1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,840 Hey, I'm Matt Brownell. 2 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:10,480 And I'm Van Owens. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,160 And I'm Tim Adams. 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:18,120 Welcome to Climbing the Mountain, where we dive into the scriptures and discuss themes, 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,280 connections, and real life application. 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,960 We're kicking off a series here where we're going to examine the Sermon on the Mount and 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:34,760 discuss implications for this teaching for Christians today. 8 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:35,920 Welcome back. 9 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:43,120 We are continuing with a section that we started a couple episodes ago in Matthew 6. 10 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:48,760 And we said at that time that we had this beautiful aside, the Lord's Prayer. 11 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,800 We're coming back to it now. 12 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:56,640 It's I don't know if you grew up with going to confessional or you watched a movie where 13 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:03,480 someone is in there and you heard, hey, say a certain number of our fathers. 14 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,400 A lot of church services pray that prayer at some point. 15 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,200 It's the Lord's Prayer. 16 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:18,080 And it's just another way that this sermon is like the goat, the greatest of all time, 17 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,720 not like a sheep and goat kind of thing. 18 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,840 It's got the goat of prayers in it. 19 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:28,520 And I'm going to tip the scales a little on this discussion from that set and say that 20 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,960 I think there's nothing wrong with praying it word for word. 21 00:01:31,960 --> 00:01:32,960 You can do that. 22 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:36,640 You can do some, sometimes I do that and I think about every word I'm saying, what it 23 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:37,640 means. 24 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:42,720 I've been to a lot of services though that where the audience just recites the prayer 25 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,800 and it feels dead somehow. 26 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:51,320 Like devoid of meaning, just performance, which in the immediate context of what we're 27 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:55,880 looking before, what Jesus was preaching, not doing your acts of worship to be seen by 28 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:56,880 others. 29 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:58,680 It feels ironic in that context. 30 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:06,800 But anyway, it's supposed to be so much more than just recitation, right? 31 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,720 It's not a rote expression on one end. 32 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,400 It's not some magic incantation on the other. 33 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,840 There's so much to this and I'm really excited to get into it. 34 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:23,080 And I'm really excited to invite Ryan Moynihan to this discussion. 35 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:24,680 Ryan joins us here for this. 36 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:26,400 Ryan, do you want to introduce yourself? 37 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:27,400 Hi everyone. 38 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:28,400 I'm Ryan. 39 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:29,400 Thanks for having me. 40 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,760 I love the Bible. 41 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,080 I'm obsessed with learning about the Bible. 42 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:35,560 It's just so fascinating. 43 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,520 A little bit about me. 44 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:42,080 My journey is a long journey, but I took the intellectual route. 45 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:47,200 I was not the touchy-feely kind of guy. 46 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,400 And when I went and tried to figure out if I even thought God exists, just let me to 47 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:52,640 Jesus. 48 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:57,760 And then I got really obsessed with studying the Bible, pre-baptism, pre-Christian life. 49 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,000 And it was a wild journey. 50 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,680 And I just love that I can keep continuing it. 51 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,280 And now I can talk about it with people because back then no one had any idea what I was talking 52 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:08,280 about. 53 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,280 And it was weird. 54 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:16,480 So now I love being part of the community and just being able to join you guys and talk 55 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:17,480 Bible. 56 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:18,480 Awesome. 57 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:19,480 Terrific. 58 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:20,480 Welcome. 59 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:21,480 Van, you want to read this section? 60 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:26,240 I think we're going to do Matthew 6, 5 through 15. 61 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:27,800 Sure thing. 62 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:30,160 Matthew 6 starting in verse 5. 63 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:38,760 And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues 64 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,440 and on the street corners to be seen by others. 65 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,480 Truly I tell you, they've received their reward in full. 66 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:54,080 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door, and pray to your Father who is unseen. 67 00:03:54,080 --> 00:04:00,080 Then your Father who sees what is done is secret, in secret will reward you. 68 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:06,520 And when you pray, do not keep babbling on like pagans, for they think they will be heard 69 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,040 because of their many words. 