WEBVTT 00:00:13.399 --> 00:00:16.079 Hello, and welcome to Listen Up People, a podcast 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:18.739 of USC Suzanne Dworak-Peck School of Social 00:00:18.739 --> 00:00:21.399 Work. I'm Dr. Eric Rice, professor and associate 00:00:21.399 --> 00:00:24.339 dean for research. Around the globe, an estimated 00:00:24.339 --> 00:00:28.280 27 million people are exploited for labor, services, 00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:31.260 and commercial sex. Traffickers prey on some 00:00:31.260 --> 00:00:33.479 of the world's most marginalized and vulnerable 00:00:33.479 --> 00:00:36.119 individuals, profiting from their plight. This 00:00:36.119 --> 00:00:39.679 crisis affects both men and women, boys and girls. 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:42.560 My guests today have dedicated their careers 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:44.799 to preventing and combating human trafficking 00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:47.700 with a vision of eradicating trafficking in all 00:00:47.700 --> 00:00:50.219 of its forms. It's my pleasure to introduce today 00:00:50.219 --> 00:00:53.359 my two colleagues, Dr. Annalisa Enrile, teaching 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:56.359 professor, and Dr. Holly Priebe Sotelo, associate 00:00:56.359 --> 00:00:58.649 teaching professor of practicum education. We 00:00:58.649 --> 00:01:00.969 at the School of Social Work are so fortunate 00:01:00.969 --> 00:01:03.929 to have this formidable pair of anti -trafficking 00:01:03.929 --> 00:01:06.329 warriors educating the next generation of social 00:01:06.329 --> 00:01:08.069 work leaders at our school. It's great to have 00:01:08.069 --> 00:01:10.189 you both here. Thank you. Thank you for having 00:01:10.189 --> 00:01:13.799 us. I like to start these episodes off with a 00:01:13.799 --> 00:01:16.359 personal question, which is, how did you get 00:01:16.359 --> 00:01:19.060 interested in doing this particular kind of work? 00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:22.439 And maybe I'll turn to Annalisa first and then 00:01:22.439 --> 00:01:25.500 Holly, but Annalisa, human trafficking, why did 00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:27.540 you get involved in this work? So I've actually 00:01:27.540 --> 00:01:31.079 been working on human trafficking even before 00:01:31.079 --> 00:01:32.859 we were calling a lot of the things that we're 00:01:32.859 --> 00:01:36.090 calling trafficking now. trafficking. In 1993 00:01:36.090 --> 00:01:40.269 I was an undergraduate student and I was at an 00:01:40.269 --> 00:01:44.950 event, a women's conference event, and two of 00:01:44.950 --> 00:01:48.530 the speakers were mail order brides in one workshop 00:01:48.530 --> 00:01:52.870 and two of the speakers were former garment workers 00:01:52.870 --> 00:01:57.390 that had been enslaved in Saipan. And just hearing 00:01:57.390 --> 00:02:01.689 their stories and listening to them talk about 00:02:01.689 --> 00:02:05.230 their lives as they and they were so when they 00:02:05.230 --> 00:02:07.750 started with their traffic were so close in age 00:02:07.750 --> 00:02:10.810 to what I was I just thought like this is going 00:02:10.810 --> 00:02:14.409 to be what I am committed to forever no matter 00:02:14.409 --> 00:02:16.689 you know what happens and it just so happened 00:02:16.689 --> 00:02:19.409 you know that I stayed in academia and as a social 00:02:19.409 --> 00:02:21.310 worker I think what's really beautiful about 00:02:21.310 --> 00:02:24.319 our field is that we can work in so many different 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:27.080 capacities. I always say like the whole continuum 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:31.039 of trafficking, I have experienced, you know, 00:02:31.180 --> 00:02:33.719 work in those areas. And it seems so daunting. 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:35.659 It grows bigger and bigger. But that's always 00:02:35.659 --> 00:02:37.860 because we are learning more and more about it. 00:02:37.900 --> 00:02:40.159 But that's really how I started. Holly, what 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:41.840 about you? How did you get interested in doing 00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:44.080 this kind of work? Thank you, Eric. And I just 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:46.479 want to start by saying I'm so honored to be 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:49.180 sharing this podcast with you both. Annalisa 00:02:49.180 --> 00:02:52.759 is truly a warrior. I started You know, as a 00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:57.199 social worker in 1991, 92 at DCFS LA County, 00:02:58.060 --> 00:03:01.180 and similar to what Annalisa said is that we 00:03:01.180 --> 00:03:04.139 were doing this work before we knew it was called 00:03:04.139 --> 00:03:07.979 CSEC or sex trafficking. We didn't call it that. 00:03:08.139 --> 00:03:11.639 This is a fairly new term within the last 25 00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:14.539 years. But as a social worker for LA County, 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:17.500 I remember having cases, working with families 00:03:17.500 --> 00:03:20.280 who were selling young children to keep their 00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:23.580 lights on. to sustain their drug habits, then 00:03:23.580 --> 00:03:26.840 fast forward working in the school district at 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:29.860 LA Unified School District for 16 years doing 00:03:29.860 --> 00:03:33.319 violence prevention work. crisis response work. 00:03:33.539 --> 00:03:37.500 I was approached by our police chief, Chief Zipperman, 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:40.419 I think it was 2014, when he said, you know, 00:03:40.460 --> 00:03:42.360 Holly, what are we doing in the schools about 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:45.080 human trafficking? And I paused for a really 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:47.180 long time and I said, I don't understand what 00:03:47.180 --> 00:03:49.280 you mean. We don't have human trafficking in 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:53.240 schools. And so very quickly, I was educated 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:56.560 by some real warriors. These are the real people 00:03:56.560 --> 00:03:59.520 on the ground, that Michelle Gaimans of the world 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:03.110 and a number of experts that came forward and 00:04:03.110 --> 00:04:06.729 educated me on what was happening in our schools 00:04:06.729 --> 00:04:09.229 under our noses that young people were being 00:04:09.229 --> 00:04:13.210 trafficked out of our schools. And so right away 00:04:13.210 --> 00:04:16.490 I put together a task force in the school district 00:04:16.490 --> 00:04:20.230 even before there were laws to do that. And from 00:04:20.230 --> 00:04:24.089 there, this movement of prevention in schools 00:04:24.089 --> 00:04:27.629 has really been my passion, is really making 00:04:27.629 --> 00:04:30.209 sure that we educate young people and their parents 00:04:30.209 --> 00:04:32.649 about what this is and how to protect kids. So 00:04:32.649 --> 00:04:35.850 that's how I, in a very short summary, how I 00:04:35.850 --> 00:04:38.370 got involved. But thank you. Amazing, amazing. 