1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:10,460 What's up guys? It's been a minute since I got to put an episode up here on all of these 2 00:00:10,460 --> 00:00:17,900 podcasting platforms but if you haven't heard yet, we're over on Facebook live. Head over 3 00:00:17,900 --> 00:00:27,120 to Facebook live. We're trying to do as much on there as possible and monetize on there. 4 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:35,960 And then we're going to swing back around all these podcasting platforms. Finish season 5 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:44,520 three, get some more guests on the show. Line up season four. And yeah, we're going to have 6 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:55,240 some good guests. So today we got the interview with Anna Schwabbe and she's a doctor. So 7 00:00:55,240 --> 00:01:03,760 hope you guys enjoy this. Talk soon. Tell me a little about yourself. Tell me a little 8 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:12,760 about what you do. Hey, Ryan. Yeah, it was good to speak with you the other day. So I'm 9 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:21,360 Dr. Anna Schwabbe. I got nicknamed Dr. Anibis about three years ago, which I think is pretty 10 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:28,880 funny and I just kind of ran with it. But I have a PhD in cannabis genetics. It's a pretty 11 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:34,200 interesting and lengthy story, but basically I got interested. Well, I've always been interested 12 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:42,560 in cannabis ever since, you know, probably high school. But I really got into cannabis 13 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:47,040 and kind of thinking about cannabis research when I was working at the Denver Botanic Gardens 14 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:55,880 back in, let's see, this was 2012 to 2015. Thinking about various questions that were 15 00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:01,360 coming up after the legalization for adult use in Colorado. And the number one thing 16 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:07,320 that stuck out to me was people saying that if they go to different dispensaries and buy 17 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,520 the same kind of flower, the same strain, they didn't have the same effects. And I thought 18 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:17,120 that was really strange because, you know, if it's got a name, like if it's a Granny 19 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:22,040 Smith apple, you should be the same, we're relatively the same with a little bit of variation, 20 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,280 you know, because it's a plant, no matter where you get it. And so that's kind of where 21 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:32,640 my interest started. And I brought it up to my to my mentor that I had for my master's 22 00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:41,040 degree and the school, the University of Northern Colorado, we were able to kind of 23 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:47,440 figure out a way for me to get some research done with high THC type cannabis, which is 24 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:53,520 basically not a thing at universities here in the United States. Most of the cannabis 25 00:02:53,520 --> 00:03:02,920 research is is limited to hemp research, because TAC type cannabis is still federally 26 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:08,280 illegal. And so a lot of universities don't, they don't want to touch it. So I kind of 27 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:13,240 was in this really unique position where I was able to get a PhD in cannabis genetics 28 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:22,120 with high TTC type cannabis from dispensaries answering questions that really were consumer 29 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:28,040 driven, consumer focused. So I was going into dispensaries and buying weed just like anybody 30 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,320 would and then conducting experiments, not partnering with a cultivator or partnering 31 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:36,880 with a lab, like it was all just kind of like super secret off the shelf testing kind of 32 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,880 stuff to answer some of these really crazy questions. And it was awesome. And it took 33 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:46,000 me four years, I could have done it quicker, but they wanted me to slow down, pump the 34 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:53,320 brakes. But I think I got five publications out of that, which a lot of people would be 35 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:59,840 familiar with. You know, the big one is that, you know, strains aren't always what they 36 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:06,240 say they are. And then the other one is the TAC inflation that everybody's talking about 37 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:11,920 these days. That was another one that was very popular. And then the other one was that 38 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:17,960 the cannabis used for research, the research grade marijuana from the University of Mississippi 39 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:26,360 is more closely related to hemp than it is to anything that any consumers, patients or 40 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:32,920 recreational have access to, which is really odd. But yeah, so that's that's who I am. 41 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,360 That's what I've done. And what I'm doing now is looking for a job. 42 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:45,320 We had spoke about that. And that's very, that's very unfortunate. And what's your 43 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:51,200 we're going to we're going to hop back to that in a second here. But the the blue dream, 44 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,280 I believe you're talking about and how it's you were ever you compared it to a Granny 45 00:04:55,280 --> 00:05:01,480 Smith apple and how you would assume since they are all blue dream that you know, there 46 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:06,000 might be, you know, they should all have the same taste. You know, you know, a Granny 47 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:11,720 Smith apple to have like that sweet tart taste to it, right? You know, a little bit south. 