WEBVTT 00:00:13.819 --> 00:00:17.320 Hello and welcome to Listen.Up.People., a podcast 00:00:17.320 --> 00:00:20.399 of the USC Suzanne Dworak-Peck School of Social 00:00:20.399 --> 00:00:23.320 Work. I'm Dr. Holly Priebe Sotelo, associate 00:00:23.320 --> 00:00:26.300 teaching professor of practicum education. In 00:00:26.300 --> 00:00:29.219 this episode, we are talking about neurodiversity, 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:32.159 and my guests today bring a rich perspective 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:35.520 on the topic from a variety of angles. First, 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:38.539 my colleague, Dr. Christina Paddock, associate 00:00:38.539 --> 00:00:41.060 professor of social work, practicum education 00:00:41.060 --> 00:00:44.520 here at USC Social Work., co -lead for 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:47.920 the USC Neurodiverse Student Affinity Group, 00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:52.140 and she also brings lived experience as the mother 00:00:52.140 --> 00:00:56.100 of a child who is neurodiverse. Also, we're pleased 00:00:56.100 --> 00:01:01.420 to have Dr. Mona Kay, a USC PhD alumna, and she 00:01:01.420 --> 00:01:05.519 is also the host of the Neurodiverse Love podcast 00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:09.019 and specializes in helping people navigate the 00:01:09.019 --> 00:01:11.500 relationship challenges that often arise when 00:01:11.500 --> 00:01:14.680 at least one partner is neurodivergent. I'm pleased 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:17.280 to welcome you both here today to discuss this 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:19.400 important topic. Great to have you both here. 00:01:19.579 --> 00:01:22.700 Thank you. Thank you, Holly. You're welcome. 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:25.500 So continuing with our tradition, I'd like to 00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:28.140 start off by asking a more personal question 00:01:28.140 --> 00:01:31.260 about how each of you became interested in the 00:01:31.260 --> 00:01:34.040 focus of your work. So starting with you, Tina, 00:01:34.299 --> 00:01:37.260 what drew you to working with neurodivergence? 00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:40.280 Yes, it's so good to be here today, Holly, and 00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:43.359 think that's a great question to start with today. 00:01:43.700 --> 00:01:47.319 I have a personal reason as well as a more professional 00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:50.760 reason. When I started, when I was an undergrad 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:55.219 many years ago, back in the late 80s, early 90s, 00:01:55.260 --> 00:01:58.299 I'm dating myself, I actually took a class on 00:01:58.299 --> 00:02:00.859 behavioral therapy or behavioral psychology and 00:02:00.859 --> 00:02:03.920 the professor of that class was the director 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:06.780 of the Autism Center in Claremont. So she asked 00:02:06.780 --> 00:02:09.400 me to be part of that. So I learned, I knew nothing 00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:11.719 about working with children on the autism spectrum, 00:02:11.719 --> 00:02:15.639 but I started there and we did behavioral techniques 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:19.340 to help children. Again, autism, and we're going 00:02:19.340 --> 00:02:20.960 to talk about this probably a little bit more, 00:02:20.979 --> 00:02:24.159 follows under the umbrella term of like neurodiversity 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:27.139 and neurodivergence. So that's what I'm talking 00:02:27.139 --> 00:02:29.639 about it today, but I started working with these 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:32.419 kids. And back then we used a lot of behavioral 00:02:32.419 --> 00:02:35.280 techniques to try to get them to ask questions. 00:02:35.150 --> 00:02:39.009 questions or help with conversations, social 00:02:39.009 --> 00:02:42.069 skills, as well as work with them if they were 00:02:42.069 --> 00:02:44.770 doing a lot of what we call self -stimming or 00:02:44.770 --> 00:02:48.169 self -stimulation, which maybe you think about 00:02:48.169 --> 00:02:51.349 when you think of kind of old ideas of those 00:02:51.349 --> 00:02:54.090 on the autism spectrum or those with autism, 00:02:54.509 --> 00:02:57.530 you know, stimming, waving their hands or being 00:02:57.530 --> 00:02:59.310 focused on things that are spinning. That's kind 00:02:59.310 --> 00:03:02.900 of an old, I think very outdated. idea about 00:03:02.900 --> 00:03:06.180 what autism is. So we worked on, you know, with 00:03:06.180 --> 00:03:09.199 them decreasing that behavior. But nowadays, 00:03:09.379 --> 00:03:12.159 which I'm so excited about with this, when we 00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:14.400 work with those on the autism spectrum, the techniques 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:17.840 are much more affirming, less deficit based, 00:03:18.099 --> 00:03:21.430 more strength based. We sit more on a spectrum. 00:03:22.289 --> 00:03:25.090 So I started there many, many years ago. And 00:03:25.090 --> 00:03:27.550 again, now the field has really changed. And 00:03:27.550 --> 00:03:30.430 on a personal level, I have a daughter who is 00:03:30.430 --> 00:03:35.330 neurodiverse. She was diagnosed very, when she 00:03:35.330 --> 00:03:38.810 was in first grade with dyslexia. As you know, 00:03:38.930 --> 00:03:41.889 many people in, you know, in our community, I'm 00:03:41.889 --> 00:03:46.550 thinking Governor Gavin Newsom is dyslexic, have, 00:03:46.550 --> 00:03:49.009 you know, issues with processing and with... 00:03:48.909 --> 00:03:52.090 So I became very involved with that because as 00:03:52.090 --> 00:03:55.409 many parents will know, it's very hard sometimes 00:03:55.409 --> 00:03:58.389 in the school district with services and many 00:03:58.389 --> 00:04:01.129 times we have to get outside services if we can't 00:04:01.129 --> 00:04:02.590 get all the services through the school district. 