How's it going everybody?
Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the Bronx Attorney Broadcast.
Today I talk about networking with Aaron Fine.
Aaron Fine is a personal injury attorney at Edelman, Krasin and Jay.
And for personal injury attorneys, the reason why networking is so important is because
you have to build your own book of business or a firm within a firm as Aaron puts it so
you can continue to earn more money as you progress through your career.
It's a little bit different from some other areas of practice where you don't have to
bring in your own clients as much.
So it's really important to us and I think that this is something that can also translate
across practice groups, real estate attorneys, estate planning attorneys.
They're always looking for new clients as well.
So here's the episode with Aaron about networking.
Hey Aaron, how's it going today?
Thanks for taking the time to chat with me tonight.
Yeah, my pleasure.
Happy to be here.
Talk to you as always.
Yeah, and I'm typically underdressed but today I had court so I'm actually in a suit like
everybody else is.
All right.
I mean, I'm always on court.
You never know.
Sometimes these judges call, gotta show up.
And now they got Zoom so they can get you when you're not ready for it too.
You gotta keep a jacket at the office.
Has it happened to you?
It's happened to me twice in the last one.
Every once in a while.
So it's that I forgot and then I have to put the tie and the jacket on.
So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself.
What firm do you work at?
Where are you from?
Give us your name and your quick little bio.
Sure.
Aaron Fine.
Went to St. John's as you know will.
Go John.
We're for Elman Crescent and Jay, a personal injury firm, offices in Westbury.
We have offices in Bronx, East, somewhere in Suffolk.
But we handle cases all over New York, New Jersey.
Any type of PI case, we handle it.
MedMal, labor law, trip and fall, slip and fall, whatever you need.
And you started there straight after law school, right?
Yeah, actually interned here as a 2L.
I clerked here as a 2L and never left.
Okay.
So they must have been good to you when you were an intern so that you didn't run away
and go somewhere else.
Go to the defense side.
Well, it's a funny story.
I always told myself I would never want to do PI.
The whole ambulance chasing and whatnot.
I applied to this firm as a law student looking for a summer job.
I was really looking for some litigation experience and I knew PI very heavily in litigation.
As you know, I just want to be a trial attorney, but I didn't care which area, but I knew not
PI, but just wanted to get some experience.
So I interviewed, they told me here that I'd be doing motions and going to court, all that
great stuff that I wanted to do.
And then once I started working, it's like, wow, people actually got hurt and never left.
I really liked it here.
Okay.
And so what I wanted to talk about today is, I think that you had a similar introduction
when you started working, but I know for me, it was the initial salary offer and the personal
injury plaintiff side is a little bit lower than some other areas.
But what happens is, the firm will say, you have the ability to control your own destiny
and you'll make more money when you bring in your own work.
And I remember for myself sitting there and thinking to myself, well, that's great and
I would love to make more money, but I don't know the first thing about how to build a
book of business, where to find clients.
You're not going to go hang out at the hospital and with your cards, right?
You got to find a way to build this business.
Is that something that your experience interviewing and getting the offer as well?
Absolutely.
So I knew that I wanted to work here for the environment, for that type of work, but of
course none of us work for free, right?
And you're right.
So especially out on Long Island, it's not what we thought going into law school.
I think any lawyer knew what actually being a lawyer was like before going to law school
to begin with.
It's not making 300,000 out of school.
But I do recall sitting in one of the attorney's offices while trying to make my decision,
who happens to not be here anymore because he went out and started his own firm.
That's kind of what I guess we're going to talk about.
And he just told me that it's the benefit of having a firm within a firm, which is what
we have here.
I handle cases for the firm, but they don't turn me down.
If I have a case, somebody comes to me and says, why not?
We go for it.
And with that, you really put in what you get.
Excuse me, you get what you put in, I should say.
It's about effort.
And I'm not here until midnight working, but networking is a big part of it.
And I've had those same thoughts.
I remember sitting in that office thinking to myself, like you said, oh, that's so nice
that you're very successful, but that's you.
How do you know that's going to be me?
He just said, don't worry, it will.
And things that just naturally happen.
He put me on this path on how to do that.
And hopefully one day, I'll be giving the same advice as someone else.