48 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:22,040 Yeah, there's a there's like a level of expectation that a Granny Smith should be it should be 49 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:29,040 green. It should be round. It should be tart. Depending on where they're grown, though, I 50 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,360 mean, they are going to be differences, right? So a Tasmanian, if you know where Tasmania 51 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:38,240 is, it's a state in Australia, the little bottom island of Australia. So they're really 52 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:43,160 well known for their apples, actually, but a Granny Smith grown in Tasmania might be 53 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:52,800 different from a Granny Smith grown in California. But they have they have various features that 54 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:59,080 that make them a Granny Smith, like you would never you would never confuse a Granny Smith 55 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:04,560 with a golden delicious apple, right? They're they're they're different. And if the thing 56 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:10,080 with like, you know, lots of things like dogs, like I have Docsons, all three look different, 57 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:19,080 but there is a set of traits that hold them together as and make them identifiable as 58 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,800 Docsons, right? You would never look at a Docson to be like, that's a great thing. 59 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:23,800 Right. 60 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:30,320 So you're like, hot dog, because hot dog dog. Yeah. And I had like one short hair, red 61 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:35,800 Docson, one short haired black and dappled Docson. And then I have a long hair double 62 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:41,000 dappled Docson. And they all look really different, but they all still are very identifiable 63 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:47,800 as Docsons. And so when I'm talking about Blue Dream, for example, like, there should 64 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:52,680 be something similar about Blue Dream, no matter where you get it. And the consumers 65 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:58,120 really don't have any information other than the name on the package and potentially the 66 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:04,640 TTC content to tell you that it's Blue Dream. And it's not only consumers, right? So if 67 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:09,320 you're a cultivator and you order seeds of Blue Dream, which isn't a thing because Blue 68 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:15,240 Dream was not ever stabilized, it should be a clone only. But let's say you order some 69 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:22,520 clones, you have to go off there, the person who's supplying you with that, those clones 70 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:28,000 that they are giving you Blue Dream and that they had received Blue Dream to make cuts 71 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:33,760 from. So like there's this whole thing all the way down the chain of command where there's 72 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:42,440 no, there's literally no checks. And what do I want to say? There's no way to check that 73 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:47,080 you have the thing that you think you're getting, you just have to kind of trust it, trust 74 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:53,320 the process. And mask up in a certain sense, because they're 75 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:59,320 they're always talking about regulation and there's all these rules and like just the 76 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:06,760 future is definitely coming together. It's just having these extra things like, for example, 77 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:13,120 you were talking about the stabilization of the of Blue Dream. And I'm thinking, including 78 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:18,880 myself, I would not, I really wouldn't have known that it's, you know, Blue Dream, you 79 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:24,600 mentioned that being not being stabilized. What exactly does that mean? 80 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:29,800 So to stabilize your genetic line, what you need to do is basically breed out all the 81 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:36,920 variation. So it takes multiple generations of putting to like, and it might be easier 82 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:41,680 for people to think of two dogs. Okay, so you get you go to the pound, you pick up two 83 00:08:41,680 --> 00:08:47,680 dogs, and you're hoping to make a new breed. Those two dogs are muts and they have a combination 84 00:08:47,680 --> 00:08:52,560 of multiple different types of dogs in them. You breed them together. That first letter 85 00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:58,160 is going to have a whole lot of variation in it. So then you're going to take a couple 86 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:04,120 of the puppies and breed them together and try to start breeding it, reading, choosing 87 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,800 the traits that you want, and getting rid of the traits that you don't. So you're going 88 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,920 to pick the perfect, the, you know, the two perfect, or you can even back cross to one 89 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:19,320 of the parents. And you're going to start breeding and eliminating