WEBVTT 00:00:13.780 --> 00:00:17.519 Hello and welcome to Listen Up People, a podcast 00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:20.760 of the USC Suzanne Dworak-Peck School of Social 00:00:20.760 --> 00:00:24.140 Work. I'm Dr. Holly Priebe Sotelo, Associate 00:00:24.140 --> 00:00:26.559 Teaching Professor of Practicum Education and 00:00:26.559 --> 00:00:29.300 your host for the second season of the podcast. 00:00:29.940 --> 00:00:32.359 Before I get started, I just really want to give 00:00:32.359 --> 00:00:35.079 a quick shout out to my predecessor, Dr. Eric 00:00:35.079 --> 00:00:38.200 Rice. He did such a wonderful job hosting our 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:41.240 first season and we're grateful for him for giving 00:00:41.240 --> 00:00:45.829 us such a solid start. I was a guest on one of 00:00:45.829 --> 00:00:48.149 the episodes on the topic of human trafficking, 00:00:48.570 --> 00:00:51.869 and I enjoyed it so much. And now I'm honored 00:00:51.869 --> 00:00:54.710 to be launching the first episode of the second 00:00:54.710 --> 00:00:58.609 season. So I want to say thank you, Eric, all 00:00:58.609 --> 00:01:01.369 the best to you for your new venture, and I will 00:01:01.369 --> 00:01:04.689 try to proudly carry this torch you have passed 00:01:04.689 --> 00:01:08.180 to me. So today we're going to explore the increasingly 00:01:08.180 --> 00:01:10.579 important role that school social workers play 00:01:10.579 --> 00:01:13.519 in fostering students' social and emotional well 00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:16.280 -being for productive learning in the classroom. 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:19.159 School social workers provide a valuable support 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:22.079 to students struggling with truancy or academic 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:25.620 performances due to a variety of factors that 00:01:25.620 --> 00:01:28.519 may include issues in their home life or exposure 00:01:28.519 --> 00:01:31.640 to traumatic events. And my background is also 00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:34.560 as a school social worker in K -12 public schools, 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:38.560 for 18 years. So this is a subject that's very 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:41.560 near and dear to my heart. My guests today have 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:44.620 experienced many different sides of school social 00:01:44.620 --> 00:01:47.920 work in different educational settings in training 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:51.280 and education of school social workers and on 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:54.700 the ground in classrooms. Dr. Kerry Doyle, associate 00:01:54.700 --> 00:01:57.879 teaching professor and my colleague at the USC 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:00.439 Susanne Dworak-Peck School of Social Work is 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:03.560 an expert in the area of educational needs of 00:02:03.560 --> 00:02:06.590 school social workers including trauma -informed 00:02:06.590 --> 00:02:12.150 training. And Dr. Maria Ruelas, a USC MSW alumna 00:02:12.150 --> 00:02:14.990 who serves as a district social worker for the 00:02:14.990 --> 00:02:17.849 Lawndale Elementary School District in Los Angeles 00:02:17.849 --> 00:02:21.930 and was named the 2025 School Social Worker of 00:02:21.930 --> 00:02:24.310 the Year by the Los Angeles County Office of 00:02:24.310 --> 00:02:26.969 Education. Congratulations to you, Maria. We 00:02:26.969 --> 00:02:29.810 are so proud of you. Okay, so it is great to 00:02:29.810 --> 00:02:32.860 see you both. It is my honor to I feel like I'm 00:02:32.860 --> 00:02:35.120 in a room with friends. So this is going to be 00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:38.219 a great conversation. So something Dr. Eric Rice 00:02:38.219 --> 00:02:41.300 started off with his discussions was to ask a 00:02:41.300 --> 00:02:43.639 more personal question, which I would really 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:46.379 like to continue with you both. It really helps 00:02:46.379 --> 00:02:49.520 us to understand what your interests were. How 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:53.139 did you come into this work? And so I'd like 00:02:53.139 --> 00:02:56.180 to start with you, Kerry, with how did you become 00:02:56.180 --> 00:02:59.560 involved in school social work or social work 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:01.969 in the educational settings? Great. Thanks, Holly. 00:03:02.870 --> 00:03:05.469 So I actually had a really circuitous route to 00:03:05.469 --> 00:03:07.750 social work in general. So my undergraduate degree 00:03:07.750 --> 00:03:10.509 was in political science with the intent to go 00:03:10.509 --> 00:03:13.349 to law school. But in my final year, I decided 00:03:13.349 --> 00:03:15.949 that being a lawyer really wasn't a right fit 00:03:15.949 --> 00:03:19.810 for me. So for a few years, I worked in the insurance 00:03:19.810 --> 00:03:22.810 industry. And weirdly enough, that actually was 00:03:22.810 --> 00:03:24.509 helpful because I learned the ins and outs of 00:03:24.509 --> 00:03:26.669 Medicaid and Medicare. So it actually helped 00:03:26.669 --> 00:03:29.509 me in the long run be a better social worker. 