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Welcome to Reefer the Reefer the podcast. I'm little farmer your host. Today we got

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a great show with Jeremy Silva from Build a Soil. This week's episode is brought to

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you by the cannabis connoisseurs coalition. Unfortunately, due to unforeseen difficulties,

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tonight's extract games is going to be postponed until February 25th. They have decided to

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combine the legendary extract games with the classic Da Vin times event that is going to

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be on February 25th. So make sure to reach out to the website to get your tickets. Now

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let's get into the show. All right, everyone, welcome back to the show. I'm little farmer

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the show is called Reefer the Reefer. I'm here with Jeremy Silva from Build a Soil.

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Great soil. It's a Colorado soil. I was recommended by Miles Filippelli from fermented plant extracts

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to reach out and get you on here. I wanted to do it anyways. I consult and got a few

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clients that use your soil and best to come straight to you and get the information so

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they can get it and understand it right from you and not have the middleman. Awesome. Yeah,

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I love it. I'm here to help and definitely like talking about soil and really anything

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else. So thanks for having me on today. So yeah, the basis of the show we wanted to just

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talk to people in the industry, talk about how they got into it, how they got into cannabis,

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try to normalize cannabis show that we're not a bunch of freaks and we're normal people.

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We can formal work normally consuming cannabis just like there's functional alcoholics out

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there and you know, but what actually got you into cannabis? All right. First of all,

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are you from Colorado? No, so I'm from California. I grew up in Orange County. I also lived,

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I went to freshman year, Rim of the World High School in Lake Arrowhead. So I lived

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up in the mountains for a little while and then I lived closer to the beach for a little

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while. And so I had a little bit of both of those in my life. My dad lived in Lake Tahoe.

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Some of my best memories were in the mountains. Don't get me wrong, love surfing, but I'm

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kind of torn. I like snowboarding, like surfing, like the mountains, like the ocean. And so

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I ended up coming to Colorado in 2009. And so I've been here, you know, well over a decade

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now, almost 15 years. So did you come for the, you came for the mountains then, right?

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You didn't come for the cannabis because California already had their cannabis scene there and

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I'm sure it's pretty easy to get back then. Yeah, I was coming for a simpler life. I was

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at the point in my life where I was looking for change. And when I came out here, you

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know, the American dream was still alive as far as, Hey, you could get a home at a regular

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type of income and you might be able to have some chickens and some land and have a little

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bit of a piece of that. And I grew up in a cul-de-sac. And so that, that wasn't something

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that I really saw open to me and staying in California while it was exciting. You know,

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the beaches are getting more crowded and home prices are going up and opportunity to start

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a business is more challenging. And so it ended up being a big blessing coming here.

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Small town, easier to start my business. So definitely came here for other reasons, but

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I remember looking up online going, Hey, what's the canvas laws in Colorado? And I knew there

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was some, and I knew it was, you know, at least more progressive, but I didn't know

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exactly what. And so once I found out that, Hey, not an issue, you can be growing. It

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wasn't fully like legitimate yet, as far as a lot of the recreational hadn't passed and

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there was a lot of medical going on, but at least it was there. And I even remember Googling,

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I think it was a town down the street near Montrose. Cause at that time in California

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was easy to go to like a whole row of dispensaries. I mean, you go to one street and there'd be

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20 on there, you know, kind of like based on the landlord and you'd go from shop to

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shop to see who had the best herb. And so I at least wanted to make sure. And I saw

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some guy running a dispensary illegally out of his house in Olathe and ended up getting

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shut down, but he was trying to, you know, navigate the holes in the law. And I just

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remember thinking, okay, well, at least I'll find, figure something out when I get there.

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Well, it turns out it was a lot harder than I expected. California, I mean, I know there's

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plenty of urban Colorado, but when I got here and to Western Colorado, I wasn't connected.

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And so it was really hard to find decent herb. And so that's really what kickstarted a lot

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of my, I've been growing since then, you know, since 2009 straight now before then a DAPL

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a little, but it was a necessity. And so I started to learn a lot around that time.

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So what, what, what got you started in consuming? Was it a medical need or more just recreational

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or a little bit of both?

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recreational. I would say like when you, so when I moved to Colorado for me to get my

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medical card, they wanted to list a physical ailment pain, something like that. But in

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California, one of the prerequisites was, Hey, are you feeling stressed? Cause that's

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not very healthy, you know, and I was running a business and it can definitely add some

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stress. And I feel like for whatever reason, my productive mind, I've used it as something

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to lean on to calm that down. So I started in college. I didn't really smoke in high

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school and I noticed that just keeping my busy schedule, being able to decompress and

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allow me to just really focus, be in the moment, live in the now. And while that can be a burden

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sometimes, I found ways where it just really benefited my life. So I would kind of set

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my to do list, figure out what I needed to get done. And then I would smoke where a lot

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of times if I smoked and then try to come up with what to do, that's kind of where the

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problem lies. And this plant has been part of my life since I found it and pretty much

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full force. Like as soon as I, as soon as I found that I remember thinking, okay, well

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I'll always smoke maybe on the weekends or something. And then pretty soon you're like,

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why is like coffee? Like I just enjoy this as part of my day. And then once you build

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that tolerance up as somebody, you know, first start smoking, obviously it's a little bit

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more potent, a little bit more recreational, but eventually it becomes like having a cup

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of coffee. You just kind of balance it out.

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Yep. It's the same way with me. It's all day, every day, whenever I need it, it helps

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me focus. That's a big thing. I get a little ADHD and I get going in two or three different

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directions and it's easy to just take a toke or two and get focused and focus on one thing

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and get it done.

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Yeah. It's definitely a blessing in that regard. I noticed a lot of my, our customers, a lot

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of people that relate to me in that regard, they feel like it helps narrow that, that

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ADHD so to speak, or that wild mind. And I definitely have something like that. And I

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remember when I first started Build A Soil, it was a big deal. It was like, do I talk

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about smoking and growing and all this and public? What happens if I need another job

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in the future? And I know a lot of us go through this phase in our life. I'm certainly past

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it now. I almost can't remember what it was like, partially because of the laws changing,

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partially just getting older and being fine with who you are. But I remember for a period

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of time thinking, maybe this is hurting my life and I shouldn't be doing this based on

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what I hear other people saying. And I started to realize doctors, lawyers, attorneys, everybody

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that I dealt with in life, a lot of times they're like, yeah, Blaze, you know, you're

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like, really you're successful. It's like, well, yeah, I've managed, I have lots of things

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that I like in my life and I just balance them. And so I think I started to realize

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that it wasn't to blame the plant. It was more the person. And certain people can obviously

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use any of these things as a heck. I can go to the coffee pot and make six cups of coffee

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and waste a whole bunch of time. And so I feel like once I understood that, I kind of

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dropped the excuses.

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Yeah. There's some people that shouldn't be smoking, I believe, because they get really

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lazy. Other people, it does the opposite. It kind of gets them amped up, kind of just

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on the strain too. Do you have a specific strain or type of weed you like to smoke?

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I like them all. I definitely have some specifics, but I've noticed that they all resonate pretty

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well with me. Occasionally I get like when I used to have to buy it and not grow it,

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there'd be some time where I'm like, man, that particular sack did not leave me very

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feeling very productive. And I'd imagine maybe looking back, maybe it was aged or oxidized,

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maybe some CBN in there or something sleepier. But for the most part, as long as it's something

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that I'm growing and it's fresh, whether it's narrow leaf or broad leaf or any of these

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things, I tend to enjoy it just as much. I do go back to the fuelier, stronger. I really

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do like chem D crosses and I look for stuff that has that pallet coating, kind of fuel,

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herb, gas. Like I like that. I definitely, I remember the first time I started growing

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some of like Agent Orange and you know, Lemon G and some of these more interesting tropical

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terps. I just, I felt like they were exciting, but then after a while you're kind of like,

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man, it'd be nice to have just some fuel, some gas. And so I tend to be pretty predominant

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in that I could smoke it all day, every day. Where if I have some something orange or something

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tropical, I enjoy it. But for whatever reason, I tend to switch away and then come back,

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use it kind of like as a treat or as a flavor. Yeah, me too. I like, I like the tinctures.

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Actually I'm making some tinctures. I got some tangy tincture. I make it full spectrum

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extract and it tastes really good when you put it in some tea. That's my new thing. I'm

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trying to cut down on smoking. I got tea. Yeah, absolutely. I understand that. Like

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one of the things about smoking and part of the reason why I think initially I started

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growing in soil and looking to the organic way is like all of us, I was concerned with

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what I'm putting in my body every day. And so if I'm going to be smoking every day, I

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want it to be something that I can at least tell myself, Hey, this is less likely to cause

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a health problem in the future. We all have one body we've got to live in. And as we get

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older, it becomes really real that we may have some health challenges in the future.

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And that's crippling. I mean, life's great, right? You can have your bills paid and everything,

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but the health issue doesn't really matter. So I started smoking a lot of outdoor to soil

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grown and I noticed, you know, I was running every day at the time and I felt like I could

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just puff and run and it just wasn't really a problem. But if I was smoking some indoor

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hydro and at that particular point in time, I felt like maybe this is harsher, maybe this

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is a problem. And so that started my trip into organics. Now I won't say that, you know,

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smoking combustible in your lungs is something that's ever going to be perfectly smooth and

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good for you. So I respect, you know, people looking at other methods, drinking tea, or

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I definitely like edibles. But I think a lot of us, we feel similarly that like smoking

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gives you this dose control where, yeah, you might have 10, 15 minutes to kind of like,

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okay, well, don't ask me to do something for a few minutes, but then I'm good to go. Where

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edibles is the opposite. It's like, you don't really know. And then in an hour, you know,

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maybe it was not enough or maybe it's too much. And so edibles can be very interesting in

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that regards. So you should take like an oil I'd make from olive oil every morning, but

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less often lately.

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Yeah. I think the, uh, the herb smoking, it's a lot easier to control the consumption edibles.

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It all has a lot that has more variables. It has, if you got food in your stomach, if

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you don't have food in your stomach, if you're drinking caffeine or not, it just has more

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variables when you're eating it than it does when you're smoking it. And it's a lot faster

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to smoke it.

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Yeah. It has no ceiling either. So like, if you end up, obviously it's easy to control.

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You just eat that normal amount of edibles, but if you're not making them, or maybe just

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a buddy gift into you to know what the strength is, it's one of those things that you can

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overdo and it doesn't really have a ceiling. Like it can just keep going where when you

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smoke, I mean, at a certain point, it's not going to do any of them. You can just smoke

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and smoke and smoke and smoke and smoke and smoke, uh, but edibles can get a little weird.

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They take the urge off of wanting to smoke too. Is that a mouth, uh, fixation you stop

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that even with cigarettes. I've never given some people with some edibles and they're

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like, Oh man, I'm going four hours about smoking a cigarette. They just didn't have the urge

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to want to do that.

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Yeah. I think microdosing, a lot of people have been talking about micro dosing characteristics

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and helping people that are quitting something. Um, I don't know, you know, but it does seem

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that microdosing, that's something else I do occasionally psilocybin where some weeks

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I will, some months I won't, but it's one of those things that is like that. You can

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kind of bring it into your life as opposed to having to be dependent upon it. So exactly.

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I have, I've tried the same. It's been readily available since it's been legalized here and

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even the year before that. So it's easy and there's a lot of people not afraid to talk

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about it. So a 0.2 gram, a milligram micro dose in the morning. It's kind of like an

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edible. Definitely calms the nerves, keeps you from being in a hurry and a rush. It definitely

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helps me concentrate and think a little clearer. It re networks the wiring in your brain somehow.

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Definitely. I feel like even a very small one, a lot of times there's more positivity,

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a little more smiling, a little bit more like focused thought without the anxiety, but our

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minds are complex, man. It's like being human is a lot to it.

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There's some people that are micro dosing the edibles. I mean, I can't do it. My edible

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consumption is a little higher because I've been consuming for 30 years, but just getting

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into cannabis barely makes it like five milligram edible, a little CBD one to one. Oh man, it

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hits some people just right. And it really does help some people calm down. After consuming

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for a while, your tolerance does get up. Yeah, it totally does. I mean, I remember when

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I was younger, a lot of my friends would be like, yeah, man, I'm taking a tolerance break.

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Just that way their herb would be stronger again. And I'm like, fuck that. I don't want

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to take a break. I switch up the method. I've found out and

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listened to some other podcasts, smoking all, I don't know if you've heard of the girls

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over at smoking all and Andy, they have a podcast and they're, they're PhD scientists

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and they do a lot of research and they're studying the effects of consuming in different

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ways. So you smoke it out of a bowl. The temperature is just a little bit different than it is

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smoking out of a bung. Yup. Getting out of a joint, smoking out of a blunt. So if you

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switch it up, I've noticed smoking blunts and bongs for a month and then I'll smoke

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a bowl of the same weed. And I'm like, Oh man, it just hit a little different.

