WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.160 Welcome back to another episode of the Reseller's 00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:04.559 Mindset Podcast. My name is Mike, also known 00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:06.559 as the Used Book Guy on YouTube, along with my 00:00:06.559 --> 00:00:08.599 friend and fellow full -time reseller, Johnny 00:00:08.599 --> 00:00:11.150 B. We help people start and grow their reselling 00:00:11.150 --> 00:00:13.589 businesses from the ground up. We also have a 00:00:13.589 --> 00:00:15.570 weekly Zoom call and private Discord for all 00:00:15.570 --> 00:00:18.469 YouTube members. Head on over to youtube .com 00:00:18.469 --> 00:00:20.829 backslash usebookguy to join the channel and 00:00:20.829 --> 00:00:23.469 gain access to the full -length podcast, Zoom 00:00:23.469 --> 00:00:26.129 call, and private Discord today. Let's get into 00:00:26.129 --> 00:00:28.410 this week's episode. What is up, everybody? Welcome 00:00:28.410 --> 00:00:30.469 to another episode of Reseller's Mindset Podcast. 00:00:30.670 --> 00:00:33.850 Special guest today, three years in the making, 00:00:33.869 --> 00:00:36.549 basically. He had me on his podcast back in 2022, 00:00:36.969 --> 00:00:40.060 Caleb Roth. Most of you know who he is, but I'm 00:00:40.060 --> 00:00:42.159 going to allow him to introduce himself. We're 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:44.700 going to talk everything related to Amazon and 00:00:44.700 --> 00:00:47.579 building a profitable book business and actually 00:00:47.579 --> 00:00:50.659 understanding your numbers. This guy is an analytical 00:00:50.659 --> 00:00:53.299 mind that you got to hear what he's going to 00:00:53.299 --> 00:00:55.399 say today. I'm super excited for this. I have 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:56.840 kind of sort of been waiting for three years. 00:00:56.920 --> 00:00:59.060 I'm glad he's kind of back in the fray when it 00:00:59.060 --> 00:01:01.560 comes to doing different things related to books. 00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:04.060 So Caleb, thanks for coming in and yeah, introduce 00:01:04.060 --> 00:01:06.280 yourself and you know who you are, what you do. 00:01:06.939 --> 00:01:09.359 Yeah, Mike, thanks for having me. It's good to 00:01:09.359 --> 00:01:12.859 be back in the saddle when I sold Scout IQ. So 00:01:12.859 --> 00:01:16.219 I'm a bookseller. I'm an entrepreneur. And, you 00:01:16.219 --> 00:01:19.120 know, real quick, my definition of entrepreneur, 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:23.200 if I can push a little bit of philosophy on y 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:25.400 'all, an entrepreneur is someone who sees something 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:28.200 and does something about it. So I love people 00:01:28.200 --> 00:01:30.400 that take action, that have agency, that believe 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:32.560 that they can kind of move the ball forward and 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:35.109 make. quality decisions in their lives. I just 00:01:35.109 --> 00:01:37.290 so happen to apply that to the book space, and 00:01:37.290 --> 00:01:39.829 I've just met incredible people like Mike and 00:01:39.829 --> 00:01:41.790 many other people out there. We've had a lot 00:01:41.790 --> 00:01:44.849 of conferences. We've kind of shared some of 00:01:44.849 --> 00:01:47.150 the ups and the downs that come with any business. 00:01:47.670 --> 00:01:50.530 Seems like there's more downs lately, and it's 00:01:50.530 --> 00:01:52.269 kind of weeding out a little bit of the herd. 00:01:52.629 --> 00:01:55.049 I'm the artist formerly known as the book flipper. 00:01:55.170 --> 00:01:57.950 I had a community on facebook a little over 30 00:01:57.950 --> 00:02:01.650 000 people matthew osborne and david chung and 00:02:01.650 --> 00:02:05.189 cole and joseph and uh love neat we're all business 00:02:05.189 --> 00:02:08.590 partners some of you know matthew um and david 00:02:08.590 --> 00:02:10.270 of course they were very heavily in the space 00:02:10.270 --> 00:02:13.319 david still is Matthew is no more. He's working 00:02:13.319 --> 00:02:16.599 on other projects. But yeah, as Mike said, I'm 00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:18.699 very heavy on the analytical side. I think knowing 00:02:18.699 --> 00:02:21.259 your numbers, having a sense of an awareness 00:02:21.259 --> 00:02:24.080 of where you are in the business, and then ultimately 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:26.840 having clarity around where you want to go. And 00:02:26.840 --> 00:02:28.960 then it's just a matter of connecting those dots 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:31.419 from where you are to where you want to go. And 00:02:31.419 --> 00:02:33.659 I believe that business is a vehicle that can 00:02:33.659 --> 00:02:36.120 look like almost anything. Matthew and I used 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:38.699 to joke often that you can make money doing anything. 00:02:39.069 --> 00:02:40.750 And I really believe that. And then it's just 00:02:40.750 --> 00:02:42.750 a matter of trying to find something that is 00:02:42.750 --> 00:02:45.169 in alignment with who you are and how you want 00:02:45.169 --> 00:02:48.110 to show up in the world. So founder of Scout 00:02:48.110 --> 00:02:50.949 IQ, founder of eFlip, founder of Reprice IQ, 00:02:51.150 --> 00:02:53.849 and founder of Palette IQ. You can see the IQ 00:02:53.849 --> 00:02:56.610 theme. We bundled all of that up, sold it to 00:02:56.610 --> 00:03:00.229 three cults. at the end of 22 and they bundled 00:03:00.229 --> 00:03:02.389 it further and connected it with inventory lab 00:03:02.389 --> 00:03:04.289 and a bunch of other services and they've got 00:03:04.289 --> 00:03:06.830 their own bundle and they're still you know running 00:03:06.830 --> 00:03:10.250 in that space and serving amazon sellers so it's 00:03:10.250 --> 00:03:12.689 been three years i had a non -compete uh kind 00:03:12.689 --> 00:03:15.770 of took my foot off the gas i got married again 00:03:15.770 --> 00:03:19.289 picked up uh we have six kids between us So beautiful 00:03:19.289 --> 00:03:21.990 blended family and there's a little more to life 00:03:21.990 --> 00:03:23.969 than just trying to build business at this point. 00:03:24.009 --> 00:03:27.090 And I'm not mad about it. I thought I would stay 00:03:27.090 --> 00:03:30.210 away from books. But I don't know. Once a bookseller, 00:03:30.270 --> 00:03:33.129 always a bookseller. And so now I'm kind of dipping 00:03:33.129 --> 00:03:35.729 my toe back in the water. I've got a blog. I'm 00:03:35.729 --> 00:03:37.770 sure we'll talk about that. But I'm going to 00:03:37.770 --> 00:03:39.990 be sharing more data, trying to help those of 00:03:39.990 --> 00:03:41.650 you that are still in the game. There's about 00:03:41.650 --> 00:03:45.110 20 ,000 booksellers that have sold 150 to 200 00:03:45.110 --> 00:03:49.169 books last year. And so it's a reasonably sized 00:03:49.169 --> 00:03:50.909 crew. I don't know if that seemed high or low 00:03:50.909 --> 00:03:54.159 to you, Mike. That's who's out there. And if 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:56.139 you're watching this, you're one of the 20 ,000. 00:03:56.319 --> 00:03:58.699 And I'm really eager to try and find ways to 00:03:58.699 --> 00:04:01.259 serve each of you and help just build meaningful 00:04:01.259 --> 00:04:04.000 businesses. Yeah, it's funny you brought that 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.039 up. The blog will be linked down below in the 00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:07.840 comments and in the description to the podcast. 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:11.379 I thought it was way more than 20. 20k dude i 00:04:11.379 --> 00:04:13.800 see nothing like only 20 000 like that is like 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:16.180 a speck of a speck and like because it's even 00:04:16.180 --> 00:04:18.500 broken down by state and like pennsylvania had 00:04:18.500 --> 00:04:20.839 like i think under a thousand i'm like there 00:04:20.839 --> 00:04:23.439 really isn't that many people doing this but 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:25.879 like i still feel the opportunities there and 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:28.259 you you know just looking back you know three 00:04:28.259 --> 00:04:30.819 years of kind of stepping out i'm sure you were 00:04:30.819 --> 00:04:32.980 still like in the shadows like lurking and kind 00:04:32.980 --> 00:04:34.519 of seeing what the different things were going 00:04:34.519 --> 00:04:36.500 on because you know your friend david chung you 00:04:36.500 --> 00:04:39.240 got all these relationships over the years of 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:41.509 these mega booksellers or people that are just 00:04:41.509 --> 00:04:43.670 consistently the quiet ones in the background 00:04:43.670 --> 00:04:45.689 that you're not going to see out there that are 00:04:45.689 --> 00:04:47.730 absolutely crushing it but you just pop back 00:04:47.730 --> 00:04:49.730 up with this blog post and i'm like oh this is 00:04:49.730 --> 00:04:51.589 very interesting i'm like here we go down the 00:04:51.589 --> 00:04:54.329 analytical route and i'm straightforward when 00:04:54.329 --> 00:04:56.930 it comes to analytics like i just want my business 00:04:56.930 --> 00:04:59.939 to be profitable i don't kind of look any anywhere 00:04:59.939 --> 00:05:02.720 past that because I get carried away. I'm not 00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:04.879 the best with the spreadsheets and things like 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:06.620 that. I have a spreadsheet that works for me, 00:05:06.660 --> 00:05:10.439 but it's just next level analytics for you. But 00:05:10.439 --> 00:05:13.160 you also, when you were knee deep in the business, 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:15.480 you backed up your actual business with the analytics 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:17.839 to help you make better decisions. I think that's 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:20.079 the big disconnect we have today is people just 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:22.220 want to go scan and sell things, but they don't 00:05:22.220 --> 00:05:23.959 really understand how much money is coming into 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:26.339 their bank account or if they're even profitable 00:05:26.339 --> 00:05:30.319 on a monthly or even a yearly scale. Yeah. And 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:32.540 net profit is all that matters. We talk about 00:05:32.540 --> 00:05:35.060 vanity metrics and the orange bars on your Amazon 00:05:35.060 --> 00:05:37.399 seller app are great. And, you know, I've seen 00:05:37.399 --> 00:05:39.800 a lot of sellers that have crazy numbers, you 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:42.060 know, I'm talking, you know, five to $10 million 00:05:42.060 --> 00:05:44.899 booksellers. And then of course there's, there's, 00:05:44.899 --> 00:05:47.240 you know, people that do. you know way more than 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:49.180 that in terms of online arbitrage and wholesale 00:05:49.180 --> 00:05:51.759 and everything else but if you don't have great 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:53.680 margins if you don't have a lot of room for error 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:56.079 then you can have a 10 million dollar business 00:05:56.079 --> 00:05:58.199 that you know nets less than five percent and 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:01.019 it can be incredibly stressful versus a seller 00:06:01.019 --> 00:06:03.220 that does maybe a hundred grand but is running 00:06:03.220 --> 00:06:06.079 you know 30 margins they're going to be a lot 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:07.939 more happier about what they're trying to build. 