WEBVTT 00:00:14.349 --> 00:00:17.649 Hello and welcome to Listen Up People, a podcast 00:00:17.649 --> 00:00:20.269 of the USC Suzanne Dworak-Peck School of Social 00:00:20.269 --> 00:00:23.089 Work. I'm Dr. Eric Rice, professor and associate 00:00:23.089 --> 00:00:25.989 dean for research. Today we're going to delve 00:00:25.989 --> 00:00:29.550 into issues related to the experiences of foster 00:00:29.550 --> 00:00:31.890 youth and specifically youth transitioning out 00:00:31.890 --> 00:00:34.369 of the foster care system. It's important to 00:00:34.369 --> 00:00:38.049 recognize that every year 600 ,000 children spend 00:00:38.049 --> 00:00:41.090 some time in foster care. And today my guests 00:00:41.090 --> 00:00:44.020 are to folks who are deeply involved in this 00:00:44.020 --> 00:00:47.719 work. I'd like to welcome Dr. Julie Cederbaum, 00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:51.179 Associate Professor and Social Worker, whose 00:00:51.179 --> 00:00:53.840 expertise lies in issues around children and 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:56.420 families with a particular focus on the impact 00:00:56.420 --> 00:00:59.159 of childhood adversity and family processes on 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:03.060 the well -being of youth, and Sara Jimenez McSweyn, 00:01:03.240 --> 00:01:05.319 who is a professor in the School of Social Work 00:01:05.319 --> 00:01:07.620 and also a social worker, who has focused on 00:01:07.620 --> 00:01:10.219 the relationship between youth and family ties, 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:12.980 and who serves as the coordinator for the Trojan 00:01:12.980 --> 00:01:15.640 Guardian Scholars Program, which is committed 00:01:15.640 --> 00:01:18.219 to supporting current and former foster youth 00:01:18.219 --> 00:01:21.260 who attend USC. It's great to have you both here. 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:24.939 Before I start diving into the topic in real 00:01:24.939 --> 00:01:27.140 detail, I want to ask something a little more 00:01:27.140 --> 00:01:30.739 personal, which is Was there a moment in your 00:01:30.739 --> 00:01:34.780 career that was really pivotal for you in terms 00:01:34.780 --> 00:01:37.920 of getting involved in this issue of foster youth 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:39.799 or former foster youth that you're doing this 00:01:39.799 --> 00:01:42.439 work with? Maybe I'll turn to Sarah first. You 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:43.700 know, I don't know that there was a particular 00:01:43.700 --> 00:01:47.379 moment, Eric. But I do remember that the first 00:01:47.379 --> 00:01:52.019 job I ever had was working in an outpatient community 00:01:52.019 --> 00:01:55.019 mental health clinic here in LA County. And it 00:01:55.019 --> 00:01:56.959 just so happened that the community I was working 00:01:56.959 --> 00:02:01.900 in was in a part of the county where many, many 00:02:01.900 --> 00:02:05.840 foster families were located. So by default, 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:08.680 I started working with a lot of foster youth 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:12.219 who were in foster placement. And I just was 00:02:12.219 --> 00:02:16.759 really fascinated by the nature of the relational 00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:20.419 dynamics between them and their foster parents 00:02:20.419 --> 00:02:23.919 and their feelings and experiences related to 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:27.939 their families of origin and the complex dynamics 00:02:27.939 --> 00:02:30.539 that played out and I'm a You know, I'm trained 00:02:30.539 --> 00:02:32.639 as a clinician. So, you know, we I was looking 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:34.759 at attachment theory, etc. And I realized this 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:38.259 is much more complex You know then I was taught 00:02:38.259 --> 00:02:40.340 in the school of social work because you know 00:02:40.340 --> 00:02:42.919 here when I was a student here was a nuclear 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:45.680 family the traditional and this was like just 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:48.400 so many different variations to experience and 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:51.939 so I just got very interested in that whole process 00:02:51.939 --> 00:02:57.050 you know what happens to to kids who live in 00:02:57.050 --> 00:02:59.930 foster homes. What is that like? And what happens 00:02:59.930 --> 00:03:03.389 to the relationships they have with other foster 00:03:03.389 --> 00:03:05.430 kids, with their parents? What happens when they 00:03:05.430 --> 00:03:07.889 go to high school? You know, what stories do 00:03:07.889 --> 00:03:10.250 they tell about their lives? And so that's how 00:03:10.250 --> 00:03:13.069 I first became interested in all of this. Oh, 00:03:13.069 --> 00:03:14.629 that's great. That's great. Julie, what about 00:03:14.629 --> 00:03:17.889 you? Yeah, and I think my experiences mirror 00:03:17.889 --> 00:03:20.789 Sara's a bit. I was working post MSW at a housing 00:03:20.789 --> 00:03:26.159 program also in Northeast L .A. and I was not 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:30.020 specifically focused on foster care, child welfare 00:03:30.020 --> 00:03:32.580 system, but so many of the families who live 00:03:32.580 --> 00:03:35.659 there had interface with the child welfare system. 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:39.139 And so it wasn't possible really to practice 00:03:39.139 --> 00:03:41.840 as a social worker if you were doing family work 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:45.939 and not have connections or kind of work that 00:03:45.939 --> 00:03:48.560 was integrated with child welfare workers. And 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:51.599 so sometimes that was the need to remove children. 00:03:51.620 --> 00:03:54.020 Sometimes that was about reunification. And so 00:03:54.020 --> 00:03:56.610 I I think that I came to learn pretty quickly. 