00:04:38.629 --> 00:04:41.569 I'm struck that both of you said, before we call 00:04:41.569 --> 00:04:44.949 it human trafficking, maybe a place for us to 00:04:44.949 --> 00:04:47.660 start this conversation is to just say, what 00:04:47.660 --> 00:04:51.019 are we talking about when we say human trafficking? 00:04:51.500 --> 00:04:53.579 Maybe, Annalisa, you can start off with kind 00:04:53.579 --> 00:04:55.339 of how you conceptualize it, and then, you know, 00:04:55.399 --> 00:04:58.120 Holly, you could maybe add to it if there's more, 00:04:58.300 --> 00:05:00.360 because I'm sure there will be. So, Annalisa? 00:05:00.579 --> 00:05:03.000 I think that the definition of human trafficking, 00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:05.939 like I said earlier, is one of the things that 00:05:05.939 --> 00:05:08.519 we're getting better and better at understanding 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:12.079 the nuances. So, you know, 20 years ago, it was 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:14.959 we talked about, you know, issues of coercion 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:17.459 and didn't include things like poverty, which, 00:05:17.459 --> 00:05:20.860 you know, Holly was alluding to. And now we recognize 00:05:20.860 --> 00:05:23.540 that people who are living in extreme poverty 00:05:23.540 --> 00:05:27.100 have very limited choices. So this could be considered 00:05:27.100 --> 00:05:29.899 a form of coercion. I think like the official 00:05:29.899 --> 00:05:33.019 definition is something around recruitment, transport, 00:05:33.500 --> 00:05:37.620 harboring, you know, of persons and exploitation 00:05:37.620 --> 00:05:41.680 for, you know, where fraud, coercion, force. 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:45.800 has occurred, and usually for the purposes of 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:49.319 commercial sexual exploitation or labor. But 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:52.439 we also see in many countries, especially underdeveloped 00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:56.279 countries, the trafficking of human organs. So 00:05:56.279 --> 00:05:59.800 I also see that as part of human trafficking 00:05:59.800 --> 00:06:02.579 as well. Wow. Holly, do you want to add to that, 00:06:02.579 --> 00:06:04.220 since you were just talking about how much you 00:06:04.220 --> 00:06:06.560 want to educate families about these issues? 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:10.740 Yes. Thank you so much. And to add to Annalisa's 00:06:10.740 --> 00:06:14.699 comments, We know now that there are special, 00:06:14.740 --> 00:06:18.779 there's factors that create more risk, that puts 00:06:18.779 --> 00:06:22.160 populations at risk. So again, we used to think 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:25.180 about it as something overseas, but what we know 00:06:25.180 --> 00:06:29.139 is that again, poverty is a very common denominator 00:06:29.139 --> 00:06:33.220 for many of the families or victims or survivors, 00:06:33.459 --> 00:06:37.240 histories of child sexual abuse, a history where 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:41.649 their ACEs obviously are adverse childhood. experiences 00:06:41.649 --> 00:06:45.610 put families at a significant risk of being trafficked 00:06:45.610 --> 00:06:48.449 because when you're trying to determine, how 00:06:48.449 --> 00:06:50.850 do I feed my children? How do I keep my lights 00:06:50.850 --> 00:06:54.750 on? How do I pay my rent or my mortgage, et cetera? 00:06:54.949 --> 00:06:57.610 These are things where people are in survival 00:06:57.610 --> 00:07:01.649 mode and will do almost anything to stay alive. 00:07:01.730 --> 00:07:05.290 So we know that there are some common denominators 00:07:05.290 --> 00:07:09.029 that we need to help our families to stay out 00:07:09.029 --> 00:07:13.259 of being recruited or knowing what it looks like. 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:15.920 There's some other elements and like in schools 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:19.180 where we know where we can help people do simple 00:07:19.180 --> 00:07:22.079 things, you know, connecting with young people, 00:07:22.339 --> 00:07:25.199 asking what's happened to them, you know, being 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:29.379 more trauma informed about, you know, our work 00:07:29.379 --> 00:07:32.579 that. perhaps maybe young people are behaving 00:07:32.579 --> 00:07:35.819 in such a way because there's a history, there's 00:07:35.819 --> 00:07:41.180 some trauma that needs to be uncovered. substance 00:07:41.180 --> 00:07:43.860 abuse and homelessness and so all these things 00:07:43.860 --> 00:07:47.500 that are contributing to why people fall into 00:07:47.500 --> 00:07:49.879 the trap of human trafficking. Something you 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:52.680 said just like triggered something for me as 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:55.759 well in terms of you know we want to have these 00:07:55.759 --> 00:07:58.939 really simple definitions and I think that what 00:07:58.939 --> 00:08:02.079 is very difficult especially about sex trafficking 00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:04.800 is that there are these shades of gray so in 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:07.819 many countries the United States included we've 00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:09.959 you know tried to say oh there's this you know 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:13.399 at 18 18 and below for sure that sex trafficking 00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:16.459 and then it becomes a little bit hazy but even 00:08:16.459 --> 00:08:19.759 to get you know that classification of trafficking 00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:22.899 for children was a very very difficult fight 00:08:22.899 --> 00:08:26.019 for the anti -trafficking movement because of 00:08:26.019 --> 00:08:29.160 you know this idea that you know sex is something 00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:32.639 that it can be transactional and you know and 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:36.590 so it was very difficult convincing people. about 00:08:36.590 --> 00:08:40.090 all of the things that Holly has mentioned that 00:08:40.090 --> 00:08:43.009 can be considered or should be considered a form 00:08:43.009 --> 00:08:46.629 of coercion. I mean, even today, it is a debate 00:08:46.629 --> 00:08:50.330 amongst people whether or not trauma really plays 00:08:50.330 --> 00:08:54.070 a role in what we think of as true choice. And 00:08:54.070 --> 00:08:57.230 so sometimes it's really frustrating coming from 00:08:57.230 --> 00:08:59.370 a background of what we know as social workers, 00:08:59.549 --> 00:09:01.889 especially around mental health and what trauma 00:09:01.889 --> 00:09:05.350 does, because it's, you know, you've got to go 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:07.840 five steps back when you start this education. 