00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:11.319 So yeah, analytics are very important. And I'm 00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:14.660 a big believer in what I call frameworks. A frame 00:06:14.660 --> 00:06:17.279 is how you see the world. It's an idea. It's, 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:20.279 hey, if I do consignment, maybe this works. But 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:22.300 the trick is you have to go test it. You have 00:06:22.300 --> 00:06:24.639 to put it into practice in the real world. So 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:27.420 it's not just ideas, it's execution. And a lot 00:06:27.420 --> 00:06:29.480 of entrepreneurs are really good with ideas and 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:31.639 they struggle to put things into practice. And 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:33.480 then there's another camp who just is really 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:35.839 good at doing things. but doesn't stop to be 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:37.920 reflective and maybe think about why they're 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:40.639 doing what they're doing. And a really good entrepreneur 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:43.139 is someone who's integrated and can do both. 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:46.019 And so the idea of frameworks is take these ideas. 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:48.339 You can find them from anybody you look up to. 00:06:48.439 --> 00:06:50.399 There's a lot of great influencers and people 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:52.660 that are sharing their actual business experience. 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:55.120 And so you find things that work for them, a 00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:57.300 frame that works for somebody else. And then 00:06:57.300 --> 00:06:59.199 it's up to you to figure out which ones to sort 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:02.199 of try and borrow and steal and put into your 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:04.699 practice, into your business. And ultimately, 00:07:04.779 --> 00:07:07.240 if it works for you, awesome. If it doesn't, 00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:09.100 you know, rinse and repeat and try something 00:07:09.100 --> 00:07:13.639 else. Yeah, I agree. And the big question everybody 00:07:13.639 --> 00:07:16.839 wants to know is probably. Since you've been 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:18.959 away, we've had issues with the buy box and it 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:21.000 kind of changed the whole algorithm of the buy 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:22.639 box. So I guess I'll just throw you on the spot 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:26.439 here. What are your thoughts? And I guess because 00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:28.579 nobody knows really what's going on. What is 00:07:28.579 --> 00:07:31.579 your conspiracy theory about why the buy box 00:07:31.579 --> 00:07:34.160 is the way it is today? And as much as it pains 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:35.779 me to ask this, because I've been talking about 00:07:35.779 --> 00:07:37.980 nothing but the buy box for the past three months, 00:07:38.100 --> 00:07:39.839 people are going to want to hear it from you 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:42.220 and what your thoughts and ideas are behind it 00:07:42.220 --> 00:07:45.300 moving forward. Yeah, jumping right in with the 00:07:45.300 --> 00:07:46.720 zingers. I love it. Let's go, dude. We won't 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:49.620 even make them wait till the end. Let me clarify 00:07:49.620 --> 00:07:52.379 first that, yes, I've been lurking. Yes, I've 00:07:52.379 --> 00:07:54.300 been talking to a lot of sellers. I've gone to 00:07:54.300 --> 00:07:56.379 Books and Beyond the last few years. I've been 00:07:56.379 --> 00:07:58.839 at Miami Seller Conference with Avery and Taylor. 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:01.360 And so I'm still pretty connected. And I still 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:03.480 get a lot of calls from people and just checking 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:05.459 in and seeing how things are going and what's 00:08:05.459 --> 00:08:07.819 going on in the book world. I still sell books. 00:08:07.939 --> 00:08:09.860 So I've got books left over from my warehouse. 00:08:10.100 --> 00:08:13.639 I take my kids out. We go to garage sales, especially 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:15.860 in the summer here in Indiana. It's super fun. 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:18.819 I don't have a very substantial business. My 00:08:18.819 --> 00:08:20.540 business at one point was over a million dollars 00:08:20.540 --> 00:08:23.379 a year, primarily a solo operation with me and 00:08:23.379 --> 00:08:26.240 my wife. And then we ramped that up with consignment 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:29.399 and a whole bunch of other methodologies. This 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:32.740 past year, 2025, I did just over 10 grand and 00:08:32.740 --> 00:08:35.179 I netted close to five grand. It was almost 50 00:08:35.179 --> 00:08:37.659 % margins, which is very healthy. I had a very 00:08:37.659 --> 00:08:40.460 high average selling price. And so I'm not an 00:08:40.460 --> 00:08:42.580 expert anymore. So I'm just going to start with 00:08:42.580 --> 00:08:45.850 that caveat. And I'm all merchant fulfilled at 00:08:45.850 --> 00:08:48.750 this point. So the buy box fiasco, if you want 00:08:48.750 --> 00:08:50.950 to call it that, here's what I know from talking 00:08:50.950 --> 00:08:53.809 to people. We can make some conjectures or conspiracies. 00:08:53.809 --> 00:08:56.789 Who doesn't love a good conspiracy? But the buy 00:08:56.789 --> 00:08:59.470 box blipped, I think, two or three times in 2025. 00:08:59.950 --> 00:09:02.830 The buy box changed kind of overnight. There 00:09:02.830 --> 00:09:05.470 was no mention of it. It didn't really even update 00:09:05.470 --> 00:09:08.889 in the API, so it was fairly confusing. And basically, 00:09:09.090 --> 00:09:12.230 it shifted. And the way the buy box used to work 00:09:12.230 --> 00:09:15.610 was it was the lowest prime seller with good 00:09:15.610 --> 00:09:18.889 seller metrics, quality feedback, good scores, 00:09:19.029 --> 00:09:20.429 et cetera. You had to kind of meet a certain 00:09:20.429 --> 00:09:23.669 quality threshold. But pretty much the buy box 00:09:23.669 --> 00:09:26.129 or when you go to the Amazon page and just click 00:09:26.129 --> 00:09:29.409 add to cart for used, which most of us sell used 00:09:29.409 --> 00:09:32.830 books, it would just add your offer. And so the 00:09:32.830 --> 00:09:36.110 game used to be sending everything to FBA or 00:09:36.110 --> 00:09:38.929 a lot of things to FBA. And Amazon would handle 00:09:38.929 --> 00:09:40.769 customer service. They'd strike out negative 00:09:40.769 --> 00:09:43.529 feedback if it was in any way related to the 00:09:43.529 --> 00:09:46.809 fulfillment experience. And they charge a little 00:09:46.809 --> 00:09:49.450 more for the experience. But your sales went 00:09:49.450 --> 00:09:52.490 up and the buy box. There's different metrics. 00:09:52.629 --> 00:09:55.730 Amazon doesn't share specifically, but it's estimated 00:09:55.730 --> 00:09:58.309 that as much as 70 to like 82 percent of the 00:09:58.309 --> 00:10:01.389 sales in media and books come through the buy 00:10:01.389 --> 00:10:04.289 box. So it's a big deal. And it was really common 00:10:04.289 --> 00:10:06.769 to have what we called the prime bump. And so 00:10:06.769 --> 00:10:08.570 a book could be selling for 10 bucks, merchant 00:10:08.570 --> 00:10:10.929 fulfilled. And it was very common to get, you 00:10:10.929 --> 00:10:12.509 know, sell that book through the buy box for 00:10:12.509 --> 00:10:14.970 anywhere from 12 to 15, sometimes 20 dollars. 00:10:15.149 --> 00:10:17.809 So getting a few dollars used to be what the 00:10:17.809 --> 00:10:21.110 prime bump was. So all the extra costs of. using 00:10:21.110 --> 00:10:23.389 the Fulfilled by Amazon program, we're sort of 00:10:23.389 --> 00:10:26.169 offset with this prime bump. Now, the fees have 00:10:26.169 --> 00:10:28.330 changed significantly. When I started back in 00:10:28.330 --> 00:10:31.230 like 2014, 2015, there weren't even long -term 00:10:31.230 --> 00:10:34.110 storage fees. Now those storage fees are substantial. 00:10:34.429 --> 00:10:36.289 And if you're sitting on a book, a long -tail 00:10:36.289 --> 00:10:38.490 book that sells a few copies a year, and yours 00:10:38.490 --> 00:10:40.389 sits there for a while, it's going to get pretty 00:10:40.389 --> 00:10:46.100 costly. And secondly, if you go in and sorry 00:10:46.100 --> 00:10:48.419 i got some notifications popping up uh distract 00:10:48.419 --> 00:10:51.899 my train of thought secondly on the buy box um 00:10:51.899 --> 00:10:55.240 man i completely lost that train of thought let's 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:57.620 uh let's read the condition matters now right 00:10:57.620 --> 00:10:59.720 so i used to be the everything good right because 00:10:59.720 --> 00:11:02.299 if it was good or above nothing mattered whether 00:11:02.299 --> 00:11:06.519 it was good very good like new that 100 is completely 00:11:06.519 --> 00:11:09.460 flipped upside down with the current new everything 00:11:09.460 --> 00:11:11.870 the condition matters like i There is actual 00:11:11.870 --> 00:11:15.769 listings where I go in and I look because I actually 00:11:15.769 --> 00:11:17.370 wanted to see like what's really going on. And 00:11:17.370 --> 00:11:20.809 I have listings where I am a used FBA copy. Good 00:11:20.809 --> 00:11:23.289 price, cheaper than the merchant copy, which 00:11:23.289 --> 00:11:26.190 is very good. And there will be two buy boxes 00:11:26.190 --> 00:11:28.549 on the page. But the merchants gets the big buy 00:11:28.549 --> 00:11:31.909 box up top, even though I'm prime and I'm cheaper. 00:11:31.990 --> 00:11:35.250 Mine is good. There's is very good. So they're 00:11:35.250 --> 00:11:37.769 definitely conditioned. One hundred percent matters 00:11:37.769 --> 00:11:39.669 now. And it never used to matter up until this 00:11:39.669 --> 00:11:43.230 change. Yeah. And that makes sense because what 00:11:43.230 --> 00:11:46.070 happens is Amazon used to make it very easy. 00:11:46.149 --> 00:11:48.870 And I remember my last train of thought. Removals 00:11:48.870 --> 00:11:50.490 and disposals used to be fairly inexpensive. 00:11:50.889 --> 00:11:52.669 You could dispose of a book when I started for 00:11:52.669 --> 00:11:56.250 15 cents, one five cents. And getting it shipped 00:11:56.250 --> 00:11:58.669 back to you only cost 50 cents. And now it's 00:11:58.669 --> 00:12:00.570 weight based. It's the same price whether you 00:12:00.570 --> 00:12:03.129 dispose of it, remove it. You can liquidate, 00:12:03.129 --> 00:12:06.399 but that doesn't often. yield you anything. But 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:09.460 it's somewhere in the $1 .50 to $2 range and 00:12:09.460 --> 00:12:11.620 higher depending on the weight of the book. And 00:12:11.620 --> 00:12:14.299 so the round trip for a book that's a dud is 00:12:14.299 --> 00:12:17.360 way more expensive than it used to be. So couple 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:19.919 that with the buy box used to sort of offset 00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:23.220 those extra fees. And now exactly to your point, 00:12:23.340 --> 00:12:25.500 fulfillment method doesn't seem to matter whether 00:12:25.500 --> 00:12:27.820 you ship it from Amazon's warehouse or your garage. 00:12:28.059 --> 00:12:30.799 It's price that mostly matters. And a lot of 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:33.259 this is probably due to what's going on in the 00:12:33.259 --> 00:12:36.879 EU, European Union. They're way more careful. 00:12:36.980 --> 00:12:38.740 I think there's been several lawsuits over there 00:12:38.740 --> 00:12:42.059 in terms of Amazon favoring higher prices. So 00:12:42.059 --> 00:12:45.429 the consumer expects low prices. And when they 00:12:45.429 --> 00:12:47.549 go in, sure, if they want to go in and click 00:12:47.549 --> 00:12:49.269 through the offers and pick a prime price because 00:12:49.269 --> 00:12:51.169 they want it quicker, they want to get free shipping, 00:12:51.330 --> 00:12:54.750 that's fine. But most of the time, that was a 00:12:54.750 --> 00:12:56.850 higher price and people got rightfully pissed 00:12:56.850 --> 00:12:59.879 off. And there was lawsuits. And the buy box 00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:02.840 has been very different in the EU for quite a 00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:04.539 while, probably since we started selling back 00:13:04.539 --> 00:13:06.879 about 10 years ago. And it's just a matter of 00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:10.220 time before that caught up in the US. So the 00:13:10.220 --> 00:13:12.919 way the buy box seems to work now, it glitched, 00:13:12.919 --> 00:13:15.460 blipped a few times, seems like Amazon was testing 00:13:15.460 --> 00:13:18.159 it out in 2025. And then I believe it was late 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:21.039 October when the changes sort of stuck. And I'm 00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:23.629 guessing they're here to... to stay. And so exactly 00:13:23.629 --> 00:13:26.409 to your point, it really favors the lowest price 00:13:26.409 --> 00:13:29.629 and condition does matter. Acceptable books almost 00:13:29.629 --> 00:13:32.330 never win the buy box unless only acceptable 00:13:32.330 --> 00:13:34.889 offers are available. So good is always going 00:13:34.889 --> 00:13:37.389 to be featured. And that makes sense. If sellers, 00:13:37.509 --> 00:13:39.470 you know, three quarters of the time are clicking 00:13:39.470 --> 00:13:41.269 add to cart and it's just the cheapest price. 