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Hello and welcome to my next show. I'm actually very very lucky today I'm being joined by

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Lisa, my wife. She's going to join me today to talk about the other side of things with

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regards to the diagnosis of MS because obviously it does affect the person obviously in a very

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very serious manner but actually it does also impact the family around that person. So today

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completely off script not a single script written no interest in that we're just going to have a

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conversation about how things have been for the last 10 years or so and up to date because as I

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say up to date is where it's really become a massive issue. So bear with us it's the first

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time we've ever done anything like this so please please forgive us if this doesn't work quite as

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well as it should but we're going to try our best and what you will find is we're very fun people

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together so we're going to do lots of laughing and joking because that's the kind of married couple

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we are. So here we go we're going to start very very lightly. From your point of view

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how did all this start? How did it come about? Well obviously you came back from the Olympics

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didn't you and you had what you thought at the time was just poorly fit. Yeah yeah absolutely.

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And then obviously putting a lot out there you went to the doctors and they gave you medication for

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athlete's foot. We've got your treatment from chemists for this athlete's foot but it just would

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never go away and you was at work one night when one of the army people if you remember mentioned

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to you that he didn't believe that that would be athlete's foot. That's correct I was working as a

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doorman at the time and yeah it was very much a case of when I had this conversation with this

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chap he literally said to me he said there's no way that's just athlete's foot and of course me

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being me I just totally ignored it didn't I? Yeah and then everything else just sort of like

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got ignored and we just kept accepting it was obviously just athlete's foot. Fast forward a few

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years that you thought the infection from this foot problem had traveled to your legs. Yep.

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And then you went to the doctors not long ago actually was it it was about last year? Yeah it

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would have been back in the last year wouldn't it? Oh no it was around our wedding. Yes. Because

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you got put on some special tablets but then you said that you couldn't drink with them. That's

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correct yeah yeah at our wedding and I couldn't drink that's just not right at all but there you

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go. And then they were doing some investigating then because they thought the tablets that you

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was on could affect your liver. Yep. And then they kept doing more and more with antibiotics

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with antibiotics and more tablets and then your symptoms just kept getting worse and then it was

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a case of you need to go to the doctor. It was about that sort of point wasn't it sort of back

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end of last year where it really was made clear that actually this MRI scan got to happen. Yeah.

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And you know I went for that scan and I was scared. Yeah really really scared because you

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rang me from the hospital saying that you couldn't have it done. Yep. And you was really disappointed

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in yourself. I was. It was really early in the morning because you rang me while I was feeling bad.

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Yes. And I could just hear in your voice that you sounded so disheartened at the fact that you

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couldn't have it done and then you said we're never going to find out what's wrong. Yep. And

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then you'd done some online research for open scanners for MRIs and obviously we then paid

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privately and that's when it started piecing the puzzle together. It did that's right and if you

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remember after that first scan I didn't notice what I later noticed actually on that paperwork

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where at the very very bottom in the smallest possible writing it said about if there was a

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concern of demyelination a second scan with contrast dye would be necessary. Yep. If you

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remember we didn't even really pay any attention to that did we because I came home and I gave you

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the report as soon as I got it and we sort of read through it. Yeah you were able to have a look wasn't you at

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the pictures and you was fascinated. I was. We were literally studying them like we were the you know

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what are they called? It's not synophys or anything. Yeah no I'm not so sure but yeah no it was very much a case of

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we were sort of looking at it as if to say oh right well we can see this we can see that.

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Exactly it was brilliant. Yeah I must admit it was it's weird to look at when you're looking at it and

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you're thinking hang on that's inside my body. Yeah because then we had you know in Grandad round

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that weekend and your grandad was really interested in saying oh so this is and it was like your whole

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inside was being shown around the table. It was brilliant it really was quite interesting but yeah I mean it was

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it was sort of after that it was a good few months after that wasn't it. Yeah it was quite a long

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a long process and I think because you know you've got to wait it feels longer than it actually was.

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Definitely because we then got told by the doctor that I had to have this second scan

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with the contrast dye. And then I started putting some things together and I said

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yeah you know could it be MS. Yes absolutely and to be honest with you. Everyone was like no no it can't be that

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and I was well you've got this symptom you've got that symptom you've got this one and it was sort of

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all adding up and in my head I thought I knew it would be MS. Yeah but everybody else around thought

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it could be fibromyalgia. Could it just be something to do with your knees because you had a problem

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with your knee when you was doing football. Or could it be weight because you was over it was weight.

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Yeah I was absolutely positive. You went on a thing of losing weight. Yeah I did and you know what did I lose in a very short bit.