00:09:08.259 --> 00:09:12.200 And oftentimes, it doesn't fit nicely into a 00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:15.080 box. And so that is where I think a lot of the 00:09:15.080 --> 00:09:18.120 challenges have been in this space. And you know 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:21.320 what, can we just add something? Sorry. I just 00:09:21.320 --> 00:09:24.340 you also triggered something else for me, Annalisa, 00:09:24.419 --> 00:09:28.779 where most people who are involved or most victims 00:09:28.779 --> 00:09:31.860 don't see themselves as victims. They go through 00:09:31.860 --> 00:09:38.769 this life span of thinking that they have somehow 00:09:38.769 --> 00:09:41.970 consented or maybe it was their fault. And so 00:09:41.970 --> 00:09:46.149 there's so much shame associated, the stigma 00:09:46.149 --> 00:09:49.870 associated with it, that they defend themselves 00:09:49.870 --> 00:09:52.690 sometimes to say, no, I consented, even though 00:09:52.690 --> 00:09:55.789 we know in California, minors are not able to 00:09:55.789 --> 00:09:59.090 consent until they're 18 years old. But so there's 00:09:59.090 --> 00:10:02.649 this debate about people are out there on the 00:10:02.649 --> 00:10:06.090 on the track or they're participating. This is 00:10:06.090 --> 00:10:08.169 their livelihood and leave them alone. They're 00:10:08.169 --> 00:10:11.809 making a living. And so there's that debate as 00:10:11.809 --> 00:10:16.529 to whether or not is this a crime? Are they consenting? 00:10:16.710 --> 00:10:19.929 And so that's half of the battle when you talk 00:10:19.929 --> 00:10:22.129 to people that are not in our field of social 00:10:22.129 --> 00:10:24.629 work is that they they just can't get their heads 00:10:24.629 --> 00:10:27.879 around. It's like, wait, if they're on this or 00:10:27.879 --> 00:10:31.200 if they're doing this, can't they just leave? 00:10:31.379 --> 00:10:34.960 Why don't they go? Why, right? The big debate 00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:37.340 is they don't, a lot of times they don't see 00:10:37.340 --> 00:10:40.440 themselves as victims. So this vicious cycle 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:43.120 continues. So that's part of the problem too. 00:10:43.500 --> 00:10:45.950 Absolutely. I mean, I know. Probably both of 00:10:45.950 --> 00:10:48.049 you know that I do a lot of work with young adults 00:10:48.049 --> 00:10:50.289 and teenagers who are experiencing homelessness. 00:10:50.889 --> 00:10:53.950 And I certainly am not an expert in the field 00:10:53.950 --> 00:10:57.570 of trafficking, but I know that this bleeds into 00:10:57.570 --> 00:11:00.129 the space that I study. And I certainly have 00:11:00.129 --> 00:11:02.990 seen what you're talking about, which is young 00:11:02.990 --> 00:11:05.870 people that are engaged in commercial sex work 00:11:05.870 --> 00:11:08.309 or transaction sex. And they wouldn't define 00:11:08.309 --> 00:11:11.049 themselves necessarily as trafficking victims, 00:11:11.090 --> 00:11:13.289 but their freedom of choice is not something 00:11:13.289 --> 00:11:16.549 that I would necessarily say is very strong. 00:11:17.129 --> 00:11:19.450 But you also don't want to necessarily tell people 00:11:19.450 --> 00:11:22.289 that they don't have freedom of choice. I think 00:11:22.289 --> 00:11:25.649 it's a very fine line about supporting folks 00:11:25.649 --> 00:11:27.889 as well. And I think one of the things that I 00:11:27.889 --> 00:11:30.029 was really interested in as a follow up to this 00:11:30.029 --> 00:11:32.309 question really is, you know, Annalisa, you have 00:11:32.309 --> 00:11:34.870 said sometimes that there's a normalization of 00:11:34.870 --> 00:11:36.950 transactional relationships that you think has 00:11:36.950 --> 00:11:39.309 contributed to this problem. Can you maybe speak 00:11:39.309 --> 00:11:41.730 to what it is that you mean by this? What is 00:11:41.730 --> 00:11:43.429 a transactional relationship and what does it 00:11:43.429 --> 00:11:45.509 mean that it's become so normalized in our global 00:11:45.509 --> 00:11:47.990 culture? Yeah, thanks. That's such a great question. 00:11:48.210 --> 00:11:50.389 I think there's a normalization through social 00:11:50.389 --> 00:11:54.769 media, especially on TikTok and also through, 00:11:54.769 --> 00:11:59.309 you know, reality. where you get into relationships 00:11:59.309 --> 00:12:02.830 and part of the function of an intimate relationship, 00:12:03.090 --> 00:12:06.090 a romantic relationship, is this idea of gifts. 00:12:06.939 --> 00:12:09.480 experiences, you know, I mean, there's like this 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:12.059 whole viral thing on TikTok about like, he doesn't 00:12:12.059 --> 00:12:13.720 really love you if he takes you to Cheesecake 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:15.440 Factory. I mean, I mean, it's like, you know, 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:18.259 ridiculous kinds of things like that. And this, 00:12:18.259 --> 00:12:21.419 this idea that, okay, it's something that I can 00:12:21.419 --> 00:12:27.000 trade my, my time, my sexuality, my sex act, 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:30.559 you know, in order for things. And you know, 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.960 what happens then is because it's normalized, 00:12:34.419 --> 00:12:39.200 there is that this narrative that I think those 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:42.759 kids who are involved in survival sex, you know, 00:12:42.820 --> 00:12:45.360 where they are treating sexual favors for a night 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:49.080 on someone's couch, or if they have been, like 00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:51.480 Holly said, trafficked but don't want to admit 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:53.899 that they're trafficked. I mean, I don't think 00:12:53.899 --> 00:12:56.960 that it is a coincidence that, especially in 00:12:56.960 --> 00:12:58.919 the United States, when we look at girls who 00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:01.080 are domestically trafficked, or youth in general 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:03.460 that are domestically trafficked, a more large 00:13:03.460 --> 00:13:06.669 majority of them are traffic by Romeo pimps, 00:13:06.789 --> 00:13:09.990 what we call Romeo pimps, which is traffickers 00:13:09.990 --> 00:13:13.149 who have convinced them that they are in a relationship. 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:17.200 and that they love this person. And the only 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:20.740 reason that they are asking them to engage in 00:13:20.740 --> 00:13:23.879 commercial sexual acts is because they need money 00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:27.379 to support both of them. It's just temporary. 