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What's going on everyone? Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the

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Bronx Attorney Broadcast. I'm your host, Will Forero. On this episode, we have

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Ryan McKeen. Ryan is the co-founder of the Connecticut trial firm and the

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Connecticut trial firm is a very fast growing personal injury practice in

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Connecticut. Ryan just hit for a $100 million jury verdict. In this episode,

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he talks about what it's like to take risks, what it's like to have a vision

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when you start a law firm or go out on your own to have your own practice,

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and what it's like to form the relationships that really help your law

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firm continue to grow and thrive. So I really hope you enjoy this episode with

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Ryan McKeen. Hey Ryan, thanks for taking the time to talk to me tonight. I'm

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really excited to get to know you a little bit more. Thank you so much for

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having me on, Will. So just to get started, can you tell us a little bit

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about your background and about your firm? Sure. I'm Ryan McKeen. I'm co-founder

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and CEO of Connecticut trial firm. We're located in Glastonbury, Connecticut, which

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for those unfamiliar with Connecticut, it's right outside of Hartford, and our

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practice is dedicated exclusively to personal entry work. Okay, and so who did

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you co-found the firm with? I co-founded it with my partner Andrew Garza. Okay, and

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I really wanted to talk to you today about how I got to know you

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for the first time, and that was your book Tiger Tactics, which I don't

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know how I found it, but I ended up buying it, I guess, off Amazon or

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something like that. And it was one of the books that kind of started to get me

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thinking more about building my own brand and working towards building

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my own caseload and clientele and things like that. And not quite ready to have my

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own firm yet, but our firm is only the two of us, so it kind of started

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to get me thinking about stuff like that. How did you get the idea to write a

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book and what was your process like? First of all, that is awesome, and it

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means so much that that book has touched your life and touched your

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practice. It's why we did it. That book, the real genesis for that book is that me,

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Jay Rewain and Billy Tarasio were in a Slack group together, and we got

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segregated because we were the most active people, and we just kept

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messaging each other all the time, over the course of probably 18 months.

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Saturday night, Sunday night, all hours of the day and never ending

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discussion of what is the model law firm. And at one point I said to Billy

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and Jay, I said, let's turn this into a book. There's a lot of good

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stuff here, and so Tiger Tactics was born. We decided to write it and to get

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some co-authors and put the book together and ultimately release it

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probably 15 months after we sort of talked about it initially.

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And when did the book come out? Oh geez, I want to say it came out like

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March of 2019. We're working on a sequel, working on Tiger

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Tactics 2, a CEO edition, which will, my chapters are all due at the end of

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March, so hopefully we'll have that out in the fall.

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And is that going to be revisiting the same topics as the first book, or is it

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going to be expanding or new topics? It's expanding. In many ways, like for me

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and for I think many of the authors, Tiger Tactics was sort of like going

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from solo, small firm, like really small firm, and now all of our

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respective practices have grown. And so it's more transitioning into the

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role of being the CEO of your firm. So it's for anybody who's doing that or

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wants to do it or is thinking about doing it. So we're touching on a lot of

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different topics. And you might get some new authors.

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Okay, who's going to be new on this, on the new book?

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Well, we've got Jay Rewain, Billy, Bill Umanski, or back. We've got Jen Gore,

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Cuthbert, Elise Bowie, Joey Vitale, trying to think of who else.

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Michelle Delano, a few others. We tried to get as many diverse practices from

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across the country for people who have actually scaled firms to write about

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what that takes. Okay. And you mentioned growing. Are you the fastest growing

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firm in Connecticut? Did I see that right? Or one of the fastest growing?

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I would say, I don't know how we measure that. I would say yes. One of the fastest,

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for sure. I think the law firm 500 named us the fifth fastest growing firm in the

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country in 2021 or 2020. And we are continuing to grow.

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So I don't know where it puts us in the country or how one even ranks that. But yes,

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we are growing. Well, certainly very fast then. So how did you begin to write the book?

