Hello and welcome to my next show. I'm actually very very lucky today I'm being joined by
Lisa, my wife. She's going to join me today to talk about the other side of things with
regards to the diagnosis of MS because obviously it does affect the person obviously in a very
very serious manner but actually it does also impact the family around that person. So today
completely off script not a single script written no interest in that we're just going to have a
conversation about how things have been for the last 10 years or so and up to date because as I
say up to date is where it's really become a massive issue. So bear with us it's the first
time we've ever done anything like this so please please forgive us if this doesn't work quite as
well as it should but we're going to try our best and what you will find is we're very fun people
together so we're going to do lots of laughing and joking because that's the kind of married couple
we are. So here we go we're going to start very very lightly. From your point of view
how did all this start? How did it come about? Well obviously you came back from the Olympics
didn't you and you had what you thought at the time was just poorly fit. Yeah yeah absolutely.
And then obviously putting a lot out there you went to the doctors and they gave you medication for
athlete's foot. We've got your treatment from chemists for this athlete's foot but it just would
never go away and you was at work one night when one of the army people if you remember mentioned
to you that he didn't believe that that would be athlete's foot. That's correct I was working as a
doorman at the time and yeah it was very much a case of when I had this conversation with this
chap he literally said to me he said there's no way that's just athlete's foot and of course me
being me I just totally ignored it didn't I? Yeah and then everything else just sort of like
got ignored and we just kept accepting it was obviously just athlete's foot. Fast forward a few
years that you thought the infection from this foot problem had traveled to your legs. Yep.
And then you went to the doctors not long ago actually was it it was about last year? Yeah it
would have been back in the last year wouldn't it? Oh no it was around our wedding. Yes. Because
you got put on some special tablets but then you said that you couldn't drink with them. That's
correct yeah yeah at our wedding and I couldn't drink that's just not right at all but there you
go. And then they were doing some investigating then because they thought the tablets that you
was on could affect your liver. Yep. And then they kept doing more and more with antibiotics
with antibiotics and more tablets and then your symptoms just kept getting worse and then it was
a case of you need to go to the doctor. It was about that sort of point wasn't it sort of back
end of last year where it really was made clear that actually this MRI scan got to happen. Yeah.
And you know I went for that scan and I was scared. Yeah really really scared because you
rang me from the hospital saying that you couldn't have it done. Yep. And you was really disappointed
in yourself. I was. It was really early in the morning because you rang me while I was feeling bad.
Yes. And I could just hear in your voice that you sounded so disheartened at the fact that you
couldn't have it done and then you said we're never going to find out what's wrong. Yep. And
then you'd done some online research for open scanners for MRIs and obviously we then paid
privately and that's when it started piecing the puzzle together. It did that's right and if you
remember after that first scan I didn't notice what I later noticed actually on that paperwork
where at the very very bottom in the smallest possible writing it said about if there was a
concern of demyelination a second scan with contrast dye would be necessary. Yep. If you
remember we didn't even really pay any attention to that did we because I came home and I gave you
the report as soon as I got it and we sort of read through it. Yeah you were able to have a look wasn't you at
the pictures and you was fascinated. I was. We were literally studying them like we were the you know
what are they called? It's not synophys or anything. Yeah no I'm not so sure but yeah no it was very much a case of
we were sort of looking at it as if to say oh right well we can see this we can see that.
Exactly it was brilliant. Yeah I must admit it was it's weird to look at when you're looking at it and
you're thinking hang on that's inside my body. Yeah because then we had you know in Grandad round
that weekend and your grandad was really interested in saying oh so this is and it was like your whole
inside was being shown around the table. It was brilliant it really was quite interesting but yeah I mean it was
it was sort of after that it was a good few months after that wasn't it. Yeah it was quite a long
a long process and I think because you know you've got to wait it feels longer than it actually was.
Definitely because we then got told by the doctor that I had to have this second scan
with the contrast dye. And then I started putting some things together and I said
yeah you know could it be MS. Yes absolutely and to be honest with you. Everyone was like no no it can't be that
and I was well you've got this symptom you've got that symptom you've got this one and it was sort of
all adding up and in my head I thought I knew it would be MS. Yeah but everybody else around thought
it could be fibromyalgia. Could it just be something to do with your knees because you had a problem
with your knee when you was doing football. Or could it be weight because you was over it was weight.
Yeah I was absolutely positive. You went on a thing of losing weight. Yeah I did and you know what did I lose in a very short bit.
