WEBVTT 00:00:13.760 --> 00:00:16.579 Hello and welcome to Listen Up People, a podcast 00:00:16.579 --> 00:00:19.280 of the USC Suzanne Dworak -Peck School of Social 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:21.940 Work. I'm Dr. Eric Rice, professor and associate 00:00:21.940 --> 00:00:24.559 dean for research. Today we are going to explore 00:00:24.559 --> 00:00:27.760 an unusual topic, the intersection of social 00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:30.320 work and law enforcement. Social work and police 00:00:30.320 --> 00:00:32.500 work have more overlap than is commonly thought. 00:00:32.789 --> 00:00:35.549 Approximately 80 % of calls to police are social 00:00:35.549 --> 00:00:38.609 service related. Police are also frontline responders 00:00:38.609 --> 00:00:40.609 addressing the situations involving intimate 00:00:40.609 --> 00:00:43.289 partner violence, people experiencing homelessness, 00:00:44.090 --> 00:00:47.549 substance use or youth related crime, and often 00:00:47.549 --> 00:00:50.270 find themselves striving to deescalate a disturbance 00:00:50.270 --> 00:00:52.829 or connect people with social services. My guests 00:00:52.829 --> 00:00:55.929 today are the founders of a first of its kind 00:00:55.929 --> 00:00:58.770 social work and public safety program here at 00:00:58.770 --> 00:01:01.979 USC. It's a capacity building partnership that 00:01:01.979 --> 00:01:04.700 merges social work with law enforcement. Entering 00:01:04.700 --> 00:01:07.400 its 12th year, the program provides a working 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:09.719 partnership and professional development pipeline 00:01:09.719 --> 00:01:12.760 between social work, local law enforcement agencies, 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:15.420 and public safety and community -based organizations. 00:01:15.859 --> 00:01:19.219 I'd like to welcome today my guest, Dr. Rosemary 00:01:19.219 --> 00:01:21.959 Alamo, teaching professor of practicum education, 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:25.299 whose 28 -year career has spanned settings as 00:01:25.299 --> 00:01:28.420 diverse as healthcare schools. Public Safety 00:01:28.420 --> 00:01:32.140 and Public Child Welfare, and Dr. Rick Ornelas, 00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:34.959 Associate Teaching Professor of Practicum Education, 00:01:35.140 --> 00:01:37.939 who has over 35 years of law enforcement experience 00:01:37.939 --> 00:01:40.560 that he integrates with his social work training 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:43.599 to help reimagine and implement effective public 00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:46.799 safety strategies. It is great to have you both. 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:49.780 Welcome. Thank you. Thank you, Eric. Oh, yeah. 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:51.700 Thanks. It's so great to have you both. This 00:01:51.700 --> 00:01:55.170 is such a great and in many ways out of the box 00:01:55.170 --> 00:01:57.750 topic for social workers for us to talk about 00:01:57.750 --> 00:02:00.609 today. And with that in mind, I want to start 00:02:00.609 --> 00:02:02.230 with, I guess, something that's maybe a little 00:02:02.230 --> 00:02:04.870 more personal, which is why did you both decide 00:02:04.870 --> 00:02:07.590 to get involved in this topic? So maybe I'll 00:02:07.590 --> 00:02:11.409 turn to you, Rosemary, first. What started your 00:02:11.409 --> 00:02:12.830 interest in this? And then I'll move to Rick. 00:02:13.110 --> 00:02:16.689 Sure. Thank you again, Eric, for having us. So 00:02:16.689 --> 00:02:19.469 basically, my transition into public safety really 00:02:19.469 --> 00:02:22.650 grew organically. from what I was witnessing 00:02:22.650 --> 00:02:24.810 throughout the traditional social work settings 00:02:24.810 --> 00:02:28.150 that I was in. There was a lot of unmet need, 00:02:28.789 --> 00:02:32.990 which looked at having individuals, families, 00:02:33.469 --> 00:02:38.110 and children, and so forth, encountering law 00:02:38.110 --> 00:02:42.009 enforcement through the various crisis that I 00:02:42.009 --> 00:02:43.590 would observe, whether it was in the schools 00:02:43.590 --> 00:02:47.629 and healthcare. And many times, unfortunately, 00:02:48.409 --> 00:02:52.419 they'd end up escalating. Although I could see 00:02:52.419 --> 00:02:56.139 the genuine interest and desire to help from 00:02:56.139 --> 00:02:58.900 the law enforcement side, I could tell and even 00:02:58.900 --> 00:03:00.879 after conversations that they would acknowledge 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:04.500 that they didn't have the skills to address the 00:03:04.500 --> 00:03:07.659 mental health needs that were arising in those 00:03:07.659 --> 00:03:11.560 or during those interactions. So, at that point, 00:03:11.560 --> 00:03:14.990 you know, and. Again, it's been years and years 00:03:14.990 --> 00:03:19.509 of doing this work that realizing how important 00:03:19.509 --> 00:03:22.389 and how beneficial it would be if we would have 00:03:22.389 --> 00:03:24.909 social work and public safety working together. 