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I mean, how did you take all of the concepts and kind of bring them all together?

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Yeah, what happened is we just sort of like, we're like, okay, what would somebody,

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you know, we wrote it for people who were looking to start a firm or maybe what on their own or maybe

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had just started a firm. And we're like, well, what is it that we wish we knew? And what we wanted to

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do is we wanted to not do it in sort of like a checklist kind of way. We wanted to tell stories.

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We wanted to talk about things that hurt. We wanted to put it out there as honestly as we

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as we possibly could. And so, you know, we broke it down into its various components of, you know,

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vision and marketing and hiring. I forget what other chapters there are. I think there's about

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seven chapters in that book. We sort of looked at it that way. And then we're all like, okay,

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let's all write chapters with our takes on it, independent takes. And the hope would be that,

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you know, maybe what I said resonates with somebody, maybe what Billy said resonates with

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somebody else, and just sort of give people different perspectives on sort of the same

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topics that we all agreed were really important if you're going to do this work.

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What advice would you have to somebody who was thinking about writing a book? Because it's

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something that, you know, I've thought about and I've heard a lot of people talk about

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how good writing a book could be when you're able to, you know, give that to a potential new client.

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Yeah, I think a few things about writing a book. One is it's like more time consuming

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process than you think. Like, I mean, we write, I mean, I write the chapters and then we get them

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off to content editors who are sort of trying to say like, well, what you're saying here is it

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making sense or we need to clarify this. And then once we go through that round of edits,

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we work with basically grammatical editors to correct our grammar. You know, you need somebody

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to format the book, you need, you know, cover design, that kind of thing. So I think it takes

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a little bit more time if you're going to, if you want to do it, then you may think beyond the

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initial like, okay, I just, I wrote my word quota for the book. And, you know, I think the other

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thing is, is it's like, it's a long play. It's not a money making proposition at all. I have never

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been paid on Tiger Tactics. I think we, we just broke even on the book for what we had spent into

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it. Turns out Amazon takes a lot of the portions of any sale. But that was never, that was never

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the point of it. The point was to hopefully add value to others. And, you know, look, it's doing

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what I hoped it would do, which is like, I'm talking to you, which I otherwise wouldn't be.

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So a whole bunch of things like that opened up. Have you seen like non monetary value come,

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come back to you as a result of the book? Like, is do people mention it often or

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people make a decision to hire you because they've seen it?

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I don't think that they, I don't, I mean, it's not a client facing book. So it's, it's really a book,

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it's really a book for referral partners, right? Yeah, we, we, we get a lot of cases from

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lawyer referrals. I think last year, I think we got like about 130 cases referred to us by other

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lawyers that we accepted. So it's a big portion of any sort of marketing is just they have to

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know you, they have to like you and they have to trust you. And sort of a book can help check

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those boxes because people, if they read it and they connect with you, that's, that's,

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that is, that is fantastic. So yeah, I mean, I think it's, there's zero, I mean, I wouldn't be

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doing a second book if I didn't think it was beneficial. The amount of doors it is open,

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the speaking opportunities that it's given me the, there was quite a while where every week it

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felt like I got a note from somebody who was like, you know, this book really connected with me.

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And that's an awesome, that's an awesome thing to open your mail and see or open your inbox and see.

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And, you know, there's, you know, if it's, if it's something you want to do, like, absolutely do it.

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It's, it's great. And this episode of the Bronx attorney broadcast was brought to you by me,

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Will Ferraro. I'm an attorney at prior law in the Bronx. We primarily practice personal injury law,

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but we can help you with just about any legal issue that you may have. And if it's not something

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that we can personally help you with, we can connect you with an expert in that area of law.

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You can find me online on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube, my handle is typically

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at Bronx attorney. And if you can't find me on one of those social media pages, you can email me

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ferraro at prior law.com or call me at the office 718-829-0222. And now back to the show.

