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How's it going everyone? Welcome to another episode of the Bronx Attorney broadcast. Today's guest is Zach Bogel.

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Many of you might know Zach from Stalemates and the Street League productions that he's been putting on,

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but he also owns a very successful barbershop in Iowa, and today we're going to talk about what got him into cutting hair initially,

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what made him decide to open his own barbershop and what's coming up for Street League and Stalemates next.

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Hey Zach, thanks for taking the time to talk with me tonight. I'm really excited to ask you some questions.

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Yeah, thanks for having me. I like being on this side of the conversation.

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Not the host for once?

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Yeah, that's good.

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So could you just start off by telling us a little bit about your background?

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So I don't know how far back you want to go, but I grew up in a small town, Southern Iowa, a little town called Centerville.

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It's kind of like a kind of like a lake town, but you know, we had the necessities and everything that, everything that I needed we had,

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and that's a place that I'm super grateful to be from. It's a town where a lot of people, you know, want to graduate and move on and not really go back to,

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but I had a really good upbringing and good group of friends down there and I love, love where I'm from, but yeah, small town Iowa kid pretty much.

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Yeah, and do you still live there? Are you moved away after that?

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I moved away, so I graduated high school and then I went up to Iowa State University, which is about two and a half hours from where I'm from,

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and my sister was going to school there at the time and I had a cousin that was wrestling at Iowa State at the time as well, and he's like a brother to me, so,

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just kind of knew that I wanted to go up there, so I left, you know, Centerville at 18, I went to Iowa State for one year for a cup of coffee, finished that year,

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and then decided I wanted to be a barber and pretty much everything, my whole life changed after that, you know, it was kind of, I found what I wanted to do and

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didn't really know what I wanted to do before that, so it was one of those things where, you know, it's a huge weight off my shoulders, taking a risk like that and being able to find,

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you know, something that you're passionate about is something that I hope everybody finds, so.

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So it sounds like you were an Iowa State University family, how do people in Iowa decide, you know, whether they're going to be Iowa State, you know, Iowa, or, you know, UNI?

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It's very territorial here because we don't have, you're in New York, right, New York City, so you have the Mets, you have the Yankees, you have the Jets, you have the Giants, we have the,

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yeah, we have the Iowa Hawkeyes and Iowa State Cyclones, so for us here it's very embedded in the culture of being in Iowa and I feel like it's finding, you know, finding your team and, you know, for me, I actually grew up

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an Ohio State fan, the Hawkeyes, because my family's from Ohio, we actually almost moved there once when I was in junior high, we almost moved to like the Toledo area because that's where they're from.

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And so I had family in Ohio and my parents, neither one of them went to like a huge university like that, and so they didn't really have like a connection.

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My dad was kind of a Hawkeye actually, but not really anything he was super passionate about, but I was an Ohio State fan because the family connection to the state of Ohio and the first football game, especially college football game that I ever remember was the

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Hawkeyes when they played Miami in like the 2002 Fiesta Bowl, and they were really, they were really good. So obviously when you're a kid, you tend to like the schools that are really good.

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And living in Iowa, I would tell people I'm an Ohio State fan and they would just call me a bandwagon, they would call me a bandwagon fan and I hated that.

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I like to think of myself as like a very true sports fan. And so I did not like when someone called me a bandwagon fan and they would ask me, well, why do you like Ohio State and I really didn't have the answer why other than, you know, family and so I was like, you know what, at the time Iowa State was

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terrible. And I was always been pretty good at sports and different sports, but I just was like, you know what, I'll just be an Iowa State fan because they are not good at anything right now.

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And that's just going to be my team because no one can call me a bandwagon. So I picked Iowa State. And then obviously my sister went there later on and right, right.

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You know, I had family members that went and that's kind of how I picked it, you know.

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Okay. And so back to your career as a barber, how did that journey begin.

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So I went to this is actually kind of a funny story. I don't know how much you want to get into the weeds, but I was going to share.

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I was going to Iowa State and didn't really know what I wanted to do and I'm kind of a person I need a plan. I like to.

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I'm impulse but I also I like to have a plan and anytime I don't really have like a plan or a vision of what I want to do I kind of freak out internally and I just didn't really have a plan and I was passing on my classes I've always done well in school it really, you know, it was pretty simple fresh

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from the air basic stuff so just didn't really know for sure what what what I wanted and I would go to Iowa City every weekend to Iowa to University of Iowa because I had made a group of friends at Iowa State but they really weren't like the friends I grew up with and they

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were very like church focused and they did this whole they were doing the whole religion part of college you know there's like the groups on campus that are like really church influenced.

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Okay, I did not sign up to go to college for that you know I signed up to go to college like everybody else I wanted a party on the weekends I wanted to tailgate want to do this and that.

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So the group of friends that I met, they were a great group of guys but they really weren't doing what I wanted out of my college experience so I would get in my car I would drive to this Community College I pick up my friend who was playing juko baseball, and then we would drive to Iowa City, and we would party on the weekends.

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Okay, well one of those weekends I got in trouble for drinking, and I was, you know, 18, the cop walks in, and I was sitting you can be a minor and go to the bar you just have to be out by 10 o'clock.

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Okay, so we would, we would go and party at the bar and then 10 o'clock would come and then we would go out of there well.

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Some of my friends were older than me and they were 21 and I was 18 so I was, you know, I was always kind of I felt like the younger kid of our of our group of friends I was always like the youngest one. So I wanted to hang with them so I stuck around at the bar and when the cop came the cops would come in at 10 and look for

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minors well I looked 12 years old at the time.

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The cop comes in and I have my drink in my hand. Right. And we meet I contact and I, and I look at him he looks at me and I do the dumbest move all time but it changed my life, I took the beer and I put it on the table, like I was like, you know, look at him like oh crap, and I set it down.

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Right. So he says, alright, you know, I was stupid so he brings me outside writes me a ticket. It's funny because he actually had cauliflower ears I was like oh easy. It's got cauliflower ear I can talk to him I can name talk about a writing you a citation.

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Exactly. So he does. So I'm like, oh you went to Iowa City West you know this guy I know him to that we're having a good time and then he slides this ticket across the table it's $330 and I remember it's just thinking like, I asked him I'm like what is this he's like it's a possession of alcohol under the legal age.