70 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:13,920 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him. 71 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,080 This then is how you should pray. 72 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,840 Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. 73 00:04:20,840 --> 00:04:26,980 Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. 74 00:04:26,980 --> 00:04:33,640 Give us today our daily bread and forgive us our debts as we also have forgiven our debtors. 75 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:39,560 Then lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. 76 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:44,520 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will 77 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,480 also forgive you. 78 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:53,280 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive you your sins. 79 00:04:53,280 --> 00:04:54,880 Thanks. 80 00:04:54,880 --> 00:05:02,480 So first question, how do we know Jesus intended this prayer to be a template? 81 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,280 Is there anything preceding it in His description of hypocrites and pagans that sheds light 82 00:05:06,280 --> 00:05:07,280 on this? 83 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:10,440 Do you see this as a template? 84 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:12,880 I definitely see it as a template. 85 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,080 Why? 86 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:21,200 So I did something on the Lord's Prayer a while back and it shocked me how Jewish this prayer 87 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:28,320 is, like the form of it, the wording, the phrasing, and then in contrast to the pagans 88 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,480 and repetition. 89 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:38,920 I can go into that more, but I just think it's such a Jewish prayer at its heart and 90 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:43,480 in contrast to the Gentiles who used to just try to pester the gods. 91 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,960 Listen to me, repeating over and over and I think when I think of the Lord's Prayer 92 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:52,840 pre-studying it, I always thought of the Lord's Prayer as kind of like that repetitious, just 93 00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:58,320 make sure you say the exact thing over and over and over. 94 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:04,080 I don't think that's the heart of the prayer and what Jesus is talking about, but there's 95 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,240 some aspect of that in Jewish tradition, I think. 96 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:08,920 Tell me more about that. 97 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:14,320 So when I was looking into it, there's a couple common Jewish prayers that are at the heart 98 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,680 of Judaism and they have been for a really, really long time. 99 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:24,520 One's the Amadah, which is the 18 benedictions or 18 blessings and some of the phrasing in 100 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,960 that is just spot on with what the Lord's Prayer is talking about. 101 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:34,040 The other is the Qadish, which is the mourner's prayer and that's kind of a communal prayer 102 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,400 and you don't really say it alone. 103 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:42,600 But the Amadah is like, you say it three times a day and it's 18 benedictions kind of long 104 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:47,360 and this is almost shrunken down into the heart of the prayer. 105 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,960 That's really interesting. 106 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:54,760 It blew me away when I first looked into it and some of the phrasing we can get into as 107 00:06:54,760 --> 00:07:04,360 we go through the prayer, but the use of the Father, our Father and the name and God's 108 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:09,480 will and kingdom and all of that stuff is just kind of threaded in. 109 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,880 Praying it three times a day. 110 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:17,240 I don't know if anyone's looked into the diddicat, but it even talks about praying the Lord's 111 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:22,680 Prayer three times a day and just kind of those connections that we can get into more. 112 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:23,680 That's very interesting. 113 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:28,560 It feels very Jewish to me after studying it, but pre-studying it, I had no idea how. 114 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:36,000 I almost separated it completely into Christianity prayer, but I don't think that's what Jesus 115 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,120 was getting at. 116 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:39,360 No. 117 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:44,920 You mentioned the pagans would repeat a bunch of things and I love the image from First 118 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:49,920 Kings, I think it's chapter 18 where Elijah's with the priests of Baal. 119 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:55,520 That's a perfect example of this, where they're wailing and he's taunting them after a while 120 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:56,760 as they're marching around. 121 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:01,760 Hey, maybe he's in the bathroom and maybe he just can't hear you. 122 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:02,760 He's gone on a journey. 123 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:07,720 They're yelling louder and cutting themselves. 124 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:12,720 Elijah did one prayer and boom. 125 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,760 I love that. 126 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:21,080 Okay, but yes, there's a big difference between the pagan kind of thing and then I love what 127 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:25,680 you were saying about the Jewish influence on this. 128 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,360 Yeah. 129 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:34,480 When I think about this, I have difficulty seeing from just the text. 130 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:42,640 Jesus explicitly means, pray these words word for word or if he's saying, use this as a 131 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,640 template for your own prayer. 132 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:50,120 It seems like it could be either one from the immediate context from me. 133 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:58,160 What I do know is that Jesus prays many other prayers that are not these words. 