00:13:28.220 --> 00:13:31.480 You're my favorite. They can have multiples and 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:33.799 still find a way to rationalize that. And I think 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:37.740 that that is very much mirrored in a lot of mainstream 00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:41.799 culture in certain ways. And even if it's not 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:45.120 these kinds of viral trends, if you go like to 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.639 any high school, and many high schools are actually 00:13:47.639 --> 00:13:50.559 making this, you know, are disallowing this, 00:13:51.460 --> 00:13:54.840 like dance proposals, promposals, where these 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:59.299 very elaborate kind of proposal scenarios occur. 00:13:59.690 --> 00:14:02.350 Torrance High School is a good example. This 00:14:02.350 --> 00:14:05.309 was a couple of years ago. They've outlawed these 00:14:05.309 --> 00:14:07.929 promposals because a couple of years ago, there 00:14:07.929 --> 00:14:10.570 was a promposal that was done on social media. 00:14:10.690 --> 00:14:14.070 They streamed it live where the boy gave the 00:14:14.070 --> 00:14:18.549 promposal along with $900 in cash on this sign 00:14:18.549 --> 00:14:21.870 board. And the girl said yes. And then there 00:14:21.870 --> 00:14:24.789 was this debate in the comments, like, oh, I 00:14:24.789 --> 00:14:27.990 guess you can buy a prom date now. And all these 00:14:27.990 --> 00:14:32.029 kids were like, Yeah, yes. You know, yes. Like, 00:14:32.029 --> 00:14:35.669 hands up. I'm not gonna be sold for less than 00:14:35.669 --> 00:14:38.870 a thousand. And that was the language that they 00:14:38.870 --> 00:14:43.169 were using. And as youth get older, I have heard 00:14:43.169 --> 00:14:47.970 of sororities in college using sugar -babying 00:14:47.970 --> 00:14:51.590 sites as ways to raise money for their sorority. 00:14:52.350 --> 00:14:57.990 So this idea that sex work is a plausible form 00:14:57.990 --> 00:15:01.909 of and not exploitation, I think is very much 00:15:01.909 --> 00:15:06.210 popularized. It is one of the big debates that 00:15:06.210 --> 00:15:10.570 Holly has mentioned. And what it does is it really 00:15:10.570 --> 00:15:14.070 kind of muddies this question around human trafficking 00:15:14.070 --> 00:15:18.100 and sex trafficking. And if you look at who is 00:15:18.100 --> 00:15:21.860 really fueling a lot of that debate and discussion 00:15:21.860 --> 00:15:25.659 on sex work, there's a lot of other interests 00:15:25.659 --> 00:15:28.940 and other beneficiaries, namely the porn industry, 00:15:29.460 --> 00:15:32.450 that is benefiting. from this type of, well, 00:15:32.450 --> 00:15:35.850 some of it should be legal. Sure. Yeah. And Holly, 00:15:36.029 --> 00:15:38.789 these comments that Annalisa made about kids 00:15:38.789 --> 00:15:40.970 in high schools really brings me back to some 00:15:40.970 --> 00:15:42.610 of the work that you've done and alluded to. 00:15:43.009 --> 00:15:45.330 And I know you've said that oftentimes people 00:15:45.330 --> 00:15:47.350 that are being human trafficked are hidden in 00:15:47.350 --> 00:15:49.929 plain sight and that you want people to be aware 00:15:49.929 --> 00:15:53.350 of how to even understand or identify a potential 00:15:53.350 --> 00:15:56.889 human trafficking situation. Can you maybe give 00:15:56.889 --> 00:15:59.009 our listeners a little bit of an understanding 00:15:59.009 --> 00:16:01.970 so that we can be a bit more proactive about 00:16:01.970 --> 00:16:04.289 this situation that Annalise has been talking 00:16:04.289 --> 00:16:07.690 to us about. Yeah, a few points. So hidden in 00:16:07.690 --> 00:16:11.389 plain sight, it really helps to open our eyes 00:16:11.389 --> 00:16:14.730 that the person right next door to us perhaps 00:16:14.730 --> 00:16:18.669 is being engaged or is being trafficked. And 00:16:18.669 --> 00:16:22.809 I'll give an example. There's a video that I 00:16:22.809 --> 00:16:25.830 use about a young lady who was being trafficked. 00:16:25.889 --> 00:16:28.490 She was 15 years old when she met her trafficker 00:16:28.490 --> 00:16:32.190 on Instagram. because they liked each other's 00:16:32.190 --> 00:16:35.450 tattoos. So I showed this video for the purpose 00:16:35.450 --> 00:16:38.809 of demonstrating how recruitment, how easy it 00:16:38.809 --> 00:16:42.490 happens, how quickly it can grow. So this video 00:16:42.490 --> 00:16:46.090 that I showed in class when I was doing a workshop 00:16:46.090 --> 00:16:48.950 or training, and lo and behold, at the end of 00:16:48.950 --> 00:16:52.200 the training, Two of the participants in my class 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:54.740 said, Holly, we know that person. She was our 00:16:54.740 --> 00:16:58.220 next -door neighbor. And we never knew that she 00:16:58.220 --> 00:17:01.039 was being trafficked. We always just said in 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:04.920 the community, she's a slut. She was loose. She 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.819 had many boyfriends. We just all judged her. 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:11.579 That's an example of the fact that right next 00:17:11.579 --> 00:17:13.819 door to them, and they were social work students 00:17:13.819 --> 00:17:17.380 who said this, they didn't know, but the community 00:17:17.380 --> 00:17:21.140 had ostracized her. So I say this because... 00:17:20.940 --> 00:17:24.500 Oftentimes, people who are actively being trafficked 00:17:24.500 --> 00:17:27.460 are attending our schools. They're in our supermarkets. 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:31.319 They're in our hospitals. We know about like 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:34.759 85 % of people who are being trafficked visit 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:37.700 emergency rooms, and usually their pimp is right 00:17:37.700 --> 00:17:40.359 with them. Pimp, meaning their trafficker, is 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:44.180 standing right with them, oftentimes not allowing 00:17:44.180 --> 00:17:49.150 their girl or whoever not to speak. So there's 00:17:49.150 --> 00:17:52.730 a number of trainings of ways that we can make 00:17:52.730 --> 00:17:56.309 people that are working in what we would consider, 00:17:56.470 --> 00:17:59.750 you know, just public facing types of jobs, whether 00:17:59.750 --> 00:18:02.210 you're delivering mail, whether you're bagging 00:18:02.210 --> 00:18:05.109 groceries at a tattoo parlor, wherever you are, 00:18:05.390 --> 00:18:08.849 you might be encountering a victim of human trafficking 00:18:08.849 --> 00:18:11.569 right under your nose. And so if we could just 00:18:11.569 --> 00:18:14.809 help people recognize what are some of the red 00:18:14.809 --> 00:18:18.750 flags, what are some of the questions that you 00:18:18.750 --> 00:18:21.309 might be able to ask. I did a training not too 00:18:21.309 --> 00:18:24.089 long ago in New Mexico last month where we were 00:18:24.089 --> 00:18:28.190 training 47 hospitals, their administrators and 00:18:28.190 --> 00:18:31.730 ER workers about what does it look like when 00:18:31.730 --> 00:18:35.309 a trafficker brings in someone and then what 00:18:35.309 --> 00:18:38.269 questions might you be able to ask. Again, to 00:18:38.269 --> 00:18:40.529 answer your