I didn't hear what you said.
Thomas is always like, I can't hear you and I'm like, can you not hear me or are you not
listening?
He's like, you just are so soft spoken.
I was like, I don't think so.
I only think you're soft spoken when you want to be, but today's not one of those days.
We have a special guest in the Emily Cramsey recording studio.
I guess it's the Thick AF podcast recording studio.
It is my baby child sister.
So welcome to the Thick AF podcast.
And Jerry Marie.
Jerry Marie is here with us.
We had this discussion about my full name and you just released it to the wild.
You don't like it?
I released it to the wild.
You can take it out if you want, but Jerry Marie, I was going to say that it kind of
sounds like a porn star's name or not a porn star or like somebody famous.
Like Alexis Texas?
No, that's like a stripper name, a porn star like Jerry Marie, like Anna Nicole.
Like Geraldine something.
Bummer.
You know what?
I always forget that your name is, it is Geraldine, isn't it?
No, it's just Jerry.
Because there I know a lot of people Jerry, but like Jerry Geraldine and Marie are kind
of like old lady.
Geraldine Marie.
That's a lot.
That would be a lot mouthful.
Geraldine Marie.
I wonder what you know what?
What is our friend Geraldine's middle name?
I do not know.
I don't know if I ever found out.
You want me to phone a friend and find out real quick?
No, no, no.
Why don't you phone your Facebook?
It's probably something really long.
Like she probably has two middle names too.
So welcome Jerry Marie, porn star.
Thank you for having me.
We're excited to have you.
Yeah.
Cheers everybody.
I know.
So what's going on?
Why are you in town?
Do we, you know, are you sharing that information?
I am in town because our father just had a hip replacement.
That is an aggressive word.
And you know, they've got a lot of things they need help with out at the house.
Yeah.
So Charles had a hip replacement on Monday and he is back at home now.
But yeah, they got dogs and horses and all that jazz.
So Jerry and I are essentially the farm duty girls for the week.
Yes.
So shoveling shit every morning.
Y'all don't look like shoveling type of girls.
Listen, we-
That is a compliment.
Thank you.
Yeah.
But we, we like, I spent my first year of college living with them shoveling shit every
single day as my like-
You shoveled shit your freshman year of college?
Every single day.
I was living there too.
That was my chore.
Sarah's like, I don't know, I'm still asleep.
You worked and went to night school so you can worry around.
Fair enough.
Yeah.
I was shoveling.
I wasn't there a whole lot.
Well, so that's not really fair.
Just because you work, go to night school and have a boyfriend doesn't mean you don't
get to shovel you know what.
Well, I had also lived down here for like a year by myself and helped with all that.
I helped build the damn fence that fences the horses.
But also I am now the sole like out of town house sitting person and I have shoveled shit
many times and Jerry hadn't had to do it in a minute.
Listen, I do it every day for all four of my animals.
It's just not that big.
Yeah.
Until the fall, I had to walk my dogs every day, pick up that shit and my dogs are still
larger than all yours combined.
Wait, what kind of dogs do you have?
Well, I guess dog.
I mean my dogs, I had two black labs.
Now I just have one, but she's a big girl and now she's found on the side of the road
in Mobile.
Mobile.
When I adopted her when I was living in Atlanta and then moved back to Mobile.
So brought her to Mobile back to her home.
And then I moved in with my boyfriend and he has two dogs.
So now I have three dogs.
But now we have a yard.
So I don't have to pick up shit every day, but you know, you still got to pick it up.
Yeah, but they also have a really great contraption for the dog shit.
No, let's not advertise this because it's not one of those things.
It's like a diaper genie.
It's a dog poop septic tank.
And you buy this contraption and you buy these tablets that are digester tablets and you
dig this big asshole in your yard and then you, I guess cover to the top of it and you
stick this thing in it that like is a lid that opens and closes.
So you open it and you put your shit in it and you put a digester tablet in it.
I don't know, maybe like once a week.
And it's supposed to be like a septic tank basically.
And it digests dog poop back into like the ground.
Does it work?
Well, when you have three dogs and you have the size of a hole that was dug, it is not
efficient.
And you're also supposed to put water in it.
And now it's kind of just like this watery dog poop.
Oh gross.
I didn't know that.
It's like soupy poopy.
Or poopy soupy.
And I mean now it like legitimately isn't going anywhere.
And we haven't put anything in it in a long time because we knew it wasn't working.
Even the digestion tablets are not working anymore.
It's not enough.
The hole's not big enough.
Oh geez.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Well, who came up with that?
So you have a literal shit hole in your backyard.
We have a shit hole in the backyard.
I mean, if I thought it was acceptable to put on Instagram, I'd take a picture of it
and post it, but that's not going to happen.
No.
I don't even want to go anywhere near it.
I haven't checked it in a while.
Like, I don't know.
It might've gone down, but I don't think once it goes down, we're going to continue to use
it.
Does it smell bad in the summertime?
No.
Okay.
Well, that's good because I have like a little trash can out here.
And if you go outside, don't go out there because right now the trash doesn't come till Thursday
and I have three dogs and I, and then sometimes other people's dogs come back here and poop
and they don't clean it up.
So I like pick it up.
And I think I'm like, did I miss my dog poop?
Do you need to be reporting that to the HOA?
I was on the HOA, but I quit like yesterday.
Well, at my old place I lived.
I still live.
You know, part of me wants to like push the envelope a little bit and just get us like
a cease and desist so we can like talk about, talk shit about it on the podcast and just
see what the fuck happens.
But like,
Wait, do they listen to the podcast?
Well, some people around here do.
Yeah.
They're like, people at the pool have stopped me and been like, I was listening to the podcast
and I'm like, Oh God.
So at my old apartment complex, we had this issue and they sent out notices that everybody
had to have their dog brought in for DNA testing and they, did they pay for it?
They paid for it.
They swabbed the inside of your dog's mouth.
They sent it into a company and you got a tag and it created a profile for your animal.
But if they found any pit or anything like that, any poop, yeah, that somebody, oh wait,
the poop.
Yes.
It's poop.
Wait, they DNA'd the poop?
Yeah.
So if they found any poop, then they would test it and they'd send it off.
And if it was a match to your dog, then you got fined.
What fancy apartment were you living at that had the money to do that?
I think I'm shocked by it.
Listen, my apartment complex did that.
Greta had to do that.
It was like two owners, two or three owners ago at my complex, they called it poo prints.
And they did that.
And if your, yes, your, your first infraction was a hundred dollars.
Your second was 200.
The third was 300 and then you got kicked out.
No, I think our third was you got, maybe even the second you got kicked out.
But here's my problem with that.
If you got any Karen that wants to fuck with you, then all that's going to happen is they
could watch you throw your dog's shit away and then they could bring it in that same
bag to the office.
And that's some bullshit.
I think that that, first of all, that is like a, like a violation of privacy.
It was pretty wild.
That's really messed up.
I mean, I took care of my dogs and cleaned up after them, so I didn't care.
But then I was worried sometimes when I would go out of town, if I had someone house sitting
and would take my dogs out because you have to walk them.
I would get nervous that they might not like pick up after them.
And then I was going to get in trouble.
I didn't even think about that.
At least you had a dog park.
We didn't have that.
Yeah.
And I don't know if they were like monitoring the dog park or whatever, but I mean, I was
very lucky and have never really had to do anything with Greta or now with Jolene.
I had somebody come walk Jolene when we went to Atlanta for Giggly Squad and that was it.
Shout out Pagan, Hannah.
I know.
We had fun.
I never really listened to them or anything until we went to that.