00:04:02.610 --> 00:04:04.889 So I really became an advocate for my daughter, 00:04:04.969 --> 00:04:08.770 got her to work with a developmental optometrist 00:04:08.770 --> 00:04:11.610 and also started a affinity group there for parents 00:04:11.610 --> 00:04:13.110 so we all could support each other, parents and 00:04:13.110 --> 00:04:15.789 other caregivers. Just in a nutshell, that's 00:04:15.789 --> 00:04:18.310 some of my work, and I've just been involved 00:04:18.310 --> 00:04:20.490 in my career throughout with neurodiversity, 00:04:20.689 --> 00:04:22.329 also working with those on the autism spectrum. 00:04:22.639 --> 00:04:25.839 Thank you, Tina. Excellent. I appreciate you. 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:28.860 Same question for you, Mona. When and how did 00:04:28.860 --> 00:04:31.500 neurodivergence become your focus? Yeah, well, 00:04:31.500 --> 00:04:34.540 it's very personal for me. I was married for 00:04:34.540 --> 00:04:38.920 30 years, and a friend of mine was talking to 00:04:38.920 --> 00:04:41.540 me about a guy she was dating. She thought he 00:04:41.540 --> 00:04:44.019 was neurologically different. And at the time, 00:04:44.019 --> 00:04:47.279 I was separated from my husband. This was 2017. 00:04:47.699 --> 00:04:49.879 And the more she talked about him, the more I 00:04:49.879 --> 00:04:53.050 realized, oh, that's my husband too. And then 00:04:53.050 --> 00:04:58.009 I realized that he was autistic. And we had had 00:04:58.009 --> 00:05:01.170 lots of challenges with communication and emotional 00:05:01.170 --> 00:05:04.029 reciprocity and decision -making, which I'm sure 00:05:04.029 --> 00:05:06.790 we'll talk about a little bit more. And when 00:05:06.790 --> 00:05:11.050 I discovered autism in adults, I was like, oh 00:05:11.050 --> 00:05:13.470 my gosh, I never learned about this at all in 00:05:13.470 --> 00:05:17.009 school. And Holly, you're very lucky. I mean, 00:05:17.209 --> 00:05:19.290 Tina, you're very lucky that you learned about 00:05:19.290 --> 00:05:23.199 it. I don't remember maybe minute or two on kids 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:27.459 who were autistic. um, in a behavior class or 00:05:27.459 --> 00:05:29.879 something like that. So when I discovered that 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:32.040 we were in a neurodiverse marriage, I asked my 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:35.899 ex to go get assessed and he went and the psychologist 00:05:35.899 --> 00:05:39.079 who assessed him said, yes, you're probably on 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:42.560 the spectrum, but so what? And that was the beginning 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:45.519 of the end of our marriage because he said, this 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:48.000 is the way I am. I'm not working on a marriage 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:51.279 anymore. I'm not doing anything else. So we divorced 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:54.879 in 2018. So for me as a social worker, I have 00:05:54.879 --> 00:05:57.079 a bachelor's, a master's, and a PhD in social 00:05:57.079 --> 00:05:59.839 work, so there's no part of me that isn't a social 00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:03.040 worker. I did my healing for about two years, 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:06.079 and I said, I need to do something in this world 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:10.560 to make this known to more people. And so I started 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:13.540 a podcast, Neurodiverse Love, in the middle of 00:06:13.540 --> 00:06:16.860 a pandemic, right, in 2020, and I've been doing 00:06:16.860 --> 00:06:22.439 it for now five and a half years. I publish one 00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:24.899 weekly, and I've interviewed people from all 00:06:24.899 --> 00:06:29.180 over the world and authors and researchers and 00:06:29.180 --> 00:06:32.230 academicians. everybody that I could find that 00:06:32.230 --> 00:06:35.490 would come on the podcast. And what I found is 00:06:35.490 --> 00:06:39.250 there's so many folks that are struggling in 00:06:39.250 --> 00:06:42.769 their romantic relationships and they don't understand 00:06:42.769 --> 00:06:47.470 why. And then they find out about autism or they 00:06:47.470 --> 00:06:50.430 find out about neurodivergence. Things begin 00:06:50.430 --> 00:06:53.129 to make sense. And then they get to decide if 00:06:53.129 --> 00:06:56.410 they want to go for help through a coach or a 00:06:56.410 --> 00:06:59.389 therapist who understands neurodivergence. or 00:06:59.389 --> 00:07:01.870 if they're no longer compatible and want to end 00:07:01.870 --> 00:07:04.790 their marriage or relationship. So this is a 00:07:04.790 --> 00:07:08.990 very, very, very personal thing for me. And I 00:07:08.990 --> 00:07:12.589 have been doing this since 2020 and I absolutely 00:07:12.589 --> 00:07:16.269 love it. Yeah. Thank you, Mona. Thank you, Tina. 00:07:16.750 --> 00:07:19.930 Thank you for your vulnerability for, you know, 00:07:19.930 --> 00:07:23.050 bringing your authenticity into this discussion 00:07:23.050 --> 00:07:27.449 because for so many people there is such a stigma, 00:07:27.550 --> 00:07:31.689 sometimes a that people might feel a little different 00:07:31.689 --> 00:07:34.829 and they're not quite sure how to, what to call 00:07:34.829 --> 00:07:38.370 that, what is that? And so I really appreciate 00:07:38.370 --> 00:07:42.230 the genuine dialogue. So Tina, if you could please 00:07:42.230 --> 00:07:45.410 help us learn a little bit more about some of 00:07:45.410 --> 00:07:48.689 the different ideas when we hear the word neurodivergent, 00:07:48.889 --> 00:07:51.769 what do we mean by that word and why it's important 00:07:51.769 --> 00:07:53.970 to have a common understanding? And Mona, you 00:07:53.970 --> 00:07:56.529 might also want to answer this question too, 00:07:56.529 --> 00:07:58.779 but we'll start with Tina. And you know, Mona 00:07:58.779 --> 00:08:01.439 brings up such a good point too. You know, I 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:04.439 never learned in undergrad until I had the behavioral 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:09.839 class or even in my education about autism or 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:13.139 about neurodivergence. I think just recently 00:08:13.139 --> 00:08:15.399 with my daughter and then some of the work we've 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:18.019 been doing at the school, I've learned more about 00:08:18.019 --> 00:08:19.800 neurodivergence. And I've also been involved 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:24.160 in a study with our USC Autism Center and some 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:27.120 other webinars and presentations I've done with 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:30.360 a team of other colleagues. So it's been something 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:32.919 where I've learned a lot too, because it hasn't 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:35.620 been part of just my general learning as a social 00:08:35.620 --> 00:08:37.899 worker. And then there's a lot of kind of myths 00:08:37.899 --> 00:08:39.980 and misunderstandings about what it means. But 00:08:39.980 --> 00:08:44.000 in terms of neuro, a neurodivergence or neurodiversity. 