individuals that 90 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:27,000 have traits that are undesirable and keeping it and in breeding for the traits that you 91 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:32,880 are looking for. And we all, you know, have been conditioned to know that inbreeding is 92 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:39,760 a bad thing, right? When you inbreed, especially people and you get, you get some things that 93 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:49,080 come along with that, you know, certain diseases and things like that. But that's, that's how 94 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:55,200 we get stable lines is we inbreed until, you know, when you breed two toxins together, 95 00:09:55,200 --> 00:10:02,440 you get all baby toxins, you won't get an accidental dalmatian out of a litter of toxins 96 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:07,680 that have been bred from purebred toxins. So really what, what that stabilization is 97 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:21,440 doing is, is creating non variable traits, right? That makes sense. No, you're definitely 98 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:27,920 not going to get a dalmatian by breeding two. That's how, that's how, that's how you make 99 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:34,000 a cultivar, right? So cultivars, there's this whole ongoing debate about, we shouldn't 100 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:39,960 say the word strain, we should use cultivar, right? But a cultivar is something that has 101 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:45,120 been bred and selected for and is stable, for the most part. I mean, there's, there's 102 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:50,240 a couple of exceptions, like if it's, you know, propagated through clone only, you know, 103 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:57,520 it has to be novel, distinct in uniform, and stable, like those are just the things that 104 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:02,800 a cultivar has to be. So I kind of think about it, like a lot of things on the market, including 105 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:08,840 blue dream, they're not stable. Like if you put two different blue dream plants together, 106 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,600 you're still going to have a lot of variation in that offspring. And that's why they say 107 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:17,120 it's clone only is because you're not going to get those, that set of traits that you 108 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:23,880 were looking for, if you breed blue dream from seed, right? So that's what clone only 109 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:31,440 means. But there's lots, there's quite, there's a few, there's a few cannabis varieties out 110 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:36,280 there that, you know, would be considered cultivars that they've been around for years, 111 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:40,640 that you know what you're going to get when you grow them from seed. But the problem with 112 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:45,720 cannabis is that again, it's federally illegal. So there's no way to register, register new 113 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:51,760 cultivars really at this time. And so it just makes a lot more sense if you find something 114 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:57,600 that you like, you know, you, you, you put two things together, you get offspring, you 115 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:02,960 like this, it's just easier to grow up a plant and then, and then clone it instead of going 116 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:08,280 through all of that, that whole process of breeding out all of the undesirable traits, 117 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:14,360 which takes a lot of time, a lot of resources, a lot of, you know, like it's, it's a long 118 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,520 process. And it's just easier to cut off bits of the plant and start growing new plants. 119 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:28,160 Right? Yeah. So I think that's, and it's pretty unique to cannabis because it has been illegal 120 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:37,440 for so long that, you know, creating cultivars and breeding out undesirable traits just isn't 121 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:43,240 really worth it for most people. It's just like, oh, let's find something we like, and 122 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:48,720 then we'll just clone it. So it's kind of, and then people will, you know, breed it with 123 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:54,280 something else or, or they'll self like they'll create feminized seeds, which is fine. You 124 00:12:54,280 --> 00:13:00,560 can, you can do that and create a pretty, pretty good stable seeds and they'll be female, 125 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:08,720 which is great. But it's like this mishmash patchwork of everything out there. I don't 126 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:15,840 know if that makes sense. No, it is. It's a, it's definitely a thorough, very thorough 127 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:22,720 long process. I'm not a breeder, but I've done some research. You've done a lot of research. 