134 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:05,240 That would lead me to believe that this is a manner of praying and if I investigate how 135 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:12,040 Jesus prays in other contexts, I think John 17 is a really great example of that. 136 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:18,920 We see a lot of this flow in that prayer and other prayers. 137 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:22,400 That to me gives a lot of credence that this is a template. 138 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:29,960 This is a teaching us how to pray instead of just a set of words. 139 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:36,160 But at the same time, these sets of words are extremely dense and there's so much to 140 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:37,160 unpack. 141 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:42,240 There is I think a lot of power too in being able to recite this exact prayer knowing what 142 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,040 it says, knowing what it means. 143 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:46,040 I think you're right. 144 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:53,520 And knowing, like getting to the heart of what each request or petition is and you could 145 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:54,680 spend a lot more time on it. 146 00:09:54,680 --> 00:09:57,440 I don't think that Jesus is saying like you were saying, like look at some of the other 147 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:58,440 prayers he does. 148 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,920 I don't think he's saying anything against having long prayers. 149 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:09,200 I think he prayed all night before he selected the apostles or even repeating things. 150 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:14,600 Like in the Garden of Gethsemane, he's like going and asking the same thing three times, 151 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,800 but it's not a robotic kind of rote thing. 152 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:20,800 It's really heartfelt. 153 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:21,800 Yeah. 154 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:28,200 I sort of echo what you said in the beginning, Matt, that there's nothing wrong with praying 155 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:32,080 this prayer word for word. 156 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:37,520 Occasionally, but I think and what you were saying, Tim, is something that I was thinking 157 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,960 about as well. 158 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:51,000 Each phrase in this prayer is so packed and dense with meaning and which we'll talk about 159 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:55,240 obviously as we go along here that it does feel like a template. 160 00:10:55,240 --> 00:11:02,360 It does feel like you could stop almost at each line and spend some time just thinking 161 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:09,880 about that concept, praying through what does it mean when you say, hello, be your name 162 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:19,400 and really digging in your relationship with God in the midst of that thought. 163 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:26,320 It feels like both, it feels like it is a prayer that you could just pray, but it also 164 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:34,640 feels like a template for something for you to use to go into a deeper level of prayer. 165 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:35,640 Yeah. 166 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,560 Well, let's dive into each of these segments then. 167 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:42,520 First off, what do you think is special about the way Jesus starts this prayer? 168 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,000 Can anyone call God their father? 169 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,200 Why or why not? 170 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:53,360 So yeah, this was a surprisingly challenging question for me. 171 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,200 Can anybody call God father? 172 00:11:55,200 --> 00:12:07,000 Because sometimes in my own prayer life, it is difficult for me to say the word father 173 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,880 and because I think of all the implications that that word has. 174 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,200 Have I been treating him like a father? 175 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,960 Have I been respectful to him? 176 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:22,240 So if I'm feeling like I've been particularly sinful, I might not say father. 177 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:30,360 I might just say dear God and go into the prayer like that and try to get back to a 178 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,360 place where I feel like I can call him father. 179 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:44,640 So in some ways it is difficult, but in other ways, God is the father of all of us. 180 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,360 He is the one who created us. 181 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:50,040 He made each of us the way that we are. 182 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,200 And so he is our father. 183 00:12:53,200 --> 00:13:00,560 And although I don't think that there's anything wrong with addressing God as father, I think 184 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:03,480 that it's a very, it's a term of intimacy. 185 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:04,480 Yeah. 186 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:05,480 Yeah. 187 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:06,480 There is that tension though, right? 188 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,520 Like yes, he's our father. 189 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:09,720 He's created in that sense. 190 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,840 He's, you know, he's ultimate creator and we've been made in his image. 191 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,240 So he's our father in that sense. 192 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,200 But then he's also our father in heaven. 193 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,480 And so holy, holy, holy, right? 194 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,760 Like how do I relate to that? 195 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:24,760 Yeah. 196 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:32,160 I mean, this makes me think about John one where he talks about, yet to all who did 197 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,920 receive him, Jesus, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children 198 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:37,920 of God. 199 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,800 Children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or husband's will, but born 200 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,300 of God. 201 00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:47,680 And a, Tertullian thinks that like in that phrase, like our father in heaven, that's 202 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:56,200 like an epitome of the whole gospel basically because it's, it's by claiming God as our 203 00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:05,880 father, we're stating our faith in God and in Jesus and saying, I do believe in your 204 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:06,880 name. 205 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:12,720 And so I, you have now given me the chance to become your adopted child. 