00:08:44.460 --> 00:08:46.700 I mean, I see it as kind of like an umbrella 00:08:46.700 --> 00:08:51.080 term. I almost imagine an umbrella. Underneath 00:08:51.080 --> 00:08:54.679 the umbrella are, you know, different, what we 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:57.580 could call in social work diagnoses or different 00:08:57.580 --> 00:09:01.460 identities. For example, like autism, learning 00:09:01.460 --> 00:09:06.240 issues, like dyslexia, ADHD. kind of describes 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:09.059 the idea that people experience the world in 00:09:09.059 --> 00:09:11.960 different ways, right? How we learn, we see that 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:15.960 in the classroom, also to how we take in stimuli, 00:09:16.220 --> 00:09:19.240 how we process things. Again, for my daughter, 00:09:19.700 --> 00:09:23.879 you know, she's wonderfully great, very artistic, 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:27.960 very good visually, in many ways, auditory as 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:31.259 well, but just looking at that page with words 00:09:31.259 --> 00:09:34.220 or numbers. it really for for her it was very 00:09:34.220 --> 00:09:36.580 difficult for her to track nothing to do with 00:09:36.580 --> 00:09:39.360 intelligence that's the biggest myth and another 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:42.240 myth too is those on the autism spectrum those 00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:45.559 on who are neurodiverse can be wonderful social 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:48.879 workers that's another thing we really professionals 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:51.100 need to remember too i think we'll talk a little 00:09:51.100 --> 00:09:52.720 bit more about that but they can also be wonderful 00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:56.200 social workers but that that's how i view neurodiversity 00:09:56.200 --> 00:09:58.700 or neurodivergence thank you tina mona would 00:09:58.700 --> 00:10:02.899 you care to add yeah and and i think it's neurologically 00:10:02.899 --> 00:10:05.559 different, being neurologically different. And 00:10:05.559 --> 00:10:08.639 we can add Tourette's to that. We can add brain 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:13.519 injuries to that. And so folks that are neurologically 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:17.220 different are neurodivergent. And I think there 00:10:17.220 --> 00:10:21.870 has been so much stigma attached to being neurologically 00:10:21.870 --> 00:10:25.309 different, and now we have more shows that highlight 00:10:25.309 --> 00:10:28.710 autistic individuals, not just Love on the Spectrum, 00:10:29.250 --> 00:10:31.529 but there's The Good Doctor and there's a few 00:10:31.529 --> 00:10:34.129 others that have come out recently, Atypical, 00:10:34.830 --> 00:10:38.470 and so we see different. types of people who 00:10:38.470 --> 00:10:41.570 are doing different types of work. And I think 00:10:41.570 --> 00:10:44.250 that if we focus on the strengths, which is really, 00:10:44.250 --> 00:10:47.149 really important in social work, and each person 00:10:47.149 --> 00:10:49.929 has strengths, but neurodivergent folks, their 00:10:49.929 --> 00:10:52.289 strengths may not have been recognized because 00:10:52.289 --> 00:10:55.690 in school or at work, in relationships, people 00:10:55.690 --> 00:10:58.990 may have focused on what was different about 00:10:58.990 --> 00:11:03.250 them. And so they've struggled because they felt 00:11:03.250 --> 00:11:07.399 oftentimes broken or wrong. and they're not and 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:12.759 I identify as ADHD and so I wondered why I have 00:11:12.759 --> 00:11:16.299 this seven -page resume and every two to three 00:11:16.299 --> 00:11:19.039 years I was getting a new job or had to have 00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:21.360 you know multiple jobs at the same time because 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:23.840 I needed the dopamine hit and now I understand 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:31.000 myself at 62. I really appreciate clarifying 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:34.379 this for for our listeners because again there 00:11:34.379 --> 00:11:37.710 are some folks still out there that are just 00:11:37.710 --> 00:11:41.929 not quite sure how to articulate it and beautifully 00:11:41.929 --> 00:11:46.929 done. Thank you so much. You have this focus 00:11:46.929 --> 00:11:49.730 where you talked a little bit or you have where 00:11:49.730 --> 00:11:52.970 you call or refer to the lost generation of folks 00:11:52.970 --> 00:11:57.429 30 years or older who often recently discovered 00:11:57.429 --> 00:12:00.029 that they are neurodivergent. Can you share something 00:12:00.029 --> 00:12:02.750 more about this population, some of the common 00:12:02.750 --> 00:12:06.580 challenges they may be experiencing? Yes, absolutely 00:12:06.580 --> 00:12:10.940 and you know, we are fortunate now that we have 00:12:10.940 --> 00:12:15.620 YouTube and we have social media So even if you're 00:12:15.620 --> 00:12:18.139 part of the last generation you can find yourself 00:12:18.139 --> 00:12:21.320 somewhere on social media so the last generation 00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:25.700 are adults who were never evaluated or assessed 