128 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:28,040 A lot of it. I don't think how long have you been doing this for? Because this is, this 129 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:33,400 is very, people need to know this perspective. How long have you been doing this? 130 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:41,760 Well, my interest in cannabis started in about 1993, where I tried to grow some cannabis, 131 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:48,560 but my parents caught me and I got in trouble. But I started seriously researching cannabis 132 00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:57,040 in 2015. So almost, it's so nine years. And that's, that's like day in, day out. That's 133 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:03,600 my job is to sit, you know, through grad school was doing experiments on cannabis, reading 134 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,760 everything, reading every book, every paper, everything that I possibly get my hands on 135 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:13,320 to learn everything that I possibly could. And, and that's just in one like facet of 136 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:20,160 cannabis, you know, I don't know much about like extracts, extractions and things like 137 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:24,240 that. Like there's a whole not that there's so many arms in the cannabis industry. And 138 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:30,120 I just am in one little bubble of it. But yeah, nine years of me, you know, working 139 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:35,080 40 plus hours on just cannabis. 140 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:45,440 I'm telling you, there are, I would say four out of five people, three out of five people 141 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:53,720 ish right now would be like, wow, I really want her job. I would really have liked to 142 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:54,720 do that. 143 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:55,720 You know, 144 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:56,720 I don't have 145 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:03,280 right. We're about to jump into that next year. Because you were doing, you were doing 146 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:12,640 some, some work where we were not we were you were planting hemp in sort in like forested 147 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:17,320 areas. So give me a give me a little background on that. 148 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:22,520 Yeah. So, well straight out of grad school, I actually worked for a company called mile 149 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:28,680 high labs in Colorado, and I was doing some research stuff with them. My title was research 150 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:37,240 coordinator and we were trying to get some research set up to do like pre clinical stuff 151 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,480 on various minor cannabinoids, which there's not a lot of research out there. People always 152 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,880 ask me, what does CBG do? What does CBN do? And I'm like, well, you know, we don't know 153 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:52,200 very much. But that job, that job got that was only a short lived position because the 154 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:59,440 company kind of imploded. But then I was picked up by a company in New Jersey, a startup 155 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:07,360 company called shore organics slash 420 organics. And they moved me out to New Jersey and they 156 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:14,600 have a hemp farm where they use aquaponics methods to grow CBD type hemp that will eventually 157 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:22,600 go for extraction. But yeah, it's out in the forest in New Jersey. And we were, we had 158 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:29,240 fish that poop, and then that poop would get processed through various biological filters, 159 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:37,120 shrimp and microbes and things like that. And then when we'd use that nitrate rich water 160 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:46,160 to feed the plants. And it's all organic, we didn't add anything else like no, no other 161 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:54,720 amendments to the soil was a living soil situation as well. So yeah, so that's what we were doing. 162 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:59,040 Pretty cool stuff. I was with that company for three and a half years up until just about 163 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:03,400 three weeks ago, they had to let me go because they had run out of money, which is, you know, 164 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:10,280 one of the, one of the things that comes with working for a startup in cannabis, probably 165 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:17,640 in any industry really startups are sometimes they don't work out. So hopefully this company 166 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:23,080 will keep going. I really like what they're doing. And they're, they're planning to expand 167 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:29,200 into the THC market as well. They've got the licenses. It's just been a really slow, long 168 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:35,360 process here in New Jersey. The regulators are just dicking around and you got to deal 169 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:40,920 with townships and whatnot. But I hope that they keep going and I hope that they do well. 170 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:46,960 They haven't, they haven't totally like thrown in the towel yet. So I'm some funding, find 171 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:52,080 someone, find some investors, you know, as this sounds like something you would like 172 00:17:52,080 --> 00:18:00,200 to be part of. I'm going to include Anna's information here in the website description, 173 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:08,080 I mean the website, the episode description. So there'll be a link to her website where 174 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,760 you'll be able to learn a little bit more about her and contact her if you have any 175 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,960 questions and if she can point you in the right direction. You know, this is something 176 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:25,400 that both Anna and I love to do is talk cannabis, be around cannabis. And a lot of the things 177 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:32,880 going forward matter about what people like Anna are doing, trying to do, are going to 178 