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One of the things that I found most interesting about your book is in it, you talk about important

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things that you need when you're starting a law firm from scratch. And it seemed like the two things

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you thought were most important was having a vision and having a bookkeeper. Is that still,

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you still think those are two of the most important pieces?

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No, no question. I think they're even more important now. I was, I didn't know what you

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were actually going to say because I wrote this so long ago and I'm like, I hope I said something

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good. And I think you hit on something that is so important. And one of the things when we

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set out to do vision work was for my firm, we set a goal of getting a $10 million jury voting.

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Okay. That was the vision for the firm. Well, in part because we're like, well, we want to be the

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best injury firm in Connecticut. And like, that's not an acceptable goal because there's no way to

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know if you are or you aren't. And so we looked around, we looked at other firms were like, well,

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what website like what verdict puts us in that conversation? Right? Or like $10 million, that

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puts us in the conversation. And so we set out to build a firm that could do that. And so we

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invested in training that could help us get the result. We invested in marketing that could help

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us get the cases. We invested in building financial systems and technological systems that could help

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move our cases to support it. And we ended up, we ended up 10 xing that goal last fall, we got

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a $100 million verdict. But we would never have done that had we not set out to get a $10 million

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verdict. Because it was like, we're going to be trial lawyers, we're going to fight the fight,

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we're going to be able to be very good at what we do, we're going to be operationally excellent

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to support it. And so I think that that vision component really asking yourself, well, what are

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we trying to build? It informs so many other decisions that you're going to make. And the

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bookkeeping part of it is like so many, so many lawyers work with a lot of lawyers and they get

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caught up with book issues, whether it's taxes or IOLTA audits or clients funds or just various

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things. And if you don't have your books organized, you really have no data on your business. You

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don't know what's profitable or what's not or where you're spending too much or where you're

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spending too little. And as we've grown, one of the people that we hired, we brought on a director

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of accounting and data analytics in-house, an accountant to not only just manage our books,

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but look at projections and do a whole host of things with data that we have at the firm.

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And that's an incredibly valuable position at our size at this point.

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And you said in the book that the $10 million verdict was your 10-year goal and you did it in,

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not only did you 10 times it, but you did it in half the amount of time that you were

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giving yourself to accomplish it.

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Yeah. We didn't have the case when we set that goal. And I think, I'm not into the secret or

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something like that, but I think that there's something too, like we can manifest or we can

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make happen what it is that we seek to happen. And I think, like, hey, we put it down on paper and

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we put it out into the universe that we're open to this and we're going to do the work

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to sort of attract that, to make that into a reality. And we did.

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Yeah. I think the goal is certainly, once you put it out into the world, it's there and you can't,

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it's out and you can't put it back. So...

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Well, and it should, the goal, whatever your goal is, it should feel like really uncomfortable.

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And sort of like, if you think of yourself as like, you know, I don't know, maybe I played

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sports as a kid, maybe you did, maybe you didn't, but it's like, okay, I'm not only going to be the

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quarterback, I'm going to be better than Tom Brady. Like, I'm going to go into the Hall of Fame.

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You know, and I think you have to be willing to dream like that. You don't have to be, but like,

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I think attorneys in general oftentimes dream too small.

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Yeah. And I was, I was into sports when I was younger. I was a big wrestler and I never,

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I never attained the goals that I set out for myself at the beginning of the season. And every

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year they would increase a little by little and I, I would get further than I would the previous

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year, but not to, you know, the end goal. And so before Connecticut trial firm, you, you started

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another firm and it didn't quite work out. Was there a difference in your vision?