Yeah.
And another thing is I feel like when you're in law school, you're thinking about that
Midtown Manhattan office where you're on the 70th floor and now you're sitting in where
in Nassau County?
In Westbury.
And you're in Westbury and I'm on City Island.
So that didn't really turn out like it was expected to.
And I think it's going well for both of us.
I would say what's really cool is that straight out of law school, before I was even admitted,
I had an office.
I wasn't in a cubicle, I had an office.
Three months after being admitted, I was trying a case.
So yeah, so these are things that our industry, PI, were so litigious that it really allows
for stuff like that.
And especially with my firm, they're always encouraging bringing in the businesses, always
a big part of it.
I really feel like there are two types of people when it comes to networking.
There are those who are just born that they can do it.
A schmoozer.
A schmoozer, exactly.
And there are those who need to be pushed.
And honestly, I was one of those that needed to be pushed.
I was pushed into a networking group.
That was what I had to hear from day one.
And I really think that's kind of where it has to start.
So when you say you're pushed into a networking group, what do you mean by that?
Every attorney in my office is part of a networking group, whether it's B&I or I'm part of IBO.
It's essentially a greater business networking organization where IBO, for example, stands
for interchanged business organization, where there are different local chapters or different
towns.
There's a lot of the Baldwin chapter slash Rockville Center chapter known as Alliance
of IBO.
And essentially, each mini chapter has a weekly meeting, has a weekly group, and each group
can only have one individual from each profession.
So one personal injury attorney, one real estate attorney, one finance advisor.
And from that internally, we're supposed to be referring, if I know someone who needs
a real estate attorney, right, and over to my real estate attorney, my group and vice
versa.
And from there, it starts, and then you meet people through that, not just even referring,
but connectors, connections and whatnot.
And, you know, it just grows out from there.
So that's really where I was always told I needed to start.
And from day one, I've been told I need to, you know, my boss is, when are you in the
group?
When's your meeting?
What's the name of your group?
Where's your group meeting?
So I'm probably...
And how did you find this IBO chapter?
So again, one of the members of my firm, former members who was high-matt before, started
his own firm, he was part of IBO.
And he just told me to just go on the website, anyone could do it.
And you just search through the different chapters, see if there are any local chapters
or wherever you're willing to travel.
It's once a week meeting that needs someone in your industry.
So happens to be Rockville Center was 10 minutes from my house, which was great, especially
with a 7.30 AM breakfast meeting.
We needed a PI attorney.
So I reached out to the president at the time.
We spoke, did a bit of an interview I visited, so that it worked out.
And I know there are people who, they're always looking for people to start chapters as well.
So if you want to be that PI attorney chapter in your local area that doesn't have one,
there you go.
And IBO, I guess, I run it, Tom Gibson, you'll always help you try to connect with people
to start a group.
And so he runs the whole IBO.
Is that like a company that he owns?
Right.
So I guess he owns it.
And I don't know how many chapters are, isn't necessarily an IBO commercial, but it's what
works for me.
So B&I is also very similar.
I know a lot of attorneys do that as well.
Yeah.
Runs broader IBO events for all the chapters to go to.
So that thing.
Have you found success in that in getting referred cases?
Yeah.
I would say most of my cases have originated from my IBO group.
Maybe not necessarily a direct, here's a referral, although I have a lot of those, but also a
connection to somebody who would refer me to the case.
So a lot from that.
And is it like the other professionals, like clients that had something happen that they
couldn't handle, or it's like their family member or friend, or it could be anything?
Right.
Exactly.
And that's kind of what we do.
Especially, and I mention this all the time during my meetings, is that it's not as simple
as, hey, everyone needs an account, but not everybody needs a personal injury attorney.
It's happenstance.
It's accidents.
Right.
If and when it happens.
Call me.
Right.
Exactly.
That being said, you never know who knows people.
There's also good connections to be made with whether it's with a physical therapist
or a chiropractor or a worker's compensation attorney, someone who, other attorneys really
who don't do what we do and refer to us.
It's all about meeting people.
That's what you need to do.
And so what do you do at these meetings, actually?
You go there at 7.30, you sit around the table, you have bagels, and what do you do?