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:41,280 do. So we are coming to a day where there's a lot of things changing, a lot of laws that 179 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:48,720 are changing. There's been a farm bill, which has garnered a lot of attention. So I kind 180 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:57,800 of wanted to get your opinion on that. Proposals looking like that it's going to go disapproving 181 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:07,360 or not disapproving, but kind of making like HHC, which is a naturally occurring cannabinoid 182 00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:16,800 in the plant in some variations. HHC does not occur in the plant at all. It's the plant, 183 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:25,920 no, no, no. Nope. Nope. Nope. What I had read is it said that in some African strains 184 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:35,160 that HHC no pops up as a semi occurring or something of that nature. I would love to 185 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,080 see that. I have never heard that and I've never seen that. And I talked to a lot of 186 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:46,400 people who do a lot of testing. There are some African strains that have TACV, but HHC 187 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:52,840 is not a naturally occurring cannabinoid. And there's, it has to be done in a lab. Just 188 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,000 the nature of the molecule doesn't occur in nature. 189 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:08,160 Yeah. I had read in a couple of places that HHC was found in veer, like we're talking 190 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:17,480 semi microscopic amounts in African strains. It was something I had seen, but that's probably 191 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:24,600 subjective to the type of testing that's been going on or something. I don't know. I know 192 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:34,200 that it's a hydrogenated version of TACV, how that could happen in a plant. It was fascinating 193 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:44,720 to me, but like CBN, CBD, CBG, CBDC or CBC or whatnot, kind of leaves a lot of questions 194 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,440 in the air of what's going to happen. 195 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:59,200 So yeah, so let's talk. So the plant technically doesn't even make Delta 9 THC or CBD or CBG 196 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:06,960 or CBC. The plant makes the acidic versions of those, right? So we have CBGA, which is 197 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:08,640 cannabinorolic acid. 198 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:24,520 I'll say that. So technically, the plant makes the acidic compounds. So we have CBGA is the 199 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:32,080 first compound that's made in the cascade of molecules and that's cannabinorolic acid. 200 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:41,360 And then the synthases, the enzymes that convert that to THCA, CBDA and CBCA are in the plant. 201 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:46,360 So that's what the plant makes is those acidic molecules. The plant doesn't actually make 202 00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:56,240 Delta 9 THC or CBD or CBC. Those acidic molecules have to be decarboxylated in order for those 203 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:04,400 to occur. The plant would not be in any sort of conditions where any of those molecules 204 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:13,440 would be decarboxylated in any respectable levels, right? So any plant that you grow, 205 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:19,200 if it's got, if it even the THC dominant plants, there's going to be very low levels 206 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:26,200 of Delta 9 THC because the plant doesn't make that. It takes an outside source heat or acid 207 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:34,640 or UV or something for that decarboxylation of that acidic molecule to happen. So that 208 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:46,360 being said, with the Farm Bill, what they're trying to do is address these intoxicating 209 00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:56,120 hemp derived cannabinoids. So some of them are naturally occurring. They naturally can 210 00:22:56,120 --> 00:23:01,720 decarboxylate or all you have to add is heat and they will naturally carboxylate or they 211 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:09,680 will degrade. Delta 8 and CBN are a natural degradance of Delta 9. So those might show 212 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:16,680 up in very small quantities. If the plant has been not stored well or in a jar on your 213 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,560 windowsill for a couple months, then you're going to start seeing those levels go up, but 214 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,920 the plant doesn't make those, but they are naturally occurring. The ones that are not, 215 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:34,600 things like THC, THCO, Delta 10, I can't even think of, there's like a whole bunch of them, 216 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:41,320 right? THCP is naturally occurring, but again, not in any kind of respectable amounts, very 217 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:49,880 micro quantities such that you wouldn't be able to grow enough hemp or to get any kind 218 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:58,440 of decent quantity of THCP to sell or to put into whatever. So that is also made in a lab 219 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:07,320 and what they do is they take CBD, like so they take the CBD, make it into CBD, extract, 220 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,840 do the extracts, make an isolate and they take the isolate and then they make it into other 221 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:16,040 things. So they're taking, the problem, there's a couple of different problems. CBD is an 222 