00:03:25.150 --> 00:03:28.830 So that again, we would help support with, you 00:03:28.830 --> 00:03:31.009 know, the de -escalation mental health needs 00:03:31.009 --> 00:03:34.430 resources and really allow law enforcement to 00:03:34.430 --> 00:03:37.430 do their work as far as enforcement. And at the 00:03:37.430 --> 00:03:40.789 same time, be able to provide a way for both 00:03:40.789 --> 00:03:43.080 of us, both of our disciplines. to learn from 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:47.400 each other, right? We would learn together and 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:49.580 collaboratively to better serve the communities. 00:03:50.259 --> 00:03:53.000 And Ricky, from your biography, you come from 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:55.060 a different starting point, but I'm curious how 00:03:55.060 --> 00:03:57.199 you came to this work. Yeah, thank you for the 00:03:57.199 --> 00:04:02.620 question. I've now been in law enforcement over 00:04:02.620 --> 00:04:07.139 35 years. I served 21 years as a law enforcement 00:04:07.139 --> 00:04:09.379 sergeant for the Los Angeles school police department, 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:13.860 where I worked in various capacities. And while 00:04:13.860 --> 00:04:17.399 I was working as a sergeant, much like Rosemary, 00:04:17.660 --> 00:04:24.939 I noticed that 21st century urban policing requires 00:04:24.939 --> 00:04:29.310 more than just law policy. and the traditional 00:04:29.310 --> 00:04:33.610 law enforcement methods. And law enforcement 00:04:33.610 --> 00:04:37.490 alone was not designed to meet the challenges 00:04:37.490 --> 00:04:41.730 of the 21st century. For example, behavioral 00:04:41.730 --> 00:04:45.850 health, homelessness, substance use, and community 00:04:45.850 --> 00:04:48.589 trauma. So at the time, I decided to go back 00:04:48.589 --> 00:04:52.529 to school. And what fit for me was a master of 00:04:52.529 --> 00:04:57.439 social work program. So I attended USC. at the 00:04:57.439 --> 00:04:59.980 time the school of social work and obtained my 00:04:59.980 --> 00:05:02.439 master's degree. And then Rosemary and I have 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:05.480 been working together now for over 20 years. 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:12.879 And it was together that we saw the gaps in traditional 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:15.800 law enforcement methods and saw the opportunity 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:20.399 for us to collaborate together, not just to address 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:24.480 the needs of law enforcement in supporting their 00:05:24.649 --> 00:05:28.629 their work and providing services to the communities 00:05:28.629 --> 00:05:32.290 that they serve, but also support in changing 00:05:32.290 --> 00:05:34.689 and re -imagining the way the law enforcement 00:05:34.689 --> 00:05:38.709 does its work. So around professional development, 00:05:39.470 --> 00:05:43.269 trauma -informed practices, and supporting them 00:05:43.269 --> 00:05:46.509 with evidence -based interventions. That's great. 00:05:46.610 --> 00:05:48.750 I mean, it seems like the two of you really, 00:05:48.769 --> 00:05:51.370 coming from different perspectives, really saw 00:05:51.370 --> 00:05:54.879 a shared set of needs. So with that in mind, 00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:56.920 what, what is this program that you've created? 00:05:56.920 --> 00:05:58.540 Can you, I mean, it's been around for a long 00:05:58.540 --> 00:06:00.240 time, but I'm going to guess that most of the 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:02.639 listeners of this podcast are going to be scratching 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:04.939 their heads about what is, okay, I get it now 00:06:04.939 --> 00:06:07.240 that there's this need. What are you doing to 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:10.540 fill that gap? Well, you know, Eric, I can tell 00:06:10.540 --> 00:06:12.740 you, so let's start with the law enforcement 00:06:12.740 --> 00:06:15.560 training with the public safety training in California. 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:20.079 So in the police academies currently cadets and 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:24.050 or recruits receive about 15 hours of. behavioral 00:06:24.050 --> 00:06:28.170 health training. Okay. Uh, and then the training 00:06:28.170 --> 00:06:32.250 officers receive about three hours of behavioral 00:06:32.250 --> 00:06:35.430 health training. And then now it's moved to about 00:06:35.430 --> 00:06:39.430 four hours. So one, we see the gap there, right? 