00:12:25.700 --> 00:12:29.700 in school because how they presented was just 00:12:29.700 --> 00:12:33.779 so different that what Tina talked about as the 00:12:33.779 --> 00:12:39.590 typical person who was autistic ADHD or now you 00:12:39.590 --> 00:12:43.710 can be diagnosed with both. autism and ADHD until 00:12:43.710 --> 00:12:47.710 2013 you could only be diagnosed with one which 00:12:47.710 --> 00:12:51.309 is just amazing. So these are the kids that may 00:12:51.309 --> 00:12:54.250 have been and also if you're gifted you're neurodivergent 00:12:54.250 --> 00:12:56.929 so these are kids that might have been in gifted 00:12:56.929 --> 00:12:59.850 class that might have been quirky that might 00:12:59.850 --> 00:13:03.509 have been amazing musicians artists poets they 00:13:03.509 --> 00:13:06.909 may have had trouble socializing but they found 00:13:06.909 --> 00:13:09.789 their quirky group their nerdy group you know 00:13:09.789 --> 00:13:12.549 that played the games, I don't even know them, 00:13:12.750 --> 00:13:15.409 Dungeons and Dragons or whatever, right? So... 00:13:15.450 --> 00:13:19.370 but they were different than maybe the majority 00:13:19.370 --> 00:13:23.090 of the kids, so they never got assessed or evaluated. 00:13:23.289 --> 00:13:25.909 Then they get into an intimate relationship, 00:13:26.070 --> 00:13:31.350 a romantic relationship, where they feel overwhelmed 00:13:31.350 --> 00:13:36.070 and they wonder why. And the reason is that now 00:13:36.070 --> 00:13:39.929 you're with one person who you have to socialize 00:13:39.929 --> 00:13:43.570 with, who you have some physical intimacy with, 00:13:43.570 --> 00:13:46.389 you have to do finances with, that's executive 00:13:46.389 --> 00:13:50.009 function issues, you're going to go on vacation 00:13:50.009 --> 00:13:53.009 with them, and there's going to be lots of changes 00:13:53.009 --> 00:13:55.850 in your environment. And a lot of autistic people 00:13:55.850 --> 00:13:59.429 thrive on routine and rituals. And so for the 00:13:59.429 --> 00:14:02.289 first time in your life, you're like, oh, my 00:14:02.289 --> 00:14:04.870 gosh, I'm not able to function the way I could 00:14:04.870 --> 00:14:08.429 maybe at school, at work, where there was routine, 00:14:08.549 --> 00:14:12.070 where I knew what my role was. And I love this 00:14:12.070 --> 00:14:16.059 person. but what the heck is going on? And then 00:14:16.059 --> 00:14:18.940 you find something on social media and you realize 00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:21.440 that you're part of the lost generation and I 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:24.440 can't tell you how many couples I've met who 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:27.639 are on the verge of divorce and then they find 00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:30.299 out that one or both of them is neurodivergent 00:14:30.299 --> 00:14:34.639 and they they work with me or somebody else and 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:39.690 I can help them translate what is going on and 00:14:39.690 --> 00:14:43.169 how it is related to their neurological differences. 00:14:43.850 --> 00:14:45.870 And it's like, you know, a hundred different 00:14:45.870 --> 00:14:49.379 light bulbs going off. It changes their lives. 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:52.480 And so what I would say to folks out there, if 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:55.919 any of this sounds like what you're experiencing 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:58.379 in your relationship, or you see somebody in 00:14:58.379 --> 00:15:01.559 your family experiencing this, or a friend, you 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:03.840 know, check out the Neurodiverse Love Podcast. 00:15:04.340 --> 00:15:09.000 Do some Googling on the internet about neurodiverse 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:11.460 relationships of the lost generation. Excellent. 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:14.059 Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. Lightbulbs are 00:15:14.059 --> 00:15:16.460 going off in my head too. I was like, oh my gosh, 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:19.820 maybe this is Y, X, Y, and Z. I really appreciate 00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:21.980 that. Thank you, Mona. And I'm really excited. 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:24.080 I'm going to listen to your podcast as well, 00:15:24.259 --> 00:15:26.919 for sure. Awesome. Yeah, I love that. And Tina, 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:30.559 you know, you co -lead as a faculty member, you 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:34.799 co -lead the USC Neurodivergent Student Affinity 00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:37.700 Group. As you mentioned, you started your parent 00:15:37.700 --> 00:15:40.179 affinity group at your daughter's school. Can 00:15:40.179 --> 00:15:42.259 you talk about why these groups are important 00:15:42.259 --> 00:15:45.820 and what they offer? Yes, yes. And, you know, 00:15:45.860 --> 00:15:49.259 I think one thing with these groups that are 00:15:49.259 --> 00:15:51.940 so important for those who are neurodiverse. 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:54.679 you know, as well as your, you know, podcast 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:58.580 to Mona is that it makes you, I think for the 00:15:58.580 --> 00:16:01.259 students, it really makes them feel not alone, 00:16:01.340 --> 00:16:04.120 right? It normalizes the experience. There's 00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:06.919 just, again, I'm going back to autism, a lot 00:16:06.919 --> 00:16:09.860 of myths out there. It, you know, provides education 00:16:09.860 --> 00:16:13.240 to the whole myth is that those on the autism 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:17.100 spectrum do not want to have relationships. They'd 00:16:17.100 --> 00:16:20.850 rather be alone, right? That could be far from 00:16:20.850 --> 00:16:24.230 the case. In fact, with the study that myself 00:16:24.230 --> 00:16:27.029 and Dr. Deborah Waters -Roman, who I do the affinity 00:16:27.029 --> 00:16:32.210 group with, did, we found that students at USC 00:16:32.210 --> 00:16:35.169 who are on the autism spectrum actually want 00:16:35.169 --> 00:16:38.950 to feel quite isolated and want to have connections. 