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I think I got three in a bit. It's about three yeah it's about three three and a half stone in

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best part of 10 months. Yeah. I dropped and I must admit. You could see in your face that you'd

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lost quite a lot. Yeah. From my point you looked quite poorly. Yeah yeah. And obviously we hadn't

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seen my sister even for quite a long time because of Covid. And when she came up she then said that

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you looked poorly. Yeah. And then obviously more doctors appointments came and at the time the doctor

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would see you a little bit more. He's done some more tests and I remember when you came out and

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obviously you said that you've got a potential of what it could be. Well this is this is our point.

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So we had that second scan and they called me in for that doctor's appointment and as I've said

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previously on a previous podcast I walked in there and I literally made a joke to the doctor

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about oh this is where you're going to tell me there's nothing on it. Yeah and he said he was

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so serious and he was like no I'm afraid not. Yeah and he said to me sit down. But you automatically

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we was thinking the worst as well wasn't we? We were thinking you know what if it's from the house.

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Yeah yeah absolutely. You do and I think as anyone whether it was you going through or a family member

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you automatically think this is the worst thing going on. Yep. And I remember you closed off quite

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a lot and you sort of bottled a lot up and then once you started to get your diagnosis coming

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through you sat in the bath and you said I want to make myself and everybody else aware of everything

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else that's going on and you'd set yourself a few little goals and now you've started to do them

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and absolutely yourself that you are a lot more positive when it comes to being MS related.

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Well this is our point I mean you know and I'll be totally honest um you know when when I first

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got told by the doctors to expect the diagnosis of MS if you remember there was quite a few occasions

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where for me personally the time where I'd get most emotional was when I was just sat in the bath.

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It's because you're on your own. Yeah. And you've got all your thoughts going around because it's

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when you're relaxed. Yes absolutely. And because of that your brain can relax and it's a case of

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this is actually happening. Yeah. How do I change that? How can I not change the outcome of it but

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how can I make a change of the difference that's going on for me, for my family, for other people

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and the only way to do that is always keep positive because if you always think negative

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you're going to always be down. Absolutely and this is our point I mean from my point of view

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from each and every one of those times that I'm later in the bath getting really upset

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and thinking to myself I don't know and at the time I knew nothing about MS nothing at all

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and I'm sat there and I'm thinking what's going to happen you know what happens I've got this

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family that I love and I need to be there for am I going to be able to be there for this family

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and it was horrible genuinely it was the most horrible thing in the world. If you remember

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the kids started to get a little bit because they picked up that and then obviously we told them

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what had gone on and they started to get a little bit oh okay like you was fragile. Yes absolutely.

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Absolutely and it was like no we just need everyone to carry on being the fun you know

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fun family that we actually are because we are built upon fun laughter and pranks we love it and

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that's you know joys of being us. Yeah exactly. And there was some times where even I got a little

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bit are you okay are you okay do you remember when we was going shopping are you okay like you're

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okay and you said what made me more okay you stopped saying am I okay but you do you sort

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of feel like you've got that protection and you got wrapped up in a bit of a bubble and then you

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suddenly had to pop that bubble to say look I'm still me I'm here I'm okay yes I struggle

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but I'm okay stop asking if I'm okay and it came a habit because whenever we was in the shop and

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said are you okay are you okay and he's just like stop looking stop asking if I'm okay and

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you can't help it but then recently the kids especially they've got more fun about it. Yeah

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absolutely and that to be honest with that's the one thing that right from where I sort of started

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to come to terms with everything I wanted everything to be fun I wanted it to be yeah okay this is a

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horrible thing. Although it's not a joke we know it's not a joke. No this is a horrible thing but for us and for me

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my way of getting through this is actually to try and accept it accept how absolutely horrific it is

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it is horrible I mean I'm going to be honest this condition is evil it really is because one day

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you could be as okay as possible the next day you could be in absolutely floods of pain and

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really struggling to do a thing yeah and quite honestly for me and for us as we've said we are

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a very fun family we do have a laugh we do have a joke that's how we get through it for me personally

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that's what I need I need the fun aspect yeah you need to keep as normal to yourself as you can

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because otherwise as much as you're living with MS you're letting the MS control who you are and

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all right it's already starting to take parts of the person themselves but you still need to remember

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that you are a fighter yes and you know you're living with it and it's it's you know it's not

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there to be nice but you can't let it control your life quite right absolutely you know that is

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absolutely spot on for me I am very lucky I've said this in previous podcasts I am very very lucky

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that I've got a family that are there no matter what they're there they support me and I've got

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to be honest with you you're incredible at what you do you really are absolutely fantastic

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and you just got to keep going exactly and we do that now that's probably enough on the sort of real basic