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Yep. No, I concur. I think switching varieties and then switching methodologies. And I even

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noticed early on when I first started smoking, like you'd be hanging out in your house where

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your, your mind knows where everything's at, where your couch is, where your kitchen's

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at and you're hanging and you smoke. And it's one thing, but all of a sudden you go to somebody's

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house, never been to out of a piece you've never smoked out of it. It's going to be your

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same herb. And all of a sudden you're like, woo, totally another level of head change.

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And a lot of us have experienced that kind of like drinking at the bar. You step off

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the bar. So you're like, Whoa, okay. Maybe I had more, one more drink than I thought.

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Same thing. Occasionally that'll happen is you'll be on a weekend, just in your own zone,

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crushing stuff off of your to-do list, you know, be smoking and then you'll head into

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town or something. You're like, Oh, Hey everybody. I'm a little bit more high than I thought.

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Who are these people? Just that have you ever had an experience when you over-consumed or

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you felt uneasy or like, Oh, I'm going to die. And you want to call the hospital or

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have you ever been around anybody that's been in that situation? No, I've had some issues

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where I was uneasy when I first started. And I'll bring up a story that I think is kind

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of funny, but I've never really been around anybody that's had that happen. I can imagine

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with edibles and you know, the newer generation, a lot more access, there could be some crazy

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experiences. But you know, I always knew what I was getting myself into. My friends were

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either more older than me or whatever the case was where that wasn't likely. I did,

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I remember when I first started smoking, my roommate at the time, he had this like three

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foot blue bong. And I remember that I would smoke kind of like a quarter bowl or like

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a little half snap out of it. And we were getting ready to go to the movies. And I was

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like, fucking, I'm just going to like smoke an entire bowl to myself, you know. And at

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that time, it was like, we just smoked a little personals. And that was like the big thing

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instead of trying to share it all, you know, and you get in half, you just smoke a little

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personal. So I packed a brimmer and I didn't have very much tolerance at all. I was just

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kind of venturing further than I had before. And I remember like, barely being able to

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walk through this outdoor mall, get to the movies. And I don't remember even the opening

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scene. I just remember waking up with the credits just completely passed out. And then

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I was fine afterwards, but walking there, I will never forget like, oh my God, how do

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I buy the ticket? People are looking at me just kind of that feeling, right? Just too

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much. Since then, that's never happened again from smoking. I just think that that was,

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you know, an increase in tolerance and was fairly early on in my smoking career, so to

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speak.

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I think that's a common thing where newbies or people just starting to smoke. I remember

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in high school smoking and man, everybody knows I'm stoned. Everybody's staring at

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me. I remember walking through the fairgrounds with a couple of friends, just like, oh man,

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everybody is staring at us. But nobody was. It was just all in your brain.

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I think that's a good lesson for life too. I think as a kid, a lot of times with even

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about smoke, you start thinking people care and wondering and they're judging me and all

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these things, right? That exists out there. And sometimes cannabis can bring that anxiety

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level up if you're super high and now you're in a situation where you're not really sure.

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And then you add that back in the day, the law and the fear of someone knowing what's

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going on, you know?

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And that still exists in a lot of states.

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It does, believe me, you know, but just in my reality, right? And so, yeah, definitely.

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And then edibles, I've had some times where it's just taken me a lot further than I anticipated

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for a lot more hours than anticipated. And it was fine. It was nothing like over the

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edge, but I've just definitely had some experiences. And I've had a couple of times where you just

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wake up, you know, falling asleep, eating too many edibles. And you're like, holy shit,

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am I doing the right thing with my life? What's going on with my whole world? And a little

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bit of those like rushing thoughts coming. But yeah, I think that's what you get a little

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older and the responsibility sits in. Maybe you got a kid or something and then you're

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like, oh, you're really thinking more about that responsibility and what I'm doing with

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my life. I think it happens when you're about 26 to 28. I mean, that's when your brain fully

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develops as a human.

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Well, and it's important, right? I mean, if you don't question whether what you're doing

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is wrong or right, you can be left on the wrong path for too long. And a lot of people

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do that. And cannabis helps us think about things, but it doesn't always help us make

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decisions. At the end of the day, you've got to just do personal development and think

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about what you want in your life.

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I think the psilocybin does that too. It actually helps you think about it, but actually put

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it in motion instead of just thinking about it and like, yeah, I need to quit coffee.

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I need to quit smoking cigarettes, but then you do this. You just keep doing it. So psilocybin

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will help you to focus on what you need to do and actually set it in motion.

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Yep. And I think gardening teaches a lot of that too. You know, when you're growing a

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plant and you realize you can't skip a couple of days just because and there's consequences

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to it starts to shape up the discipline in your life. And a lot of times we know what

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we want. It's weird. We have two parts of the brain. And it's funny. My dad used to

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tell me growing up, Hey, you always listen to your little voice. Most important thing

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I can teach you. But I joke, I joke with him saying, Hey, you never told me that there

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was two fucking voices. And there's one that's kind of like your inner little bitch or you're

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in a little weakness. That's like trying to, it just knows all of your insecurities. It

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knows like, Hey, you should just sleep in. Hey, you don't want to do that last set at

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the gym or all that last bit of work. It's late in the day. Just do it tomorrow. And

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there's the other set that reminds you of your goals. And if you start to listen to

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one more than the other, I think you can train it. And I've gone through phases of my life

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where like success has bred the weaker voice. Like, Hey, you've earned it. You can take

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some time off. And I've also had times in my life where I'm like, I just want to be

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savage. Like I just want to do everything that I say I'm going to do and know that I'm

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getting closer to my goals. And so I think it's important to know both those voices exist

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in our brain. And if we're only listening to one of them explicitly, maybe we're going

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down the wrong path. They're both there for a reason. You know, the one doesn't want you

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to waste energy. The other one doesn't want you to waste opportunity. You get too far

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down one side. And it can be a problem. And I think that a lot of times smoking cannabis,

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just being able to think about these things in the chaos that day to day life make a huge,

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huge difference. But other times, just like a cup of coffee, like I said, you're just

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doing it to maintain normalcy. So,

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So you came to Colorado, you started up build a soil. What was the, the push behind that?

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What you said you wanted the healthiest? I think that's a big thing with a lot of cannabis

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users. They want to put the healthy thing they can in their body. That's once you start

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doing that with cannabis, you start doing it with your plant, you see how it affects

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your plants really quickly. And then you put that correlation into your own body, which

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is a little bit slower, but it's, it's there. If you don't use yourself enough water, you

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start to wrinkle up and you start to get wrinkles in your face. You drink more water, your bags

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under your eyes starting to go away. I know I've drank water for six months with nothing

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else. The bags under your eyes go away. Your skin becomes clearer. You lose weight.

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Yes.

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Not just water.

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A lot of these you see in the garden, because it's a shorter timeline. Like you said, you

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can see an entire life process in a few months and you realize, wow, one deficiency or lack

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of attention and you'd start to lose a lot of health and the leaves start to fade and

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issues happen. And it's hard not to correlate that to your own life. I wonder if some of

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these lack of nutrition, maybe what is a day in a plant life is several years for us, but

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there's certainly correlation. If you just go on a binge of staying up too late, not

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getting up on time, being rushed in the mind, eating fast food, drinking all the time, your

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body is going to show it like a plant who's not being tamed properly. And the good news

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is any of us that have grown plants, once we make that decision to change and be disciplined,

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you can nurse a plant around from unhealth back to full raging health and take off again.

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The trick is not to stop the discipline once it's healthy again. And I think that's part

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of life as well, is just sticking to it in a consistent day-to-day fashion. And it's

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a lesson I'm not trying to preach. I'm more sharing struggles that I have while human.

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Exactly. And so I'm not perfect by any means, but I'm aware of that. And that's part of

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what keeps me on the path. That's why I'm trying to get the message out there so people

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can see how cannabis consumers use cannabis on a regular basis to help their lives and

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they can assimilate and stop these bad things that they're doing. I quit drinking maybe

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eight, seven years ago. I drank way too much and cannabis really helped me.

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Well, for me too, I'm athletic. Like I do jujitsu at least three days a week. I'd like

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to go four or five if schedule allows. And I noticed that if I have a glass of wine or

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two the night before, my wedding ring, it won't quite fit right. I can't take it off

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that easily. And that's an indication of some of the inflammation. And when I start to grapple,

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I'll notice that maybe I'm just not quite as flexible. And that leads to more residual

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pain and stuff because I'm getting older and grappling is not that easy on the body. And

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so really when I was in college, I would look around and I'd go to parties and I realized

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that man, the designated drinker or the designated driver, designated drinker, the DD, the designated

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driver, we'd all like pick, okay, it's your turn. To me, that was the person playing Russian

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roulette with all of our lives that night. They weren't going to not drink once they

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got to the party. They were just going to be the one taking all the risks that night

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by driving the car. And I thought, I cannot do this. I'm just going to drive myself and

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I'll smoke. And two things would happen. One, maybe I'd tell myself I'd have a drink just

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so I could be mingling at the party and I'd start smoking as well. And I'd be like, yeah,

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the circle, everybody's outside. We're passing the joint around or whatever. Then I'd be

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like, fuck, where's my drink? I don't know, man. Like, and so it kept me from drinking.

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And I really do think that drinking is significantly more problematic for life. It's a great time.

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Don't get me wrong. I mean, having a few drinks when I was younger and being a lot more social

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helps lubricate the mind and just not give a fuck and have a lot more fun. But DUI, several

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of my friends had multiple DUIs and really ruined their life over it. And I would see

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that. And it's not like they didn't smoke either. To me, I just kind of gravitated towards

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cannabis as, hey, if we're all going to recreate, we're all going to drink, we're all going

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to have some fun, let loose. This one seems to not affect my athletic life. It seems to

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not affect, like I don't have a hangover in the morning. Maybe I could argue that if I

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smoke like a whole bunch right before I'm about to fall asleep, getting up is slightly

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harder, but it seems more to be like a mental desire as opposed to like I'm physically just

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hung over or whatever. So it's just more forgiving across the board for me.

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Yeah, I think a lot of athletes use it too. It helps them to recover because it relaxes

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their muscles. It helps their muscles to recuperate quicker after lifting weights. A lot of bodybuilders,

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Arnold Schwarzenegger, it's known fact that Michael Phelps, a lot of athletes use it to

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de-sit, just to relax. And their muscles do work better. I think it is actually an enhancing

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drug. It helps people to perform better.

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It's interesting because a lot of these athletes like Hinchujitsu steroids is just overused.

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It's ridiculous because it's not as professional of a sport with all the testing. And a lot

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of these athletes are like, yes, CBD droppers and they're advertising. And you're like,

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bro, you took like 10 injections of steroids this morning. I think your recovery is probably

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going to be fine. But as average athletes, it's like, you need to take every little bit

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you can get. I've got this Tiger's Blood CBD cream or a balm that Tumix, TSK is a breeder

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as well. But I've just used it for like the last six, seven years. It's one of my favorite

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products and it really helps if I have a muscle injury.

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I like the CBD too. CBD actually helps you if you overconsume too much THC, you can fix

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a little CBD. It'll help to calm you down and take the effects away from the THC. So

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I do that when I'm out and partying and there's recreational smoking blunts and so much smoke

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around and you start to get a little, I'll take some CBD. It helps to bring me back a

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little bit instead of being so tired. So your soil, was that the first product that you

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started to develop when you came to Colorado? Was it soil or was it nutrients? Were you

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more focused on outdoor? Because I know you said the outdoor and the indoor. I'd actually

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read a nice little review that came out, a journal paper about a week ago about outdoor

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and indoors, that same strain grown side by side.

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I didn't think it was a good study on my initial review. I wanted to.

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The sesquiterpenes or something like that.

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Yeah, but the challenges is in that study, they said it was a proprietary soil mix of

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organic matter, whatever, probably just a living soil. And then also some proprietary

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indoor. I'm like, can't we just do living soil indoor and outdoor? So we see if there's

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a correlative difference. I almost think it was like a hydro versus soil study. But since

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you split it with two variables, one hydro, one soil, and then one outdoors, one indoors,

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it kind of blew me away. They're talking about the degradation and oxidation of the indoor

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of some of the cannabinoids were outdoors. You had a lot more nuances and different cannabinoids

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that were created. I think anybody that's grown the same genetic indoors and outdoors,

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they notice there's something special about the outdoor, the sun, the environment. It

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creates a really warm, well-connected like glow. It feels good when you smoke outdoor.

