1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,840 Hey, I'm Matt Brownell. 2 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:10,480 And I'm Van Owens. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,160 And I'm Tim Adams. 4 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:18,120 Welcome to Climbing the Mountain, where we dive into the scriptures and discuss themes, 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,280 connections, and real life application. 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,960 We're kicking off a series here where we're going to examine the Sermon on the Mount and 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:34,960 discuss implications for this teaching for Christians today. 8 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,760 All right, welcome back. 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:43,200 We're going to continue our conversation about oaths and vows. 10 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,840 And so far, we've had a good talk. 11 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,920 We've talked about the difference between an oath and a vow. 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:01:00,760 We've talked about the fact that our words mean so much about our integrity. 13 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:07,760 And we've talked about the extreme language that Jesus has used in going forward. 14 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,560 And it continues in this section about oaths. 15 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:17,160 One thing that I wanted to pick up with that we didn't talk about last time is that, is 16 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:22,160 Jesus here saying that oaths and vows are bad? 17 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:23,880 Are they bad? 18 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,680 Well, we might not all agree on this, I think. 19 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,720 But I'm going to say no, because in the New Testament, we see oaths. 20 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:38,320 Paul writes in Galatians 1:20, and what I'm writing to you, before God, I do not 21 00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:39,560 lie. 22 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:47,840 So he took an oath before God, and even God took an oath to give us great confidence in 23 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:49,440 the hope he has promised to us. 24 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:56,360 So in Hebrews 6:16, it says, for people swear by something greater than themselves, and 25 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,760 in all their disputes, an oath is final for confirmation. 26 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,520 So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable 27 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:11,160 character of his purpose, he guaranteed it with an oath, so that by two unchangeable 28 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:16,520 things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have 29 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,880 strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us. 30 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,960 So taking an oath is not wrong. 31 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:29,120 In certain circumstances, perhaps something momentous, it is even warranted. 32 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:33,640 So I think what Jesus is addressing in this passage is something else, something about 33 00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:38,160 the very nature of truthfulness, honesty, and sincerity. 34 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:45,240 Yeah, I wrestle with this because that Hebrews 6 scripture, I mean, that's pretty powerful. 35 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:54,960 God's choosing to make an oath, and it seems like he's doing it because he wants to give 36 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,880 us two unchanging reasons to believe him, right? 37 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:04,120 One is his unchangeable purpose, and the other one is his unchangeable word. 38 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:12,000 And so that to me feels like, okay, well, so God made an oath, but then I hadn't actually 39 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,280 seen that scripture in Galatians. 40 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:21,080 I'm chewing on that as you were talking about. 41 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:33,360 The challenge, I think, is that if we say oaths are fine, then there's like two things 42 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:34,480 at play. 43 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,360 One is Jesus says, don't swear an oath at all. 44 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:44,640 So we're not taking that completely literally. 45 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:48,960 And two, I think it's a very, very slippery slope here. 46 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:57,520 Like there's, at what point is an oath valid or is not valid? 47 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:07,760 At what point do I become, I don't know, it's like my truthfulness needs to be validated 48 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:09,720 by an oath. 49 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:17,440 And so when I look at the record of the early church, a lot of them, they just didn't swear 50 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:18,440 anything. 51 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:26,720 And that got them into a lot of trouble when they were thinking about being, if someone 52 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:31,760 was baptized and was already a soldier, or if they were in public office that required 53 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:36,520 them to take an oath, they would then say, well, you have to stop taking an oath in those 54 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:37,520 contexts. 55 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,720 And that gave them a lot of persecution. 56 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:52,520 But I see the value in that because they're saying, I'm not going to make an oath because 57 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,040 I don't need to. 58 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,240 And in fact, my king said, don't swear an oath at all. 59 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,920 And that's more important. 60 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:09,720 But even with them, there's like this, it's kind of like, well, what's an oath? 61 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,040 And what's just affirming, yes, I'm going to do this. 62 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,840 I came up on this quote, it's like, this is from Clement of Alexandria. 63 00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:22,200 He's like in the second or third century, I forget. 64 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,360 He's talking about this man of great character. 65 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:31,440 He says, but he does not even swear, preferring to make confirmation in affirmation by yes 66 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,320 and then denial by no. 67 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:39,840 For it is an oath to swear or to produce anything from the mind in the way of confirmation in 68 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:42,440 the shape of an oath. 69 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,560 And there he's actually, I need to find it. 70 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:50,480 But that one, he's saying basically, you're never going to make an oath at all. 71 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:54,160 But there is another quote, and if I find it, I'll bring it up again. 