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:44.519 Usually the cheapest price is an acceptable copy. 00:13:44.860 --> 00:13:47.600 It may even say like former library book. Maybe 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:49.100 there's slight water damage, which you're not 00:13:49.100 --> 00:13:51.639 really supposed to sell anyway. But return rates 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:54.899 have gone up because seller or buyers are not 00:13:54.899 --> 00:13:56.899 as sophisticated. They're not looking at the 00:13:56.899 --> 00:13:58.399 description notes. They're just adding it to 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:00.559 cart and they assume it's going to be a quality 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:02.700 book. And if it's beat up, they get frustrated 00:14:02.700 --> 00:14:05.700 and return it. So Amazon sees all these metrics 00:14:05.700 --> 00:14:08.620 at a macro scale and probably said, we've got 00:14:08.620 --> 00:14:11.539 to make customers more satisfied. And so good 00:14:11.539 --> 00:14:14.600 almost always wins over acceptable. And to your 00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:17.580 point, very good. We'll do some more analytics. 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:20.019 I don't have exact numbers, but talking to people 00:14:20.019 --> 00:14:21.840 that I trust that have looked at it, at least 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:24.399 spot checked it. It seems like very good offers 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:27.659 if they're within 9%. So if you've got a book 00:14:27.659 --> 00:14:30.460 for 10 bucks. uh good you could theoretically 00:14:30.460 --> 00:14:33.379 list yours around 10 .90 so you could still get 00:14:33.379 --> 00:14:36.309 a small condition bump not necessarily because 00:14:36.309 --> 00:14:38.669 you're prime. But if you do have very good books, 00:14:38.789 --> 00:14:41.429 you do get featured a little more heavily, again, 00:14:41.529 --> 00:14:43.769 because Amazon cares about a satisfied customer 00:14:43.769 --> 00:14:46.830 at the end of the day. So we'll do more in -depth 00:14:46.830 --> 00:14:48.990 analytics. We're setting up a new data pipeline, 00:14:49.389 --> 00:14:52.269 getting ready. Keepa's got amazing data. And 00:14:52.269 --> 00:14:53.929 so we're going to start sharing more of that 00:14:53.929 --> 00:14:57.269 data and kind of help you then, you know, one, 00:14:57.289 --> 00:14:59.350 with sourcing decisions. Two, that's going to 00:14:59.350 --> 00:15:02.929 be really useful when it comes to selling and 00:15:02.929 --> 00:15:05.840 repricing decisions. I'll tell you what I used 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:08.659 to sell this past year when a buy box used to 00:15:08.659 --> 00:15:11.139 be the old buy box. I probably sold close to 00:15:11.139 --> 00:15:13.460 a thousand items where there was no FBA offers 00:15:13.460 --> 00:15:16.279 and the merchants were supposed to say $8 and 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:18.960 under. I would sell those items all day long 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:22.509 at $17 .99. All day long. Right. So we're talking 00:15:22.509 --> 00:15:25.950 a big like most cases, more than ten dollar price 00:15:25.950 --> 00:15:28.470 difference just because I was the prime offer. 00:15:28.629 --> 00:15:31.909 That business model is 100 percent toast. Right. 00:15:31.950 --> 00:15:33.509 So when I'm outsourcing now, I basically had 00:15:33.509 --> 00:15:35.710 to say, hey, I got to leave this stuff behind 00:15:35.710 --> 00:15:38.649 now unless I can compete with the merchant offers 00:15:38.649 --> 00:15:40.750 that are currently on the listing. So it's kind 00:15:40.750 --> 00:15:43.070 of been a big change. And I think. I think it 00:15:43.070 --> 00:15:44.570 gets confused with people that are like, well, 00:15:44.629 --> 00:15:46.429 your whole business relied on the prime bump. 00:15:46.570 --> 00:15:48.549 I understand that argument, but that's the way 00:15:48.549 --> 00:15:50.769 it was forever, right? So like, why would we 00:15:50.769 --> 00:15:52.610 not take advantage of something that existed? 00:15:52.649 --> 00:15:54.730 Now that it's changed, does it suck for us? Yes, 00:15:54.750 --> 00:15:57.370 everything we have sitting there, all my 1799 00:15:57.370 --> 00:16:00.250 stuff, most likely isn't going to sell at 1799, 00:16:00.409 --> 00:16:02.090 but that's the way things were. So of course 00:16:02.090 --> 00:16:03.909 we were going to source and I probably made thousands 00:16:03.909 --> 00:16:06.830 of dollars off of that. I think there's always 00:16:06.830 --> 00:16:08.789 something on Amazon. You know, even when you 00:16:08.789 --> 00:16:10.870 were back knee deep in it, like every year there 00:16:10.870 --> 00:16:12.909 was always something, right? We had the restock 00:16:12.909 --> 00:16:15.149 limits. We had, they were raising the fees back 00:16:15.149 --> 00:16:17.049 then. It might not have been a lot, but 15 to 00:16:17.049 --> 00:16:19.710 50 cents. They were doing like, I remember you 00:16:19.710 --> 00:16:21.710 had this one software. Cause I remember I utilized 00:16:21.710 --> 00:16:23.590 this shit out of it. It was like, you could. 00:16:23.929 --> 00:16:26.509 you could create a removal order and Amazon would 00:16:26.509 --> 00:16:28.049 have like this free window where you could do 00:16:28.049 --> 00:16:29.909 free removals. And you had something that could 00:16:29.909 --> 00:16:32.129 like analyze your inventory and like you upload 00:16:32.129 --> 00:16:35.470 the file. I remember I removed like 1500 units 00:16:35.470 --> 00:16:37.870 to get underneath the restock limits and it didn't 00:16:37.870 --> 00:16:40.190 cost me a penny. Like today that would cost me 00:16:40.190 --> 00:16:44.679 like $5 ,000 to do that. Well, and because Amazon 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:47.240 always had to offer that, I think otherwise there 00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:49.740 would probably be lawsuits. Because if you sent 00:16:49.740 --> 00:16:52.120 inventory in with the expectation that removals 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:54.559 were free or very inexpensive, you know, 15 cents, 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:56.500 and all of a sudden they change it and say it's 00:16:56.500 --> 00:16:59.120 $2. that's a different agreement than what you 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:00.899 signed up for. And sure, it's their sandbox, 00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:03.399 but they also are afraid of lawyers and everything 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:06.440 else and class action type stuff. So Amazon, 00:17:06.859 --> 00:17:09.420 to their credit, would often give you that flexibility 00:17:09.420 --> 00:17:11.839 and that ability to jump in. And again, using 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:13.660 data, we'd kind of go through and find your old 00:17:13.660 --> 00:17:16.160 stuff, long tail that the price had tanked or 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:18.420 it was unlikely to sell and say, hey, let's free 00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:20.740 up space and take advantage of this before 1 00:17:20.740 --> 00:17:23.220 ,500 books could cost you $3 ,000 to remove. 00:17:23.539 --> 00:17:26.799 And 3 ,000 bucks is not nothing. That's substantial. 00:17:27.579 --> 00:17:31.099 Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Just every year, you 00:17:31.099 --> 00:17:33.180 know, we got rid of the restock limits. And I'll 00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:35.299 say this, there's new inventory systems way better 00:17:35.299 --> 00:17:37.319 than the restock limits. It was basically a unit 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:39.799 based thing. You can only have 1000 units. Now 00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:41.859 it's based on your actual cubic feet that you 00:17:41.859 --> 00:17:44.579 use. And you easily can bid for more storage 00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:46.500 and you can get credits towards that storage. 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:48.380 So it doesn't even wind up costing you anything. 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:50.880 They 100 % improved on that. But I think the 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:54.259 big problem is like. What is the path going forward 00:17:54.259 --> 00:17:56.539 for your average bookseller? I will say this, 00:17:56.539 --> 00:17:59.140 this new buy box thing, the way it works is great 00:17:59.140 --> 00:18:02.160 for new sellers because prior you had to earn 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:05.079 the buy box and there was no set rules or definition. 00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:08.289 And I've had people in my group take. It's taken 00:18:08.289 --> 00:18:10.690 somebody 18 months to become buy box eligible 00:18:10.690 --> 00:18:13.009 in the used book category, which is absolutely 00:18:13.009 --> 00:18:15.730 insane, right? There's no, you've got to earn 00:18:15.730 --> 00:18:17.690 it. And then you can be in this buy box we're 00:18:17.690 --> 00:18:20.509 talking about. But now that it favors merchants, 00:18:20.890 --> 00:18:23.650 I'm seeing a lot of newer people, if they have 00:18:23.650 --> 00:18:25.670 the lowest price in a good condition, whether 00:18:25.670 --> 00:18:28.109 they're FBA or merchant fulfilling, they're not 00:18:28.109 --> 00:18:30.109 buy box eligible. They're getting more sales 00:18:30.109 --> 00:18:32.130 as new sellers because now they actually can 00:18:32.130 --> 00:18:34.609 participate. And I guess the rodeo to try to 00:18:34.609 --> 00:18:36.529 be the main person on that page when somebody 00:18:36.529 --> 00:18:40.359 goes to it. Yeah, and it's worth noting, it looks 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:42.539 like there's two different buy boxes. One would 00:18:42.539 --> 00:18:44.880 be for prime buyers, which is almost everybody. 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:46.920 Most people have a prime subscription. It's something 00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:50.180 like 260 million prime subscriptions out there. 00:18:50.259 --> 00:18:53.420 So it's a lot. But if you don't have a prime 00:18:53.420 --> 00:18:55.400 subscription, you're going to potentially see 00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:57.299 a different buy box. Again, we'll analyze that 00:18:57.299 --> 00:18:59.279 and kind of get into the weeds later. But it's 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:02.240 worth noting that there probably are two. buy 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:04.200 boxes. So depending on who you're trying to serve, 00:19:04.380 --> 00:19:06.920 again, most people are prime. Most people will 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:09.400 buy through the buy box. And so if you can sort 00:19:09.400 --> 00:19:12.480 of target that, that's the goal. Again, Amazon's 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:15.579 favoring price, quality sellers and condition. 