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And I think that's part of it.

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There's a warm fuzzy body feeling.

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Yeah, obviously dirt, bugs, all the other stuff. It's not like indoors perfect, but

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there's this trade-off. And so I think that a lot of us that are growing in the living

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soil, we've noticed this connection and we're hoping to bring as much of that to our indoor

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garden as possible. And although I love the study, that's kind of what I was frustrated

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with. It was like, man, I wonder if the living soil indoor had as many of the benefits as

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the outdoor grown living soil in comparison to the hydro. But most of us have understood

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that if you're growing in straight hydro without the benefits of some organic additives, a

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lot of times the terpene level and the cannabinoid profile is much more narrowed and we don't

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like it as much. And these are nuanced things. And so a lot more experienced growers that

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have that internal judgment from batch to batch, smoke to smoke and have experience,

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they tend to guide towards some preference. And when you're growing your own, you should

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just grow the way you want. So it makes sense to me.

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Soil was not the first product that we made. Build a soil was originally designed to help

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others build their own soil. And what I didn't expect is to people to say, well, I don't

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care what's in it, just tell me what to make. And I just want it to work. And so originally

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I was like, well, we'll put anything you want. We'll put this, we'll put that, we'll make

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with this compost. And most people were saying, look, I don't know what to choose on this

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list. Can you just make the best soil ever for cannabis? And I was hesitant because early

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on I realized cannabis is an annual flowering plant. While we feel it's very special and

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it is, it's not special in that regard. You know, you can just grow a regular plant and

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as long as that grows healthy, then that's going to work for cannabis as well. And I

381
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remember in the beginning, a lot of people were like, yeah, but this genetic, it likes

382
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a higher level of calcium in the soil. And if you add this, then that particular strain

383
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will do. And I mean, maybe there's some nuance there, but realistically we're talking about

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thousand variables of environmental differences from which type of grow light outdoor, indoor,

385
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all these things that could change. And so I was kind of hesitant, but we eventually

386
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started making soil on a tarp in my garage and people would say, Hey, can you just make

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me like three or four yards of this? And I'd be out there with a shovel, getting the ingredients

388
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together, mixing it, and they'd come pick it up, drive over, get it in trash bags in

389
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,360
the back of their truck, whatever it took. And eventually that turned into us wanting

390
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,600
to have somebody that could do it instead of me, because I was running the business

391
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,600
and I can only do a couple of batches every once in a while. And so we brought an employee

392
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:53,960
in or a couple of them. Oh, sorry about that. And they would basically just make the soil

393
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,840
in a big feeding trough, like a, almost like rowing a boat. It was, you know, 10, 12 feet

394
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,280
long and it was rectangular and fairly narrow. So you kind of sit on the edge and you can

395
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,000
use a shovel and you can shovel one way and you can get on the other side and move all

396
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,960
the soil back. And that was our way of just getting it all mixed together. And eventually

397
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,560
that led to looking at some batch soil mixing machine, but living soil, the way that we

398
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:21,800
saw that it was taught, it included 20 to 35% compost, like lots of compost. And then

399
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,560
on top of that, almost a hundred pounds of rock dust and then pumice and lava rock and

400
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:34,120
heavy things. So we'd get our first soil mixer. We loaded up, it was supposed to be like a

401
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,080
one yard soil mixer. We could mix like a half yard in it because it would just seize the

402
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,360
whole motor up, break the machine if we tried to do it. And so we realized, hey, this might

403
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,080
be harder for other people to do. Maybe we could have a way to make us a living soil.

404
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:51,520
And eventually soil testing got involved. And that's where we really learned enough

405
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,680
to make a duplicatable, consistent product because, you know, you sell a couple of truck

406
00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:00,280
loads of soil and then you have to find a different compost or you have to get enough

407
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,520
rock dust and then, you know, we're talking organics. So they're slightly different. It's

408
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:08,880
not like the same exact chemical each time. So to do that, we had to learn more. And at

409
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,520
each step of the way, we've not been scared of that. We've just learned more, dug in,

410
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,400
gotten better and gone further. And now we have a whole soil building indoors here in

411
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:21,280
Colorado with a pretty sophisticated machinery line that you fill all the hoppers with the

412
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,760
different ingredients and it drops them into like a, like a cake that goes down a conveyor

413
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:31,320
and it puts water on it and it goes through a mixing head. And one of the other big challenges

414
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:41,200
that kept us from making this early, early on was, was really the fact that it took several

415
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,920
weeks to cook afterwards. So like our 3.0 recipe, it takes almost three weeks. It's

416
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:51,640
crazy. So did you start with the light weight? I know. So we were making only the Clackamas

417
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,760
toot recipe in the beginning. We made the LoS Ollie and the LoS Malibu, the living organic

418
00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:02,880
soil. And that was basically the exact recipes we got off the forum. That was one third compost,

419
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:08,240
one third peat moss and one third aeration. We use pumice and rice holes. We mix all that

420
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:14,040
together with kelp and neem and crustacean and basalt and gypsum and all the standard

421
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,960
ingredients. And that was our first offering. It worked really well. And that one, you didn't

422
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:23,880
have to cook as much. What year was that? So 2013, 2014. Yeah.

423
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:29,440
So 10 years ago. It was about six years ago. I went around on

424
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,000
a spree trying to find living soil. That's about when I got into living soil and I could

425
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:40,680
not find a bag of living soil on the shelf, pre-made six years ago here in Denver or in

426
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,680
the high country. Yeah. And so super soil was popular when I

427
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,520
first started this and there was like a green Avengers soil that came out, but you know,

428
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,440
just whipping a whole bunch of stuff in a soil is different than making it at your house.

429
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,680
And a lot of people would have problems with copious amounts of nutrients being mixed into

430
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:59,440
a super soil and not everyone understanding how to layer it and all these challenges.

431
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:04,120
That's part of what gravitated a lot of the forums into the living soil style was we were

432
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:08,040
like, doesn't nature put the heavy food on top, not in the bottom? And isn't there a

433
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,720
better way to go about doing this? But so many of the original recipes were a laundry

434
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:18,120
list of items that you could buy at any garden center and then dump them all in a pile. And

435
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:22,120
so it served its purpose. If you were not able to talk about this, you got some secret

436
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:27,200
list online. You could go to ace hardware, go to the local garden store, go to the big

437
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,560
box store, buy some castings, buy some, you know, Mike or eyes. I, if they had it buy

438
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:37,240
a whole bunch of different things and mix it in a pile. And so those original recipes,

439
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:42,000
they started being based off of a bag potting soil as the base. And so you wouldn't just

440
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:47,680
go by peat moss and aeration. You would buy like roots, organics or Fox farm or whatever.

441
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,840
And you would dump that in the pile and then you'd soup that up. I think that led to some

442
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,680
problems because not every bag of potting soil was the same. Then you'd add a whole

443
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,860
bunch of stuff to it. It was kind of like going to the store and buying a whole bunch

444
00:33:57,860 --> 00:34:02,080
of canned soup and then mixing them all together and then adding the meat and saying that you're

445
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:07,840
a chef. And so eventually when it comes down to it, now all the soil companies, none of

446
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,880
them buy, I mean, maybe they are, but the few living soil companies that have come out

447
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,040
of the woodwork, they're not just buying somebody else's soil and mixing stuff into it. That's

448
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,720
what was done because of the hole in the market. And so now we sell like a take a big kit where

449
00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:24,820
you can get all the stuff to your house and you can open up the raw peat moss, break it

450
00:34:24,820 --> 00:34:29,240
up with your hands, put the compost in and really go through that experience. And while

451
00:34:29,240 --> 00:34:33,080
I love that we have bag potting soil, it's great, but we mix it here. We put it in a

452
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:38,040
bag. It sits there until it gets to you. Something about taking the raw ingredients, understanding

453
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:43,080
the ratio, breaking it up with your own two hands, moistening yourself, seeing it come

454
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:48,200
to life and warm up and all the biology that's involved and tending to it every day while

455
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,320
you're getting excited to plant into it. I feel that really connects people to the original

456
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,560
emotions that we had when we were starting to build our own soil or build a soil. So

457
00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,120
I really encourage a lot of our customers to look at those kits. You can buy some compost.

458
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,900
There's some nutrients from us. You can go get the peat moss locally. There's a million

459
00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:07,600
ways to do this. When I first started, a lot of us were going up like into the national

460
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,600
forest and getting a little leaf litter from under a tree here, some rock dust there and

461
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,680
putting it in our soil pile. But as build a soil, I'm hesitant to tell everybody from

462
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:21,320
every city, just drive to every nature and start digging it up. So I do like that our

463
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,400
soil works great out of the bag. Building it yourself is really exciting.

464
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,960
So when you say cook, what exactly do you mean by cooking it?

465
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:34,160
Yep. So it's basically composting, homogenizing, coming together. We have a lot of biology

466
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:38,160
and so when you mix a big soil pile together, a lot of these amendments are powdered and

467
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:44,760
they're just dried up, ground up organic inputs like chopped up seeds would be a seed meal.

468
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,880
Alfalfa is just the alfalfa all chopped up and dried. And so when you add those to the

469
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:53,460
soil, it's not like there's nutrients in the soil. There's just ground up organic matter.

470
00:35:53,460 --> 00:35:58,320
That organic matter kind of has to go through a biological breakdown process. And when you

471
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:03,580
make the soil and you add lots of stuff, it can start to create ammonia and all these other

472
00:36:03,580 --> 00:36:08,280
problems and actually heat up. And there's thermophilic bacteria in there that as they

473
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,760
consume, they create waste and they start to breathe, consume oxygen. And so it can

474
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,200
make it get warm and it can make it so your plants can't really breathe. And what's interesting

475
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,560
is the original like Coot's recipe, it didn't have like the crustacean meal is more of a

476
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:26,200
calcium source, the neem cakes, the seed meal, but that actually has some inhibiting effects

477
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:30,560
to ammonium in the nitrogen process. If you research neem, some people think it's a problem.

478
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:36,200
I think it's a benefit. But that's part of why the Coot's mix, you never had to cook.

479
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,080
You just mix it and plant into it. Still, if you waited a week or so, it seemed to be

480
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:45,320
more forgiving. But the super soil, if you didn't wait, I mean, your plants would fry

481
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:50,680
because realistically, if you put a super soil in a three by three pile, so it's a cubic

482
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:55,400
yard three by three by three, when you learn about composting, what you find is that you

483
00:36:55,400 --> 00:37:00,780
can't just jump dump some kitchen scraps in a pile and expect compost. You can dump kitchen

484
00:37:00,780 --> 00:37:05,900
scraps in a pile for a couple of years and eventually the biology and everything turns

485
00:37:05,900 --> 00:37:10,640
it into compost through slow composting. But most thermophilic compost that we're used

486
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,840
to the high quality stuff, it's made over a couple of months period and it's done by

487
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:20,560
adding the right amount of carbons and the right amount of nitrogen for Browns and greens.

488
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,880
When you learn the ratios and you just say a layer of Browns, layer of greens, layer

489
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,320
of Browns, layer of greens, then you have to turn it every day because when you get

490
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:33,000
it right and you get the moisture right, it goes up to almost 160 degrees. And compost

491
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,600
makers, they know it'll go past 160 if they don't turn it. And that can actually start

492
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:43,120
to ruin the compost where in that 120 to 160, it's in that like composting phase, actively

493
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,640
composting. And so if you keep turning it where the outside that's not as biological

494
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:52,760
gets mixed to the inside of the engine in that three by three by three pile, that's

495
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,000
the minimum size. So if you were to just stack Browns and greens in a five gallon bucket

496
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:02,240
and set it there, nothing would happen. It's something about the volume in nature that

497
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:08,040
creates enough of this reaction that it starts to really heat up. And so when we mix soil

498
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:13,560
together, super soil with all those carbon inputs that are organic nutrients, and some

499
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:18,440
of them high nitrogen, you're now getting carbons and nitrogens in a potting soil and

500
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,200
you start to basically compost right there in the pile. And so they call it cooking because

501
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:27,680
it'll actually get hot. But what's interesting is, you may not notice that in a five gallon

502
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:32,800
bucket, it can just be off. And what I mean by that is in a three by three by three, if

503
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,840
you were to build a cubic yard of super soil, it'll get 150 degrees. But if you just make

504
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,960
like a 10 gallon batch, it's not enough volume and it may just get mildly warm and it may

505
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,920
take a long time to go through that process. And I've noticed that if you just plant a

506
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,440
plant right into a pretty good rich mix without cooking it, it'll just act like it's out

507
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,720
of air, even though it's not over water and it'll get burned because it's actually getting

508
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:58,800
hot around the root zone. And really what I think is happening if the heat's not excessive

509
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:04,200
is it's not physically burning it with heat. It's the soil is still kind of cooking or

510
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,320
homogenizing is composting, which means that the microbes are eating first. They're one

511
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,360
of town they're turning all that into food, but it's not food yet. And so your plant is

512
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:17,200
kind of like just hanging out waiting for the soil to become soil. And whether you have

513
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:22,720
to cook or not, we know that if you wait more time, whether it needed it or not, it's probably

514
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:27,720
more together, more balanced and moisture and the biology is proliferated and it's ready

515
00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:31,360
to go. So it's part of the build a soil way. If you're going to make your own soil, we

516
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,320
recommend giving it a week or two before you plant into it. Then you're going to have really

517
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:35,320
good experience.

