1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,000 If you ain't trying to get well, you're in the wrong place. 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:09,000 You're listening to Only the Best Herbs with Ryan Boulda. 3 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:22,000 Another day, another podcast. How's everyone doing today? Hope you're doing good. 4 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:29,000 I have my interview with Edward Grand. I've been meaning to get this edited. 5 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:38,000 I have had some malfunctioning happening with my podcasting storage. 6 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:44,000 I lost a bunch of audio and some new audio that I was working on, so I've kind of been really annoyed. 7 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:48,000 We're going to move past that with this interview today. 8 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:53,000 Edward Grand on a positive note. Really awesome individual. 9 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,000 Go check out sporeswaps.com. 10 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,000 Reach out to him. He's on Facebook. 11 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:05,000 Edward Grand, his profile picture, kind of looks like the underneath of a mushroom. 12 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:10,000 He's a mycologist. Hope you guys enjoy this. 13 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:15,000 Before we get started, a word from our sponsors, Searchin's LLC. 14 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:20,000 If you ain't feeling 100% like yourself, get in contact with us. 15 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:28,000 We have hemp extract, CBD products, kinogenetics, nutrients, glass pipes, and more. 16 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,000 Be a surgeon today and treat yourself to better health. 17 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,000 I mean, what would you tell you about my whole life or what I'm doing now? 18 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:42,000 I mean, sure. If you got time for it, I'm down for it. I love stories. 19 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,000 I'm sure you got it. You said you used to live in Michigan, right? 20 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:51,000 Yeah, I'm originally from Michigan and then I lived there until I was like 26. 21 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,000 And then I went to graduate school in Tennessee. 22 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:59,000 So then I was there for four years and then I came directly to Thailand after that. 23 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:07,000 I had a job lined up already, like maybe about a year, almost before I finished my PhD. 24 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:13,000 So I just pretty much came straight into a job here and I thought maybe I was going to stay here for a year or two. 25 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:18,000 And that turned into like two years. And then I got another job and that turned into like five years. 26 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:22,000 And then like now it's like almost 20 years later. 27 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,000 I've lived here for like 19 and a half years. 28 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,000 Yeah, something like that. 29 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:37,000 So I've, it's kind of funny I've lived more, I've lived longer time outside of America for the night. 30 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:43,000 And then I did in America for most of it, for my adult life. 31 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:48,000 So yeah, it's a little bit weird. I don't think it's that weird, but I guess it is a little bit weird. 32 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:54,000 I don't know if I consider myself an ex-pan or whatever, but I guess at this point I kind of am. 33 00:02:54,000 --> 00:03:01,000 I didn't really have anything to go back to and like, I don't know, you know, mom and dad did and stuff like that. 34 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:07,000 I don't really have any family, so it was pretty much just like no reason to go back. 35 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:14,000 Right, you know, you're good. But I mean, tell me, tell me more because you, I know you're in the microbial community, right? 36 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:20,000 How exactly, how exactly do those connect? 37 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:30,000 So basically, when I, when I finished my PhD, what I did my PhD as is what, what they would call systematics. 38 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:39,000 It's where I basically took DNA sequences and morphology and what we call the biological species concepts basically mating. 39 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:46,000 And I tried to merge those into one sort of cohesive kind of idea about the genus that I was studying, which is Luntinus. 40 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:54,000 So it's like shiitake mushrooms used to be in them in that genus, but I should, I say them because it's multiple dinner now. 41 00:03:54,000 --> 00:04:01,000 And every time somebody puts out a new DNA sequence, they sort of resurrect or make a new genus or switch things around. 42 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:10,000 So I don't know, I grew up like hunting mushrooms in Michigan and that was like kind of where my passion lie. 43 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:25,000 But then, you know, life and school, I studied to be a chemical, well, I did finish my engineering degree at U of M, but it seems so like boring at the time that I didn't really want to like, I don't know, I just didn't really want to be an engineer. 44 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:30,000 I know the money was good and everything, but I had friends that had already started working. 45 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:38,000 And I was working in a lab. So, so how it kind of happens is I worked in a medical research lab for three years, basically because I wanted to stay in Ann Arbor. 46 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:46,000 And then I was like, I don't know, it was pretty, I wouldn't say boring, but it was like, wasn't really what I was passionate about it. 47 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,000 I worked for a stomach doctor, like a gastroenterologist. 48 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:56,000 So it was like not really, you know, my thing, we got to do lots and lots of cool experiments and he was quite well funded. 49 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:09,000 So I learned how to do all kinds of weird stuff like immunoblots and northern blotting and southern blotting and PCR and you know, reverse transcriptase, blah, blah, blah, and like all this stuff. 