00:19:15.740 --> 00:19:17.740 And that makes sense, right? You want to have 00:19:17.740 --> 00:19:20.740 a happy marketplace. And now if the buy box, 00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:23.240 if people aren't spending $17 .99 to buy a book 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:26.180 from Mike. and they're buying it for $9 now, 00:19:26.380 --> 00:19:30.619 the laws of supply and demand and price elasticity 00:19:30.619 --> 00:19:33.279 and everything say if price goes down, volume 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:36.400 should go up. So the volume of sales may go up, 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:38.119 and people say, well, it's just favoring the 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:40.119 mega sellers and the better world books and the 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:42.839 thrift books and the world of books. And yes, 00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:45.240 they can compete at a different scale, especially 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:47.180 because most of them have discounted shipping 00:19:47.180 --> 00:19:50.119 rates through bound printed matter. They're saving 00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:52.619 anywhere from $1 to $1 .50 a book compared to 00:19:52.619 --> 00:19:55.430 what... smaller players are doing. So they have 00:19:55.430 --> 00:19:59.269 economies of scale that we don't. But it is pretty 00:19:59.269 --> 00:20:01.029 much equal footy. They're not getting featured 00:20:01.029 --> 00:20:03.470 and having a huge benefit. They can drop the 00:20:03.470 --> 00:20:07.450 price for sure. But as newer sellers or if you're 00:20:07.450 --> 00:20:09.809 playing the game now. It does sort of simplify 00:20:09.809 --> 00:20:11.829 it because before you sort of had to read between 00:20:11.829 --> 00:20:13.690 the lines and look at the lowest used price, 00:20:13.930 --> 00:20:16.069 look at the buy box, see if you thought it might 00:20:16.069 --> 00:20:18.650 happen, see if the e -score and the sales velocity 00:20:18.650 --> 00:20:21.049 was high enough to support a large prime bump. 00:20:21.250 --> 00:20:23.529 And so there was this kind of internal calculus 00:20:23.529 --> 00:20:26.130 or algebra that you were doing. And now I think 00:20:26.130 --> 00:20:28.049 it's going to be streamlined. It's very simple. 00:20:28.170 --> 00:20:30.430 Just the used buy box is really the price you 00:20:30.430 --> 00:20:33.390 have to target. And if there's five acceptable 00:20:33.390 --> 00:20:35.569 offers at eight bucks and the lowest good offers 00:20:35.569 --> 00:20:38.559 at 12. you're good until that gap gets closed 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:41.400 so there still could be that condition bump but 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:44.140 the prime bump is is mostly gone so that means 00:20:44.140 --> 00:20:46.259 you're going to be sourcing fewer books But it 00:20:46.259 --> 00:20:47.740 also means you're going to be sourcing better 00:20:47.740 --> 00:20:50.519 books. And for the vast majority of sellers, 00:20:50.660 --> 00:20:53.380 especially if you're a small player, only selling 00:20:53.380 --> 00:20:55.900 less than probably let's call it half a million 00:20:55.900 --> 00:20:57.940 bucks a year, you're going to be better suited 00:20:57.940 --> 00:21:00.559 by being a little more intelligent, being smarter, 00:21:00.740 --> 00:21:03.119 and sourcing fewer books and just trying to bump 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:05.180 your average selling price higher. Because you're 00:21:05.180 --> 00:21:07.259 going to work less hard and make almost the same 00:21:07.259 --> 00:21:09.740 amount of money thanks to the 80 -20 rule. So 00:21:09.740 --> 00:21:12.650 yes, it stinks. It does kind of... taper the 00:21:12.650 --> 00:21:15.089 ceiling that you could have achieved using FBA. 00:21:15.450 --> 00:21:17.769 But I think it's going to push more sellers to 00:21:17.769 --> 00:21:19.690 be merchant fulfilled. I've been merchant fulfilled. 00:21:20.250 --> 00:21:22.390 I added merchant fulfilled during COVID with 00:21:22.390 --> 00:21:25.029 some of the restrictions and never looked back. 00:21:25.150 --> 00:21:27.049 And my business has been 100 % merchant fulfilled 00:21:27.049 --> 00:21:29.109 for the last three years. And again, it's a very 00:21:29.109 --> 00:21:31.869 small operation. I maybe have five or 600 books 00:21:31.869 --> 00:21:35.390 listed at any given time. But it's really easy. 00:21:35.549 --> 00:21:38.789 I sell a handful a week. It takes me no time 00:21:38.789 --> 00:21:40.769 at all to find the book on the shelf, throw it 00:21:40.769 --> 00:21:42.710 in an envelope, drop it in my mailbox. I don't 00:21:42.710 --> 00:21:44.990 even have to run to the post office. Technically, 00:21:45.109 --> 00:21:46.849 we're supposed to since it's media mail, but 00:21:46.849 --> 00:21:49.210 we have a big mailbox. We have a country route 00:21:49.210 --> 00:21:52.170 out here, and our mailwoman is awesome. And so 00:21:52.170 --> 00:21:54.230 she takes everything. I've asked her about it. 00:21:54.390 --> 00:21:56.490 I don't make trips to the post office. I walk 00:21:56.490 --> 00:21:58.750 to the end of my driveway, and that's it. So 00:21:58.750 --> 00:22:02.390 the game is simpler. Um, yes, it stinks because, 00:22:02.450 --> 00:22:05.309 um, you know, you're not getting all the benefits 00:22:05.309 --> 00:22:07.369 in that prime bump and you're not kind of having 00:22:07.369 --> 00:22:09.869 your elite class if you're a prime seller, but 00:22:09.869 --> 00:22:12.490 it'll be interesting to monitor. Um, and we can 00:22:12.490 --> 00:22:14.210 jump into the blog post if you want, or I don't 00:22:14.210 --> 00:22:15.369 know if you want to take it. Yeah, we can now 00:22:15.369 --> 00:22:17.569 go, go for it. Take, take, hit me with some of 00:22:17.569 --> 00:22:19.670 your big takeaways when you were making that 00:22:19.670 --> 00:22:21.289 blog post. Cause for me, the big one with that, 00:22:21.349 --> 00:22:23.690 there's nowhere near as many sellers. I thought 00:22:23.690 --> 00:22:25.509 about this. I went to this one library sale last 00:22:25.509 --> 00:22:28.529 year here in central Pennsylvania and I got there. 00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:29.819 I was like, all right, I'm going to get there 00:22:29.819 --> 00:22:31.440 like 45 minutes early. Usually I'm only like 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:33.500 a 15 minute early type guy. You know, I don't 00:22:33.500 --> 00:22:35.279 got to be first in line here. I don't get that 00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:38.559 crazy. I get there, you know, I pull in the whole 00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:41.920 parking lot's full, dude. I'm like 350th in line. 00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:43.720 Like I can't even see the door of the place. 00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:46.660 And the blog post says there's like, you know. 00:22:47.069 --> 00:22:49.490 There's a thousand booksellers in Pennsylvania. 00:22:49.690 --> 00:22:51.690 Now I'm thinking to myself, like, damn, how many 00:22:51.690 --> 00:22:54.109 of the thousand booksellers in Pennsylvania were 00:22:54.109 --> 00:22:56.410 at this actual book? So there might have been 00:22:56.410 --> 00:22:59.450 all of us there. And I still did really good, 00:22:59.450 --> 00:23:01.690 though. But yeah, jump into some of these these 00:23:01.690 --> 00:23:03.930 blog points that you kind of discovered and maybe 00:23:03.930 --> 00:23:05.710 something that surprised you when you actually 00:23:05.710 --> 00:23:08.839 started diving into some of these numbers. First, 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:11.339 I'll introduce the title. It's called Upstream 00:23:11.339 --> 00:23:14.000 Pursuits. I really wanted upstream ventures, 00:23:14.019 --> 00:23:16.779 but a lot of the upstream slash blank, you fill 00:23:16.779 --> 00:23:18.700 in the blank, was already taken in terms of domains. 00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:21.819 Upstream Pursuits it is. The reason I call it 00:23:21.819 --> 00:23:24.599 upstream is two reasons. One, we're trying to 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:28.380 fix the source, not the symptom. Imagine a factory 00:23:28.380 --> 00:23:31.359 that's polluting water. You live on the river. 00:23:31.619 --> 00:23:33.880 You don't have access to the clean drinking water. 00:23:34.180 --> 00:23:36.319 You're pulling what typically was healthy, clean 00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:39.799 water and using it. to cook and drink and bathe 00:23:39.799 --> 00:23:42.000 and whatever else. If you're a half mile downstream 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:44.319 of that factory with pollution, you now have 00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:46.779 to boil the water every single day in order to 00:23:46.779 --> 00:23:48.660 use it. That's extra work, it's effort, it's 00:23:48.660 --> 00:23:51.400 energy. Or so you can do that every single day 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:53.539 for the rest of your life. Or you could sort 00:23:53.539 --> 00:23:56.539 of meander upstream, find the factory, call the 00:23:56.539 --> 00:23:58.859 EPA, knock on the door, destroy it, whatever 00:23:58.859 --> 00:24:01.900 you want to do. But if you fix the problem and 00:24:01.900 --> 00:24:04.420 you find the source of things. You're going to 00:24:04.420 --> 00:24:06.579 just have so many more benefits downstream. And 00:24:06.579 --> 00:24:08.319 now you don't have to boil the water every single 00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:10.359 day. It's way healthier. It's way more efficient. 00:24:10.779 --> 00:24:14.019 Many of us in business just get stuck doing tedious, 00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:17.059 repetitive, boring tasks every day. And it feels 00:24:17.059 --> 00:24:19.279 great. It feels like we're working. It feels 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:21.779 like we're accomplishing things. But if you zoom 00:24:21.779 --> 00:24:23.940 out and sort of reflect and look at what you're 00:24:23.940 --> 00:24:27.160 doing. Often there's some sort of leverage upstream 00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.059 that if you go fix and spend time working in 00:24:30.059 --> 00:24:32.240 the business, sorry, on the business, not in 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:34.319 it, then there's things you can fix and sort 00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:37.160 of save yourself half hour a day for the rest 00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:39.859 of your life. AI is going to help with a lot 00:24:39.859 --> 00:24:42.440 of that. And just being curious and creative 00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:44.420 and trying to find things to do a little bit 00:24:44.420 --> 00:24:46.440 differently are going to help you. So that's 00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:49.000 reason number one is going to the source, not 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:50.779 just dealing with the symptoms over and over. 00:24:51.469 --> 00:24:54.309 Part two of it is how do you go against the current? 00:24:54.809 --> 00:24:57.490 Anybody with a smartphone and a sourcing subscription, 00:24:57.890 --> 00:25:00.910 you know, scouting app is your competition. Books, 00:25:01.089 --> 00:25:03.049 they are a little more gated than they used to 00:25:03.049 --> 00:25:04.750 be. It used to be like you could just sell any 00:25:04.750 --> 00:25:07.730 book, but it's still a pretty easy category to 00:25:07.730 --> 00:25:09.430 start in. Again, everything's getting a little 00:25:09.430 --> 00:25:11.690 harder, a little more difficult, which does weed 00:25:11.690 --> 00:25:14.250 out some competition. But if your primary business 00:25:14.250 --> 00:25:17.230 is go to thrift stores, scan all the books, sell 00:25:17.230 --> 00:25:19.890 them on Amazon, anybody with a smartphone is 00:25:19.890 --> 00:25:22.839 your competition. So you are very crowded. And 00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:25.920 depending on where you are, you might have a 00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:29.839 fairly blue ocean. That's kind of a term. But 00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:32.079 you may be able to just kind of build a business 00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:34.960 that works. But as soon as more competition enters 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:36.880 the market, you're going to be splitting those 00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:39.059 books with two, three, five, ten other sellers. 00:25:39.380 --> 00:25:42.000 So the idea of going upstream is how do you be 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:44.740 strategic? How do you paddle against the current 00:25:44.740 --> 00:25:47.799 and go find some more sustainable models? In 00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:49.900 my business, that looked like offering consignment. 