WEBVTT 00:00:13.830 --> 00:00:16.449 Hello and welcome to Listen Up People, a podcast 00:00:16.449 --> 00:00:19.750 of the USC Suzanne Dworak-Peck School of Social 00:00:19.750 --> 00:00:22.230 Work. I'm Dr. Eric Rice, professor and associate 00:00:22.230 --> 00:00:24.809 dean for research. Today, we're going to be talking 00:00:24.809 --> 00:00:27.750 about sustainability and the impact of the environment 00:00:27.750 --> 00:00:29.969 on health and mental health. When many of us 00:00:29.969 --> 00:00:32.109 think about sustainability and environmental 00:00:32.109 --> 00:00:35.070 issues, our thoughts often go to green energy, 00:00:35.670 --> 00:00:38.390 deforestation, carbon emissions, or global climate 00:00:38.390 --> 00:00:40.590 change. But at the heart of social work is the 00:00:40.590 --> 00:00:43.289 study of the person and environment. how people's 00:00:43.289 --> 00:00:45.789 interactions with their social, cultural, and 00:00:45.789 --> 00:00:48.390 physical surrounding impact who they are and 00:00:48.390 --> 00:00:51.009 their health and well -being. Today, more than 00:00:51.009 --> 00:00:53.490 ever, that includes the disproportionate impact 00:00:53.490 --> 00:00:56.869 of climate -related disasters on pollution and 00:00:56.869 --> 00:00:59.609 the health and well -being of marginalized communities. 00:01:00.109 --> 00:01:02.630 My guests today are part of a faculty working 00:01:02.630 --> 00:01:04.930 group here at the USC Suzanne Dworak-Peck School 00:01:04.930 --> 00:01:07.430 of Social Work that aims to elevate education 00:01:07.430 --> 00:01:10.109 about environmental justice and its impact on 00:01:10.109 --> 00:01:11.980 social determinants of health. I'd like to welcome 00:01:11.980 --> 00:01:14.879 my colleagues, Dr. Shelly Zappas, who is associate 00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:17.219 teaching professor and director of the Masters 00:01:17.219 --> 00:01:20.459 of Science in Nursing program. And she's joined 00:01:20.459 --> 00:01:23.540 by my fellow colleague and member of the sustainability 00:01:23.540 --> 00:01:26.500 faculty group, senior lecturer Rick Newmyer, 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:28.879 who is co -developing curriculum around social 00:01:28.879 --> 00:01:31.280 determinants of health for the new Bachelor of 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:34.280 Social Work program launching in 2026. It's great 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:36.560 to have you both here today. And I guess I want 00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:39.180 to start off by asking you both a question that 00:01:39.180 --> 00:01:42.459 I've been asking my guests at the beginning of 00:01:42.459 --> 00:01:45.459 the episodes. How did you get involved in this 00:01:45.459 --> 00:01:47.900 particular topic? I mean, we can all as academics 00:01:47.900 --> 00:01:50.319 choose to work on almost anything that we want 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:53.060 all the time. And so maybe I'll turn to you first, 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:55.719 Shelly. So how did you get interested in the 00:01:55.719 --> 00:01:58.180 environment and its impact on health? I think 00:01:58.180 --> 00:02:04.040 that when I first sort of heard about... the 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:07.400 climate change from a health perspective, I was 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:09.580 a little bit confused. I was like, what does 00:02:09.580 --> 00:02:13.020 that have to do? But as you mentioned, the environments 00:02:13.020 --> 00:02:17.740 that we live in have such an impact on us in 00:02:17.740 --> 00:02:23.020 so many ways. When I really decided to sort of 00:02:23.020 --> 00:02:27.120 take a deep dive into this topic was actually, 00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:30.759 Over the summer, I was traveling with my family, 00:02:31.379 --> 00:02:35.860 and we were in the Galapagos Islands in Ecuador 00:02:35.860 --> 00:02:38.439 during the time of the earthquake in Russia. 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:43.979 And obviously, that set off a ripple effect of 00:02:43.979 --> 00:02:48.280 tsunami warnings in a lot of coastal regions. 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:53.159 And although the proximity between Russia and 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:59.039 Ecuador is quite large. We were on islands that 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:02.580 were somewhat vulnerable. So we ended up getting 00:03:02.580 --> 00:03:07.900 evacuated to just higher ground, right? That's 00:03:07.900 --> 00:03:12.389 sometimes all you can do. And the way... that 00:03:12.389 --> 00:03:15.990 most countries, even including the United States, 00:03:16.189 --> 00:03:19.069 evacuate people is through auditory signals, 00:03:19.530 --> 00:03:23.349 right? Sirens, even radio, things like that. 00:03:23.650 --> 00:03:29.969 And my daughter is deaf. And so they literally 00:03:29.969 --> 00:03:34.030 were just driving through the streets. blasting 00:03:34.030 --> 00:03:36.430 sirens and, you know, kind of giving those sort 00:03:36.430 --> 00:03:39.189 of warnings. And it got me really thinking about 00:03:39.189 --> 00:03:44.889 vulnerable populations and how severe weather 00:03:44.889 --> 00:03:47.610 events and climate change related environmental 00:03:47.610 --> 00:03:53.069 disasters have a disproportionate effect on vulnerable 00:03:53.550 --> 00:03:58.110 populations. And yeah, so it took me into a deep 00:03:58.110 --> 00:04:02.189 dive of looking particularly at people with disabilities, 00:04:02.490 --> 00:04:06.490 but the deaf and hard of hearing and the impact 00:04:06.490 --> 00:04:11.430 that climate related weather events have on their 00:04:11.430 --> 00:04:15.710 experiences with them, right? In terms of accessibility 00:04:15.710 --> 00:04:20.610 to warnings and evacuation practices and all 00:04:20.610 --> 00:04:23.939 of that sort of stuff. So it, really, I mean, 00:04:23.939 --> 00:04:25.819 it's always been something that I've been interested 00:04:25.819 --> 00:04:28.740 in, obviously, is, you know, the environment 00:04:28.740 --> 00:04:32.639 and climate change. But that really kind of put 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:36.319 it into more of a personal perspective and is 00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:38.300 something that I'm working on right now. Clearly, 00:04:38.540 --> 00:04:41.959 deeply personal impact for you in that regard. 