00:16:39.409 --> 00:16:42.730 In fact, we used to have a group called, I think 00:16:42.730 --> 00:16:45.330 it was Neurodiverse Trojans. It was like a Facebook 00:16:45.330 --> 00:16:48.429 group. It's not active anymore, but we used to 00:16:48.429 --> 00:16:51.240 have that. Going back to your question is that's 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:54.139 why we have this affinity group at USC for our 00:16:54.139 --> 00:16:58.320 MSW students as well as our DSW students, our 00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:01.279 doctoral students, and coming up our BSW students 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:03.620 will be welcomed too so that they can share. 00:17:03.929 --> 00:17:06.009 and they can share resources, they can share 00:17:06.009 --> 00:17:09.210 experiences. For example, things will come up 00:17:09.210 --> 00:17:11.549 about being in placement, being in internship. 00:17:12.329 --> 00:17:14.829 For students who get their master's in social 00:17:14.829 --> 00:17:17.829 work, they need to do a thousand hours out in 00:17:17.829 --> 00:17:20.710 the field doing social work. And so things will 00:17:20.710 --> 00:17:22.730 come up in terms of how I communicate with my 00:17:22.730 --> 00:17:25.589 supervisor about my learning style. I need my 00:17:25.589 --> 00:17:28.349 supervisor to understand I need things more concrete. 00:17:28.950 --> 00:17:31.549 Right. I need to be aware if there's going to 00:17:31.549 --> 00:17:33.930 be changes. I don't want changes just thrown 00:17:33.930 --> 00:17:36.470 on me, because changes and transitions, as Mona 00:17:36.470 --> 00:17:39.789 was saying, can be difficult. I want to share 00:17:39.789 --> 00:17:41.869 with my supervisor that I'm neurodiverse, that 00:17:41.869 --> 00:17:43.769 I'm on autism spectrum. I'm not sure how they're 00:17:43.769 --> 00:17:46.730 going to react. How do I share that? Do I share 00:17:46.730 --> 00:17:49.509 that? So a lot of those questions come up, and 00:17:49.509 --> 00:17:51.849 then others can provide support. And then Dr. 00:17:52.490 --> 00:17:55.430 Deborah and myself, we provide kind of that guidance, 00:17:55.589 --> 00:17:58.470 that facilitation too. So it's been just a wonderful 00:17:58.470 --> 00:18:00.809 group. The same thing with the parent group at 00:18:00.809 --> 00:18:04.009 my daughter's school. We share resources. We 00:18:04.009 --> 00:18:06.150 share, gosh, we need to get this testing and 00:18:06.150 --> 00:18:08.150 get this service. The testing is so expensive. 00:18:08.210 --> 00:18:10.609 What do I do? Or I need this additional service. 00:18:10.710 --> 00:18:13.029 Where can I go? Everything's so expensive. I 00:18:13.029 --> 00:18:16.680 don't know what to do. So we... Share that. It's 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:20.160 interesting now, more people are self -identifying, 00:18:20.299 --> 00:18:22.579 as Mona was saying, as being neurodiverse. In 00:18:22.579 --> 00:18:25.859 the past, it had been more through diagnosis, 00:18:26.259 --> 00:18:29.440 having to get these tests, right? Test for ADHD. 00:18:29.869 --> 00:18:33.509 tests for being on the autism spectrum. Now more 00:18:33.509 --> 00:18:35.549 people are self -identifying but as you know 00:18:35.549 --> 00:18:37.329 Holly since you've worked in the schools to get 00:18:37.329 --> 00:18:39.930 IEP services you have to get testing. I had to 00:18:39.930 --> 00:18:42.890 put a lot of my own money in it as a parent you 00:18:42.890 --> 00:18:44.710 know because sometimes the school doesn't always 00:18:44.710 --> 00:18:47.250 cover that. I also really quickly I worked at 00:18:47.250 --> 00:18:49.150 South Central Los Angeles Regional Center another 00:18:49.150 --> 00:18:52.309 reason why I'm interested and I know to get testing 00:18:52.309 --> 00:18:56.650 there it is quite a process and and we also just 00:18:56.650 --> 00:19:00.029 a reminder too as Mona was saying. um you can 00:19:00.029 --> 00:19:02.329 go to the regional center anytime during your 00:19:02.329 --> 00:19:05.029 life okay and this is for state of california 00:19:05.029 --> 00:19:08.250 we have these regional centers and ask for testing 00:19:08.250 --> 00:19:12.190 asked to be evaluated um for services for being 00:19:12.190 --> 00:19:14.230 on the autism spectrum that doesn't always mean 00:19:14.230 --> 00:19:17.250 you're gonna get the services but you can anytime 00:19:17.250 --> 00:19:20.650 throughout your life not just in childhood excellent 00:19:20.650 --> 00:19:23.890 gosh tina they're so lucky to have you gosh i 00:19:23.890 --> 00:19:27.230 yeah oh they're just wow thank you holly And 00:19:27.230 --> 00:19:29.230 you're also welcome to join us. One thing about 00:19:29.230 --> 00:19:31.890 these groups, it's not just for those that identify 00:19:31.890 --> 00:19:34.630 as neurodiverse, it's also for allies, right? 00:19:34.970 --> 00:19:37.430 Those that want to support others and want to 00:19:37.430 --> 00:19:40.369 learn. due to their own personal reasons or other 00:19:40.369 --> 00:19:42.730 reasons or being a professor, you know, you're 00:19:42.730 --> 00:19:44.710 you're welcome to join us. This is an open group. 00:19:44.829 --> 00:19:47.569 And I do want to just kind of highlight you mentioned, 00:19:47.769 --> 00:19:51.230 you know, I did work in schools and specifically 00:19:51.230 --> 00:19:54.109 around the topic of bullying. And I know that 00:19:54.109 --> 00:19:57.490 a lot of young people, young children who are 00:19:57.490 --> 00:20:00.910 on the spectrum have been victims of bullying. 00:20:01.329 --> 00:20:05.069 And that has been a real problem for schools 00:20:05.069 --> 00:20:08.160 like educators to understand what does that look 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:10.720 like what does that mean and then for parents 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:13.839 who are advocating for their their children on 00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:18.000 that topic of bullying and so we we did see that 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.980 a lot in schools and and earlier on like you 00:20:20.980 --> 00:20:23.920 mentioned you know we didn't know what that was 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:26.180 you know we just you know it was the student 00:20:26.180 --> 00:20:29.240 who kind of was odd couldn't make friends was 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:34.529 oh socially And so even that is another whole 00:20:34.529 --> 00:20:37.170 topic that maybe we could have a second show 00:20:37.170 --> 00:20:39.950 on how do we work with young people in schools? 