Yeah.
So we go around, give the same elevator speech week to week, what we do, what we're looking
for, hopefully, if you have a good story to tell that happened over the week, think if
there's some member of the group that gave you a referral, you thank them.
And once a week, normally one of the members gives some kind of spotlight of what they
do.
Talk about certain part of their industry that you want to talk about.
I talk about no fault wall all the time, how it's really important to get UM coverage.
So many clients call up and complain about the coverage, but you got to pay up for it.
Right.
And so for people who don't know, I know that's not what we were intending to talk about today,
but because it came up, the underinsured motorist coverage is when you, on your vehicle, you
pay to have a certain policy if you rear end somebody and injure them.
But the UM is for if you're injured by somebody else and they have no insurance, right?
Right.
And I think that also goes into the networking part of it as well is that there are things
that we know that a lot of people don't know.
And many times I talked about the UM topic, it's always something new to somebody.
Right.
You know, from what you and I do, it's an everyday thing, but it's not for so many people.
And that's part of networking too, just showing your knowledge and standing out when you're
amongst other professionals as well.
So what, like, did you have a meeting this week yet?
We usually meet on Wednesday morning.
So not this, not yet.
What's your pitch going to be on Wednesday or your elevator speech?
Well, this time of year, you know, I like to give the whole, it's icy out, you know,
watch how you drive and all that, and that should be all.
But I haven't had much snow, so I gotta think about it.
Okay.
Not only where you drive, but where you step too, because, you know, especially in the
New York City area, people do a really terrible job of cleaning off ice and snow.
It's like they do the bare minimum.
And then you see also where you have the six inch wide kind of path to walk down in front
of some places.
Right.
And even more so in Nassau County, where we have all these, you know, the prior written
notice laws are so much stricter than in New York City.
But that's another topic.
Right.
Yeah.
And that goes off from the main topic for today.
So do you remember what the first case you had referred to you was?
I do.
Do you remember how you got it?
It was from my networking group.
Okay.
And what happened?
Somebody just called you up and was like, Hey.
Yeah.
He called me up, told me that his girlfriend was injured in a diner, fell off one of those
raised steps that didn't say, watch your step blended in with the floor below and broke her
shoulder.
Wow.
So that's pretty severe injury.
So she was just walking.
She didn't even know there was a step there.
And then all of a sudden she plunged downward.
Right.
And our expert went in there, showed that the step itself was way too close to the booth
as well.
So there wasn't even room to, to get up, take a step and then walk down the step.
It was almost like you take a step straight out of the booth.
There's a step there.
Nothing says, like I said, no, watch your step.
Nothing to differentiate the step from the floor below.
So yeah, that was my first case there.
I got it.
Yes.
I think that, you know, I was pretty apprehensive of these networking groups.
A lot of times I go and it's like, it's like a real estate agent, a mortgage broker
and insurance guy.
And it seems like they're all just trying to do like deals together.
And I'm like, where do I fit in here?
But more and more, it seems like people are having some good experiences.
And now I'm like, I definitely got to sign up for one.
And what I, what I first did was I just, I started with like giveaways.
So I made like 500 keychains with my phone number on it.
And I just had to say like will Ferraro injury attorney and my phone number.
And some kid I went to high school with that I didn't really like, we were friendly, but
we weren't like friends.
Like I didn't like have his phone number or anything.
I gave him one randomly when I saw him out and he called me like two months later and
he was like, Oh, I met a guy.
He needs an attorney.
And that was my first referral.
And I was like, I was like shocked that it, it worked so easily.
Like I, like I, you know, you just got to like, it's almost like you just got to get
it out there that here's what I do.
And then people will find you, right?
Is that, are you having that experience too?
Yeah, exactly.
And that's what that attorney told me way back when was that he got his first case was
not exactly who, you know, what happened, but that case turned into his brother turned
into his nephew turned into his cousin.
And next, you know, it all branches out.
So you know, the key chains and everything, you know, that's fine.
But really at the end of the day, it's, it's kind of who you know.
And, you know, once you find that one person, you never know where it could go.
You never know.
You're saying one person could, could turn it could snowball and turn into, you know,
that person ends up being like the go to person in their community and everyone's going to
them and saying, you know, I need a personal injury attorney and they know you.