72 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,840 Where he's basically like, but sometimes people won't believe you basically because they were 73 00:05:57,840 --> 00:05:58,840 scarred. 74 00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:01,840 And in that case, you might give a little bit more than a yes because they won't believe 75 00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:04,120 you're yes, and that's fine. 76 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:12,320 So I still feel like I wrestle with this question, and I don't have a solid answer. 77 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:19,440 But what is super obvious to me is that Jesus is making really strong statements about integrity. 78 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:27,440 And for all of us, the standard that Jesus is making is way higher than what we're currently 79 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:28,440 doing. 80 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:33,360 I think there's also something about what he's doing here where it seems like he's not 81 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,640 trying to make more laws, but he's trying to tell us what the heart is of the law. 82 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,920 And I think he's doing the 95% of the time. 83 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:45,360 Like most of the time, you're going to come across in your everyday speech with people, 84 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:46,720 you should be honest. 85 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,880 You shouldn't need to make an oath. 86 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:54,320 But maybe there's that one momentous occasion where you're called before a court and you're 87 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:59,280 supposed to swear that you are going to tell the truth. 88 00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:01,880 I don't have a problem with that, actually. 89 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:03,720 I know some people do. 90 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:10,600 If they're called to be a witness at court, they will say they'll say something like how 91 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:15,680 they always tell the truth and they don't feel comfortable taking this oath. 92 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:16,920 Yeah. 93 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,680 When I was wrestling through this thought, is it always bad? 94 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,840 Is Jesus saying this is always bad? 95 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:29,480 I think that I sort of am thinking about, is he talking about the way that people have 96 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,680 begun to use oaths as loopholes? 97 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:42,640 Is he saying that, okay, so if you swear by the temple and you don't do what you swore 98 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:48,720 you were going to do, it's not as bad as by swearing by the name of God, that maybe you 99 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,360 don't, the consequences aren't as bad. 100 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:57,480 So if you swear by the temple or if you swear by the earth or if you swear by your own head, 101 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,960 then maybe it's not as bad. 102 00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:04,560 I think about the sort of the old joke that you've heard a thousand times in the movie 103 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,720 where somebody says, I swear on my mother's grave that I'm not going to do it and his 104 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,800 buddy says your mother's not even dead. 105 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:11,800 Yeah. 106 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:12,800 Yeah. 107 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,280 He's swearing an oath that doesn't mean anything. 108 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,920 So I think that that's part of what Jesus is landing on here. 109 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:21,000 I think so too. 110 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:26,320 I think that there's more in, and we'll probably tease it out here, but I think there's more 111 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:32,880 in these four verses or five, I don't know, can I count correctly, five verses that have 112 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:37,480 to do with an argument that's being made that he's addressing. 113 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:39,480 Yeah. 114 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,880 And talking about loopholes, it's my next question here. 115 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:49,200 This whole section, the whole antithesis, it's about someone having taken something 116 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:56,240 that was in the word and adulterated it to the advantage of those, just for it to look 117 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,400 for a loophole, to look for a way out of it. 118 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,400 That was the case with the divorce passage. 119 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,320 That was the case with all the ones that we've looked at so far. 120 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:10,800 In this case, it's a tendency that was very prevalent at that time for people to certify 121 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:16,240 by their oaths, by appealing to heaven or earth or Jerusalem or even their own heads. 122 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:21,920 They did this to create a sort of ranking system for vows that range between binding 123 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:23,840 and non-binding. 124 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:28,080 Can you think of ways that we do this today? 125 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,880 What kinds of oaths do we make now? 126 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:32,880 Yeah. 127 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:38,600 I think this gets at the heart of why Jesus chose this example. 128 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:46,320 I think this phrase that he quotes, I just want to read this first part of this again. 129 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:51,400 Again, you have heard that it was said to those of old, you shall not swear falsely, 130 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:55,280 but you shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn. 131 00:09:55,280 --> 00:10:01,880 I think that phrase to the Lord, I think, is the piece that is the clever lawyering 132 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,840 where the loophole is being created. 133 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:13,200 He says with each of these examples that our righteousness should surpass that of the Pharisees 134 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:14,480 and the teachers of law. 135 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:24,440 In verse 19, he said of chapter 5, he's saying that the Pharisees didn't follow God's law, 136 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,080 which he came to fulfill because they relaxed it. 137 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:31,960 They taught others loopholes for getting out of the law. 138 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,560 I think that's what they did here. 139 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:41,080 You might laugh, but I had an epiphany the other week about this when we were studying 140 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,080 about divorce. 