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And I'm like, well, you know, what does that mean he's like it's a $300 fine like $300 he's like, he's like we'll calm down you're not going to jail or anything and I was like well can I go to jail so I don't have to pay this like I was willing to go to jail to not pay that right.

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I have pretty strict parents that like they don't you know, my sister she never got in trouble for anything she was homecoming queen she NHS top five she had a full ride like never ever done anything wrong in her life you know.

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And so for me I was more the wild, not wild or wasn't super wild but just more your average kid he gets in trouble from time to time.

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I was always kind of pushing the envelope when it comes to that stuff so anyway so I have this ticket, I don't really have a way to pay for it because it was the end of the school year it was like March so I you know the funds are running low I'd work all summer save up that money and then spend it

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throughout the year on a budget so I really didn't have the $300 so I remember walking home from the bar with this ticket my and I remember just thinking like you just need to call home, come clean, whatever so I call my parents.

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I got this ticket, I can't pay for it this summer as soon as I start working I'll pay you guys all the money back.

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Yada yada yada and they were way more upset than I thought they would be so like come home so I go home.

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And they were like, you know had this big discussion with me on you know what are you doing why are you why are you getting in trouble, this this this and all these things and just having this you know,

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I just come to Jesus moment of trying to get me to focus on what I need to be focusing on. And, you know, I remember just this, I just didn't know what I wanted to do, and then they were like okay well we'll loan you the money you're going to pay us back, and then on top of that,

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I'm going to go help your cousin out my cousin. She had, she's a cosmetologist so she cuts hair, and she had just bought the salon that she had worked at for like seven years, and she, she was going to have to move locations of the salon so she bought it but she had to move it.

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They're like well loan you the money but you got to go help her out today and yada yada yada. So, I'm like okay so I go to help her my dad and I are carrying things we're having you know live talks as we're carrying things, you know in and out of the salon and the truck and this and that.

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And he's got one end of this like, like, you know those seats that old ladies sit under they have the hood and yeah yeah you know fries hair.

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And I'll forget this he had one side and I had one side and I remember just telling him like, as a joke I'm like you know if if I was state doesn't work out I'll just go cut hair with Jessica all day, you know, and I was just said it jokingly.

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And he kind of laughed and I laughed and then the rest of the day just kind of that joke just sat in my head and I was thinking I thinking and thinking and so keep in mind I get in trouble on a Friday.

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This is a Saturday, this is a Saturday, but it kept in my mind I go home back to I go back to Ames on Sunday to our drive. I'm thinking about it the whole drive. I get the Ames I get my computer out I start YouTube and like, barbaraing career barbers.

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And that because my vision of a barbers like the 70 year old guy that you know learn to cut hair because he went to Vietnam. Yeah, so I was thinking like all these old guys are going to retire and there's going to be nobody refill their spots and I start doing the math on, you know what I thought I could make.

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And I found a barber school that night online. So that's Sunday. And I remember Monday I called my parents I'm like I'm going to go look at this barber school there's a barber school in Des Moines.

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I'm not aware you are but Des Moines 30 minutes south of Ames. And so my, my parents, you know I got good parents they're like, you know, well, if you're if you're really thinking about doing this, we want to come so they came with me.

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It's in like kind of a, I don't want to say a sketchy part of Des Moines but it, you know you think about the people that go to barber school it's usually.

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People that are at a barber school it's usually people who, how do I put this like, you know people who are paying $6 a haircut are always going to be like, you know, the, you know the people you want to be around I guess.

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So these are the people that you're practicing on that you're talking about or. Yeah, yeah, they're like, they're like so we show to the school and there's all the, you know the barber school clients are there it's like usually like we would cut a lot of like refugees we would cut a lot of homeless people just a lot of

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people who couldn't afford to go to like a great clips or sports clips or a barber shop or salons because the haircuts were like $5 right. So we go in there it's kind of scary you know it's like I'm coming from a small town where there's like, you know, I'm a quarter Mexican and I was like the minority guy,

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you know what I mean like, it was very, very white farm town and then I go to school, and it's very much the opposite of what I grew up around. And so, I remember, signing up and just being in, you know, I signed so I remember I signed up on like, you know, had the thought on a Sunday, or a Saturday and I signed up on

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Wednesday. And I remember just being like screw it, I'm just going to be fully immersed in, and whatever it is and I had a had a great time in barber school. And it was pretty much from there is you know, did you did you like drop out mid semester to go to barber school or like how

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No, my parents said you have to finish so they're like you never know how this is going to work so you have to finish the year so I never failed a class before so it was very important to me I did not want to fail so I it was really really hard to be like, I'm probably never going to come back and I'm probably

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never going to use these credits but you've never failed a class so like pay attention enough to where you pass, but like my mind was already like, I'm out of here and like I didn't even tell the friends that I did have at Iowa State I didn't even tell that I was moving because I didn't want them to talk to me

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and I was like, you know you tell somebody like, hey, I'm thinking about doing this their first reaction because I care about you is normally like, hey, maybe don't drop out of school to be a barber because you never even talked about this before and that you had one thought I didn't want that so I didn't

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tell anybody like I'm just going to do it. And then if they're going to say these negative things, and I'm going to be like, well it's too late already signed up. So, that's kind of how that went down.

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And while you're like, hey mom and dad aren't you glad I wanted that beer when I was 18 years old. I definitely had those conversations with them and like, I'm lucky that they never.

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They had those thoughts of like, we don't want him to be a barber, but they never told me those thoughts until I had already like, you know, made it or like started once they started figuring out like I make them, you know, certain amount of money or whatever then, you know, they're like oh he can afford to buy a house and stuff and then they told me like hey we really

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don't want you to be a barber but I have good parents and they never told me that until, you know, they never told me that till I would already kind of been doing well you know.

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Yeah so did you get like a certificate for completing barber school or.

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Yeah, so you, yeah you do a year of barber school which is essentially just show up at eight work till five, and then you go home and you basically logging hours I call it like it's almost like prison and you're just doing time.

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You do time at the school, when you're done with that.

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You take all your tests, and then when you're done you have to go take in every states different but I would I think is the most strict state or the second most strict.

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When you're done with the barber school so you get all your hours done you have to take your boards just like you would for, you know, being a lawyer, nurse, doctor or whatever you go take your state boards, you pass your, your written tests, your practical and then you become a barber.