518
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,080
Yeah. A lot of people don't know that I've had some bad experience by pre prepped super

519
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:44,800
soil burned up a lot of roots. You can see it just leaves look burned. They start to

520
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:49,560
turn brown and crisp and crispy and, and a nutrient burn. It's

521
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,720
Yeah. So like our build a soil light, we can make right off the line and put it right into

522
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:58,600
a bag. It's great. The balance is so ideal that we're not going to go thermal, really

523
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:04,720
finished compost in it. But in 3.0, we have multiple compost sources and a lot more organic

524
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:10,080
inputs. And so if we run that off the line into a cubic foot bag, it'll actually perform

525
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,440
okay. But if someone dumps 20 of those cubic footers into a pile, like for a big bed of

526
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,760
soil, it'll get hot. And so that's, you know, one of the natures of the beast is I think

527
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,440
that people that are growing this way should just be aware of these things. So they don't

528
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:27,760
ruin their own crop. But what we do to offset that, if we run the 3.0 into big yard tote

529
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:32,240
sacks and we let it sit in that cubic yard sack until it's finished getting warm and

530
00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:35,720
we measure temperature. At that point, we dump it back in the hopper, run it through

531
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:40,520
the bagging machine. So it's already cooked before we bag it. That's a huge issue. I mean,

532
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,920
to buy a truckload of compost, truckload of peat moss in the middle of winter, have it

533
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,680
show up, have it processed, have it made into soil, have it sit there for three weeks, have

534
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,320
it re-bagged and allocate which one of those are the finished product when somebody wants

535
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:58,200
it today. You know, it's a lot of logistics and value to be adding to a pot of soil that

536
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,160
most people think is worthless. It's like, well, it's dirt. I mean, can I buy it for

537
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:05,120
like five bucks? You're like, dude, I had to have an entire business just to funnel

538
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,440
all these things and a whole bunch of money to pay for all these, then mix it together,

539
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:14,000
then cook it, then put it in. So building your own takes all that risk out and allows

540
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,640
you to go through that process yourself. And I think you really see the value in it at

541
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:18,640
that point.

542
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:25,640
So, I have a couple of clients that I consult. They love building soil. And when I get a

543
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:31,760
new client, I've already explained it to them, but I wanted you to spit it out. What type

544
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:34,160
of soil do you recommend for germinating seeds?

545
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,760
Okay, this is a good question. And this is one that's challenging for me to answer because

546
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,640
I never want to hurt someone, right? I never want to tell them to do something and have

547
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:45,760
them have a bad result. But I can pop seeds right now 3.0 or light soil. I actually really

548
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,840
like using build a soil light to start seeds. It's one of my favorites.

549
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:49,840
I've done the 3.0.

550
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,560
It works, right? But if you lose one seed and they're expensive, you're like, I wonder

551
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:59,680
if it was the soil and putting the seeds in a very biologically rich soil. You know, you

552
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:04,000
might have one that was the weak seed that may have been very weak and it gets eaten

553
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,720
by something that's living in the soil because a little moist gets in there. So it's possible.

554
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:12,280
And that's why a lot of people like in bulk commercial operations, they always sterilize

555
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:17,080
everything so they don't lose a million dollars of seeds. But for us home growers, I mean,

556
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:18,080
man, everybody's

557
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,320
Especially a breeder. You don't want that weak one. So I like it. It actually, I like

558
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:28,000
that. I want the strong genetic seeds. Just pop it straight in soil. You're buying seeds

559
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,880
and spending a large part of your budget. That's where you get people using like paper

560
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:38,000
towels and every method possible. I prefer to go right to soil and have some faith. We

561
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:44,120
do offer what's called our heady starts seedling soil. And that one we made just because a

562
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:48,720
lot of times if you're starting vegetable seeds or things, you need to have a flat with

563
00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:53,300
a like 72 or 100 little tiny little seedling holes in it and you need to put a whole bunch

564
00:42:53,300 --> 00:42:58,440
of seed in there. And so this is a pro mix. And then we add in some worm castings and

565
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,900
we add in some Montana grow volcanic rock dust. And we put in a little bit of nutrients

566
00:43:02,900 --> 00:43:07,600
that has this phosphorus that really helps the rooting. And it works great. It holds

567
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:12,360
a little more water than I like, but that's good if you just set it and forget it. And

568
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:16,040
it works really well. I've had phenomenal success using that with large seed runs where

569
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:21,400
I got a very high percentage of germination. But at my house, is it a little sorry, sorry

570
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:27,840
about that. It's a little less hydrophobic. Like does it? Yeah, it absorbs the water immediately.

571
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,680
All living soil is a little hydrophobic. So that's one thing when you water it, it likes

572
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,840
to go right to the bottom. Once it's balanced, the soil will absorb water properly. But all

573
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:41,680
fresh living soils, we're not adding a chemical wetting agent like these potting soil companies.

574
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:47,660
And so even if we add a wetting agent, it breaks down, it's not going to be active anymore.

575
00:43:47,660 --> 00:43:52,720
That's kind of just for the initial wedding. But a chemical one can persist. And so it

576
00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:58,080
can have the ideal qualities to receive water right away where any living soil, you know,

577
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,000
we've experimented a lot around here. If we put too much water in the soil, then it costs

578
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,400
the customer a lot in freight just to ship the water. If we make it too dry, then when

579
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,920
they get it, they can't get it wet. They just keep putting water on it. Unless you actually

580
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:13,300
get your hands in there, it's hard to get it to absorb. Once it's absorbed, it's fine.

581
00:44:13,300 --> 00:44:18,640
So for us, from a quality control perspective, it's ideal to have the moisture perfect and

582
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,280
then put it into a bag where it's likely to preserve that. But we have to have little

583
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,960
micro holes in the bags because we don't want it to go anaerobic, be sealed in an enclosed

584
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,920
environment. So for what it's worth, those that are gardening at home, if they buy a

585
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,040
bag of potting soil, one of the first things they should do is make sure they address the

586
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,740
moisture. If you just take a bone dry bag and throw a plant into it, it may never receive

587
00:44:37,740 --> 00:44:41,880
the water properly and have dry pockets. If you just take a bag and it feels super wet

588
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,960
and just dump water straight into it, it might hold a decent amount of water. And that's

589
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,480
the one big learning curve, I think, with living soil is understanding that. And all

590
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,960
of the nutrient cycling is dependent upon. You drown them in water, they won't get it.

591
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:59,280
You don't give them enough. It's almost a hot soil because there's barely any water

592
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:00,280
with the available nutrients.

593
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:07,920
Yeah, I'll pour some in the bag, let it sit for a little bit. Then I'll mix it up, make

594
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,120
sure it's nice and moist before you can even like fold the bag back down and shake it around

595
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:15,180
a little bit. I'll just flip it upside down and keep turning it. So if there's any water

596
00:45:15,180 --> 00:45:17,520
selling at the bottom, it'll just go right back to the top.

597
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,240
And that's part of what I think I like in the Build a Soil way we explain, hey, get

598
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:26,400
your container built, get it moist and nice, get it in the environment so it's like warm,

599
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,240
not ice cold. A lot of times we'll sprout a little cover crop in it so some roots get

600
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:34,720
in there. But when you do that, you're also taking care of the moisture issue by nature

601
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:38,920
just because you're giving yourself time where it's not an emergency. You're like watering

602
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:46,480
it slowly, checking on it. But if you just take a bone dry bag of soil and you have to

603
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,320
get transplanted that minute, it may be a couple of days of getting the moisture right,

604
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,800
but it'll still work. So yeah, I like the idea of getting it ready.

605
00:45:54,800 --> 00:46:00,120
Let the microbes get warm, get them nice and alive, get them some moisture so they can

606
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:05,000
start working and then put the plant in. Yeah, like when I make bread, Koot, the Clackamas

607
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:09,120
Koot, he taught a lot of the original recipes and had he just had so much good information

608
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:13,740
as to why these things worked. But he baked a lot of bread. And so he would correlate

609
00:46:13,740 --> 00:46:19,280
some of his understanding of yeast, single cell, real simple fungi, and how that might

610
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:23,800
correlate to the soil. And it's crazy. You take your starter for sourdough, you add a

611
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,840
little tiny bit of sourdough starter, whole bunch of flour and some water and set it there.

612
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:32,960
And by the end of the day, it's fully expanded. And it's a big starter to the point where

613
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,640
it's going to run out of food now. So you got to feed it again every day, sometimes

614
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:39,440
twice a day. It just depends on temperatures, all these things. So you start to think about

615
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:44,320
that. You're like, huh, my soil is alive, add a little water, get it the right temperature.

616
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:49,680
Will that ramp up like my sourdough starter did and be ready and teaming with life? I

617
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,920
think so. And when you see how quickly that can happen, it makes sense that we don't need

618
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:58,400
to be perfect. We just need to get the ideal conditions that nature kind of takes over.

619
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:04,240
So you start off with the what was the name of the seed starter mix again?

620
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:07,200
Okay, so the seed starter mix is our heady starts.

621
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:13,040
Okay, so you start with that. I usually leave mine in the container two to three weeks,

622
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,760
depending on how fast they are. And then you transplant them transplanted them into the

623
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,840
lightweight or 3.0. Correct? Those are the two other ones.

624
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,920
I like the light or the 3.0 depends on what my goals are.

625
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:28,720
So is the 3.0 something that you can put in a seven gallon bucket one plant and it will

626
00:47:28,720 --> 00:47:31,280
carry it through the whole lifecycle? Or do you have to amend?

627
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,720
For the most part? Yes, we build a soil we really shy away from saying water only. And

628
00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:40,040
what I mean by that is most people that I give that freedom to, they end up growing

629
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,640
which what's going to be like a half pound plant out of a seven gallon pot, it won't

630
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:49,560
sustain life to the end. But if you put a plant in our goal is to have a canopy that

631
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:54,760
mimics the size. So if you have one seven gallon in a four by four, and you vege it

632
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:59,200
for six weeks, scrogging it out, and then you flip the flower, there's no way the seven

633
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:03,600
gallon of 3.0 is going to support that. It's just too much biomass being taken out of the

634
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:09,120
container. But as far as going further than light and other soil recipes that are balanced,

635
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:13,560
yes, it has a lot more slow release in it that will continue to keep up with the plant.

636
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,440
And so a lot of people end up getting the 3.0 because they put that in a container,

637
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:21,000
they flip the flower on time, and they can run water only and they really, really like

638
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:28,320
it. Myself with 3.0 or with light, any of them, I like to use a larger container and

639
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:32,980
start to set up that top dress layer where the feeder roots can go up. And they can eventually

640
00:48:32,980 --> 00:48:37,520
get used to the food being on the top of the soil, not everywhere. And so the 3.0, I really

641
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:45,080
like it. It makes sense for a ton of reasons. The light soil, I think, gives people the

642
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,800
most flexibility in that their plants are perfectly healthy out of the light soil no

643
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,560
matter what, because it's not overdone for some genetics. And then they can add a little

644
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,600
bit to it. But some people, they're like, I don't want to, I don't know if I want to

645
00:48:55,600 --> 00:49:00,040
add and deal with all that. So just give me the 3.0. And at least it's done at the lab

646
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,840
with some balance where they're going to have good results for how much is in there. But

647
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:08,360
we like almost triple up the nutrients in there. And so in the light soil, you get a

648
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:12,560
lot more balance as far as immediately out the gate. Most every genetic should just be

649
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:16,680
very, very healthy. The whole leaf should be perfect. And that's really what I'm looking

650
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:21,800
for. You can do it with both. But I feel like a lot of our customers that go to 3.0, they

651
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,040
just want the best. They want it loaded. They don't want to worry about it. And a lot of

652
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,040
our customers that go with light, they go, oh, I immediately want to put some teas on

653
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:33,240
and top dress. And I'm worried about overdoing it if I get the 3.0. So I hope that makes

654
00:49:33,240 --> 00:49:36,280
sense. Like a lot of us are coming from hydro. We just want to tinker every day.