00:06:39.610 --> 00:06:43.230 Just, just in terms of, uh, addressing some of 00:06:43.230 --> 00:06:46.110 the needs that one law enforcement requires and 00:06:46.110 --> 00:06:50.509 then the needs of the community. We also saw 00:06:50.509 --> 00:06:54.639 the opportunity for our students to truly practice 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:57.480 integrative social work practice. Our students 00:06:57.480 --> 00:07:00.920 work across not just populations, settings, and 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:04.040 systems to support law enforcement in a number 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:06.899 of capacities, right? So we're talking about 00:07:06.899 --> 00:07:11.199 direct services, with families, with youth, also 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:15.420 engaged in program development, program implementation, 00:07:16.100 --> 00:07:19.959 evaluation, supporting families through group 00:07:19.959 --> 00:07:24.060 services as well. And I'll pause there. Oh, sure, 00:07:24.060 --> 00:07:25.180 sure. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot too, but 00:07:25.180 --> 00:07:28.519 I was going to say, Rosemary, are our MSW students 00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:32.860 also involved in this capacity? Absolutely. And 00:07:32.860 --> 00:07:36.399 so basically what happens is we are involved 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:39.220 with public safety or law enforcement across 00:07:39.220 --> 00:07:43.040 the country. So we the word has spread. And so 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:46.259 the way it happens is the law enforcement agency 00:07:46.259 --> 00:07:49.240 or public safety will contact us and say, we've 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:51.319 heard about the work that you're doing, right? 00:07:51.779 --> 00:07:56.139 And so what we do, we sit down with their command 00:07:56.139 --> 00:08:00.060 staff, administrators, and help customize the 00:08:00.060 --> 00:08:05.180 services and integrating our MSW interns into 00:08:05.180 --> 00:08:08.259 those services based on the needs that they have 00:08:08.259 --> 00:08:12.779 identified their communities to have. and communities 00:08:12.779 --> 00:08:16.600 that basically, because maybe they're undocumented, 00:08:16.779 --> 00:08:19.339 maybe because they don't have transportation 00:08:19.339 --> 00:08:22.579 or access to the resources, then what happens, 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:25.920 you know, they don't go and don't, you know, 00:08:26.060 --> 00:08:28.759 access those resources. And so therefore, our 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:31.459 interns are then critical in providing these 00:08:31.459 --> 00:08:34.580 services. So we customize the program, the services 00:08:34.580 --> 00:08:38.330 for each agency. And we incorporate our interns 00:08:38.330 --> 00:08:41.210 again, as Rick mentioned, across the three levels 00:08:41.210 --> 00:08:45.889 of practice. So ensuring that the youth families, 00:08:46.129 --> 00:08:48.049 individuals are getting those services while 00:08:48.049 --> 00:08:51.909 simultaneously working and supporting the officers 00:08:51.909 --> 00:08:55.090 so that they themselves will be in a better place, 00:08:55.309 --> 00:08:57.730 not only individually, but in a better place 00:08:57.730 --> 00:09:00.490 to be able to support the communities that they 00:09:00.490 --> 00:09:02.690 are there to support and serve. So do you then 00:09:02.690 --> 00:09:06.169 have? actual placements of our MSW students who 00:09:06.169 --> 00:09:09.330 are then working in some ways side by side with 00:09:09.330 --> 00:09:11.370 law enforcement? Is that part of how that happens? 00:09:12.250 --> 00:09:15.669 Yes, absolutely. So what happens is that we have 00:09:15.669 --> 00:09:19.750 students that are actually working side by side 00:09:19.750 --> 00:09:23.750 with the officer or public safety to respond 00:09:23.750 --> 00:09:27.409 to out in the community. So it could be whether 00:09:27.409 --> 00:09:30.620 they're responding to referrals. mental health 00:09:30.620 --> 00:09:33.820 crisis related or they're providing follow -up 00:09:33.820 --> 00:09:37.240 to calls that officers have made and to be able 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.360 to provide services. They have supported victims 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:44.379 that are coming in from domestic violence. The 00:09:44.379 --> 00:09:47.539 officers will go ahead and you know conduct that 00:09:47.539 --> 00:09:50.419 service call and then the social work intern 00:09:50.419 --> 00:09:53.320 will follow up and meet with that individual. 00:09:53.669 --> 00:09:56.470 and provide assess and provide the resources 00:09:56.470 --> 00:09:59.169 and services needed to include even going with 00:09:59.169 --> 00:10:02.389 them to obtain a restraining order if needed 00:10:02.389 --> 00:10:06.549 and walk them through that process. So it really 00:10:06.549 --> 00:10:11.269 varies and it will see them side by side. We 00:10:11.269 --> 00:10:15.649 see them being the the using also like the alternate 00:10:15.649 --> 00:10:19.710 response where if there is no safety concerns 00:10:19.710 --> 00:10:22.990 that social work intern will take the lead. I 00:10:22.990 --> 00:10:26.690 see, I see. So very, you know, it fluctuates 00:10:26.690 --> 00:10:29.470 based on the need and what the community is presenting 00:10:29.470 --> 