00:03:29.830 --> 00:03:32.110 But for the first few years, I was really lost. 00:03:32.150 --> 00:03:34.849 I didn't know what social work was. I didn't 00:03:34.849 --> 00:03:39.069 know what I wanted to do. And during that time, 00:03:39.090 --> 00:03:41.990 I would visit my sister who was a school social 00:03:41.990 --> 00:03:45.349 worker. And this was back in the late 1990s. 00:03:45.949 --> 00:03:48.830 I could visit her at school. And so I would go 00:03:48.830 --> 00:03:51.050 multiple days a week to have lunch with her. 00:03:51.050 --> 00:03:54.169 And I was able to see firsthand the amazing work 00:03:54.169 --> 00:03:57.569 that she was doing. And I fell in love with school 00:03:57.569 --> 00:04:01.189 social work. And my first internship, my first 00:04:01.189 --> 00:04:03.550 year in my MSW program was at the New York City 00:04:03.550 --> 00:04:05.849 schools. And I realized right then and there 00:04:05.849 --> 00:04:08.990 I wanted to be a school social worker. But I 00:04:08.990 --> 00:04:10.750 returned back to my home state. And I live in 00:04:10.750 --> 00:04:13.069 a small New England state. And at that time, 00:04:13.150 --> 00:04:15.819 there was limited school social work positions. 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:19.819 And there wasn't a lot of turnover. So I actually 00:04:19.819 --> 00:04:22.120 did not have my first school based job until 00:04:22.120 --> 00:04:26.079 12 years post MSW. However, during that 12 years, 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:28.560 I worked extensively with children, adolescents, 00:04:28.819 --> 00:04:31.720 families in school adjacent settings. So I became 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:34.579 familiar with many of the school districts. I 00:04:34.579 --> 00:04:38.480 really honed my mental health skills and interventions. 00:04:38.819 --> 00:04:42.970 So when my time came, I felt really not only 00:04:42.970 --> 00:04:45.389 excited, but prepared to be a high school social 00:04:45.389 --> 00:04:47.910 worker. So it was a circuitous route, but I got 00:04:47.910 --> 00:04:50.790 there. I love that. I did not know that about 00:04:50.790 --> 00:04:53.410 you, Carrie. Thank you so much for sharing. And 00:04:53.410 --> 00:04:56.750 Maria, I mentioned your recent social worker 00:04:56.750 --> 00:05:00.149 of the year award, but this is actually your 00:05:00.149 --> 00:05:03.949 second time receiving this honor. You first received 00:05:03.949 --> 00:05:07.870 it in 2018 from the California Association of 00:05:07.870 --> 00:05:11.529 Social Workers. When did you discover that school 00:05:11.529 --> 00:05:14.649 social work was for you. It was truly solidified 00:05:14.649 --> 00:05:19.290 that I wanted to go into schools when I entered 00:05:19.290 --> 00:05:23.949 my first year of internship at the USC School 00:05:23.949 --> 00:05:26.889 of Social Work and I really got a front row seat 00:05:26.889 --> 00:05:30.689 to what it was to work in systems. The systems 00:05:30.689 --> 00:05:35.029 perspective of social work really really encompassed 00:05:34.829 --> 00:05:37.990 what I was looking for in terms of mental health, 00:05:38.209 --> 00:05:41.230 being preventative, working with community and 00:05:41.230 --> 00:05:45.410 the family support. And I never thought school 00:05:45.410 --> 00:05:48.870 social workers could be in schools until I had 00:05:48.870 --> 00:05:52.610 my internship experience. And that's when I realized 00:05:52.610 --> 00:05:57.689 there is a space for us. There is important value 00:05:57.689 --> 00:06:01.829 in the work that we do because we do bring in 00:06:01.829 --> 00:06:05.470 that systems building. perspective. And so we 00:06:05.470 --> 00:06:09.189 look at issues not only within the four walls 00:06:09.189 --> 00:06:13.790 of a school, but outside the community, the school, 00:06:14.209 --> 00:06:16.990 the relationships that are within the school. 00:06:17.250 --> 00:06:21.490 So it's far more than individual counseling and 00:06:21.490 --> 00:06:24.170 facilitating groups. There is a space for us 00:06:24.170 --> 00:06:28.509 to also be in leadership roles and focus on things 00:06:28.509 --> 00:06:32.470 like program development and ensuring we have 00:06:32.470 --> 00:06:36.370 workforce pipelines and strengthening mental 00:06:36.370 --> 00:06:39.069 health supports across the entire district, not 00:06:39.069 --> 00:06:44.050 just one school. And so that's when I realized 00:06:44.050 --> 00:06:46.990 this was a space for me. Right on. Oh my god, 00:06:47.129 --> 00:06:49.550 Maria. I'm so proud of you because you're a legend 00:06:49.550 --> 00:06:54.000 in the schools. Just everywhere and so I'm just 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:57.079 so proud and and you really are did some groundbreaking 00:06:57.079 --> 00:07:00.660 work there doing macro bringing in other social 00:07:00.660 --> 00:07:03.180 workers which we will talk about more in just 00:07:03.180 --> 00:07:05.879 a moment. So thank you so much for sharing that. 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:09.360 So I'm going to go back to Kerry. So Kerry, 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:12.540 I'd really like to start this question out for 00:07:12.540 --> 00:07:15.399 you. I want our listeners to know that our school 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:17.819 is one of few schools in the United States that 00:07:17.819 --> 00:07:21.139 we offer a specialized curriculum and certification 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:24.920 in school and educational settings. Can you give 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:27.740 our listeners a general overview of what it means 00:07:27.740 --> 00:07:30.800 to specialize as a school social worker and what 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:33.300 the curriculum and certification is that our 00:07:33.300 --> 00:07:36.660 school offers? Absolutely, Holly. So when we're 00:07:36.660 --> 00:07:38.740 talking about specializing as a school social 00:07:38.740 --> 00:07:40.720 worker, what we're really talking about, in my 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:43.139 opinion, is