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aspect of it in terms of the deterioration that you're seeing because obviously yeah from my

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point of view I know over the last few months how difficult things have become for me personally

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how is that for you seeing that and what is it you're seeing I'm seeing somebody that

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you have always been quite a strong able-bodied person that would literally do whatever they

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possibly can you still do that you have struggles and you know you do get a little bit

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sad when you know that I can't do anymore and we're there to pick up the pieces to help that

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because we still want you to be you it is heartbreaking seeing that you've gone from that

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strong independent you know young man to now young man I like it to now being dependent on

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your sticks or your chair or your you know your scooter and I know that you've been through

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a scooter and I know that that breaks you which then breaks me yeah but you don't give in no and

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even if you was on your you know on your backside you would still find a way of doing it and that's

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you know the determination that you keep giving and that you know we love you for that because

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you're not going to allow it to be who you are no and that's exactly it and this is it is hard

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there's times where I think you know if I could take it away from you and I'll take it I would

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oh thankfully you can't do that as I've said to you previously from my point of view this is my

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cross to bear it's ours because at the end of the day you've got the fight we've got the fight and

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you're stronger when we're all together yes absolutely you know I think the hardest thing

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for any person you know to see their loved one deteriorate is the fact that you know

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that it's hurting them just as much as it's hurting you if not worse yeah yeah without a doubt

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and that's the whole point and this is why this conversation was actually quite good because

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getting this out there for everyone to listen to he's been wanting me to come on here for ages

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that's true it's very true I've been going on for a long time and I think it was one of the kids the

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other day I think you've really upset him you really want you to come out there welcome to

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the studio but yeah I mean this is my point to get this out there because again there's going

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to be other people out in the world who maybe don't understand and don't realize that look at

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the difference because one of our mates have got ms yes and she's now competing in 5k runs yes um

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because hers thankfully has got to a point where she's doing all right with it isn't she yeah she

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certainly seems to be um and I think your point is because you've not on your treatment and we're

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still waiting for that and I think you've got the you know sitting and waiting game and I think

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that's what's eating you up more than anything else because you don't know which way to you know

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to turn yeah and I'll be honest I think you're seeing that absolutely right and we've had this

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conversation of all day where from my point of view this sitting and waiting game is absolutely

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breaking me it really is and I totally understand that at the moment things are difficult but

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actually people out there and I by no means am I saying I'm in a worse condition than anyone else

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my heart goes out to each and every one of them without no matter what the condition is whether

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you know it's ms or anything my heart actually breaks for all of them yeah not just you know them

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as an individual but the whole family it's because it's not just that one person's fight

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yeah it's everyone's but you know it is heartbreaking at the fact that everyone just gets

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ignored yeah without a doubt what's the one thing that you see with the decline that I've had

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that is more surprising to you i.e physically um that the physical change is even mentally

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what sort of things do you surprises you about what you're seeing well your mobility is not

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great anymore that's an understatement I joked that I'm gonna buy you a zimmer friend for christmas

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you did yes um but no joking aside it it's a little bit of everything obviously because

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you've always been quite good with your memory yeah you've always remembered everything no

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matter what it is you're the first person yeah I remember that I remember that I can do that

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but now the slightest little I mean what your your long-term memory is is brilliant yeah I mean I

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said as I said things from being back home when he was little yeah I mean I literally I can still

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remember my very first ever football coach and I'm not not going to name him because that's not

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fair but I can remember his name I can remember what he looked like and I can remember certain

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training sessions that he put on for my junior school football team I can literally remember that

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but yeah as you're saying things like I can put a set of keys down or a chocolate bar that I've

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left in the fridge yeah that you've eaten but you can't remember eating it um yeah I mean that

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that has happened let's be totally honest it's happened um no it is just a bit of everything

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yeah I mean the same memory wise I'll be honest with you um I'm there with you because that's

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horrible you could do the same you was fit as a fiddle yeah um I don't know if you use them terms

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anymore because obviously it's something my dad would have said no I'll be honest it's a perfectly

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reasonable um comment I'd say fit as a fiddle is something that I would have always yeah you've

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always been quite healthy yeah I'll be honest with you I mean until this blimey I probably

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went to the doctors once every never yeah once every less than blue moon I mean I would avoid

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the doctors like a plague and just crack on to see them no and now they've become your best

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thing yeah basically they might as well give me a spare room because it is very much a case of

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you're getting a pro it'll really yeah yeah and I mean let's be honest as you've said in terms of

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MRI scan where I was inside out now but horrific I mean that was just the most horrific thing in

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the world to me is an MRI scan but actually through help that I've received on support group

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uh on top of what I did with you they really were absolutely fantastic um and on top of the bits I