00:10:32.070 with. Rick, did you want to add to that? You 00:10:32.070 --> 00:10:33.210 look like you've got something on the tip of 00:10:33.210 --> 00:10:36.289 your tongue. Well, thank you. I was, you know, 00:10:36.409 --> 00:10:39.029 our students not only provide the services that 00:10:39.029 --> 00:10:42.470 Rosemary mentioned, but they also develop essential 00:10:42.470 --> 00:10:45.730 knowledge, skills and abilities, secondary collaboration 00:10:45.730 --> 00:10:49.110 between social work, public safety and the legal 00:10:49.110 --> 00:10:53.620 systems. Our Our students provide crisis intervention 00:10:53.620 --> 00:10:56.620 strategies, trauma -informed care, and mental 00:10:56.620 --> 00:11:01.840 health services to include advocacy, case management, 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:07.220 and policy analysis. Additional skills that our 00:11:07.220 --> 00:11:11.100 students develop is crisis intervention and de 00:11:11.100 --> 00:11:14.679 -escalation and learning how to navigate the 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:21.730 legal system. And students build on their strengths 00:11:21.730 --> 00:11:25.769 to develop professional relationships within 00:11:25.769 --> 00:11:29.950 diverse communities and stakeholders. They also 00:11:29.950 --> 00:11:33.269 receive hands -on practice in real world settings. 00:11:33.590 --> 00:11:35.210 Yeah, no, that makes sense. I was going to say 00:11:35.210 --> 00:11:38.370 when you were mentioning about the... some some 00:11:38.370 --> 00:11:39.850 phrases that I think are probably more familiar 00:11:39.850 --> 00:11:42.009 to people that think about social work more proven 00:11:42.009 --> 00:11:47.049 like trauma informed lenses to to taking problems. 00:11:47.389 --> 00:11:51.009 I mean, how are those approaches received in 00:11:51.009 --> 00:11:52.909 the public safety settings that these students 00:11:52.909 --> 00:11:56.389 are being placed in? I have to say they are they 00:11:56.389 --> 00:11:59.169 have been so open and receptive. at least based 00:11:59.169 --> 00:12:02.070 on our experiences. Many of them, I can tell 00:12:02.070 --> 00:12:05.090 you in numerous occasions where to include a 00:12:05.090 --> 00:12:08.009 lieutenant that said, you know what, after hanging 00:12:08.009 --> 00:12:12.129 out with these interns, I'm now using reflections. 00:12:12.450 --> 00:12:17.269 I'm now using affirmations and actually identifying 00:12:17.269 --> 00:12:20.370 the particular intervention using the language. 00:12:21.190 --> 00:12:23.990 And he's like, after, I don't know, over 30 years, 00:12:23.990 --> 00:12:27.129 I never thought that I would, you know, be doing 00:12:27.129 --> 00:12:31.230 this, right? And having officers also that have 00:12:31.230 --> 00:12:33.950 partnered with the social workers say, man, boy, 00:12:34.129 --> 00:12:36.690 does this social work intern really, you know, 00:12:36.830 --> 00:12:39.210 she helps me see things from a different perspective. 00:12:39.590 --> 00:12:41.509 Yeah. Or, you know, I never thought about it 00:12:41.509 --> 00:12:44.029 that way. I would imagine also, though, that 00:12:44.029 --> 00:12:47.690 the social work students themselves. Yes. Transformed 00:12:47.690 --> 00:12:51.360 by this experience, right? Yes, I have a hard 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:53.899 time imagining that you have a lot of social 00:12:53.899 --> 00:12:56.379 work students who might say this is my first 00:12:56.379 --> 00:12:58.799 choice of an internship to be placed with public 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:01.000 safety, but I would imagine it's a pretty powerful 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:03.100 transformative experience. I mean, what is the 00:13:03.100 --> 00:13:05.740 reaction been from those students? I mean, I 00:13:05.740 --> 00:13:07.519 don't know, really, this is something you want 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:09.899 to you want to answer for a second. Maybe go 00:13:09.899 --> 00:13:11.779 also with Rosemary with this as well, too. But 00:13:11.779 --> 00:13:14.120 I'm really curious how our students respond to 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:15.639 this. Well, you know, I can tell you that we've 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:17.889 been fortunate that the students that that we 00:13:17.889 --> 00:13:20.629 have within, that collaborate with our agency 00:13:20.629 --> 00:13:23.149 partners are doing it because they are committed 00:13:23.149 --> 00:13:26.330 and dedicated to supporting the legal system. 