And you're like, Giggly Squad, we're going to see Giggles.
And I'm like, what the hell is Giggly Squad?
And that was a shit show of a damn night.
I thought it was fun.
I mean, I had fun.
It was just a long night and it was longer than we thought it was going to be.
We actually talked about that today.
So Sarah texts me and is like, hey, we're going to go to Trader Joe's and get this pizza.
Are you okay with this type of pizza?
And I was like, yeah, you always pick out good food, so I'm good with that.
And then I was like, wait a minute, just kidding.
There was this one time when you ordered this pizza, what was it called?
It was some, I don't know what the place was called or what the pizza was called, but we
went to some restaurant before and it was an Italian place and we got this pizza that
was like a white pizza and had gorgonzola on it.
You would have thought that they, I don't even know where gorgonzola comes from.
It was like the strongest gorgonzola you've ever had.
Oh, sick.
They put it all on the pizza instead of just little sprinkles.
It tasted so bad.
It was just like so, it was so overwhelming.
Yeah, it was like a lot.
We couldn't eat it.
We had to order another pizza to go.
We ordered a cheese pizza to go and then Santana's bitch ass.
You went back to the cheese.
You didn't even try to like get some type of topping to help with the flavor.
It had prosciutto or something on it and like it had other stuff.
There was, yeah.
Oh, that was back in your not pepperoni days.
Yeah.
So we ordered cheese pizza.
She eats pepperoni now?
Apparently.
We ordered one hot honey that we got at the store.
I don't eat pepperoni either.
No, we're cheese pizza eaters.
We cheese pizza.
And it's not because of Sarah and she doesn't eat it because of me.
We just, that's what we like.
No, pizza.
So we ordered a cheese pizza to go because I was like, we didn't eat very much at dinner
because we didn't eat our fucking pizza.
And I was like, I'm going to be hungry after this.
We're on our way home.
And at one point, and finally I figure out Santana's sat in the front seat.
No.
We asked for the pizza and you handed it to her at one point.
And then we stopped to get lottery tickets and I kept winning.
And so I was in a, yeah.
Scratch offs.
I kept winning like 10 times and they were like, no more.
And by the time I was done with all the scratch offs, Santana had eaten her entire pizza.
I was so mad.
She was really pissed.
Like she was like, what the hell?
We were sitting at a gas station at a pump because Erin needed to get gas.
I went in and peed.
I tried to buy beer.
Apparently it was too late for that.
You can buy lottery tickets at any damn hour, but I can't get me a big gulp of truly or
anything like that for the damn ride home.
Well, yeah, I mean, because they knew it was you.
You were probably not supposed to do that.
It was a Saturday night.
One of those you win money.
Or was it?
It was Friday.
Yeah, that's some bullshit.
Well, and we don't get the, so for everybody else that doesn't know this, we live in Alabama
and we don't have the lottery here and it's so sad.
So like, anytime you go to Georgia, you're like, yeah, lottery tickets.
Literally the one, you know how someone in California just won that billion dollar power
baller Mega Man.
Yeah.
We almost drove to Mississippi just to buy some tickets.
You can't get it in Florida.
Well, Mississippi is technically a little closer on that side where I live.
Really?
How far is it for you?
I mean, maybe like 30 minutes.
Oh, wow.
Oh my God.
I'm so jealous.
They used to be like that when I lived in Auburn.
I could drive like, yeah, you go to exit to go to frisky whiskey, frisky whiskey.
Yeah.
They have cheap alcohol too.
Yeah.
I used to go during college and we'd get in lines to buy lottery tickets there.
The very first time that I ever bought Jerry alcohol when I was 21 and she wasn't, they
made us go to the big rat gas station.
Big cat.
Big rat.
It looks like a rat.
Big rat.
Where is this?
Here?
In Auburn.
Oh, in Auburn.
Wait, where is it?
Is it still there?
I don't know, but it's called the big cat.
It's not the big rat.
It's right next to the road that takes you to Kroger.
Yeah.
Like on Dane Road.
I used to live on Dane.
It's on Opelika Road.
But anyways, it has a gas station on one side and a liquor store on the other.
Oh, that one.
It's right there.
Yes.
It's still called the big cat.
It used to be across from where the bowling alley is.
Yes.
Yeah.
So I go in there and they want juice.
It's what?
Kind of sketchy.
It was not that bad.
Oh, so you made me go into a sketchy gas station.
Right by the railroad tracks.
It's the gas station we all went into.
So needless to say, do you want to know what their request was?
Do you remember what it was?
What was it?
I know where you're going with this, but I don't remember the alcohol request.
It was vodka.
Okay.
And what was the mixer?
Grape co.
Oh, like I love Diet, Greggy Picot.
No.
So listen, after I buy this for them.
And Peach Nehi.
I think we went to like one frat party for like a little bit.
And then we went back.
The guy she was dating at the time lived at Creekside and we like hung out there.
And that two liter of Grape co rolled around in the back of my Honda Civic for months after
that.
And finally I had to get it out.
It was never opened and it went straight in the trash.
Wait.
So what did you drink?
Just straight vodka?
I have no idea.
I don't know.
I don't even know what I drank.
I don't remember.
That's good.
Good night.
I'm pretty sure that was the time we had the goat.
Like an actual goat?
Did y'all steal a goat?
Y'all stole a goat.
No.
Not us.
The fraternity party we went to was, it was like a farm party.
Yeah.
Like a hoedown type party.
They had like hay bales in the house.
So it was like a K.A. probably.
Different fraternity.
Yeah, different.
But they went to a farm and asked this guy when they saw these goats on the side of the
road if they could borrow one.
So they took a baby goat for the weekend.
They borrowed the baby goat for free.
They brought it back.
And that same night at that same party, there was a girl there that was singing and she
was a former stripper at the Fuzzy Duck in Gadsden.
What?
I made friends with her in the bathroom.
Wait, there was a strip club in Gadsden called the Fuzzy Duck?
Yes.
Connie can confirm.
I wonder why it's called a duck.
Is that kind of like a hairy vagina?
Damn.
Girl, I was not going to go there.
Like a Buzzer Duck?
Oh, y'all.
What'd you say?
Like a beaver.
A beaver.
Yeah.
Oh my God.
I'm trying.
Are you trying to Google and see if it ever existed?
No.
Is this the same lead singer lady that was a Playboy?
Yes.
In Playboy?
Yes.
I remember this.
I can't remember.
Her name was like Jemma or some shit like that.
That's like my name, but with a G. Our names mixed together without the Ali.
Okay.
So we're going to cut the chit chat and get into the FMK.
Yeah.
All right.
Are y'all ready for this?
I'm nervous.
All right.
So we're doing infamous cult leaders.
Number one, Charles Manson.
Number two, well, and everybody knows who Charles Manson is.
Number two, David Koresh.
He is the guy that was a leader of the Waco.
I don't know if y'all saw those documentaries or whatnot.
I don't know much about it, if I'm being honest.
I've seen several of the like documentaries.
I watched the scripted one, I think.
Oh, the scripted one.
Oh, yes.
Good stuff.
Okay.
And then number three, Warren Jeffs.
And he was the one that was at the Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey, which I'm going to need y'all
to like refresh my memory on him.
I can.
Oh, he, I mean, I have a whole.
That's the title of the documentary.
Yeah.
Title.
Yeah.
He was a fundamentalist for the LDS basically.
Okay.
So you just do your FMK and explain why.
So then that'll help me understand which one.
Can I admit something?
You said everyone knows who Charles Manson is.
I know who he is, but I don't know much about like his, my sister's looking at me like I'm
a crazy.