I think I got three in a bit. It's about three yeah it's about three three and a half stone in
best part of 10 months. Yeah. I dropped and I must admit. You could see in your face that you'd
lost quite a lot. Yeah. From my point you looked quite poorly. Yeah yeah. And obviously we hadn't
seen my sister even for quite a long time because of Covid. And when she came up she then said that
you looked poorly. Yeah. And then obviously more doctors appointments came and at the time the doctor
would see you a little bit more. He's done some more tests and I remember when you came out and
obviously you said that you've got a potential of what it could be. Well this is this is our point.
So we had that second scan and they called me in for that doctor's appointment and as I've said
previously on a previous podcast I walked in there and I literally made a joke to the doctor
about oh this is where you're going to tell me there's nothing on it. Yeah and he said he was
so serious and he was like no I'm afraid not. Yeah and he said to me sit down. But you automatically
we was thinking the worst as well wasn't we? We were thinking you know what if it's from the house.
Yeah yeah absolutely. You do and I think as anyone whether it was you going through or a family member
you automatically think this is the worst thing going on. Yep. And I remember you closed off quite
a lot and you sort of bottled a lot up and then once you started to get your diagnosis coming
through you sat in the bath and you said I want to make myself and everybody else aware of everything
else that's going on and you'd set yourself a few little goals and now you've started to do them
and absolutely yourself that you are a lot more positive when it comes to being MS related.
Well this is our point I mean you know and I'll be totally honest um you know when when I first
got told by the doctors to expect the diagnosis of MS if you remember there was quite a few occasions
where for me personally the time where I'd get most emotional was when I was just sat in the bath.
It's because you're on your own. Yeah. And you've got all your thoughts going around because it's
when you're relaxed. Yes absolutely. And because of that your brain can relax and it's a case of
this is actually happening. Yeah. How do I change that? How can I not change the outcome of it but
how can I make a change of the difference that's going on for me, for my family, for other people
and the only way to do that is always keep positive because if you always think negative
you're going to always be down. Absolutely and this is our point I mean from my point of view
from each and every one of those times that I'm later in the bath getting really upset
and thinking to myself I don't know and at the time I knew nothing about MS nothing at all
and I'm sat there and I'm thinking what's going to happen you know what happens I've got this
family that I love and I need to be there for am I going to be able to be there for this family
and it was horrible genuinely it was the most horrible thing in the world. If you remember
the kids started to get a little bit because they picked up that and then obviously we told them
what had gone on and they started to get a little bit oh okay like you was fragile. Yes absolutely.
Absolutely and it was like no we just need everyone to carry on being the fun you know
fun family that we actually are because we are built upon fun laughter and pranks we love it and
that's you know joys of being us. Yeah exactly. And there was some times where even I got a little
bit are you okay are you okay do you remember when we was going shopping are you okay like you're
okay and you said what made me more okay you stopped saying am I okay but you do you sort
of feel like you've got that protection and you got wrapped up in a bit of a bubble and then you
suddenly had to pop that bubble to say look I'm still me I'm here I'm okay yes I struggle
but I'm okay stop asking if I'm okay and it came a habit because whenever we was in the shop and
said are you okay are you okay and he's just like stop looking stop asking if I'm okay and
you can't help it but then recently the kids especially they've got more fun about it. Yeah
absolutely and that to be honest with that's the one thing that right from where I sort of started
to come to terms with everything I wanted everything to be fun I wanted it to be yeah okay this is a
horrible thing. Although it's not a joke we know it's not a joke. No this is a horrible thing but for us and for me
my way of getting through this is actually to try and accept it accept how absolutely horrific it is
it is horrible I mean I'm going to be honest this condition is evil it really is because one day
you could be as okay as possible the next day you could be in absolutely floods of pain and
really struggling to do a thing yeah and quite honestly for me and for us as we've said we are
a very fun family we do have a laugh we do have a joke that's how we get through it for me personally
that's what I need I need the fun aspect yeah you need to keep as normal to yourself as you can
because otherwise as much as you're living with MS you're letting the MS control who you are and
all right it's already starting to take parts of the person themselves but you still need to remember
that you are a fighter yes and you know you're living with it and it's it's you know it's not
there to be nice but you can't let it control your life quite right absolutely you know that is
absolutely spot on for me I am very lucky I've said this in previous podcasts I am very very lucky
that I've got a family that are there no matter what they're there they support me and I've got
to be honest with you you're incredible at what you do you really are absolutely fantastic
and you just got to keep going exactly and we do that now that's probably enough on the sort of real basic
aspect of it in terms of the deterioration that you're seeing because obviously yeah from my