00:13:26.549 --> 00:13:29.190 We've now had over 200 students come through 00:13:29.190 --> 00:13:34.909 our program since its inception. And while some 00:13:34.909 --> 00:13:39.269 of the early on questions or confusion both from 00:13:39.269 --> 00:13:42.250 law enforcement and from the MSW students is, 00:13:42.549 --> 00:13:46.070 how do we engage within this culture, within 00:13:46.070 --> 00:13:49.330 this system? that might look very different, 00:13:49.450 --> 00:13:52.429 right? While both are committed to providing 00:13:52.429 --> 00:13:55.830 services, problem solving and building trust 00:13:55.830 --> 00:14:00.409 with the community. And to our surprise, our 00:14:00.409 --> 00:14:03.779 MSW interns have not only had an impact. but 00:14:03.779 --> 00:14:08.220 they also have a new and true appreciation for 00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:11.240 the challenges and pressures that law enforcement 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:15.720 faces, right? Earlier, you mentioned that 80 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:18.460 % of the calls for service for law enforcement 00:14:18.460 --> 00:14:21.879 are social services related. And then we also 00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:24.460 talked about the gap in the training, right? 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:29.100 Only 15 hours during the academy and then four 00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:32.320 hours post -academy. So clearly there's a gap 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:34.919 there between the training that law enforcement 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:39.200 receives and the calls for service. So our MSW 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:42.960 students now learned the challenges that the 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.639 legal system and or law enforcement faces due 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:49.080 to those gaps. And so one, there's a true appreciation 00:14:49.370 --> 00:14:53.710 They also see that there's a human side to law 00:14:53.710 --> 00:14:57.909 enforcement. Right. And then they also have a 00:14:57.909 --> 00:15:00.629 further understanding and appreciation how we 00:15:00.629 --> 00:15:03.769 can bring both of those disciplines and professions 00:15:03.769 --> 00:15:08.730 together so that they get the best of each talents 00:15:08.730 --> 00:15:12.789 and gifts. It's such an interesting, as I said 00:15:12.789 --> 00:15:16.190 earlier, out of the box partnership, right? I 00:15:16.190 --> 00:15:19.809 think, as you said, Rick, both are social servants, 00:15:20.110 --> 00:15:23.429 both are groups of people who are there dedicated 00:15:23.429 --> 00:15:25.970 to service. Right. I mean, this is the mantras 00:15:25.970 --> 00:15:29.509 of police departments and social workers is very 00:15:29.509 --> 00:15:32.850 much about service and yet from a very different 00:15:32.850 --> 00:15:37.210 cultural angle. Right. And and I guess with that 00:15:37.210 --> 00:15:39.679 in mind. What have been some of the surprises 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:42.320 for for you all in this? I mean, I know maybe 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:44.519 some might even think like, oh, well, obviously 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:45.940 everything's a surprise. But I mean, there's 00:15:45.940 --> 00:15:48.299 got to be something that in particular struck 00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:50.620 you as this. This was this was a learning moment 00:15:50.620 --> 00:15:52.840 that I wasn't that I wasn't I didn't see coming 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:55.039 in coming into this. Maybe I turned to you, Rosemary, 00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:56.960 first and then to you. Yes. Love to hear your 00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:59.759 reflections on this. Yes. Well, I have to say, 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:03.399 you know, we we meet with all the students that 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:05.720 go through the program. So we go ahead and pre 00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:08.879 screen and to be able to determine the goodness 00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:11.320 of fit before sending off for their interviews 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:14.639 with the agencies and Sometimes I have to say 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:17.559 there's you know, there's either that excitement 00:16:17.559 --> 00:16:20.919 or you know what? I'm not sure but I'm willing 00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:26.299 to try it right and The surprise comes in when 00:16:26.299 --> 00:16:29.559 that student says, you know, I was coming in 00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:34.700 with all these preconceived notions These misperceptions 00:16:34.700 --> 00:16:38.159 of what? how things are within law enforcement. 00:16:38.659 --> 00:16:42.039 And I realized that it wasn't like that, right? 00:16:42.620 --> 00:16:47.480 Realizing that there is a human being on both 00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:51.600 sides and also along with the fact that many 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:54.200 of these social workers, because of this experience 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:57.460 that these interns have had and the great job 00:16:57.460 --> 00:17:00.320 they have done, that they have been recruited 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:04.599 and hired by these agencies, which was, you know, 00:17:04.700 --> 00:17:06.700 initially like, wow, yeah, that would be great. 