I don't have you know, I've been reading the news.
Do you not see the lady that just got let out of jail?
One of his followers?
No.
Yeah.
He has like, I don't have the news.
Remember?
So Charles Manson was a cult leader.
I forgot what his cult was called.
But he basically like murder people.
Cool.
Guy.
No, like that was in town.
Oh, I think that's the one I was listening to when we all came in.
All right, Jerry, you said you have opinions.
I'm going to let you go first.
All right.
I mean, we're not fucking we're not marrying anyone.
But I will say I have to choose though.
I will say that two of these people did murder people.
And one of them hasn't technically murdered anyone.
So which one?
So David Koresh didn't murder anybody, right?
No.
He yes, he did.
He did murder people.
He was part of the what is it called?
They had like a showdown with the police.
There was a massacre.
I didn't know he murdered anybody.
Yeah, he was.
Children died in a fire.
Well, he was just technically in his opinion was protecting his family.
Okay.
Well, they also like had an artillery of weapons that they chose to amass in case anything
like that happened so that they were well equipped to defend themselves, which meant
murdering people.
That's true.
So okay, so we're saying that Warren Jeffs didn't murder anybody.
Warren Jeffs.
So I don't know from my understanding has not murdered anyone.
I mean, Charles Manson.
That's a given.
No, I can talk about Warren Jeffs in a little bit.
So he's an old disgusting white man.
Yeah, he looks disgusting, like more like a pervert, like he would probably kill you.
Yes.
And then have sex with your corpse.
So I think I would just look at his face in that picture.
This one right here.
I mean, the other two are just not like viable options.
You know, nothing is a viable option.
I think I'm just going to they're all getting killed.
I agree with that.
Okay, but so I'm going to choose because this is how a kill goes and we just have to choose.
Okay, so if I had to choose, I would I would kill Warren Jeffs.
I don't care that he hasn't killed anybody.
He's really freaky and looks really crazy.
I would fuck Charles Manson and then I would kill or I would marry Mary, Mary David Koresh
because I feel like I would be able to get away from David Koresh, Charles Manson.
I don't feel like I could get away from him.
He seemed a little crazier.
And Warren Jeffs, like I just can't even look at his face.
He's just really creepy.
Well, Warren Jeffs would, I mean, be like banging his like offspring at some levels.
So like that's how did David Koresh did me, I think.
Yes, David Koresh was also like having sex with children, not the people he he brought
his wife into this whole thing like and then made himself the leader of it and like that
he was the prophet and all these people followed him and he like brainwashed the shit out of
her and Charles Manson is just fucking nuts.
If we're going by attractiveness, though, let me go back and look at.
OK, so I'm looking at some images.
Charles Manson, in my opinion, looks psychotic.
Yeah, but he still looks better than David Koresh has like a mullet.
And I know that mullets are apparently in nowadays, but not with the females.
They're only in with the dudes like dudes like mullet.
And I'm sorry.
I don't know.
Like David Koresh looks more normal.
Sort of sort of.
But I feel like, OK, I'm going to pick.
That's why I said it would marry him.
That's true.
All right.
Well, I'm going to pick now.
OK, that kind of made it like normal.
Well, I am going to marry Charles Manson.
What?
He's like living in Hollywood, rubbing elbows with famous people.
So let you know.
Why not?
Maybe I'll make some friends.
Who knows that he'll want to murder?
Well, yeah.
And then he'll tell you to go murder them.
And yeah, and then you will.
OK.
Charles, Charlie.
OK, Charlie, I do whatever you say.
I don't know about that.
And well, I'm sucking you know, you know what?
I don't know.
I feel like that's what girls did back then for him.
And then you'd be living in jail for the rest of your life.
Yeah.
And then we'd be talking about you like the crazy lady that just got out of jail because
you were his follower.
Well, fine.
Then I'm marrying Warren Jeffs.
I'm not marrying that other guy.
No, don't marry Warren Jeffs.
Why?
You can get away from him after I'm done.
Yeah, you could because Warren Jeffs had like 80 wives.
Oh, yeah.
They ain't keeping track of all of you.
OK, see, I don't know much about I need to watch like a thing about him.
I can talk about it.
Do we want to transition into that?
Yeah, transition into him.
Yeah.
All right.
Wait, Jerry, you never answered.
Are you going to answer?
OK.
I think I'd kill Charles Manson because he's just so fucked up in that, you know, and David
Koresh.
Maybe I'd marry him, too.
I think, yeah.
Wait, that means I got to fuck.
Yeah, the weird thing is that probably has STDs.
No, OK, OK, OK.
You could have a sexless marriage.
This is so hard.
This is a good one.
OK, maybe I'm marrying Warren.
See, it's not that bad of an idea.
He's got so many wives that you could just like walk away and he would not.
Well, also, you can't have sex with 80 people in one day.
He's also old as shit, so he's probably not having that much sex.
Like Hugh Hefner style where like they didn't really have sex.
I think they did.
I watched the documentary about the Playboy.
I've seen part of it.
It's really crazy.
I have.
It's wild.
Yeah.
But that was also over a span of many, many years.
Yeah, he probably got old and couldn't get it up anymore.
But I'm sure he had Viagra and things.
And then you had to do it like a lot longer because it was like fake erection for like
hours.
So hearing something, I don't know if it was like an audio part of like Holly Madison's
book.
I love her.
Or I do.
Or if it was part of this documentary, but in girls talking about it, I think it might
have been where I started it and they were talking about like how every night was movie
night and they would like go into his room, lay in his bed and then you had to like stay
after.
Yes.
So he would like pick someone maybe to stay after or like multiple people.
He would tell people to go to the room or he would he would send his girls like his
girlfriend to go out and pick girls from the party or whatever to come in and hang out
with them.
And then it turned into like a crazy sex party with like wild toys and whatever he was doing.
Maybe I'm thinking of from like the Girls Next Door show.
I loved that show too.
And it made me I wanted honestly before I knew all this stuff.
Oh, they romanticized the fuck out of it.
I was like if I if I ever did anything like that, I would be on Playboy because it's like
classy.
No, they made you think that like it was a good the good thing.
Absolutely.
And that they took care of those girls on their show.
They made it.
They were so normal seeming and they were sweet.
But that's how you keep the veil on things.
So messed up.
Absolutely.
And these cult leaders like Hugh Hefner, I would say that's a cult.
I would say that's fair.
I mean, if like nowadays when you really look back at stuff like, yeah, it's fucked up.
He had so much control all of absolutely they go anywhere without him knowing where they
were going.
They couldn't they didn't get enough money.
Yeah, they didn't have like financial independence.
Kendra was like a teenager.
She was like 18 or 19 when she started living there.
She's hilarious.
And my mom was the first person that got me on that Girls Next Door TV show.
She loved it.
And I was surprised that she was like Emily should watch this.
It's so cute because I was like she watches she wants me to watch the Playboy show.
And then I started watching it and I love them.
They're so sweet.
Yeah, I feel bad for them.
But they're all better off now.
Yes.
But also, yeah, they're famous and thank God they got that out of this.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
All right.
So we'll transition into the docu series and I can't remember if it's on I think it's
on Netflix.
Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey and this is about this all I don't want to say that it started
with but he his father Rulon Jeffs was the president of the Fundamentalist Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
And it was reported that at the time of Rulon's death, he was 92 years old, he had 65 wives
and 65 children.
But it said other sources indicated that he may have been survived by 60 wives and about
60 children, including 33 sons.
So that means that his 33 sons have to be wifed up somewhere.
And they all probably have at least five kids each.
Right.
I mean, I would think because I mean, yeah, it sounds like some wives.