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Was there a difference in your vision between, you know, the two firms that you think helped you

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make it succeed the second time? Yeah. And you know what, and interestingly,

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like even since writing Tiger Tactics, like I've really connected with my former partners,

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Megan and Kristen, and we have become the friends that we were before we went into business, which

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it just feels awesome. And the way in which it actually happened was, I mean, their firm

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is incredibly successful. They're an incredibly successful family law firm. Again, they, one

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of the fastest growing firms and well known in our area, well respected, and they do, they do a whole

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lot of things right. Like they're on the Inc. 5000, we're on the Inc. 5000. And so now we, we sort of

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rehash that and we're like, you know, our, what we were trying to do, like was impossible. And what

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we, because what needed to happen is we needed to put like two firms on the Inc. 5000, not one.

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And, and I think that, you know, they're proud of my success. I know I'm proud of, of, of their

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success. But yeah, it did not work. It did not work out at least initially as we had intended.

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And so with the benefit of time and forgiveness and understanding, I think we would all, I know we

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would all agree that it really, really worked out. Okay. And then when you start, I'm sorry,

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you asked a question about difference in vision. And I, and I think yes, I think,

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I think the problem is, is like, we didn't have a vision. And the, the sort of vision was like,

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Hey, we're going to be awesome, which is, which is fine. But what does awesome mean? Like, what

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does it look like? And I think, you know, what, what was happening was I was developing a vision

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for a family firm or for an injury firm, and they were developing a vision for a family law firm,

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though that was not articulated at the time, those were just sort of the directions we were being

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pulled. And had we sort of thought like, well, what, what, what do we want the point of this to be?

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Whether it's like, we want to be the best family firm or we want to be, you know,

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I don't know what, what we would have done, but we never had those conversations. And so we're

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like, Hey, let's get the best software, let's build an amazing office, let's get cool computers and

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have cool branding and all the different things that we had tried to do. But there was no sort of

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purpose to any of it. So was it, would you say that it wasn't like, it wasn't specific enough,

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or you didn't have your end goal outlined well enough or, you know, we had none of it, we had

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no, we had no specificity. It was like, Hey, we're going to be awesome and we'll do awesome things

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and things will work out. That was sort of the extent of it. And again, it wasn't like we weren't

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good lawyers, like we're going to do good legal work, we're going to do all of that. But in terms

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of a company, there was ultimately a sort of no reason to exist when, like you wouldn't go out

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and find, you know, you wouldn't go out and start like an app for your phone and just be like, we're

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going to make an awesome app. Like it's got, it's got to be like, Hey, you know what, we're going

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to make an app, we're going to make a game that's going to compete with like the last of us on

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PlayStation. Okay, okay, then we've got something. You're like, it's not a baseball game. Right.

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You know, so when you started Connecticut trial firm, did that start as like only

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personal injury right off the bat? Or did you, you know, whittle down practice areas until you got

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there? Connecticut trial firm itself was started as specifically as I think as an injury firm,

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if we had, if I had any cases, it was very minor that were sort of like just hanging around,

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whether it be a divorce or some other kind of litigation. But I had, I had my own practice,

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I had McKeen law firm where it was a general practice. And I was doing real estate closings and

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wills and personal injury and divorce and all of it. And as I was doing these things,

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you know, I need, I knew I needed to whittle it down and devote myself into sort of one area

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of practice. And by the time Connecticut trial firm was founded, that that that was the,

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it was very, it was even very short time after that, that we were not doing, we were, we were

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doing personal injury exclusive that you went all in on personal injury. Yeah.

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You also write in the book about about the blog that you used to have.

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And do you still, do you still have the blog? Are you still blogging?

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The answer is yes and yes, but differently. The blog still, the blog still exists because

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their digital agency loves it because it's aged and has a lot of inbound links and content and

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things like that. But nobody really reads blogs anymore. So I take similarly the writing that I

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would do on the blog and I do it in two different ways really. I write a lot on LinkedIn about

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like the practice of law and thoughts on that. And I write a lot, I do like personal injury content

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on YouTube, which is where, which is where, you know, consumers may find me. So I, the answer is

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I generate content very much like blogging, but just in, in different mediums. And in Tiger Tactics,

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you talk about how you didn't start with a, you know, a huge viewership or readership. It was

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something that you kind of just, just chipped away at. And I, and I, that's kind of what I'm

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working on now with my, you know, content creation in, is, is, you know, the, just to keep doing it.