655
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:40,280
A lot of people like to put stuff in and they like to. And so you would get the 3.0 and

656
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:44,800
you start putting stuff in it every day. You know, you could overdo it. So, so, um, if

657
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:49,120
you do get the light, what are some products that you like to use with your, with your

658
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,720
soil? I know that you have root wise. I've seen you got down to Canna Con, talked to

659
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:57,320
Martin and uh, uh, miles from fermented plant extracts. You guys were all kind of together

660
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:03,240
there. And, uh, so do you, uh, you use the root wise? I've, uh, actually used the, uh,

661
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:07,960
biofoss root wise, which helped unlock the phosphorus. Correct. Yep. And there's other

662
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:12,200
reasons there's, there's definitely a whole plethora of organisms in that biofoss and

663
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:16,600
a lot of them are enzyme producers. And so a lot of the organic nutrients, they're going

664
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:21,760
to be broken down through an enzymatic process. And so the biology is important because they're

665
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:27,080
going to produce the enzymes to start the breakdown specific to that compound. Um, having

666
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:31,720
heavy enzyme producing bacteria makes a big sense, a lot of sense as well. And these will

667
00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:37,600
sometimes correlate in that functional group where some of them are creating more enzymes

668
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:41,420
to make it easier for the other ones to jump in. And it's like a family, there's different

669
00:50:41,420 --> 00:50:45,960
biology for each job. Like one biological function might break down the original ammonium

670
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,080
to nitrate. Another one might come in and release the phosphorus. And so when you go

671
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:53,880
to the hydro store, a lot of times you'll see this broken down in a different products.

672
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:58,320
You can buy the mycorrhizae, which is the fungi, and that's on healthy farms. And we

673
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:04,520
see them either go around the root or in the root, depending on the type. And so cannabis

674
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,840
prefers the mycorrhizal, um, there's endo or there's Ecto, right? So you look on the

675
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:13,000
bag of the mycorrhizae that you get in the root was those, the species that we're looking

676
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:17,000
for, for annual flowering plants, where if you get an endo Ecto, that's like for the

677
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:21,360
whole garden, it's for trees and it's also for annuals. And you, it's just kind of trying

678
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:25,240
to please everybody. And so early on I would pull up like Great White, all these other

679
00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:28,360
companies and they were just clearly bought like a gardening product and try to make a

680
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:32,640
cannabis label because it's everything. It's not just for cannabis. It's almost a waste

681
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:37,640
of money to buy stuff for a fruit tree that won't work at all with cannabis. Then you

682
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:42,360
realize, yeah, these scientists may not have it perfect. There's not one type of fungi

683
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:47,480
that works one way. Nature's not like that. So having a blend is good. A lot of these

684
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:52,200
will help with moisture, they'll help with disease and some of them will connect to the

685
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:56,040
plant, help them take up nutrients. And so the mycorrhizae is kind of the key one that

686
00:51:56,040 --> 00:52:00,880
we've all learned about, teeming with microbes, a lot of these other books made popular. But

687
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:06,720
there's also Azos or Azospirillum and there's a number of different species. There's bacillus,

688
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:10,720
there's trichoderma. And if you just go buy trichoderma and you dump it on your plant,

689
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:15,360
but yesterday you'd put a regular biological product, they're not in the right balance.

690
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:21,320
So they can now consume each other because nature's like that. So in the root-wise, you

691
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,680
get the right amount of trichoderma, you get the right amount of the mycorrhizae. You also

692
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,200
get the Azos, which you normally have to buy as another product. Those nitrogen fixtures

693
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:34,560
are in there as part of that functional group. And so the root-wise product, the reason why

694
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,920
it's our flagship microbial product is it follows the build a soil method where you

695
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:45,040
actually have an entire functional group. And all of that is what's leading to the success

696
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:49,200
instead of pretending like we know this one biology is all you need. And a lot of products

697
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:53,600
are like two or three bacillus and that's it. And all they are is a new marketing fad

698
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:58,000
for a year or so. But when we look at the root-wise and we look at the way build a soil

699
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:03,560
does it, we represent like, I was talking to my staff today and they were referencing

700
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:08,160
some deficiency charts because a customer had asked. And I said, you throw those away.

701
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:11,000
That's like Western, that's like going to the doctor and saying, my knee hurts, as

702
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,800
opposed to telling them that you were just skydiving the other day and you hit the ground

703
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,880
hard. He's going to start giving you a pill when all you need is a little rest. And so

704
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:22,200
if we were to look at living soil, as far as the nutrient component, we don't want to

705
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:28,080
just be like, I think it's magnesium. We need to keep a buffet full and allow the plant

706
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:32,400
to take what it likes. It's important to know which things it likes more and you might have

707
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:37,040
to replenish sooner rather than later. But for the most part, as long as we don't have

708
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:42,440
excessive sodium, excessive chloride, excessive carbonates, we can add enough nutrients of

709
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,840
all types and let the plant decide and I'll have everything that it needs. That's why

710
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:51,480
Kraftland works well. That's why the loaded soils work well. But when you start picking

711
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:55,480
and choosing, you better be right because sometimes it's not, it's not what you're

712
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:59,520
seeing. It's an antagonism or an overwatering or something locking it out, not just the

713
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:03,880
ingredient. And so when we look at root wise, I'm not just like, oh, we just need a nitrogen

714
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:08,280
fixer or oh, this mycorrhizae is going to fix it. It's all of them combined so that

715
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:13,040
we can create healthy farm conditions in a potting soil. Now, arguably over time, you

716
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:18,160
have worms in there and decay and all these things going on. You may not need to continually

717
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:23,560
add any sort of microbial product, but you know, we're indoors, it's artificial light

718
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:28,320
and you overwater and I mentioned the sourdough thing to you. Like it's amazing how quickly

719
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:32,760
life can proliferate. And so it's nice to know that, hey, if you overwater one time,

720
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:37,600
maybe you can add some root wise and bring the balance back and adding them all in allows

721
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:43,360
to keep that buffet full as opposed to maybe the soil going one direction. And we get really

722
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:47,760
good results with it. When I first started carrying root wise, I was kind of hesitant.

723
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:52,360
I'm like, you don't need anything except for good soil, good genetics, good environment

724
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:58,080
and some discipline. But I noticed that a lot of our customers that have a wider margin

725
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:03,120
for success on the over under watering and all these other things, if they had some help

726
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:08,800
from really good biology. When we first started, it was all brewing compost tea. That's what

727
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:14,800
everyone did. And it's still a thing, but you can quickly see how brewing it incorrectly

728
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:19,040
or whatever it starts to spike biology in one direction. And Coot always used to make,

729
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,120
he's like, man, why are you brewing these compost teas? Just put the worm castings on

730
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:27,120
the soil. That's what I started doing. Yeah. And so our soil is similar. Like we have the

731
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,160
root wise. We love it. All three of those products that work really, really well. We

732
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:35,720
could spend hours just talking about those. The biodiversity in soil makes it just more

733
00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:39,800
diversity makes it better. Like you said, the smaller sport, they can pick and choose

734
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:43,920
what they want. Yep. And then we have a 12 seed cover crop in permaculture. Having up

735
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,680
to 12 seeds gives you that diversity. So, you know, maybe one season, this seed does

736
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:52,400
better, maybe another one and it tracks bugs and pollinators and beneficials. So living

737
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:56,480
soil, this can give a home to a lot of your beneficial insects. And as you chop and drop

738
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:02,000
the cover crop into actual soil mulch that feeds the worms and it turns that decay into

739
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:07,640
new nutrients for your soil. So it never ever runs out of food and you keep the soil forever.

740
00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:11,360
Before the living soil craze, people would literally be looking for places to secretly

741
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:15,080
dump all their soil after the run because it's illegal to grow and you didn't want to

742
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:18,240
put it out for the trash guy to find because he'd know you're growing. So you'd have to

743
00:56:18,240 --> 00:56:22,520
drive around like behind Walmart or some shit, find a dumpster or like a creep or something.

744
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,440
And that's not good. You don't want people dumping stuff in the creek with chemical

745
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:29,960
nutrients. I just put in my regular garden. Yeah. It helped with my regular garden. Of

746
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:35,600
course. Of course. And then the other thing you do have a craft blend, you just mentioned

747
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:40,760
the craft blend. Is it a 13 or 12? I think it's 13. I think it's 13 ingredients. It might

748
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:45,700
be more. I was going to get one to talk about several in a row. I did get a bunch of diversity,

749
00:56:45,700 --> 00:56:49,720
you know, and it's done in balance. And so what we did is you can actually get a free

750
00:56:49,720 --> 00:56:55,400
report at Build a Soil on our blog. It's I think the most recent blog and it's a form.

751
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:59,720
But when you get the PDF, it explains the Steve Solomon way of making your own complete

752
00:56:59,720 --> 00:57:04,000
organic fertilizer. You know, as a human, we know like, oh, let me make a healthy meal

753
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:08,920
tonight. I need like a protein, some salad, you know, a carb like, and you can have a

754
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:13,560
well balanced meal has long-term energy, short-term protein, all the stuff. But if you ask somebody

755
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:18,580
how to make a fertilizer for your plants, what do you add? What's the, what's the standard

756
00:57:18,580 --> 00:57:24,700
balanced meal? And so that complete organic fertilizer tutorial teaches you via the Steve

757
00:57:24,700 --> 00:57:28,680
Solomon method from his intelligent Gardner book of providing some seed meal, has a little

758
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:33,320
bit of everything, providing some calcium source, providing a phosphorus source. And

759
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:38,400
when you do that, you have a really great, well-rounded, complete organic fertilizer.

760
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:43,640
And we add rock dust to that for all the trace minerals. It's everything all in one.

761
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,600
It's a big blend also, right? Yeah. And Kraft Blend is just a version of that with a lot

762
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:52,100
of diversity, tons of different ingredients. So when you top dress it on your soil or mix

763
00:57:52,100 --> 00:57:57,560
it in, you're feeding that biology, all these different ingredients. And we do have vegan

764
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:00,720
stuff, but a lot of times like what people don't realize is the soil in your backyard,

765
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:06,160
it has dead crustacean in it from previous eras. You know, a lake that used to be there.

766
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:12,480
Rabbit, rabbit turds. It's just rabbit, rabbit turds, worms, arthropods, all that. And to

767
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:17,640
compound it even further, like growing lettuce and taking those tractors on these big industrial

768
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:22,160
greens farms or berries or whatever, they're just slaughtering bunnies and homes of birds

769
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,520
and everything you can think of just while they're harvesting the greens. So I think

770
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:29,760
from a vegan perspective, growing your own is always a really good way to go. But I doubt

771
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:34,120
a vegan would want blood meal and bone meal growing their lettuce, especially when that

772
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:38,480
blood and bone comes from a slaughterhouse that has all the politics that they wouldn't

773
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:43,000
agree with. Being fed GMO corn through a political system that they'd rather vote out. And so

774
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:47,560
giving their grandparents cancer through all the chemicals. So when you fully connect

775
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:51,640
it, it's hard to see how they're, yeah, there's some emotion there. But vegan as far as soil

776
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:55,880
with all those politics aside, I don't think that's how you really build soil. But I do

777
00:58:55,880 --> 00:59:00,240
agree with a lot of it in the sense that a seed meal is very forgiving and makes a lot

778
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:04,440
of sense. But a fish meal, I mean, if you're catching your own fish out here in Colorado,

779
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,320
there's a lot of mining, there might be lots of heavy metals in it. You have to be kind

780
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,720
of careful. You don't want just a million pounds of the same exact fish from the same

781
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:17,440
location where plant based is very safe. When we send off for heavy metal testing, very

782
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:24,480
little gets up into the plant seed meal versus the raw ocean based or animal based amendments.

783
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:27,720
But like bone meals, great, I would love to use it. There's just no organic bone meal

784
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:33,520
out there. They say it's for organic use, but it's from non organically fed cattle

785
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:38,560
from the big slaughterhouses. So build a soil doesn't use it. We use a fish bone meal because

786
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:44,320
it's wild caught fish. But, you know, at the end of the day, regular bone meal would be

787
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:47,200
a little bit better because of the lack of sodium that comes in it. But there just isn't

788
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:51,280
a clean source. Guano, similar, like we don't use guano. I don't want my employees breeding

789
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:59,440
it and there's other reasons but sustainability. And you can choose to use some of these, but

790
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:03,200
it's just knowing why. And I feel like build a soil's mission is to provide the burden

791
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:07,680
of the knowledge and allow the consumer to decide what they'd like to do as opposed to

792
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:11,480
just being sold some bullshit and being lied to. You know, you go to the store and a lot

793
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:15,720
of these organic fertilizers, they are, you flip to the back, they're the cheapest ingredients

794
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,840
possible with like a tomato on the front for tomato fertilizer. It's like you need tomato

795
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:26,360
fertilizer. You just need annual flowering plant, regular fertilization. Same with cannabis.