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:22,480 approved drug by the FDA for Epidiolex. So what they're doing really is taking an approved 223 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:28,400 drug ingredient and making other things that are not approved, they're not regulated, they're 224 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:35,880 not anything. And when they do this, when a lot of people do this, not only are the compounds 225 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:41,680 that they're trying to make are made, but there's a lot of byproducts that are also 226 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,560 made. We don't even have names for them. We don't know what they are. They show up on 227 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,760 the mass spec chromatogram and you can see all these peaks, but we don't know what they 228 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:55,000 are. They're not even named yet. They're not described. We have no idea what they are. 229 00:24:55,000 --> 00:25:04,000 We don't know if they're safe or anything like that. And then also when people do these 230 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:12,960 chemical reactions, a lot of Delta 9 THC can be made. So these products can also have more 231 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:21,400 Delta 9 THC than they're supposed to in order to be hemp. And there are some companies that 232 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,640 are doing it right, but there's a whole lot of people that are just making it to make 233 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:37,560 money. And the thing about the Farm Bill, so the Farm Bill in 2018 clarified some language. 234 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:42,360 There was the interim rules and then the final rules which came out and were in effect 235 00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:53,600 in 2021. They clarified that hemp is anything below 0.3% total THC, not just Delta 9, but 236 00:25:53,600 --> 00:26:03,400 total THC. That and the Farm Bill only regulates up until that pre-harvest compliance test. 237 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,920 Then depending on which state you're in, you've got 15 to 30 day window to which you have to 238 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:15,200 harvest. So 30 days is the maximum amount of time that you have from that test that is 239 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:21,080 compliant to harvest that plant. And there's no THC dominant plant in the world that is 240 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:32,760 going to go from less than 0.3% total THC to 20% plus THC in 30 days. It just won't happen. 241 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:40,680 Like you won't be able to pass that compliance test anyway. So the issue is that now there's 242 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:49,040 a bunch of stuff that's called THC-A hemp, right? Because it's got very little Delta 243 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:55,880 9 THC and a lot of THC-A. But that's any cannabis plant that has is THC dominant. They're all 244 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,680 going to be like that because that's what the plant is until you heat it up and do things 245 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:12,120 with it. And those products, THC-A hemp is not regulated. It's not tested for pesticides 246 00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:16,320 because the only test that you have to do when you're growing hemp is that compliance test. 247 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:22,000 They don't care because hemp was never meant to be a consumable product. So you don't have 248 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,520 to do microbials. You don't have to do terpenes. You don't have to do heavy metals. You don't 249 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:30,440 have to do mycotoxins. You don't have to do any of those tests that you have to do if 250 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:39,840 you're in the regulated marijuana market, right? So where is all this THC-A hemp coming 251 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:45,800 from? Because it's not coming from the hemp cultivators. So it's either coming from illicit 252 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:53,360 grows or there's another theory out there that it's coming from failed marijuana cultivations. 253 00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:59,680 Like they failed pesticides or mycotoxins or molds and instead of destroying it, they're 254 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,920 like, well, we'll just slap a label on it and call it THC-A hemp because it's still below 255 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:14,120 0.3% delta 9, which is the CSA, the controlled substances act still says 0.3% delta 9 THC. 256 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:20,760 So technically it falls under hemp for the controlled substances act, which is what the 257 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:27,760 DEA enforces. If you read the CSA further down from where it gives the definition of 258 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:34,320 hemp, it does say hemp according to the USDA definition. And then you go to the USDA final 259 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:46,480 rules which say total THC. So I don't know. There's a lot of, there's gray area. And in 260 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:56,120 terms of making all of these compounds from CBD, the definition does say any part of the 261 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:06,360 plant growing or not with a less than delta 9 concentration of 0.3 plus all of its isomer 262 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:15,360 salts, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, derivatives. And technically those are all derivatives. 