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:44.160 Rick, how about you? How did you get interested 00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:48.899 in this topic? Most recently, it has been the 00:04:48.899 --> 00:04:52.120 Tijuana sewage crisis. So I live in San Diego 00:04:52.120 --> 00:04:55.310 County. in the southern part, literally 10 minutes 00:04:55.310 --> 00:04:58.870 from the border that we share with Mexico. And 00:04:58.870 --> 00:05:01.829 growing up raising four kids here, my kids love 00:05:01.829 --> 00:05:05.050 the water and particularly love the beach in 00:05:05.050 --> 00:05:07.529 Coronado. And I can't tell you how many times 00:05:07.529 --> 00:05:10.350 that we've gone to the beach and there's signs 00:05:10.350 --> 00:05:13.550 up all along the sand warning people to stay 00:05:13.550 --> 00:05:15.750 out of the water because it's contaminated with 00:05:15.750 --> 00:05:18.810 sewage. It's the Tijuana sewage crisis. It's 00:05:18.810 --> 00:05:20.889 one of the worst environmental crises in the 00:05:20.889 --> 00:05:23.170 history of the U S and it's been happening for 00:05:23.170 --> 00:05:26.410 over 90 years. It impacts me because it's, you 00:05:26.410 --> 00:05:29.310 know, can't take my kids to the beach, but it 00:05:29.310 --> 00:05:32.790 impacts other people who live close to that situation 00:05:32.790 --> 00:05:35.589 on both sides of the border, much more profoundly 00:05:35.589 --> 00:05:38.689 on a daily basis. And the more you dig into it, 00:05:38.730 --> 00:05:41.639 the more concerning it is. It's interesting to 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:44.079 hear that both of you are thinking about this 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:47.300 issue in relationship to your children. And I 00:05:47.300 --> 00:05:49.540 think that that's maybe something that I've heard 00:05:49.540 --> 00:05:52.079 in other conversations I've had with people recently 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:53.740 around climate change. I was actually having 00:05:53.740 --> 00:05:56.459 a conversation about the social impact of climate 00:05:56.459 --> 00:06:00.579 change at a dinner two nights ago. And again, 00:06:00.660 --> 00:06:03.220 the person I was having dinner with there. was 00:06:03.220 --> 00:06:06.579 discussing how really their experience with their 00:06:06.579 --> 00:06:10.139 children and not wanting to leave a planet to 00:06:10.139 --> 00:06:12.240 their children and eventually hopefully grandchildren 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:16.279 that is that is in such disrepair is I think 00:06:16.279 --> 00:06:19.220 something that's really hitting people of our 00:06:19.220 --> 00:06:21.620 generation in particular. I mean not to call 00:06:21.620 --> 00:06:23.800 you out and how old you all are. But I think 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:25.740 we're all kind of more or less the same middling 00:06:25.740 --> 00:06:28.459 ages these days. And some of us are older than 00:06:28.459 --> 00:06:32.040 others. But says the man with gray, a lot of 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:35.620 it. But I think that there's really is this interest 00:06:35.620 --> 00:06:39.019 and concern about the well -being of people, 00:06:39.040 --> 00:06:40.620 but also the way that we're seeing that in our 00:06:40.620 --> 00:06:43.439 own personal lives. I think I want to pick up 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:45.959 from that. a little bit, Shelley, you had mentioned 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:48.620 in your comments that you've been interested 00:06:48.620 --> 00:06:51.600 in environmental issues for a while, but I also 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:54.199 know that in your role as the chair of the nursing 00:06:54.199 --> 00:06:57.079 program that you are really interested in social 00:06:57.079 --> 00:06:59.560 determinants of health. And I guess I'm wondering. 00:07:00.060 --> 00:07:03.459 you know, how it is that you conceptualize this 00:07:03.459 --> 00:07:05.980 environmental climate change as part of that 00:07:05.980 --> 00:07:08.240 larger umbrella of social determinants of health. 