00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:52.920 It looked like backroom access, building relationships 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:55.779 so you could get access to the books before everybody 00:25:55.779 --> 00:25:58.359 else, all the other thousand sellers and PA came 00:25:58.359 --> 00:26:01.420 to the sale. It's just trying to be more strategic 00:26:01.420 --> 00:26:04.359 in what you're doing. So again, fixing the source, 00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:06.619 not the symptoms, and then going against the 00:26:06.619 --> 00:26:09.599 current is sort of what we're after. So it's, 00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:11.960 you know, I love entrepreneurs. I love people 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:13.980 that want to better their lives. But I really 00:26:13.980 --> 00:26:16.539 love people that say, hey, I'm in the game. It's 00:26:16.539 --> 00:26:19.559 working. I've kind of put my time in and I figured 00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:22.059 out things that don't work. I'm ready to be strategic. 00:26:22.180 --> 00:26:24.180 I'm ready to build something more sustainable, 00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:26.779 more meaningful. And that's that's really kind 00:26:26.779 --> 00:26:29.339 of the heart and the ethos behind the title. 00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:33.019 So post number one, we went through and I say 00:26:33.019 --> 00:26:35.500 we I'm so used to saying we with business partners. 00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:38.059 And unfortunately, I couldn't coax anybody back 00:26:38.059 --> 00:26:40.480 in. So when I say we now, I mean, me and Claude. 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:44.559 Claude is Anthropics LLM, kind of like ChatGPT. 00:26:46.140 --> 00:26:48.000 It's amazing. We've been able to build a lot 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:50.720 of scripts. It's a great thought partner. And 00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.319 what we've done is we went through about 75 ,000 00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:55.619 book listings on Amazon and pulled every single 00:26:55.619 --> 00:26:58.680 seller that's on those listings. And it told 00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:01.099 me we have a 99 % chance of capturing anybody 00:27:01.099 --> 00:27:04.259 with an inventory greater than 185 units. So 00:27:04.259 --> 00:27:06.960 almost every seller should be in this report. 00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:10.220 And we pulled about I think it was like 27 ,000 00:27:10.220 --> 00:27:12.160 unique seller IDs that are on all those book 00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:14.339 listings and then ran them back through Keep 00:27:14.339 --> 00:27:16.839 as Analyzer. And we're able to figure out who 00:27:16.839 --> 00:27:20.099 is selling books as a primary category and sort 00:27:20.099 --> 00:27:22.819 of distill it down from there. When we look at 00:27:22.819 --> 00:27:25.319 active booksellers, meaning you've got a feedback 00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:28.880 rating in the last year of at least one. And 00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:31.359 typically, this gets a little nerdy, but the 00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:35.259 ratio of feedback to orders is about 150 orders 00:27:35.259 --> 00:27:38.779 to generate one feedback. Mike, we ran your numbers 00:27:38.779 --> 00:27:40.819 before we started recording. I think you're on 00:27:40.819 --> 00:27:43.980 the better end of that, closer to like 82. And 00:27:43.980 --> 00:27:47.740 so basically, mega sellers especially don't get 00:27:47.740 --> 00:27:50.000 as much feedback. Smaller sellers do. I think 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:52.920 my average was closer to 50 to one. But on average, 00:27:53.180 --> 00:27:55.259 I've talked to a lot of sellers, about 150 to 00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:58.700 one. So we can get an idea of the volume of sellers. 00:27:58.900 --> 00:28:01.599 And so in order to sell or to get one feedback 00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:04.119 last year, you had to have sold around, let's 00:28:04.119 --> 00:28:07.579 call it 150 units. And there was just a sketch 00:28:07.579 --> 00:28:10.779 under 20 ,000 active booksellers on Amazon that 00:28:10.779 --> 00:28:13.140 met that criteria. I'm with you. That kind of 00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:15.259 stood out to me that that was a little smaller 00:28:15.259 --> 00:28:17.700 than maybe I thought. I know when we sold Scout 00:28:17.700 --> 00:28:20.000 IQ, I know the number of customers we had. And 00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:22.470 if that was the market three years ago, ago uh 00:28:22.470 --> 00:28:24.589 we had way more of the market than i expected 00:28:24.589 --> 00:28:27.509 um and i'm guessing it has tailed off significantly 00:28:27.509 --> 00:28:30.230 especially with the changes on amazon so about 00:28:30.230 --> 00:28:34.069 20 000 out there 40 of the sellers do use fba 00:28:34.069 --> 00:28:36.509 in some capacity that was a little higher than 00:28:36.509 --> 00:28:39.930 i thought Once you get north of a few thousand 00:28:39.930 --> 00:28:42.769 units in inventory, that number dropped significantly 00:28:42.769 --> 00:28:46.150 down to about 13%. And even among the super mega 00:28:46.150 --> 00:28:48.869 sellers, you know, sellers with over 50 ,000 00:28:48.869 --> 00:28:51.569 to 100 ,000 units in inventory, it still holds 00:28:51.569 --> 00:28:55.819 steady about one in eight, 13%. still use FBA, 00:28:55.980 --> 00:28:58.400 at least in some capacity. So it'll be really 00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:00.660 interesting. We're going to redo this analysis. 00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:02.880 We'll see how many new sellers are entering the 00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:04.900 market. We're going to do this quarterly. So 00:29:04.900 --> 00:29:07.680 the first report we shared, if you go to upstreampursuits 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:10.599 .com, you can check out the first report there. 00:29:11.460 --> 00:29:14.230 Of course. i'd say like and subscribe you can't 00:29:14.230 --> 00:29:16.130 really do that but do sign up for the email list 00:29:16.130 --> 00:29:19.269 um really i want to build that community again 00:29:19.269 --> 00:29:22.029 and sort of listen to what are the struggles 00:29:22.029 --> 00:29:24.549 what are the pain points what are the the challenges 00:29:24.549 --> 00:29:26.769 i'm going to be doing a little more consulting 00:29:26.769 --> 00:29:29.849 i'm not going to be selling as much And I'm not 00:29:29.849 --> 00:29:31.710 going to probably be doing a lot of software 00:29:31.710 --> 00:29:33.930 necessarily. I'll probably more advise and consult. 00:29:34.289 --> 00:29:36.569 And so if you are stuck in your business, if 00:29:36.569 --> 00:29:38.769 you could use an analytical minds, please reach 00:29:38.769 --> 00:29:41.190 out. You can hit me up on the website there or 00:29:41.190 --> 00:29:45.250 just Caleb at UpstreamPursuits .com. I'll pull 00:29:45.250 --> 00:29:47.069 the post. Mike, did you have any other questions? 00:29:47.109 --> 00:29:49.470 I'm curious what stood out to you from that first 00:29:49.470 --> 00:29:53.730 post. I think the 2080 rule, dude, I don't think 00:29:53.730 --> 00:29:55.829 people even know what you're talking about when 00:29:55.829 --> 00:29:58.289 you talk about the 2080 rule. So hit everybody 00:29:58.289 --> 00:30:00.490 with it because it's so important. And I never 00:30:00.490 --> 00:30:02.150 even heard of it until you brought it up years 00:30:02.150 --> 00:30:04.690 ago. And I'm just like, it's actually true. Like 00:30:04.690 --> 00:30:06.250 if you actually look at your numbers, like it 00:30:06.250 --> 00:30:09.890 100 % makes sense. Yeah, so the 80 -20 rule is 00:30:09.890 --> 00:30:11.750 also called the Pareto Principle. It's named 00:30:11.750 --> 00:30:14.589 after, I think it was a farmer or an economist 00:30:14.589 --> 00:30:16.170 that sort of figured this out. But they were 00:30:16.170 --> 00:30:18.700 looking at, I think, bean plants. And they looked 00:30:18.700 --> 00:30:21.859 at the yield and they said, hey, 20%, like a 00:30:21.859 --> 00:30:24.119 very small number of our bean plants, produce 00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:27.380 80 % of the yield of the actual beans that we 00:30:27.380 --> 00:30:29.900 can eat and sell and whatever else. And they 00:30:29.900 --> 00:30:31.440 looked at this principle and they started looking 00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:34.660 across lots of various domains, not just business, 00:30:34.740 --> 00:30:38.720 but this 80 -20 rule, meaning that we work five 00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:41.720 days a week. So one day of work, one focused 00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:44.259 day of work. typically yields most of the results 00:30:44.259 --> 00:30:47.000 in your business. We've done this in booksellers. 00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:49.559 I analyzed a mega bookseller back in like 2016 00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:52.740 and it was crazy. It was even more leveraged 00:30:52.740 --> 00:30:55.579 than that. I think it was something like 50 % 00:30:55.579 --> 00:30:59.000 of their units sold only generated 5 % of their 00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:01.160 profits. And so you look at that and you go, 00:31:01.220 --> 00:31:03.599 man, half of their business is incredibly inefficient. 00:31:04.140 --> 00:31:07.140 And this particular seller was trying to sell 00:31:07.140 --> 00:31:08.940 books and if they could make a nickel, I think 00:31:08.940 --> 00:31:12.569 5 cents was their profit threshold. And of course, 00:31:12.609 --> 00:31:14.509 prices fluctuate all the time. And as soon as 00:31:14.509 --> 00:31:17.329 the price deteriorates just a little bit, a lot 00:31:17.329 --> 00:31:19.349 of those books weren't profitable. And so looking 00:31:19.349 --> 00:31:20.950 at that seller, it's like, man, you're working 00:31:20.950 --> 00:31:24.069 so hard and half of your sales are hardly making 00:31:24.069 --> 00:31:26.829 any profit. And so what that means practically 00:31:26.829 --> 00:31:30.049 for most booksellers is probably your top 20 00:31:30.049 --> 00:31:33.029 % of books, your most expensive 20, the highest 00:31:33.029 --> 00:31:35.410 average selling price, are yielding most of your 00:31:35.410 --> 00:31:37.529 profits. So what does that mean? Should you just 00:31:37.529 --> 00:31:39.980 stop selling the other 80 %? Not necessarily, 00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:42.500 but I think it is a really good case for saying, 00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:44.619 hey, if I'm happy to sell books where I think 00:31:44.619 --> 00:31:47.700 I'm going to net $2, maybe start to raise that 00:31:47.700 --> 00:31:51.220 floor price, that profit target, maybe raise 00:31:51.220 --> 00:31:54.220 it up to $2 .50 or $3 and see what happens. And 00:31:54.220 --> 00:31:56.640 for most of you, your business won't hardly change. 00:31:56.779 --> 00:31:59.180 Your sales won't really struggle. And your profits, 00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:02.240 more importantly, will probably be very similar 00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:04.859 and you'll be working way less hard. And so it's 00:32:04.859 --> 00:32:06.859 really about saying, hey, how do we build a business 00:32:06.859 --> 00:32:09.529 that's efficient? that works for me where i don't 00:32:09.529 --> 00:32:11.250 feel stressed out and i feel like i'm rushing 00:32:11.250 --> 00:32:13.890 all the time and just you know i'm fragmented 00:32:13.890 --> 00:32:15.789 and distracted and trying to build a business 00:32:15.789 --> 00:32:18.529 when i could back up be a little more strategic 00:32:18.529 --> 00:32:21.710 which is that upstream idea and and you know 00:32:21.710 --> 00:32:24.130 sell fewer books but sell more of the right books 00:32:24.130 --> 00:32:28.549 yeah i agree you said it earlier um i i said 00:32:28.549 --> 00:32:30.309 it's funny i said the same exact thing on one 00:32:30.309 --> 00:32:33.369 of my calls i had i plan to source less this 00:32:33.369 --> 00:32:36.130 year the way that things are but In theory, my 00:32:36.130 --> 00:32:37.809 ASP should be higher, which means I'm going to 00:32:37.809 --> 00:32:39.329 have more money coming into the bank account. 