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kind of taught myself and again I've done this on a previous podcast where I've explained

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um how I now cope with an MRI scan do you know what I've got no fear for them I've gone from

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crying to you on the phone to laying in there listening to a bit of music and all right

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all right we've been in here for an hour and a half boom job done thanks very much appreciate

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that see you again in a year yeah basically in your case literally constantly at the minute yeah

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more or less more or less but yeah I mean that's that's kind of where things are um in terms of

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how it's seen on both sides and as you can tell pain is another one because obviously again you're

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not one of these that have always had pain and you've always had quite a good pain threshold

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sort of thing and on that you're like me because we don't really do pain but it is hard seeing

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and hearing because obviously you try not to let on but we know these things we're not stupid

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and hearing how you know restless you are because you're in pain and tends to be in bed at night

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yeah it is and you suddenly suffer with that is it restless leg syndrome or whatever and

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yeah you suddenly you're star fishing and you don't realize it but your leg is just sort of

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like going around like a blooming shark in the sea and it is it's it's hard and I just feel like

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how can I help you more when nobody knows what else to do yeah yeah quite right and this is

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from my point of view it's horrible knowing that actually you're looking at it in that way and

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you're desperate to help and I'm desperate for the help let's be honest but actually apart from

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doing what you do by just being there there's no other help that can be given and it is it's not

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easy I'll be honest it's not easy and that's for me so if it's not easy for me I mean you do have

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down days as well don't you most definitely um but you have a lot more good days than you do bad

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yeah um not in the physical aspect but in in the mental aspect you do have a lot more good

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than bad and that is good because you know I don't know what you feel because again everyone's

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different and everyone's got their own ways but you are quite a positive person and you like last

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night we was watching telly and you did have a little bit of a soppy moment because you snapped

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straight out of it and that's the sort of thing that you would never have done because little

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things like that would never have got to you no and let's be honest as I say I've got to a point

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we sit and watching a tv program and somebody could be very unwell or dying on a tv program

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never used to bother me I could sit and watch it now you could watch all the gory stuff yeah now

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exactly I sit and watch these tv programs actually it upsets me it does upset me and I can't work

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out why I'll be honest I really can't work out why I think we've had a big role reverse yeah

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yeah quite a serious one yeah that was always you but now these days yeah I always have like a pillow

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in front of me yeah basically yeah very much the case but yeah I mean that's that's that's a good

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conversation as I say hopefully this comes across quite well to you all because as I say MS is a

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horrible condition it is and again I'm going to use the term it's evil it's evil and I'm going

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to go so far as to say it's actually insidious because one minute you're kind of all right and

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then all of a sudden it creeps up boom yeah it attacks you somewhere and that to me that's the

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definition of evil and quite honestly everyone out there and I believe I've said this previously

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always make sure that you do know where you can turn you know whether that's friends family

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whether that's charities please turn to someone talk to them and just explain how you're feeling

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because as we say I've had times where and I still haven't where actually this gets to me in quite a

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serious manner yeah it does but as you can hear thankfully I've got incredible support really have

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and I want everyone to kind of have some understanding of the support that's out there to them

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for this type of thing because we all need someone whether that's someone we know or whether that's

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someone we don't we all need somebody to turn to now just remember that you're more stronger than

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you actually believe you are most definitely you know and everyone's got a fight in them

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yep and even on your worst days just remember you've got it yep and you can keep going you

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definitely can I think that'll probably do for today the one thing I'm going to do very briefly

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because Lisa has got her own social media channels so I'm going to hand you over to Lisa just for

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a few seconds and she's going to let you know her social media channel name because again her

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channels are based on fun just fun nothing else and to be fair she goes out of her way to try

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and make people smile as Peter Pan says never grow up quite do you know what absolutely spot on so

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over to Lisa she's going to very quickly let you know her social media channels please if you want

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to go over and follow her and at some point she will make you smile that's certain please keep

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her listen out for her laugh no please please keep that listen out it's worth it believe me over to

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you right well my TikTok and Instagram is Lisa and the mad house you're more than welcome to

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follow me if you want I do crazy funny silly stuff that that's just me it's what I do I'm

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not everyone's cup of tea but I've just had a cup of tea so I'm obviously me I'm drinking mine yeah

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mine is nothing to do with you know Mike's or always ms obviously I do have in my mind so if

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you're on his you can find mine on his um yeah mine is just about me being crazy funny and stupid

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all right well as I always say I really appreciate each and every one of you for listening

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um every time I see those numbers tick up genuinely a sense of pride is is huge

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yeah he comes running I've got another one well thank you all for listening thank you

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and I will talk to you all in a week's time speak to you soon bye bye