141 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:49,600 I noticed the Hillel school, one of the prominent rabbinical schools took apart Deuteronomy 24 142 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,880 to create this loophole, the any matter divorce that had no review. 143 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:55,400 Jesus condemned it. 144 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:59,760 When we were studying for that one, I came across a separate piece that referenced looking 145 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,360 at a woman lustfully as adultery in your heart. 146 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,240 Then I was like, wait, what's going on here? 147 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,400 That's exactly what Jesus is talking about. 148 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,160 Then I looked and I found it again. 149 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:15,720 I found it with the anger passage and it blew my mind. 150 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:19,000 Jesus mentions this word, raca, literally empty-headed. 151 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:24,800 In an honor culture, that'd be like throwing around the word that signified you're outside 152 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,760 of God's kingdom. 153 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:31,400 Basically, Jesus was calling out the different factions that it formed and were calling each 154 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:38,520 other names in a way that passed extreme judgment, essentially saying, you're not saved. 155 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,720 Christians do that today. 156 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:41,960 But Essenes did it. 157 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:42,960 They did it to the Pharisees. 158 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:44,960 They called them raca. 159 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:53,680 Jesus starts with a couple of these verses from the Ten Commandments and then he gets 160 00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:58,440 the people were getting wrong before he talks about these loopholes, right? 161 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,880 Trying to get out of doing God's will. 162 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:05,360 This is how the Pharisees relaxed the law. 163 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:09,160 They took this little piece and said, okay, here's our loophole. 164 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:14,640 Our way out of doing the hard part of the law, before it was divorced, we talked about 165 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:15,640 that. 166 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,840 All you have to do is give the certificate and you're righteous. 167 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,680 Could you fulfill the law? 168 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:25,240 In this case, he's also rejecting their loophole. 169 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:30,480 He's getting the big picture though, which has to do with overall honesty that God desires 170 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:31,480 out of us. 171 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,600 The loophole they'd created here was just this word, to the Lord. 172 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:40,560 If someone says to the Lord in their vow or oath or whatever they're doing, well, hey, 173 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:41,800 that's on you, buddy. 174 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:42,800 You blew it. 175 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:45,880 You used the phrase to the Lord. 176 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:46,880 You're on the hook now. 177 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:52,720 However, if you swore by the sacred place, it sounds really good, but well, you don't 178 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,440 really need to keep your word there. 179 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:56,920 It's okay to wiggle out of it. 180 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,720 And Jesus is saying, nope, nice try, that doesn't fly. 181 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:06,360 At the end, Jesus says, say yes or no. 182 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:17,520 And it's sweet, it's short, it's to the point, yet extremely challenging because of the culture 183 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:22,960 of deceit and deceitfulness that we have. 184 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:31,480 We live in a world where, and we can be so jaded by it, by the deceit that's in the world, 185 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:36,480 that Jesus' words seem almost a little naive to us. 186 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:43,760 We've got shallow social media posts and business practices that are unscrupulous. 187 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:48,840 We've got politicians who speak out at both sides of their mouth on the same issue. 188 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:55,760 We've got this sort of fake it till you make it mentality in our world. 189 00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:01,920 How can we get to a point where Jesus can say, just let your yes be yes and your no 190 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:02,920 be no? 191 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,440 What would he think of the way we conduct ourselves now? 192 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,880 And how can we put that verse? 193 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:14,440 How can we put verse 37, just say yes or just say no into practice? 194 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:22,360 Yeah, so I think about this in different spheres of life. 195 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,840 It applies to every sphere of life because every sphere includes our relationships with 196 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,120 people and how we interact. 197 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:42,520 But when you think about business, it's really easy to fudge the numbers or our whole system 198 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:56,280 of sales and marketing is often there's a strong desire to maybe I don't mention everything 199 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,240 that's really the issue with my product or maybe- 200 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,280 Go buy it. 201 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,560 We do have that feature even though we don't have it yet. 202 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:07,120 There's like a million in one way. 203 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,160 Oh, I totally wanted that in it. 204 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:10,160 So sure. 205 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:17,400 We can deceive, we can lie straight up, whatever it might look like, but it's not full of truth. 206 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:22,120 And I know it's also in business. 