796
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:31,640
But you'll read the back and it'll say, cotton seed meal. I mean, the heaviest GMO pesticide

797
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:36,040
spray probably sprayed at harvest day with a lot of soy too, right? Soy is similar. And

798
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:41,360
then you'll see a corn gluten meal or corn meal. And then you'll see which corn is GMO

799
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:45,760
around, you know, and then you'll see animal byproduct waste. You'll see meat meal, like

800
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:51,500
ground up meat and stuff in there that makes the protein. And so the further that you get

801
01:00:51,500 --> 01:00:56,180
down the rabbit hole of understanding why you got into growing organic, and then you

802
01:00:56,180 --> 01:01:00,960
find out that all the products on the market are actually like a regurgitation. And then

803
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:04,560
they sell it to you like, yeah, but we're using a waste and isn't that recycling? You're

804
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:08,440
like, yeah, but you can go recycle that shit somewhere else. I don't want your slaughterhouse

805
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:14,560
waste in my cannabis. And so I think a lot of our customers resonate with that. But many

806
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,840
of them didn't know. They just go, what do you mean? It says organic. You're like, no,

807
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:24,740
no, no, for organic use. The National Organic Program says that dead cow is now usable on

808
01:01:24,740 --> 01:01:29,920
an organic farm. It does not mean that or that cow was organically raised or humanely

809
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:30,920
raised. So,

810
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:37,400
So, uh, you mentioned heavy metals and, um, one thing when you're growing with salt, you

811
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:41,960
really want to flush it. And that's to get out your nitrogen, your phosphorus and your

812
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:46,200
potassium that's built up in there. But those are not the heavy metals that people are talking

813
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:53,720
about that. Um, I don't, I'm not really educated on the heavy metals and the testings and how,

814
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:58,880
um, sometimes they come out hot and somebody on a commercial scale can grow and the heavy

815
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:04,540
metals will be flagged and they can't sell it. Sometimes that could be from the wind

816
01:02:04,540 --> 01:02:08,920
blowing it outdoors. I've heard, uh, can blow dirt up onto your plants. So you got to clean

817
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:14,040
it if you're outdoors. I've heard other people talking about living soils could leave heavy

818
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:19,400
metal traces in your, in your cannabis and get it. And it'll fail testing on a, on the

819
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:22,400
Colorado market. I don't know. Every state's a little bit different.

820
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,800
Michigan, Colorado, California, a lot of them are strict. A lot of these legislators just

821
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:30,200
copy each other's rules because they don't know where to start. And that me too process

822
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:34,680
of just copying rules is create some problems because, um, a lot of this is lobbying and

823
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:38,880
the biggest growers that had the biggest warehouses were all converted retrofitted hydroponic

824
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:43,800
warehouses. And so you'd imagine all they have to do is take water and nutrient. And

825
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:47,360
so if they had to compete like on mold, that would be a problem. They're indoors. That's

826
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:51,260
going to be more likely than heavy metals. And it used to be that a lot of these hydroponic

827
01:02:51,260 --> 01:02:57,340
nutrients, they're just awful, full of heavy metals. And so when, um, the testing started,

828
01:02:57,340 --> 01:03:01,560
a lot of the hydroponic nutrients would get cleaned up. So you can easily buy hydroponic

829
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:04,720
nutrients that you can test that don't have heavy metals in them. And so that'll allow

830
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:10,040
you to create, create, grow a clean product. When it comes to living soil, um, the argument

831
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:14,440
is different. The argument is that these political lobbying, they allow you to remediate mold

832
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:18,960
because hydro growers have that problem. So do anybody indoors, but they literally will

833
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:23,840
allow you to clean that mold up off the weed and then sell it to the market still. But

834
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:29,240
what they wouldn't do is allow someone that failed for heavy metal, which arguably less

835
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:33,920
than like the amounts they put as far as the restriction, all the soil outdoors everywhere

836
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:38,080
has more than that. So anybody grows some marijuana outdoors, they're going to have

837
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:43,720
a problem with that soil, potentially having more than a lot of the living soil recipes.

838
01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:47,760
But there are some living soil ingredients that can be problematic. So build a soil has

839
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:52,120
had an issue in the past where as the commercial laws got tighter and tighter, you have grows

840
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,800
that were passing like flying colors and you realize, oh, well, there were 10 cycles deep

841
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:59,520
by the time the laws got activated or some of these brand new grows is their very first

842
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:04,040
cycle. And so there might be more residual from the soil mixing. Um, but for the home

843
01:04:04,040 --> 01:04:08,100
consumer, the levels that they were testing, I don't think we're of any concern compared

844
01:04:08,100 --> 01:04:12,720
to what normal soil would look like for thousands of years, just comparing. So it almost seemed

845
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:16,640
like a political issue where they're like, Hey, hydro can pass heavy metals. No problem.

846
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:22,560
We can clean up dirty moldy weed and we can sell it. But if soil starts to win and they

847
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:26,280
grow five acres of cannabis outside, we're fucked the price per pound. We're never going

848
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:30,080
to compete. That started happening. And so you saw some shift towards the heavy metal

849
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:36,520
testing and I think lobbying. And now you have people that if they grow on living soil

850
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:40,760
without thinking about it, you can definitely fail. Um, you can be putting copious amounts

851
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:45,320
of animal ocean based products, kelp meal, things like this that will have arsenic or

852
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:49,480
cadmium. Those are the two real heavy ones that they've been testing for that seem to

853
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:54,480
be an issue. Um, and it can build up and it can happen where you pop hot and that hot

854
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:59,560
may be arguably lower because they don't have that restriction in food. Um, and it even

855
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:04,120
goes deeper. Like baby food is where you might have heard of some heavy metal issues in the

856
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,800
past because babies are so sensitive. And so they do a lot of testing, but what they've

857
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:14,520
found is that there is, um, like organic arsenic versus non-organic arsenic, and that there's

858
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:19,760
some differences there. And so kelp meal, it's said it's sold as an animal food and

859
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:23,040
some kelp meal will have up to 20 parts per million of arsenic and some will have very,

860
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:26,920
very little depending on batch to batch. What they found is that it's all predominantly

861
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:33,080
organic arsenic and that's not a human health issue. Um, but it could be if you are not

862
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:38,700
differentiating and in cannabis, I believe Michigan says organic art inorganic arsenic,

863
01:05:38,700 --> 01:05:43,720
but when you send it to the lab that fails you, there's zero differentiation. And so

864
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:47,000
it becomes kind of political of knowing like, do I have to test for just that? What do I

865
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:51,000
do? So build a soil took the high road and instead of arguing that like, Hey, that a

866
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:55,480
little tiny bit of organic arsenic from kelp should be allowed. We just decided to remove

867
01:05:55,480 --> 01:06:01,440
it even though we fucking love kelp meal. So in our ultra clean recipe, um, really 3.0

868
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,960
light, all of them, we have heavy metal testing on, they're phenomenally low, very safe to

869
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:08,320
use and all of our inputs are good to go. We have all the testing and can provide it

870
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:15,080
for you, but there was a local line product. There was a calcium phosphate we got from

871
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:19,920
a couple of different suppliers, but there was one in particular that would fluctuate.

872
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:23,120
And so sometimes you test it and it would be below three parts per million. Sometimes

873
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:26,720
it would be up towards nine parts per million or higher in cadmium. And when you're adding

874
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:30,660
little bits, that's fine, but we really rely on our living soils, having lots of minerals

875
01:06:30,660 --> 01:06:35,920
in them. So we just eliminated those and we use soil lab testing to replace the ingredient

876
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:39,280
instead of just going, well, we don't have that. And so build a soil was able to use

877
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:44,180
an organic rice bran that's very high in phosphorus. And we're able to use small amounts of fish

878
01:06:44,180 --> 01:06:48,480
bone meal without overdoing the sodium and keeping very low amounts of heavy metals.

879
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:53,340
And so 3.0 craft blend light, all of those, they test really well in heavy metals where

880
01:06:53,340 --> 01:07:00,000
before we would have more kelp meal in there, more crustacean meal in there. And if a grower

881
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:05,620
got a batch and then just planted right into it and maybe fed other additional inputs that

882
01:07:05,620 --> 01:07:09,080
had heavy metals in them and they had no idea what was happening, they could get tested

883
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:12,960
and all of a sudden they have a huge lesson in heavy metals to learn. At home, it's pretty

884
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:17,760
simple. All of our best practices work really well for the home grower.

885
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:23,000
Yeah, I've never had a problem where I've never really noticed anything. Living soil,

886
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:28,640
my herbs always smoother, easier to toke, not coughing up all the time. I mean, you

887
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:34,080
call sometimes I'm taking a big hit, but it's so much smoother than the indoor, like you

888
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:37,960
said, the salt, you can tell the difference. I can tell it's much harsher. Somebody's using

889
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:41,600
general hydroponics. I cough really quickly.

890
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:45,480
What's interesting to me is I noticed a lot of the herb, even though I'll have different

891
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,560
varieties will all taste similar and have similar profiles when they're grown with the

892
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:52,880
same exact nutrient. Where when you're growing a living soil, I feel like it allows the plant

893
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:58,200
to show you its true natural profile, what it would produce without being influenced

894
01:07:58,200 --> 01:07:59,200
that way.

895
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:05,560
I have had my first round, somebody was teaching me, he sent me up some Northern Light clones.

896
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:10,480
I was in Spain. He was like, OK, you water with this nutrient. He didn't tell me once

897
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:14,840
a week. So I was watering with the nutrient every, every watering every two days I was

898
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:21,200
giving it nutrient. And it was popping like a sparkler. Whenever you spoke that it would

899
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:26,800
you could see the nitrogen and phosphorus and potassium in little pockets just because

900
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:32,240
they're all flammable, flammable chemicals on their own. Whenever you have potassium

901
01:08:32,240 --> 01:08:35,560
or phosphorus, they all that's what they make bombs out of pretty much.

902
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:40,320
Well, I don't know how it works. Like I used to think that too. And I don't have an answer.

903
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:45,120
So I'm not trying to debate. But I feel like the plant takes that nutrient and it converts

904
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:49,680
it into a leaf. It's no longer phosphorus up there or potassium up there. You do a tissue

905
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,760
test and you will see a little more potassium and some other things. But the phosphorus

906
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:58,560
is an energy source. It usually doesn't make it up in the plant, at least in alarming levels,

907
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:02,220
even if you're not flushing and even you're using a lot. But I noticed overfeeding plants

908
01:09:02,220 --> 01:09:06,040
stresses them. And what I've noticed is they create micro seeds that you can't even tell.

909
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:11,400
They're the beginning formation of like a cluster and any bit of moisture, it pops and

910
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:14,880
crackles. And so you have little micro seeds, not even developed seeds. And to the average

911
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:18,680
girl, you may not even notice it. They break down way inside and you see this little tiny

912
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:25,200
piece of something. I noticed that snap, crackle, pop, if you ever have that happening. I really

913
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:30,680
think that's possible. But at the end of the day, I'd be growing like I'd have advanced

914
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:36,440
nutrients and other just I was using the Lucas method and lots of different formulas out there.

915
01:09:36,440 --> 01:09:39,800
The Lucas with the floor Nova actually kind of not liked and that had kind of an organic

916
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:46,260
goopiness to it. Maybe that was first step in that direction. But I would be feeding

917
01:09:46,260 --> 01:09:50,720
like my peppers and tomatoes and I'd be looking at the bottle like, well, fuck, do I have

918
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:55,880
to flush my tomatoes or is it safe to eat? Or like, how does that work? And those questions

919
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:58,920
started to pass off into cannabis. And I started thinking, wouldn't it be better just to use

920
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:02,680
something that I wasn't worried about? And the argument on the other side of the thing

921
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:08,400
is that organics just makes those chemical nutrients on tap for the plants and they're

922
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:13,000
in the same form. While I scientifically agree with that, I think there's definitely some

923
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:17,920
differences and how that happens. Meaning, if the plant has to interact with the soil

924
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:22,640
to get the nutrient to take it up, it's not being force fed. Where when you put that chemical

925
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:26,560
nutrient in the water, it is forced to take it when it drinks. And so you can definitely

926
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:33,000
over and under do things a lot more drastically when it comes to hydro. Yeah, it's amazing

927
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:35,880
the differences you can produce. They call it the phenotypic expression, whether it's

928
01:10:35,880 --> 01:10:40,240
just different nutrients or different environment, growing outdoors, indoors, you can dramatically

929
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:45,200
change some herb based on the way you grow it. And across the board, all of our customers

930
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:50,400
and everyone that I've known that have grown multiple ways, the argument usually isn't

931
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:55,720
that soil doesn't taste better or that it isn't more naturally easier to grow better.