question about hidden in plain sight, 00:18:40.730 --> 00:18:43.029 they're everywhere. They're not just like what 00:18:43.029 --> 00:18:45.190 the movies might think that they're hidden in 00:18:45.190 --> 00:18:48.509 a basement. They're not hidden always in a basement 00:18:48.509 --> 00:18:51.809 they are out in plain sight and we need to be 00:18:51.809 --> 00:18:54.819 able to recognize that. And I think one of the 00:18:54.819 --> 00:18:57.200 things that's great, you know, as Holly's mentioned, 00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:01.559 is the kind of front line against trafficking 00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:04.720 are all these people that are like the first 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:07.339 point of contact, you know, the people that are 00:19:07.339 --> 00:19:10.799 working in stores and people that are nail technicians, 00:19:11.180 --> 00:19:14.579 people that are hairdressers, people that are, 00:19:14.579 --> 00:19:17.779 you know, emergency room nurses, hotel workers, 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:20.059 you know, like, so trainings, for example, for 00:19:20.059 --> 00:19:22.440 hotel workers, if you are like at the front desk 00:19:22.509 --> 00:19:26.410 hotel and you're checking someone in who is you 00:19:26.410 --> 00:19:30.029 know wearing like some booty shorts and a sports 00:19:30.029 --> 00:19:34.710 bra and it's raining and freezing outside that's 00:19:34.710 --> 00:19:38.869 a red flag. If there's no luggage, if the person 00:19:38.869 --> 00:19:42.430 that's checking them in is extremely older than 00:19:42.430 --> 00:19:45.930 them, and especially if you see one or both of 00:19:45.930 --> 00:19:48.990 them leave without the other, all of these are 00:19:48.990 --> 00:19:53.369 very easy tells. And I think that there's just 00:19:53.369 --> 00:19:56.589 brave frontliners out there. But if we could 00:19:56.589 --> 00:19:59.789 give them that information that Holly is describing, 00:20:00.329 --> 00:20:05.069 it arms them with the ability to call the authorities. 00:20:05.069 --> 00:20:08.369 and say, I think this is happening because of 00:20:08.369 --> 00:20:11.490 these types of red flags. I think some other 00:20:11.490 --> 00:20:15.390 red flags could be, you see an uptick in trafficking 00:20:15.390 --> 00:20:17.950 whenever there's events. We always talk about 00:20:17.950 --> 00:20:21.289 major athletic events, but any events. For example, 00:20:21.890 --> 00:20:23.930 one of the big tracks, which is where we see 00:20:23.930 --> 00:20:26.769 a lot of what we call areas, where we see a lot 00:20:26.769 --> 00:20:29.970 of sex trafficking activity happening is on Figueroa, 00:20:30.069 --> 00:20:33.849 right down the street from USC. And during graduation 00:20:33.849 --> 00:20:37.829 week, during the month of May, it is so busy 00:20:37.829 --> 00:20:41.970 and congested in that. area, anyone driving down 00:20:41.970 --> 00:20:45.089 there can see that those tracks are full. And 00:20:45.089 --> 00:20:48.569 it doesn't take a huge red flag to notice that 00:20:48.569 --> 00:20:52.309 some of the folks on the street are very, very 00:20:52.309 --> 00:20:56.589 young, could not possibly be 18. And so I think 00:20:56.589 --> 00:20:59.509 there's a lot of flags that are out there that 00:20:59.509 --> 00:21:02.069 we have to be trained to see. And I think there's 00:21:02.069 --> 00:21:04.769 also a lot of things that we don't want to see. 00:21:05.809 --> 00:21:08.609 Your story that you shared, Holly, is so touching 00:21:08.609 --> 00:21:12.480 because because it's a lot easier to malign than 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.099 it is to say, I wonder what's going on there. 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:18.279 Why is that a different person every time I see 00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:21.400 them? Why are we talking about this person in 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:24.960 this way? as opposed to just us making assumptions. 00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:28.400 It would be remiss if we didn't mention the New 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:32.339 York Times article that was just published October 00:21:32.339 --> 00:21:36.500 26th that talked about young girls being trafficked 00:21:36.500 --> 00:21:39.400 on Figueroa Street. And there's a sentence here 00:21:39.400 --> 00:21:41.420 that says, the blade, which is what they call 00:21:41.420 --> 00:21:44.319 it, or the kitty troll, the blade was an eight 00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:46.599 minute drive from the University of Southern 00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:50.779 California and yet another universe. So right 00:21:50.779 --> 00:21:54.099 down the street, From our own university, we 00:21:54.099 --> 00:21:57.220 have human trafficking happening in broad daylight. 00:21:57.380 --> 00:22:00.299 It is not unusual to drive down the street to 00:22:00.299 --> 00:22:04.619 see young girls on the street in just very, like 00:22:04.619 --> 00:22:08.000 you mentioned, it could be so cold outside, raining, 00:22:08.339 --> 00:22:12.559 and they're almost half naked. it feels like 00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:15.180 the whole community has turned a blind eye, which 00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:17.480 is a whole other topic in and of itself when 00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:20.359 we talk about the laws that have recently changed 00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:22.539 that have made it really, really difficult for 00:22:22.539 --> 00:22:25.880 law enforcement to do their job. And so that 00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:31.059 has also really debilitated us as a society to 00:22:31.059 --> 00:22:35.829 properly provide resources to get young people 00:22:35.829 --> 00:22:38.009 off the streets to get them their resources. 00:22:38.069 --> 00:22:41.210 So that's a whole nother debate as well that 00:22:41.210 --> 00:22:44.309 needs to be addressed at some point. Just kind 00:22:44.309 --> 00:22:46.730 of listening to us, I always think about like, 00:22:46.990 --> 00:22:49.130 God, this is a black hole. How are we going to 00:22:49.130 --> 00:22:52.829 ever find ourselves out of it? How can we stay 00:22:52.829 --> 00:22:55.400 even a step ahead? You know, one of the ways 00:22:55.400 --> 00:22:58.140 that I've been able to keep working on this issue 00:22:58.140 --> 00:23:02.720 is to also focus on like the amazing work that 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:06.380 people are doing and really the innovation that 00:23:06.380 --> 00:23:10.059 is happening to to fight, you know, not just 00:23:10.059 --> 00:23:13.000 sex trafficking, but also, you know, labor exploitation 00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:16.400 and trafficking, especially in these times. Try 00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:19.440 to do something that will make an impact. Well, 00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:21.940 this is this is. actually exactly what I wanted 00:23:21.940 --> 00:23:24.299 to ask as a follow -up