Exactly.
It's, it's kind of like a, like a family tree or referral type of situation.
Yeah.
You never know.
It gets endless branching out.
I have a couple of those where I call quote unquote my second generation referrals.
Okay.
So.
I like these, these, these terms you're throwing out from within a firm.
Second generation referral.
The second one's a trademark.
The first one I've been told, but the second one, second generation, that's mine.
I made that.
All right.
So I'll have to, I'll have to let everybody know if I use it.
It's from you.
So you know, you mentioned that you, you had a trial right away when, when you first got
admitted, when, how was that experience?
Was that, did that reaffirm your desire to be a litigator or did you have a different
experience?
Yeah.
It's, first of all, of course it was terrifying.
It was a ex, it was an expedited jury trial in Nassau County.
So it was a one day trial, no doctors, no experts.
So the pressure is quote unquote less, although it's not, you know, still a real trial.
And were you the first seat on it or were you a second seat on it?
It was just me.
Wow.
That's, they must have had some trust in you to really just throw you out there.
Just to me, didn't care about the case.
Who's to say?
Of course, no, we care about all our cases, of course.
But yeah, it was, it was, it was terrifying leading up to it.
But of course that fear is what helps you prepare for it.
And then once you do it, it's just so much fun.
It really is.
Yeah.
Well, if you do well, it's fun.
Well, it's less fun if you don't, if you don't do well.
It is true.
I mean, I lost because I was, you know, it was going to happen.
But, you know, we talked about earlier about going to law school and not really knowing
what being a lawyer is.
Right.
You know, that's all you know, going before law school from all TV shows and movies, being
people in court.
So finally, that was cool.
That was, you know, doing that.
That was really cool.
Yeah.
And then I'm really funny because I've, you know, right before law school and during law
school, a lot of people told me this is what being an attorney is.
And they all had a different, completely different perception of what being an attorney was.
They're all like, get used to it because this is what being an attorney is like.
And then the next job would be completely different.
Right.
And you know what?
I was thinking about it the other day.
Do you know what?
You correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall one class being offering on networking or,
you know, business or anything like that in law school.
I don't, I am not aware of any, I do have one of my friends who was on an earlier episode
of the podcast, Nick Patrick did have a like small firm management class at his school.
And I was like, that's incredible.
I would have loved to, although I don't know if I would have had my same mindset back then,
but it would have been an interesting, an interesting class to take.
This episode of the Bronx attorney broadcast was brought to you by me, Will Ferreiro.
I'm an attorney of prior law right here in the Bronx and we primarily practice in personal
injury.
However, we do also do a variety of areas of practice.
So I can help you with just about any sort of legal issue that you might have.
I'm admitted to practice both in New York and New Jersey.
And if it's not something that I can personally help you with, I can connect you with someone
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You can find me on Instagram and on Twitter at Bronx attorney.
You can send me an email for railroad prior law or call me at the office 718-829-0222.
And now back to the show.
Yeah, for sure.
But at the end of the day, you've got to think about everything as a networking opportunity.
Doesn't happen to me, but you hear stories about winning a big trial and your adversary
coming over to you, hey, you did a good job.
We should talk.
Everything's a networking opportunity.
Maybe you should pitch that class to St. John's and you could teach it at night.
Networking and firm within a firm management with Iron Fine.
Sure.
And tuition will just be contingent on our students graduating.
Yeah, why not?
That's not a bad idea.
All right.
Well, you'll have to pitch it.
So do you get cases also from other places than just the networking group or is it pretty
much exclusively the group?
No, friends.
Things happen.
That's just life.
So I have a really good friend.
Unfortunately, he got into a car accident, handling his case, his mom's case, and then
he knows somebody who got into a car accident.
So I think about it all the time, thinking about that conversation I had with the attorney
who I guess mentored me, thinking to myself, who do I know?
How am I going to grow?
Where are my referrals going to come from?
And you don't know who you know until it happens.
So friends, just meet people.
You just never know.
Uber drivers, so awkward.
But talk to every single...
You're passing out your card everywhere you go?
Well, not all the time.
Sometimes you have to go out.