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Okay, and you have your own shop now right.

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Yeah, yeah, so I just opened my own shop in January, and it's been, it's been good I worked somewhere else for seven years.

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Okay, yeah.

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And then so what made you decide after seven years of working was it the same place you're working at.

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Yeah, so when I graduated barberschool I actually moved back to my hometown I worked there for four months actually I ended up working for my cousin who I said joke, the one person I said jokingly that I come you know maybe I just go here at Jessica.

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So I actually graduated from Barber School I moved back to my hometown, which is two hours away.

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I realized I didn't belong in the small town anymore like I would go home on breaks and I'd have a good time and I thought man it's still being back home and so I went back home, I quickly realized, I'm not going to like progress and be where I want to be in the small town.

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Like I said it's a great place to be from but I knew to get to where I wanted to go. I needed to move so I moved.

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And actually, I really wasn't planning on moving, but I had a really good mentor of mine, a guy that I had really looked up to while I was at Barber School he had already kind of figured out the business side of things, and he was like hey I'm going to go open up my own shop it's going to be downtown Des Moines which is a great area to be in.

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And he's like do you want to come and I told him no at first because I had started building up my clientele and I had already kind of started building you know something good. Well then, you know he kept calling and kept calling and the more he called the more I realized he was right and I really didn't want to be in a small town anymore.

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So he said, you know, he just kept calling eventually I was like you know what what do I have to lose on me. You know I think this time I was, I think I was, let's see, so I signed up at Barber School at 19 graduated 20 so I was like 20 years old at the time.

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And so I was about to turn 21 all my friends were at colleges having fun and so I was like you know what, I want to move to Des Moines. So I ended up moving back to Des Moines, and I worked for him he was a good mentor of mine, I wouldn't be where I'm at now, even, even.

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outside of barbering I wouldn't be where I'm at without him so he was a really good mentor of mine.

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I worked for him for seven years and you know, as you progress in life I kind of got to a point where I was like all right, you know, we had just had another price raise.

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My clients stayed with me, my clients have shown me a lot of loyalty throughout the years. I was just kind of, it's just kind of the next logical step is like opening your own thing so.

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And Des Moines there's really not a lot of great haircutting establishment so I knew, I knew that if I moved to where I opened my shop I'd have success and you know six months later we're ready to hire a third barber now you know things are going good.

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So was that something that you were always kind of working towards opening your own shop, like ever since the beginning or when did that feeling start to like set in.

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Um, yes and no, it wasn't like, you know, that that feeling would come and go right like it would be like in barber school I had that feeling and then when I became a barber under my mentor, it was like, I didn't really want to leave because things are things are really good I had a good client

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and a good hotel built up and you know I'm making good money we charged, you know decent amount and I really didn't see myself going that direction and then obviously as you mature and you get older I remember telling at some point you know I'll be here for my 20s.

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You know now I'm older I'm not 30 but I'm upper 20s and I'm like okay it's just kind of one of those things I'm kind of bored with where I'm at and not bored with cutting here but just bored professionally and I just had, you know I started the podcast and, and

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you know, I learned a lot through that process I learned how to, you know, start an LLC and how to, you know, manage talent and do things and I was like, you know, do I just sit at the shop and cut hair for the next 40 years until I can't cut hair anymore, or do I try to challenge myself and, and grow and I'm, I get, I get bored really really fast so I kind of always got to be, I got to be doing things, I get bored fast so I was just kind of like all right.

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Once I'm, once I'm bored with something I immediately want to tackle the challenge of not being bored and that's when I do that's when I open my own shop that's when I started the podcast and stuff like that so.

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Okay, and I don't think you mentioned what's the name of your barber shop and where is it.

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It's called Heartland Barbers, and it's in West Des Moines, Iowa. So Des Moines kind of weird it's almost like the Twin Cities where you have two cities connected so Des Moines is Des Moines is like the big city, and then West Des Moines is like what the biggest suburb but it's a separate city.

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So I'm in West, I'm in the West side of Des Moines.

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Yes, I think there might be some people from New York and New Jersey turning tuning into this that are getting a geography lesson right now.

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Yeah, sorry about that.

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No, that's okay.

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But what do you what would you say is it was your biggest surprise or challenge in going from employee to business owner.

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Um, you know I've never really been a manager, like I had jobs growing up but a lot of the ways that I made money growing up was entrepreneurial so I never really I never really like the idea of my clock it in and getting paid a certain amount and, and that whole thing I

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never really liked that so I was always pretty self independent I guess, but when you become kind of when you become the owner you become more of a manager and you realize that not everybody is.

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You know, getting everybody on the same page getting people to buy into like a culture and like really learning to be a leader and not just, you know somebody who just shows up, you know, as far as like the day to day task goes it's not too hard but as far as like, you

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know, realizing what you say to somebody really means something and just really being around different personalities I realized that to working at the shop and they used to work there were seven of us and you know the way that I grew up and the way that I was raised isn't the same way as other

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people so you have to figure out different ways to really connect with people and like, you know, even even like sense of humor is different with different people, you know I grew up a very, I always say like nobody roasts better than my mom.

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Like they any insecurities that I had growing up they would they would poke fun and like that was almost there our way of like conversation and whatnot where like, I would go and say certain things that people and it might rub them the wrong way and are being really honest with somebody.

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And isn't always the best option and you got to really learn like hey, what's the best way with connecting this person that's going to make them really enjoy working here and and what's going to make them motivated and and those things are challenges that I face to this day you know we're trying to hire a third person and

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just talking to people and interviewing people it's it's tough, but as far as like the the task goes you know I feel like you got to have a system, and you know I have a good system and you know the mentor that had was was really good at that and, and just being able to watch him from afar and

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you know I feel like I'm a really good observer and observing the way that people, whether it's coaches or or bosses or managers or coworkers just really observing people and realizing like, this is what gets this guy motivated okay well, you know, let me try this or,

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you know, and then once you once you get things really rolling it's a it's a well oiled machine and you know I have one kid working for me now that I'm really proud of because he's even the six months that I've been around him he's really, you know just realizing what I do affects him, and he might not

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know that but just being able to see my actions reflect what he does is is really amazing to watch but it's a challenge.

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And so what would you say is the most rewarding aspect of owning your own business.

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The most rewarding aspect.