00:03:57.009 --> 00:03:58.930 The child welfare system for families with a 00:03:58.930 --> 00:04:02.289 lot of adversity and distress tends to be a system 00:04:02.289 --> 00:04:06.139 they interface with at some point. and that there 00:04:06.139 --> 00:04:09.300 wasn't clear connection or work that was being 00:04:09.300 --> 00:04:12.319 done once kids returned. What had their experience 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:15.860 been? How were they meant to integrate when they 00:04:15.860 --> 00:04:17.439 were taken out of the home into wherever they 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:19.399 were going? How were they meant to reintegrate 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:22.459 after they returned? And then over time, that 00:04:22.459 --> 00:04:25.519 family work as a researcher led to a pretty strong 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:28.040 relationship with Children's Institute here in 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:30.639 Los Angeles, as well as Optimist Youth Homes 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:33.779 and Family Services, both who serve youth transitioning 00:04:33.779 --> 00:04:37.000 out of foster care, and it became very apparent 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:40.160 to me that there hadn't been a lot of change, 00:04:40.259 --> 00:04:43.160 even in the 20 years since I had been doing that 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:45.939 direct practice. And so there was a real need 00:04:45.939 --> 00:04:48.579 both for kind of thinking through direct practice 00:04:48.579 --> 00:04:50.920 and evidence -based intervention for this population, 00:04:50.980 --> 00:04:53.819 but also policy changes that I think are strongly 00:04:53.819 --> 00:04:56.759 needed and I hope will be forthcoming with the 00:04:56.759 --> 00:04:59.759 advocacy efforts going on currently. Yeah, yeah. 00:05:00.360 --> 00:05:03.779 This makes me think I want to actually ask you 00:05:03.779 --> 00:05:06.180 both some questions about what's happening with 00:05:06.180 --> 00:05:07.839 these folks. I mean, you've both alluded to in 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:10.680 your stories about how you got into this work 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:15.459 that these are very complex relationships. These 00:05:15.459 --> 00:05:17.680 are lots of different things happening. This 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:19.680 doesn't really fit the usual mold of the way 00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:22.879 that people maybe are trained around clinical 00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:25.500 work, around families. And so maybe just start 00:05:25.500 --> 00:05:27.839 for our listeners with. some of the basics, like 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.540 what are some of the issues that impact young 00:05:30.540 --> 00:05:32.839 people when they're transitioning out of foster 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:35.500 care that our listeners may not even understand? 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:39.240 I'll turn to Julie first and then Sarah, I'd 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:40.740 love to hear what your thoughts on this topic 00:05:40.740 --> 00:05:43.519 is as well. Sure, no, this is an important question. 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:45.860 I think it's important to contextualize. There 00:05:45.860 --> 00:05:49.279 is federal monies that are kind of given to the 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:53.779 states through the Chafee Act to provide services 00:05:53.779 --> 00:05:56.279 to youth to help in the transition out of foster 00:05:56.279 --> 00:05:59.060 care. So we don't want to report that there is 00:05:59.060 --> 00:06:02.620 no support being given. There are supports. However, 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:05.100 when you think about these supports through a 00:06:05.100 --> 00:06:07.420 developmental lens, we've got a lot of problems. 00:06:07.449 --> 00:06:10.709 So one of the issues is that these support services 00:06:10.709 --> 00:06:13.050 can happen within a two -year period anytime 00:06:13.050 --> 00:06:17.290 between the age of 16 and 21. 16 is a little 00:06:17.290 --> 00:06:20.410 late to start some of this stuff. 21 is definitely 00:06:20.410 --> 00:06:23.029 too late to be doing it, but it also doesn't 00:06:23.029 --> 00:06:26.750 span enough time. Most of the services, you know, 00:06:27.189 --> 00:06:29.370 the fee is about, they'll pay for about three 00:06:29.370 --> 00:06:31.730 to five hours of contact with a youth a month. 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:36.620 And if you think about the state's responsibility, 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:39.980 right? We've removed a child from a family unit. 00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:43.120 The state is now serving as the de facto parent 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:45.819 and yet they're only giving three to five hours 00:06:45.819 --> 00:06:49.519 a month of time to quote unquote provide that 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:52.399 type of parenting. Now, of course, the state 00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:56.560 is not a person, but I... right in the context 00:06:56.560 --> 00:06:59.579 of a child or an individual young person who's 00:06:59.579 --> 00:07:02.120 not been in foster care, they're having kind 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:05.560 of these types of conversations on an ongoing 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:09.040 basis with a support network. And so there's 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:13.100 the challenge of when services get started, the 00:07:13.100 --> 00:07:15.360 amount of time or lack of the amount of time 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:19.439 that's given, and then the expectation of readiness 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:24.199 to be an adult, which is a pretty unfair expectation 00:07:24.199 --> 00:07:26.620 placed on youth transitioning out of foster care 00:07:26.620 --> 00:07:30.139 because most 18 year olds don't just get launched 00:07:30.139 --> 00:07:33.079 into the world to take care of their housing, 00:07:33.899 --> 00:07:36.819 to have their banking and their security, all 00:07:36.819 --> 00:07:38.139 these things. I was just going to ask you, what 00:07:38.139 --> 00:07:40.519 does it even mean to be an adult these days, 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:42.579 right? And for these young people, I mean, so 00:07:42.579 --> 00:07:45.899 you're talking about housing on your own. Yeah. 00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:49.860 Bank account on your own. Financial. Right. Kind 00:07:49.860 --> 00:07:54.740 of managing finances, paying taxes, things that 00:07:54.740 --> 00:07:57.180 kind of young people don't tend to do without 00:07:57.180 --> 00:08:00.060 supports of adults in their life, decision -making 00:08:00.060 --> 00:08:04.920 related to school. And so I think honestly, the 00:08:04.920 --> 00:08:08.139 issue of time for me is kind of the blaring issue. 