00:32:39.450 --> 00:32:42.150 So I create less work for myself. But the problem 00:32:42.150 --> 00:32:44.289 with this, man, is we live in a world where it's 00:32:44.289 --> 00:32:47.450 like you need the dopamine, the gratification 00:32:47.450 --> 00:32:49.829 to like when you're out of the store. Right. 00:32:49.890 --> 00:32:52.829 Like I went out last week for the day and like 00:32:52.829 --> 00:32:54.589 I'm used to filling up the whole damn car with 00:32:54.589 --> 00:32:56.990 stuff. And it's like only like half a trunk full. 00:32:57.410 --> 00:32:59.410 But like to the average person, you're like, 00:32:59.470 --> 00:33:01.509 man, this sucks now. But to me, I'm like, well, 00:33:01.630 --> 00:33:04.460 I know everything that's in this trunk. is quality 00:33:04.460 --> 00:33:06.220 and it's probably going to sell within a month 00:33:06.220 --> 00:33:07.799 of it actually getting there and i don't have 00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:10.319 to wait for it to sit there for six to twelve 00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:13.000 months and possibly have to get rid of it Well, 00:33:13.059 --> 00:33:16.019 I've looked at some of your content and I think 00:33:16.019 --> 00:33:17.339 there's a couple of posts where you've just had 00:33:17.339 --> 00:33:19.619 one box held up and you go, Hey, this is just 00:33:19.619 --> 00:33:21.900 one box. It's not very sexy. It's not very glamorous, 00:33:21.940 --> 00:33:24.900 but this one box is going to net me $700. And 00:33:24.900 --> 00:33:27.839 so I think that's exactly what we're after now. 00:33:27.900 --> 00:33:29.980 It's not about filling a palette and the glamor 00:33:29.980 --> 00:33:32.119 shots of a full shopping cart. That's great. 00:33:32.259 --> 00:33:34.420 And again, it depends on what your metrics are. 00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:36.619 A lot of people got into the game and started 00:33:36.619 --> 00:33:38.420 selling and they used our hundred book challenge 00:33:38.420 --> 00:33:40.779 that Matthew and John Troutman put together. 00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:42.930 And if you're goal is to get a hundred books 00:33:42.930 --> 00:33:45.130 a week, sometimes, especially if it's getting 00:33:45.130 --> 00:33:47.150 to Friday or Saturday and you're not quite there, 00:33:47.269 --> 00:33:50.849 you sort of lower your criteria and say, yeah, 00:33:51.170 --> 00:33:53.309 I need to make $3 a book. This one's only 210, 00:33:53.549 --> 00:33:55.690 but yeah, I need more books. So you start to 00:33:55.690 --> 00:33:57.690 take, you know, books that don't really meet 00:33:57.690 --> 00:34:00.089 your criteria. And so it's just about, yeah, 00:34:00.150 --> 00:34:02.369 and it is less dopamine. You're not filling that 00:34:02.369 --> 00:34:05.549 up. Scott Galloway had a great post and he, instead 00:34:05.549 --> 00:34:08.309 of DOPA, he called it SLOPA. It's how do you 00:34:08.309 --> 00:34:10.559 do things a little more slowly. a little more 00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:12.739 intentionally and do things that can compound. 00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:16.559 And so it's kind of looking into that and trying 00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:18.480 to build a business that's meaningful versus 00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:22.139 just busy and hectic. Yeah, it's crazy because 00:34:22.139 --> 00:34:24.500 I sent the most inventory I ever have last year 00:34:24.500 --> 00:34:29.000 to get to my 185 in sales for the year. I just 00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:30.980 think this year, like imagine if I could just 00:34:30.980 --> 00:34:34.769 send like, you know, 20. 30 less inventory and 00:34:34.769 --> 00:34:36.710 still keep the same numbers or maybe even do 00:34:36.710 --> 00:34:40.289 160 in sales but my split is closer to like the 00:34:40.289 --> 00:34:43.269 50 50 you had right like instead of being the 00:34:43.630 --> 00:34:46.550 38 % after Amazon and then after your buy calls, 00:34:46.670 --> 00:34:48.989 like you raise your profit. You don't, you can 00:34:48.989 --> 00:34:51.449 make more money with a smaller sales number on 00:34:51.449 --> 00:34:53.090 Amazon, I guess is what I'm trying to get through 00:34:53.090 --> 00:34:54.710 to people. And I think a lot of people just, 00:34:54.829 --> 00:34:56.449 and you see it now, what would happen with the 00:34:56.449 --> 00:34:58.550 buy box? We go out and source and there's people 00:34:58.550 --> 00:35:01.210 that are using the repricers and they're matching 00:35:01.210 --> 00:35:03.409 like the lowest merchant, but like, it's not 00:35:03.409 --> 00:35:06.449 profitable FBA. You can't sell the book at $6 00:35:06.449 --> 00:35:09.170 and make money. But to them, they see the orange 00:35:09.170 --> 00:35:11.730 bar, like, Hey, look, I'm selling stuff now. 00:35:11.789 --> 00:35:13.670 But in theory, they're We're probably losing 00:35:13.670 --> 00:35:16.429 money on every single sale, but our brain computes 00:35:16.429 --> 00:35:18.409 it as, oh, it's a sale. So we made something, 00:35:18.570 --> 00:35:22.599 didn't we? Yeah, the sale feels good. The three 00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:24.360 years off, I've done a lot of research and just 00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:26.059 kind of looking at myself in terms of dopamine 00:35:26.059 --> 00:35:28.980 and cell phone addiction. And, you know, our 00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:31.000 society is built off things that make us feel 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:34.139 good in the short term. Drinking coffee, you 00:35:34.139 --> 00:35:36.460 know, whatever, nicotine, whatever else you're 00:35:36.460 --> 00:35:38.300 trying to pump into your system to just get that 00:35:38.300 --> 00:35:41.739 quick hit and feel alive and feel good versus 00:35:41.739 --> 00:35:44.099 saying, hey, what's the actual work here to build 00:35:44.099 --> 00:35:47.849 something that matters? Going back to the 80 00:35:47.849 --> 00:35:50.329 -20 rule real quick, again, there's just under 00:35:50.329 --> 00:35:52.969 20 ,000 sellers that have one or more ratings 00:35:52.969 --> 00:35:55.130 on Amazon. Again, there's booksellers that sell 00:35:55.130 --> 00:35:57.889 completely off of Amazon. There's booksellers 00:35:57.889 --> 00:36:00.010 that didn't reach one feedback last year. There's 00:36:00.010 --> 00:36:01.929 just launch booksellers. So, of course, the number 00:36:01.929 --> 00:36:05.010 is higher than that, but 20 ,000 on Amazon. Can 00:36:05.010 --> 00:36:07.289 I share your rating count for last year? Yeah, 00:36:07.289 --> 00:36:09.909 go ahead. It was 145. We looked at your data 00:36:09.909 --> 00:36:12.610 before we started. To get into the 100 -plus 00:36:12.610 --> 00:36:15.690 rating club last year in 2025, there was only 00:36:15.690 --> 00:36:18.909 690 sellers that reached that criteria. So you're 00:36:18.909 --> 00:36:21.789 in the top 3%. You're in the top 3%. You heard 00:36:21.789 --> 00:36:24.449 it here first. And to get to a thousand ratings, 00:36:24.690 --> 00:36:28.769 there's only 92 sellers, top half of 1%. To be 00:36:28.769 --> 00:36:30.590 in the top half of sellers, you just need to 00:36:30.590 --> 00:36:33.989 get to four feedback. So selling 600 books a 00:36:33.989 --> 00:36:36.489 year, that really is, you know, half the market 00:36:36.489 --> 00:36:38.449 does less than that. Half the market does more. 00:36:38.769 --> 00:36:41.829 So it doesn't take a lot. And again, a lot of 00:36:41.829 --> 00:36:43.750 booksellers are in it for a little extra spending 00:36:43.750 --> 00:36:46.190 cash. For me, we're going to Universal, taking 00:36:46.190 --> 00:36:48.829 the kids down there. I made just under five grand 00:36:48.829 --> 00:36:51.429 last year. That's going to cover a very fancy 00:36:51.429 --> 00:36:53.909 vacation and hopefully create some good memories 00:36:53.909 --> 00:36:56.929 of standing in line at a theme park. That's what 00:36:56.929 --> 00:36:59.170 the kids want to do. It's not my idea of fun. 00:36:59.349 --> 00:37:02.550 But my Amazon business did that. So it met a 00:37:02.550 --> 00:37:04.510 pretty cool goal, going to a handful of garage 00:37:04.510 --> 00:37:07.780 sales, shipping out a few orders a week. um you 00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:09.679 know not a lot of work i worked very very part 00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:11.500 -time in the book business but it's something 00:37:11.500 --> 00:37:13.900 meaningful so even though i think i had eight 00:37:13.900 --> 00:37:16.809 feedback last year so i'm in the top like 40 00:37:16.809 --> 00:37:18.989 % of booksellers. I'm just over half. Yay. Good 00:37:18.989 --> 00:37:21.389 for me. But there's a lot of people like that, 00:37:21.409 --> 00:37:23.670 that if you understand your numbers and you can 00:37:23.670 --> 00:37:25.869 source, again, I'm not selling a lot of eight 00:37:25.869 --> 00:37:28.369 and 10 and $12 books. I'm trying to sell, you 00:37:28.369 --> 00:37:31.170 know, 20 and up. And so I pass over a lot of 00:37:31.170 --> 00:37:32.730 books, even though it's a quick seller and I 00:37:32.730 --> 00:37:35.070 might make $3, it's just not worth the effort 00:37:35.070 --> 00:37:38.989 and the time. And so being disciplines has allowed 00:37:38.989 --> 00:37:41.289 me to build a business that it's very, very simple. 00:37:41.820 --> 00:37:43.920 and is meaningful. That's a few thousand dollars 00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:46.440 that I can use for whatever that is in your life. 00:37:46.519 --> 00:37:49.219 For me, it's an extra vacation. Yeah, I think 00:37:49.219 --> 00:37:52.960 you can definitely talk on this is when, especially 00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:54.820 if you're doing FBM, because FBM is like the 00:37:54.820 --> 00:37:56.500 big swing now, right? Everybody FBA wants to 00:37:56.500 --> 00:37:58.280 do FBM. And I try to tell you people, you have 00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:00.800 to value your time in this, right? Because maybe 00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:02.639 you do have to take yours to the post office. 00:38:02.699 --> 00:38:04.440 You got to buy the packing supplies. You're not 00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:06.579 just slapping a label on the book, right? You 00:38:06.579 --> 00:38:08.119 are taking the time to make sure it's in there 00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:10.619 correctly. There's more steps to it. So I think 00:38:10.619 --> 00:38:12.420 if you are going to be somebody like, hey, I'm 00:38:12.420 --> 00:38:15.349 going to start doing FBM. put some value on your 00:38:15.349 --> 00:38:17.489 time. Don't go for the low level stuff. And what 00:38:17.489 --> 00:38:20.230 he said, you know, the 20 plus ASP, it makes 00:38:20.230 --> 00:38:22.230 sense because we've, we've looked at it before. 00:38:22.349 --> 00:38:24.250 You have, there's a certain breaking point on 00:38:24.250 --> 00:38:26.650 Amazon where you sell a book and you make more 00:38:26.650 --> 00:38:28.489 than Amazon makes. And it's right around the 00:38:28.489 --> 00:38:31.269 $20 mark, right? So you sell a book at 20 bucks. 00:38:31.469 --> 00:38:34.429 Maybe you make 10 50, Amazon makes nine 50. That 00:38:34.429 --> 00:38:36.550 is where you want to be in the media world. And 00:38:36.550 --> 00:38:39.909 for a CD or DVD, it's $17. You make about $10 00:38:39.909 --> 00:38:43.210 before your buy cost at 17 on a CD, DVD and a 00:38:43.210 --> 00:38:44.719 book. little bit higher because they're heavier 00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:46.659 and the fees are based off that. So every book 00:38:46.659 --> 00:38:49.380 he sells over $20, he makes more than Amazon. 00:38:49.539 --> 00:38:51.739 But for me, I'm out, I source a quick moving 00:38:51.739 --> 00:38:54.119 book that's going to sell for 12 bucks. I'm only 00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:57.059 going to make $3, right? So that is kind of what 00:38:57.059 --> 00:38:59.239 you want to steer clear from if you're going 00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:01.239 to be wanting to do this part -time and have 00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:03.539 higher margins and actually make more money because 00:39:03.539 --> 00:39:06.159 I'll sit here in a minute. How many items I sold 00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:08.119 last year where I literally just wasted my time 00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:10.880 and spun my tires, sourcing it, buying it, putting 00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:13.920 it in a box. having it repriced, paying the storage 00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:16.820 fees. I mean, thousands of units last year, 100 00:39:16.820 --> 00:39:19.599 % I probably broke even on or lost money on. 00:39:20.420 --> 00:39:22.719 For sure. And I will say there's one caveat. 