207 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:27,400 Those are the places where I can feel like, oh, if I don't actually, if I don't say this 208 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:31,320 thing, that's maybe not totally true, maybe I don't get the sale. 209 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,040 Maybe my boss is annoyed with me. 210 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:40,320 And there's a lot of opportunities for fear to come in. 211 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:46,240 Oh, I need to be less than fully truthful. 212 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,520 That's the only thing that I can do in this situation. 213 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:57,880 So that to me feels like one area that's just, it can simplify it. 214 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:05,600 I think in my business practices, in the way I deal with my coworkers or with my boss or 215 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:11,720 the people that my clients, am I full of honesty with those people? 216 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:18,320 And a lot of companies, like my company says, integrity is a core quality. 217 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:20,920 We all kind of espouse integrity. 218 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,480 But it's another thing to be that in the workplace. 219 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:29,520 There can be a lot of pressures even in a company like that to, maybe we don't need 220 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,680 to be full of integrity this time. 221 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:32,680 Right? 222 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,160 So I think this is hard. 223 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:40,280 If you actually think about how the rubber meets the road here and how we take this and 224 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:46,200 put it into practice, because being honest about things, sometimes it'll make you look 225 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,840 bad. 226 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,680 And at work, you don't want that. 227 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,480 You want to look good all the time. 228 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,240 And it's the same, we live in such a weird world with social media. 229 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:01,280 That's where I see it a lot, where people are not honest necessarily about what they're 230 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:08,400 only showing you the best thing they've ever done and the perfect lighting and the perfect 231 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,560 shot and the glorious life that they're living and everything's wonderful. 232 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:14,880 And then maybe on the inside, they don't feel that way. 233 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:16,560 But you can't show that. 234 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:21,160 You show that and people don't like that. 235 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:28,600 And so maybe social media may be not the best place to have a real conversation in the first 236 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,000 place, I don't know. 237 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,720 But oh, gosh, I might get in trouble for this. 238 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:42,720 But the idea of having a platform called Truth Social seems like, I don't know, it has to 239 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,800 be the epitome of hubris. 240 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:49,080 But anyway, people are not truthful online. 241 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:56,200 It's hard enough to be truthful face to face. 242 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,120 I don't know, this is tough. 243 00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:04,000 The other thing I think about with this is the phrase keeping it real. 244 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:05,880 I don't know if that's still an idiom. 245 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,600 I've probably dated myself. 246 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:16,400 But sometimes maybe we shouldn't say every thought that comes into our head if it's mean, 247 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,400 you know, particularly, I'm just keeping it real. 248 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:20,480 Maybe you shouldn't. 249 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:22,720 Maybe you should deny yourself. 250 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,520 I don't think that Jesus is talking about doing that here. 251 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,640 I think he's addressing honesty and genuineness. 252 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:36,520 But I don't think you need to be mean and nasty to people either, because that's something 253 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:37,520 different. 254 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:38,520 Yeah. 255 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:45,760 There's a difference between being full of integrity and standing by what you say and 256 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,400 saying everything that you think. 257 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,480 Those are two different concepts. 258 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:56,600 But yeah, one of the things I was thinking of as we're talking is, you know, sometimes 259 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:03,320 the reason why we don't tell the truth is just that there can be a cost to doing it, 260 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:04,320 right? 261 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,920 Like there's, sometimes it's going to cause, often actually, it's going to cause some amount 262 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:14,400 of inconvenience or pain in the short term, which is why we're not doing it, right? 263 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,960 If there was no issue with telling the truth, we probably would. 264 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:25,400 And this quote is kind of also in the business world, but I think helps me. 265 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:30,480 This guy, he says, whoever sells or buys anything should not name two prices for what he buys 266 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:36,400 or sells, but instead state the net price and just speak the truth. 267 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:41,560 And he says, you know, this is a haggling society he's talking in. 268 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,000 If you just say your price, you're not going to get the price. 269 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,040 Like the price is going to get way down. 270 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,160 That's why you pretend it's way higher. 271 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:53,960 He says, and if you don't get the price, you get the truth and you're rich in the possession 272 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:55,960 of righteousness. 273 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:06,280 And you know, that to me is a good example of the way in which truth could cost us something, 274 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:07,280 right? 275 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:08,800 That's a very literal way. 276 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:15,160 But when we hit those situations, what are we first willing to give on, right? 