206 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:20,560 And so I, I would lean more towards that understanding that everyone's created the image of God, but 207 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,760 it is those who believe in the name of Jesus who truly can call God father because they 208 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,840 become his adopted children. 209 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:27,840 Yeah. 210 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:28,840 I love that. 211 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:34,080 That's actually, it reminds me, John eight, I think is where Jesus turns to the, the, 212 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:40,080 the people in the crowd and he's, he says something like, if God were your father, you 213 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:41,760 would love me. 214 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:42,760 They didn't love them. 215 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,200 So he concludes that God isn't their father. 216 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:46,200 So yeah. 217 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:47,200 Yeah. 218 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:48,200 That's very interesting. 219 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:49,720 Cause I mean, you think about the heritage of Israel. 220 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,880 I mean, they are supposed to be the children of God Yahweh. 221 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:54,880 Yeah. 222 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,560 Like that is, he takes them as his own children out of Egypt. 223 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:01,680 I called my son. 224 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:10,040 And I think, I think that the tradition of like Christianity is kind of separated a little 225 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:16,920 bit, um, the Jewish nature of kind of that, that heritage of having God as our father. 226 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:22,720 And like now we get to call it because of Jesus, but they should have been the children 227 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:23,720 of God. 228 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,080 And when Jesus came, he didn't find them acting like children. 229 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:28,080 Yeah. 230 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:29,600 You know, and it's really interesting. 231 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:30,600 It is really interesting. 232 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,160 And in some ways Jesus is the fulfillment of the son, right? 233 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:39,200 And he's the new Adam and he's the new and he reconstitutes the 12 tribes and the 12, 234 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,040 I mean, it's, it's, that's a whole nother fascinating thing, but you're right. 235 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,040 There is this, it feels sad some way, right? 236 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,400 Like this should have been this certain, I don't know. 237 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:50,400 Yeah. 238 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:51,640 Like we're like in the new Israel really. 239 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:52,640 I mean, yeah. 240 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:59,800 Like I was just looking through some of my notes here and in John 5, 14 to 18, Jesus is 241 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:06,200 basically talking to the Jews and, um, he says, my father's working until now and I am 242 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:07,200 working. 243 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,680 And so on the count of this, the Jews were seeking even more to kill him because not 244 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:15,480 only was he breaking the Sabbath, but also he was calling God his own father, making 245 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,520 himself equal with God. 246 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:22,160 Like they should all be expected to be calling God their father and like Jesus says that 247 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,200 they, they're not happy. 248 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,720 Like I found that interesting as I was looking through it. 249 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,720 Like you, that shouldn't be a problem for you. 250 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:35,840 You know, like, and even in the Amadah, like their, their prayer, I mean, it even says 251 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:41,840 right in the beginning, um, forgive us our father for we have sinned. 252 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:46,280 Like, what's so weird about calling God your father? 253 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,280 I don't know. 254 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:56,760 Uh, let's look at the, uh, let's look at the next piece here. 255 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:58,600 The word hallowed. 256 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,360 It's not a real common word you hear today. 257 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:02,360 Right. 258 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,280 I guess the, I guess the closest we might have in our vernacular is Halloween. 259 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:07,280 Right. 260 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,960 We, you think hallowed ground like a cemetery. 261 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:11,960 What are you saying? 262 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:12,960 Right. 263 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:18,400 It's something separate, holy, sanctified. 264 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,440 It's what God does for us through his Holy spirit. 