00:20:40.150 --> 00:20:43.269 How can we support? uh you know those young people 00:20:43.269 --> 00:20:46.289 from not being bullied that's a whole other topic 00:20:46.289 --> 00:20:48.890 that i just wanted to put them yeah tina please 00:20:48.890 --> 00:20:50.109 really quickly i will make sure to get back to 00:20:50.109 --> 00:20:53.230 mona you know we did do my colleague and i deborah 00:20:53.230 --> 00:20:56.630 and i did a social skills group in a school to 00:20:56.630 --> 00:20:59.910 address those that are on the autism spectrum 00:20:59.910 --> 00:21:02.549 um who are neurodiverse with social skills and 00:21:02.549 --> 00:21:05.289 we paired paired them with a peer mentor that 00:21:05.289 --> 00:21:07.829 was not identified as being neurodiverse around 00:21:07.829 --> 00:21:09.769 the autism spectrum. So it really helped with 00:21:09.769 --> 00:21:12.369 that building that relationship and that understanding 00:21:12.369 --> 00:21:15.049 because you're right in the schools it's built 00:21:15.049 --> 00:21:18.049 for what we call typically developing kids. I'm 00:21:18.049 --> 00:21:19.910 just going to use that word and not for those 00:21:19.910 --> 00:21:22.809 that are neurodiverse. So it can be overstimulating 00:21:22.809 --> 00:21:28.940 for kids. It can be confusing for kids. The social 00:21:28.940 --> 00:21:32.140 situation can be confusing. So we need to remember 00:21:32.140 --> 00:21:34.920 that to make it inclusive for everybody. Yes, 00:21:34.940 --> 00:21:37.500 100 % because there's a lot going on in schools 00:21:37.500 --> 00:21:40.619 today. And so we need to prepare our students 00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:44.259 and the educators who are working with those 00:21:44.259 --> 00:21:47.779 young people. So again, so much is going on. 00:21:47.779 --> 00:21:51.019 I want to make sure that we have some time for 00:21:51.019 --> 00:21:54.299 talking a little bit about Mona's podcast, which 00:21:54.299 --> 00:21:57.509 obviously we started to talk about that. that 00:21:57.509 --> 00:22:00.569 she focuses on neurodiverse couples where one 00:22:00.569 --> 00:22:02.910 partner is neurodivergent and the other might 00:22:02.910 --> 00:22:05.529 be neuro -typical. Can you talk a little bit 00:22:05.529 --> 00:22:08.750 more about some of the most common challenges 00:22:08.750 --> 00:22:11.490 that these couples experience? I know you mentioned 00:22:11.490 --> 00:22:14.210 it a little bit more, but as well as some resources 00:22:14.210 --> 00:22:17.069 that might be available for them? Yes, absolutely. 00:22:17.190 --> 00:22:19.630 And I want to say something that a lot of people 00:22:19.630 --> 00:22:22.849 don't understand. If you have a neurodivergent 00:22:22.849 --> 00:22:27.930 child, specifically, an autistic, ADHD, or ADHD 00:22:27.930 --> 00:22:33.269 child, probably one of the parents is also autistic, 00:22:33.470 --> 00:22:37.970 ADHD, or ADHD. And this is a big issue that's 00:22:37.970 --> 00:22:41.309 coming up because what's happening is a parent 00:22:41.309 --> 00:22:43.970 or a grandparent is seeing their child's assessment 00:22:43.970 --> 00:22:46.660 or evaluation and they're like, I've done that 00:22:46.660 --> 00:22:50.000 all my life." So they're understanding that they 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:52.839 are neurodivergent too and many are going and 00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:54.960 getting assessed or evaluated so that they can 00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:58.059 have accommodations in the workplace or at school 00:22:58.059 --> 00:23:00.180 or somewhere else. So I just wanted to mention 00:23:00.180 --> 00:23:03.319 that. The podcast is called Neurodiverse Love 00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:07.279 and I started it because I really believed there 00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:10.180 wasn't enough out there for folks that were struggling 00:23:10.180 --> 00:23:14.460 like I was in my marriage. And so for me, the 00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:19.680 most important issues are whatever your patterns 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:23.740 are that are challenging you. and your partner. 00:23:24.059 --> 00:23:26.819 And for every couple, it's going to be different. 00:23:27.220 --> 00:23:30.299 But the ones that keep recurring over and over 00:23:30.299 --> 00:23:33.740 again, the more I meet either one or both partners 00:23:33.740 --> 00:23:37.119 or the couple together, communication. So one 00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:41.339 partner may be focused on very rational and logical 00:23:41.339 --> 00:23:43.859 communication. They want the facts, and then 00:23:43.859 --> 00:23:46.259 that's it. They don't want to process for long. 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:49.400 And as a social worker who's ADHD and hyperverbal, 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:52.569 I was always processing everything. And that's 00:23:52.569 --> 00:23:55.470 not what my ex -husband wanted. So communication 00:23:55.470 --> 00:23:58.609 for the non -autistic person can be very emotional 00:23:58.609 --> 00:24:01.809 and very process oriented and the two can clash. 00:24:02.250 --> 00:24:06.329 Another area is emotional reciprocity. One partner 00:24:06.329 --> 00:24:09.930 may be very emotional, the dog just died and 00:24:09.930 --> 00:24:13.470 they really need comfort hugging somebody who 00:24:13.470 --> 00:24:15.450 can process the emotions that they're having 00:24:15.450 --> 00:24:17.410 because this was a family member as far as they 00:24:17.410 --> 00:24:20.549 were concerned. And the other partner may say, 00:24:20.710 --> 00:24:23.920 well, we can go get a new dog next week. You 00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:26.220 know, I don't understand why this is a problem. 00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:29.519 And that becomes a conflict because one is very 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:32.319 logical and rational and the other is more emotional. 