> 00:26:58.920 result of that, developed a course, Social Work 00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:02.549 310. It's an undergraduate course, and so it's 00:27:02.549 --> 00:27:05.509 to hopefully help social work students or students 00:27:05.509 --> 00:27:08.130 who are coming to the social work field to be 00:27:08.130 --> 00:27:10.950 engaged with students from other disciplines 00:27:10.950 --> 00:27:14.490 and diverse backgrounds, which includes technology 00:27:14.490 --> 00:27:17.599 or computer science. that they can collaborate 00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:19.900 and learn from each other and talk about the 00:27:19.900 --> 00:27:22.319 very ideas that we've been talking about and 00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:24.019 concepts that we've been talking about in this 00:27:24.019 --> 00:27:27.319 conversation. And so the hope is that through 00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:30.640 that collaboration, we are thinking about the 00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:33.920 ethical implications of the technology that we're 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:37.640 building, how we're implementing it, who's getting 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:41.460 left out. who's engaged, who's involved, who 00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:43.960 do we need to come sit at the table so that we're 00:27:43.960 --> 00:27:47.220 bringing that insight as social workers to the 00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:49.859 table into that conversation. And so we are launching 00:27:49.859 --> 00:27:52.500 this class to really provide an opportunity for 00:27:52.500 --> 00:27:56.160 students at USC to begin to have these conversations 00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:58.859 with each other so that they hopefully will then 00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:01.819 go out and do this work in collaboration and 00:28:01.819 --> 00:28:04.670 not in isolation. So. That is one way that I 00:28:04.670 --> 00:28:07.190 think we can have a second part of this, you 00:28:07.190 --> 00:28:10.490 know, sort of conversation around how we can 00:28:10.490 --> 00:28:13.450 help prepare and support students in the digital 00:28:13.450 --> 00:28:16.390 age. Excellent. Jenebah, you covered so much 00:28:16.390 --> 00:28:20.329 in this with this response. Jen, I know that 00:28:20.329 --> 00:28:23.190 there was also some information or some ideas 00:28:23.190 --> 00:28:26.509 about some, you know, some of the concerns about 00:28:26.509 --> 00:28:29.210 technology. Did you want to add about, you know, 00:28:29.309 --> 00:28:31.190 what are some of the concerns? Jennifer started 00:28:31.190 --> 00:28:35.119 to answer that. I did want to say that when Jenebah 00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:37.519 said you know join on the front end or the back 00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:41.839 end just just be involved and I think our professional 00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:44.160 organizations are recognizing that they too need 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:47.519 to step up and provide parameters and policy 00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:52.319 and changes to curriculum so CSWE's tech committee 00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:56.369 just submitted a report suggesting that maybe 00:28:56.369 --> 00:28:59.170 technology is another competency in social work 00:28:59.170 --> 00:29:02.529 education. So we might all be having to do this 00:29:02.529 --> 00:29:05.529 because we have to, whether we want to or not. 00:29:05.569 --> 00:29:08.549 So I don't know. I'll leave that there. But some 00:29:08.549 --> 00:29:11.450 of the concerns, I think, and I'll do that same 00:29:11.450 --> 00:29:13.750 kind of approach as Jennifer was talking about 00:29:13.750 --> 00:29:16.990 where we do integrative social work is our curriculum 00:29:16.990 --> 00:29:20.529 at USC. And so we look at the impact of something 00:29:20.529 --> 00:29:22.970 at the individual, the group and organizational 00:29:22.970 --> 00:29:25.869 level. And we practice social work fluidly throughout 00:29:25.869 --> 00:29:29.650 all those spaces. So in terms of individuals, 00:29:29.890 --> 00:29:33.109 I think a lot of people think about the concerns, 00:29:33.329 --> 00:29:35.809 which some were mentioned earlier about the digital 00:29:35.809 --> 00:29:39.250 divide, access to technology, being left behind. 00:29:39.450 --> 00:29:41.910 I think there's a lot of public concern right 00:29:41.910 --> 00:29:44.950 now about AI and the environment, the environmental 00:29:44.950 --> 00:29:47.470 impact, the data centers being in communities, 00:29:47.670 --> 00:29:50.089 in low income communities, the communities not 00:29:50.089 --> 00:29:52.890 having a say. And I'll go back to one of our 00:29:52.890 --> 00:29:56.819 pioneers. Jonathan Singer, we were all in a training 00:29:56.819 --> 00:29:59.660 the earlier this week and like we're not gonna 00:29:59.660 --> 00:30:02.480 make AI go away as social workers. We're not, 00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:05.319 that's impossible, but we can still be involved 00:30:05.319 --> 00:30:08.019 and think about it in a way that can support 00:30:08.019 --> 00:30:10.480 the communities that are being impacted. So like, 00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:13.740 what if we could all advocate that? Whoever has 00:30:13.740 --> 00:30:16.960 a data center that that builder has to give 10 00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:19.460 % back to the community or they have to build 00:30:19.460 --> 00:30:22.240 a park or they have, you know, whatever the community 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:25.960 wants to offset the impact. So there is a space 00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:28.779 for social workers. It's this unique approach. 