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You know the kid, the kid that I hired he was probably booked. So we do appointments right so a way to tell how well you're doing is how far out your book and and when he first started.

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He he was, you know I remember convincing him like hey I promise you like if you just trust me, I will make sure that you're busy I will make sure that you, you do all right. And, you know, he was cutting hair in an area of town where I was from so we were going to go and open a shop 20 minutes so it's a

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you know telling somebody like hey you're gonna have to travel, you know, 20 minutes in the other direction to come here and being able to look at his book and see how booked up he is now because of, you know, my plan that I had it, it feels really good to see to see that you

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are doing it because if he came out there and he and everything went bad for him and make me you know I don't know what I would do I feel terrible. So, being able to being able to see like hey we're ready. Like we're we turn away people now and, and, you know, it's a it's a, you know,

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it's a good marketer and just to know that just to know that the things that you're doing are paying off feels really really well. That's great. And then, so what kind of advice would you have somebody who might be straddling that fence, maybe not just in hair cutting

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but in in something similar where they're thinking, you know, I have it pretty good now but I really want to do my own thing. You know what would you tell somebody who's in that position.

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Oh man, that's a really good question I had a different answer ready, but then you changed it.

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It's got a few right you know I don't think you should ever jump the gun, but at the same time, if you're, if you're confident, and you have a plan, then start there right.

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I was just having a conversation with my dad the other day about this because he's very, he's very risk adverse. Not, I mean he's, he's successful and what he does and, and he's, he's an entrepreneur and I've learned a lot through him but we differ in the fact that he wants everything planned out to a T, right.

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I'm much more macro, and he's very micro so my dad wants, like I remember sitting down with him table okay you can charge this much. This is how many haircuts that you can do in a day.

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He unbunounced the me went and talked to a barber and talked to him about, you know the financial side of things and he's lucky that the guy was pretty, you know, cool with it.

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So we came home and I said you can make this much will just. I'm the opposite, I'm, I want to do this I will figure out those micro things along the way.

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Like, right, and so I'm more like here's my overall vision, I'm just going to do it.

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I'm just going to make whatever that first step is I'm just going to do it, and I'll figure out every step along the way and I think you got to figure out, you know if you're if you're working for you know let's say, let's say you're a bartender and you want to you want to open a bar one day you got to realize that when

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you're an owner there's going to be these annoyances. And if you're, if you're willing to put up with so much speed bumps if you're willing to do that and you're a problem solver you're going to be fine.

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If you don't enjoy those things and you just enjoy the act of making a drink or pouring a beer or having a conversation.

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Then just just stay doing that, you know, but if you enjoy the active clean in the bar, opening the bar closing the bar, having conversations, the bookkeeping if you enjoy all those you'll be fine.

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If you only enjoy the part of pouring a drink, you know, I think you also have a very good, you have to have a good self awareness of what you like and you have to kind of have like an attention check.

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You know what are my intentions of working here are my intentions to really grow this business and make it my own, or as my intentions just, I want to make more money if your intentions are just you want to make more money.

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It's very expensive and, and, you know, it can be very, if money is your passion, you probably shouldn't do it, you know, yeah.

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So do you think that you should wait to that point where you're like, okay, I'm ready, or do you think that you need to take a little bit of a leap of faith there.

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It's always going to be a leap of faith, but I think you have to be ready you know, if I would have, if I would have opened a shop when I, you know, if I would have opened a shop right out of Barber School I would have, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be half as successful as I am now because I don't think that in hindsight I wasn't ready.

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I feel like you'll know when the time is right, and when, when that time is right, then you should act fast because, you know, you know, I just don't think you should ever really be stagnant in life.

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And as soon as you get bored with something that you love, you know it's time to move on. And I've always loved barboring I've never had a single day where I've like been like, you know, I don't really want to go into work today, you know you have days where you're like,

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I'm not allowed to hear I'm tired of tired of dealing with people, but as far as you know waking up in the morning, I love my commute to work. I love being around my clients.

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I love all that. And so I knew I was going to be all right no matter what and you know, as far as the risk goes I think there's always risk involved but at the end of the day you if you say, take all these things away from me what's your life look like.

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It's not bad as long as you're healthy and you know you're you know you got your friends and family it's not all that other stuff doesn't really matter, you know, I think that's great advice.

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Yeah, thanks.

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This episode of the Bronx Attorney broadcast was brought to you by me will Ferraro.

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I'm an attorney of prior law right here in the Bronx, and we primarily practice in personal injury. However, we do also do a variety of areas of practice. So I can help you with just about any sort of legal issue that you might have I'm admitted to practice both in New York and New Jersey.

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And if it's not something that I can personally help you with, I can connect you with someone in my network of attorneys who is best equipped to help you with your legal issue. You can find me on Instagram and on Twitter at Bronx attorney.

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You can send me an email for a prior law or call me at the office 718-829-0222. And now back to the show.

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All right, now let's segue into something that I think most viewers and listeners will know you from and that's stalemates.

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My, my biggest question is stalemates is stalemates a second business, or is it a hobby, or is it both.

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So I started a hobby now it's the second business for sure, especially with street league and stuff going on. It's, it's definitely become more of a business and you know the more that we grow. It's becoming more and more of, it's becoming more and more of a business so

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wasn't always wasn't always supposed to be that way, you know.

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You know, wrestling is a fairly small market, and there's already some some large companies in that small market.

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What made you think you know what I can get in there and provide something that these other, you know, media outlets might not.

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I mean, it's simple for me I still a fan and I'm always going to be a wrestling fan and I, and I love wrestling content like I always loved watching like flow radio and I liked, you know, paying attention to what was going on and

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it just felt like we never really got a true behind the scenes look at wrestling and you know whether that be wrestling media whether that be the wrestlers themselves.

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You know wrestlers in general aren't very.

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It's better now that it was before but it's not a very. I don't want to say it's never been shown in like a fun light, you know, especially being in Iowa it's always been very much like wrestlers are tough.

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You know you show how much hard work you put in on the mat, you don't talk about it. You.

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It's always just been so like results based and like not necessarily marketed well and I've always felt like I've been a good marker my whole life.

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Back in the, you know, back when I was 21 22 and my early days of barbering I was like, I like, and even in high school I like promoted parties and stuff so I always felt like I had this like, always felt like I had this niche to get people excited about

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something right so I was throwing parties in my small hometown.