00:24:32.980 --> 00:24:36.880 Another area is socializing. The non -autistic 00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:39.599 partner may want to socialize with family and 00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:41.599 family events may be very important to them, 00:24:41.859 --> 00:24:44.680 going to weddings, going to holiday events, whatever. 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:49.170 And it may cause a lot of stress for the autistic 00:24:49.170 --> 00:24:51.829 or neurodivergent partner because that's taking 00:24:51.829 --> 00:24:54.849 them away from their routine. They're around 00:24:54.849 --> 00:24:57.650 a lot of stimuli, maybe a lot of people that 00:24:57.650 --> 00:25:01.029 they don't know. They may have to engage in small 00:25:01.029 --> 00:25:04.839 talk. can become a conflict if they don't understand 00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:07.380 each other's needs. And then another, I mean, 00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:09.160 there's so many different areas, but another 00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:11.799 area that keeps recurring is physical intimacy. 00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:15.200 And I have couples that one partner may say, 00:25:15.220 --> 00:25:17.500 I don't ever want to kiss you again. I don't 00:25:17.500 --> 00:25:20.539 like kissing. I don't like hugging. And I will 00:25:20.539 --> 00:25:23.259 not hold your hand. And the other partner feels 00:25:23.259 --> 00:25:25.799 rejected and doesn't understand what is going 00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:29.259 on. But when they look under the hood and they 00:25:29.259 --> 00:25:32.740 see what their sensory sensitivity or preferences 00:25:32.740 --> 00:25:37.160 are, maybe it's that the autistic or ADHD partner 00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:39.140 doesn't like kissing because they don't like 00:25:39.140 --> 00:25:42.220 French kissing, or they don't like kissing for 00:25:42.220 --> 00:25:45.460 more than 10 seconds, and their other partner 00:25:45.460 --> 00:25:48.779 wants to be kissing for a long time. And so there 00:25:48.779 --> 00:25:51.480 are folks out there who are neurodivergent and 00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:53.960 specialize in this and can help couples, because 00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:56.220 I can't tell you how many couples I work with. 00:25:56.619 --> 00:26:00.039 who are no longer engaging in any physical intimacy, 00:26:00.579 --> 00:26:03.480 find out they're a neurodiverse couple, and then 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:05.680 either come to me or somebody else for help and 00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:08.720 realize that it's these sensory sensitivities 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:12.640 that need to be addressed, haven't been. And 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:16.220 so they're causing literal physical discomfort 00:26:16.220 --> 00:26:19.900 oftentimes for the neurodivergent partner. So 00:26:19.900 --> 00:26:21.779 there's so many different things, but those are 00:26:21.779 --> 00:26:24.259 the patterns that I see over and over again. 00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:26.420 And somebody hearing this might... recognize 00:26:26.420 --> 00:26:29.339 themselves or their partner and say, I think 00:26:29.339 --> 00:26:31.500 we're a neurodiverse couple. They can come to 00:26:31.500 --> 00:26:34.039 my podcast, Neurodiverse Love, anywhere you listen 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:37.019 to podcasts, and then I've just released the 00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:41.079 Neurodiverse Love docuseries, and it's four episodes, 00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:43.900 and the first episode aired on Valentine's Day, 00:26:44.039 --> 00:26:46.660 and you can find the link on my website. So I'm 00:26:46.660 --> 00:26:48.460 really excited that there's more information, 00:26:48.619 --> 00:26:50.839 and oh, I wanted to share one other thing. I 00:26:50.839 --> 00:26:53.660 do support groups for the non -autistic partners. 00:26:53.799 --> 00:26:57.059 They're free. I've been doing them for five years, 00:26:57.059 --> 00:26:59.000 and you can find more information. on my website, 00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:01.920 but I also do couple support groups. And what's 00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:04.259 wonderful about the couple support groups, those 00:27:04.259 --> 00:27:08.339 are $50, but you have never probably met another 00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:12.599 neurodiverse couple and known it. So there's 00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:15.460 never more than eight couples. And so you're 00:27:15.460 --> 00:27:18.079 in a Zoom room with people you've never met. 00:27:18.269 --> 00:27:21.630 And as they're talking, they're sharing their 00:27:21.630 --> 00:27:23.769 stories. You're like, oh my gosh, I've never 00:27:23.769 --> 00:27:25.990 met this person. I've never met this couple. 00:27:26.130 --> 00:27:29.269 And they're literally telling our story. And 00:27:29.269 --> 00:27:31.490 you know how wonderful group work is, right? 00:27:31.589 --> 00:27:34.630 And this is like light bulbs going off for all 00:27:34.630 --> 00:27:37.710 these couples. Yeah. Amazing. Wow, Mona. I'm 00:27:37.710 --> 00:27:40.410 really excited. And this is such an incredible 00:27:40.410 --> 00:27:42.730 discussion. I wish we had more time, but we're 00:27:42.730 --> 00:27:45.329 going to have to start wrapping up. So therefore, 00:27:45.329 --> 00:27:48.759 I would really like to end on a question for 00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:51.460 both of you. We'll start with Tina. Is there 00:27:51.460 --> 00:27:54.660 anything else that you that you want our listeners 00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:57.460 to know about this topic that I haven't asked 00:27:57.460 --> 00:28:00.380 about or just kind of a point to bring it home 00:28:00.380 --> 00:28:02.980 for the listeners. We'll start with Tina and 00:28:02.980 --> 00:28:05.599 then Mona. It's been such a pleasure, Mona, being 00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:08.440 in this podcast with you. And then of course, 00:28:08.619 --> 00:28:11.779 Holly, the wonderful facilitator of the podcast. 