00:17:06.980 --> 00:17:09.720 But then ultimately, it became like a reality, 00:17:09.940 --> 00:17:13.160 like a dream come true. And so that's been like 00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:17.059 phenomenal to see that indeed, the outcome, you 00:17:17.059 --> 00:17:18.799 know, couldn't be more positive. Here it is, 00:17:18.940 --> 00:17:22.900 a social work intern coming in and really doing 00:17:22.900 --> 00:17:27.099 such a phenomenal job that now that agency says, 00:17:27.140 --> 00:17:29.160 you know, I don't know how we did it without 00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:31.859 you. We need you. and they advocate and they 00:17:31.859 --> 00:17:34.759 bring them on board. And hence now you have somebody 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:37.279 influencing the system inside. So you actually 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:39.400 have a social worker working in a public safety 00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:43.279 or police organization. Exactly. Wow. Either 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:46.500 with, again, side by side or an alternate alternate 00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:50.240 response programs. So they're spread out. That's 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:52.519 great. That's great. Rick, what surprised you 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:54.359 as you got into this work? Well, I can tell you 00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:57.900 that from my experience in my over 20 years with 00:17:57.900 --> 00:18:00.180 the L .A. School Police Department. Sure. The 00:18:00.180 --> 00:18:02.319 only interaction that I had with social workers 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:05.640 at the time was when there was a crisis. So now 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:09.339 what is striking to me is now how law enforcement 00:18:09.339 --> 00:18:14.400 has moved to embracing and appreciating social 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:18.259 workers or working alongside social workers or 00:18:18.259 --> 00:18:20.779 having social workers within their organization. 00:18:21.299 --> 00:18:23.200 You know, something else that I find striking 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:27.559 is the growth and the influence that our program 00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:31.359 has now evolved to. What started as a pilot program 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:35.200 with one law enforcement agency over 10 years 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:40.279 ago has now evolved and expanded throughout California, 00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:44.779 Nevada, and Washington. And now our students 00:18:44.779 --> 00:18:48.809 are now working. alongside various professionals, 00:18:49.250 --> 00:18:53.509 including attorneys, judges, educators, firefighters, 00:18:53.890 --> 00:18:56.849 and other mental health providers. You know, 00:18:56.970 --> 00:19:01.410 this expansion just reaffirms to us the importance 00:19:01.410 --> 00:19:05.589 of embedding social work across the legal system 00:19:05.589 --> 00:19:11.670 and how it truly benefits the community because 00:19:11.670 --> 00:19:15.509 we are looking at the community holistically. 00:19:15.740 --> 00:19:17.880 as you were saying about the growth of this program, 00:19:18.019 --> 00:19:20.660 makes me think about another thing that I wanted 00:19:20.660 --> 00:19:25.500 to touch on before we wrap up, which is the reputation 00:19:25.500 --> 00:19:29.440 and really the visibility that the two of you 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:33.799 have had as a result of this within Los Angeles. 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:37.339 And I know that you were recently both appointed 00:19:37.339 --> 00:19:40.880 to this advisory board for the LA Metro transition 00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:43.539 team for the development of a transit community 00:19:43.539 --> 00:19:46.980 public safety department. Can you tell me a little 00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:50.079 bit about what this initiative is and how it's 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:52.460 related to what you did? I mean, maybe Rosemary, 00:19:52.660 --> 00:19:54.619 I'll turn to you first just for a second and 00:19:54.619 --> 00:19:58.579 sort of say like, what is this opportunity? And 00:19:58.579 --> 00:20:00.099 maybe, you know, Rick, you can talk a little 00:20:00.099 --> 00:20:02.920 bit about how it came out, how it spurred from 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:05.940 the or what its connection. to our program has 00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:10.259 been. Sure. It's so exciting to be able to speak 00:20:10.259 --> 00:20:14.200 to it because