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That don't have like a party atmosphere at all but I knew what got me excited and so I was like I know it gets me excited. I can get these other people excited they're going to want to come to these parties that I'm thrown and we would have like 300 people at a bar like

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Wow.

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You know, in my hometown of 5000 people. So I've always had this very, I feel like a high emotional intelligence of what gets me excited. So then when I looked at, you know, the wrestling landscape I'm like, man like, don't get me wrong I think you know the people at flow are great I think

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Willie's great I think, I think there are definitely good people in wrestling media and I didn't really know too much about Ryan Warner and wrestling changed my life. I didn't know too much about like blood round or or these other people.

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So I found out about them later on but at the time I just didn't really know that those things existed so I was like I want to do what I want to do. And I knew like the platform on YouTube really wasn't being utilized and wrestling it was always behind these paywalls it was always you know like,

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you'll hear about the complaints with flow and their paywall and then rock rock really wasn't a thing at the time so.

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And even like InterMAT had their subscription I'm like nobody's putting a free content but every other sport in the world that's way bigger than wrestling. It's all for free on YouTube. Why is it anybody doing this now I found out later on there are people doing it but I just felt like it

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really wasn't being done how we do things and I think the reason why we, you know, succeeded in the beginning was just because people were kind of thrown off by it.

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Yeah, it seems like a lot of other wrestling media outlets there they're very informational and right that's kind of provided, not in as much of a fun context as a mate does it.

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So was that always the idea is to like put a more fun spin on it.

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Yeah, 100%.

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I've talked about this before on other podcasts I've done we recorded like three episodes before we ever put anything out, because it was like we wanted, we wanted to practice you know, and and I, we had too much fun on those so I was like okay.

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It's a little too far like, it's a little too honest right so we you know we dialed it down and, and you know the goal was always to be.

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I think the laziest thing you can do is just do what everybody else does right so the goal is always to be different, and we wanted to cover it in a different aspect like we wanted to cover it from.

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I hate using this term because people don't like the forums, but I always found myself as a wrestling fan, going to these forums to find out the inside scoop and to find out what was going on behind the scenes because there seemed to be people like even Willie right like,

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Willie was one of the people from flow that would go on the forums and kind of give a different side of him that he would give on an fRL right so then I was like finding myself go into the hot guy report and you know the Facebook forums really weren't really a thing until you know I didn't find out about those until I started doing the show but

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I found myself always going to there before I would go to these other outlets so I'm like, this is way more enjoyable now is there a lot of toxic people and those things absolutely but there's also, there's also information that I wanted and I was like, I'm going to try to take the best parts of like these forums,

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and be way less toxic hopefully and you know I think that'll work and I think it has and I think it is and I think you know we're always kind of changing things and you know we might do things that other people have done but you know I think you know as long as we stay true to you know what

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we're just here and you know we've changed our formats and we've tried different things and I really like when people give me criticism because it's it's it's you know coming from an honest place as long as they're not just being you know you know there's a certain way to do that right but

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I love trying to figure out what people what people like I like asking people and I like meeting people and saying hey you know how'd you find this you know what age you want to you know pay attention to what we're doing and I really I'm really kind of obsessed with trying to figure it out.

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Okay, and when you say that, you know it was, you said something like you went a little too far or something like that was like, was that like you were too wacky you were too insulting to wrestlers or what do you mean by you went a little too far.

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I'm definitely insulting the wrestlers because you know, first of all, wrestling became really small really fast to me right like, I was having people come to the barbershop I used to work at that I didn't tell that I had a podcast and they were coming in and saying like hey I, you know I heard,

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you know, they were like, they were finding out about it and so I was like holy crap like what I say actually gets put out there, you know what I mean like at first nobody was listening so I didn't really care, you know.

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So we would kind of just say like things that you know you might say over beer with your friend. Yeah, and then I found out really fast like it's not that hard for someone to, you know, find you said.

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I found that out with the Oklahoma, you know when we got with Oklahoma State I don't know how far back you paid attention but you know when I got into it with Oklahoma State coach about you know the dating fix thing I compared him to OJ Simpson and like.

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Oh my god.

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You know, and like finding out like oh wait like, I say something.

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People will listen. It's not just me and my buddies anymore.

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Right. Yeah. And so is there is there a significant crossover from like barbershop clients and people who listen to or watch what you're doing through stalemates.

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I try to really keep it separate honestly, just because I'm so paranoid of like somebody who doesn't like me from stalemates interfering with how I actually, you know, make money in my life. So I try to keep them separate but I'm not like it's not like super secretive

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or anything you know I think I put out things on Twitter I don't usually say the name of the shop or like where it's at or stuff like that but.

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I'm starting to get more and more people will call fire here in my chair which is cool. I love it. It's awesome because you know I love talking about wrestling with people and and everything like that and I hope I meet their expectation of, you know,

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the best of me, whatever that is. But, you know, being in Iowa wrestling is big so I got recognized at this donut shop next to our barbershop the other day this guy walked out of the bathroom and he gave me this look and it was a look of like different kind of look when you meet

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this guy. I've seen you before. Yeah, and what's funny is he kept he I was like well that was like a really weird look right so that he walks past me doesn't say anything and when he walked past me I kind of turned around like, do I know him why did I why did he look at me that way.

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And when I look back at him he also was looking back at me to figure out if it was me or not and he's like, he's like stalemates what's up there. That's funny. That's really funny.

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Yeah, so it's becoming it's becoming crossover but you know I try to keep him try to keep it a little separate. Yeah, and I feel like you guys are starting to play characters a little bit to more lately would you agree with that.

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What do you mean, it's what do you mean, like you're doing a little bit more acting with your bits lately.