about working at the intersection 00:07:43.139 --> 00:07:47.339 of mental health, education, families, and as 00:07:47.339 --> 00:07:50.540 Maria mentioned, systems. So school social workers 00:07:50.540 --> 00:07:53.220 are trained to not only support students at the 00:07:53.220 --> 00:07:56.360 individual level, but also through a broader 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:59.139 systems land. The school social work role is 00:07:59.139 --> 00:08:02.000 incredibly dynamic. It includes mental health 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:04.899 intervention, but it also includes crisis response, 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:08.639 attendance and engagement, special education 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:12.939 services, collaborating with teachers and administrators 00:08:12.939 --> 00:08:16.379 in order to address systemic barriers that might 00:08:16.379 --> 00:08:19.110 impact student learning. So it's a very dynamic 00:08:19.110 --> 00:08:23.069 role that requires multiple skills. So it's essential 00:08:23.069 --> 00:08:26.910 that school social workers go into the setting 00:08:26.910 --> 00:08:30.069 understanding that. In terms of preparation for 00:08:30.069 --> 00:08:34.149 this role at USC, our curriculum offers a school 00:08:34.149 --> 00:08:37.970 and education settings track, which offers specialized 00:08:37.970 --> 00:08:40.970 coursework. as well as a school -based practicum 00:08:40.970 --> 00:08:44.389 where students have the opportunity to integrate 00:08:44.389 --> 00:08:46.009 what they're learning in the classroom setting 00:08:46.009 --> 00:08:50.129 into actually a school -based internship, a real 00:08:50.129 --> 00:08:54.149 school environment. We also offer what's known 00:08:54.149 --> 00:08:57.799 as the PPSC credential. And so that's the pupil 00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:00.480 personnel services credential. And for those 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:03.340 of you who are not familiar with that, that is 00:09:03.340 --> 00:09:06.860 what the state of California requires for a social 00:09:06.860 --> 00:09:09.179 worker to work in public education settings. 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:11.879 And the wonderful thing is in our curriculum, 00:09:12.179 --> 00:09:16.620 USC embeds the PPSC requirements directly into 00:09:16.620 --> 00:09:20.139 the MSW program when students select that track 00:09:20.139 --> 00:09:24.460 and the PPSC option. So students can potentially 00:09:24.460 --> 00:09:27.340 graduate with not only their MSW, but their PPSC 00:09:27.340 --> 00:09:30.580 credential. But also we go a step further. So 00:09:30.580 --> 00:09:34.139 for graduates who are already working in skills 00:09:34.139 --> 00:09:37.179 that also want to continue to develop, we also 00:09:37.179 --> 00:09:40.220 offer a postgraduate certification in trauma 00:09:40.220 --> 00:09:42.299 -informed practices and educational settings, 00:09:42.620 --> 00:09:45.799 which is a wonderful continuing education opportunity 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:48.299 for those of you who are already working in schools. 00:09:49.500 --> 00:09:51.860 I think, Holly, what I really appreciate about 00:09:51.860 --> 00:09:55.440 our approach at USC is we're preparing school 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:58.940 social workers not only to engage on an individual 00:09:58.940 --> 00:10:03.620 level, but in complex systems through our specialization, 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:07.179 but also through our curriculum. So we offer 00:10:07.179 --> 00:10:09.980 integrative social work and integrative social 00:10:09.980 --> 00:10:12.889 work. covers all three levels of social work. 00:10:12.929 --> 00:10:15.669 So we're not micro social workers or macro social 00:10:15.669 --> 00:10:18.370 workers that are siloed. We are social workers 00:10:18.370 --> 00:10:22.070 and being a school social worker demands that 00:10:22.070 --> 00:10:25.450 we operate on all levels of practice, micro, 00:10:25.549 --> 00:10:28.889 mezzo and macro. 00:10:28.889 --> 00:10:31.250 I am so glad that you mentioned integrative social work and thank you so much 00:10:31.250 --> 00:10:35.029 because this is for those who are entering or 00:10:35.029 --> 00:10:38.110 wanting to learn more about it is that you're 00:10:38.110 --> 00:10:42.289 given an experience across a wide spectrum to 00:10:42.289 --> 00:10:44.889 working in this school setting. So love that 00:10:44.889 --> 00:10:48.289 you integrated that in that USC. I'm so proud 00:10:48.289 --> 00:10:51.950 that we're offering that for our society here. 00:10:52.590 --> 00:10:57.090 And Maria, do you want to add anything? I completely 00:10:57.090 --> 00:11:01.129 agree. First hand, I'm an alumni from the school 00:11:01.129 --> 00:11:05.210 and I can attest to that. Those are the experiences 00:11:05.210 --> 00:11:08.409 that brought me into school social work. I did 00:11:08.409 --> 00:11:10.549 not know I was going to go into school social 00:11:10.549 --> 00:11:14.350 work and because of the experiences and the integrative 00:11:14.350 --> 00:11:17.230 systems level thinking, that is what got me here. 00:11:17.429 --> 00:11:21.190 And now that I'm here, I'm a leader in the field 00:11:21.190 --> 00:11:24.450 and I'm really happy to learn that that's something 00:11:24.450 --> 00:11:27.850 that the school is actively working on is developing 00:11:27.850 --> 00:11:31.269 that for their students. Yes, yes, Maria. And 00:11:31.269 --> 00:11:34.110 you know, as a follow -up, I'd really like to 00:11:34.110 --> 00:11:38.750 hear some of the main issues that you, that students 00:11:38.750 --> 00:11:42.429 and teachers that are impacting schools in your 00:11:42.429 --> 