00:07:08.339 --> 00:07:09.680 I mean, we can kind of explain to people what 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:12.980 even is social determinants of health. Some of 00:07:12.980 --> 00:07:14.939 our listeners may not be that familiar with the 00:07:14.939 --> 00:07:19.220 concept. Social workers have been sort of pioneers 00:07:19.220 --> 00:07:23.819 in understanding that the that there are a lot 00:07:23.819 --> 00:07:26.459 of social determinants that account for health 00:07:26.459 --> 00:07:29.660 and well -being. The statistics are something 00:07:29.660 --> 00:07:35.939 like 80 % of our health and well -being impact 00:07:35.939 --> 00:07:41.399 outcomes are related to social, not biomedical 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:46.250 determinants, right? where we live, the work 00:07:46.250 --> 00:07:49.430 that we have, even our financial situations, 00:07:50.529 --> 00:07:55.709 education all have a profound impact on our health 00:07:55.709 --> 00:08:00.569 and how we take care of ourselves and the impacts 00:08:00.569 --> 00:08:05.120 that present. So I think. In terms of climate 00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:07.199 change, I mean, we can look at it from a variety 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:10.379 of perspectives from everything from air pollution, 00:08:10.579 --> 00:08:13.639 increasing the risk of asthma and respiratory 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:17.939 illnesses, extreme heat, increasing the risk 00:08:17.939 --> 00:08:21.319 of acute kidney disease or acute kidney injury, 00:08:21.339 --> 00:08:27.689 I should say, and to wildfires and, you know, 00:08:27.810 --> 00:08:30.350 that, again, that impact on respiratory health, 00:08:30.550 --> 00:08:33.889 even I found this sort of interesting, even that 00:08:33.889 --> 00:08:37.389 there's an increased risk of skin conditions 00:08:37.389 --> 00:08:40.210 and skin cancer, right, with our ozone layered 00:08:40.210 --> 00:08:44.509 depletion. So there's a lot of, I think, in my 00:08:44.509 --> 00:08:48.750 opinion, impacts that are really not sort of 00:08:48.750 --> 00:08:52.509 thought about overtly that the environment and 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:55.960 and more so the destruction of the environment 00:08:55.960 --> 00:09:02.019 that have had on our, yeah, cancer rates, morbidity, 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:06.960 mortality, personal injury. But from a mental 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:10.659 health perspective, PTSD, mass trauma, depression, 00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:15.259 all of that sort of ripple effect to houses, 00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:20.220 income, all of that, and then also physical conditions. 00:09:21.620 --> 00:09:25.179 broad, it is varied, and it is very real, you 00:09:25.179 --> 00:09:28.580 know? Yeah. Yeah. And I think one of the issues 00:09:28.580 --> 00:09:30.259 that I think is also really interesting is the 00:09:30.259 --> 00:09:33.240 way that that impact is not necessarily evenly 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:36.139 distributed across our society, right? And maybe, 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:37.740 Rick, I mean, you had sort of mentioned this 00:09:37.740 --> 00:09:40.399 a little bit when you were talking about the 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:42.460 Coronado, you know, your experience in Coronado 00:09:42.460 --> 00:09:46.179 with the Tijuana sewage issues. I mean, these 00:09:46.179 --> 00:09:49.779 environmental impacts aren't how should I put 00:09:49.779 --> 00:09:53.600 it, evenly distributed across population. So 00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:56.860 can you maybe help our listeners understand a 00:09:56.860 --> 00:09:58.440 little bit better about what it means to have 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:01.159 this disproportionate impact? These are things 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:04.159 that happen, you know, environmental issues happen 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:08.019 all around the world. And what you often see, 00:10:08.220 --> 00:10:12.019 whether it's entire countries or cities or neighborhoods 00:10:12.019 --> 00:10:16.250 or communities, is they're often impacting people 00:10:16.250 --> 00:10:18.950 who are living in poverty or people who are under 00:10:18.950 --> 00:10:22.769 resourced, people who are more affected economically. 00:10:23.669 --> 00:10:26.250 And sometimes that's because that's where projects 00:10:26.250 --> 00:10:29.929 are built, whether it's factories or sewage treatment 00:10:29.929 --> 00:10:34.549 or just different types of things that add to 00:10:34.549 --> 00:10:38.029 or deal with these toxins and pollutants and 00:10:38.029 --> 00:10:42.149 things like that. They don't tend to go... in 00:10:42.149 --> 00:10:44.250 the more well -to -do neighborhoods. They tend 00:10:44.250 --> 00:10:47.309 to go into the neighborhoods of people who have 00:10:47.309 --> 00:10:50.470 less means and less ability to sort of push back 00:10:50.470 --> 00:10:52.850 on getting those things, you know, built in their 00:10:52.850 --> 00:10:55.870 communities. And then in terms of just who can 00:10:55.870 --> 00:10:59.990 afford to live where, sometimes folks, it's when 00:10:59.990 --> 00:11:02.549 you're closer to some of these impacts, it's 00:11:02.549 --> 00:11:05.509 cheaper to live. That might just also be where 00:11:05.509 --> 00:11:08.049 people's family and history and, you know, extended 00:11:08.049 --> 00:11:10.710 families live and their support systems. And 00:11:10.710 --> 00:11:13.649 so it's not like they can just get up and move 00:11:13.649 --> 00:11:16.220 someplace else to get away from these things. 