50 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:15,000 And I figured there must be a way that I could apply that stuff to mushrooms. 51 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:19,000 And so I was literally sitting at work one day on a Friday like bored. 52 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:24,000 And I just did like a Google search, which would have been like Netscape then I think. 53 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:31,000 And I just like typed in something like studying mushrooms or something like that and it popped up a bunch of people. 54 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:39,000 And I started emailing people and within like a day I was communicating quite frequently with a guy in Tennessee. 55 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:44,000 And that was like my advisor, he became my advisor for my PhD. 56 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:53,000 So I kind of skipped the master's thing and I went straight into a PhD because it's quite common now in science to not do the master's degree. 57 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:59,000 So I pretty much like jumped head first into like, wow, like now I'm getting a PhD in mushrooms. 58 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:04,000 And I had no idea for like the first year and a half or so I had no idea what I wanted to study. 59 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:12,000 I mean, obviously I would like to, you know, study salacity, but like that was not really an option 20 years ago. 60 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:18,000 And so I picked Lentinus, which is another group of, you know, genus of mushrooms that has lots of edibles. 61 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:29,000 I figured I could apply, make the whole like edible thing, maybe give that a go, you know, that's back what even 20 years ago everybody and their brother was like opening a gourmet mushroom farm. 62 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:40,000 And I didn't really want to be like a farmer farmer, you know, like, you know, some there and like learning about harvest schedule and all that, but that's kind of what I inevitably became. 63 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:51,000 So yeah, fast forward now I started working in academia here, and then basically like that has run its course and so now I'm pretty much just like a full time mushroom farmer. 64 00:06:51,000 --> 00:07:05,000 But I'm really into the like the breeding aspects of it like I'm really, really, because I have a quite diverse background, I think I bring like a whole maybe like a little bit of a different way of looking at it. 65 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:27,000 You know, I'm your typical home cultivator, but I add like layers onto it that the average person probably wouldn't because of my background and I'm quite familiar with like DNA sequencing and all these like programs and stuff where you basically can put together, you know, phylogenies and what they call them or trees based on DNA sequences and things like that. 66 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:41,000 Like a lineage. Yeah, yeah, basically the lineage here and how the how the species are related to each other. So when you study like, you know what they call like some kind of cryptic organisms like bosses and burns and fungicide. 67 00:07:41,000 --> 00:08:10,000 There's not a whole lot of criteria like morphological characters that are used to separate them. Well, there are microscopic details, but it's a little bit hard when you get to species that are very, very closely related. You have to think about how they date with each other and how basically you know these things in the natural world like yeah how they evolved and how they how they exist today and like what makes them this species or that species. 68 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:30,000 Or you know a different species. And so I tried to I'm trying to like maybe bringing a little bit of that to the home cultivation world, maybe like, you know, give people ideas that might maybe make them a little more interested in, you know, just like, oh, I want to grow mushrooms. 69 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:37,000 So maybe try to get, I don't know, peak a little bit more of an interest in the academic aspects of it. 70 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:43,000 Yeah, it's really right now for the. 71 00:08:43,000 --> 00:09:02,000 I mean, now pretty much my goal is just to like try to get people to grow mushrooms and grow them well and understand the process a little bit better. And maybe if they can, you know, I think a little bit interested in it, maybe they'll decide to pursue no more academic interest, maybe they'll go back to school or finish school or whatever. 72 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:08,000 Maybe they'll just read a paper, you know, come up with some new technique or maybe some new ideas. 73 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:21,000 So yeah, I just almost thinking myself as sort of like a catalyst for some of these things that like put ideas, you know, plant seeds or spores in people's heads so that maybe they'll have a little bit more of a, you know, an interest. 74 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:34,000 Maybe, yeah, maybe someday, you know, they might be the next greatest, you know, one of these fungal rouses that we all, you know, see on the movies and the YouTube videos and whatnot. 75 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,000 I don't really have much of a plan to be honest. 76 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:49,000 I just sort of take it every day as it comes and just try to keep myself entertained and still interested, which is not that hard when you get into the reading and. 77 00:09:49,000 --> 00:10:04,000 And the amount of genetics that's out there these days and it's what people have come up with and trying to make your own new ones, there's just like there's literally like no end to the amount of things that you can do. 78 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:11,000 I've noticed, I've noticed, because you mentioned that you're you like doing. 79 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:20,000 Like the breeding aspect of it right and that's that's a hot topic, especially in these communities. 80 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:27,000 In all, you know, in all, you know, the fungal groups and whatnot you're talking about shiitake right. 81 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,000 Have you ever thought of. 82 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,000 I don't know how to say this like crossing. 83 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:47,000 I don't know really how you'd call them like different classes of mushrooms together like let's say a shiitake and then you can, you know, you can cross that with, I don't know, a different straight of mushroom. 