00:11:45.750 area. And is there a shortage of school social 00:11:45.750 --> 00:11:49.289 workers? Every day that I walk into a school, 00:11:50.110 --> 00:11:54.409 I am reminded of the importance of school social 00:11:54.409 --> 00:11:57.879 workers. And because our school district has 00:11:57.879 --> 00:12:01.820 been very progressive and very supportive of 00:12:01.820 --> 00:12:04.200 school social workers, I'd like to say that in 00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:07.639 our school district, we don't have a shortage 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:11.039 of them. However, in going to conferences and 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:14.039 speaking to other colleagues, speaking to other 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:18.419 leaders in education, it is almost mind blowing 00:12:18.419 --> 00:12:20.980 to know that there's school social workers, that 00:12:20.980 --> 00:12:24.519 there's one at each school site here in Lawndale. 00:12:24.700 --> 00:12:28.179 versus in other school districts, when I was 00:12:28.179 --> 00:12:30.820 hired, there was one social worker, which was 00:12:30.820 --> 00:12:34.679 me, for an entire school district. And I remember 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:37.980 how difficult that was for me at the start. And 00:12:37.980 --> 00:12:40.679 so it is very difficult. There is a shortage. 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:45.100 The ratio to students is not what we want to 00:12:45.100 --> 00:12:50.539 see. And so I do see that there's gaps in our 00:12:50.539 --> 00:12:53.440 schools. And I believe that building that strong 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:58.080 partnership and different pipelines to get school 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:01.159 social workers into school is important. For 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:05.919 instance, having interns, graduate level interns 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:08.340 that are entering the workforce and training 00:13:08.340 --> 00:13:11.340 them so that they're able to experience what 00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:14.629 school social work is like. And then maybe at 00:13:14.629 --> 00:13:17.230 their school districts, they're able to be of 00:13:17.230 --> 00:13:19.669 service to their school communities. But yes, 00:13:19.669 --> 00:13:22.490 there is a shortage with school based mental 00:13:22.490 --> 00:13:25.169 health professionals. And I think it's it's an 00:13:25.169 --> 00:13:28.450 area that we definitely need to uncover and talk 00:13:28.450 --> 00:13:33.250 about more because leaders in educational settings 00:13:33.250 --> 00:13:36.950 need to know what school social workers are able 00:13:36.950 --> 00:13:41.269 to offer. And that is more than just one on one 00:13:41.269 --> 00:13:43.990 counseling or therapy. Right and you know Maria 00:13:43.990 --> 00:13:46.450 maybe if we can expand on that just a little 00:13:46.450 --> 00:13:48.909 bit more for our listeners who they don't really 00:13:48.909 --> 00:13:51.190 know what what is a social worker why are they 00:13:51.190 --> 00:13:54.049 in schools isn't it about reading and learning 00:13:54.049 --> 00:13:57.990 and why why a social worker and that that's a 00:13:57.990 --> 00:14:00.429 question I want all our listeners to know if 00:14:00.429 --> 00:14:02.429 you could just kind of give an example like a 00:14:02.429 --> 00:14:04.549 day -to -day what a social worker might be doing 00:14:04.549 --> 00:14:07.049 in a school. Yes that's a very good question 00:14:07.049 --> 00:14:09.950 I think that here in Lawndale it looks very different 00:14:09.950 --> 00:14:12.919 in that When our first Latina superintendent 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:16.600 started here, she's from Baldwin Park. She came 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:20.399 to Lawndale and she's like, Maria, what are the 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:23.580 social workers? What do you do? My response was, 00:14:23.820 --> 00:14:26.720 well, the social workers here in Lawndale are 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:30.679 like pseudo -administrators. In that, yes, they 00:14:30.679 --> 00:14:34.500 do provide one -on -one therapy to students whenever 00:14:34.500 --> 00:14:37.620 it's needed, but that's not their primary role. 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:41.409 They don't have a caseload per se. Our interns, 00:14:41.590 --> 00:14:45.350 because we have built capacity and partnerships 00:14:45.350 --> 00:14:48.490 with universities, our interns are the ones that 00:14:48.490 --> 00:14:51.350 obtain that training and that address the mental 00:14:51.350 --> 00:14:53.730 health needs of our students with the supervision 00:14:53.730 --> 00:14:57.059 of our school social workers. In addition to 00:14:57.059 --> 00:15:00.399 that, our mental health providers are also taking 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:04.419 in a lot of referrals and meeting with students. 