932
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:58,920
Like on your first crop, you're going to have a higher terpene content than trying to learn

933
01:10:58,920 --> 01:11:03,040
how to grow hydro. But I will say there's some great hydro growers that learn how to

934
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:07,200
get their shit right. At the end of the day, though, I just prefer not to vision myself

935
01:11:07,200 --> 01:11:11,720
and like some white lab coat telling the plant what to do. I figure like overalls and saying,

936
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:15,760
what do you want from me? How can I serve you? And it seems to be that difference in

937
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:20,000
mindset that a lot of times causes that crossover to living soil. We're looking to be a steward

938
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:24,820
of the plant instead of like a dominatrix, so to speak. Right. So, yeah. So speaking

939
01:11:24,820 --> 01:11:29,560
on that, I remember watching one of your videos, you were talking about like just a little

940
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:34,980
solo cup and your plant was so tall, branched out and it was something with the lighting.

941
01:11:34,980 --> 01:11:39,980
You have a little special talk about the lighting. So when you're doing some clones or doing

942
01:11:39,980 --> 01:11:46,640
some something in bed, it doesn't need that full 100% HLG lighting. You can turn it down

943
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:52,880
to 60. It actually like a lower lighting. Yeah. Especially that little cup. Like, I

944
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:57,080
mean, imagine this, you're busy. You're thinking you got lots to do. You're around your house,

945
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:00,880
just kind of hanging maybe in some sweatpants, cruising, doing stuff. You can go the whole

946
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:04,600
day without eating. You're like, oh shit, I got to eat. I mean, I know not everybody's

947
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:08,280
like that, but it's something that can happen. But I tell you what, you get up at six a.m.

948
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:12,360
You start swinging a hammer or something. You start digging a ditch. Like your body's

949
01:12:12,360 --> 01:12:16,040
going to break you down and tell you, you need food now. You have to stop what you're

950
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:20,960
doing. Your stomach's raging. You can't think straight. It's like need food. Your plants

951
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:24,720
are similar, right? They're not stupid. They start getting one more of one thing. They're

952
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:28,960
going to need the other. It's all about balance. And so you take a little tiny clone and you

953
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:32,680
crank up the light. That's great. It'll be healthy for a few hours. The next day, you

954
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:38,040
better have a plan for nutrition, for water, keeping up with that environment that you

955
01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:43,600
put it in. It's like asking a marathon runner to go in the desert and just go. And so when

956
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:46,720
we're going to, when we know we're just going to keep them in this little tiny cup and we

957
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:50,080
know that, hey, we're looking at our flower room going, ah, it's going to be a few more

958
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:55,000
weeks before I get to deal with those clones. I'm busy. The easiest thing to do is to lower

959
01:12:55,000 --> 01:13:00,680
the demand and just allow them to be lazy. You turn that light down. It lowers that desire

960
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:04,200
to grow because it's not being force fed the light, which means that it doesn't have to

961
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:09,840
transpire water, which means that. So if you picture a plant growing and it's got its stomata

962
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:14,640
and it needs to open that to receive the light, start growing. Well, as soon as that happens,

963
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:17,840
it can start to dehydrate. And so unless you keep the humidity perfect, now it's going

964
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:21,660
to call for moisture out of that little tiny cup. And if you're not in there dripping on

965
01:13:21,660 --> 01:13:26,280
it or watering it or bottom watering it and doing a perfect job, it'll run out of water.

966
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:31,280
Then it starts cascading down where it starts moving the leaves away and starts to get burned

967
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:34,920
because it's not absorbing the nutrients of the water and avoiding all of that. We just

968
01:13:34,920 --> 01:13:38,360
dim the light and now it stays kind of like a house plant where you almost need to do

969
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:41,920
nothing for weeks at a time except for barely keep any water in there. And even if you over

970
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:46,320
water it, it's not like trying to grow so fast that it's hurting itself. It just kind

971
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:50,720
of goes, ah, well, just chill here for a little while. It makes a huge difference. And that's

972
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:54,960
how we got such tall clones is because I kept on saying, you know, next week we'll get to

973
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:59,720
that and just leave the light low, give it a little bit of water. And if you really need

974
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:05,620
to, you can use like some liquid fish, something that's kind of an all in one complete formula

975
01:14:05,620 --> 01:14:08,800
and that'll keep everything, you know, happy for the plant.

976
01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:13,080
So yeah, that goes back to, I used to just use a fluorescence when they were clones or

977
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:17,960
babies. I mean, it's perfect for them. It doesn't push them too much. A lot of people

978
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:23,780
have this swinging. This learning curve is the word I'm looking for when they go to LEDs

979
01:14:23,780 --> 01:14:30,560
because they're so bright. Yeah. Don't know that increased in your, it's start them low

980
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:36,120
and then they slowly increase them up to maybe 90% when you go into transition. Yep. That's

981
01:14:36,120 --> 01:14:40,480
about where I'm at. And then when they're in full blood and full, full budding and blooming,

982
01:14:40,480 --> 01:14:43,320
then I'll turn them up to a hundred, but crank them down a little bit.

983
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:50,040
Yep. And the number of hours of the day. So imagine this a hundred percent light on 12

984
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:56,480
hours a day, a hundred percent light on 24 hours a day. That's 200% light. Cause you

985
01:14:56,480 --> 01:15:01,320
actually went to double the hours of light and we're trickle charging these plants. So

986
01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:06,040
50% for 24 hours is the same as a hundred percent for 12 hours. It's about the total

987
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:10,480
light for the day or the daily lighting integral and lowering that allows things to get a little

988
01:15:10,480 --> 01:15:14,740
bit easier on us and you can grow higher quality. It's not so demanding. And this is just like

989
01:15:14,740 --> 01:15:18,120
an indoor back in the day. I mean, guys who grow sealed rooms and they find out, Oh, I'm

990
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:22,160
out of CO2. So guess what we do add CO2. Then you can add more nutrients, then you can have

991
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:26,560
more water. So supercharging things becomes harder. It's like driving a car million miles

992
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:30,400
per hour on the racetrack. If you're worried you're hitting the edges, just slow the fuck

993
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:35,720
down and you will have a very healthy run. Then you can start to learn how to speed it

994
01:15:35,720 --> 01:15:42,800
up without hurting things. And it does, it makes a huge, huge difference. So,

995
01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:48,320
So we are about the 120 mark here. I think we could go ahead and probably wrap this up.

996
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:52,320
Yeah, I can talk to you all day, man. This is fun. We could keep going on and on. So

997
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:58,560
I want to let the listeners know about the availability. Where are you located in Colorado?

998
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:01,840
You're pretty much in, I know the way to grow is where I've stopped and got some of your

999
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:05,000
product before. I think Way to Grow just ordered like a truckload of cubic footers. They'll

1000
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:09,740
be stocked up for the season. They got a 3.0 in our light soil. You know, we've been really,

1001
01:16:09,740 --> 01:16:13,600
we're a small brand. And so getting into the wholesale trade has been hard for us. The

1002
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:17,680
margins are lower. We got to make stuff quick, get a whole bunch on one pallet and get it

1003
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:21,440
out. And you know, we weren't really geared up to do that. We don't have a billion dollars

1004
01:16:21,440 --> 01:16:26,360
of funding. And so it may not be everywhere all the time, but the easiest way is to go

1005
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:30,600
to buildaswell.com, go to our store locator, and just look up what the closest store to

1006
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:34,040
you. We have them all over the country that buy our products and then call the store first

1007
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:36,640
and just be like, Hey, you guys stocked up. Can I come down? Or if they're your local

1008
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:39,120
shop, just go visit it, hang out and tell them to buy more buildaswell.

1009
01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:43,840
Yeah, because I've heard it. I've got one in store locator says they have it. But then

1010
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:46,520
when you get to the store, they say, Oh, well, we got to order it.

1011
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:49,880
Yeah. And you don't want to drive three hours to the local shop just because you're stoked

1012
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:52,980
and find out they don't have any. So call ahead. That usually helps. And then it helps

1013
01:16:52,980 --> 01:16:58,800
us because now they're getting calls on buildassoil, things like that. But we are online at buildassoil.com.

1014
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:02,680
And one of the downsides, right, is we have tons of compost and rock dust in our soil.

1015
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:07,840
So it's not lightweight, which means it costs a little bit of money to ship it. But realistically,

1016
01:17:07,840 --> 01:17:12,560
comparatively to going and buying bulk ingredients and mixing yourself just to get a couple of

1017
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:15,680
bags, it's a lot cheaper. So a lot of our customers go buy like three or four bags at

1018
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:19,160
a time, have them mailed to their door, or they'll get one of our kits that comes on

1019
01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:24,520
a pallet, or they'll split a pallet with a buddy and go in halfsies or whatever, or like

1020
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:27,640
with three people and they'll get a better rate on the soil just because it comes all

1021
01:17:27,640 --> 01:17:32,640
at once on a pallet. But in Colorado, we're on the Western slope. We're in Montrose, Colorado,

1022
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:37,600
which is in between Grand Junction and Telluride. So a lot of people that are over on this side,

1023
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:41,400
it's further spread out, but it's a smaller world. So anyone in the Western slope, a lot

1024
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:44,520
of times we see those customers, they drive up from Durango, they come over from Grand

1025
01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:49,280
Junction, they drive over from Denver. But typically, when people aren't from Colorado,

1026
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:52,840
they call me go, yo, I'm gonna be in Colorado. I'm gonna stop by and visit. I'm like, cool,

1027
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:54,840
where are you gonna be? They're like, I'm flying into Denver. I'm like, well, you're

1028
01:17:54,840 --> 01:17:58,640
gonna have to drive seven hours over the Rocky Mountains in the middle of a snowstorm if

1029
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:03,520
you want to come see me. But we love it when people stop by, they can see the in store

1030
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:09,120
10 by 10 grow. And it's been huge for us because many of these soil companies, living soil

1031
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:12,640
companies, they don't even grow or smoke. Some of them do, right? A lot of us are passionate

1032
01:18:12,640 --> 01:18:17,560
about this. But to me, it's always been something to walk the walk and say, come to our store,

1033
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:22,280
live, see the growth growing in action. I'll show you what it looks like. Instead of saying,

1034
01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:26,960
yeah, 10 years ago, my body used to grow and we just did the soil science or we just made

1035
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:32,040
a nutrient fertilizer company because of hemp or whatever. This is just what we do. I love

1036
01:18:32,040 --> 01:18:37,060
cannabis. It's a big part of my life. And I've tried to cross over like we're doing house

1037
01:18:37,060 --> 01:18:42,960
plants and other things, but a lot of us found gardening. We found food gardening. We found

1038
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:46,840
house plants because we loved cannabis. And we thought, shit, I'm gonna grow up all these

1039
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:52,680
plants. You know, I like the companion planning. It really got me into companion planning and

1040
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:57,760
the living soil beds and what I could put in there to increase the terpenes like basil

1041
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:04,160
or something marigold stuff like repel the pest and help with the nematodes. And one

1042
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:08,200
other question, I know you do roll around to canicons and go to different events. I've

1043
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:12,880
seen Build-A-Soil. I don't think I saw you there, but I know Martin was there, the guys

1044
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:18,840
from RootWise, Miles from Fermented Plant Extracts. And I am going to be using the Fermented

1045
01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:24,720
Plant Extracts with this run that I'm using. I already top dressed with the 13 blend. I'm

1046
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:30,640
using a little bison compost that I got from Grease, Mike Walsh. Grease is a pretty nice

1047
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:36,040
product. So I'm doing a little tea with that, but I'm going to use the Fermented Plant Extracts

1048
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:42,000
with the 3.0. Do you recommend going very light on the Fermented Plant Extracts? Because

1049
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:46,880
on the bottle is like 0.5 ounces to 4 ounces per gallon is what the pic says.

1050
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:53,640
I do an ounce per gallon. If you have, my rule of thumb is if you have a hundred gallon

1051
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:57,960
thing of soil and you're just starting, you can go the lowest dose and always go the lowest

1052
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:02,760
dose. I do to start off. No matter what to start off anything ever. But then when you're

1053
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:06,720
trying to find your zone for what you like, I only go up to like four ounces a gallon.