265 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,160 He sanctifies us. 266 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:29,920 And when Jesus uses the word here though, what does he mean by hallowed be your name? 267 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,880 We aren't praying that God would sanctify himself for his name. 268 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:34,880 Are we? 269 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,440 He's already holy, holy, holy. 270 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,080 Yeah. 271 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:49,440 I think that, um, hallowed is one of those I call them, I call them religious meaningless 272 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:57,200 words because we read them and we go, it's easy to go right past them without thinking 273 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,240 about what does that mean? 274 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,080 What does it, what does it mean for something to be hallowed? 275 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:10,120 For some reason, my mind went straight to the Gettysburg address where, you know, Lincoln 276 00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:11,960 called it hallowed ground. 277 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:17,960 It was a cemetery for the, uh, men who had died in that battle. 278 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:26,880 And, um, so I, and I really, I dove into that word I found, um, or I remembered this quote 279 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:35,200 from a CS Lewis that I'd like to read because I think it gets at what I think hallowed probably 280 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:41,280 means it's from, um, CS Lewis book, the problem of pain. 281 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:49,960 And, um, he's talking about the word, he's talking about a quality of God that he names, 282 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,080 uh, the numinous. 283 00:18:53,080 --> 00:19:00,600 And it says those who have not met this term may be introduced to it by the following device. 284 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:05,000 Suppose you were told there was a tiger in the next room. 285 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,800 You would know that you were in danger and would probably feel fear. 286 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:16,040 But if you were told there is a ghost in the next room and believed it, you would feel 287 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:21,280 indeed what is often called fear, but of a different kind. 288 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:26,120 It would not be based on the knowledge of danger for no one is primarily afraid of what 289 00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:31,320 a ghost may do to him, but of the mere fact that it is a ghost. 290 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,120 It is uncanny rather than dangerous. 291 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:39,600 And the special kind of fear it excites may be called dread. 292 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,520 But the uncanny one has reached the fringes of the numinous. 293 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:49,920 Now suppose that you were told simply there is a mighty spirit in the other room and believed 294 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:50,920 it. 295 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:56,560 Your feelings would then be even less like the mere fear of danger, but the disturbance 296 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,120 would be profound. 297 00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:04,880 You would feel wonder and a certain shrinking, a sense of inadequacy to cope with such a 298 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:11,000 visitant and of prostration before it and emotion which might be expressed in Shakespeare's 299 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,720 words under it, my genius is rebuked. 300 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:21,920 This feeling may be described as awe and the object which excites it as the numinous. 301 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:28,840 And I think that that's what I think when you say hallowed be your name that what we're 302 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,900 saying is that before God everything is prostrate. 303 00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:41,200 God is something wholly other than anything else that we can experience in any way. 304 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:47,080 He's above it and beyond it in a way that should strike in us. 305 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,640 And words get tricky here. 306 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:58,000 It's not it's not fear, but it's like fear. 307 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,920 It's just a wonder and an awe. 308 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,760 Words that we use so much for so many other things. 309 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,960 I mean, we can say, you know, those eggs were awesome. 310 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:14,200 They weren't not in the real sense of what that word means. 311 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,200 Awesome is overused. 312 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:16,200 Right. 313 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:22,520 And but we have all these overused words, but God really is awesome. 314 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:28,480 God is someone who we just fall down before. 315 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,840 And I think that's what that term is getting to. 316 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:37,040 So in that sense, it's like when we say hallowed be your name, you're thinking it's almost 317 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:45,240 like a reminder to us to have this is coming into the presence of someone who who's very 318 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,400 presence in existence inspires true awe. 319 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:50,400 Yeah. 320 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:57,200 And it's very unlike how pagans think of their gods. 321 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:02,640 They think of their gods almost as just like really, really, really, really strong people 322 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:09,000 who you would be afraid of because they could break you in half because they're really, 323 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,000 really, really, really strong. 324 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,480 But how it goes beyond that. 325 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:14,480 Yeah. 326 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:21,640 I was struggling with this one a little bit because I was thinking, is it a is it am I 327 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:30,160 praying that in my heart, I would revere God as holy or am I praying that his name would 328 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,840 be regarded as holy in the world? 