84 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:54,000 I mean, is that I mean, are things like that possible like are you going to, you know, just just because. 85 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,000 Yes, it's all possible. 86 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:05,000 There's limitations. I mean, I hate to use analogies and other things, but it's like if you want to cross a cat with a dog, it's not going to happen. 87 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:11,000 If you want to cross like an oyster mushroom with a magic mushroom, it's not going to happen. 88 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:12,000 Right. 89 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,000 There's limits to the things you can do. 90 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:19,000 I mean, this isn't like, you know, it's not the kind of thing you just mix them up in a blender and throw them in. 91 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,000 It's there's a lot of things you need to consider. 92 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:29,000 I mean, there's simple things like, you know, I mean, if they're so distantly related, it'd be like humans trying to make with chimpanzees. 93 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:35,000 You know, we're pretty close, but as far as I know, like there have been some attempts to do that. 94 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:43,000 But then you get into weird things like there's just simple chromosome numbers like humans and chimpanzees have different numbers of chromosomes. 95 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:47,000 So if you were to successfully make them, you have to overcome a lot of barriers. 96 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,000 There's biochemical barriers. 97 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:55,000 There's just simple like physical barriers like these two species have different numbers of chromosomes. 98 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,000 And then there's the technical aspects of it. 99 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,000 A lot of people, they're called inter specific hybrids. 100 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,000 So inter like between two species. 101 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,000 So the holy grail and like, oh, my apologies. 102 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:13,000 Take the pantyolis, which are the kind of, I don't know, people have different names for them. 103 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,000 I don't even know what the common names are formed. 104 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:25,000 To be honest, like the grass lovers, there's a genius called pantyolis that everybody wants to cross a pantyolis, which generally are stronger with like a cubensis, 105 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,000 which is the one that people typically grow, you know, in their closet. 106 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,000 So we've got the cubensis aspect. 107 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:35,000 It's pretty, it's fairly pretty well understood how to grow them. 108 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,000 But people want to, of course, increase the potency. 109 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:40,000 So they want to make inter specific. 110 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:49,000 If you go on any of the mushroom boards or forums or discords or whatever, that's, it's a perennial topic. 111 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:55,000 I started doing this kind of stuff like literally like 30 years ago when I was in college. 112 00:12:55,000 --> 00:13:01,000 And this same topics that people were talking about 30 years ago, they're still talking about them. 113 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:06,000 There's just a simple thing like you can't cross a cat and a dog, right? 114 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:16,000 So if you're looking at mushrooms, I mean, just the fact like a cat, the dog or mammals, but if you got two mushrooms, they can be so distantly related. 115 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:22,000 It's again, the same thing like mammals, like you can't make like a horse with a cat or a dog with a cat. 116 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:29,000 And so the same thing, I think people try to mistakenly sort of apply this idea that well, they're all mushrooms. 117 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,000 They should just like sort of mix with each other. 118 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,000 But that is not the case. 119 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,000 It's a good analogy. 120 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,000 Yeah. 121 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,000 That's about it. 122 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:49,000 I mean, there's like lots of other more like technical and scientific reasons, but that's the basic idea when we call species species because they're a reproductively isolated group. 123 00:13:49,000 --> 00:14:00,000 So I mean, the basis for what's called the biological species concept is that essentially all the members of that, you know, that species are fully compatible with each other. 124 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,000 Right. 125 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:09,000 So I don't know if it's an Aboriginal from Australia, you know, maybe a Native American or European or someone from Africa. 126 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:18,000 Like we all know that you can make fully, right, almost sapiens like all almost sapiens can make and produce fertile offspring. 127 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,000 So there's another little caveat there. 128 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:28,000 If you made something, so if you could make an interspecific hybrid, these are those would technically be called hybrids because they're two species. 129 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:36,000 So if you could do that, there's a second problem you need to basically have that organism be reproductive. 130 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:42,000 So I mean, you can make like say for the classic example again is like a horse and a donkey. 131 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,000 Right. 132 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,000 Horse and a donkey, they're both separate species, but you make them together and you get a mule. 133 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,000 Right. 134 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,000 But you can't make more mules from mules. 