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:19.139 And so definitely has a disproportionate impact 00:11:19.139 --> 00:11:22.580 on people with less money and needs. Yeah. Yeah. 00:11:22.820 --> 00:11:25.740 And I think one thing that this conversation 00:11:25.740 --> 00:11:28.639 is also making me want to dive into a little 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:31.759 bit more around Shelley that you mentioned is 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:34.740 there are disproportionate impacts that are related 00:11:34.740 --> 00:11:36.940 to economic well -being, right? But there's also 00:11:36.940 --> 00:11:39.299 disproportionate impacts that are related to 00:11:39.299 --> 00:11:41.419 other issues such as you were describing, you 00:11:41.419 --> 00:11:43.620 know, your daughter having hearing impairment 00:11:43.620 --> 00:11:46.740 issues. And so what else are you thinking about 00:11:46.740 --> 00:11:49.840 in your work in terms of these disparities, you 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:51.539 know, aside from the economic disparities that 00:11:51.539 --> 00:11:54.080 Rick just mentioned? It's a little hard to separate 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:57.750 sometimes, right? Because I do think that people 00:11:57.750 --> 00:12:01.870 with disabilities are oftentimes marginalized 00:12:01.870 --> 00:12:05.570 and therefore do receive, you know, less education 00:12:05.570 --> 00:12:10.250 and less income and things like that. And that's 00:12:10.250 --> 00:12:13.029 actually something that I have also seen reflected 00:12:13.029 --> 00:12:17.559 in the literature, even the fact that again, 00:12:17.779 --> 00:12:21.019 as I said, a lot of times, emergency alerts and 00:12:21.019 --> 00:12:24.279 warnings and things like that are very auditory 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:29.399 for forward. And so therefore are not necessarily 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:32.059 better. They're not very accessible to the entire 00:12:32.059 --> 00:12:36.100 population. But one thing that I found is is 00:12:36.100 --> 00:12:40.220 sort of interesting, too, is that even people 00:12:40.220 --> 00:12:45.399 that are deaf are heterogeneous, right? In that 00:12:45.500 --> 00:12:48.580 Some of them don't know how to sign. Some of 00:12:48.580 --> 00:12:51.179 them do know how to sign. There's home signs 00:12:51.179 --> 00:12:54.820 and things like that. There's actually quite 00:12:54.820 --> 00:12:57.399 a few studies that I'm looking at currently out 00:12:57.399 --> 00:13:01.500 of Vietnam. And just looking at that, I think 00:13:01.500 --> 00:13:05.480 Vietnam is a very vulnerable place in terms of 00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:10.179 disasters and climate. So a lot of people from 00:13:10.179 --> 00:13:14.899 urban versus rural situations might not have 00:13:14.830 --> 00:13:19.850 even the same sort of knowledge of sign language 00:13:19.850 --> 00:13:23.250 or literacy levels in terms of that. It's just 00:13:23.250 --> 00:13:27.090 this very, very complicated sort of situation 00:13:27.090 --> 00:13:31.370 when you look at it because it is hard to extract 00:13:31.370 --> 00:13:35.710 vulnerability in sort of this singular way, right? 00:13:36.169 --> 00:13:41.470 People are vulnerable in multiple ways and they 00:13:41.470 --> 00:13:45.230 all sort of impact one another. But, you know, 00:13:45.269 --> 00:13:47.929 from a policy perspective, I think that people 00:13:47.929 --> 00:13:52.710 with disabilities are often left out of the governmental 00:13:52.710 --> 00:13:56.429 sort of policies and procedures related to disaster 00:13:56.429 --> 00:13:58.710 release or emergency preparedness. And I think 00:13:58.710 --> 00:14:02.809 that that is also impacting our vulnerable populations, 00:14:02.929 --> 00:14:05.149 not just people with disabilities, but obviously 00:14:05.149 --> 00:14:08.649 a variety of subsets of the population, right, 00:14:09.090 --> 00:14:11.669 are just sort of left off the table and not even 00:14:11.669 --> 00:14:14.019 kind of considered. when we're thinking about 00:14:14.019 --> 00:14:16.600 climate change or when we're thinking about disaster 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:20.000 relief and just this eco -racism that exists, 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:27.519 there is just this big gap for health. literacy 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:31.159 and economic reasons, et cetera. Yeah. I mean, 00:14:31.340 --> 00:14:33.960 it reminds me of a few weeks ago, I was watching 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:36.980 a documentary about the impact of Hurricane Katrina 00:14:36.980 --> 00:14:40.019 on New Orleans, right? And there's a stark example 00:14:40.019 --> 00:14:44.200 of class and race issues with this proportionate 00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:48.179 impact. And it also strikes me that It's not 00:14:48.179 --> 00:14:51.500 only that there are these disparities that make 00:14:51.500 --> 00:14:54.440 people more vulnerable to the negative impacts, 00:14:54.580 --> 00:14:58.159 but our ability to help people through formal 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:01.159 systems cope with the impact of these disasters 00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:03.980 also has an ongoing disparities as well, right? 00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:06.840 So I think, you know, Rick, I know you're a social 00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:09.360 worker by training, right? And so, you know, 00:15:09.539 --> 00:15:12.620 there's also a disparity in terms of who has 00:15:12.620 --> 00:15:15.629 access to good mental health care. that would 00:15:15.629 --> 00:15:17.549 help people to deal with these things afterwards. 