I mean, not every wife had a kid, I'm sure.
So you know, multiple children within.
I mean, I think that was that's the purpose.
Oh, I agree with you.
But who knows what the ratio is, you know, number of children to wives, whatever.
So Warren Jeffs took over as prophet of the polygamous cult within the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Following Rulon's death, Jeff told the high ranking officials, I won't say much, but I
will say this hands off my father's wives.
When addressing his father's widows, he said, you women will live as if father is still
alive and in the next room within a week.
Wait, wait, whose father?
Father is Warren Jeffs?
Rulon was Warren Jeff's father.
So when he died, Warren said hands off my dad's wives, whatever.
Within a week, he had married all but two of his father's wives.
Wait, OK.
So OK, hold on.
Let me back up on this because that was fast.
OK.
So you're saying that Rulon was the dad and Warren Jeffs was a son and then Rulon had
all these wives.
How many?
Six, six, between 60 and 65.
And then when he died, Warren Jeffs started marrying them?
Yes.
Even though it was like his father strictly said to lay off his wife.
Did he also marry his mother?
His mother?
Good question.
Surely not.
That is weird.
Yeah.
And how did the why did the women think that?
They have to.
It was OK to wait.
They had to marry his son.
They don't have an option.
That's the whole point of this is like they were like there was no more ruling.
They were.
And that's why it was called Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey.
So it was obey what we say.
Yeah.
Obey the men in your lives.
And there were no I mean, they weren't making money.
They didn't have jobs.
I mean, they were, you know, homemakers, whatever.
And they were raising, you know, plethora of children and cohabitating, you know, with
three other wives within, you know, the polygamous marriage, that sort of thing, all with one
goal.
And the goal was to build and live and exist in this place that they called Zion.
OK.
And Zion was this ranch in Texas that was almost 1700 acres.
Well, hold up.
Before they got to Texas, they took over.
They got kicked out of the Mormon community in Utah.
And why?
Because there his Rulon's practices were different from the regular like Mormon LDS, I guess.
Right.
Which means that they're they will get into that.
Why they're part of it?
Because Mormonism isn't all about polygamy.
And that sort of thing at that time in the area they were in in Utah, they were evolving
their lifestyles of the teachings and practices that they were following and that the father
didn't want that and wanted to stay with the polygamous style lifestyle.
Gotcha.
So they moved south into southern Utah and developed this huge community and took over
basically this entire town there.
And then when that's when they were kind of getting into trouble there with stuff that
they they were kind of getting run out once the communities that they were living in kind
of figured out what was going on and that sort of thing.
And they were frowning upon it.
And, you know, just people were starting to ask questions.
And I can't remember.
So they secretly purchased all this property in Texas that they're calling Zion.
Where in Texas?
I don't know exactly.
Was it like near like Dallas or like was it just like out in the middle of nowhere?
Yeah.
So they started funneling all this money and all these resources.
And he started leaving and traveling all the time.
And they figured out it was to this place in Texas.
He was calling Zion where they were actually building this community there.
It was supposed to be a self-sustaining community and orchard filled with trees, apple trees,
peaches, pears and a massive temple and housing for all of the families.
So first of all, I love that these cults, they're all so original with his name of Zion for
his town or whatever it's going to be.
I'm like, okay, couldn't you come up with something that wasn't in the Bible?
I don't know.
Yeah.
Like they named their kids.
They're all like Abraham and like John Jacob Jingleheimer Smith.
Well, in the documentary, some of the children got, I mean, they got out and, you know, there
were ones that left like at different times or whatever.
And there were people that like also were like in love, but they weren't like a marriage
match.
And so they couldn't be together and one would run away.
The other one was supposed to run away.
Sometimes they came back and it was just really sad to, you know, kind of know what these,
you know, especially women went through because they would be matched with these men at like
13, 14 years old.
And you know, as soon as they got their period, they were expected to marry and breed.
And it was like, I mean, it was wild.
So were they, okay.
So my question is, were they recruiting through, were they still recruiting through the outside
world or were they just like reproducing?
I think it was mostly reproducing within the community that was already there.
So like incestuous kind of.
Yeah.
And like they all, he also at some point got pissed off at some of the wives that were
being not like defiant, but like he was mad at how things were unraveling and maybe mad
at some of his brothers too.
And he switched up their marriages and like changed who they, the wives were married to
to these other old, old men.
Yes.
And his father's like close in age folks and stuff like that.
Wow.
It was nuts.
So needless to say in the docu series, the government eventually gets involved and there
was, I mean, there's a really crazy story.
It's something involved like him getting pulled over after leaving like a casino or some,
something like that where like he's like partaking in this crazy lifestyle outside of.
Oh yeah, of course.
He's like going out and doing that crazy stuff, but everybody else is not allowed to.
Yes.
Doing the things that nobody-
Taking all the other people's money.
Yes.
100%.
Doing things that he's not supposed to be doing and that sort of thing.
Well, no, he's allowed to do it.
Well, right.
But they're not.
Right.
Yeah.
But needless to say, the government gets involved and they had, you know, just, I mean, masses
of people coming in to take these children.
So do you think he was buying drugs or anything like that that may have been putting him on
the radar or like gambling a lot of money or not paying taxes?
I think maybe part of it started when they were in Texas or trying to move the community
to Texas and people in Texas were questioning what was happening.
Like the fishiness of.
Yeah.
The community that was being built and what was really going on.
Yeah.
But I don't 100% know that, but it says that he was arrested for harboring and his brother
was arrested for harboring a fugitive because at that point Jeff's was a fugitive and there
was a traffic stop that said he had 142,000 in cash and 7,000 in prepaid debit cards.
And so he was like kind of on the run for a few years.
How did he get all this cash?
That's crazy to me.
I guess he wasn't he was getting it from all the other people and he wasn't spending it.
Yeah.
Like somehow they had businesses.
OK.
Gotcha.
So did he end up going to jail?
Is he in jail?
Yes.
He's serving a life sentence.
So and he was raping children in Texas.
Yeah.
He ended up getting convicted for a bunch of stuff.
Yeah.
But it is believed that he still runs this FLDS and exercises influence on its members
from prison.
Wow.
OK.
So moving along to the next loser in this cult series, we're going to talk about next
year.
So in 19.
Yeah.
In 1998, Keith Renear and Nancy Saltzman, a former psychiatric nurse, founded Nextium
as a purported self-help organization near Albany, New York.
It was a corporation that sold human development.
It sold human development.
I know.
We're not from Albany, at least.
No, we're not.
And self-help materials and devolved into personality cults of its founder, Keith Renear.
So it was basically started, and this is my opinion, but I think I'm pretty right, as
a multi-level marketing scheme.
Right.
So it was supposed to be almost like this executive professionalism.
Like leadership development.
Yeah.
And they would bring folks in for these classes, and it sort of evolved into something.
Oh, and then you had to continue paying more and more to get to the levels.
You had to continue paying, and right, you had to continue leading workshops and these
classes.
It's kind of like a multi-level marketing for leadership development.
Right.
And they conducted these intensive classes for about 12 hours a day for 16 days straight,
and they once cited the price was $7,500.
And then most of the time, when you have these people start, you're not stopping.
For whatever reason, experience some sort of enlightenment situation, and you're like,
oh my God, this is working.
I need to stick with this.
Can you pause right there?
Because I want to say something.
I've always just wondered.
I think about this stuff, and we'll get into why cults happen and what they are and stuff
like that in a minute.
But how can somebody... I don't think I've ever met anybody that I would just follow
and blindly and just be like, okay, and do everything.