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:07.179 Social workers are facilitating groups, they're 00:15:07.179 --> 00:15:10.600 facilitating parent workshops to engage the school 00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:13.820 community. In addition to crisis management, 00:15:14.500 --> 00:15:18.500 in addition to implementation of positive behavioral 00:15:18.500 --> 00:15:20.980 interventions and supports, that's short. or 00:15:20.980 --> 00:15:25.240 in short, PBIS. PBIS is a framework that is used 00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:28.500 in the state of California to create community 00:15:28.500 --> 00:15:31.840 environment in schools. And so that's implemented 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:34.840 with the help of our social work team. Attendance, 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:38.259 that's another issue in public education, especially 00:15:38.259 --> 00:15:42.279 post pandemic, in that a lot of students have 00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:47.259 developed mental health issues. And social workers, 00:15:47.259 --> 00:15:49.980 instead of just meeting with a student at school, 00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:52.980 they go outside of the school. They go to the 00:15:52.980 --> 00:15:55.840 parents' homes. They do home visits. And they 00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:58.659 ask, what's going on? How can we help? And because 00:15:58.659 --> 00:16:01.190 they have that mental health... background they're 00:16:01.190 --> 00:16:04.590 able to assess. Is it anxiety? Is it depression? 00:16:05.529 --> 00:16:07.929 Is it housing instability? Because once you get 00:16:07.929 --> 00:16:10.529 to the home, you realize, wow, I didn't know 00:16:10.529 --> 00:16:13.350 this child lived in a motor home. I didn't know 00:16:13.350 --> 00:16:15.870 this child, you know, lived across the street 00:16:15.870 --> 00:16:19.669 in their car. So that's the way our social workers 00:16:19.669 --> 00:16:22.409 in Lawndale are able to address the different 00:16:22.409 --> 00:16:26.009 systems. So not only individually, but in group 00:16:26.009 --> 00:16:29.320 settings, working with parents. working with 00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:32.620 teachers and the school administrators to implement 00:16:32.620 --> 00:16:35.899 these initiatives at the school site. Excellent. 00:16:35.980 --> 00:16:37.879 Thank you, Maria. And you know, one of the things 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:41.320 I remember as social workers in the schools is 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:44.500 that trying to explain it to people who are not 00:16:44.500 --> 00:16:48.100 social workers of what we do is that kind of 00:16:48.100 --> 00:16:50.940 thinking about the concept that you can't teach 00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:54.629 an empty chair. So if a child isn't able to come 00:16:54.629 --> 00:16:57.730 to school, if a child isn't able to eat, if they 00:16:57.730 --> 00:17:00.950 haven't slept, if they are experiencing abuse, 00:17:01.049 --> 00:17:03.990 they're not going to focus and they're not going 00:17:03.990 --> 00:17:07.250 to learn. And so these are the things that as 00:17:07.250 --> 00:17:10.950 a school social worker, I just know that children 00:17:10.950 --> 00:17:13.490 won't learn when their basic needs have not been 00:17:13.490 --> 00:17:17.200 met. And so. It is so crucial that we continue 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:19.940 to support social work in schools because there's 00:17:19.940 --> 00:17:22.660 so many gaps that are impacting our students, 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:25.619 not just here in Los Angeles County, but around 00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:28.420 the nation. This next question I'm going to ask 00:17:28.420 --> 00:17:31.559 Kerry first is that I want to recognize that 00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:34.440 we live in an era where gun violence in schools 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:37.460 has become a reality that too many schools have 00:17:37.460 --> 00:17:40.319 had to face. And so Kerry, I know that you've 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:42.740 done a lot of work in this area, including your 00:17:42.740 --> 00:17:46.200 doctorate dissertation that focused on the experiences 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:50.099 of school social workers providing crisis response 00:17:50.099 --> 00:17:53.380 and recovery following a targeted gun violence. 00:17:53.619 --> 00:17:56.339 Can you please talk to us about the findings 00:17:56.339 --> 00:17:59.319 of your study? and why school social workers 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:01.599 are so important to the response and recovery 00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:05.200 process? My focus was really on preparation. 00:18:05.420 --> 00:18:08.980 How are we preparing school social workers to 00:18:08.980 --> 00:18:12.960 interact and provide support within a setting 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:18.000 that is increasingly becoming more violent? So 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:20.960 in addition, so my research focused on mass gun 00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:23.569 violence, but there's violence that occurs. in 00:18:23.569 --> 00:18:26.650 schools on smaller scales than mass gun violence. 00:18:26.890 --> 00:18:29.250 And so my question was, how are we preparing 00:18:29.250 --> 00:18:31.390 our school social workers for crisis response 00:18:31.390 --> 00:18:34.109 and recovery? My doctoral research focused on 00:18:34.109 --> 00:18:36.670 the experiences of school social workers who 00:18:36.670 --> 00:18:39.970 provided actual response and recovery after their 00:18:39.970 --> 00:18:42.549 school experience on violence. And it was a qualitative 00:18:42.549 --> 00:18:45.549 study and it really focused on did they feel 00:18:45.549 --> 00:18:48.769 prepared? What skills did they rely on and how 00:18:48.769 --> 00:18:51.170 did it impact them personally and professionally? 