277 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:20,560 Is it like the financial thing that I might get or is it the convenience of the relationship 278 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:22,440 being a certain way? 279 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:29,840 Or is it, you know, I believe that, you know, standing by what I say and being truthful 280 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:35,720 with this person and with myself is, you know, the most important thing and one of the most 281 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,840 loving the ways that I can contribute in this relationship. 282 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:43,520 And so I'm going to do that even if it costs me something. 283 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,280 The other thing is I'm thinking about this, about being honest and genuine. 284 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:54,320 I think in a business setting, and not just in a business setting, but a lot of settings, 285 00:20:54,320 --> 00:21:02,160 if you're transparent, then assuming people aren't just wanting to step all over you, 286 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,160 assuming you're in an environment where people are productive and cooperative and want to 287 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,360 work together, well, then that's the best situation because then they actually know 288 00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:15,440 what's going on and they're not caught by surprise and they can help if you need help. 289 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,760 And that's a hard, but sometimes that's hard for us to admit that we need help. 290 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:25,000 And so I think there's a great humility that's required to be honest and transparent. 291 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,000 Yeah. 292 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,000 Yeah. 293 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,880 This is just, this is really hard. 294 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:35,400 And the, about the only thing that I landed on that was a solid conclusion for me as I 295 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:40,560 was studying out all these passages is that this is a very, very difficult thing because 296 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:47,200 it gets to, when we talk about, Tim, you talked earlier in our previous conversation about 297 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:52,640 the name of God being more than just his name being the totality of who he is. 298 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:58,440 In some ways, our yes and our no are the totality of who we are. 299 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,680 And how much does, is my yes really a yes? 300 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:11,160 And how much can I do to make sure that that is the, that it's the truth? 301 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:16,240 And it's one of those things where one of the things I pray almost every time I pray 302 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:23,560 is God, I love you, but I don't love you enough. 303 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,680 And I need you to help me love you more. 304 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,600 Which doesn't make any sense. 305 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:36,160 It's like you never say that to a person or not that God isn't a person, but you never 306 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,640 say that to another human being. 307 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,680 And it's just, it's really, really hard. 308 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,200 And it's something that again, that you need your relationship with God, you need the Holy 309 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:56,160 Spirit working in you, you need your community to help you to do that very simple just say 310 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,320 yes or no, just say yes or no. 311 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:04,480 And so I wanted to, I switched this as the last question because I think it's a really 312 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:05,480 hard question. 313 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:11,200 And I thought maybe that, maybe that knowing that we're getting towards the end of it, 314 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,000 we could try to keep it succinct. 315 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:19,960 But Jesus says that anything beyond yes or no comes from the evil one, the evil one being 316 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,400 Satan. 317 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,560 What does Satan have to do with this? 318 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:30,680 Maybe this is too big of a question that you could do a whole series of podcasts, I think, 319 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,360 on Satan, on the devil. 320 00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:38,600 What does the devil, the evil one have to do with this? 321 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,160 And what does he have to do with our sinful nature? 322 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:49,080 Well, first I should just say some translations render this evil. 323 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:51,440 Anything beyond this comes from evil, not the evil one. 324 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,720 But either way, I think we're pointing back to something fundamental in this Sermon on 325 00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:01,400 the Mount, which is we become whom we behold. 326 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:07,360 If we see our need for God and then fill up on him, we really see him like the baditudes 327 00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:10,360 say, we'll become more like him. 328 00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:17,480 Conversely, we can become more like the father of lies, if that's what we're focused on. 329 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:22,160 Yeah, and we see that father of lies. 330 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,520 We see him work right at the beginning in Genesis 3. 331 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:32,320 He uses deceit to confuse Eve on what God actually said, then he outright lies and says, 332 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,440 no, God is not being truthful to you. 333 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:44,360 And it was that doubt that God is being truthful, that he cares about me, that that's how Satan 334 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:47,400 caused the fall of humanity. 335 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:54,560 He's called the prince of lies, the father of lies, probably for that reason. 336 00:24:54,560 --> 00:25:03,840 So I think Jesus in John 8 is basically, yeah, you do what your father does. 337 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,160 He says that to the Jews. 338 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,240 And that's around when he is calling Satan the father of lies. 339 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:18,520 I don't exactly know what he's doing there in John 8 exactly, but I do know that if we're 340 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:26,520 not able to stand by our yes or our no, then we have some of those lies inside of us. 341 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:35,800 And that's one of the main poles that Satan is using to destroy us and then also damage 342 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:36,800 those around us. 343 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,200 Yeah, I think it's really helpful to hear you guys talk about it as well, because I 344 00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:47,640 think what happens to Christians in general, I know what happens to me is I swing the pendulum 345 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,240 when it comes to the evil one. 346 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:54,560 I think on one side of it is that he is the evil one. 347 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:55,560 He's Satan. 