I kind of want to be that way, but I don't want to be a cult leader, but I want to be
somebody that's charismatic and people like to be around me, but I'm just not.
I don't understand how do these people get these characteristics to lead these groups
and to think about it?
They are obviously extremely smart and just don't have any morals and are just like, they
don't care about other people.
Yeah.
And who knows if it started out that way mentally for some of these cult leaders or whatever,
but it's just the success and the love that the followers or the class participants in
the beginning show, it just takes off from there and something that it wasn't ever meant
to be.
It feeds their ego.
Yeah, 100%.
And it said the classes were divided into modules, and in one module, not necessarily
number one, but in a module, it was called relationship sourcings where students were
instructed to explore the benefits that they would receive in the event of a partner's
sudden death.
That's weird.
Oh wait, they would get away a partner if they were married or in a relationship?
Yeah, that's weird to me.
As professional development training.
So essentially they're getting-
Life insurance money.
Interesting.
Right.
They were getting trained on how to get that?
I mean it went from-
To explore the benefits.
Yeah.
It went from zero to 100 quickly, and it said-
I mean those are kind of things we should have talked about in our episode that dropped
last week, or today technically.
What?
How not to-
What things you need to know in your 30s, like how to collect insurance money.
Have life insurance.
Yeah, life insurance, but like yeah, that's wild.
So it evolved from that into a sex cult at some point.
So what was his name?
Keith Rainier.
Keith Rainier decided, I remember because of Ashley, or Alice in Mac, Alex Mac?
Yeah.
Which she was in what show was she in?
Smallville.
And her name was Alex Mac, wasn't she?
And so she somehow got recruited and then did you watch that documentary or whatever?
Yeah.
Or whatever it was?
And so she, one day I believe, like didn't they have, they were having a therapy session
and he was going to like massage her or something like that?
Isn't that right?
Oh yeah.
Isn't that how this happened?
I don't even think it was him.
I think that was the woman.
No, it was a man, or they had like somebody come in there and did like-
Oh, the woman's the one that gave them the tattoos or whatever.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
And then they did that whole other part of the-
Like the women's group.
Yes, the women's group.
That was after a while though.
But the first time I think that she realized, like that everything started happening was
when she got-
They definitely-
It wasn't Alice in, it wasn't Alex Mac, it was the other girl that did the documentary
or whatever it was.
Well, there, I mean, is a lot to it, but I think it started one way and then it very
quickly went in like a whole different direction.
It set an estimated 18,000 people enrolled in the group's workshops, including its executive
success program.
That's the one I was thinking of first.
And most participants only took a few classes, but some members became ardent followers
of Mr. Reynier calling him vanguard.
That's what it was-
Yeah, and regarding him as the most ethical man in the world.
And by 2017, several former members had asked New York state authorities to investigate
Nexium.
The complaints focused on a secretive group within the organization called the VAL.
That's what it is.
That's the name of the documentary.
And it says ORDOS, an acronym for the Latin phrase that roughly translate to Lord Master
of the Obedient Female Companions.
And the members were branded, which is the tattoo you're talking about, Jeri.
What did that tattoo look like?
I forgot.
It was letters.
But wasn't it like upside down his name or something?
Yes, when you turned it the other way, because I think in the documentary that she said she
had never like paid attention to how it really-
Yeah.
What it really was.
And then she figured out she was like branded with him for her life.
They were also assigned to have sex with him.
The celebrity affiliations, Alex Max, like you just talked about then, Kristen Kriuk,
or I don't know what her name, how you say her last name, but she was also in Smallville.
She was the brown haired actress in Smallville.
And Claire Bromfman, who's a Seagrams heiress, like Seagrams-
That was the girl that the blonde-
The ginger ale?
That's Seagrams?
Or Seagrams cocktails.
Yeah.
Oh.
Jeri just loved ginger ale.
Damn, girls.
She asked me earlier when we were at Trader Joe's, she said, do they have individual non-alcoholic
drinks here?
And I was like, yes.
I took her to the damn juice aisle or whatever.
She was like, they don't have a Coke?
I'm like, no.
No, it's Trader Joe's.
Sorry.
And she was like, I really just wish I had a ginger ale.
I said, well, Krampus is going to have Diet Mountain Dew, but that's about it.
I don't even have any Diet Mountain Dew right now.
I know, it's crazy.
Needless to say, okay, the last person was Catherine Oxenberg, who was a dynasty actress,
and her daughter was the one who was deeply involved in it that they were trying to rescue.
I can't remember the daughter's name.
I want to say it starts with an A, something like that.
But overall-
She was the girl that they really told her story.
Yes.
Yeah.
Because they tried to save her and they were trying to communicate with her.
It was one of those things where when you got deep enough into it, they took your cell
phone.
You were not supposed to be on social media in any capacity.
It was really just isolating these people.
Okay.
Sorry to interrupt.
Go ahead.
I looked up the branding.
The way that they explained it was like that I remember, it was something about this mountain
and the sun and everything.
But then when you turned it sideways, what it is, is a giant K for Keith.
Then the little part on the inside of it is then an upside down capital R, Chris last
name.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Crazy.
When you see it, when they explained it, they were like, oh, we had his initials on us.
I was like, oh my God, it's so obvious now that they showed it.
But before it was like-
But then when they were explaining what it was to them, what they were told it was, it
also looks like that.
Exactly.
Yes.
Yeah.
That's like you don't know and then you turn it and you're like, wow, that's crazy.
Okay.
So this kind of reminds me.
So the girl that, what was her name that they're trying to find that was in the documentary
series.
Oxenberg's daughter.
Yeah.
So she was saying she was getting massage or something and he was trying to work out
whatever.
And it reminded me of the guy that molested all the gymnasts that would like, he'd be
like, oh, I need to fix, this is going to fix your problem.
Larry Nessar.
And he would stick his hand in their vagina or something.
And he would do it in front of their parents.
Like in the same room, but like they would be facing a different way.
And then the girls like don't really know like if that's wrong or not.
That's what that reminded.
I don't know.
I swear I just saw something about how he just got fucked up in jail.
Maybe.
He probably will.
I'm sure.
Yeah.
Those victim statements were some of the most intense moments in a courtroom I've ever seen.
Oh my gosh.
I know.
It was wild.
So let me wrap up Nexium just real quick.
And y'all, there's so much more to all of these stories.
Go watch the docu series.
But Renear and five women linked to Nexium, including Nancy Saltzman, that Claire Bromfman,
Seagram's lady, and then Alex Mack were charged with racketeering, conspiracy involving a
raft of crimes, including identity theft, extortion, forced labor, sex trafficking,
money laundering, wire fraud, and obstruction of justice.
Wow.
So they were, they definitely started off being like, let's be awesome executive professionals
and to, um, let's steal some money and force people to have sex with us.
Power went to their heads.
Apparently so.
Yeah.
Larry Nassar just got stabbed in jail two weeks ago after a comment he made watching
Wimbledon.
Oh, is he dead?
I don't think so.
My thing is when you're in jail,
these people that are in jail and they're going to stab somebody, they know where to
stab you to kill you.
So did they do it just to mess with him?
Just to be like, to put him in pain to like torture him or like, cause then if they want
to kill you, they don't kill you.
Oh, for sure.
You're going to be dead.
Yeah.
Right.
I mean, that's how I feel.
No, I mean, I, I agree with that wholeheartedly.
I mean, who knows?
He was stabbed in the back and the chest.
Yikes.
That's crazy.
I know.
The big one that I want to talk about is this mommy doomsday podcast and there's a show.
Have you ever seen it?
I have not.