But it's awkward.
But yeah, pass out your cards really just, you never know.
You really just never know.
And so I've heard people say who are personal injury attorneys, they'll say that, oh, a
friend was in an accident and they hired somebody else because they didn't know that we do personal
injury.
So how do you make sure that everybody knows you're...
Everybody in your family, your friends, they know that you're an attorney.
How do you make sure that they know that you're a personal injury attorney who can take on
all these cases and will go to trial and will do all these things?
That's a good question.
So I hate to say it, but a lot of it's just humor.
I'll make a joke about something God forbid happening.
Oh, you should have called me or something like that.
Oh, why?
Well, because I do personal injury.
I handle accidents.
And that kind of starts the conversation because a lot of people, everybody I would say knows
a lawyer.
But not everyone knows a personal injury lawyer because there is that stigma of don't walk
around and say I'm a personal injury lawyer.
And it's a shame because we really do a lot of...
We do good work for people who need it.
So just you got to look for opportunities and volunteer at sometimes.
Yeah.
And you say that.
I think that a lot of people don't realize how severe an injury has to be in order to
recover from it.
The people do get hurt all the time and never see a dollar because it's not worth it to
take that case to trial.
It'll get dismissed.
And there are...
There is a pretty serious threshold to recover a substantial amount here.
Right.
And to show that extreme as well, my friend who was involved in that car accident, he
was offered the day after his accident, he was offered $500 from Progressive.
And he thought about taking it.
Wow, it's $500.
And often you're pained.
You don't really feel it until the next day or so.
And I told him, don't rush the $500 as case is worth upwards of $100,000 at this point.
Oh really?
That much?
Right.
And the insurance companies know that.
They know that for a lot of people, $500 is a lot of money.
And all I did was get into a car accident.
My neck hurts a little bit.
It's not a big deal.
I don't like lawyers.
I don't like lawsuits.
Well, that's why we're around.
And then yeah.
And then next thing you know, it's you get an MRI.
And you need some sort of surgery or injections or something like that.
And it's worth a lot more than $500, all that pain and suffering you're having.
Exactly.
And you know, back to, so what I do to make sure everybody knows that I'm a personal injury
attorney is like, I kind of almost take it to the point of being like corny about it.
Right.
I'll see somebody and I'll have like my t-shirts in my trunk.
And I'll be like, you want a Wilfred O'Hara injury attorney t-shirt?
And they're like, you have t-shirts?
And I'm like, of course I have t-shirts.
And like, you know, they got UFOs on them.
And you know, I just did it because I think that it's cool.
And for six bucks, I'm giving somebody a t-shirt.
They're not going to forget that I do personal injury because they got a t-shirt in their
drawer that says it on it.
So, you know, that's, that's what's been working for me so far.
Exactly.
I think that's great.
Because I think get asked, I'm sure you get the same, the follow up when I, when people
find out I do a personal injury.
Oh, what's your commercial?
What's your billboard?
What's your jingle?
You know, they expect shtick like that.
They expect, you know, you know, something like that.
So, that's awesome.
Or they compare you to like one of the, one of the big guys.
Right.
They go, you're going to take down so-and-so or are you so-and-so?
And it's like, no, it's not.
It's in the same, you know, same ballpark.
It works.
You know, Morgan and Morgan's a big player out here.
Their, their catchphrase is size matters.
They know what they're doing.
Yeah.
So you got to, you got more, more trials on the horizon.
I do.
I have one on the 18th, a car accident case.
Then I have one on the 25th.
And then I have one on February 5th.
So pretty busy.
Okay.
And then when you, when you win those, you got to post some, some nice graphics.
Everybody knows how good you are.
All right.
And that'll, that'll, that'll keep people coming.
They're like, oh, wow, look at Aaron.
He just won this crazy verdict.
Well, that's part of it as well.
You know, Facebook groups are also, you know, got to get in those.
There are a lot of business Facebook groups.
You know, of course you get into one of these, I mean, what, what's called Long Island Business
and Communities run by Buddy and Mine is actually in my local IPO network group.
And of course I'm not the only PI attorney in the group.
It also helps to know the admin, but you know, that's where you post stuff like that about
Vertex, you know, big wins, motion wins, anything like that.