00:15:17.669 --> 00:15:19.330 And I'm wondering if this is also something that 00:15:19.330 --> 00:15:24.070 you've been thinking about in terms of the downstream 00:15:24.070 --> 00:15:26.490 interventions that one does to try to help people 00:15:26.490 --> 00:15:30.070 deal with these crises. Yeah, access to mental 00:15:30.070 --> 00:15:32.470 health care is an interesting thing because as 00:15:32.470 --> 00:15:36.070 we look at the health care system in the United 00:15:36.070 --> 00:15:40.279 States, It's not just about having access to 00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:43.279 doctors and things like that and being able to 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:47.519 afford preventative treatment and treatment for 00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:50.139 different conditions that you might have. But 00:15:50.139 --> 00:15:53.299 even if you have good health care, it often does 00:15:53.299 --> 00:15:56.580 not include very much mental health care. And 00:15:56.580 --> 00:16:00.220 so a lot of folks that, you know, they'll go, 00:16:00.220 --> 00:16:03.019 they have great insurance, but if they want to 00:16:03.019 --> 00:16:05.419 see a mental health provider, they might get 00:16:05.419 --> 00:16:08.720 a few visits and then they're looking at out 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:11.779 of pocket or some, you know, serious sliding 00:16:11.779 --> 00:16:16.039 scale, you know, something beyond maybe getting 00:16:16.039 --> 00:16:20.419 them through a crisis or an event. And sometimes 00:16:20.419 --> 00:16:24.879 people have ongoing needs where it's really helpful. 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:27.779 to be able to talk to someone on a regular basis 00:16:27.779 --> 00:16:30.500 and not have to wait three months till your next 00:16:30.500 --> 00:16:32.860 appointment or worry about how you're gonna be 00:16:32.860 --> 00:16:36.519 able to afford treatment. And so that's definitely 00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:40.440 a big concern is the mental health aspect of 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:42.759 that. Well, sure, and I would imagine people 00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:45.360 who live in these communities that are really 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:48.679 impacted, especially by pollution or regular 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:51.440 occurrences of natural disasters, it's not. like 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:54.179 that's a one -time thing that goes away after 00:16:54.179 --> 00:16:57.000 three visits, right? You're going to have to, 00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:00.039 you know, these are ongoing stressors in a person's 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:03.500 life. I want to shift our conversation just a 00:17:03.500 --> 00:17:05.380 little bit because I know that the two of you 00:17:05.380 --> 00:17:08.599 are working on developing some new curriculum 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:12.460 around determinants, social determinants of health 00:17:12.460 --> 00:17:15.039 with this environmental justice as a component 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:20.009 of this for the BSW program. So I Wondering, 00:17:20.829 --> 00:17:23.609 perhaps, Rick, you want to start us off describing 00:17:23.609 --> 00:17:26.210 what is this program that you're working on? 00:17:26.289 --> 00:17:27.990 And then maybe, Shelley, you can fill in some 00:17:27.990 --> 00:17:29.589 of the gaps, because I'm sure that there's way 00:17:29.589 --> 00:17:32.269 more than just a couple of sentences to be said 00:17:32.269 --> 00:17:34.230 about developing a brand new program for a brand 00:17:34.230 --> 00:17:38.170 new degree. What we're looking at is a course 00:17:38.170 --> 00:17:40.990 on social determinants of health, structural 00:17:40.990 --> 00:17:43.630 and social determinants of health, and issue 00:17:43.630 --> 00:17:47.420 of health equity. in the United States specifically. 00:17:47.740 --> 00:17:50.119 Now, certainly it's a global phenomenon, but 00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:52.359 it definitely, because of the particulars of 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:55.339 our healthcare system, environment, and history, 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.599 there's a lot to focus on just here in the United 00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:01.359 States. And one of the things as we've been working 00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:04.980 on this and just working in this field over the 00:18:04.980 --> 00:18:08.440 years is seeing all the research that indicates 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:11.660 how much social determinants of health, it accounts 00:18:11.660 --> 00:18:16.950 for over half of population health outcomes and 00:18:16.950 --> 00:18:20.430 is the single greatest contributor to individual 00:18:20.430 --> 00:18:24.289 health, even more than genetics and personal 00:18:24.289 --> 00:18:27.250 behavior and all of that, which is a really interesting 00:18:27.250 --> 00:18:29.809 thing because it's here in the US, it's we're 00:18:29.809 --> 00:18:32.369 about we're rugged individualists, pull yourself 00:18:32.369 --> 00:18:34.789 up by your bootstraps, personal behavior and 00:18:34.789 --> 00:18:38.009 responsibility. All those things are important, 00:18:38.009 --> 00:18:41.769 but it really doesn't get to the truth of how 00:18:41.769 --> 00:18:44.210 much we're connected to one another. And, you 00:18:44.210 --> 00:18:46.230 know, earlier in the conversation talked about, 00:18:46.230 --> 00:18:48.029 you know, needing to, you know, what we're leaving 00:18:48.029 --> 00:18:50.509 to our children, grandchildren, all of that, 00:18:50.769 --> 00:18:52.829 but just also the people who were alive at this 00:18:52.829 --> 00:18:57.150 moment