135 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,000 Right. 136 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,000 Mule you need a horse and a donkey. 137 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:58,000 Like so that's the kind of more common. 138 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:02,000 I mean, most people know that, you know, that, you know, you can't make more mules from mules. 139 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,000 They're not reproducible. 140 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,000 Like you have a horse and a donkey. 141 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:13,000 So that's another little kind of problem is that like if you are successful making it. 142 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:23,000 So they were calling a pan cube hybrid, an interspecific cross or in that case it would be an intergeneric cross because they're two different genera. 143 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,000 So if you could do that, you would be very, very, very famous. 144 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:41,000 In fact, if you could do that, you would probably get like a Nobel Prize if you published and and you're documenting your results because it's very uncommon in any biological system to have intergeneric process. 145 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:47,000 Again, that would be kind of back to like, you know, chimpanzees and humans were actually two different genera. 146 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:48,000 Right. 147 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,000 What is it? 148 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:54,000 I forgot the chimpanzees or the bonobos or whatever. I forgot what the the genus is for chimpanzees. 149 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,000 You're way smarter than me. 150 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,000 Yeah, well, I've got different background. 151 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,000 Right. 152 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,000 It doesn't mean I'm smarter. 153 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,000 You've done a lot of research. 154 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:13,000 It's kind of funny that you say that because this is actually sometimes I get, I get this from, I'm not smarter than you. 155 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,000 I just study different things. 156 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,000 Right. 157 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,000 For sure. 158 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:22,000 I'm sure you do know how to do lots and lots of stuff that I have no clue about. 159 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:39,000 It's, it's kind of funny that you mentioned that because like a lot of people in the sort of home cultivator community, they have like what I would call a chip on their shoulder because maybe they're not as educated as I am. 160 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:43,000 And they're not like maybe in a position to be able to do some of the things I do. 161 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,000 Like, you know, they've got wife, kids and debts. 162 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:52,000 I'm a single guy who's pretty much like, can do whatever I want. 163 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,000 A bachelor? 164 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,000 Yeah. 165 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,000 So, so I don't have the limitations that some people do. 166 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:04,000 So I can literally, I can study fungi and play with fungi like 20 hours a day if I wanted to. 167 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,000 Like here at the 11 o'clock at night, well, I'm at 30 now. 168 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:15,000 I mean, I already put in like an eight hour day, but after I get up here with you, I'm literally going to go like play with my mushrooms and make spawn. 169 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,000 I was pressure cooking some stuff earlier. 170 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,000 So my, my work day after this, I'll just, and I love it. 171 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:22,000 That's the thing. 172 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,000 I'll stay up till four or five in the morning doing my fungal stuff. 173 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:31,000 I'm going to like subculture some things, transfer some, you know, put some spores on plates, things like that. 174 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,000 And that for me is like entertainment. 175 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:42,000 Like I would rather be playing with my mushrooms and watching some dumbass Netflix series, you know, that's like what I do. 176 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:50,000 What? It's a lot of the people, this is something that when I was on a lot of podcasts with a guy called Michael geeky. 177 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:56,000 And we haven't kind of, we tried introducing some of these more, more detailed, like scientific ideas. 178 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:05,000 And I don't, I really wish people would get, I wish they would like forget about the education life. 179 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:15,000 Like, I, like it's literally to the point now I don't tell people I have the education that I do because they immediately get a complex life. 180 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:24,000 So it's something that if I, if I were to meet you on this three, like you would never know that I have a PhD because I simply wouldn't tell you. 181 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:25,000 Right. 182 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:31,000 I figured that was appropriate for the podcast, but if it's not, you can delete that part. 183 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,000 I don't, I don't, I don't want to make it. 184 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,000 It's not like pretentious. 185 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:45,000 They're like, I have like zero ego and pretentiousness, but even when I try to like enforce that idea of people, I don't know, there's always that little thing on their shoulder. 186 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,000 I don't know what it is. 187 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,000 That's why I bring it up. 188 00:18:49,000 --> 00:19:02,000 That's why I bring it up because a lot of there is a lot of that going on people who think they're like not, I wouldn't say smarter, but you know, have that. 189 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,000 Uh, 190 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:12,000 seniority, I guess, seniority, I guess would be a better word to kind of throw their weight around a little bit and maybe get what they want. 191 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:17,000 And, and you know what, that's, that's, uh, obviously respectable. 