and I would love to ask 00:23:24.299 --> 00:23:26.859 this of both of you which is it is such a huge 00:23:26.859 --> 00:23:29.759 problem. Holly's just alluded to the fact that 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:31.960 there are some legal changes that have made it 00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:36.000 even more difficult. What is it that you as social 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:40.039 work educators and social workers are encouraging 00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:43.500 people to do and how is it that social work is 00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:45.980 entering the fray? I mean I'm sure there's a... 00:23:45.690 --> 00:23:47.809 a thousand different things, but maybe you can 00:23:47.809 --> 00:23:49.589 talk about a couple of things that you think 00:23:49.589 --> 00:23:51.890 are the most important that folks are engaging 00:23:51.890 --> 00:23:54.869 in. I think for starters, I think people need 00:23:54.869 --> 00:23:58.950 to be educated voters period. They need to understand 00:23:58.950 --> 00:24:02.009 what's on the ballot and really do their homework 00:24:02.009 --> 00:24:04.970 about the unintended consequences. Sometimes 00:24:04.970 --> 00:24:09.049 that happens. And oftentimes I think our society 00:24:09.049 --> 00:24:11.910 right now, as you know, you can tell what what's 00:24:11.910 --> 00:24:14.829 been happening over the last few years that we, 00:24:14.990 --> 00:24:17.440 I think we have a society that's asleep at the 00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:20.539 wheel a little bit and that are afraid to, maybe 00:24:20.539 --> 00:24:23.200 a little apathetic feeling that, well, I'm not 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:25.440 a social worker. I'm not a police officer. How 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:28.960 am I supposed to stop human trafficking? Hasn't 00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:32.059 this been happening for centuries? Well, yes, 00:24:32.099 --> 00:24:35.279 it's been happening for centuries, but we must 00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:39.769 be... active consumers, we must be active voters, 00:24:40.009 --> 00:24:42.849 we must educate ourselves about what's happening 00:24:42.849 --> 00:24:46.789 in our society and what that might look like. 00:24:46.970 --> 00:24:50.750 I'm kind of appalled when I talk to maybe other 00:24:50.750 --> 00:24:53.769 professionals, even our students who say they 00:24:53.769 --> 00:24:55.809 don't vote because they don't feel empowered, 00:24:55.829 --> 00:24:58.289 they don't feel like their vote matters. And 00:24:58.289 --> 00:25:02.390 so I think people need to be involved, be aware 00:25:02.390 --> 00:25:05.019 what's happening. What's on the ballot? What 00:25:05.019 --> 00:25:07.460 does that really mean? We can't arrest our way 00:25:07.460 --> 00:25:11.460 out of this problem by no means, but we can become 00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:14.920 educated and put money into prevention programs 00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:19.220 where we are educating families. Because I think 00:25:19.220 --> 00:25:21.859 through education, that's the only way out of 00:25:21.859 --> 00:25:24.559 this is that we need a society that's more educated. 00:25:24.819 --> 00:25:29.529 Annalisa? I agree. And I also think that we have 00:25:29.529 --> 00:25:34.309 to look at this in context. So when you are raising 00:25:34.309 --> 00:25:37.730 children that think that it is OK to buy and 00:25:37.730 --> 00:25:40.950 sell bodies, right, that this is the whole transactional 00:25:40.950 --> 00:25:43.890 piece. And this includes the demand side, right? 00:25:43.910 --> 00:25:46.549 This includes the buyers. You know, we've seen 00:25:46.549 --> 00:25:51.690 like a huge change shift in demand where buyers 00:25:51.690 --> 00:25:54.809 are younger, where buyers say things, you know, 00:25:54.859 --> 00:25:57.640 in the kind of their exit and fuse when they 00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:00.019 are caught, where they say things like, yeah, 00:26:00.019 --> 00:26:01.359 I don't want to deal with the relationships. 00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:03.859 I'd rather just pay for it and then be done. 00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:07.099 If we don't understand kind of both sides and 00:26:07.099 --> 00:26:10.859 keep saying, how do we work with these victims 00:26:10.859 --> 00:26:13.720 of trafficking, but never talk about perpetrators, 00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:17.380 we're not going to make a dent in what is happening. 00:26:17.940 --> 00:26:22.700 I think that We also have to support those people 00:26:22.700 --> 00:26:26.779 that are creating innovations that have the potential 00:26:26.779 --> 00:26:31.000 to make great change. We have an alumnus from 00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:35.119 our program who created, so simple, just by talking 00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:38.440 to survivors and victims, she found out the one 00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:41.680 thing that they had in common was that their 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:44.920 trafficker would leave them alone. at least an 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:47.359 hour a week to go get their nails done, because 00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:50.000 they still had to have this kind of aesthetic 00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:54.079 look. And during that hour of freedom, because 00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:58.259 they're getting sent there alone, is an opportunity 00:26:58.259 --> 00:27:01.019 for intervention. And one of our students, they 00:27:01.019 --> 00:27:04.759 created this little sticker for their nails that's 00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:08.900 a QR code in this tiny sticker. So we know, as 00:27:08.900 --> 00:27:11.640 Holly alluded to, it's not easy to leave. It's 00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:14.259 something like seven or eight times. to get someone 00:27:14.259 --> 00:27:18.039 out of that sex trafficking loop. But when they 00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:22.460 are ready, they can scan that finger and that 00:27:22.460 --> 00:27:26.180 QR code, if they don't trust authorities, can 00:27:26.180 --> 00:27:29.819 be registered to contact a loved one or someone 00:27:29.819 --> 00:27:32.740 that they trust to come get them because those 00:27:32.740 --> 00:27:35.779 QR codes also have like a geo tag in them. And 00:27:35.779 --> 00:27:38.339 it's, you know, yeah. Holly, I know, speaking 00:27:38.339 --> 00:27:40.240 of interventions, that you are one of the members 00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:43.119 of the L .A. Regional Human Trafficking Task 00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:46.819 Force. So I assume that this has a force for 00:27:46.819 --> 00:27:48.000 intervention. I mean, can you tell us a little 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:49.980 