And if you have other people in the group to prop you up as well, you know, that's very
helpful.
So really you just got to expand your outreach because I wasn't even aware that they had
Facebook groups like that.
Yeah.
Every town has one, you know, every type of whatever you could think of subgroup has
a Facebook group.
Is it like, is it like a geared towards networking or is it just like the Westbury Neighbors
group or something like that?
Both.
There's, there's the networking Facebook groups there where you could post about networking
events where you could post about your, about your firm, you could post about your business,
whatever it is.
And then like you said, you know, the Westbury moms, obviously I'm not part of that, but
you know, or, you know, Westbury dads or, you know, I'm from West Hempstead, the West
Hempstead Jewish community page, things like that.
I got actually got a case from there.
Really?
Yeah.
And so you're just, you're just posting in this group or you're waiting until somebody,
you know, asks for somebody or what are you doing?
Yeah.
So that's actually a good point because there's really two ways of getting a case.
There's really, there's a passive approach and there's an active approach.
The active approach is going to the networking meetings, going to the networking events.
And then there's the passive approach, like I said, of knowing someone who knows somebody,
just being a part of these Facebook groups where somebody posts, Hey, I just happened
to get hit by a car while crossing the street.
Anyone know who I could call to and it's not even necessarily about looking for a lawyer.
You know, I need a good doctor to refer to.
Right.
So, Hey, by the way, who's going to pay for your bills?
You have anyone help you out with no fault?
What's no fault?
That's what starts the conversation.
So that's, that's a really great, you know, passive approach to networking.
And I think there's a value in knowing good doctors too, right?
Because if you're working with, with doctors all the time, you'll know, you know, this
guy has a really great facility and it's, you know, and then this other person, you
know, it's not so nice over there.
So maybe you want to choose, you know, option number A or letter A rather.
I'm finding people will, will like ask me questions about that knowing that they don't
have a case, but they're like, which, who do you like in this area?
Right.
Exactly.
And it also builds trust as well because, you know, a lot of people aren't thinking lawsuit
after a car accident.
They're thinking about their health, which is absolutely the right approach.
And if they ask you for help with that, you want to give them the best help because at
the end of the day, if they choose to bring a lawsuit, they want to use you.
You want them to want to use you.
So, you know, knowing doctors who can, who know what they're doing in terms of treating
these type of injuries, you know, a herniation for a 20 year old is completely different
than a herniation for a 60 year old.
Right.
And doctors who understand that you build those through doing what we do, knowing who's
good and, you know, who knows what they're doing.
And you also show that you're like a valuable source of information and a trustworthy source
of information.
You know, oh, I went to that person and they were, they're really good.
Thank you for, you know, letting me know.
And then, you know, the next time when something happens, they come back to you because they,
now they trust, you know, your, your referrals.
Right.
And I'll tell you why every, all of these networking groups want a personal injury attorney.
It's because we touch, you know, we've clients from every end of the spectrum and everybody
needs a financial advisor.
Everybody's going to sell their home at some point.
Everybody's going to need a dentist.
Everybody needs an accountant.
We are exposed to so many people that people, you know, that these networking groups want
us.
And if they want us, they need to earn us and they need to earn us by giving us business
as well.
So it works.
And getting injured isn't something that exclusively happens to one, you know, gender or race or
a socioeconomic group.
It could happen to anybody, you know, at the drop of a hat.
Exactly.
Which is why you just need to meet people and give out your cards.
It's awkward.
I know.
Talk to your Uber drivers.
You never know.
Worst case you never hear from these people ever again, they take your card, they throw
it in the garbage.
You never know.
All you need is that one big case, right?
Yep.
I got a call one time from an Uber driver, but it was like something completely crazy
that, you know, you know, you get those, they want you to take on a case that doesn't
make any sense or something like that.
And you got to explain to them.
Yeah, but my craziest call also was from an Uber driver.
He got hit by a stray bullet.
And wants to find the guy who shot him for negligence.
Oh my God.
I mean, I mean, that would, that person probably was negligent.
Right.
And then I had to explain the likelihood of first catching the guy.
Right.
Second of all, that person having any type of assets.
Yeah.