00:08:08.439 --> 00:08:11.560 And that is, if we want more, we know that foster 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:13.819 youth drop out of college at greater rates. We 00:08:13.819 --> 00:08:16.439 want them to complete college. Well, one, they've 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:18.759 got to get to college. So right. So then we need 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:21.079 to be providing real supports in high school 00:08:21.079 --> 00:08:23.399 to get them tracked, because how does a young 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:26.100 person and I'll give you a quick story. I had 00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:28.220 two former foster youth working on a research 00:08:28.220 --> 00:08:31.699 project with me, one who is at a UC school and 00:08:31.699 --> 00:08:34.500 one that's at a community college. And that child 00:08:34.500 --> 00:08:38.059 who was in who was at the UC school or now or 00:08:38.059 --> 00:08:40.100 the young person, young adult, I should say, 00:08:40.100 --> 00:08:44.850 shared that. In ninth grade, she just looked 00:08:44.850 --> 00:08:47.529 around to see what the smart kids were taking 00:08:47.529 --> 00:08:50.690 the classes. There was no one guiding her. Sure. 00:08:50.769 --> 00:08:54.769 Right. So the other piece of this is and she 00:08:54.769 --> 00:08:57.029 ended up doing incredibly well, but she had some 00:08:57.029 --> 00:09:00.370 level of motivation. She kind of was resilient 00:09:00.370 --> 00:09:02.450 enough to figure out, OK, I don't know what I'm 00:09:02.450 --> 00:09:04.409 supposed to be doing, but I have a sense that 00:09:04.409 --> 00:09:06.070 these people do. And therefore, I'm just going 00:09:06.070 --> 00:09:08.620 to kind of replicate what they're doing. And 00:09:08.620 --> 00:09:10.799 so this other piece that I think is really critical 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:12.320 for us to be talking about and thinking about, 00:09:12.419 --> 00:09:14.179 and I'll throw it to Sara, is this idea that 00:09:14.179 --> 00:09:16.419 we kind of expect these young people to just 00:09:16.419 --> 00:09:20.220 be resilient. And that's a pretty unfair expectation 00:09:20.220 --> 00:09:22.740 as well. And they are incredibly resilient. However, 00:09:23.379 --> 00:09:26.019 you know, how How much can you be responsible 00:09:26.019 --> 00:09:30.460 for all of these things? I think Julie touched 00:09:30.460 --> 00:09:33.259 on so many different issues that I see play out 00:09:33.259 --> 00:09:35.279 in the lives of the kids that I work with here 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:41.940 at USC. But I also think that the structural 00:09:41.940 --> 00:09:45.299 resources that Julie is alluding to in terms 00:09:45.299 --> 00:09:48.120 of what the state is doing, et cetera, to try 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:51.580 and provide some level of support for these youth 00:09:51.580 --> 00:09:56.679 are, you know, Not enough. Beyond that, until 00:09:56.679 --> 00:09:59.980 recently, actually, which is a really troubling 00:09:59.980 --> 00:10:03.559 and disturbing fact, and Julie knows about this, 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:06.740 until recently, the states throughout the United 00:10:06.740 --> 00:10:10.899 States who had the discretion to access foster 00:10:10.899 --> 00:10:15.019 youths, parents' survivor benefits. So let's 00:10:15.019 --> 00:10:18.639 say a kid in foster care and their parent dies. 00:10:19.659 --> 00:10:23.639 The states had discretion to access those Social 00:10:23.639 --> 00:10:27.360 Security Administration survivor benefits. It 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:31.299 should have been then going to these foster youth 00:10:31.299 --> 00:10:34.659 to offset the cost of caring for these kids in 00:10:34.659 --> 00:10:37.799 foster care. that was pretty heinous and outrageous. 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:41.000 I think the other issue that I think we want 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:44.860 to mention is the sense of limited capacity to 00:10:44.860 --> 00:10:48.019 fill a personal agency, that sense of powerlessness, 00:10:48.299 --> 00:10:50.799 the kind of structural variables that have been 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:54.220 at play in California, in the county of Los Angeles, 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:56.639 right, where we think we're so progressive. These 00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:59.080 kids were losing access to these survivor benefits. 00:10:59.139 --> 00:11:01.740 Think about that, you know, a kid ages out of 00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:05.429 foster care into poverty. Right and why couldn't 00:11:05.429 --> 00:11:08.289 we just set aside those funds and put a little 00:11:08.289 --> 00:11:10.389 savings account for them, right? So that that 00:11:10.389 --> 00:11:12.870 would it has changed in the state of California 00:11:12.870 --> 00:11:15.090 I don't know if it's changed elsewhere. Now. 00:11:15.090 --> 00:11:18.110 That's a structural issue. That's so problematic 00:11:18.110 --> 00:11:20.830 that existed for very long I think the other 00:11:20.830 --> 00:11:23.070 thing that is interesting is the more nuanced 00:11:23.070 --> 00:11:25.289 experiences of what Julie was talking about. 00:11:25.289 --> 00:11:29.509 I was sitting here just Wednesday we had a lunch 00:11:29.509 --> 00:11:32.279 for all our you know, Progen Guardian scholars, 00:11:32.539 --> 00:11:35.840 I find that if you feed them, it really helps, 00:11:35.940 --> 00:11:38.679 you know, metaphorically, it's also important, 00:11:38.779 --> 00:11:41.139 you know, it's it's nurturing. And so, of course, 00:11:41.299 --> 00:11:42.840 we have food here for them. And they were sitting 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:45.080 around chatting with me. And one of them came 00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:46.860 to me and she said, you know, I have to buy some 00:11:46.860 --> 00:11:50.059 pots and pans for my apartment. And I said, oh, 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:54.159 good. And she says, what about? those skillets, 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:57.960 those cast iron skillets. I said, what about 00:11:57.960 --> 00:11:59.940 them, sweetie? He says, how do we care for them? 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:01.779 How do I take care of them? And so I explained 00:12:01.779 --> 00:12:04.659 to her and she sat there and she said, You know, 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:06.779 I grew up and nobody explained these kinds of 00:12:06.779 --> 00:12:09.620 things to me, you know, what I should do, where 00:12:09.620 --> 00:12:11.940 I should, and those are the kinds of things that 00:12:11.940 --> 00:12:14.419 happen, you know, in their lives. You know, I 00:12:14.419 --> 00:12:16.899 don't, a bank account, some of our kids were 00:12:16.899 --> 00:12:20.799 ripped off at the local stores here in the neighborhood 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:23.500 because they live, they're kind of on their own. 00:12:23.580 --> 00:12:26.220 Right. And one of them came to us and said, you 00:12:26.220 --> 00:12:28.200 know, I'm having trouble having doing my taxes 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:30.740 because for a while I was being paid with personal 00:12:30.740 --> 00:12:33.399 checks. And then at other times I was get a payroll 00:12:33.399 --> 00:12:36.000 check. And now I don't know how I'm going to 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.139 do my taxes. That kind of stuff is the kind of 00:12:38.139 --> 00:12:40.500 stuff you if you have parents or you have loving 00:12:40.500 --> 00:12:42.940 foster parents, you have folks in your life who 00:12:42.940 --> 00:12:46.039 kind of step in to sort of nurture and support 00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:50.179 you, then great. But I think then they are sometimes 00:12:50.179 --> 00:12:52.879 easily exploited. So these are just the ones. 00:12:53.980 --> 00:12:55.980 idiosyncratic experiences, but it tells you something. 