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Well, like, you know, Tyler with the, with the lawyer bit the other day. Yeah, but yeah so, you know, that was more like a commercial right so like we were like all right we got to figure out funny ways to do these ads, we bought a green screen it was like, you know we're trying to figure

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out ways to do it. And, you know, we try to. I found out, you know, going through old content, and I'm always trying to figure out what we're doing I'm always trying to figure out what made people initially fall in love with still mates and I think a lot of it was like,

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we're being informative but we would also kind of be funny right and I felt like sometimes when you just do our weekly shows, we kind of can fall on those ladies, you know the laser side of things and just do recaps and I don't really like doing, you know, I don't know why anybody would

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think that I have to, my opinion of like how a match is going to go down right like it's going to happen. It's going to happen. So, you know, people come to us because they want to find out what's going on a wrestling and so I'm trying to get trying to get back to that a little bit and I try to be conscious of like,

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really being yourself on camera and I and you know I want to get back to like if you and I were having a beer and hopefully we do in New York but yeah I really want to get back to like, I want to feel like the crowd is an extension of us and we know it's like if we were if we're all having a beer together,

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how would this conversation about wrestling going down. It's very rare I feel like you sit down with somebody who also knows wrestling and you start breaking down someone's high crotch or you know low egg usually doesn't go down that way so I wanted to be natural and and hopefully I'm not playing a character of myself.

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Okay, so not so not so much acting in the future then.

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Tyler Tyler in the, the ad that was more of a character yeah.

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Got it so then, how did you come up with the idea of putting a card together and creating street league.

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Well, I know that you're pretty active in the community and when COVID went down everybody was putting these cards together and very naively, I was like that's not that hard, I don't think that that that's that hard, like, what's that look like.

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And, you know, I was like, we're not going to be able to afford anybody that's good and none of the good guys are really going to want to compete something like this right.

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So we just started calling up, you know, I remember calling my, my neighbor wrestlers like he was the first match tonight I was like hey, would you want to do this and he, you know, I think I'm crazy.

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And he's like, yeah, I'll do it. So I found him an opponent then I call up other friends I start just calling people that I know like kind of talk them into this idea of like hey you want to go wrestle one more time but you talk about wanting to get in shape and this and that.

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And it became, you know, one thing after another we put out, I think we had talked about on the show we started getting guys who are like Colt McRistow reached out and he's he's really good and I remember thinking like, holy crap like Colt McRistow wants to do this.

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He listens to our show. I remember thinking like that guy listens to our show he's a stud, you know, and so he ends up, you know, I'm like, okay, well we got to find someone halfway decent to face Colt McRistow.

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Oh, Chris Dardane's just moved into town. Let's see what that looks like. So then, you know, next thing you know we're like, okay, well like some of these bigger name guys that we won are going to want paid well how do we do that okay we got to sell tickets and then it became next thing you know Kyvin and Pat down here like talking trash.

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I'm literally sitting in Hawaii on vacation and Pat down he starts tweeting at us and I remember just thinking like, well, should we do it. And at the time, you know, he was canceled or whatever right and we were like we really need to make a splash and if we take the risk of like getting a lot of bad backlash for having him.

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And I was like it was going to be worth the reward because so many more people were going to find out about us. And, you know, that was true. It went down how it went down or whatever but you know I think at that point people realize okay these guys can like do it right.

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You know we had help from many people and then we're just like okay you know, Tony Hager for my wrestle he's put on cards I remember talking to him multiple times like hey what do we need okay you need insurance you need refs you need tape workers you need security you need this you need that, you know and going to the venues and trying to convince them

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like hey we you know we're doing this thing and they're they thought it was WWE type wrestling and trying to tell them it's not and yeah and they didn't they didn't understand and then even when you add someone like Kyvin like you know it's like yeah most these guys are like, you know, they were they have

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they have daytime jobs and they're just trying to have fun one more time but we also have this guy who's like an Olympic alternate national champion and like training and he's really high level and he's going to face this guy named Pat Downey who's canceled and yeah it just kind of became that right and then we did the first one it

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was like well we got this super high journal and found that we like got to do it again people really like Mikey and so we're like hey Mikey, you know, can we get you one more time. And he did it and then he kind of saw the fruits of like our, our like, you know, crowd and and our people who really like

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helped him and it really helped him in his end of a career. And so then you know, we started getting more wrestlers and it's really hard to tell some wrestlers like we get some big names and it's like hey we would love to have you but we just we can't afford you well now it's come to a point

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that we're doing better now and now we can go and get an Alex Marinelli versus the Richie Lewis and you know that's it's going to be our biggest one yet and it's it's the it's the most amount of money we've spent and you know we really don't want to outpriced ourselves if you realize you look at a lot of these flow

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cards and these Brockman cards, they're not doing them anymore because they pay too much money where we try to tell these guys like hey this isn't going to be your biggest payday but it's going to be fair. And, and it's going to be a good time and it doesn't mean anything at the end of the day you're not going to be any less of a wrestler

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because of it. You're also probably not going to be, you know, you know who knows what could happen afterwards but you're not going to make the world team by winning this pressure.

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I said earlier before I cut out when you think of these old timer tournaments I don't know does New Jersey have any big old old timer tournaments for you guys in New York.

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There are some in New York and New Jersey but you know I'm not really I don't keep up with them. I don't I don't compete.

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Yeah, and, and people know if you wrestle before it's really freaking hard you know. So if you want to do the only, the only post collegiate post high school things that you can do are those old timer tournaments which it's like wrestling is really hard to wrestle for

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seven minutes for seven minutes. If you're doing a tournament you're at least going to wrestle twice maybe three four times, and you're out of shape, like that does not sound fun plus nobody really goes to those there's really not a crowd or we're like hey, you can go.

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Am I still there.

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I was like hey you can come and wrestle in this in this do me style thing you're going to wrestle once your friends and family are coming and they they can drink beer and you can watch these other things oh and at the end of the night we also have like this kind of you know high level

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match that you guys can all stay and watch and people really like it you know you got guys like exact gold rosin that are really taking it to an X level and they're doing promos and the kid that he's wrestling thinking what the heck is this you know right.

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That's like one week.

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Yeah, so like that's kind of the idea right like Mikey, you know, Mikey at first didn't get paid anything. And then the next one I was like hey we'll make you the main event if you'll come back because people really gravitated towards you and you're going to wrestle this you see fighter, and you know you'll be the

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main event and you can make this now and then you know he did it. It was like the best match of the night, and now we get to do. He's going to do his third he's getting paid.