263 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:24,920 So lawyers are fighting about it. And there's people making money off of this and it could 264 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:31,440 all be solved if we just legalized cannabis. Why would we have all these weirdo things 265 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:39,960 for people to enjoy if it was, I think people would choose to plant over these weirdo Frankenstein 266 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:49,440 chemically lab made things. But a lot of states still don't have access to that, right? But 267 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:58,840 nonetheless, we have this and you know back in 2018, 2019, the market was flooded. Everybody 268 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,600 thought, oh, we can grow hemp. Growing hemp is going to be amazing. Let's grow lots of 269 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:09,600 hemp. Lots of farmers grew hemp. The market was flooded with CBD. And the price tanked 270 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:17,440 and then a lot of people were left holding a shit ton of CBD isolate and they couldn't 271 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:25,560 sell it. So I think it's really innovative that people were able to, you know, figure 272 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:33,120 out a way to do what they needed to do with the CBD they had converted into other things 273 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:40,600 that people could use. People really like it. I don't fault anybody for doing that. But 274 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:47,360 you know, here we are. And I don't think that the farm bill, so the farm bill has to be, 275 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:53,480 it's supposed to be revisited every four to five years. And so 2018 was the last revision. 276 00:30:53,480 --> 00:31:01,200 The final rules went into effect in 2021. But 2018, we're well overdue for a revisit 277 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,400 of the farm bill. And the farm bill is huge. It doesn't just cover hemp. It covers, you 278 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:12,960 know, everything. It's a very large piece of legislation. That being said, you know, 279 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:19,520 is it Mary Miller proposal that you ban everything, blah, blah, blah, people are freaking out. 280 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:26,320 We have to remember that the farm bill really only applies to cultivators. It's a USDA 281 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:34,400 thing. If you're manufacturing products post harvest, the farm bill doesn't really apply 282 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:41,400 to you. So putting that stuff in the farm bill doesn't, it's not going to affect cultivators 283 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:48,640 at all. They're still beholden to the less than 0.3% total THC they have since 2021. 284 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:55,800 So everybody who's freaking out about it is on the other side of the cultivation, on the 285 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:01,760 other side of harvest. So I don't know what's going to happen with that. But people seem 286 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:08,880 to forget that. Yeah, there's, there's a lot of you had, you had alluded to look like 287 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:17,840 the THCA for example. I myself buying product when I, when I first started getting, because 288 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,480 we do hemp extracts, we do like CBD, CBD, and I say hemp extracts, I mean, by definition 289 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:31,760 of the current word hemp, which is 0.3, because it's basically just a made up word for cannabis 290 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:39,440 in relation to our laws. But so we were doing a lot of those products when it first started 291 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:49,320 to get out. And initially we had found that some of the THCA did have some mold on it. 292 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:55,760 But we weren't, we had just thought, we had just thought of that as like a one time something 293 00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:04,400 like really messed up happened, like specifically isolated incident to us. It wasn't, it was 294 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:09,280 something that had happened to multiple companies. It was something that, so you are, you are 295 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:17,200 right. That is not, that's not something to be taken lightly or, you know, to mess around 296 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:23,520 with under that would be really messed up. And that's what was going on. That's very 297 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:33,440 interesting. Yeah. And, you know, it's awesome that, you know, you can get THCA flower in 298 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:40,280 states where cannabis is not legal. You know, I have a friend who lives in Texas, for example, 299 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,160 and she's like, I can't get, I can't, I can't get it anyway. She's like, I can't wear my 300 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,800 own, and I don't want to bring it across state lines. Like, I don't know where to, I need 301 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:54,920 cannabis and I don't know where to get it. And I'm like, babe, THCA hemp is, is what 302 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,760 you're looking for. That's just weed. It's just weed. It's just weed. Go buy that. And 303 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,440 she's like, you know, she didn't, she, she doesn't know a lot about cannabis. She just 304 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:08,960 knows that she needs it all day, every day to function. She's got pretty severe ADHD, 305 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,880 among other things. But yeah, she was like, dude, this is totally just weed. I'm like, 306 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:22,680 I know, it's totally just weed. Totally. Just totally is just. It totally is just weed. 307 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:27,960 You know, but, but buyer beware, right? So if you're using it for medicine, or