00:12:56.100 --> 00:12:58.379 The other thing, for example, is they apply for 00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:01.220 scholarships. Most scholarships want to see their 00:13:01.220 --> 00:13:03.620 parents' income tax returns. These kids don't 00:13:03.620 --> 00:13:06.080 have access to that, right? And so I end up having 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:08.860 to write letters saying, by the way, so as I 00:13:08.860 --> 00:13:11.659 am here to confirm. Can I do that? I don't know, 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:14.879 but I say it anyways, because those are obstacles 00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:17.519 that they face. When you were talking about this 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:18.820 earlier, Julian, you're saying, you know, three 00:13:18.820 --> 00:13:20.320 to five hours, and then I'm thinking about all 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:22.259 these obstacles that Sara was just mentioning 00:13:22.259 --> 00:13:24.039 and think about, how are you possibly going to 00:13:24.039 --> 00:13:26.320 get through any of those things with three to 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:28.460 five hours in a month, right? I mean, that's, 00:13:28.460 --> 00:13:30.820 that's just, that seems really, really challenging. 00:13:31.549 --> 00:13:34.049 I know you're both really interested in family 00:13:34.049 --> 00:13:36.210 relationships and family systems and the complexity 00:13:36.210 --> 00:13:38.470 of this. From your perspective, I mean, how is 00:13:38.470 --> 00:13:41.629 it that the presence of adults plays into the 00:13:41.629 --> 00:13:44.409 lives of these youth? I mean, you know, obviously 00:13:44.409 --> 00:13:46.549 they're removed from a family. So there's this 00:13:46.549 --> 00:13:49.429 fracture that's happened. But how do these young 00:13:49.429 --> 00:13:52.649 people then proceed afterwards? And what are 00:13:52.649 --> 00:13:55.090 those relationships? And what do they look like? 00:13:55.350 --> 00:13:57.730 And what kind of do we need to do about them? 00:13:58.009 --> 00:13:59.649 Jill, you want to maybe take this first? You 00:13:59.649 --> 00:14:01.129 know, Sarah and I both kind of give examples 00:14:01.129 --> 00:14:03.350 of folks who might not have had any contact with 00:14:03.350 --> 00:14:05.769 family or had limited contact. But I think it's 00:14:05.769 --> 00:14:07.649 important for us to state that most of these 00:14:07.649 --> 00:14:10.590 youth have contact with their families, sometimes 00:14:10.590 --> 00:14:14.190 with the parent who was the perpetrator or did 00:14:14.190 --> 00:14:16.769 not stop the perpetration. But even if it's not 00:14:16.769 --> 00:14:19.190 the parent, their grandparent or siblings, their 00:14:19.190 --> 00:14:23.809 aunts and uncles. And so I. And that can be positive, 00:14:23.889 --> 00:14:27.149 but can also mean a continued connection into 00:14:27.149 --> 00:14:30.549 a dysfunctional family system. And so we know 00:14:30.549 --> 00:14:32.830 that there's a fair number of our kids who, you 00:14:32.830 --> 00:14:35.350 know, feel responsible for supporting family 00:14:35.350 --> 00:14:37.470 members. It's right. They're trying to kind of 00:14:37.470 --> 00:14:39.889 take on this dual very kind of parentified role 00:14:39.889 --> 00:14:43.320 with their family system. And that can create 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:45.600 complications. And we see that for other populations, 00:14:45.659 --> 00:14:48.899 particularly in college settings. Right. It's 00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:52.360 not unique to foster youth, but I do think there's 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:56.799 I would say a fair. A majority do have contact 00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:59.480 with some family. That family though might not 00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:00.919 have been able to take them in. They might not 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:03.259 have been able to provide the support or require 00:15:03.259 --> 00:15:05.360 or meet the requirements of the child welfare 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:08.500 system to house them. But I think what happens 00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:11.759 with young people is that generally it's our 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:14.100 systems that step in, you know, community based 00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:16.779 organizations. But because of the limited time 00:15:16.779 --> 00:15:20.360 that supportive adult doesn't stay attached. 00:15:20.590 --> 00:15:24.009 along the way. So either that young person has 00:15:24.009 --> 00:15:26.529 to continually tell their story to find teachers 00:15:26.529 --> 00:15:29.289 that will be helpful, because teachers step up 00:15:29.289 --> 00:15:31.889 in all sorts of ways, both in high school. University 00:15:31.889 --> 00:15:34.590 professors, we know, step up and step in in multiple 00:15:34.590 --> 00:15:37.370 ways to provide supports. But it does require 00:15:37.370 --> 00:15:40.370 this young person to be retelling their story. 