here it is, LA Metro. They used 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:16.900 to have a police department public safety program 00:20:16.900 --> 00:20:21.119 within and however, they no longer did. And so 00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:25.880 now here they are. working on identifying what 00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:29.380 are the best practices, looking at the community 00:20:29.380 --> 00:20:31.960 as a whole, looking at it holistically as well, 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:36.319 and bringing in an array of experts from the 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:41.519 community that will be able to have contributions 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:45.359 in how that public safety department is going 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:48.980 to look. And basically being able to utilize 00:20:48.980 --> 00:20:53.420 all of our experiences. to be able to ultimately 00:20:53.420 --> 00:20:56.559 have officers and a public safety department 00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:00.539 that's going to be the most responsive, trauma 00:21:00.539 --> 00:21:03.779 -informed department that I think we've ever 00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:08.119 seen, and having people like ourselves be able 00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:11.619 to provide feedback, be able to inform how, again, 00:21:12.099 --> 00:21:16.599 policies are developed, and knowing that ultimately, 00:21:16.900 --> 00:21:20.900 at the end of the day, each rider that gets on 00:21:20.900 --> 00:21:25.240 these trains is going to have an opportunity 00:21:25.240 --> 00:21:29.839 should the need arise to interact with officers, 00:21:30.259 --> 00:21:33.299 individuals that are trained and that are ready 00:21:33.299 --> 00:21:36.880 to support in a time of crisis and need. That's 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:39.220 that's great. And I guess, Rick, to turn to you 00:21:39.220 --> 00:21:42.940 around this topic, was this opportunity because 00:21:42.940 --> 00:21:44.420 of the work that you all have been doing? I mean, 00:21:44.539 --> 00:21:46.519 I would assume it would be. But I mean, was there 00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:48.740 what was the connection? How did you how did 00:21:48.740 --> 00:21:50.940 you all end up in this in this advisory capacity? 00:21:51.339 --> 00:21:53.700 Because we've been doing this for over 10 years. 00:21:54.000 --> 00:22:00.539 And we continuously receive opportunities or 00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:03.980 and or universities, law enforcement. or other 00:22:03.980 --> 00:22:08.019 agencies across the nation reach out to us for 00:22:08.019 --> 00:22:10.559 consult and insight. Like you've been doing this 00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:15.339 for some time. What are the ingredients? What 00:22:15.339 --> 00:22:19.880 is it that works? One, how do you start a program 00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:26.759 like yours? What are the nuts and bolts of building 00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:30.119 out something like this? So as a result of that, 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:33.720 the LA Metro reached out to us because they are 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:37.039 looking to stand up their own public safety department. 00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:42.099 We have served on the advisory group to support 00:22:42.099 --> 00:22:46.799 in not only building out the agency from the 00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:50.700 ground up, but also to provide expertise and 00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:54.700 insight around mental health services and policy 00:22:54.700 --> 00:22:59.059 and program development as it relates to supporting 00:22:59.059 --> 00:23:02.160 people that might have behavioral health issues 00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:06.359 and or are unhoused, right? Yeah, yeah. So yeah, 00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:10.779 we have consulted with organizations as far east 00:23:10.779 --> 00:23:15.700 as Baltimore to include overseas in York, England. 00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:21.019 We have noticed that over time, this work specifically 00:23:21.019 --> 00:23:27.140 has grown internationally. It must be so satisfying. 