192 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,000 That's obviously going to happen, right? 193 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:31,000 But with, with the community being about like love and like passing around genetics and sharing and it's just, it just seems very counterintuitive to me. 194 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:39,000 You know, for, for that to be, for that to be around like talking with you, I get a completely different feel. 195 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:44,000 You're, you're, uh, going to go play with mushrooms at four o'clock in the morning. 196 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:53,000 You know, that's completely different than your, you know, your traditional professional grower cultivator, for example. 197 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:58,000 You have a passion for it, you know, what's a project that you're working on right now? 198 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:09,000 Yeah, I just want to think about that is like, I'm well familiar with that because those people when I came in about two and a half years ago, like I took kind of a hiatus for about 15 or 20 years. 199 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,000 I had to deal with those people. 200 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:25,000 I know, I mean, I could tell you by name that if there's like five people that should be eliminated from the mushroom community, like they all hate me because I've made an effort to actually the gatekeepers. 201 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:36,000 Like I've made an effort and almost made it a goal of my life now to basically educate people through my YouTube and through my live streams and through answering questions. 202 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:41,000 And those people that want to be the gatekeepers, they don't like that. 203 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,000 Right. 204 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,000 Because as you said, they make money off of their little secrets. 205 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:52,000 And so when I started to like breathe mushrooms and I started making videos about how simple it is to do it. 206 00:20:52,000 --> 00:21:01,000 I got a huge amount of black and kickback from those people who were not happy about me, you know, giving out their secrets. 207 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:12,000 And I do, I mean, I've worked in academia for 20 years, believe me, I'm very, very familiar with the way academics are their egos and their pretentiousness. 208 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,000 I am very, very familiar with that. 209 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:25,000 And that's the problem is when you when you get labeled like, oh, you're an academic or you've got all this fancy education, people like shut down. 210 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:35,000 It's like I used to teach chemistry and when I told people I taught chemistry, 99% of the time the very first thing they say is, oh, I hate chemistry. 211 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,000 So I'm like, well, I don't know. 212 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:45,000 Thank you. Like that my my profession, like you the first thing like you tell me is how you hate it. 213 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:52,000 It's like, oh, if you work in a grocery store, you know, and somebody's like, oh, I hate groceries. 214 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,000 Yeah, funny. 215 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,000 I'm like so familiar with that pretentiousness. 216 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,000 That's why I'm leaving academia. 217 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:06,000 I've been in academia for about 20 years and that's particularly why I'm leaving academia because I just don't want to deal with that. 218 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:14,000 The levels of egos and pretentiousness and it's even worse here because like it's very age like dependent. 219 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,000 Like if you're younger or older than someone, they treat you very different. 220 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,000 And I look kind of young. 221 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:31,000 So I often run into this case of like, like people, especially the other like most type people, they look at you and they judge you based on how old you look immediately. 222 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:37,000 So if you're older, they have a particular word they call you P and if you're younger, they call you long. 223 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:42,000 And it's like they immediately want to know how to address you. 224 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:51,000 And if you are younger than them, they're going to treat you a certain way and it goes with the, you know, your education and your job and all that kind of stuff. 225 00:22:51,000 --> 00:23:00,000 It's very, I wouldn't call it like a caste system, but there's very defined roles, whether you're the older one or the younger one, and they're going to treat you appropriately. 226 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:05,000 Or inappropriately depending on the situation. 227 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,000 I got my hair cut the other day. It's all messed up back there. 228 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,000 You do look younger. 229 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,000 I mean, you're looking the mirror. 230 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,000 Like this is the only time I see myself like is there any podcasts? 231 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,000 I'm looking at the reflection of my TV. 232 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,000 No man, you do look young. You do look young. 233 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:28,000 So how do you, how do you fit like clearly you're white, you're American, right? 234 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,000 There's different, obviously, like you're talking about, there's cultural differences. 235 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:45,000 How, what, how are the, how are the laws and stuff in Thailand as far as microbial work and, you know, just laws in general with Psylocybe and perhaps or the Amorita or anything really? 