bit about that experience and how that plays 00:27:49.980 --> 00:27:51.819 into these sorts of interventions that Annalisa 00:27:51.819 --> 00:27:54.339 was just telling us about? When L .A. County 00:27:54.339 --> 00:27:58.000 Board of Supervisors started the first responder 00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:01.230 protocol, I attended. Many of their meetings 00:28:01.230 --> 00:28:03.890 as the prevention side and I was the only school 00:28:03.890 --> 00:28:06.670 district representative for the whole state of 00:28:06.670 --> 00:28:09.410 California for the whole LA County that was at 00:28:09.410 --> 00:28:12.650 the table to talk about prevention and that how 00:28:12.650 --> 00:28:16.049 we were incorporating it. Because when when sitting 00:28:16.049 --> 00:28:20.089 around the table back in 2014, obviously it was 00:28:20.089 --> 00:28:24.210 very heavily. law enforcement. Sheriff Jim McDonald 00:28:24.210 --> 00:28:28.150 at the time, he was at the forefront of him and 00:28:28.150 --> 00:28:31.150 all the board of supervisors at the time. And 00:28:31.150 --> 00:28:34.049 slowly the Department of Children and Family 00:28:34.049 --> 00:28:37.859 Services became. the number one priority for 00:28:37.859 --> 00:28:40.359 children who are being identified who are being 00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:43.579 trafficked as the primary lead. So there there's 00:28:43.579 --> 00:28:47.480 a first responder protocol right now that has 00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:51.920 been in effect since about 2014, where it there 00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:53.859 and there's reports that you can pull it up on 00:28:53.859 --> 00:28:56.660 the internet as well. But there's a protocol 00:28:56.660 --> 00:29:00.680 on how when a person has been identified in this 00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:03.259 and what we're speaking about is the sex trafficking, 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:05.089 not technically the labor trafficking. trafficking 00:29:05.089 --> 00:29:08.819 part of it. But when a victim has been identified, 00:29:09.079 --> 00:29:12.180 there's a protocol that within 72 hours, you 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:14.619 know, the person has a medical exam, they have, 00:29:14.819 --> 00:29:17.839 they go through a variety of screenings and interviews, 00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:21.519 and then they, a team approach where they are 00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:23.920 determining where, what's the safety protocols 00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:26.619 for this person. So it's been, you know, I'm 00:29:26.619 --> 00:29:29.240 really proud to have been a part of that conversation. 00:29:29.579 --> 00:29:32.339 When I left LA Unified School District in 2016 00:29:32.339 --> 00:29:37.700 to join USC, My shift kind of changed a little 00:29:37.700 --> 00:29:40.200 bit because I was no longer in the school district, 00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:43.269 but now my shift is really. a little broader 00:29:43.269 --> 00:29:46.049 in that I'm able to support school districts 00:29:46.049 --> 00:29:49.789 in the nation around what can we do in the school 00:29:49.789 --> 00:29:54.390 system to have early identification, early prevention 00:29:54.390 --> 00:29:57.150 and intervention protocols. So that's kind of 00:29:57.150 --> 00:29:59.970 my work right now is really kind of honing in 00:29:59.970 --> 00:30:03.349 on schools because that is kind of the epicenter 00:30:03.349 --> 00:30:07.349 of where educational movements can happen is 00:30:07.349 --> 00:30:10.970 in the schools, which we. obviously has had its 00:30:10.970 --> 00:30:13.529 share of problems in the last couple of years. 00:30:14.029 --> 00:30:15.849 So hopefully that helps to answer a little bit 00:30:15.849 --> 00:30:18.319 of that. Oh, absolutely. Go ahead, Annalisa, 00:30:18.339 --> 00:30:21.539 go ahead. I think that we have to be able to 00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:23.799 look at this from all of these multiple fronts. 00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:25.779 And when Holly said, you know, looking at through 00:30:25.779 --> 00:30:28.380 this lens of like, what can we do like within 00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:32.000 large school organizations, districts and bigger 00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:35.039 is also like what whole industries have done, 00:30:35.140 --> 00:30:37.519 right? So what the hoteling industry is doing 00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:40.359 all the way from creating like everybody wants 00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:43.559 to take a selfie in their hotel room. And so 00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:46.880 we have some like great tech people that. created 00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.299 this database so that when a kid goes missing, 00:30:49.299 --> 00:30:52.720 they can match that picture up to all these different 00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:55.859 selfies that are being taken if they're registered 00:30:55.859 --> 00:30:58.819 in this database to say, oh, it's pretty likely 00:30:58.819 --> 00:31:02.140 they're on that hotel on Figueroa, blah, blah, 00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:05.099 blah. And the airline industries, now you go 00:31:05.099 --> 00:31:08.859 into the airports and in bathroom stalls, there's 00:31:08.859 --> 00:31:11.640 definitions of what human trafficking is for 00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:14.880 labor and for sex. And I think so at these big 00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:18.009 macro level. Right. Holly's talked very much 00:31:18.009 --> 00:31:20.829 about policy, but also looking at like, how do 00:31:20.829 --> 00:31:24.029 we get our systems engaged? And then I also think 00:31:24.029 --> 00:31:27.109 about it like in on these like micro levels, 00:31:27.490 --> 00:31:30.390 looking at some of the coolest things that I've 00:31:30.390 --> 00:31:32.529 ever heard in terms of combating traffic have 00:31:32.529 --> 00:31:36.519 been because Again, people feel empowered by 00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:39.440 being educated on what this is and on being able 00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:42.940 to see the signs and on listening to each other 00:31:42.940 --> 00:31:45.759 and kind of going with your gut, like being brave. 