329 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,440 I don't think you can make his name any more holy than it already is. 330 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,120 He is holy. 331 00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:43,360 And so I don't know. 332 00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:48,720 I think where I landed on this was that I think primarily what I'm hearing this in Jesus' 333 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:56,280 words is that it's some expression from him about how much he reveres God the Father. 334 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:04,440 It's like this heart level response and he loves who he is, the holy one. 335 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:09,800 And it's just coming from his heart and mind and his inner being. 336 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,520 And I think it's a beautiful way to start this prayer, right? 337 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:18,200 I don't have that state of mind so often when I approach God. 338 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:19,680 And I want to. 339 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:20,680 Yeah. 340 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:25,680 I think the word holy is what I come to. 341 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:34,320 Like the Hebrew term, kodesh, holiness, the idea of being in the temple or in the presence 342 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:40,560 of God like brings on a whole new meaning than just like, oh, I'm talking about God. 343 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,080 It's like you're talking with God. 344 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:44,280 Like that's fearful. 345 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:53,680 Like in Isaiah 8, Isaiah 813, sanctify the Lord himself and he will be your fear. 346 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,960 And if you trust him, he will become a sanctuary for you and you will not encounter him as 347 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,960 an obstacle or a stone like a fall from a rock. 348 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:10,280 And then actually right before that, but the Lord of hosts, him you shall honor as holy. 349 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:11,840 And that same word there. 350 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,360 Let him be your fear and let him be your dread. 351 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:16,800 Those are just two different versions. 352 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:23,800 One was from the Septuagint, which is the same exact Greek word that's used in, in this, 353 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,400 the Lord's prayer there. 354 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:30,200 That same exact Greek word is used as, as holy should honor him as holy. 355 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,100 Let him be your fear. 356 00:24:32,100 --> 00:24:33,560 Just like you were talking about van with fear. 357 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:38,080 It's like, I think sometimes when we, when I pray, I don't know if you guys have the 358 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:39,080 same thing. 359 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:40,080 It seems very informal. 360 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:41,080 Yeah. 361 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:46,760 I think we could all do with a little bit more like reverence for God, like treating 362 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:54,080 him as like the awesome God, the unknowable God, the father that he really is. 363 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,400 And through Jesus, we can get access to that. 364 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,880 Like, like a respect for it almost. 365 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,320 There is such tension though in this, isn't there? 366 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,520 Because you've got on the one hand everything you were just saying. 367 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,680 And then on the other hand, but he wants us to call him father. 368 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,160 Like it's awesome. 369 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,480 I, I think that's kind of insane. 370 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:20,800 Cause I think about my kid and how he approaches me with like total confidence in my love for 371 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:21,800 him. 372 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:27,680 He can come tell me anything at any time and often does and I'm busy doing something else. 373 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,320 But dad, I want to show you something I just did. 374 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:34,240 Like he's just coming to me and talking to me all the time. 375 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,200 And I have that visual and I think, wow. 376 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:43,560 I can, I can do that with God who is so unbelievably holy. 377 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,600 Like, how do I reconcile that? 378 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,680 The tension, but there, I agree with what you're saying about the tension. 379 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,560 So I have us at your son is still a kid. 380 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,600 I have a son who's 27. 381 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:03,800 And so we had a conversation not long ago about the way that he approaches me sometimes. 382 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,480 And I say, yeah, you're, you're a man now and you're in a different phase in your life 383 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,360 and our relationship is different. 384 00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:18,040 You're not 100% reliant on me, but there are certain things, certain ways that you approach 385 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,200 me that are unacceptable to me. 386 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:22,800 That's interesting. 387 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,680 That are just, you can't, you can't say to me, he said something to me. 388 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,880 I can't remember what it was. 389 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,080 He, oh, he, he was dismissive of me. 390 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,760 I was talking to him and he kind of waved his hand like that. 391 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:45,680 And I said, so I, I, I sense that you didn't really mean what that felt like to me, but 392 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,040 you can't approach me like that. 393 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,000 You can't treat me like that. 394 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,560 We are both just guys. 395 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,480 We both have imperfections. 396 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,480 You know a lot of my weaknesses. 397 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:02,480 I know a lot of yours, but I'm your father. 