00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:24.980 If you are a brand new seller, you do have to 00:39:24.980 --> 00:39:26.880 sort of put the reps in to get your feedback 00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:29.199 to sort of, I don't know if you can qualify for 00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:31.199 the buy box on day one. That's something we'll 00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:33.719 look at. Before with FBA, it used to have, I 00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:36.199 think it was 10 ratings you had to get before 00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:38.920 you were buy box eligible. Amazon never stated 00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:40.619 that, but that just kind of seemed to be the 00:39:40.619 --> 00:39:43.039 magic number that once you hit that, but again, 00:39:43.099 --> 00:39:45.920 at 150 orders per rating. you would have to sell 00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:48.920 1 ,500 books to get to that level. So I will 00:39:48.920 --> 00:39:51.239 say the caveat used to be, and it probably still 00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:53.989 is, it's okay. to list some books that are cheaper 00:39:53.989 --> 00:39:56.710 and fast moving, especially because it is sort 00:39:56.710 --> 00:39:58.909 of building that capacity. You're proving to 00:39:58.909 --> 00:40:00.949 Amazon that you can ship things out on time and 00:40:00.949 --> 00:40:03.150 you're building that seller rating. And that 00:40:03.150 --> 00:40:05.550 is useful. And then over time, you can sort of, 00:40:05.550 --> 00:40:07.929 again, move the needle, move the goalposts and 00:40:07.929 --> 00:40:10.289 make sure you're being smarter. There's no brownie 00:40:10.289 --> 00:40:12.530 points for or bonus points for hitting 100 grand 00:40:12.530 --> 00:40:14.949 in sales or 50 grand in sales or whatever benchmark. 00:40:15.250 --> 00:40:17.530 It's dollars in your pocket at the end of the 00:40:17.530 --> 00:40:19.869 year. And again, it does take several months. 00:40:19.969 --> 00:40:21.769 This is not a get rich quick thing. Again, it's 00:40:21.769 --> 00:40:25.750 a I love that term from Scott. But it's how do 00:40:25.750 --> 00:40:27.889 you build a business and make sure you're putting 00:40:27.889 --> 00:40:30.449 the right inputs in and putting the right quality 00:40:30.449 --> 00:40:33.070 of books in, knowing that as they begin to sell, 00:40:33.210 --> 00:40:35.389 you're doing something that actually helps you 00:40:35.389 --> 00:40:37.610 meet your goals. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. When 00:40:37.610 --> 00:40:40.429 I started, dude, I remember like textbooks were 00:40:40.429 --> 00:40:43.449 like. gold to me right and then like I heard 00:40:43.449 --> 00:40:45.090 horror stories of people getting banned about 00:40:45.090 --> 00:40:47.730 textbooks and like I just quit selling textbooks 00:40:47.730 --> 00:40:50.510 cold turkey on Amazon and I thought like when 00:40:50.510 --> 00:40:52.550 I first started like you if you would have told 00:40:52.550 --> 00:40:54.590 me hey Mike you could still make money on Amazon 00:40:54.590 --> 00:40:56.130 not selling textbooks I'd have been like get 00:40:56.130 --> 00:40:57.369 the hell out of here there ain't no other books 00:40:57.369 --> 00:40:59.510 worth anything right and like I the fact that 00:40:59.510 --> 00:41:01.070 I haven't sold a textbook in three years and 00:41:01.070 --> 00:41:03.230 I'm just like I don't even need the textbooks 00:41:03.230 --> 00:41:05.349 and you know you've talked about it you know 00:41:05.769 --> 00:41:08.230 relationships it's all about you got to do a 00:41:08.230 --> 00:41:09.969 little bit more than just walk into a thrift 00:41:09.969 --> 00:41:12.170 store keep your head down scan the stuff sure 00:41:12.170 --> 00:41:14.690 you can make hundreds maybe even a couple thousands 00:41:14.690 --> 00:41:16.369 of dollars a month doing that but if you want 00:41:16.369 --> 00:41:18.750 something that's sustainable it's getting the 00:41:18.750 --> 00:41:21.250 library it's doing the commission type business 00:41:21.250 --> 00:41:23.429 with another you know brick and mortar and i 00:41:23.429 --> 00:41:25.210 have seen more brick and mortar bookstores pop 00:41:25.210 --> 00:41:27.449 up this is another thing people refuse to go 00:41:27.449 --> 00:41:29.409 in and source at these places and they're literal 00:41:29.409 --> 00:41:31.230 gold mines because they don't want to deal with 00:41:31.230 --> 00:41:33.409 online so they just put their stuff out on the 00:41:33.409 --> 00:41:35.989 shelf oh yeah our paperback are two, our hardbacks 00:41:35.989 --> 00:41:38.110 are four. They never scan anything for online. 00:41:38.269 --> 00:41:41.190 But us as thrifters, we just assume if it's not, 00:41:41.210 --> 00:41:43.409 if thrift store isn't in the name of the place 00:41:43.409 --> 00:41:45.570 we're going to, there's nothing there for us. 00:41:46.670 --> 00:41:49.590 Yeah, you're onto something there. Bookstores 00:41:49.590 --> 00:41:52.650 are opening. I think there's 422 is a stat I 00:41:52.650 --> 00:41:55.210 saw opened last year. So there is kind of a move 00:41:55.210 --> 00:41:57.949 back toward brick and mortar, back toward physical. 00:41:58.409 --> 00:42:01.090 And just to put some industry stats out there, 00:42:01.150 --> 00:42:04.420 I think there was just over 700 million. physical 00:42:04.420 --> 00:42:07.539 books sold last year in the US. So it is still 00:42:07.539 --> 00:42:10.500 a huge market. It's growing very slowly. It's 00:42:10.500 --> 00:42:12.639 not growing double digits or anything. It's very 00:42:12.639 --> 00:42:15.039 low single digits. But books are still alive 00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:17.800 and well. There's a lot of them being sold. And 00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:19.739 that's something you're looking at and trying 00:42:19.739 --> 00:42:22.159 to be strategic with it. Do you think there's 00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:25.349 going to be more? So like nowadays, if you're 00:42:25.349 --> 00:42:26.929 a brand new seller and you start selling books, 00:42:27.070 --> 00:42:29.230 you're probably gated on like 90 % of the category. 00:42:29.449 --> 00:42:31.630 But most of them come down once you send your 00:42:31.630 --> 00:42:33.269 first box. You got to like prove yourself to 00:42:33.269 --> 00:42:35.530 Amazon. You got to send a box, sell a few, then 00:42:35.530 --> 00:42:37.050 all these gates start coming down. But there 00:42:37.050 --> 00:42:39.030 are bigger ones that are gated for people like 00:42:39.030 --> 00:42:41.530 Scholastic nowadays. Do you think in the future, 00:42:41.570 --> 00:42:43.489 just Amazon overall with the way that's kind 00:42:43.489 --> 00:42:44.650 of trending, do you think there's going to be 00:42:44.650 --> 00:42:47.010 like more of these hard gates that we're not 00:42:47.010 --> 00:42:48.849 going to be able to get past? Personally, I've 00:42:48.849 --> 00:42:50.789 done it enough and I don't know how they decide, 00:42:50.909 --> 00:42:53.619 like when they rolled out Scholastic. Like I 00:42:53.619 --> 00:42:55.260 wasn't affected by it. Like they automatically 00:42:55.260 --> 00:42:57.699 pushed me through for whatever reason. I wish 00:42:57.699 --> 00:42:59.320 there was like some type of analytics behind 00:42:59.320 --> 00:43:01.519 that. Like, Hey, if you don't sell a hundred 00:43:01.519 --> 00:43:05.159 scholastic books in the last 365 days, then unfortunately 00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:07.000 we're going to make you, you know, get an invoice 00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:08.599 to get ungated. Like what's your thoughts behind 00:43:08.599 --> 00:43:11.369 the gates going on right now? Again, I'm not 00:43:11.369 --> 00:43:13.849 as into the weed, so I don't have a crystal ball 00:43:13.849 --> 00:43:16.110 and I'm not as familiar. So I don't want to just 00:43:16.110 --> 00:43:18.070 say something like I don't want to hallucinate 00:43:18.070 --> 00:43:19.789 like AI tends to do and just tell me something 00:43:19.789 --> 00:43:22.449 that may not be true. But you're exactly right. 00:43:22.510 --> 00:43:24.650 People that have been in the game longer to have 00:43:24.650 --> 00:43:27.630 more sales history and kind of prove themselves 00:43:27.630 --> 00:43:30.030 are certainly going to be grandfathered through. 00:43:30.110 --> 00:43:32.690 Again, 20 ,000 booksellers, those that have sold, 00:43:32.829 --> 00:43:35.239 you know, have 100 feedback. There's only, you 00:43:35.239 --> 00:43:37.320 know, just under 700 of them. So it's a very 00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:39.820 small group. And Amazon for sure is going to, 00:43:39.820 --> 00:43:43.039 you know, cater to the sellers that have already 00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:45.719 proven themselves versus saying, hey, and again, 00:43:45.820 --> 00:43:47.380 there's counterfeit books out there. I don't 00:43:47.380 --> 00:43:50.940 know why Scholastic in particular is maybe clamping 00:43:50.940 --> 00:43:52.539 down on that, but maybe they've been pressuring 00:43:52.539 --> 00:43:54.639 Amazon and Amazon said, you know what? We're 00:43:54.639 --> 00:43:56.000 going to put some sort of a gating requirement 00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:58.079 and we're going to let the best of the best through. 00:43:58.420 --> 00:44:00.599 Now, that doesn't mean you can't keep going. 00:44:00.699 --> 00:44:03.079 So one of the things we looked at is what's the 00:44:03.079 --> 00:44:05.480 launch date for booksellers? And you can see 00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:07.960 that on the blog post again over at upstreampursuits 00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:10.739 .com. But we looked at sellers who sold at least 00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:14.719 10 ,000 units in 2025, again, based on 150 orders 00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:20.340 per rating. And there's a little, basically 100 00:44:20.340 --> 00:44:23.860 sellers a year. since 2018 so keepa started tracking 00:44:23.860 --> 00:44:28.059 data uh late 2016 early early 17. so there's 00:44:28.059 --> 00:44:30.719 about a thousand sellers that started pre pre 00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:34.320 -17 2017 that meet that criteria but there's 00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:37.639 over a hundred sellers a year since 2018 all 00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:39.480 the way up except for 2025 because it's hard 00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:42.440 to establish yourself that quickly but 2024 had 00:44:42.440 --> 00:44:44.639 just over 100 sellers that have met that criteria 00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:47.500 so it doesn't mean there's no room for sellers 00:44:47.500 --> 00:44:50.119 to kind of build an operation and ramp up quickly 00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:53.489 you can But you have to prove yourself. And so 00:44:53.489 --> 00:44:56.170 getting higher volumes is certainly going to 00:44:56.170 --> 00:44:59.030 push you higher up on Amazon's, you know, totem 00:44:59.030 --> 00:45:02.329 pole. And it's it's it's crazy, like the fact 00:45:02.329 --> 00:45:05.809 that. I mean, 95 % of the book community had 00:45:05.809 --> 00:45:07.610 no idea like these were the types of numbers 00:45:07.610 --> 00:45:09.550 because usually when I talk to people and I have 00:45:09.550 --> 00:45:11.309 people I talk to like, man, I'm only doing $1 00:45:11.309 --> 00:45:13.369 ,000 a month. And I'm like, wait a minute, you're 00:45:13.369 --> 00:45:15.250 only doing $1 ,000 a month. I don't think you 00:45:15.250 --> 00:45:17.849 realize like you're way up there in the percentile 00:45:17.849 --> 00:45:20.590 of people that actually are doing $1 ,000 a month. 00:45:20.690 --> 00:45:23.610 I think everybody just has this idea that everybody's 00:45:23.610 --> 00:45:25.650 out here crushing it. Everybody's in the thrift 00:45:25.650 --> 00:45:27.849 store. Everybody's making all this crazy money. 