So it is about, have you seen it or listened to the podcast?
Refresh my memory because I know what you're talking about, but I can't remember whether
I watched it.
Her, I forgot her name and I'll tell you in a minute, but she, there's a lady who was
like a beauty queen.
She was really pretty.
She married this guy, whatever ends up having some kids like from two different people,
I think, and then gets involved with this guy from the Latter Day Saints, like the Mormon
community and he is like essentially starting a cult, I guess, or he's got like a cult going
kind of thing.
Oh, yes.
And then she killed her kids.
She said there was a, yeah, Vallow.
Yeah.
So she kills the two kids.
It's like JJ or JJ and I forgot the little girl's name and I feel bad not knowing their
names, but this is kind of off the cuff, but yeah.
But they were like talking about how people were zombies.
Did you listen?
Yeah.
So they went on a murder spree and basically killed multiple family members.
They didn't actually physically, I don't know, maybe they did, but I don't know if they physically
killed everybody, but they facilitated the murders.
So like maybe her brother, I think it was her brother or cousin or somebody like that
who was following her would do a murder, like killed her ex-husband for her, but she really
kind of manipulated him into doing it.
But then they also killed somebody else.
Yes.
That was an adult.
She was convicted in May of conspiracy to murder Tammy Daybell, the late wife of Vallow's
current husband, so her current husband's ex-wife and then JJ and Tylee.
Yeah, but there were several other people that got murdered by somebody else, but they
kind of facilitated it.
So I don't know if that's like, she'll actually get murder, but she'll probably get some type
of, I don't know if they're going to be able to have proof or whatnot, but her ex-husband,
I forgot his name.
You know who I'm talking about.
Chad.
No, Chad's food.
The guy that did it with her, killed her kids with her, buried them in the ground in Texas
or wherever they were.
Oh, that was her fifth husband.
It was out in Idaho.
I think it was in Idaho or something.
Maybe it was somewhere out in the middle of nowhere, like the country, but she also has
a living son that was living in California, I think, at the time.
And he was like, I don't know what's going on, kind of separated.
Okay, so going back to this whole cult thing, this Chad guy, he wrote a bunch of books and
then he would say stuff.
He was using religion to get people to follow him.
And then he was kind of like twisting it to say people were zombies.
And he was like, basically they were just telling other people, this person's a zombie,
which means that they don't like them anymore, essentially.
And that that person, any zombie, anytime any party turns into a zombie, they can kill
them and God will allow it.
And it's not against the law in their minds.
So they would just like kill people, just be like, oh, that person's a zombie now.
And so they were like, oh, our kids are zombies.
And they killed them.
That's crazy.
It says she faces separate charges in Arizona in connection with the death of her fourth
husband, Charles Valo, as well as conspiring to kill her ex-nephew-in-law, Brandon Boudreaux.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, they killed her ex-husband.
He died.
So she had a mental breakdown.
Well, so I don't know, because she seemed normal and happy.
If you listen to the podcast, it was such a good podcast.
And I think, you know, there's a TV.
I don't know what it's on.
It's on Netflix or whatnot.
But what was the podcast called?
Mommy Doomsday.
You need to know.
It's so good.
But she was like beauty queen.
Like she was so pretty.
Like everybody loved her.
She did all these things.
She was a great mom.
All these things had a great.
She found a great husband.
And all of a sudden she gets hooked up with this Chad Daybell guy and like she's not even
divorced from her husband.
And then they like moved to Hawaii or somewhere like that.
Yeah, they like escaped to Hawaii and basically like her kids were missing.
Yeah, they just were like.
They're like the people, the press were down there and they were like, where are your kids?
And they were just like, what?
What are you talking about?
They're out there with their aunt or some, you know, some lie.
And they would try to find the people that they say that they were with.
And they were like, they aren't here.
The grandparents were like the ones that really kind of dug into it and got the police involved.
And it's such a sad story.
But these grandparents wanted so bad to like, and I believe the youngest little boy, I think
he might've had autism.
JJ had autism.
Yeah.
And JJ was actually her nephew's son.
Right.
Yes.
They adopted him.
And she and her ex-husband adopted him.
And then they got divorced after that because she started being crazy.
Yeah.
OK.
So all this being said, all these like, we've got all this cult stuff.
And I just want to know, like, what do you guys think?
Like what is a cult?
We're going to talk about that.
What do y'all think a cult is?
If I were to ask you and you didn't have like Google or whatnot, what would you, what would
your definition of a cult be?
I would say that it is an organization that even though you participate in, you in a way
have no choice, I guess, because maybe you don't have the financial resources, you don't
have the mental stability to get out, or you just have no other family, no other, you know,
familial resources.
OK.
And you have...
How do you get into it?
I mean, I think oftentimes it starts innocently and then you are mentally broken down, you
know, financially either cut off or, you know, reliant on this group of people or person.
And it's all you have left.
Yeah.
Jerry, what do you think it is?
Yeah, I agree with most of that.
I think like people get sucked into this of wanting to be like a part of something and
feel like they belong somewhere.
Like maybe they're at this low point in life where they've gone through some things and
they are feeling maybe like lonely, you know, and that they don't have like this group to
like fit in with.
Yeah.
And then somehow they find this like organization, they get pulled in and they feel like they've
found like this group of people that understand them in a way or like make them feel welcome.
Yeah, welcome.
Yeah.
And then they they pour all their life into it, you know, and then they get cut off from
all their family, all their friends, and they start putting their resources into it.
And maybe they don't even really have a lot of resources outside of it.
So it's like their lifeline.
Yeah.
And they have nowhere to go.
Yeah.
They just get sucked in.
I mean, not all Colts have like a murderous undertone, you know, like, but a lot of them
do.
The whole point of it is control in that the idea is really that they want to control and
take over.
Yes.
And have all of their ideology in a very manipulative way have their ideologies like pushed on to
everybody else and that they are like the majority of what the world would be, basically.
Right.
So when I did a little bit of research, not a lot, like to figure out like what the Internet
of the world says.
Okay, so a cult is a system of religious veneration.
I don't know if that's how you say that.
V E N E R A T I O N, which I Googled that too, because I was on what that means.
I'm not that smart.
I look, I'm, I don't know the words of the world.
Okay.
I know what like, like fifth grade reading.
You're not going to win a spelling bee.
No, I might win the spelling bee.
I'm good at that.
If you told me to spell veneration, I would be able to spell it.
Because I can't tell you what the definition is.
If I was like, please give me that in a sentence, I'd be like, I have no idea what that means.
Okay.
But the veneration or vener, I'm assuming that's what it is.
The act of honoring a saint is essentially what that is.
So a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object.
And it is a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded
by others as strange or sinister.
Okay.
So what is the difference between an occult and a religion or a church?
Are you asking?
No.
Well, I'm asking, but I'm going to tell you some thoughts, but I want to know like what
you think it is.
Like do you like, okay, so I'll just start talking and you guys chime in whenever you
feel one has become a legal way to funnel money without that.
Yes.
Agreed.
Not only that, I think when it comes down to following specific like rules, processes
or ideologies, I mean, every religion is a cult.
Essentially.
Yeah.
Well, sort of.
Okay.
So yes and no.
And so I actually found this, what's the guy's name?
Oh my God.
What's the guy that has the podcast?
Joe Rogan.
I found a Joe Rogan thing about cults today.
Cause I was like, oh my gosh.
He's one to talk.
And so I started listening to it and it actually, it was actually very interesting and I didn't
get to finish it, but like y'all should look it up.
I think it's something similar to this.
Like what's the difference between a cult and a religion?