00:15:41.049 --> 00:15:43.909 and potentially re -traumatizing themselves to 00:15:43.909 --> 00:15:47.149 kind of get what they need. And I would really 00:15:47.149 --> 00:15:50.029 love to kind of think through and see more work 00:15:50.029 --> 00:15:53.509 being done about building social networks and 00:15:53.509 --> 00:15:56.570 social relationships with stable adults for young 00:15:56.570 --> 00:15:59.230 people, whether it's coaches, teachers, but folks 00:15:59.230 --> 00:16:02.590 who can help them through transitions and across 00:16:02.590 --> 00:16:06.009 time. not just in the setting where they meet 00:16:06.009 --> 00:16:09.669 them or know them. So we think there's an organization 00:16:09.669 --> 00:16:12.590 called Kids Save that does this for older foster 00:16:12.590 --> 00:16:14.470 youth. They're based out of in Los Angeles, in 00:16:14.470 --> 00:16:16.649 Houston, and on the East Coast. There are organizations 00:16:16.649 --> 00:16:18.509 like Big Brothers, Big Sisters, right, which 00:16:18.509 --> 00:16:21.889 has that type of model. I don't know how engaged 00:16:21.889 --> 00:16:23.570 they are with youth in foster care, but they 00:16:23.570 --> 00:16:25.570 do have this model, right, of this idea that 00:16:25.570 --> 00:16:29.350 like you may be from a family system that has 00:16:29.350 --> 00:16:32.490 adversity. And so we kind of introduce stable 00:16:32.490 --> 00:16:34.409 people, but Big Brothers, Big Sisters, those 00:16:34.409 --> 00:16:37.009 folks stay over a long period of time connected 00:16:37.009 --> 00:16:39.009 to these young people and sometimes across their 00:16:39.009 --> 00:16:44.149 lifespan. And so I think the challenge that really 00:16:44.149 --> 00:16:49.409 for me rises is this lack of stable, supportive 00:16:49.409 --> 00:16:53.070 adults, resulting then in the reliance on, again, 00:16:53.269 --> 00:16:55.970 kind of some level of resiliency or kind of great 00:16:55.970 --> 00:16:59.190 fortitude to figure things out on one's own or 00:16:59.190 --> 00:17:02.409 relying on peers. which, you know, peers can 00:17:02.409 --> 00:17:05.190 be supportive, but they're not generally the 00:17:05.190 --> 00:17:08.009 best guiders because they don't know particularly 00:17:08.009 --> 00:17:11.369 more than you do as a young person. And so it 00:17:11.369 --> 00:17:14.970 leaves these young people kind of unclear of 00:17:14.970 --> 00:17:17.869 you don't know what you don't know. So what do 00:17:17.869 --> 00:17:19.630 you how do you ask for something when you don't 00:17:19.630 --> 00:17:21.750 even know you're supposed to know it or ask for 00:17:21.750 --> 00:17:24.369 it? So creates this complication that I think 00:17:24.369 --> 00:17:26.990 is again goes back to kind of this developmental 00:17:26.990 --> 00:17:30.390 readiness. And yeah, yeah. I do agree with Julie. 00:17:30.589 --> 00:17:32.390 I was going to say I wrote some of the notes. 00:17:32.569 --> 00:17:33.990 And Julie, one of the things that I had written 00:17:33.990 --> 00:17:36.130 in terms of misunderstandings that people have 00:17:36.130 --> 00:17:40.910 about this population is the notion that their 00:17:40.910 --> 00:17:42.710 families of origin are not part of their lives 00:17:42.710 --> 00:17:44.410 when they age out of foster care, which is just 00:17:44.410 --> 00:17:47.710 not the case. But as Julie described, it's a 00:17:47.710 --> 00:17:50.230 complex dynamic. We've had a couple of kids who 00:17:50.230 --> 00:17:54.210 then dread going home for summer. you know, leaving 00:17:54.210 --> 00:17:56.349 the campus and going back to Pennsylvania or 00:17:56.349 --> 00:17:58.990 Florida or whatever, because, you know, one of 00:17:58.990 --> 00:18:00.430 them said to me, it's just that I have to go 00:18:00.430 --> 00:18:03.470 back and I'm back in that whole place with my 00:18:03.470 --> 00:18:06.789 mom and my uncles. You know, that kind of situation 00:18:06.789 --> 00:18:11.000 that sometimes can sort of be. re -traumatizing 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:13.480 for them. But they have to do that summer shuffle, 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:15.779 you see, because they can't stay on campus. So 00:18:15.779 --> 00:18:19.099 housing is a real issue and challenge. I think 00:18:19.099 --> 00:18:20.460 the other thing that I think is important for 00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:22.539 us to remember about this population of foster 00:18:22.539 --> 00:18:24.759 youth, I'm thinking of just the USC population 00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:27.160 of kids. They all, you know, come into USC with 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:31.539 a 3 .8 or 3 .75 GPA, very bright kids. But the 00:18:31.539 --> 00:18:34.160 idea that resilience in that particular domain, 00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:36.259 you know, the area of cognitive skills, et cetera, 00:18:36.539 --> 00:18:39.700 does not necessarily imply resilience in other 00:18:39.700 --> 00:18:42.700 developmental domains. You know, social well 00:18:42.700 --> 00:18:45.460 -being, relational dynamics, et cetera. And so 00:18:45.460 --> 00:18:47.619 you come to college, right, and you're in this 00:18:47.619 --> 00:18:49.599 context, in this environment, you're taking your 00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:52.339 classes, but you don't know how to negotiate 00:18:52.339 --> 00:18:54.599 the other pieces of the puzzle, right? You don't 00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:58.019 know how to navigate that. And so there's that 00:18:58.019 --> 00:19:00.990 kind of vulnerability. that plays out. At the 00:19:00.990 --> 00:19:03.509 same time then you have other kids who come and 00:19:03.509 --> 00:19:05.549 they've been in foster care and they I have one 00:19:05.549 --> 00:19:08.349 of our kids who had a paid internship at JPL 00:19:08.349 --> 00:19:11.509 this summer and it's doing really really well 00:19:11.509 --> 00:19:16.230 so there's a gamut but most of our kids in TJS 00:19:16.230 --> 00:19:20.779 are anxious about Who is there for them? What 00:19:20.779 --> 00:19:25.119 is going on in terms of reliable adults, people 00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:29.440 who they can just feel safe with and anchored 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:33.039 in relationship with? Well, Sarah, let me ask 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:35.180 you to lean into that for a minute because my 00:19:35.180 --> 00:19:38.799 impression is that you, as a person who runs 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:42.960 Trojan Guardian Scholars, become that person 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:44.839 oftentimes, right? Or the people that you're 00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:47.710 working with do. So can you maybe for our listeners 00:19:47.710 --> 00:19:49.970 who have no idea what a Trojan Guardian Scholar 00:19:49.970 --> 00:19:54.009 is, or even some sort of program that supports, 00:19:54.089 --> 00:19:56.710 can you talk about what it is that this program 00:19:56.710 --> 00:20:02.829 does? Yeah, let me share with you briefly. So 00:20:02.829 --> 00:20:07.130 the Trojan Guardian Scholars program is our university's 00:20:07.130 --> 00:20:10.029 effort to replicate a model that was originally 00:20:10.029 --> 00:20:13.269 established in 1998 at Cal State Fullerton. In 00:20:13.269 --> 00:20:15.849 response to the needs of former foster youth 00:20:15.849 --> 00:20:19.529 who attend post -secondary education Why graduation 00:20:19.529 --> 00:20:22.569 rates are appalling 3 to 11 percent of kids graduate 00:20:22.569 --> 00:20:25.150 with this lived experience graduate from college 00:20:25.150 --> 00:20:27.109 So there's a sense we have to do something about 00:20:27.109 --> 00:20:30.190 it So this and when they do get it when their 00:20:30.190 --> 00:20:33.150 dropout rates are extremely high, right? Whatever 00:20:33.150 --> 00:20:36.130 was offered at the university just wasn't adequate 00:20:36.130 --> 00:20:39.880 was not helping this population. So it was created 00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:42.119 Cal State Fullerton. Now it exists throughout 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:45.299 the UC system and throughout Cal State universities 00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:48.200 and community colleges because the state of California 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:52.420 mandates this program now in the universities. 