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He's getting paid more, you know, more than he did the first time so it's, it's, you know, we're trying to do it's, you know, I got to check my intention sometime and realize how far do I really want to go with this thing but you know if guys like Zach gold rosin and Mikey and,

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you know, Sam White and Dylan Cox these guys that have done it on every one of our cards that they keep wanting to do it and we have high level guys keep wanting to do it. I don't know why we wouldn't keep doing it you know wrestling's never had a pro league and we don't have intentions of doing

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that do we add no by no chance to it by no imagination do I ever think you know we're going to one day be like a career for these guys, but if it ever ends up being that way then that's a that's awesome and I think I think you should always start stuff with an organic

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and not hey we're trying to make this thing, you know, a career for these guys I feel like so many times in wrestling, we start off by just throwing so much money away, it doesn't do well because we spent so much thing money, and if there's no longevity in it, those things are

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always every time they do them they're one and done maybe to where we have plans of being, you know, longevity and, and I don't know if that looks like once or twice a year we did to last year maybe we can do to this year maybe next year we can do three or four.

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And maybe in the future we can do one once a month, you know, who knows. Yeah. And so you said in the beginning that you thought it was going to be, you know, not that hard and it seems like it pretty much evolved organically right or was there any big hurdles you had to overcome.

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There's always hurdles. I remember the first one I remember telling somebody, you know, I remember telling, telling Mikey, you know, I was like, you know, he showed up and I told him before I was like man, it's really not been that hard, like the first one sold out and like fast, you know, sold out pretty

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quickly and I remember thinking like, dang, this is pretty easy. Well then your main event didn't show up so then I was like okay, like, there's always something so I try not to be too cocky but you know now.

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I mean, you think that sorry to interrupt you how bad you think that hurt you because I feel like a lot of people tuned in to see what would happen with that.

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Would you have your email.

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No, I think it helped us because we got a lot of attention by having him on which was obviously the goal there.

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The only reason we had him on was to get attention. You know what I mean so we got the attention. And then when he didn't show it made the attention go even crazier. I do think if he would have showed up I think if he would have showed up the roof.

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If you were at that first one it was so loud because it was such a small room and it was sold out the roof would have blown off the place.

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So it I don't think it hurt at all. Honestly, we only had one guy you know us for a refund for his tickets because he came to see Pat downy but I mean if you just showed up just to see Pat. If you showed up if you're like buying a ticket to something only to see Pat downy.

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Come on, you know what it means so he found a loophole you know like he's like I know how to get my four bucks back.

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Yeah, so whatever. But no I think it I think it only helped us to be honest. It sucked because it was so much hype behind that match and and like I don't ever want anybody to feel like we do something.

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Like, it we were like, I had full intentions of him showing up. I mean, I don't want people to feel like I told him like, you know what I mean. I'll tell you this. I did tell when I started to feel like he might not come, but he was telling me he was coming I was like, Hey, like, maybe play it up like you're not coming and we'll like kind of play into

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that. But then eventually he quit texting me and I'm like hey I meant like to the public not me like I'm in on the joke man. And then eventually he didn't show up. Yeah, that's a pretty that's pretty he sold it because he didn't show up but yeah.

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So then we got we got street leagues three coming up.

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And then what's next for stillmates after that do you have any larger plans or just keep plugging along with the with the street league.

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I really feel like we're firing all cylinders right now we're really starting to figure out certain formats and stuff the next plan is to bring in more talent right I feel like our people don't really get enough and and in this day of content and remember you mentioned to me one time you know contents everything I think you tweeted

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that or told me or something.

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You know you're getting into this podcast and that's true and you know it's hard to compete with the flow and it's hard to compete with an ender mat and it's hard to compete with these people even though we do different things but as far as you know we're all competing for people's attention when it comes to

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to content right so if you only have one video a week or one piece a week and yeah we tweet things throughout the week and we do certain fun things and it's hard to really pinpoint this is just a podcast because we do so many different things.

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But we really want to bring another talent.

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We've never really announced it but Corby's going to be coming on and doing some stuff with us I really like.

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Nice.

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Yeah he's I really love him and he's going to be coming on and and you know we're going to try to still stick with our brand but I want anybody to be able to tune into stalemates and be like, you know because there's a lot of people that that don't tune into us because they only enjoy the X's and O's

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and so I want to I want them to be able to come to a stalemates and be like I can still get that X's and O's content. It's I don't care about what's going on on Twitter I don't care what's going on, you know, that kind of stuff I want any wrestling fan to be able to be a fan of

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stalemates. When we did one of our socials with Ryan Ward so funny because you know we team up in Iowa City and all the all the like serious coaches and athletes would go up to Ryan and be like, Ryan I love the show that and then cover me like hey I like

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you know where but then the opposite we're like the guy who's there drinking a beer and he's having fun and this and that he's coming up to me and I love the show man that he's going up to Ryan saying hey man I like the show you know so our audiences are so different we probably have more of the

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I call him like the Bleacher Seats guys and I want to be able to have everybody be a fan of stalemates so and I wanted to go beyond just me I don't you know I like being on camera and I like being the personality and the face and everything but you know I want somebody to come on the show and you know

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not argue with me but you know give a different perspective or or stuff like that and you know it's hard when it's just me and producer Tyler stalemates Tyler so you know the goal is to bring in more outside people more talent and you know I you know obviously we're very

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I will focus because we're in Iowa so I feel like we could do a better job of you know a better East Coast representation a better South the better West and you know I'm very picky about who we have around and who we want on camera and who we want to be able to build their

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their thing and and you know I trust someone like Corby and it's just trying to find more people like him and and you know people who want to work hard and and you know prove themselves.

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And so when you're looking for a wrestler to put on your card and you're like, I want somebody who's going to you know sell the crap out of this card are you looking for somebody who is like amazing technically or great college career or good persona like what are you looking

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for. I love that you asked me that question because we get I'm not kidding you I could show you the DMs that we get we get hundreds of DMs, not not like every time we do one but like, I could show you the message request that we get.

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I want people to know if they're watching that it's not always like how good you are like me not responding to your DM isn't because I don't think that you're worthy. We look at a few things right so like, if you're a big name and and we think that you can draw, we will try to find you a really good match up

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I think we did a really good job with Alex Maranelli versus Richie Lewis, Richie wanted a big name. Alex Maranelli lost to him last time that they wrestled, you know what I mean, and when he when he lost Richie went over to the brand's corner and did some sort of thing you know

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I'm sure I was gonna love that. Oh, trust me, trust me it's coming. It's coming. So that was that made sense right so we spent a lot of money there but it was made sense. Sometimes we get people were like hey, we're willing to have you but you know our budget's not there to fly you out.