Jerry's like, I ain't fucking with Joe Rogan.
No, ask him how his COVID treatment went with his horse tranquilizer.
Oh what?
I don't ever listen to him.
Everybody's like, you should listen to Joe Rogan.
I'm like, I don't know.
I don't listen to him.
But like, I did find that and I thought it was interesting because the guy that was on
there was he basically said, he was like every cult's a religion, Catholicism is religion.
All these things are, I mean, hold on, back up.
Everything's every religion is a cult.
Yeah.
And the guy was like, well, I disagree with that.
And so, and I thought it was very interesting.
They're a little conversation.
So anyways, okay.
So a cult uses the followers beliefs to extract things from them.
Okay.
Yeah.
And a cult is a social movement.
It's not like it's essentially it boils down to time.
Okay.
So it's like they want to create a new religion in the United States and appeal to the government
for new religion status and get protections and recognition from the U.S. government.
So technically anyone can have like their cult and call it a religion.
So like Scientology or whatnot, like Mormonism, people used to think was a cult, things like
that.
Okay.
So both religion and religions or churches or whatever and cults, they have things in
common.
So they a charismatic leader.
These people often follow a leader who claims divine or special access to different models
of knowledge and revelations.
Many are martyred.
Many of these people are martyred.
Like so the guy from the book, not the book of Mormon, not the book of Mormon.
I forgot his name.
The guy from the Mormon religion who like started it, he was, he was lynched, I think.
And then what was the other guy?
I'm trying to think of it.
The Brigham Young took over after the other guy.
Like John Smith.
It was like Joseph Smith.
It was Joseph Smith.
It was like, yeah.
So many are martyred and a lot of times they have these religions and cults have in common
end days.
So both of them are like, oh, we're going to go to a better place and there's going
to the end of the world's coming.
Jesus is going to come back.
There's going to be a second coming or whatnot.
So they like all the, a lot of the research I did said that like time is what differentiates
a cult from a religion because it takes time for a cult, for a movement, for like one of
these social movements to establish itself as a legit part of a religious landscape.
That makes sense.
And this is from, because they don't normally last for a long.
Yeah.
I'm reading this stuff from like Penn today.
Cause that could also like feed into the, um, urgency of its ramp up, you know, of people
wanting to participate because they feel like there's this impending.
Well, and I've always thought about this and I, and I hate to say this, but like, cause
I know that Christianity is like a big deal and like, you know, I grew up as a Catholic
in Catholic church and things like that.
And I've gone to other churches.
I've actually been to Mormon churches with friends that were Mormon when I was younger.
My parents were very good about letting me go like experience other things.
Well, Jesus, in my opinion is kind of a cult leader.
Like he was martyred.
I did not know that was coming.
I know.
But like, if you think about it, but I don't necessarily like, so, but okay.
So if you dig into it, most of these cult leaders are doing something like, I won't,
I'll say evil, I guess.
They're doing something that's like against the law or like not good.
So like things that people think are devious.
So they're having sex with children.
Yeah.
And from what we know, Jesus wasn't doing any of that stuff.
So that's, that's a differentiator, right?
Oh, for sure.
So thank God.
What about that Virgin Mary?
I mean, you know, but what she's saying, you better say it again.
Say it again.
I said, what about that Virgin Mary though?
Well, you're this truth.
And she, look, I'm not going to question mark.
Still, I'm not going to say anything about that because I might go to H E L double hockey
sticks.
That's if you believe there is one.
Okay.
Well, that's true.
Okay.
So a cult is a term used to demonize a movement that is controversial and it's, or it's a
threat to main mainstream society.
Okay.
And I know Sarah is like, she, we were, I won't even be like ready to be done.
And she is like already corked up the wine.
She's drinker drink and she's got her vape in her hand, ready to walk out of the door.
You do this every time.
Okay.
Well, you don't look comfortable to me.
You look like you're about to walk out.
So gotta go.
So cults.
Okay.
So first of all, do y'all think based on the, okay, so hold on.
Cults will rush you into joining.
Right.
They dismiss any questions that people have about like their inner works or whatever.
And they may put you, tell you like, Hey, go look at these documents and go do these,
um, review these videos.
Yeah.
These videos.
And then when you get done with those videos, you're more confused and you forgot what your
questions were and you're like, and it told you not to ask any questions.
Shiny ball syndrome.
Yeah.
It's like indoctrinated.
Look at this while we're doing this.
Yes.
Like for babies, like they squeak squeak, like a mobile on your crib.
The cult leader is a higher power.
The legit religion will have you worshiping a higher source.
Yeah.
Like a prophet.
Yeah.
It's a red flag.
If the leader claims to be the only person who can speak for a particular God or holy
being apparently, that's what every cult leader does.
Exactly.
So that's a red flag.
But like, I just, I can't wrap my head around me just meeting somebody and get, be getting
brought into this like, I don't know, group and just this one person being introduced
as like the quote unquote leader and just being like, Oh hell yeah.
Everything they say is like amazing.
I'm just following the word of this one person that claims to be this prophet or whatever.
It's like, how, why did you get to make that decision?
Exactly.
Well, I don't think that that's, I totally understand what you're saying, but I think
that that's like the whole point is that you're preying on people or what you're offering
is this grandiose thing, whatever.
How in the world do you think that NXIVM got all these people to join?
They were advertising executive professionalism.
Yeah.
And then you have this following and then it turns into something completely different.
Yeah.
So cult control rather than guide.
Okay.
They have people watching to make sure that you're doing what you're supposed to do.
And a lot of times they'll have like in these things that they've had, they'll say that
like say you're a new member and I've been there for a little bit.
You're new and they're going to put me over there to watch you to make sure you don't
disappear.
Do what not to watch me probably befriend me and get a feel of what my thoughts, feelings
are and talk to you, get you to tell me things.
Yeah.
Make me feel comfortable and peel me like an onion and try and figure me out.
Yeah.
So that they can find something bad about you so that they can use it against you.
Exactly.
Am I going to be an asset?
So that you can't get out.
Or am I going to be an enemy?
And if I'm an enemy, what is my deepest, darkest secret that you can hold against me to make
me shut up?
Well, my thing is like if you're an enemy, why don't you just get them out ASAP?
If you're not going to be against it, why do you want to keep them?
I'm sure that they do that with some folks and maybe the ones that they just find resourceful
in some aspect, whether it be connections or finances, whatever, maybe keep those people
around first or reason.
True.
Yeah.
So essentially they're micromanaging your life.
Yeah.
Right?
So basically what you're telling me is that you're in a cult.
Because I'm at my job.
Oh my God.
I was thinking about this earlier today.
Okay.
So this is another thing that I have, but let me say this last thing and then I'll tell
you my other thoughts about that.
They make it extremely hard to trust fellow followers.
That's another thing.
So they try to make it to where you can't confide.
It's a one to one.
Yes.
You can't say anything to anybody because you don't want to be like, Hey, did he do
this to you?
And then be like, yeah, he did that to me.
And then everybody gangs up on you and you have a group to get out.
So make you feel only comfortable enough with them and no one else.
Essentially our jobs-
Leaving no lifelines.
Yeah.
Essentially, like our jobs, maybe our jobs aren't cults, but like kind of, if you think
about all this stuff, our people who follow bands, sports, all these things that like
everybody's got like, like fish, everybody has like, they go follow these people around.
It's like Jesus essentially.
You meant go fish.
Like all these people that are going fishing.
No, these people that go follow fish, like the band or like follow Dave Matthews or like
follow Grateful Dead.
Hello listeners, I know who the band Taylor Swift.
She's like the Swifties.