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Is that something that you, you keep experiencing when you switch different mediums?

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Oh, absolutely. You know, we, I've been at trying to build a YouTube channel for probably since

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then sometime in COVID, since 2020, so probably about three, three ish years, trying to build a

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YouTube channel. And it's a lot of like posting videos that get no views and posting more videos

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that get no views. You have to sort of be a gluttin for punishment. But like last week,

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we got five calls from different people who found us on YouTube. So, so I think if you're going to

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do content generation, one is you just have to like to do it. Two, you have to be a little bit,

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I don't know if stupid's the right word, but, but, but yeah, a little bit like, okay,

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I'm going to be content with this, not getting four views in another video, I do four views.

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So the volume is, is definitely a thing. It's a long play. If you're going to develop an audience,

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it's a long play. If you get picked up by like the algorithm, but it's viable for anybody who's

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really willing to put in the effort. The problem is, is that most people don't put in the effort.

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They do five, 10, maybe 15 videos. They get 40 views of all their videos, which are presumably

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their competitors. And they're like, this isn't worth it. But you've got to keep,

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keep generating content, ignore those initial statistics as to viewership and,

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you know, get better at what you do. In the way of the way that you're creating the content and,

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and you know, where you're aiming it, you're talking about getting better in that, in that sense.

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No, I'm just, I'm talking, well, yeah, I mean, you, you figure out what works based upon some of

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the analytics. You do more of what is working. And you, you, you sort of develop your own voice

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along the way, which I think is like more important than any of it. And as you develop voice, and

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you get more confident, you just get, you just get better at it. It's just like anything else.

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Like if you did sports, it's like, if you're, you know, you're, you're a baseball player,

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keep hitting off a tee and eventually you'll get a better, a better swing.

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Okay. And another theme that you talk about in the book is, is relationships and investing in

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relationships. Can you talk, tell me a little bit about how that's, you know, helped you get to

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the point where you are now in your career? Yeah. I mean, no, no, no person is an island in any of

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this. We all stand on the shoulders of each other. And specifically, like in the $100 million

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verdict case, I mean, first of all, that came in from my, my, my Tiger Tactics co-author Jay

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Rewain, who referred the case to us. So even the relationship of writing Tiger Tactics,

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you know, ultimately led to that case, because Jay knew what I was trying to build and that I

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was diligent and that I cared and I would be a good fit for this case. So he sent me that case.

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But also we were able to work with lawyers across the country that we had meant for over years of

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going to different trainings, different conferences, just connecting, just being,

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you know, sending no cards, just, just in general knowing people. And, you know, we,

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I can't even list all the people that helped us. But when we, you know, the Saturday before we were

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going to close on a Tuesday, we had a call with Andrew Finkelstein of Finkelstein and Partners

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and Jacobio Myers, a whole lot of other firms. Andrew is an amazing business mind and amazing

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trial lawyer. And he gave us over an hour of his time, because I saw him at a conference in Vegas,

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and he said, Ryan, you know, I know you're closing in this, but you got to know how to ask for

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tens of millions of dollars. And I can, I'm going to tell you how to do it. And so he spent a whole

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hour on the call giving us that how to really do it. And we, we just took his closing and,

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you know, his, his feedback and just ran with it. And I don't know that it would have been possible,

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maybe it would have been a different way, but without something like that along the way. So

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in so many ways, the people that you know, the people who will take your calls, the people that

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care about you in some way are the greatest value that any lawyer could have.