00:18:51.410 --> 00:18:53.990 And again, I just want to stress School social 00:18:53.990 --> 00:18:57.650 workers handle crises on a daily basis outside 00:18:57.650 --> 00:19:00.309 of gun violence. So student and staff death, 00:19:00.710 --> 00:19:03.150 serious accidents, community violence, natural 00:19:03.150 --> 00:19:07.170 disasters. So school social workers are handling 00:19:07.170 --> 00:19:10.690 crises on a regular basis. So do they feel prepared 00:19:10.690 --> 00:19:14.269 to respond? And one of the most significant findings 00:19:14.269 --> 00:19:17.549 in my research was around that. And the majority 00:19:17.549 --> 00:19:19.829 of participants only describe themselves as feeling 00:19:19.829 --> 00:19:22.630 moderately prepared. to respond to a crisis. 00:19:23.309 --> 00:19:25.349 And what really stood out for me was that several 00:19:25.349 --> 00:19:28.450 participants struggled to name the specific intervention. 00:19:29.049 --> 00:19:31.049 or the theoretical underpinnings for why they 00:19:31.049 --> 00:19:35.150 were using that intervention. Instead, they attributed 00:19:35.150 --> 00:19:38.410 their response to instinct or intuition rather 00:19:38.410 --> 00:19:41.470 than their formal training. And from a social 00:19:41.470 --> 00:19:44.009 work education perspective, that's really concerning. 00:19:44.289 --> 00:19:46.849 Our work is not just instinctive. We are highly 00:19:46.849 --> 00:19:49.789 trained professionals. And being able to name 00:19:49.789 --> 00:19:51.849 the interventions and understand why we're using 00:19:51.849 --> 00:19:54.990 them is essential for ethical practice and our 00:19:54.990 --> 00:19:58.690 professional legitimacy, right? Because As professionals, 00:19:58.869 --> 00:20:01.589 we're interfacing with administrators, law enforcement 00:20:01.589 --> 00:20:05.410 during a crisis. In addition to how prepared 00:20:05.410 --> 00:20:07.809 they felt, many of the participants emphasize 00:20:07.809 --> 00:20:11.289 that with trauma, the recovery is not a straight 00:20:11.289 --> 00:20:14.470 line. There's always trauma reminders such as 00:20:14.470 --> 00:20:17.150 time markers, legal proceedings, media coverage, 00:20:17.450 --> 00:20:20.990 or other crises that reactivate the trauma. So 00:20:20.990 --> 00:20:24.190 this is a long term process. It's the response 00:20:24.190 --> 00:20:27.490 is initial, but then there's recovery. And then 00:20:27.740 --> 00:20:32.339 Another finding is around self -care, the impact 00:20:32.339 --> 00:20:34.900 personally and professionally. And I went in 00:20:34.900 --> 00:20:37.500 thinking, okay, what supports did these professionals 00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:40.220 get to why they were providing support to others? 00:20:40.460 --> 00:20:42.359 And I was surprised to learn that the biggest 00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:45.539 support was being able to connect with their 00:20:45.539 --> 00:20:48.519 colleagues who they felt like had a shared experience, 00:20:48.900 --> 00:20:52.700 that connection, that relationship. And I think 00:20:52.700 --> 00:20:55.660 that as school social workers, it's so important 00:20:55.660 --> 00:20:59.220 that we remember the power of relationships. 00:20:59.900 --> 00:21:03.380 So as professionals, we're skilled in engagement, 00:21:03.460 --> 00:21:05.880 assessment, intervention. But I think it goes 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:09.140 back to what the author, Dr. Judith Herdman said, 00:21:09.579 --> 00:21:12.960 that recovery can only take place within the 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:16.240 context of relationships and not occur in isolation. 00:21:16.660 --> 00:21:19.250 And I think as social workers, we understand 00:21:19.250 --> 00:21:21.950 the importance of connection, relationship, and 00:21:21.950 --> 00:21:26.549 also intervention on multiple system levels. 00:21:26.809 --> 00:21:30.990 So I think that social workers are uniquely trained 00:21:30.990 --> 00:21:33.269 for crisis response and recovery. And I would 00:21:33.269 --> 00:21:36.309 echo something Maria said, is that we need a 00:21:36.309 --> 00:21:39.690 seat at the table. We need to be at the decision 00:21:39.690 --> 00:21:42.269 -makers table because we come from a systems 00:21:42.269 --> 00:21:44.049 perspective, we come from a strengths -based 00:21:44.049 --> 00:21:47.589 perspective, and we come from a trauma -responsive 00:21:47.589 --> 00:21:51.289 perspective. And I would encourage us as school 00:21:51.289 --> 00:21:53.990 social workers to be advocates in that area and 00:21:53.990 --> 00:21:57.430 try to get a seat at the table. I agree 100%. 00:21:57.430 --> 00:21:59.549 Love that. Maria, would you like to add anything? 00:22:00.069 --> 00:22:05.500 Yes, I completely 100 % agree that. When I entered 00:22:05.500 --> 00:22:08.440 the field of social work in school settings, 00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:11.980 I was prepared. The university had prepared me, 00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:15.640 my professors had prepared me, and that, yes, 00:22:16.299 --> 00:22:19.000 at the root of it all, it comes down to relationships, 00:22:19.740 --> 00:22:21.519 relationships with teachers, relationships with 00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:24.240 administrators, with parents, with students. 00:22:24.579 --> 00:22:26.700 You can't get to the student unless you get to 00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:29.380 the parent. We really think systemically, and 00:22:29.380 --> 00:22:32.579 I completely agree with what Perry said. There's 00:22:32.579 --> 00:22:35.480 so much that we can do with just the connections. 