236 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,000 Yeah, well, I don't really know to be honest. 237 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,000 There's certain like gray areas. 238 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:57,000 And so a lot of some people occasionally get busted, but it's usually because they're doing other stuff. 239 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:02,000 They like legalized cannabis or whatever. I don't know what words we can use. 240 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,000 Can we, you can do any word you want. 241 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,000 Really sense. 242 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,000 Okay. 243 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,000 So people are very sensitive about, because they'll get like demonetized or whatever on YouTube. 244 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,000 So the cannabis was legalized here. 245 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:19,000 It was like June of last year, May or June of last year. 246 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,000 So it's been fully legal like last year. 247 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,000 It's been fully legal for over a year and a half now. 248 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:33,000 The psilocybin laws, it's a little bit, it's one of those things they just like they have higher priorities. 249 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:41,000 The big thing like in the U S they're mostly the muramboids, they're mostly it's math and the opioids, opiates, opioids. 250 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,000 That's their big problem. 251 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:53,000 So they're like, unless you're doing, I mean, unless you're standing out front, you know, with a stand selling drugs or whatever, they're not going to really bother you. 252 00:24:53,000 --> 00:25:01,000 It's like, I mean, that being said, you know, if you piss off somebody, like, you know, we were just talking about this earlier. 253 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:08,000 It's like, you know, that you got an ex or some friend or ex employees or somebody, maybe it's a business competitor. 254 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,000 Now those are the kind of people that might, you know, wrap you out. 255 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:22,000 Like it's like, I have my farm where I do all my growing, like nobody, like literally nobody has ever been to this location. 256 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:31,000 I have to keep it that way because even friends who want to come see the operation, it's like, I'm sorry, you're never going to see it. 257 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:43,000 You can look at the pictures I showed off the show on social media, you can watch my YouTube videos, but you are never physically going to be at my farm, which makes it a little bit lonely sometimes. 258 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,000 But yeah, it's the smart business move. 259 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,000 It's the smartest thing you could probably do. 260 00:25:49,000 --> 00:26:02,000 Yeah, people, you know, I've been in this kind of like culture for a long time, there was a teenager and I see other people, the things they do and the mistakes they make and they trust the wrong people. 261 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:07,000 Yeah, you know, somebody is your friend today might be your enemy next week. 262 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,000 And that's going to be a problem. 263 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,000 I mean, I had a classic example. 264 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,000 We had a, this back in, gosh, it must have been like 94 or something. 265 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:28,000 We had a pretty big weed grow in our basement and my room, we had kept it under secrecy for a while and my roommate, he saw me going down to water the plants one time and he followed me. 266 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:35,000 And then the next day he told one person, that person told five people, you know, it's that. 267 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:44,000 So then the whole of Ann Arbor pretty much do and literally like this was a before social media and mobile phones like literally a couple hours later we had people coming in and out of the house. 268 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,000 People coming and asking if they could get some weed. 269 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,000 And it was like a couple hours later. 270 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,000 Well, we ripped the whole thing down. 271 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:59,000 It was me and my buddy, we had several thousand dollars invested in lights and you know, irrigation and all this kind of stuff. 272 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,000 We just basically ripped it all down. 273 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,000 And it was getting one of those things. 274 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,000 My roommate was trying to impress a girl. 275 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,000 So he was like, oh, you want it wasn't even his grow. 276 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:17,000 And so he took her down there and thought he was going to get laid or whatever and it just turned into this. 277 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:28,000 So after that, I've had other instances my roommate, his another roommate, his brother-in-law was an ex cop and like he basically robbed me one time. 278 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:35,000 And so after this happened a few times, you get really, really super sensitive about who you trust. 279 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,000 And they tell certain things. 280 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:44,000 Yeah. And I, you know, I live in Thailand, so I'm not really too worried about like the US authorities. 281 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,000 I mean, I suppose they could, but they're such a low priority here. 282 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:54,000 It's again, one of those things I don't really make any money selling stuff like I sell spores. 283 00:27:54,000 --> 00:28:04,000 So like there's like, I don't walk down around a tour there is like, you know, now if you're on a beach in one of the holiday places and you walk in with a backpack with a half pound. 284 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,000 Or something in there, you're going to have a problem, right? 285 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:15,000 But if you do what I do, and I just basically, I mean, my fruit never goes anywhere. 