1054
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:10,920
If I've got a raging plant in a small container and I'm actually trying to get the ferment

1055
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:15,560
to feed the plant a little bit through the soil. Normally what we're doing though, and

1056
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:19,620
there's some big benefits. When we first started making the Kutz recipe, we used tons of oyster

1057
01:20:19,620 --> 01:20:24,080
shell flour. It's one of the big ingredients. Also crustacean meal. And those are both calcium

1058
01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:28,880
carbonate forms. And so when we had outdoor growers using our soils for the first time,

1059
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:33,440
they started using ditch water or well water. Well, the ditch water around here, full of

1060
01:20:33,440 --> 01:20:38,080
bicarbonate. And so you water it in there. And finally the biology releases this calcium.

1061
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:43,040
It says calcium carbonate and it rips off the carbon side and it has free-form calcium

1062
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:48,100
for the plant. And the water comes in and goes, ha ha, calcium carbonate. And they reform.

1063
01:20:48,100 --> 01:20:52,940
So we noticed that an acid in the water, not like pH in the water, but an acid to neutralize

1064
01:20:52,940 --> 01:20:56,920
that bicarbonate fixed everything. And a lot of growers out here would use like vinegar

1065
01:20:56,920 --> 01:21:02,800
on their orchard or sulfur injector systems at the big orchards. And so when it comes

1066
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:05,920
down to watering living soil, we still have all these calcium and all these things to

1067
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:12,320
release. And you start to realize, oh, my ferment is like 3.5 pH. It's a descaler.

1068
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:18,320
It like releases calcium. EM1, you could use it to like scale industrial equipment. And

1069
01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:24,680
so that I think is part of the benefit. We're adding this like acidic, ubiquitous fermentation

1070
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:28,240
that exists everywhere in nature in the sense that like, how do you make sauerkraut? You

1071
01:21:28,240 --> 01:21:33,680
just go chop up cabbage with some salt and put it in a jar. Well, the lactobacillus is

1072
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:37,280
ubiquitous. It's already part of the picture. That's how it works. So when you take a ferment

1073
01:21:37,280 --> 01:21:41,680
that's full of lacto, that's everywhere in nature, we're doing two things. One, I think

1074
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:46,080
we're like acidifying the water and helping cycle nutrients. But we're also adding this

1075
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:51,560
essence of life, which is death and decay. And that's why it smells. But that is what

1076
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:55,160
we're trying to do in the soil. We're trying to break down this organic matter into a more

1077
01:21:55,160 --> 01:22:01,320
plant usable form. And so we're almost like, instead of waiting for the logs and the fire

1078
01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:04,640
to create the fire, it's like putting lighter fluid on it. We get to go in there with a

1079
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:09,760
ferment and like release and cause nutrient cycling. And one of the things I remind myself

1080
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:14,080
of is how funny some of these lessons are in life. But on ICMAG, we're all talking about

1081
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:18,280
compost teas. And the talk was if you brew an anaerobic tea with ciliates and these other

1082
01:22:18,280 --> 01:22:23,320
things in there, and it had not enough oxygen, you could kill your plant. I've never seen

1083
01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:26,740
that happen. You can brew a horrible compost tea and yeah, it may not lead to all the benefits

1084
01:22:26,740 --> 01:22:31,160
that you wanted. So it was a waste of energy, but it never killed anything. And you'd still

1085
01:22:31,160 --> 01:22:35,440
get growth and all the dead nutrients and stuff. It would just re go aerobic in the

1086
01:22:35,440 --> 01:22:42,800
soil and the soil would kind of consume that bad tea. But when it comes down to the crowd,

1087
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:46,800
like the Ingham crowd that was teaching it at the time, they wouldn't look at the anaerobic

1088
01:22:46,800 --> 01:22:51,040
stuff at all. They're like, that's bad. Good stuff is all full of oxygen. And then we had

1089
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:56,200
this ferment crowd that was like, yo, this stuff's dead and raunchy and it crushes. And

1090
01:22:56,200 --> 01:23:00,760
so I just love that, that lesson of life where you're like, one could be so right and the

1091
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:04,320
other could be right. And they can be diametrically opposed to each other and they still both

1092
01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:08,800
work. And I remember at EM1, the guy was like, hey, brew a compost tea and they just add

1093
01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:12,400
a little EM1 at the end. That way you have both in there. And I was thinking, what? You're

1094
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:17,040
going to ruin it. But it works. And I feel like nature doesn't have these rules. They

1095
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:22,360
just have teams of biology that do jobs, whatever that may be. And typically that's cleaning

1096
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:27,000
up organic matter, decaying it, breaking it back down. I remember in science originally

1097
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:31,400
we were taught nothing disappears. It just goes into different form. So if you light

1098
01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:34,680
something on fire, it's not gone. It's just gone into the ashes that are now in the sky

1099
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:38,840
spread everywhere and the different gases that were off and released, but they're still

1100
01:23:38,840 --> 01:23:43,360
in the universe. So when it comes to ferments, we're kind of tapping in there. We're taking

1101
01:23:43,360 --> 01:23:48,520
already biologically broken down waste and allowing it to be ready for the plant. The

1102
01:23:48,520 --> 01:23:53,480
other thing is it feeds the biology that's in there and the acidity of it. So there's

1103
01:23:53,480 --> 01:23:58,960
like this trifecta there that somehow they just, they do definitely work. And I will

1104
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:03,920
say of the, of our customers that buy ferments, because they're expensive for what it is.

1105
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:07,840
If you learn to make them on your own, they're practically free. But we all know having stinky

1106
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:11,560
stuff around the house at the right phase all the time is like a shitty job. So it's

1107
01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:16,000
nice if someone just bottles it for you get to tap in. But at the end of the day, when

1108
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:23,680
we're using all these ferments, it's kind of like, do we want it to increase just the

1109
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:30,400
exact size like used to be talked about yield, or do we want to have the best amount of resin,

1110
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:35,040
the best terpene, the best compounds. And so a lot of people that are growing for hash

1111
01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:39,840
that are pressing their own rosin and doing fresh frozen and all this stuff, they swear

1112
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:44,240
by adding K and F and ferments and some of these things. And I can't tell whether it's

1113
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:47,000
the chicken or the egg. Like I can't tell if people that are so heady, they just say

1114
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:50,880
you have to add that because it sounds good or whether they just know it produces better

1115
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:55,320
results. But over a decade of doing this, and trying a lot of people's herbs, like at

1116
01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:59,800
these events, people bring us lots of flour to share with us. Some of the best herb I've

1117
01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:03,600
ever had has been by these growers that do some of their own natural fermentation products

1118
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:08,640
and they add this stuff to it. And it's noticeable. And so it's hard to ignore. And I think a

1119
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:13,000
lot of us end up in living soil, because we try somebody's herb that's so damn good. We're

1120
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:15,880
like, All right, how did you do that? I will copy everything.

1121
01:25:15,880 --> 01:25:20,760
Yeah, I got for smell, flavor, taste. That's important to me. I will suffer my

1122
01:25:20,760 --> 01:25:25,160
yield just a little bit just to make sure we can always tinker with you later. But if

1123
01:25:25,160 --> 01:25:28,120
you have no flavor and no like what the fuck's the point?

1124
01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:33,560
Yeah, it's just I love the like you said, I can't smoke the orange and lemony ones all

1125
01:25:33,560 --> 01:25:37,880
the time. But it is an occasional thing. I like it. It just makes my mouth salivate.

1126
01:25:37,880 --> 01:25:42,200
It's like a like a candy almost sometimes. Yeah, but I lean more towards the skunky,

1127
01:25:42,200 --> 01:25:47,240
gassy the that but when you make tentures out of that, they don't taste very good.

1128
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:51,880
No. So the if you like having some fuel all the time, you can balance it with tinctures

1129
01:25:51,880 --> 01:25:55,000
and other different stuff. And I feel like for whatever reason, when I talk to really

1130
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:59,000
experienced smokers, a lot of us gravitate towards that fuel. And I can't tell if some

1131
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:02,200
of us are just more mature. So we came out of an era when like, oh, gee, Kush was the

1132
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:06,520
fucking like the best, like, you know, and so having that fuel was somehow reminiscent

1133
01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:10,920
of like the best. But I don't think that's it. I honestly think that as we get a little bit

1134
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:15,320
higher tolerance, those really fuely ones that come with these theols and like these,

1135
01:26:15,320 --> 01:26:21,240
I don't think it's just terpene, something that really like it helps. It's potent. I like

1136
01:26:21,240 --> 01:26:24,840
when you have high tolerance, you end up liking the strongest shit. So I like the

1137
01:26:24,840 --> 01:26:30,040
karyophylline and humeline. It's one of the sesquiterpene. It's just part cannabinoid and

1138
01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:37,240
part terpene. It's like the intermediate. I think that is the synergistic part of the plant that

1139
01:26:37,240 --> 01:26:44,680
when you got more of the sesquiterpene, which have that dank smell and feel that's a I think

1140
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:49,800
it just brings back memories, like you said. Yeah, absolutely. It just makes you feel more

1141
01:26:49,800 --> 01:26:55,080
comfortable because of that spell that nostalgia and that memory. And a lot of it is the smell.

1142
01:26:55,080 --> 01:27:00,840
The smells create so much more effect than people. People realize. Yeah, we eat with our nose too.

1143
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:04,040
I mean, you go to have a good meal. It's you want to try fact. You don't want it just to

1144
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:09,000
just have good texture or just to have a decent taste. You want it to have the right temperature,

1145
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:16,440
the right texture, the right aroma, the right taste that completely transcends eating into

1146
01:27:16,440 --> 01:27:20,440
what becomes an experience. One that's worthy of paying for and going out with friends. And I

1147
01:27:20,440 --> 01:27:24,200
think cannabis is similar. We all have this thing where it's like, we're going to share some herb

1148
01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:28,760
with a friend. We just want to like, I don't know a lot of other things, but with cannabis growers,

1149
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:33,960
I've noticed they will take their very best herb to give it to their friend because they would never

1150
01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:37,400
want to like embarrassingly taste their worst now that they grew and give it to a buddy. They're

1151
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:40,440
willing to give their best first because they just want to put their best foot forward and say,

1152
01:27:40,440 --> 01:27:44,920
I grew that. You know, like it all doesn't turn out this way, but you're really like,

1153
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:51,240
you get the good shit. Yeah. Well, Jeremy, next time I am going to come down, I'm going to

1154
01:27:52,040 --> 01:27:56,840
go down and hang out with miles at his, uh, his farm and hang out and do an interview with him,

1155
01:27:56,840 --> 01:28:02,360
do some videotape and definitely going to stop by Montrose. If you're ever in Denver, let me know.

1156
01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:06,520
Uh, also, if you want to go skiing in Breckenridge area, if you're ever in that area, let me know.

1157
01:28:06,520 --> 01:28:10,440
We can go skiing and hit the slopes. Awesome, man. Well, I appreciate you having me on today.

1158
01:28:10,440 --> 01:28:13,960
This has been a blast and like, please stop by if you come to town. It'd be great to meet you in

1159
01:28:13,960 --> 01:28:20,760
person. Yeah, no doubt. Uh, highly, highly, uh, respect everything you're doing. And I really

1160
01:28:20,760 --> 01:28:25,160
appreciate you come on the show and explaining to everybody what, what you got going on and how to

1161
01:28:25,160 --> 01:28:29,800
use your products. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. All right, Jeremy, you have a great day and

1162
01:28:29,800 --> 01:28:32,840
we'll be in touch soon. Okay. All right. Peace. All right. Peace.

1163
01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:37,800
I want to thank everybody for tuning into today's episode. I'd like to give a shout out to Bill

1164
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:44,040
at the Grove, Jen and Conifer. He's always hooked me up. He's got the cheapest CO2 you can find in

1165
01:28:44,040 --> 01:28:49,800
the state. I believe it's at cost. He's got soil at cost. Uh, if you're ever in the Conifer area,

1166
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:56,920
make sure to stop in and give Bill a shout out and, uh, support local. Also, I'd like to give

1167
01:28:56,920 --> 01:29:02,440
a shout out to miles. Phillip Kelly from fermented plant extracts. He hit me up with the link to, uh,

1168
01:29:02,440 --> 01:29:07,960
hook up with Jeremy for this little episode greatly appreciated. I know he's going to be putting on

1169
01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:13,720
some fermented plant extract classes in July here in Denver. So if you're interested, make sure to

1170
01:29:13,720 --> 01:29:20,600
hit him up on his Instagram at for a minute plant extracts or we should taste good. Thanks miles.

1171
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:28,600
Peace.

1172
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:54,600
Vereinments and family with Lucky

1173
01:29:54,600 --> 01:29:57,600
Vibrant and a little bit of fun.

1174
01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:01,600
See the joint ain't necessarily the point, but I want more.

1175
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:26,600
Vibrant and a little bit of fun.