with us. And so making sure that people 00:18:57.150 --> 00:19:01.009 have access to nutritious foods, physical activity, 00:19:01.450 --> 00:19:05.190 clean air and water, safe neighborhoods. All 00:19:05.190 --> 00:19:09.009 those kinds of things, it's not just for their 00:19:09.009 --> 00:19:11.589 sake, it's for all of our sakes because of the 00:19:11.589 --> 00:19:14.569 way that we're all connected. Shelly, how does 00:19:14.569 --> 00:19:17.170 the environmental piece of this that we've been 00:19:17.170 --> 00:19:19.849 talking about, how does that play into this curriculum 00:19:19.849 --> 00:19:22.730 that you're developing? Yeah. So as Rick mentioned, 00:19:22.849 --> 00:19:29.789 we're working on a course about social determinants, 00:19:30.589 --> 00:19:33.730 health disparities, right? Health disparities 00:19:33.730 --> 00:19:38.430 obviously can look at a variety of different 00:19:38.430 --> 00:19:43.250 topics, everything from race, gender. disability 00:19:43.250 --> 00:19:48.049 status, et cetera, but it also is tightly entwined 00:19:48.049 --> 00:19:53.049 with the the climate in which we live in. As 00:19:53.049 --> 00:19:57.349 Rick was saying, droughts can impact our food 00:19:57.349 --> 00:20:01.009 security or flooding can impact our food security 00:20:01.009 --> 00:20:04.789 or environmental disasters can impact the pollution 00:20:04.789 --> 00:20:08.190 and the air quality that we live in. But what 00:20:08.190 --> 00:20:11.490 I really liked about what Rick said and what 00:20:11.490 --> 00:20:15.730 I think has sort of I think been lost at least 00:20:15.730 --> 00:20:20.069 in the the US sort of political sort of system 00:20:20.069 --> 00:20:24.970 is that we all are so interconnected and how 00:20:24.970 --> 00:20:29.890 I. am doing is going to have an impact on how 00:20:29.890 --> 00:20:32.390 you are doing, which is going to have an impact 00:20:32.390 --> 00:20:35.789 on how somebody else on the other side of the 00:20:35.789 --> 00:20:39.170 world is doing. And so I think that it is our 00:20:39.170 --> 00:20:43.269 social responsibility to be proper stewards of 00:20:43.269 --> 00:20:47.329 the environment. but also be good and kind to 00:20:47.329 --> 00:20:51.390 one another and care about all of our health 00:20:51.390 --> 00:20:54.369 and wellbeing, right? And so I think that that 00:20:54.369 --> 00:20:58.730 is, our course isn't just about all of the problems, 00:20:58.990 --> 00:21:03.200 right? It's not just about. oh, health disparities, 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.000 you know, social determinants of health, they're 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.180 impacting us with X, Y, and Z, but it's also 00:21:09.180 --> 00:21:11.579 looking at it from sort of a solution -driven 00:21:11.579 --> 00:21:14.799 perspective, which again, I think that social 00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:19.819 works do very well. And the Suzanne Dvorak Peck 00:21:19.819 --> 00:21:23.000 School of Social Work is really all about is 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:26.019 how, then what are we gonna do about it? And 00:21:26.019 --> 00:21:32.269 how can we boost ourselves and one another and 00:21:32.269 --> 00:21:37.960 really have a better impact on us. from a micro, 00:21:38.019 --> 00:21:40.819 macro, and meso perspective. I can't help but 00:21:40.819 --> 00:21:43.140 make a quick little comment, which is I'm a guy 00:21:43.140 --> 00:21:45.539 who's been studying a lot about social networks 00:21:45.539 --> 00:21:48.579 and social network theory. And I do social network 00:21:48.579 --> 00:21:50.519 analysis. And I do these studies, especially 00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:52.259 with youth experiencing homelessness around social 00:21:52.259 --> 00:21:54.900 networks. And one of my favorite books is a book 00:21:54.900 --> 00:21:58.400 called Connected by Chris Stakis and Fowler. 00:21:58.519 --> 00:22:01.640 And it's a book written by academics, but for 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:03.740 a popular press. And one of the things they talk 00:22:03.740 --> 00:22:06.700 about is that Our happiness and well -being is 00:22:06.700 --> 00:22:09.400 not just a function of our own personal happiness 00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:12.380 and well -being, but our friends impact us, but 00:22:12.380 --> 00:22:15.440 our friends' friends' happiness impacts us, and 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:18.619 our friends' friends' friends' happiness impacts 00:22:18.619 --> 00:22:20.000 us. And not only that, our friends' friends' 00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:22.579 friends' friends' happiness impacts us. So it's 00:22:22.579 --> 00:22:24.660 not just the people that we don't know, but the 00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:28.119 people that our friends don't know impacts us. 00:22:28.380 --> 00:22:31.319 And so we are part of this interconnected web 00:22:31.319 --> 00:22:36.279 that... we, whether we want to, as rugged individuals 00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:38.500 in America acknowledge it or not, the science 00:22:38.500 --> 00:22:42.900 is very clear that we impact one another profoundly. 