286 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:20,000 All I do is I harvest the spores and I, you know, wrap them up and people buy them off my website. 287 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:24,000 The website, it's a bunch of people on there. 288 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,000 Spore swaps it. And yeah, then that's all I really do. 289 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:33,000 Like I'm not selling, I'm not moving weight, you know, I'm just basically like selling spores. 290 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,000 So there's like, swarswap.com. 291 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,000 Yeah. 292 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,000 Okay. 293 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:48,000 Make sure with a piece or swaps, like for the P it used to be there's other, you know, how people try to change it a little bit. 294 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,000 It's for swaps.com. 295 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,000 Gotcha. 296 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,000 Yeah, they might cut us off here. 297 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,000 Zoom might cut us off here here in a moment. 298 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,000 But oh, that's the I forgot about that. 299 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,000 I can't wait to. 300 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,000 Yeah, I've been using Streamyard. 301 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,000 It works really, really well. 302 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,000 It's surprising how easy it is. 303 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:17,000 I probably, I probably having issues because I'm on the Z Fold probably. 304 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:22,000 If and when we do this again, because I'd love to talk to you again, and pick your brain and do some stuff. 305 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:28,000 If you ever have time, you know, you know, what we have right now, 306 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:34,000 what we have like 30, 30 minutes trimmed down to like 25 probably added some stuff. 307 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:39,000 So I mean, we got a lot of good, we got a lot of good information in there. 308 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:44,000 I'm going to send you, I'm going to send you a link. 309 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:57,000 If you want to say anything like real quick to the audience, you know, like, hey, you know, my name's Ed, you know, I'm here for sportswaps.com or, you know, whatever. 310 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,000 You know, if you want to add anything real quick, because I can trim it and throw it in the front. 311 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,000 You know, yeah, sure. 312 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,000 I encourage people to go check out my YouTube channel too. 313 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,000 There's an incredible amount of information on there. 314 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,000 It's not well edited because I'm not really like an editing guy. 315 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,000 So they're just like kind of one off where it's just me doing a technique. 316 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,000 And I just moved into, I just kind of reset up my lab. 317 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,000 So I'm going to just, I'm going to be pumping out videos. 318 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,000 But I did get a strike one time. 319 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:28,000 So I eased back. 320 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,000 I was showing fruit and they gave me a warning or a strike. 321 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,000 And so I really, really had to be careful. 322 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,000 But I've got like backups of that too. 323 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,000 And obviously have everything saved locally. 324 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,000 But yeah, check out the sites sportswaps.com. 325 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,000 That is where I don't even know. 326 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,000 I must have 150, 200 list things on there. 327 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,000 There's other vendors on there now. 328 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,000 So I'm just having like a vendor there. 329 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,000 I don't really have any interest in like running my own website. 330 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,000 It just seems like a major pain in the neck and like, 331 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:02,000 I'm really, really happy sportswaps is that they treated me well. 332 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,000 There's a good group of people over there. 333 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,000 And yeah, my YouTube videos and my Facebook page. 334 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:13,000 I do Instagram a little bit, but I can't, there's so much social media now. 335 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:18,000 I can't really concentrate on, I just concentrate based on Facebook and YouTube. 336 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,000 But if people want to contact me, yeah, I mean, I'm on Instagram. 337 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,000 Just search for my name. 338 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,000 I don't have any aliases or anything like this is my real name. 339 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:31,000 So if we don't know, like you want to go check out my PhD, you know, it's online. 340 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,000 It's the university's website. 341 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,000 I'm very, very boring for most people, but yeah, this is my real name. 342 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,000 So I think you're kind of a little bit of a sponge. 343 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:46,000 And you know, if you search YouTube, I'm going to really, really amp the YouTube up this year. 344 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:51,000 And I just want to, I just want more people to basically know how to grow mushrooms. 345 00:31:51,000 --> 00:32:02,000 That I have like one purpose in that is to teach people who might need medicine or maybe they just want to hobby, or maybe they're just bored, or maybe they just want to get high. 346 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,000 Nothing wrong with that. 347 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,000 Right. 