00:22:35.900 --> 00:22:38.460 And so integrating that as part of the recovery 00:22:38.460 --> 00:22:42.220 process is vital. So excellent. Glad to hear 00:22:42.220 --> 00:22:45.559 that. And, you know, I want to shift gears just 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:49.779 a moment and really ask about because we're still 00:22:49.779 --> 00:22:53.990 in this recovery. phase from the COVID -19 pandemic 00:22:53.990 --> 00:22:56.950 where it's, you know, six years ago. It feels 00:22:56.950 --> 00:23:00.230 like it was just yesterday. But Maria, I'd really 00:23:00.230 --> 00:23:03.569 like to, you know, just kind of thinking about 00:23:03.569 --> 00:23:07.329 there's that lingering debate around whether 00:23:07.329 --> 00:23:10.190 or not schools are still feeling impacts from 00:23:10.190 --> 00:23:15.829 COVID. Can you share with us how your students 00:23:15.829 --> 00:23:18.910 and your district, how your students might be 00:23:18.910 --> 00:23:22.109 still impacted if they are, how the schools are 00:23:22.109 --> 00:23:25.609 recovering. The pandemic accelerated a lot of 00:23:25.609 --> 00:23:29.410 important conversations that social workers were 00:23:29.410 --> 00:23:32.509 discussing around mental health, around wellness, 00:23:33.089 --> 00:23:37.250 around the whole child support. It became a topic 00:23:37.250 --> 00:23:40.430 of conversation that was extremely important 00:23:40.430 --> 00:23:43.869 at the time. because students were experiencing 00:23:43.869 --> 00:23:49.630 anxiety, grief, uncertainty, isolation. And so 00:23:49.630 --> 00:23:54.109 the pandemic really changed the fabric of our 00:23:54.109 --> 00:23:57.410 education system. Schools became a safe place 00:23:57.410 --> 00:24:00.349 for students to get their meals, to get their 00:24:00.349 --> 00:24:02.750 mental health support, their stability, and then 00:24:02.750 --> 00:24:06.210 that was taken away. And then six years later, 00:24:06.509 --> 00:24:08.869 We see the ripple effects that it's having on 00:24:08.869 --> 00:24:12.269 students, on parents, the challenges with attention 00:24:12.269 --> 00:24:15.690 span, their emotional regulation. Those are some 00:24:15.690 --> 00:24:18.109 of the things that have come up for us after 00:24:18.109 --> 00:24:21.589 the pandemic, after seeing that the students 00:24:21.589 --> 00:24:25.130 really were affected by this experience. And 00:24:25.130 --> 00:24:29.250 so now we've had a lot of conversations about 00:24:29.250 --> 00:24:34.619 how can we help our students as a whole. How 00:24:34.619 --> 00:24:38.099 can we collaborate with different people within 00:24:38.099 --> 00:24:41.079 the school setting so that we could get outcomes? 00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:44.000 And I think that's the most difficult part that 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.559 administrators have right now is there are multiple 00:24:47.559 --> 00:24:51.420 people with various levels of expertise and getting 00:24:51.420 --> 00:24:53.980 them together to work collaboratively to support 00:24:53.980 --> 00:24:57.079 the students is something that we are working 00:24:57.079 --> 00:25:00.720 on. There's been a lot of discussions about like 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:04.779 young people now and some of my contacts still 00:25:04.779 --> 00:25:08.259 with with teachers that I work with and principals 00:25:08.259 --> 00:25:13.680 and they still see this shift of learners that 00:25:13.680 --> 00:25:17.240 are struggling with social emotional you know 00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:21.119 attachments and and still having struggles and 00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:23.720 they say and they attribute it back to the pandemic 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:26.720 it's like well these young people they grew up 00:25:26.809 --> 00:25:28.950 during the time when the pandemic, when they 00:25:28.950 --> 00:25:32.109 were so isolated. So there's still, I have heard 00:25:32.109 --> 00:25:34.890 from my fellow colleagues and friends that are 00:25:34.890 --> 00:25:39.210 in the schools that there is some residual impacts. 00:25:39.970 --> 00:25:41.609 Kerry, I don't know if you wanted to add to 00:25:41.609 --> 00:25:44.230 that at all and before we start to close up. 00:25:44.549 --> 00:25:46.690 Absolutely, it goes back to the whole idea that 00:25:46.690 --> 00:25:50.630 trauma is not linear and recovery takes time. 00:25:51.109 --> 00:25:54.289 So with trauma, there's impacts in the immediate. 00:25:54.490 --> 00:25:57.890 and then there's ongoing impacts. That we're 00:25:57.890 --> 00:26:01.730 seeing the continued impact of COVID does not 00:26:01.730 --> 00:26:05.200 surprise me. but I am encouraged that as a profession 00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:08.759 we're recognizing it and we're developing interventions 00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:12.119 and support for these students who were impacted. 00:26:12.500 --> 00:26:15.619 Yes, thank you so much. And so as we come to 00:26:15.619 --> 00:26:18.480 the end of our discussion today, I'd really like 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:21.740 to ask, I'll start with Kerry first and then 00:26:21.740 --> 00:26:24.539 Maria, is there anything else that that we haven't 00:26:24.539 --> 00:26:27.200 talked about that I didn't ask about that you 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:29.099 would like our listeners to know about school 00:26:29.099 --> 00:26:33.819 social work? My bias is trauma training in schools 00:26:33.819 --> 00:26:37.339 and I would encourage any individual that is 00:26:37.339 --> 00:26:40.519 interested in school social work to make sure 00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:43.579 that you feel that you're prepared. That might 00:26:43.579 --> 00:26:46.559 mean taking trainings like psychological first 00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:49.059 aid or CBITS, cognitive behavioral intervention 00:26:49.059 --> 00:26:53.319 for trauma in schools, or it might be taking 