00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:47.359 And I love that you are taking in that notion 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:50.319 of the interconnected communities in which we 00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:53.660 live and how those are a big part of the well 00:22:53.660 --> 00:22:57.740 -being and health that we experience in our personal 00:22:57.740 --> 00:22:59.799 lives, which I think is something that people 00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:02.369 don't... often think about, although it's a profound 00:23:02.369 --> 00:23:04.650 part of our experience. I think that we think 00:23:04.650 --> 00:23:07.410 a lot about our friends and family and how important 00:23:07.410 --> 00:23:08.910 they are to us. But I don't know that we always 00:23:08.910 --> 00:23:12.869 think about how deeply enmeshed in a web of humanity 00:23:12.869 --> 00:23:15.190 and the well -being of those others around us. 00:23:15.309 --> 00:23:16.589 So it's great to hear you're doing that. And 00:23:16.589 --> 00:23:19.589 I also love, and I would love to hear, Rick, 00:23:19.609 --> 00:23:20.890 your thoughts on this as well, too, something 00:23:20.890 --> 00:23:22.430 that you said at the very end there, Shelly, 00:23:22.509 --> 00:23:25.049 which was that in social work and nursing as 00:23:25.049 --> 00:23:27.609 well, too, and certainly in our school, a focus 00:23:27.609 --> 00:23:31.150 on solution, not just identifying problems, but 00:23:31.150 --> 00:23:33.609 then what do we do about this? And so I'm curious 00:23:33.609 --> 00:23:38.990 to know, are there particular perspectives or 00:23:38.990 --> 00:23:43.250 interventions or thoughts that you all are thinking 00:23:43.250 --> 00:23:45.049 about infusing into this curriculum that are 00:23:45.049 --> 00:23:47.710 about those solutions? Yeah, I mean, one of the 00:23:47.710 --> 00:23:51.190 things. to do is to look at cases where people 00:23:51.190 --> 00:23:54.730 have been successful in taking action and that 00:23:54.730 --> 00:23:57.630 can be throughout our history in the U .S. going 00:23:57.630 --> 00:24:01.029 back to Jane Addams and organizing in Chicago 00:24:01.029 --> 00:24:04.109 around the trash and trash pickup and all of 00:24:04.109 --> 00:24:06.430 that. It's like social work is so glamorous. 00:24:08.589 --> 00:24:13.309 To more recent examples of that, and then also 00:24:13.309 --> 00:24:15.549 around the world. We haven't cornered the market 00:24:15.549 --> 00:24:19.289 on good ideas in the US alone. There's things 00:24:19.289 --> 00:24:21.490 that happen around the world. And so looking 00:24:21.490 --> 00:24:24.289 at what governments have done around the world 00:24:24.289 --> 00:24:26.910 to take care of people, communities, organizations 00:24:26.910 --> 00:24:32.660 coming together. So helping students to learn 00:24:32.660 --> 00:24:35.160 some of these different cases and pull the learnings 00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:38.400 and see how they can apply those in small and 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:40.880 large ways. And that's the thing with this is 00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:44.200 that not everything we do is going to, there's 00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:46.500 no silver bullet that's going to solve this problem, 00:24:46.700 --> 00:24:51.240 but we can hopefully chip away at it. We'll have 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:54.220 small victories, hopefully some large victories 00:24:54.220 --> 00:24:57.880 at different points. But just the act of taking 00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:04.200 action is good for us, is good for our mental 00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:06.819 health. The fact that we're doing something and 00:25:06.819 --> 00:25:09.539 not just sort of doom scrolling and seeing all 00:25:09.539 --> 00:25:12.299 the impacts and things, but getting out and doing 00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:14.500 something, joining with other people who care 00:25:14.500 --> 00:25:17.890 about the same things. is immensely good for 00:25:17.890 --> 00:25:21.589 our mental health and keeps us going, keeps you 00:25:21.589 --> 00:25:23.609 going to do, you know, keep doing this work. 00:25:23.750 --> 00:25:26.670 That's great. That's great. Before we go, I wanted 00:25:26.670 --> 00:25:29.789 to give you each an opportunity to have some 00:25:29.789 --> 00:25:33.349 closing thoughts and maybe if you have something 00:25:33.349 --> 00:25:36.180 that you think you'd like to share about. what 00:25:36.180 --> 00:25:38.059 you maybe wish that people better understood 00:25:38.059 --> 00:25:40.460 about this problem, or if you have something 00:25:40.460 --> 00:25:43.019 else that you think is a thought that you haven't 00:25:43.019 --> 00:25:44.900 had an opportunity to share with our listeners 00:25:44.900 --> 00:25:46.700 yet, I'd love to give you an opportunity. And 00:25:46.700 --> 00:25:49.960 maybe Shelley, I'll turn to you first and then 00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:52.460 turn things back to Rick. But is there anything 00:25:52.460 --> 00:25:54.279 that you want to leave our listeners with as 00:25:54.279 --> 00:25:57.930 we are closing out for the day? This is a little 00:25:57.930 --> 00:26:01.009 bit trite, but I think as we're talking about 00:26:01.009 --> 00:26:06.170 connectedness and the impact that we can have 00:26:06.170 --> 00:26:10.500 on each other and the environment is. yeah, let's 00:26:10.500 --> 00:26:13.640 just be kinder to one another, to ourselves, 00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:16.519 to the environment and, and just be conscious 00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:20.660 of that because it can have a very profound impact 00:26:20.660 --> 00:26:23.380 if you kind of look at it from a broader level, 00:26:23.460 --> 00:26:26.900 something that we consider just maybe a little 00:26:26.900 --> 00:26:32.000 bit simple. It might not necessarily have a simple 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:35.920 