Anybody that's watching our podcast entire life, she leaves out panic just to piss me
off.
Hey, guess who we're going to see this weekend.
That's exciting.
I don't leave them out to piss you off.
Why would I do that?
Just not top of mind.
Just like I would not ever name fish in that list.
Cause they're not.
Well, only reason I named fish is cause we were talking about it earlier and I was looking
at the poster.
So we're in a t-shirt.
So the podcast though, like also people follow podcasts and like Joe Rogan, for instance.
I know you have the caller daddy.
Shout out Alex Cooper, father Cooper.
But yeah, like are those like if we're like people are Alabama fans, that's a call.
Like Saban, AKA Nick Satan is, I know he's not Satan, but like, and I think these are
nice to you, but like I call him that cause it's just funny, but that's a cult, right?
But he's also not the only coach that Alabama's ever had.
Like they have still been a cult way before he ever went along.
I mean, talk about the machine.
Like that's a cult.
A hundred percent.
Well, yeah, yeah.
Well, we won't go there.
I guess I'm a little scared about that.
Why they got a machine at UAB?
Everywhere.
Yeah.
I think they got one everywhere.
Interesting.
Yeah.
But like, don't you think that basically our world is kind of made of, yes.
Yeah, I think that's fair.
If you think about it.
It's just like the severity of the level that your cult.
Oh, for sure.
I mean, even monopolies in with like Alabama power.
I mean, it's the only one we got.
We don't have a choice.
A monopoly and a cult are a little different.
I know that they're not the same.
I'm just saying.
Well, but so, OK, so for instance, if we didn't have rules and laws and stuff and we grew
up and we didn't weren't told, hey, nobody should rape you.
Nobody should do these things to you.
Nobody should touch you before you're, you know, 18 years old.
Or we probably did.
But you know, that was with consent.
With consent.
No, unconsent.
Yeah, that kind of stuff.
Non-consensual.
If we didn't have people telling us that these things were not allowed, then we wouldn't
know what is allowed.
And somebody else could be like, oh, it's OK to do this.
Yeah.
And so this essentially somebody one day decided that we're going to come to America and make
this place a religious freedom place.
But we have rules in place to make sure that other things don't happen.
It's just in other countries, technically, they don't do the same thing.
And we could call those places.
They could be cults.
Really, our lives are just a bunch of mini cults.
Our group friends friend group is a freaking cult.
It is.
I mean, I don't know who the leader is.
We don't really have a leader and nobody's getting any money.
But sorry.
Drink.
Yeah.
But yeah, I don't know.
I think it's interesting.
But I also think Jesus is the biggest cult and he started all the rest of the cults.
And that's a really controversial subject.
But it is.
And I'm not digging in.
Christianity started.
All these other cults have spun off of Christianity.
Well, Christianity wasn't the first religion.
Well, of course, but.
But I concur.
Yeah.
I mean, they're all the same.
It's just like that one evolves to be the largest and has the most supporters that blindly
support anything that's written in this book that they read.
I just want to understand, like, where these people like from the Mommy's Doomsday thing
got the zombie part.
Like who comes up with that and like who follows that?
If somebody was like, they're a zombie.
I'm like, have you been watching too much Walking Dead?
Because I love that show, but I'm not going to like think it's real life.
But you know, it doesn't just start with that conversation.
It's like, like, it's got to start somewhere, but it sure as shit ain't that.
But if if you were to come to me as we haven't known each other for a million years, but
like if you were we've known each other longer than a lot of these cult leaders have known
the people that they recruit.
Yeah.
And you were to come to me and be like, Emily, these are the things that I think.
And I think that zombies, people turn to zombies.
I'd be like, are you kidding me?
And I'd probably call your parents and be like, she needs help.
I don't know.
I'd probably text somebody.
I'd probably be like, Brandon, help.
Somebody like who's been talking to you?
What is going on?
You know what I mean?
I would honestly think it was just like this long satirical like act you're putting on
for the day for some reason.
Well I don't think I'm a very global person.
And I don't think that I have a creative enough mind to come up with some of the I disagree
to become up with your uncle.
I disagree.
I always think she's not creative and doesn't have any special talents.
And I freaking disagree.
I don't have special talents.
Whatever.
What's my special talent, Jerry?
I said it was you did.
Well, of course, my own sister hasn't listened to this last week's episode or two weeks ago.
My special talent is talking.
So we had.
Yeah.
So I don't know where I asked her if she had any hidden talents.
And mine is that I can blow bubbles.
Oh, a hidden talent.
Yeah.
I know what yours are or were at least.
What used to be able to hold a pin between your shoulder blades and put your feet behind
your head.
I don't know if I can still do that.
That's that's that's a skill.
You got some crazy ass scapula's.
Is like something that is like this repeatable thing that you can put on like a show with
me.
Wow.
You can legit blow bubbles.
Wow.
Last time I tried to do it, my spit wasn't thick enough.
I've been doing that since I was a kid.
She's trying.
I don't think I have it like an actual talent.
I don't.
Can you sing?
God, no.
Hell no.
She can't even keep up with the words.
She sounded good earlier when she was saying John Jacob Jingleheimer Smith.
John Jacob Dinger.
I cannot sing like like no, that's bad.
That's.
You probably can.
I think that everyone can sing.
They just don't know.
No, I think the right thing to do is sing the right thing.
No, no, no, no.
My former partner in life was a musician and could sing, had all the musical talents, could
play multiple instruments.
And one day told me while we were singing in the car that I was tone deaf.
He was jealous.
I don't think that's right.
I mean, I love her.
She's my sister, but it's her and Brandon are the exact same person singing in the car.
They cannot sing on key or at the right time.
Are you trying to sing?
Are you trying?
Are you just like doing it goofy?
Because that's how I feel.
I'm not on.
I can't do it.
I know I can not sing, so it's not like I'm in the car really trying to put on a
performance.
Oh, I'm having a damn concert.
But I'm like, we're going to practice on the way home.
I'm singing along.
I'm having a good time singing the song, but I'm not like putting on a concert.
Well, that's how I feel too.
So like if somebody was like, if I was in the car singing, I'm not singing like if I
were going to have to like have be like a Beyonce, but like also I'm not going to do
that because I know it probably doesn't sound that good.
And I'm a little scared.
Like, you know what I mean?
So but I think you have talents.
I just don't know if you know what they are.
And I don't know.
Maybe like, I don't know.
You have talents.
Your talent is like planning trips.
Is that a talent?
No.
All right.
We'll wrap it up.
Okay.
Catch us on Instagram, Sarah.
Tell us where to catch us.
I mean, first we're going to thank Jerry for joining us.
Thank you.
I know you were nervous, but you did a great job.
You did so good.
You're just like your mom.
You look just like her.
So does Sarah, but you look really a lot like her.
You think and you talk.
I feel like you talk like her.
I get told I look like my dad a lot.
Oh, I've never met your dad.
So I don't know.
She has Charles Snows.
Yes.
And his, um, face.
Yeah.
I feel like when I looked at you earlier tonight, I was like, you look just like your mom, but
maybe, but if you put all three of us together, I take the cake.
Yeah.
Even I use one of the old filters on tick tock the other day and I was like, oh shit, this
is done.
Oh, you did.
Yeah.
Okay.
Anyways here, that was our call episode.
We hope you liked it.
It was kind of chaotic, but whatever.
It's how we roll.
Thanks Jerry for being here.
You can find us on Instagram at thick AF podcast, send us an email at thickafpodcast at gmail.com.
See you next week.
Bye.
jackie............
ABCDEFG, I have to go.
I don't know why it's so good.