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How did you start building those relationships when you, you know,

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once you became, you know, running your own firm or, you know, out from being just like an

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associate in a firm and you had to, you know, form these relationships, where were you going,

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what were you doing, who are you calling? Yeah, I think, I mean, I think it's just,

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it's something that has pretty, comes pretty natural to me. I mean, a lot of relationships

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that have been tremendously valuable, you know, in the past 10, 15 years have been originated online.

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Some relationships on Twitter, LinkedIn. But, you know, for example, like Andrew Finkelstein,

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I mean, we went to King and Trial Institute and he taught my focus groups class and he was amazing.

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And, you know, I just wrote him a thank you card after I just said, thank you so much for your

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time and what you've learned. And, you know, he sent me back an email, like giving me more feedback.

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And I was like, this is amazing. And sort of just over the years, like, you know,

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you do something great, just send him a note. And when it came time to,

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when we were looking to do animations, like we hired his animation company, because we knew

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that if it was good by him, it'd be good for our client. And, you know, it's just things like that.

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It's just showing up. It's just people knowing who you are, what you do. And I think sort of,

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like, maybe the biggest thing is that if they know you're not a jerk, and they know you really care

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about doing a good job, like that sort of greases the wheels in many different ways.

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Know the like and trust. That's all it is. Yeah. Well, I just, I always like to talk about that

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with people because for, you know, my colleagues who might be starting their own law firms or

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having to build their own book of business, a lot of times it's hard to figure out where to start

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with these kinds of things and how to form these, you know, how to meet the people that you want

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to form the relationships with. You know, that's a great point. And I mean, I've never been one

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to do like networking breakfast or like BNI or and look, I know people who those groups have

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worked incredibly well for them, but that's not sort of like my force networking vibe is not sort

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of my thing. I think for me, it's like, I want to go to the places where the people I want to be

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are. And so it's like, if you see, if you want to be a trial lawyer and you sort of see like, okay, well,

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you know, Rex Paris is speaking, like go to that event, go introduce yourself to Rex Paris,

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go say, you know, go talk to him. And, and, and, and also the people who are in that audience as

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well, maybe it's not, maybe you don't, you know, you don't get Rex's cell phone on the first time

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you meet him. But there are people who are in that audience as well, who are like minded. And you,

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hey, what do you do? Where do you practice? You know, what kind of cases are you working on?

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You know, what do you think about this? You know, Rex said this, what do you think?

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And just sort of engaging. And then, you know, again, like, you know, it's, it's about, you get

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back to the office, you send them a note card, like, Hey, so nice to meet you. You know, thank you.

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And, you know, connect with them on LinkedIn. And when they do something awesome, like, send them

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another note card, like, Hey, it's awesome. You got a great verdict. Yeah. And personally,

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I found that whenever you write somebody a thank you or you send them something in the mail, like,

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that really sticks with people. Yep. Yes, it does. So I mean, I think that those are the things and

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like, I mean, they, they, they don't cost money in a lot of different ways. They definitely cost

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time. And, you know, I mean, in today's world, though, it's sort of never been easier, like, whoever

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your idols are, or whoever's doing whatever it is, I mean, I'm sure that there's a Rex Paris of,

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like, estate planning. But like, just go find that person and just say like, Hey, I read your book.

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And, you know, thank you so much for writing it. Okay. Like, start that conversation.

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Yeah. And, you know, I don't want to give away too much of the book, but another thing that you

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talk about is, is risk taking. And how do you, you know, calculate what's a what's a good risk to take?

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Yeah, I mean, if you're going to grow, you have to take bigger and bigger and bigger risks. And in

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fact, the more you grow, the bigger the risks you take. And, and so, you know, I remember when it

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was like, Okay, I'm going to go out on my own. Like that felt like a huge risk. Okay.