You don't get an insurance policy for negligent gun usage.
But thankfully that individual never followed up with me.
So I never had to have that problem.
Right.
Are there any other avenues of networking that you, that you do that we haven't really
touched on yet?
Sure.
So talk a little bit about the networking events, you know, all bar association events,
things like that, you know, every, every subgroup of every, whatever you could think
of has a bar association.
Like I said, IBO has multiple of these broader networking events throughout the year, which
are fine.
The problem is, is that even time out, IBO or BNI for these broader networking groups
is that now you got all the local ones and I'm one of a hundred PI attorneys at these
things.
I'm one of a hundred attorneys, you know, at the, at the, you know, NASA bar association,
you know, events, whatever they are.
So, you know, they're good.
You know, it's always good to meet people like I said, but if you're going to go that
route, stand out.
I mean, I went to the last two years, I went to the Columbia, the Colombian Association,
a big barbecue the last two years, but that's the Italian American Bar Association, essentially.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Very Catholic.
So, the first guy I was telling people, I could filth the fish out of water.
Oh, geez.
So, you know, that's what I was doing.
I was making, you know, dumb Jewish puns and whatever that maybe somebody said to me would
have insulted me, but whatever.
Got to stick out.
But the next year, everyone remembered me as the Jew from last year.
If you're going to these things, you want to stand out.
Right.
That's good advice.
Is there any networking avenues you're going to go down that you haven't done yet?
Because after having this conversation, I'm definitely signing up for one of these networking
groups.
You know, even if I got to get myself out of bed at six o'clock in the morning.
Yeah.
I would definitely tell you, it's just once a week, you know, you can find groups that
will let you join other groups as well, that you're not just beholden to one group.
You know, like I said, it's all random anyways.
If you're going to wait for somebody to know someone who got hurt, that's one thing, but
it just helps you meet people.
In terms of other ways to do it, you know, like I said, every opportunity, everything
you do is a networking opportunity.
You know, I do talk to my adversaries after a trial, you know, especially with defense
attorneys.
You never know.
You know, something comes across their desk.
They do defense.
They don't do plaintiff.
Maybe they'll sign something over.
You know, it's, those are really like the main things.
You just, other attorneys, they're our best referral source.
You know, and that's really what it is.
You just got to get out there.
You got to meet people, but you got to be out there and meet people in the right circumstances.
Like I said, you want to be, you want to be one fish in a giant ocean of 100,000 PI
attorneys at, you know, the plaintiff's bar event.
But, but also whenever you see people, whenever you meet someone else, someone new, do not
be shy.
Bragg about yourself.
I bragged about going to the court, about filing an appeal with the court of appeals
the other day.
Okay.
I was actually at my networking breakfast, who's last Wednesday, and we're talking about
certain things, new things that are going on.
I said, I filed the court of appeals brief and I'm going to argue in a couple of months,
hopefully, and I turned to the divorce attorney at the tea house.
Have you ever done that?
Oh, twice my age.
No, I haven't.
I'm at the estate law attorney.
Have you ever done that?
No, I haven't.
Now everyone's like, wow.
I've been to the court of appeals.
I was second seat though.
I didn't say anything, but I was there.
I was physically in that court.
Well, you were on that team.
So you, so you argued at the court of appeals.
There you go.
Like I said, I said at the breakfast, you know, that's so cool.
Right.
That's so cool that you did that.
That's so cool that I'm going to do that.
But what's it worth if you just patting yourself on the back?
Well, you know that you did it.
Exactly.
So, you know, and if I get this case overturned, it's going on Facebook.
It's going on Instagram.
There you go.
It should, it should be something to be proud of.
So if somebody wants to network with you or follow you or reach out for any reason, you
know, where could, where could people find you who might see or listen to this?
Facebook, Instagram, go to our, my firm's website, post, you know, if we have something
big, it goes on there.
And hopefully I'll have a commercial soon.
You got a handle or an email or anything that people should look for?
Sure.
A-fine at ekjwa.com is my email.
Instagram is just search Aaron Fine, Facebook, Aaron Fine.
Yeah.
You know, it's, there you go.
All right, Aaron.
Nice chat with you today.
Have a good one.
Always.
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