00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:56.119 a course in neurobiology of trauma and how trauma 00:26:56.119 --> 00:26:59.119 can impact our brains both in the way students 00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:02.519 regulate their behaviors and and their emotions 00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:05.319 and I think this is critically important because 00:27:05.319 --> 00:27:10.099 so often students can be reprimanded for disruptive 00:27:10.099 --> 00:27:13.980 behaviors in class and sometimes teachers or 00:27:13.980 --> 00:27:16.960 administrators or staff assume that is either 00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:20.599 due to oppositionality or due to attentional 00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:23.000 difficulties. Oftentimes they'll say oh this 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:26.680 student has ADHD or and what is often overlooked 00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:31.680 is the underlying trauma that might be impacting 00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:35.000 regulation, emotional and behavioral regulation. 00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:39.299 And so my bias is as school social workers, we 00:27:39.299 --> 00:27:41.720 need to know the neurobiology of trauma and those 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:43.700 interventions. So we're supporting students, 00:27:44.099 --> 00:27:45.960 but not only supporting students, but working 00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:49.660 with our educators and our administrators to 00:27:49.660 --> 00:27:53.500 develop a trauma responsive. The term trauma 00:27:53.500 --> 00:27:56.759 informed is used quite frequently. I steer away 00:27:56.759 --> 00:27:59.619 from that term now. One of our colleagues Professor 00:27:59.619 --> 00:28:02.859 Lisa Wobbe-Veit, who was a former school social 00:28:02.859 --> 00:28:06.019 worker, and she's the crisis recovery consultant 00:28:06.019 --> 00:28:09.240 for Marjorie Stoneman Douglas, the most impacted 00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:12.039 families. And she has really influenced me to 00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:14.559 move away from trauma -informed to trauma -responsive. 00:28:14.819 --> 00:28:19.819 It's not enough informed. We have to, at least 00:28:19.819 --> 00:28:23.299 as a profession, do our best to influence the 00:28:23.299 --> 00:28:26.140 school systems we work within to become trauma 00:28:26.140 --> 00:28:28.480 responsive. And just a quick shout out to 00:28:28.599 --> 00:28:30.299 Dr. Steve Hydon, the director of schools track, 00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:33.380 as well as project specialist, Jenny Kim, who 00:28:33.380 --> 00:28:35.779 do an amazing job coordinating the track and 00:28:35.779 --> 00:28:38.240 the credential. Excellent. I love that. Thank 00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:41.359 you, Kerry. Maria, any final thoughts for our 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:44.420 listeners? Well, I agree that we have to be trauma 00:28:44.420 --> 00:28:47.579 responsive, and that's what school social work 00:28:47.579 --> 00:28:50.799 is all about. School social workers, they could 00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:54.259 be working with a teacher, collaborating with 00:28:54.259 --> 00:28:58.839 the administrator, facilitating a parent workshop, 00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:02.519 responding to a crisis, and every single day 00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:05.839 it looks different. That's what makes it so powerful. 00:29:06.140 --> 00:29:09.720 because we're able to advocate for students. 00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:13.720 We're able to build systems, problem solve, all 00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:18.579 at the same time. And so at its core, this work 00:29:18.579 --> 00:29:21.920 is really about hope and possibility. And if 00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:25.099 we invest in school social work, we're investing 00:29:25.099 --> 00:29:28.900 in students' futures, teachers' support, and 00:29:28.900 --> 00:29:31.720 the overall school community. It's more than 00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:36.460 a job. It's a calling. It's one of the most meaningful 00:29:36.460 --> 00:29:40.140 ways I know to create lasting change. Excellent. 00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:44.000 Excellent. I love that. And so thank you, Kerry 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.940 and Maria, for joining us for a great discussion 00:29:46.940 --> 00:29:50.299 today. To our listeners, if you want to learn 00:29:50.299 --> 00:29:54.480 more about social work in schools and the educational 00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:59.380 setting, please visit our website dworakpeck.usc.edu/schoolsocialwork 00:29:59.380 --> 00:30:03.319 And if you are 00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:05.759 interested in our graduate certificate in the 00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:08.460 trauma -informed practices in educational settings, 00:30:09.319 --> 00:30:14.279 visit dworakpeck.usc.edu/graduatecertificates 00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:17.539 Or if you would like to network 00:30:17.539 --> 00:30:20.480 with our amazing guests regarding their work 00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:23.319 or want to support our transformative research 00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:26.579 and programs, please email us at 00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:28.440 listenuppeople@usc.edu