point of view I know over the last few months how difficult things have become for me personally
how is that for you seeing that and what is it you're seeing I'm seeing somebody that
you have always been quite a strong able-bodied person that would literally do whatever they
possibly can you still do that you have struggles and you know you do get a little bit
sad when you know that I can't do anymore and we're there to pick up the pieces to help that
because we still want you to be you it is heartbreaking seeing that you've gone from that
strong independent you know young man to now young man I like it to now being dependent on
your sticks or your chair or your you know your scooter and I know that you've been through
a scooter and I know that that breaks you which then breaks me yeah but you don't give in no and
even if you was on your you know on your backside you would still find a way of doing it and that's
you know the determination that you keep giving and that you know we love you for that because
you're not going to allow it to be who you are no and that's exactly it and this is it is hard
there's times where I think you know if I could take it away from you and I'll take it I would
oh thankfully you can't do that as I've said to you previously from my point of view this is my
cross to bear it's ours because at the end of the day you've got the fight we've got the fight and
you're stronger when we're all together yes absolutely you know I think the hardest thing
for any person you know to see their loved one deteriorate is the fact that you know
that it's hurting them just as much as it's hurting you if not worse yeah yeah without a doubt
and that's the whole point and this is why this conversation was actually quite good because
getting this out there for everyone to listen to he's been wanting me to come on here for ages
that's true it's very true I've been going on for a long time and I think it was one of the kids the
other day I think you've really upset him you really want you to come out there welcome to
the studio but yeah I mean this is my point to get this out there because again there's going
to be other people out in the world who maybe don't understand and don't realize that look at
the difference because one of our mates have got ms yes and she's now competing in 5k runs yes um
because hers thankfully has got to a point where she's doing all right with it isn't she yeah she
certainly seems to be um and I think your point is because you've not on your treatment and we're
still waiting for that and I think you've got the you know sitting and waiting game and I think
that's what's eating you up more than anything else because you don't know which way to you know
to turn yeah and I'll be honest I think you're seeing that absolutely right and we've had this
conversation of all day where from my point of view this sitting and waiting game is absolutely
breaking me it really is and I totally understand that at the moment things are difficult but
actually people out there and I by no means am I saying I'm in a worse condition than anyone else
my heart goes out to each and every one of them without no matter what the condition is whether
you know it's ms or anything my heart actually breaks for all of them yeah not just you know them
as an individual but the whole family it's because it's not just that one person's fight
yeah it's everyone's but you know it is heartbreaking at the fact that everyone just gets
ignored yeah without a doubt what's the one thing that you see with the decline that I've had
that is more surprising to you i.e physically um that the physical change is even mentally
what sort of things do you surprises you about what you're seeing well your mobility is not
great anymore that's an understatement I joked that I'm gonna buy you a zimmer friend for christmas
you did yes um but no joking aside it it's a little bit of everything obviously because
you've always been quite good with your memory yeah you've always remembered everything no
matter what it is you're the first person yeah I remember that I remember that I can do that
but now the slightest little I mean what your your long-term memory is is brilliant yeah I mean I
said as I said things from being back home when he was little yeah I mean I literally I can still
remember my very first ever football coach and I'm not not going to name him because that's not
fair but I can remember his name I can remember what he looked like and I can remember certain
training sessions that he put on for my junior school football team I can literally remember that
but yeah as you're saying things like I can put a set of keys down or a chocolate bar that I've
left in the fridge yeah that you've eaten but you can't remember eating it um yeah I mean that
that has happened let's be totally honest it's happened um no it is just a bit of everything
yeah I mean the same memory wise I'll be honest with you um I'm there with you because that's
horrible you could do the same you was fit as a fiddle yeah um I don't know if you use them terms
anymore because obviously it's something my dad would have said no I'll be honest it's a perfectly
reasonable um comment I'd say fit as a fiddle is something that I would have always yeah you've
always been quite healthy yeah I'll be honest with you I mean until this blimey I probably
went to the doctors once every never yeah once every less than blue moon I mean I would avoid
the doctors like a plague and just crack on to see them no and now they've become your best
thing yeah basically they might as well give me a spare room because it is very much a case of
you're getting a pro it'll really yeah yeah and I mean let's be honest as you've said in terms of
MRI scan where I was inside out now but horrific I mean that was just the most horrific thing in
the world to me is an MRI scan but actually through help that I've received on support group
uh on top of what I did with you they really were absolutely fantastic um and on top of the bits I