00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:31.160 And those are just some of the concerns. I think 00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:33.599 the other one is, has to do with social media. 00:30:33.779 --> 00:30:36.039 There's a social media addiction trial happening 00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:39.660 right now. And I'm a parent to my... Girls are 00:30:39.660 --> 00:30:42.019 approaching middle school, so it's out there. 00:30:42.099 --> 00:30:44.279 It's a conversation, and I think parents are 00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:47.559 concerned and social workers that work with teens. 00:30:47.740 --> 00:30:50.519 It has to be a part of your approach in terms 00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:54.740 of that biopsychosocial technological. This is 00:30:54.740 --> 00:30:57.640 all such wonderful and valuable information. 00:30:57.819 --> 00:31:00.640 I wish we had more time, but so can you please 00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:03.299 tell our listeners, you know, what's next for 00:31:03.299 --> 00:31:05.099 the two of you? You know, how can people get 00:31:05.099 --> 00:31:08.589 involved? Jen? Well, Jennifer talked about launching 00:31:08.589 --> 00:31:11.710 our social work course, the Tech for Global Good 00:31:11.710 --> 00:31:14.890 and our Bachelors of Social Work program at USC 00:31:14.890 --> 00:31:18.730 mentioned the event on March 26. That's a virtual 00:31:18.730 --> 00:31:21.250 panel where we're bringing different disciplines 00:31:21.250 --> 00:31:24.630 together. I also think in terms of getting involved, 00:31:24.670 --> 00:31:28.789 a lot of this is is mindset. As a social worker, 00:31:29.049 --> 00:31:33.549 the goal is to stay curious, just like we interrogate 00:31:33.549 --> 00:31:36.230 clinical interventions for goodness of fit. do 00:31:36.230 --> 00:31:38.390 the same thing for technology or whatever tech 00:31:38.390 --> 00:31:41.329 you're using, it might not fit. It might not 00:31:41.329 --> 00:31:45.089 be a good match. But and the other thing is getting 00:31:45.089 --> 00:31:48.680 involved, I think. also includes consultation. 00:31:49.180 --> 00:31:51.779 So as clinicians, you consult about something 00:31:51.779 --> 00:31:55.039 with your peer, with your boss, when you have 00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:57.720 a concern and you have a dialogue and an openness 00:31:57.720 --> 00:32:01.160 to hear another person's perspective. And it's 00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:03.319 hard to have a dialogue when a person comes to 00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:05.440 the table with an unwillingness to explore the 00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:09.940 possibilities. So I think I would just ask social 00:32:09.940 --> 00:32:12.880 workers to continue doing what they do in terms 00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:15.680 of consultation and things like that, but just 00:32:15.869 --> 00:32:18.750 bring that extra layer, that curious mindset. 00:32:19.130 --> 00:32:21.589 All right, love that. Jenabah, any final thoughts 00:32:21.589 --> 00:32:24.789 about what's next? I think Jen hit it on the 00:32:24.789 --> 00:32:28.549 nail is being curious, continuing to be curious, 00:32:28.869 --> 00:32:33.390 to be in conversation. This is as much part of 00:32:33.390 --> 00:32:35.930 our conversation as social workers around the 00:32:35.930 --> 00:32:39.329 areas and issues that we cover in classes and 00:32:39.329 --> 00:32:42.210 whatever space we're in. It's a part of the work 00:32:42.210 --> 00:32:46.369 that we do and it's all around us. I think that 00:32:46.369 --> 00:32:48.569 it's important for us to just continue to engage 00:32:48.569 --> 00:32:51.369 in conversation no matter where you are in your 00:32:51.369 --> 00:32:54.210 own tech sort of identity, no matter where you 00:32:54.210 --> 00:32:57.349 are in the spectrum. And so I started with just 00:32:57.349 --> 00:33:00.170 picking up a book. What is artificial intelligence? 00:33:00.369 --> 00:33:02.670 That's where I started, just to understand what 00:33:02.670 --> 00:33:05.230 it means. So that's what I encourage the audience 00:33:05.230 --> 00:33:08.940 to do. Love that. Such a wonderful dialogue today. 00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:12.400 I'd like to thank you, Jen and Jennifer, for 00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:15.200 joining us for a great discussion. To learn more 00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:18.039 about technology and social good, please visit 00:33:18.039 --> 00:33:22.259 our website at dworakpeck.usc.edu. And if you 00:33:22.259 --> 00:33:24.700 would like to network with our guests regarding 00:33:24.700 --> 00:33:27.599 their work or want to support our transformative 00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:31.779 research and programs, please email us at 00:33:31.779 --> 00:33:33.740 listenuppeople@usc.edu.