00:45:27.929 --> 00:45:29.489 And it's like the furthest thing from the truth. 00:45:29.550 --> 00:45:31.469 Like people sell themselves short so much in 00:45:31.469 --> 00:45:33.579 the book selling business. And I'm like. no like 00:45:33.579 --> 00:45:35.860 you're doing this one day a week you got an extra 00:45:35.860 --> 00:45:38.019 thousand two thousand dollars coming into the 00:45:38.019 --> 00:45:40.019 bank account there's not many businesses out 00:45:40.019 --> 00:45:41.980 there that kind of allow you to make this kind 00:45:41.980 --> 00:45:44.420 of money with as little bit of effort i'm always 00:45:44.420 --> 00:45:47.119 full transparent i may i do two full sourcing 00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:49.519 days a week i only go out two days but these 00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:52.019 are like i'm locked in i'm going out i got my 00:45:52.019 --> 00:45:53.460 route i'm hitting all the stores i'm scanning 00:45:53.460 --> 00:45:55.480 all the shit there's nothing else going on i'm 00:45:55.480 --> 00:45:57.780 not cutting halfway through whatever it may be 00:45:57.780 --> 00:46:00.199 so like The fact that you can still make this 00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:02.320 type of money, even with this new buy box change, 00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:05.099 it's not like I'm scared and I think this is 00:46:05.099 --> 00:46:07.780 the end of Amazon. Like you said, we're businesses. 00:46:07.940 --> 00:46:09.800 We got to figure out how to fix the problems. 00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:13.119 And I don't want to FBM, dude. Listen, I know 00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:16.980 you're trying to convince me like everybody else 00:46:16.980 --> 00:46:20.219 for the past 30 years, I'm not doing FBM. But 00:46:20.219 --> 00:46:22.420 for me, that means I'm going to find less inventory. 00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:25.860 And I got to be better at the stuff I'm buying. 00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:28.500 The stuff I get, I probably need another library 00:46:28.500 --> 00:46:31.119 in my back pocket. I probably need another clean 00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:34.139 out company. But I also think people overanalyze 00:46:34.139 --> 00:46:37.280 how hard it is to get these. Like I cold emailed. 00:46:37.500 --> 00:46:39.940 I did it probably in the middle of summer. I 00:46:39.940 --> 00:46:42.750 went in Google, typed it all in. clean out company 00:46:42.750 --> 00:46:45.190 near me, library company near me, cold emailed. 00:46:45.309 --> 00:46:47.869 I literally got an estate sale company, a library, 00:46:48.230 --> 00:46:50.750 another thrift store. And they didn't even know 00:46:50.750 --> 00:46:53.150 who the hell I was. I just said, hey, you have 00:46:53.150 --> 00:46:55.590 media you don't want. I'll pay you for this stuff. 00:46:55.690 --> 00:46:56.929 And they're like, wait a minute, you actually 00:46:56.929 --> 00:46:59.170 want this junk? Like, it's so easy. But if you 00:46:59.170 --> 00:47:02.119 don't know, I guess you don't know. Yeah. And 00:47:02.119 --> 00:47:03.739 a lot of it's just telling people what you do. 00:47:03.860 --> 00:47:06.280 So I love, again, you are the definition of upstream. 00:47:06.500 --> 00:47:08.599 You're very strategic with your routes. You're 00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:10.260 very strategic. You're doing things that are 00:47:10.260 --> 00:47:12.360 going against the current. Most people aren't 00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:14.239 going to reach out and put themselves out there 00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:16.659 and get rejected. And you did. And look what 00:47:16.659 --> 00:47:19.480 happens. Something as silly as I walk my dog, 00:47:19.579 --> 00:47:21.360 you know, try to every day right now, it's, you 00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:23.300 know, 12 degrees outside here in Indiana and 00:47:23.300 --> 00:47:26.139 it's, it's tough to do, but walking my dog, we 00:47:26.139 --> 00:47:28.300 have a neighbor one street over, they have a 00:47:28.300 --> 00:47:30.480 huge dog and we got to striking up a conversation. 00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:33.119 asked what do I do I said well I used to sell 00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:35.519 books I still kind of do and her eyes lit up 00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:38.599 and she goes I'm an interior designer I studied 00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:40.880 I've done all these houses she designed her own 00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:44.119 house it's amazing she had me over we sat down 00:47:44.119 --> 00:47:46.619 for tea and coffee and whatever and she's like 00:47:46.619 --> 00:47:48.440 can you teach me how to sell I said sure I'd 00:47:48.440 --> 00:47:50.980 love to so we go and I start kind of explaining 00:47:50.980 --> 00:47:52.760 and showing her how to scan the books and what 00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:55.159 the next steps are her eyes start to glaze over 00:47:55.159 --> 00:47:57.179 and she goes Why don't you just do it for me? 00:47:57.239 --> 00:47:58.980 I said, awesome. I have a consignment program. 00:47:59.219 --> 00:48:00.820 I can track everything. I'll pay you half of 00:48:00.820 --> 00:48:03.320 the profits. You know, I'll just come over and 00:48:03.320 --> 00:48:05.519 take the books I need. Well, she had a collection 00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:08.840 of several thousand design books and most of 00:48:08.840 --> 00:48:11.079 them were profitable. And we're talking, you 00:48:11.079 --> 00:48:13.239 know, 20 to $50 books. These are, that's like, 00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:16.539 that's the dream. So my buy cost is zero. I'm 00:48:16.539 --> 00:48:18.980 literally driving my car less than a quarter 00:48:18.980 --> 00:48:21.739 mile away, picking up books at her house, building 00:48:21.739 --> 00:48:23.739 a relationship with my neighbor, and every month 00:48:23.739 --> 00:48:26.239 I just pay her half the profits. So those deals 00:48:26.239 --> 00:48:29.079 are out there. She probably has designer friends, 00:48:29.300 --> 00:48:31.679 and I've done this for two months with her now. 00:48:31.860 --> 00:48:33.880 And so by the time I go and pay her one more 00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:35.940 time, it's like, hey. What are your referrals? 00:48:36.139 --> 00:48:37.539 You know, what other books do you got? Because 00:48:37.539 --> 00:48:39.699 she still has rooms we haven't touched yet. So 00:48:39.699 --> 00:48:42.179 how do we go back and keep going? But again, 00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:43.980 putting yourself out there and just telling people 00:48:43.980 --> 00:48:46.019 what you do, even though it's weird and different 00:48:46.019 --> 00:48:48.019 and some people don't quite get it, like people 00:48:48.019 --> 00:48:50.719 still read. That's still a thing. Doing that 00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:54.159 leads to really cool relationships and opportunities. 00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:56.699 All right, man. What else you want to cover before 00:48:56.699 --> 00:49:00.139 we wrap this up? Man, that's pretty much it. 00:49:00.179 --> 00:49:02.239 Again, a big thing with me is just know your 00:49:02.239 --> 00:49:05.019 numbers and know your goals. Again, you're going 00:49:05.019 --> 00:49:07.139 to hear so many great ideas, whether it's on 00:49:07.139 --> 00:49:09.219 Mike's podcast or any of the other influencers 00:49:09.219 --> 00:49:11.760 out there. And it's awesome to kind of chase 00:49:11.760 --> 00:49:14.199 shiny and see what's possible. But ultimately, 00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:16.360 if you have a business you're proud of that's 00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:18.900 accomplishing your goals, that's all that matters. 00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:21.340 If you're trying to make $1 ,000 a month. and 00:49:21.340 --> 00:49:23.920 help augment your social security if you're partly 00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:26.260 retired if you know whatever that might be you're 00:49:26.260 --> 00:49:29.219 trying to help pay for your kids school or insurance 00:49:29.219 --> 00:49:31.659 or whatever that is if that's your goal and you 00:49:31.659 --> 00:49:33.920 can find a way to do that as efficiently as possible 00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:36.460 you've won like you've built something that works 00:49:36.460 --> 00:49:39.139 for you and you should be very proud now do you 00:49:39.139 --> 00:49:41.059 want to scale and grow and try and turn that 00:49:41.059 --> 00:49:44.760 into 2 000 or 5 000 or 10 sure maybe maybe you 00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:47.460 do but a big part of business is just defining 00:49:47.460 --> 00:49:50.690 enough getting really clear about what is success. 00:49:51.260 --> 00:49:53.659 and then just ruthlessly going after that. And 00:49:53.659 --> 00:49:57.260 so, again, if that resonates with you, if you 00:49:57.260 --> 00:49:59.039 want to build a business that's efficient and 00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:01.480 strategic and kind of explore your curiosity, 00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:03.639 come check us out. We don't have a community 00:50:03.639 --> 00:50:06.800 or anything yet, just a free blog, but it's upstreampursuits 00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:10.119 .com. Caleb at upstreampursuits .com. Please 00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:12.940 reach out. I reply to everything. I love connecting 00:50:12.940 --> 00:50:16.079 with entrepreneurs. You're my people, and I'm 00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:18.179 excited to sort of be back in this space and 00:50:18.179 --> 00:50:20.570 to serve the community. I'm going to clip that. 00:50:20.670 --> 00:50:22.590 So when anybody asks me, Mike, when are you getting 00:50:22.590 --> 00:50:24.289 a warehouse? Mike, when are you going to be the 00:50:24.289 --> 00:50:25.909 million dollar seller? I'll just say, hey, wait 00:50:25.909 --> 00:50:27.929 a minute. I got a guy. He said something for 00:50:27.929 --> 00:50:30.010 me. Just listen to this and then you can leave 00:50:30.010 --> 00:50:31.409 me alone because I'm literally the definition 00:50:31.409 --> 00:50:33.929 of that. I know exactly what I need to put into 00:50:33.929 --> 00:50:35.710 retirement, how much money is coming into the 00:50:35.710 --> 00:50:38.130 bank account. I want to live comfortably. I want 00:50:38.130 --> 00:50:40.210 to enjoy my time here on planet earth. I don't 00:50:40.210 --> 00:50:41.969 want to be out there living in the gay lords 00:50:41.969 --> 00:50:44.050 and having, you know, there's nothing wrong with 00:50:44.050 --> 00:50:45.550 doing that. It's just not the type of life I 00:50:45.550 --> 00:50:47.369 want to live. All the links for everything he's 00:50:47.369 --> 00:50:49.510 talked about will be in the description and down 00:50:49.510 --> 00:50:51.789 in the comment section below. Caleb, I appreciate 00:50:51.789 --> 00:50:55.090 you returning the podcast favor three years later. 00:50:55.250 --> 00:50:58.389 I'm glad we're both back together now. Soon enough, 00:50:58.469 --> 00:51:00.670 the Avengers will all be back together and we'll 00:51:00.670 --> 00:51:03.139 be good to go. That sounds amazing. Mike, thanks 00:51:03.139 --> 00:51:05.500 for having me. And thanks for doing, we talked 00:51:05.500 --> 00:51:07.219 about it in the pre -show, but thanks for doing 00:51:07.219 --> 00:51:10.099 business the right way. And I'm excited to kind 00:51:10.099 --> 00:51:12.579 of see where all this leads us. Appreciate you, 00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:14.900 man. Thanks for listening to another episode 00:51:14.900 --> 00:51:17.519 of the Reseller's Mindset Podcast. Today's full 00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:19.800 episode and all previous episodes are available 00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:22.320 to all YouTube members, along with the weekly 00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:25.059 Zoom call and private Discord. Head on over to 00:51:25.059 --> 00:51:27.840 youtube .com backslash to use book guy and consider 00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:29.900 joining for as little as $2 .99 a month.