if you 308 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,800 are immunocompromised or whatever the case, you do need to be careful of these products 309 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,920 because they are unregulated. We don't know where they came from. They haven't been through 310 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:45,400 the rigorous testing requirements that the adult use and medical use industries are, 311 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:52,640 are beholden to. Maybe there are some companies that are doing full panel tests, but they 312 00:34:52,640 --> 00:35:00,560 don't have to. And also, there are all kinds of COAs that are just fudged or, you know, 313 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:07,240 made up or not for that product, because these are, again, the track and trace system isn't 314 00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:13,000 there anymore. Not that that track and track. If the track and trace system actually worked, 315 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:19,400 we wouldn't, you know, have all of this going on. But, and, you know, I mean, it's, we don't 316 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:26,720 need more regulations. We just need the regulations to be enforced. You know, it seems like the 317 00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:32,720 regulators, they got one job and that's to regulate and nothing, it seems, is being 318 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:38,680 regulated. We've got THC inflation. We've got off the shelf testing flower that's failing 319 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:46,080 mold and yeast and pesticides and heavy like, what are the regulators doing? Why did they 320 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,800 come up? Why did they spend all this time coming up with all these rules if they're 321 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,480 not actually going to enforce them and make sure that people are putting out safe products? 322 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:59,440 I don't know. I don't get it. Maybe they need to hire me. Yes. Yes. Exactly what they need 323 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:05,360 to do. Consistency would be nice. Consistency is the key of the, you know, we just all need 324 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,960 to really like just know what we're working with at this point and move forward from that. 325 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:14,160 And it would be nice to just kind of bypass all that and let's just legalize it. And it 326 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:21,920 would make things a hell of a lot easier, especially for both of us. It would make things 327 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:28,000 a lot easier for both of us. But I don't want us to get cut off from our, our meeting today 328 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,560 or chat today. I like your earrings, by the way. I didn't notice what they were. Oh, 329 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:39,280 oh yeah, these are fantastic. Yeah, these are my little black dress of my cannabis earrings. 330 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:44,720 They're from a company called High on Plants, which is Alice Moon. She's pretty well known 331 00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:48,960 in the cannabis community, but she just started this company, I don't know, like a year ago. 332 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:54,760 I have every single color they put out. And they even, they did a tie dye one for a Pride 333 00:36:54,760 --> 00:37:01,320 Month. And then I suggested they do a leopard print one. And they did. And they are fricking 334 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:06,760 awesome. So if you want their leather, their leather, which is really cool, because a lot 335 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:11,280 of the metal ones are super pokey and not super comfortable, especially if you end up 336 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,040 eating them like taking a nap and then you end up with like your holes in your face, but 337 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:22,680 they're leather. So they're really soft. And I love them. I get a lot of compliments. Highly 338 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,960 recommend looking them up. Maybe not for you, but if you know any females in your life that 339 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,000 like cannabis jewelry, High on Plants is the name of the company. 340 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:37,360 Thank you. High on Plants. People will definitely hear that on the podcast. So check that website. 341 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:42,080 I'm going to put your website here in the description. And we're going to have to schedule 342 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:48,320 another talk soon. I enjoy talking with you. I definitely learn things when I talk with 343 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:55,520 you helps me out. And yeah, we could do a part two, we could even do a whole series. 344 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,760 We should. We should probably do really well, actually. 345 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:05,080 Well, I'd be happy to. I love, I love, I love talking about weed is my favorite thing to 346 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,640 do. And I have a lot to say in case you didn't notice. So 347 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:15,760 all right, I appreciate everybody for listening today. This is a prerecorded episode. Check 348 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:25,400 in and the next 48 hours, I'll have another podcast episode available on Facebook live. 349 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:34,240 So go to only the best herbs podcast community and store. Join our community. You'll see 350 00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:40,840 the lives posted there. You can follow me. You'll definitely see the lives posted there. 351 00:38:40,840 --> 00:39:07,880 And yeah, I appreciate everybody. Talk soon.