00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:48.480 You know, I know that sounds so cliche. Being 00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:53.779 brave is so important. I mean, this topic is 00:31:53.779 --> 00:31:57.200 so vast. I feel bad that we only have about a 00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:58.880 half an hour to talk because I feel like we have 00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:02.220 hardly gotten started and the time has run away. 00:32:02.859 --> 00:32:05.720 I think clearly there's a need for us to come 00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:08.140 and talk more about this because I think there's 00:32:08.140 --> 00:32:13.099 so many more nuanced pieces of this and the interventions 00:32:13.099 --> 00:32:15.980 are so challenging, but also the need for innovation 00:32:15.980 --> 00:32:18.799 is so great. I want to make sure that before 00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:21.720 we wrap up, give you each a moment for a minute 00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:23.920 or so if there's something else that you really 00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:26.799 feel like for our listeners that are maybe hearing 00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:29.200 about this topic from a social work angle for 00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:31.640 the first time, something that you want to share 00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:35.140 with them. Maybe I will turn first to Annalisa 00:32:35.140 --> 00:32:37.480 and then I'll turn to Holly. Annalisa, what would 00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:39.700 you like to leave our listeners thinking about? 00:32:39.660 --> 00:32:42.740 I think we're living in times of great fear and 00:32:42.740 --> 00:32:46.480 it's caused a lot of immobility like people not 00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.980 knowing what to do or if what they do matters. 00:32:49.500 --> 00:32:53.299 Having worked so closely with trafficking survivors 00:32:53.299 --> 00:32:56.819 and victims. I want to say that any little thing 00:32:56.819 --> 00:33:00.380 we do matters. And because you've given me permission, 00:33:00.619 --> 00:33:05.480 Eric, to say be brave, that it is not a cliche, 00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:08.059 I think, in this sense. I've seen five -year 00:33:08.059 --> 00:33:12.200 -old girls be able to identify labor trafficking 00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:16.059 in their neighborhoods and successfully help 00:33:16.059 --> 00:33:19.900 stop it. And I've seen fathers at slumber parties 00:33:19.900 --> 00:33:22.480 who are brave enough to say, why does your phone 00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:26.259 keep dinging? who is messaging you and then have 00:33:26.259 --> 00:33:29.900 been able to identify this is someone who is 00:33:29.900 --> 00:33:33.779 grooming these little girls. We have to be willing 00:33:33.779 --> 00:33:37.509 to be there for each other. and to speak up when 00:33:37.509 --> 00:33:42.789 we see something that we know in our gut is wrong. 00:33:43.029 --> 00:33:46.190 And I would rather be wrong about it than be 00:33:46.190 --> 00:33:48.710 right about it and not say anything. And so I 00:33:48.710 --> 00:33:51.769 think that hidden in plain sight that Holly has 00:33:51.769 --> 00:33:54.470 mentioned, that it is happening all around us, 00:33:54.650 --> 00:33:57.750 and to really challenge things that have been 00:33:57.750 --> 00:34:00.470 normalized that should not have been, are things 00:34:00.470 --> 00:34:03.710 that we have to do if we want to make a dent 00:34:03.710 --> 00:34:06.289 in these trafficking. that you started with. 00:34:06.430 --> 00:34:09.610 Beautiful. Thank you, Alisa. Holly? Yeah, thank 00:34:09.610 --> 00:34:13.150 you. Great question. And I think my first appeal 00:34:13.150 --> 00:34:16.570 is what I want is if someone is listening right 00:34:16.570 --> 00:34:19.949 now, who may be in the life right now, who is 00:34:19.949 --> 00:34:23.530 being trafficked, but may not have seen themselves 00:34:23.530 --> 00:34:26.590 or called themselves a victim, if you're listening 00:34:26.590 --> 00:34:28.750 right now, I want you to know that there's help, 00:34:28.969 --> 00:34:32.090 that this is not okay. There's people that care 00:34:32.090 --> 00:34:36.239 about you and that... there are resources. And 00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:40.579 so I just want also families to talk to your 00:34:40.579 --> 00:34:43.280 young children, talk to them, help them understand, 00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:45.500 communicate with them. Don't fear the internet. 00:34:45.940 --> 00:34:48.920 Don't fear schools and partnering with public 00:34:48.920 --> 00:34:52.090 schools. I think public schools are great. resource 00:34:52.090 --> 00:34:55.110 for families. As much as you feel like, oh, my 00:34:55.110 --> 00:34:57.409 voice doesn't matter, your voice matters. It 00:34:57.409 --> 00:34:59.389 matters when you look the other way. If you're 00:34:59.389 --> 00:35:02.869 on a train or a plane or wherever you are and 00:35:02.869 --> 00:35:05.789 you see something that feels a little weird to 00:35:05.789 --> 00:35:07.690 you that makes the hair on the back of your neck 00:35:07.690 --> 00:35:10.769 stand up, that's something that's telling you 00:35:10.769 --> 00:35:14.389 to pay attention. So even as simple as just speaking 00:35:14.389 --> 00:35:18.110 up and giving eye contact and kind of disrupting 00:35:18.110 --> 00:35:21.280 something that may be happening, who knows? And 00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:25.340 oftentimes these victims are uncovered or the 00:35:25.340 --> 00:35:28.000 victimization is uncovered because the simple 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:31.260 act of an ordinary human being who came into 00:35:31.260 --> 00:35:34.460 contact to say, hello, are you OK? Is there somebody 00:35:34.460 --> 00:35:37.059 I can call for you? So thank you, Eric. Thank 00:35:37.059 --> 00:35:39.920 you, Annalisa, for your time. And thank you, 00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:44.320 Holly. That was amazing. I feel embarrassed to 00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:46.599 try to even follow that up. But I will say it 00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:49.340 has been amazing to have the two of you here. 00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:54.739 speaking with so much passion and so much dedication. 00:35:55.190 --> 00:35:57.269 This is something that needs to be addressed 00:35:57.269 --> 00:35:58.869 and it needs to be addressed with bravery, as 00:35:58.869 --> 00:36:02.690 you say, Annalisa. And thank you for the, a little 00:36:02.690 --> 00:36:04.690 bit of a playbook for that bravery, Holly, there 00:36:04.690 --> 00:36:07.650 at the end. I want to thank you both so much 00:36:07.650 --> 00:36:11.110 for joining me today. And I will say to our listeners, 00:36:11.110 --> 00:36:13.190 if you want to learn more about our work around 00:36:13.190 --> 00:36:15.929 human trafficking, you can visit our school's 00:36:15.929 --> 00:36:20.510 website, dworakpeck.usc.edu. If you have questions 00:36:20.510 --> 00:36:23.489 for the guests or our show, or you want to support 00:36:23.489 --> 00:36:26.179 our transform - research and education programs, 00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:30.559 please email us at listenuppeople@usc.edu. 00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:34.940 And one more time, Holly, Annalisa, amazing to 00:36:34.940 --> 00:36:37.260 have you both here and thank you so much. Thank 00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:37.659 you.