00:28:11.980 --> 00:28:14.180 I think the most important thing and what I've 00:28:14.180 --> 00:28:19.180 seen in my teaching and also my interest in neurodiversity, 00:28:19.180 --> 00:28:22.740 my own personal experience is if you meet one 00:28:22.740 --> 00:28:24.940 person who's neurodiverse, you've met one person 00:28:24.940 --> 00:28:27.180 who's neurodiverse. I'm going to again talk to 00:28:27.180 --> 00:28:29.160 him about my dear friend. Deborah, who actually 00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:31.599 shared that statement with me. And you are right. 00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:34.759 I think we have to really be careful about kind 00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:38.420 of these images, these myths we have about people 00:28:38.420 --> 00:28:41.579 on the autism spectrum, people who are neurodiverse 00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:43.839 that we may get from at least for me, I got it 00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:48.230 from media. early on, back in the 80s and 90s, 00:28:48.230 --> 00:28:51.130 and when I didn't really understand, Rain Man, 00:28:51.190 --> 00:28:54.390 the movie, right? So, you know, those sorts of 00:28:54.390 --> 00:28:55.930 things. We had to be really careful and do our 00:28:55.930 --> 00:28:59.269 own, do our own work, do our own, you know, listen 00:28:59.269 --> 00:29:02.630 to Mono's podcast, be curious about it. I always 00:29:02.630 --> 00:29:05.769 remind my students to do that. I know we're talking 00:29:05.769 --> 00:29:08.630 about more of it in our classes. I have students 00:29:08.630 --> 00:29:10.930 that have accommodations that come to me and 00:29:10.930 --> 00:29:14.289 share about their neurodiversity and how it is 00:29:14.289 --> 00:29:17.069 for them. Okay. I think the biggest thing is 00:29:17.069 --> 00:29:19.670 how do I share that I am neurodiverse? You know, 00:29:19.789 --> 00:29:22.009 will they, would there be judgment? How do I 00:29:22.009 --> 00:29:24.470 explain that? So I that that's probably the one 00:29:24.470 --> 00:29:27.089 thing I really hope to take away from this is, 00:29:27.089 --> 00:29:30.710 is kind of to look at neurodiversity in a different 00:29:30.710 --> 00:29:32.710 way and to understand it more. Again, it's like 00:29:32.710 --> 00:29:36.109 that umbrella with the different identities and 00:29:36.109 --> 00:29:39.480 also you know, diagnoses as, you know, social 00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:42.339 worker. I'd say diagnoses too. Yeah, so thanks 00:29:42.339 --> 00:29:45.460 Holly. I appreciate that. Mona, any final thoughts 00:29:45.460 --> 00:29:48.200 for our listeners? Yeah, I'd like to thank both 00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:50.079 of you too, Tina and Holly. It's been a great 00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:52.960 discussion. I agree. I think one, I agree with 00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:54.700 what Tina said. I think one of the most important 00:29:54.700 --> 00:29:59.200 things is curiosity and patience. and a growth 00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:02.759 mindset because if you're in a neurodiverse relationship, 00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:05.960 you are literally in a brand new relationship 00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:08.259 than the one you started with. When you fell 00:30:08.259 --> 00:30:11.140 in love with your partner, you did not know who 00:30:11.140 --> 00:30:13.880 they really were and they did not know who they 00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:16.240 really were if they're neurodivergent and part 00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:20.180 of the lost generation. I think without the curiosity, 00:30:20.440 --> 00:30:22.480 without the patience, and without the growth 00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:25.059 mindset, I think it's going to be really hard 00:30:25.059 --> 00:30:27.099 to have a healthy relationship moving forward. 00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:29.539 forward because there's going to be a lot more 00:30:29.539 --> 00:30:31.960 judgment and anger and bitterness and all of 00:30:31.960 --> 00:30:34.559 that. And so I just recommend everybody come 00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:36.839 to my website, neurodiverselove .com because 00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:39.579 I have so many amazing resources. I have a list 00:30:39.579 --> 00:30:42.160 of, I can't even tell you how many books on neurodiverse 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:46.039 relationships. I have links to other podcasts 00:30:46.039 --> 00:30:48.940 and other YouTube channels that might be helpful 00:30:48.940 --> 00:30:52.079 and access to the Neurodiverse Love podcast in 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:54.960 the docuseries. So there are so many more resources 00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:59.099 out there than I had access to in 2017 when I 00:30:59.099 --> 00:31:03.519 found out. So it's been a great journey to share 00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:06.619 so much and to see more resources out there for 00:31:06.619 --> 00:31:08.559 neurodiverse couples. So thank you both. It's 00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:11.299 been really, really fun. Fantastic. Thank you 00:31:11.299 --> 00:31:14.170 so much. So many wonderful golden nuggets taken 00:31:14.170 --> 00:31:17.089 away from today's discussion. So thank you, Tina. 00:31:17.309 --> 00:31:19.589 Thank you, Mona, for joining us for a wonderful 00:31:19.589 --> 00:31:22.170 discussion. If you would like to learn more about 00:31:22.170 --> 00:31:28.799 the USC Social Work programs, please visit dworakpeck.usc.edu. 00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:31.819 Or if you would like to network with our guests 00:31:31.819 --> 00:31:35.000 regarding their work or want to support our transformative 00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:39.920 research and programs, please email us at listenuppeople@usc.edu. 00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:42.920 Thank you.