00:20:53.380 --> 00:20:55.960 Some of the universities have very robust programs 00:20:55.960 --> 00:21:00.009 with a fairly significant level of support. UCLA 00:21:00.009 --> 00:21:03.609 two or three years ago had 400 kids in the Guardian 00:21:03.609 --> 00:21:06.529 Scholars Program, right? Every community college 00:21:06.529 --> 00:21:11.069 has an office, a branch. How their staff varies. 00:21:11.690 --> 00:21:15.410 USC has no obligation. USC is a private university, 00:21:15.670 --> 00:21:18.210 and they are not required or mandated by the 00:21:18.210 --> 00:21:21.869 state to offer any level of support. So the reason 00:21:21.869 --> 00:21:25.150 we exist here at USC is because of the work of 00:21:25.150 --> 00:21:28.089 Wendy Smith -Meyer and Jacqueline Kroski. And 00:21:28.089 --> 00:21:32.250 Wendy supports us. She supports us with a gift. 00:21:32.569 --> 00:21:36.509 It started at USC because of their advocacy for 00:21:36.509 --> 00:21:38.890 this population, and it started about 12, 13 00:21:38.890 --> 00:21:43.900 years ago. And Wendy approached Dean Flynn about, 00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:46.460 you know, let's establish a chapter here. It's 00:21:46.460 --> 00:21:50.839 social work. And Marilyn was not supportive of 00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:53.460 that. And her, I believe, one of the arguments 00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:57.180 was that, you know, TGS really focuses on undergraduate 00:21:57.180 --> 00:21:59.119 students for obvious reasons, right? We need 00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:01.039 to kind of make sure they get through school. 00:22:01.099 --> 00:22:03.019 But there was a sense that this was not a program 00:22:03.019 --> 00:22:05.319 that was really going to be something that is 00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:08.779 helpful to our MSW students. So Wendy went to 00:22:08.779 --> 00:22:12.900 Dornsife. at USC and Dornsife embraced the program 00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:16.420 and they had a wonderful ally at Dornsife, Dr. 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:19.220 George Sanchez and the program was launched there 00:22:19.220 --> 00:22:22.440 and it really initially offered fairly robust 00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:25.180 levels of support to the very small cohort of 00:22:25.180 --> 00:22:27.779 students here at USC but eventually the decision 00:22:27.779 --> 00:22:31.240 when Sarah Gellert was here, Wendy brought it 00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:33.880 back and there was an openness to bring it back 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:37.109 and that's how the program established here. 00:22:37.349 --> 00:22:39.349 Well, I mean, it makes sense that we in social 00:22:39.349 --> 00:22:42.250 work would be hosting such a program. I mean, 00:22:42.329 --> 00:22:45.329 even if it is mostly focused on undergraduates, 00:22:45.410 --> 00:22:47.289 I mean, this is this is where the social workers 00:22:47.289 --> 00:22:51.109 are. Exactly. This is, you know, so it's great 00:22:51.109 --> 00:22:53.630 that it's great that you're doing this and about 00:22:53.630 --> 00:22:55.930 how many students do you do you work with? On 00:22:55.930 --> 00:22:58.269 average, we have between 35 and 40 students. 00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.539 Currently we have 27 and we're going through 00:23:02.539 --> 00:23:06.079 the process of bringing them aboard the new students 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:08.720 who have just approached us about joining Trojan 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:10.759 Guardian Scholars and there's about eight of 00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:13.240 them who approached me over the summer. Financial 00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:16.420 Aid sends them our flyer. We can't have the names 00:23:16.420 --> 00:23:20.569 obviously for reasons of privacy and confidentiality. 00:23:20.769 --> 00:23:23.650 We can't access to that data set, you know, that 00:23:23.650 --> 00:23:28.710 cohort of students, but we negotiate and strengthen 00:23:28.710 --> 00:23:30.710 our relationship with financial aid and said, 00:23:30.730 --> 00:23:33.529 hey, can you just send this out to them? And 00:23:33.529 --> 00:23:36.309 then they approach us, you know, and they decide 00:23:36.309 --> 00:23:39.730 at what level they want to remain engaged with 00:23:39.730 --> 00:23:41.910 us, but we make sure that they know we're here. 00:23:42.349 --> 00:23:45.690 That's great. And what are the sort of support 00:23:45.690 --> 00:23:48.410 services that you offer to these young people? 00:23:47.900 --> 00:23:50.599 people. Well, we know that they're going to have 00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:53.220 difficulty staying enrolled. Okay, we know that 00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:54.640 they're probably going to have some challenges 00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:57.059 with housing. We know that this happens that 00:23:57.059 --> 00:24:00.259 an army hybrid 70 % of these kids drop out within 00:24:00.259 --> 00:24:03.519 their first year of college. Okay. So we know 00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:06.079 that they're going to have a tough time navigating 00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:09.420 college, the college experience. So what we do 00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:11.980 is we cajole and beg financial assistance to 00:24:11.980 --> 00:24:14.059 look at what's going on, get them scholarships. 00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:16.680 We developed a whole spreadsheet on all the different 00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:18.259 scholarships. And those are the kinds of things. 