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Then I remember like, Okay, I'm going to hire my first employee. Oh my gosh, did that feel like a

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risk? And, you know, today I'm on a leadership meeting where it's like, Okay, okay, okay, we're

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going to hire an HR person. All right, we're making an offer to a lawyer. You know what, we just put

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in another offer to buy a more office space near us. And like, again, like those are sort of like

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bigger things. But as you, if you're going to develop, particularly if you're a trial lawyer,

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or you're a business person, you're going to have to have an appetite for bigger risks. Because

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what you realize is like the biggest risk is really not taking those risks, not hiring the

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lawyer, not going out on your own, not, not taking the case to verdict, not buying the office,

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those are the things that can come back to hurt you. And, and to me, it's not, I think my comfort

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level is like, I look at the thing and I'm like, Well, what if it completely goes wrong? Like,

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what, what if the lawyer I hire is just terrible? I mean, like, what's the worst thing that happens?

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Like, I mean, ideally, like, I, I, we catch it, he, you know, he or she creates some fixable

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problems, we have to spend some time fixing it and we fire them, or they quit. You know, well,

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what's the worst case? What's the worst case thing that goes wrong if I buy the office next door?

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Well, I'm on the hook for, you know, $3,000 more a month than rent. Okay, like, well,

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you know, can I can I absorb that? And for how long? How long am I willing to absorb that? So,

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you know, I don't take risk where it's like, Okay, I'm betting my practice and I'm betting my house

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and I'm betting everything that I have. Because if you're going to take risk, you have to accept

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loss with it. But you just need to, I think adjust, you know, for like, well, what happens if this

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completely goes wrong? And I talked to a lot of lawyers who are like, Well, maybe I want to start

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my own firm. Well, I don't know, I don't know. But I'm like, Well, what if it goes wrong? Like,

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can't you go back to work for like, whatever, for some other firm, or some other government

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agency or, you know, whatever, like you have some skills? Yeah. No, you know, it's no risk at all.

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And do you feel like there's just a certain, you know, you're going to max out on your growth if

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you don't take these risks? Oh, yeah. No, no, no question. I mean, all all of growth lies like,

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just outside your comfort zone. And if you're not doing things that scare you, like asking a jury

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for $100 million or hiring 30 people or expanding your practice or taking on larger marketing

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spends or whatever it is that you're doing, like you're definitely not growing.

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Yeah, well, hopefully one day I'll have to ask a jury for $100 million and I can,

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I can get some pointers from you on that. Hey, we have the closing courtesy of Andrew

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Finkelstein of how to get there. I'm happy to send it to you.

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You know, I would love to keep you all night, but, you know, I think I'll let you go have dinner.

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Where can people find Tiger Tactics if they want to read the book?

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You can find it on Amazon. You can message me on LinkedIn. I'll send you a copy if you want.

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And how can people find you if they want to, you know, follow you or reach out to you or

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something like that? Ryan McKeen on LinkedIn, Ryan McKeen on Twitter. You can also email me

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at ryan.ctttrialfrom.com. I'm pretty easy to find. Just find me and connect with me.

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And, you know, we'll have Tiger Tactics too, CEO edition coming out. And I know the quality of

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co-authors that we've been able to attract on this. I know it's going to add a lot of value

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to you. Just for anybody who is in sort of like the, well, how do I run a law firm space?

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I think it'll be great. And when should we be looking out for that?

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I hope this fall. It's going to depend a little bit on, you know, the editors. We have a system

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and we have a process in place from things that we learned from the first book. It'll all be,

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my writing part will be done March 31st. I assume all edits will be done probably June

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1st. And then it's got to go to formatting and other things. So hopefully the fall.

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Okay. Well, I'm definitely going to be buying that. So I'm looking forward to it.

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I'll send you a copy. Well, I'll send you a copy.

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Thanks, Ryan. Thank you.

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Thank you for listening to this episode of the Bronx Attorney Broadcast. Please like,

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review and subscribe so we can help the channel continue to grow.

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And if you're interested in connecting with any of the guests, please let me know.

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And I'd be happy to make the introduction.