kind of taught myself and again I've done this on a previous podcast where I've explained
um how I now cope with an MRI scan do you know what I've got no fear for them I've gone from
crying to you on the phone to laying in there listening to a bit of music and all right
all right we've been in here for an hour and a half boom job done thanks very much appreciate
that see you again in a year yeah basically in your case literally constantly at the minute yeah
more or less more or less but yeah I mean that's that's kind of where things are um in terms of
how it's seen on both sides and as you can tell pain is another one because obviously again you're
not one of these that have always had pain and you've always had quite a good pain threshold
sort of thing and on that you're like me because we don't really do pain but it is hard seeing
and hearing because obviously you try not to let on but we know these things we're not stupid
and hearing how you know restless you are because you're in pain and tends to be in bed at night
yeah it is and you suddenly suffer with that is it restless leg syndrome or whatever and
yeah you suddenly you're star fishing and you don't realize it but your leg is just sort of
like going around like a blooming shark in the sea and it is it's it's hard and I just feel like
how can I help you more when nobody knows what else to do yeah yeah quite right and this is
from my point of view it's horrible knowing that actually you're looking at it in that way and
you're desperate to help and I'm desperate for the help let's be honest but actually apart from
doing what you do by just being there there's no other help that can be given and it is it's not
easy I'll be honest it's not easy and that's for me so if it's not easy for me I mean you do have
down days as well don't you most definitely um but you have a lot more good days than you do bad
yeah um not in the physical aspect but in in the mental aspect you do have a lot more good
than bad and that is good because you know I don't know what you feel because again everyone's
different and everyone's got their own ways but you are quite a positive person and you like last
night we was watching telly and you did have a little bit of a soppy moment because you snapped
straight out of it and that's the sort of thing that you would never have done because little
things like that would never have got to you no and let's be honest as I say I've got to a point
we sit and watching a tv program and somebody could be very unwell or dying on a tv program
never used to bother me I could sit and watch it now you could watch all the gory stuff yeah now
exactly I sit and watch these tv programs actually it upsets me it does upset me and I can't work
out why I'll be honest I really can't work out why I think we've had a big role reverse yeah
yeah quite a serious one yeah that was always you but now these days yeah I always have like a pillow
in front of me yeah basically yeah very much the case but yeah I mean that's that's that's a good
conversation as I say hopefully this comes across quite well to you all because as I say MS is a
horrible condition it is and again I'm going to use the term it's evil it's evil and I'm going
to go so far as to say it's actually insidious because one minute you're kind of all right and
then all of a sudden it creeps up boom yeah it attacks you somewhere and that to me that's the
definition of evil and quite honestly everyone out there and I believe I've said this previously
always make sure that you do know where you can turn you know whether that's friends family
whether that's charities please turn to someone talk to them and just explain how you're feeling
because as we say I've had times where and I still haven't where actually this gets to me in quite a
serious manner yeah it does but as you can hear thankfully I've got incredible support really have
and I want everyone to kind of have some understanding of the support that's out there to them
for this type of thing because we all need someone whether that's someone we know or whether that's
someone we don't we all need somebody to turn to now just remember that you're more stronger than
you actually believe you are most definitely you know and everyone's got a fight in them
yep and even on your worst days just remember you've got it yep and you can keep going you
definitely can I think that'll probably do for today the one thing I'm going to do very briefly
because Lisa has got her own social media channels so I'm going to hand you over to Lisa just for
a few seconds and she's going to let you know her social media channel name because again her
channels are based on fun just fun nothing else and to be fair she goes out of her way to try
and make people smile as Peter Pan says never grow up quite do you know what absolutely spot on so
over to Lisa she's going to very quickly let you know her social media channels please if you want
to go over and follow her and at some point she will make you smile that's certain please keep
her listen out for her laugh no please please keep that listen out it's worth it believe me over to
you right well my TikTok and Instagram is Lisa and the mad house you're more than welcome to
follow me if you want I do crazy funny silly stuff that that's just me it's what I do I'm
not everyone's cup of tea but I've just had a cup of tea so I'm obviously me I'm drinking mine yeah
mine is nothing to do with you know Mike's or always ms obviously I do have in my mind so if
you're on his you can find mine on his um yeah mine is just about me being crazy funny and stupid
all right well as I always say I really appreciate each and every one of you for listening
um every time I see those numbers tick up genuinely a sense of pride is is huge
yeah he comes running I've got another one well thank you all for listening thank you
and I will talk to you all in a week's time speak to you soon bye bye