00:24:18.259 --> 00:24:20.200 And then we provide a space where they can just 00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:22.180 drop in, you know, if they're having a tough 00:24:22.180 --> 00:24:24.799 time. We just had a couple of our kids who were, 00:24:24.859 --> 00:24:27.410 you know, in a relationship just broke up. So 00:24:27.410 --> 00:24:29.609 it's just so sweet. I mean, this kids, the kind 00:24:29.609 --> 00:24:32.589 of stuff that happens in life happens in this 00:24:32.589 --> 00:24:34.630 community. So they've been coming in and talking 00:24:34.630 --> 00:24:37.210 to me about that. And then another one, another 00:24:37.210 --> 00:24:39.849 one of our kids just lost her dad, her biological 00:24:39.849 --> 00:24:41.769 father. And this is where what Julie was talking 00:24:41.769 --> 00:24:44.410 about is important. And she, she came and she 00:24:44.410 --> 00:24:45.869 was talking to me about it because she said, 00:24:45.890 --> 00:24:47.730 you know, my family's been protecting me from 00:24:47.730 --> 00:24:50.170 contact with my father, but he was my dad, you 00:24:50.170 --> 00:24:53.609 know, and, and I, and I feel like, you know, 00:24:53.710 --> 00:24:55.829 that loss was a big one for me, even though he 00:24:55.829 --> 00:24:57.779 wasn't part of my life. life for 20 years, you 00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:01.160 know, but, you know, so just providing a space 00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:03.720 where they can come and then figuring out what 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:06.339 we can connect them with. Yeah, that's fabulous. 00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:08.220 That's fabulous. I think that's such amazing 00:25:08.220 --> 00:25:11.440 and important work to be providing for these 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:14.000 students. It makes me think, you know, as you're 00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:17.019 providing these resources and doing the work 00:25:17.019 --> 00:25:18.759 of a social worker, one of the other things that 00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:21.140 we do a lot here at the School of Social Work 00:25:21.140 --> 00:25:24.230 is we do research on populations, right? One 00:25:24.230 --> 00:25:26.130 thing is I'm really interested, and you're talking 00:25:26.130 --> 00:25:27.609 about data made me think about this. I thought, 00:25:27.710 --> 00:25:30.369 oh, you know, hard to solve problems when you 00:25:30.369 --> 00:25:32.430 don't know exactly what's going on. I mean, data 00:25:32.430 --> 00:25:35.470 is an advocacy tool in some respects. But thinking 00:25:35.470 --> 00:25:38.369 about that angle, Julia, I know you're a very 00:25:38.369 --> 00:25:41.690 active researcher and you work on this. Are there 00:25:41.690 --> 00:25:45.049 particular topics that you think need more exploration 00:25:45.049 --> 00:25:46.890 or that you're engaging in recently that you 00:25:46.890 --> 00:25:50.579 think, you know, really are important to move 00:25:50.579 --> 00:25:52.640 the needle for these folks? Yeah, absolutely. 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:54.380 And some of these projects that Anna and I are 00:25:54.380 --> 00:25:58.339 doing together. So it's kind of be talking, having 00:25:58.339 --> 00:26:00.619 both of us to hear together because I think there's 00:26:00.619 --> 00:26:02.920 a lot of synergy in the way we think about things. 00:26:04.460 --> 00:26:08.579 little to no, there's one promising intervention, 00:26:09.160 --> 00:26:11.319 but evidence -based interventions for youth transitioning 00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:14.920 out of the foster care system. Just as a basic 00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:18.000 science kind of evidence -based interventions, 00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:21.180 there's a lot of work to be done in our scientific 00:26:21.180 --> 00:26:23.880 communities. One of the things Sarah and I are 00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:27.619 interested in is getting a sense of Trojan scholars 00:26:27.619 --> 00:26:31.039 across the state at different institutions. You 00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:33.400 know, our numbers are small, but there does not 00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:36.619 seem to be a central hub gathering information 00:26:36.619 --> 00:26:39.559 from the Guardian Scholars programs all across 00:26:39.559 --> 00:26:42.119 the state. So it's kind of a funny situation 00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:45.220 to have like state funding and state mandates 00:26:45.220 --> 00:26:47.880 to do work that then nobody's really tracking. 00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:51.559 So I think really kind of critical to understand 00:26:52.209 --> 00:26:54.349 that Sada and I have talked about is kind of 00:26:54.349 --> 00:26:57.490 what do their social networks and social relationships 00:26:57.490 --> 00:27:01.910 looks like? And how does that impact their just 00:27:01.910 --> 00:27:04.849 overall wellbeing? Obviously, we would look at 00:27:04.849 --> 00:27:08.450 mental health, we would look at domains of, you 00:27:08.450 --> 00:27:11.289 know, coping, right? Because that's, you know, 00:27:11.569 --> 00:27:14.269 different coping styles can result in more positive 00:27:14.269 --> 00:27:17.960 or challenging mental distress. And that's something 00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:19.700 that's really modifiable. And she and I both 00:27:19.700 --> 00:27:22.259 know how to modify that, right? So kind of thinking 00:27:22.259 --> 00:27:24.680 about ways social networks can be built, mental 00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:29.079 health can be strengthened. So I think that the 00:27:29.079 --> 00:27:32.019 work that's been done has been good. There is. 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:35.960 the hub at UC Berkeley that does collect data 00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:38.680 on kids transitioning out of foster care, but 00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:41.799 it's really focused on kind of more epidemiological 00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:44.259 data, meaning like how many are homeless or not, 00:27:44.619 --> 00:27:47.319 how many are in higher ed or not, and not about 00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:50.480 kind of what facilitates good things happening 00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:53.420 and what creates challenges. And so I think. 00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:56.140 we're really interested in having a better understanding 00:27:56.140 --> 00:28:00.099 of what strengthens or what things lead to better 00:28:00.099 --> 00:28:03.200 outcomes for these youth so that we can create 00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:06.039 evidence -based interventions and test interventions 00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:11.319 to really strengthen both the readiness and the 00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:15.359 support over time for youth so that they can 00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:18.140 thrive. I mean, I think we owe it to these young 00:28:18.140 --> 00:28:21.740 people. to carry that all the way through. And 00:28:21.740 --> 00:28:25.119 universities owe it to young people to provide 00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:29.819 housing when we shut down for breaks in the summer, 00:28:30.059 --> 00:28:34.940 in winter, Thanksgiving. We owe them kind of 00:28:34.940 --> 00:28:36.980 direct clinical practice work, but also I think 00:28:36.980 --> 00:28:39.880 policy change to really enhance their lives. 