348 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,000 Like, you know, that's, that's, you know, maybe you just want to go enjoy a concert a little more. 349 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,000 I'm all for that. 350 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:19,000 And if people want to get in contact with me, just I'm, I spend a lot of time just communicating with people on a daily basis. 351 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:23,000 To be honest, Facebook Messenger is probably the easiest way. 352 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:29,000 I'm on the other ones, but it's a lot easier just to, I got to use Facebook for other stuff. 353 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,000 So, but yeah, get out there, get some spores and that's the thing. 354 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:42,000 So I, my love of this is kind of morphed into like, I started selling spores so I could have money to buy more spores. 355 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,000 But now that was like two and a half, maybe a year and a half, two years ago. 356 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,000 Now it's turned into like, while people enjoy growing new stuff. 357 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,000 So my idea is to just put it out there. 358 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,000 You know, it's 15 bucks for a set of swabs. 359 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,000 Not too much. 360 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,000 I send them from Thailand. 361 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,000 It takes about three or four weeks to get to America, but they always arrive. 362 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,000 Just got to be a little more patient. 363 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,000 I mean, there's sites that'll say, oh, we'll get them out in 24 hours. 364 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,000 I just can't do that. 365 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,000 I'm literally on the other side of the world, but they always arrive. 366 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:17,000 A little white like reading card and like nobody's the wiser. 367 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:22,000 But yeah, I might start doing like, like liquid cultures, which have different names. 368 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,000 I might start doing that after maybe a couple more months. 369 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,000 Oh yeah, if anybody wants to contact me, man, I'm all over. 370 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,000 That's the thing. 371 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:35,000 People don't need to think of me as like, I'm not this pretentious like, you know, person. 372 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,000 I don't care. 373 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:41,000 I mean, out there in the world, there's people that need help and I want to help them. 374 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,000 Yeah. 375 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:47,000 And any kind of questions they have is more than happy to talk to people. 376 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:54,000 You're exactly the type of person literally that you fit this podcast really well because 377 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,000 you do what you do. 378 00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:01,000 You're really good at it and you're really passionate about it and you like helping people. 379 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:07,000 And that's, that is based, that is the core of this, of this podcast. 380 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:14,000 So I, I really deeply appreciate you taking the time to, to come out, you know, to come 381 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,000 on this podcast and talk about, you know, your love of mushrooms. 382 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:22,000 Because I have a lot of people who have said mushrooms have changed their life, not even 383 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:30,000 just eating them, the whole process of growing them, you know, multiple people. 384 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,000 Yeah. 385 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,000 It's therapeutic of itself. 386 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,000 And I think it helps people maybe organize their thoughts too. 387 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,000 You know, you have like a plan, you know, you wake up and you've got a plan for the day 388 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,000 and some people lack that kind of structure in their life. 389 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:48,000 And if you're going to be successful, grow mushrooms, like it forces you to have a structure 390 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,000 in your life. 391 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:55,000 That wraps up today's episode of only the best herbs. 392 00:34:55,000 --> 00:35:02,000 I really enjoyed this interview with Ed again, sporeswops.com. 393 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:07,000 Another word from one of our sponsors here, Ruga Monteto. 394 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,000 A word from one of our sponsors, Ruga Monteto. 395 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:17,000 They supply quality, first generation bread, can of genetics. 396 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,000 Reach out to us here at Surgeons. 397 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:26,000 We supply all of Ruga Monteto's up to date strains, including strains mixed with runts, 398 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:31,000 cookies, grape stomper, josh dee, kush, and more. 399 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:41,000 If you're looking for unique, exotic, carefully created cannabis strains, Surgeons is the place 400 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,000 to be. 401 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:47,000 Visit our website, surgeonsolution.io. 402 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,000 Where you'll find only the best. 403 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:56,000 Until next time, this is Ryan Boulder with only the best herbs, and you'll talk to me 404 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,000 soon. 405 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:02,000 Thank you for what it takes to be only the best. 406 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:18,000 Thanks for watching.