00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:30.940 for the two of you to not only have successfully 00:23:30.940 --> 00:23:35.599 created a program like this, but to be receiving 00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:39.240 these requests for consultation and to be able 00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:43.819 to be really recognized for what a challenging 00:23:43.819 --> 00:23:47.889 area this work is and how important it is. I 00:23:47.889 --> 00:23:50.210 really wish, actually, I wish that we had a lot 00:23:50.210 --> 00:23:52.029 more time because I'm sure that there's some 00:23:52.029 --> 00:23:56.430 amazing more stories about the challenges about 00:23:56.430 --> 00:23:59.390 how this was all built out. I had a whole nother 00:23:59.390 --> 00:24:01.329 set of questions that just popped into my mind 00:24:01.329 --> 00:24:03.529 as Rick, you were telling me about this, about, 00:24:03.650 --> 00:24:05.650 wow, let's talk about how do you create something 00:24:05.650 --> 00:24:07.130 like this? Because I'm sure there are probably 00:24:07.130 --> 00:24:08.210 going to be people out there that want to know, 00:24:08.390 --> 00:24:11.670 but this will have to be saved for our next podcast 00:24:11.670 --> 00:24:15.509 because we're running short on time. But I really, 00:24:15.509 --> 00:24:17.230 really want to thank the two of you. to you for 00:24:17.230 --> 00:24:20.450 doing amazing work, really groundbreaking work. 00:24:21.089 --> 00:24:24.049 transformative work for both social work students 00:24:24.049 --> 00:24:28.529 as well as for law enforcement. And I guess I 00:24:28.529 --> 00:24:31.589 want to just give you one last opportunity before 00:24:31.589 --> 00:24:34.089 I close things out to say, is there anything 00:24:34.089 --> 00:24:36.329 else that you would like our listeners to know 00:24:36.329 --> 00:24:38.730 about the work that you're doing or the programs 00:24:38.730 --> 00:24:42.029 that you're involved in as we close out for the 00:24:42.029 --> 00:24:44.130 day? Well, thank you so much, Eric, again, for 00:24:44.130 --> 00:24:46.390 having us here. It's been an honor to be able 00:24:46.390 --> 00:24:50.819 to share basically some of our work here. All 00:24:50.819 --> 00:24:54.160 I can say is that every day we're looking at 00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:58.299 ways of how to remove barriers for our communities 00:24:58.299 --> 00:25:01.720 to be able to access resources and be able to 00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:05.000 interact with individuals such as law enforcement 00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:08.059 and across the legal system in ways that will 00:25:08.059 --> 00:25:11.380 be respectful, that they'll be treated with the 00:25:11.380 --> 00:25:15.079 dignity and respect that they deserve. And anything 00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:17.519 that we can do from our end to ensure that happens, 00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:20.220 we are doing it and we're looking at it every 00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:22.740 day. That's beautiful. Rick, last thoughts from 00:25:22.740 --> 00:25:26.380 you? No, thank you. And for me, it's is that 00:25:26.380 --> 00:25:30.359 no single profession can solve today's complex 00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:35.279 challenges. And it takes a multidisciplinary 00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:40.039 interprofessional collaboration. to support not 00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:42.960 only the legal system, but the communities that 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:46.920 they serve as well. And so social work brings 00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:49.319 trauma -informed practice, behavioral health 00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:53.000 knowledge, and commitment to social justice. 00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:56.640 So it's bringing both those strengths together 00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:03.000 that we get a holistic response and that truly 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:07.339 serve individuals, families, and uh and communities 00:26:07.339 --> 00:26:11.779 inspiring inspiring inspiring just amazing work 00:26:11.779 --> 00:26:14.200 that the the two of you have done i want to thank 00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:16.480 you both rosemary and rick for joining us on 00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:19.660 such a great discussion if you the listener wants 00:26:19.660 --> 00:26:22.559 to learn more about the school of social work 00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.140 and the social work and public safety program 00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:28.099 at usc you can visit our school's website which 00:26:28.099 --> 00:26:33.799 is dworakpeck .usc .edu social work public safety 00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:35.980 And if you have questions for the guests on our 00:26:35.980 --> 00:26:38.279 show or you want to support the transformative 00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:41.839 research and programs like this one, you can 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:46.880 email us at ListenUpPeople at USC .edu. And one 00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:49.579 more time, thank you both so much, not only for 00:26:49.579 --> 00:26:51.799 being here with me, but for doing the work that 00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:53.700 you do. Thank you, Eric. Thank you.