impact, right? It can definitely have a very 00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:38.980 profound impact. And I do think that humanity, 00:26:39.700 --> 00:26:42.960 has been a little bit lost. And one thing that 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:45.900 is quite easy for us to do is just be a little 00:26:45.900 --> 00:26:50.720 bit softer and kinder to ourselves, each other 00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.859 and the environment. I love that. I love that. 00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:58.019 Rick? Yeah, I think along those lines, there's 00:26:58.019 --> 00:27:01.180 this phrase that pops up in memes and things, 00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:03.400 which is like, I don't know how to explain to 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:05.079 you that you should care about other people. 00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:10.539 And sometimes it's people very kind of cavalierly 00:27:10.539 --> 00:27:14.220 like they enjoy or they make fun of people who 00:27:14.220 --> 00:27:18.859 do care about other people. And that it's some 00:27:18.859 --> 00:27:21.740 type of a weakness or a deficit or something. 00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:26.119 And that's just so bananas to me. And, you know, 00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:27.960 and again, it doesn't matter. You don't have 00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:31.559 to be a parent. You don't have to have children, 00:27:31.859 --> 00:27:34.079 grandchildren, you know, whatever it is. But 00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:37.420 just as a human being, having some empathy and 00:27:37.420 --> 00:27:40.319 some care and thinking about how much you're 00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:43.000 using of resources and what's being available 00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:45.039 for people and just how you're, if you're leaving 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:47.940 things better, all that kind of stuff, it just 00:27:47.940 --> 00:27:51.119 makes sense. And it's just, I can't understand 00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:53.099 kind of going the other direction. You don't 00:27:53.099 --> 00:27:55.259 have to be a social worker. to care about other 00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:57.960 people and to live in a way in which you leave 00:27:57.960 --> 00:28:00.420 things a little bit better. Just little bits 00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:04.119 of kindness. Doesn't matter what your job is. 00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:07.160 You will do a better job if you care about other 00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:09.660 people. You will make your workplace a better 00:28:09.660 --> 00:28:11.880 place, your home a better place, your community 00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:15.640 a better place. Almost no better way to demonstrate 00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:18.720 that than the things that we do around the environment. 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:22.539 What a positive end note in our current climate 00:28:22.539 --> 00:28:26.240 of climate change and, and political climate 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:27.960 and et cetera. You know, I think having some, 00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:32.019 some optimism about our ability to enact some 00:28:32.019 --> 00:28:36.740 positive change in our local spaces and the impact 00:28:36.740 --> 00:28:39.490 that that has is it ripples out. that it can 00:28:39.490 --> 00:28:42.430 be profound is a really great place to leave 00:28:42.430 --> 00:28:44.569 our audience when they're thinking about issues 00:28:44.569 --> 00:28:48.430 that can sometimes feel so large and so almost 00:28:48.430 --> 00:28:51.069 impossibly large at the level of the planet, 00:28:51.069 --> 00:28:53.589 you know, and to remind folks that, yeah, you 00:28:53.589 --> 00:28:56.690 can make a difference in your own life and the 00:28:56.690 --> 00:28:58.569 lives of the people around you and what an important 00:28:58.569 --> 00:29:01.730 part that has to do with other people on the 00:29:01.730 --> 00:29:05.009 planet. And so thank you, Shelley. Thank you, 00:29:05.009 --> 00:29:08.339 Rick. What a great conversation. I will say to 00:29:08.339 --> 00:29:10.079 our listeners that if you want to learn more 00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:12.660 about the environmental impact on health and 00:29:12.660 --> 00:29:16.259 the new BSW program that includes social determinants 00:29:16.259 --> 00:29:19.140 of health, as well as the research going on here 00:29:19.140 --> 00:29:22.019 at the USC Suzanne Dworak -Peck School of Social 00:29:22.019 --> 00:29:26.000 Work, you can visit our school's website at 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.529 dworakpeck.usc.edu. And if you have questions for our 00:29:30.529 --> 00:29:33.109 guests on the show, or you want to support the 00:29:33.109 --> 00:29:36.230 transformative educational programs and research 00:29:36.230 --> 00:29:38.849 that happens here at our school, you can email 00:29:38.849 --> 00:29:43.470 us at listenuppeople@usc.edu. And let me 00:29:43.470 --> 00:29:44.890 just say one more time to both of you. Thank 00:29:44.890 --> 00:29:47.990 you so much for such an enlightening and inspiring 00:29:47.990 --> 00:29:50.710 conversation today. Thank you, Eric. This is 00:29:50.710 --> 00:29:52.109 great. Thanks for having us.