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:45.339 Like that is what a parent would do. If the state 00:28:45.339 --> 00:28:47.519 is your parent, then they need to kind of fulfill 00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:50.390 that role as well. And I think one of the things 00:28:50.390 --> 00:28:53.630 that Julie and I had discussed made me think 00:28:53.630 --> 00:28:57.410 about something that we did here at TGS, which 00:28:57.410 --> 00:29:00.789 was to just start. collecting a lot of data and 00:29:00.789 --> 00:29:04.609 research and information related to this population. 00:29:04.789 --> 00:29:07.890 And that information was shared with Julie. And 00:29:07.890 --> 00:29:11.089 it can just kind of be used. I mean, it's just 00:29:11.089 --> 00:29:13.549 rough data, whatever. But there's a piece to 00:29:13.549 --> 00:29:16.210 the work we're doing here that is about building 00:29:16.210 --> 00:29:19.069 a sense of community and connectedness. But we 00:29:19.069 --> 00:29:21.829 understand the importance of the work that Julie 00:29:21.829 --> 00:29:25.990 can do and why research is so essential. Right. 00:29:26.069 --> 00:29:28.789 I mean, I think research needs clinical practice 00:29:28.789 --> 00:29:30.670 and clinical practice needs research. I think 00:29:30.670 --> 00:29:33.329 there's a synergy and things are really much 00:29:33.329 --> 00:29:36.130 more impactful when researchers are listening 00:29:36.130 --> 00:29:39.210 to clinicians and when clinicians have access 00:29:39.210 --> 00:29:41.930 to researchers. I mean, I think it's a really 00:29:41.930 --> 00:29:44.970 powerful synergy that you have going on. And 00:29:44.970 --> 00:29:47.910 it's great that you have a shared vision of the 00:29:47.910 --> 00:29:50.130 well -being for these folks. Working with these 00:29:50.130 --> 00:29:51.930 young people or working on research with these 00:29:51.930 --> 00:29:53.950 young people, but is there anything that is really 00:29:53.950 --> 00:29:56.140 burning in your mind? that you'd like to share 00:29:56.140 --> 00:29:58.700 with the listeners before we say goodbye here. 00:29:59.220 --> 00:30:01.460 One of the things that I've learned from them 00:30:01.460 --> 00:30:04.660 that has been really important to me has been 00:30:04.660 --> 00:30:08.220 the fact that it is their story to tell. Do you 00:30:08.220 --> 00:30:11.640 know what I mean? They need to be the ones who 00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:16.180 are deciding what story they share, with whom 00:30:16.180 --> 00:30:25.000 they share it. And I need to step back. And not 00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:28.380 just listen, but allow them to define how it 00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:30.779 is that they want to present themselves in this 00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:33.619 context, right? They need to be centered in this 00:30:33.619 --> 00:30:38.940 process. It's more of an overarching commitment 00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:43.240 to respecting them. Yeah, not surprising. Sarah 00:30:43.240 --> 00:30:46.160 and I were about to say the same thing. You know, 00:30:46.180 --> 00:30:48.640 I was going to use the quote, nothing for us 00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:51.720 without us or nothing about us without us, which 00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:54.680 is really, you know, comes out of the disability 00:30:54.680 --> 00:30:56.980 and social justice movement. But I think speaks 00:30:56.980 --> 00:31:00.019 to this population as well. Part of the research 00:31:00.019 --> 00:31:02.740 that we've done includes young people as part 00:31:02.740 --> 00:31:07.140 of our data collection teams. We can't understand. 00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:10.140 problems without including the voice of people 00:31:10.140 --> 00:31:14.359 who have lived experience. And if we want to 00:31:14.359 --> 00:31:17.180 be relevant, and if we want to be changemakers, 00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:21.559 we have to uplift or lift up people and provide 00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:23.940 them the experiences. I think one of the things 00:31:23.940 --> 00:31:28.259 that these young people don't have a lot of is 00:31:28.259 --> 00:31:32.119 experience, experience to try research, experience 00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:34.380 to try different jobs or working experience. 00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:37.240 So if you think of, and these are paid opportunities, 00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:39.440 right? So this is not asking for free labor. 00:31:39.579 --> 00:31:42.680 This is really being intentional and inclusive 00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:48.539 of young people as part of our teams and to make 00:31:48.539 --> 00:31:51.720 change and to be leaders in that change. And 00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:54.339 for them to be able to walk away from the experiences 00:31:54.339 --> 00:31:58.220 and working with us with tools and skills that 00:31:58.220 --> 00:32:01.640 will launch them into whatever careers they choose 00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:04.140 moving forward. Thank you so much. I mean, and 00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:06.339 I just want to say thank you, Julie. Thank you, 00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:08.440 Sarah. This has been such a great conversation. 00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:10.819 I want to say to our listeners, if you want to 00:32:10.819 --> 00:32:13.559 learn more about the work that our school and 00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:16.200 these folks are doing with the Trojan Guardian 00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:18.660 Scholars, you can visit our website, which is 00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:27.799 dworakpeck .usk .edu. And if you have questions 00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:30.369 for the guests on our show, or you want to support 00:32:30.369 --> 00:32:33.450 our transformative research and programs, please 00:32:33.450 --> 00:32:38.609 email us at listenuppeople at usc .edu. And thanks 00:32:38.609 --> 00:32:40.950 once again, folks. It was great to have you here 00:32:40.950 --> 00:32:42.890 today. Thank you. Bye.