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You know what I mean so if they're if that person's like that's fine I just want to do it just you know put me on find me a person you know I just want to do it. You're done deal right. Sometimes we get guys that are not big names they might have wrestled Division two three juco

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they might wrestle Division one whatever whatever right and they might ask for a lot if they asked for a lot. I don't, I'm not mad at them. I don't disagree with them. And, you know, I think if you wrestle and something like this you should get compensated and stuff but it's a business at the end of the day and

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not really if I don't see, you know, the return, we'd love to have you but you know we're not going to pay you. So we get a lot of guys in the state of Iowa that that don't give pay but they just want to do it right.

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So some of them. So some people are like hey, you know, I, you know, like one of our main events that won't say who they're like, they're flying in they're like hey, I'll bring a guy with me. And, you know, he can stay with me so you'll save money there if you'll put him on the car.

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And like that guy we can pay him an affordable rate without having to tack on the travel and this and that you know what I mean, but like some some guys like that they drive from far and and I appreciate that and so we'll you know we'll say hey you know maybe we can help you out find

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you somewhere to stay or maybe we can help you out doing this or that or you know what I mean so it really depends on the logistics of you know how big of a draw they are. Are they are they willing to sell it are they willing to you know, really go all in on this and if they are we'd love to have you.

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And we get we haven't got any criticism for having a lot of girls but the girl thing is hard because you know a lot of the girls that are active wrestlers are doing freestyle, we don't do freestyle if we did freestyle we'd have to hire.

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Yeah, so we'd have to hire more officials and and it would just be different, you know, so if we do a freestyle card someday and I think we will.

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We'd love to have you know a female main card, big marquee matchup but for right now we're folks out and if there's a girl out there listening and they want to do it.

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We would love to but I think every time that I've had a you know a big name female wrestler try to come on it's it's the folks out thing that always kind of was a damper on that.

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But we had we had Becca Roper and Billy sins and it was like, you know, we got made fun of for having that and I think that's one of the more entertaining things we've ever done in street.

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Yeah, that was a big draw for me to watch.

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Yeah, and it was two people who have never wrestled before. And, you know, board girl doesn't matter they went out there they both trained really hard I think that guy has called for here.

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You know the main stuff one time.

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Or what I guess one, I think she she posted a photo yeah I think something happened, you know, so like, and even seeing her afterwards being like, you know, still training and she really wanted to be on this next one it's unfortunate that she has, you know, hall of fame they quit thing to do but,

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you know, we're looking to have females on it's just, you know, it's got to be focused on right now.

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Is there you thinking about doing any other kind of like interesting matchups with like the whole first wrestling match everything.

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I think.

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Yes and no like that's that's the biggest challenge which treat league is like, I want it to be legitimate in terms of like I don't want to offend people with like sloppy wrestling, you know what I mean.

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So, I would like to do another first time wrestling, even though I just said I don't want sloppy wrestling but it is, I think having having two people have never wrestled before, go out there and do it.

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There's a lot of friends of mine that didn't wrestle that like would love that opportunity. So that's kind of selfish of me to be like hey, I want the opportunity to give you this this, or I want the opportunity to give you this opportunity.

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But I think those kind of things help really grow the sport. We really wanted to do a team cup. So this street league was actually going to be the stalemates cup, which was going to be four teams of four.

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A weight, a weight cap. So before teams of four your team can't weigh over 1000 pounds and then we would match you up with the appropriate person from the other team, the winning team gets five grand, right so then there could be like a team full of New Jersey guys that come out here, and you know they

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would have a team of four guys from Iowa, and then four guys from Florida, and maybe another team from Missouri, and the winner back it's the stalemates cup, where they're holding it up. And you know that it's like the Stanley Cup to them and they get to keep it.

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And next year we do this Stanley, you know we do the stalemates Cup to, and they have to defend, you know, and if they don't defend they have to mail it back, like I would love that.

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That might come that might come this fall.

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Okay, well, it's, we are helping.

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I believe we I think we're going to help with this some beat dressing event in my hometown so I was telling you it's a lake town, where I'm from. And so they're you know rack the lakes down there and there's a huge beach people drink and party and, and I think we're going to do a beat

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dressing event there so that's July so if you subscribe to the patreon for $3 at night sorry you subscribe to page out for $3.99 and July you're going to get a beat dressing event as well hopefully.

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Okay, I was just going to say it sounds like you're certainly not short on ideas and everyone's going to continue to see street league evolve and, and you know different things happen and it should be really entertaining.

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Yeah, I think when it comes.

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I think when it comes to street league it's so important to have good good matchups so I wanted to get that out there. Sorry, I get long winded when I get excited.

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No, that's okay. It's great to talk to passionate people about the things that they're passionate about. And you know I was just going to say I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me today and I hope everybody else enjoys listening to you as much as I did.

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Before we sign off I want you to tell everybody where where they can find you your socials your patreon.

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I'm at still made show on Twitter, I think on Instagram I think we even I think even our click talk is that still made show.

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And yeah, that's pretty much where you can find us June 24. Alex Marinelli verse Richie Lewis Kennedy Monday's coming back he's going to wrestle Jesse Del Vecchio New York guy, my legend I hear.

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I'm going to talk about Mikey England verse Quentin Perez and Grant leaf versus Colt McChrystal which is very exciting so you guys want a good night of wrestling entertainment. Check it out.

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Have you seen both of them will or just one.

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Oh, cool. So, yeah, it's a good time.

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Can't wait.

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Yeah, what's what's the match you're looking forward to.

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Oh, I love Mikey England.

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I mean when he came out with with the fireman's coat on and with the mustache and he was singing and dancing I was like who is this guy. I don't know who he is but he's my new favorite.

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Yeah, we had we had to get him back and he's going to have as tough as his toughest task yet.

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Quinn Perez and they had a similar they had a similar and dba career but obviously Quentin's lot younger and still pretty active so yeah.

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And then of course Richie in the bull too.

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What do you got?

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I think maybe the bull gets him back this time fueled by revenge.

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There you go.

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We'll have to see.

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All right, Zach, thanks.

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Yeah, thank you will.

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Thank you for listening to this episode of the Bronx attorney broadcast please like review and subscribe so we can help the channel continue to grow. And if you're interested in connecting with any of the guests, please let me know and I'd be happy to make the introduction.