398 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:07,760 You should treat me with a certain amount of respect in my house. 399 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:13,320 And I, I just feel, I feel like I can demand that because you're my son, even though you're 400 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,880 27, you're always going to be that. 401 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:21,240 And it also reminded me of, I had a friend when I was in college, when he prayed, he 402 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,720 used to call God daddy. 403 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:32,440 And I said, I just said, I had to tell him, I said, you know, who am I to interfere? 404 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,680 You're in your relationship with God. 405 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:41,080 Maybe you know him like that, but it's just not reverent enough for me. 406 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:42,240 Daddy is not a term. 407 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:43,760 It's a term of intimacy. 408 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:44,920 Yes. 409 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,000 But it's not reverent enough. 410 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,000 Yeah. 411 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,600 I don't, I don't know if some of our hears might have heard that Abba father means daddy. 412 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,120 I don't think it does actually. 413 00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:59,920 Uh, I think that's, uh, something, there was a paper written in the seventies where it 414 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:03,520 was suggested, but I don't believe that's actually true. 415 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,640 Oh, that's news to me. 416 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:06,640 Yeah. 417 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,000 I've heard, I've heard it said that way, but I never actually verified it. 418 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:15,080 I know the Hebrew word is off for like father, but I don't know what the relation to Abba 419 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:16,240 is is air make or. 420 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:17,240 Yeah. 421 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:18,240 It was another word for father. 422 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:19,240 Yeah. 423 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:20,240 Okay. 424 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:21,240 Yeah. 425 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:22,240 Like, I don't know. 426 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,520 I mean, when I think of my father, I don't think like, like there's a little, there's 427 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,600 a little sense of like, I need to have respect for your parents. 428 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:34,680 Like, especially when you're like young kid, like there's like, okay, I know I can ask 429 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:40,880 him for anything, but if I do something that's going to make a matter like really disappoint 430 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,320 him, you know, like there's a little sense of reverence there. 431 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,680 And I think that when we talk about God as a father, it's not just like, he just gives 432 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,280 you presence all the time. 433 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:54,720 Like, like you have to respect him, you know, and I, I've been sure, like when I, when I 434 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,960 think about the Lord's prayer, I try to implement some of that. 435 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,360 And like, it's a good reminder because sometimes it just gets really informal. 436 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:10,000 And I also think it starts to sway the, the way I pray in the order of importance, like 437 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,280 starting with God rather than just like jumping into everything that I'm struggling with 438 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,520 or that I want help with or whatever. 439 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:17,520 Yeah. 440 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,320 I think that framing is really, really important. 441 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:21,320 Yeah. 442 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:22,320 Absolutely. 443 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,960 Well, we made it through this little section. 444 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:26,960 We're going to come back to this. 445 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:33,960 This is, this is awesome in the real way that I mean that. 446 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,960 All right. 447 00:29:36,960 --> 00:30:03,120 I hadn't heard that before. 448 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,320 I've heard people say Abba is like daddy. 449 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,040 Yeah, I think something in me rejects it. 450 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,440 I've heard that and I had no idea if it's true. 451 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:17,280 I actually probably should have looked into that, but I think it was 1971. 452 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:24,200 I don't remember the person, but it was in a book that they wrote a commentary about. 453 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,280 And I have to go look for the reference. 454 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,400 But when I read that, I was like, haha. 455 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,240 I always thought that was suspect. 456 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,560 I just, it just feels so odd because like in Judaism, like, like when I took Hebrew 457 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,760 classes, like my teacher would not let us say Yahweh in class. 458 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:40,760 Right. 459 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:41,760 Like you had to say Adonai. 460 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,040 Like it's a word that you were not allowed to say. 461 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,240 It was like to think that you could just call God daddy. 462 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,640 Maybe Jesus says that in John five and they're like, what? 463 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,240 You're saying that, you know, like, I don't know. 464 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:54,920 But like, I don't know. 465 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,080 I feel like Jesus can say it, but I'm like, yeah, I'm not sure. 466 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,800 So I'm just going to be cautious there.