348 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,800 He's so mighty and powerful. 349 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,480 How can I possibly resist him? 350 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,160 He's the prince of this world. 351 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:07,680 You know, he's the one who is in charge of everything here and now in a way. 352 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,760 And so I give him too much power. 353 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,240 And then the other side of the pendulum is I give him none. 354 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,640 He's the little red cartoon character who hovers over my shoulder that I can pluck away with 355 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,880 my finger. 356 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:28,440 But I think it does help to think of it as who are you going to imitate? 357 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,040 Who are you going to behave like? 358 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,360 Are you going to behave like your father in heaven or are you going to behave like the 359 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:35,360 father of lies? 360 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:36,360 Yeah. 361 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:38,120 I liked what you said about Genesis too. 362 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:45,160 I was thinking about, yeah, he, from the get go, is subtle. 363 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:50,320 What he does there is a masterful attack on their faith. 364 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,760 He gets them to doubt God. 365 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,360 And he clouds it with fear. 366 00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:58,620 He appeals to their desires. 367 00:26:58,620 --> 00:27:04,600 He twists things around and when we're not focused on God, we're so susceptible to those 368 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,240 lies because they're all around us. 369 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:12,720 You know, in Romans 12, it says the world is constantly, acting on us, trying 370 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,400 to push us into its mold. 371 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:20,280 And so the only way out of that is to continually renew our minds and keep our minds focused 372 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,280 on God. 373 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:22,280 Yeah. 374 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:23,280 Yeah. 375 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,480 But he's always, he's the one that's always looking for the loophole. 376 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:28,480 Right. 377 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:29,480 He is. 378 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:30,480 He is. 379 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:31,480 Yeah. 380 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:37,400 And I think that's, that's my main takeaway from these conversations we've been having 381 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:45,840 this time and last time on this, that if I'm coming to this discussion about oaths, discussion 382 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:52,280 about integrity, thinking about, well, how much integrity do I really need to have? 383 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,440 Then I've got my head in the wrong place. 384 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:56,440 Right. 385 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:57,440 Right. 386 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,560 And it was like, love the truth. 387 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,800 Let nothing but truth proceed from your mouth, that the spirit which God has placed in your 388 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:08,120 flesh, maybe you found truthful before all men and God who dwells in you will be glorified. 389 00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:09,120 Right. 390 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:14,400 And that, that's what I, that's what I want my heart to be when I'm thinking about, 391 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,080 can I stand by what I say? 392 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:18,080 Yeah. 393 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:25,280 You know, I think Satan, what he does is he gets us to doubt the only one in whom there 394 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,560 is no falsehood and God is the only one that we can trust. 395 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:35,640 And I think, I think that's a little, if I can branch out here for a sec, I was thinking 396 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:42,240 about the verse about your hair, I think mostly because I'm bald. 397 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,240 It troubled me a little bit. 398 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,520 And I, but I think that's what he's kind of getting out in there a little bit. 399 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:55,120 It's, I guess I kind of joke that the gray ones were the weak ones and they left first. 400 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,880 But now even the ones on the side that I shaved my head really tight on the side now because 401 00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:01,640 even those are turning gray. 402 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:06,360 And I don't have a goatee anymore because on my beard is gray and that was like cut, 403 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:07,360 shave that off. 404 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:08,360 That looks bad. 405 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:14,480 Anyway, but what I was thinking about with this hair dyeing thing, you know, you can't 406 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:15,480 change your hair. 407 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,080 They had a hair dye back then, right? 408 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,240 I mean, Lydia was a, she dealt in purple cloth. 409 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,000 So I'm sure that you could dye your hair back then. 410 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,240 That was not like a new thing like we can hair. 411 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,960 Oh, suddenly we can dye our hair now and look at us. 412 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,360 But you know, when you think about that analogy, it's genius because what happens? 413 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,280 Well, the truth comes out. 414 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,160 You're still the old, your roots. 415 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,080 They look, they're all gray. 416 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:47,720 And so it kind of gets at a, it's an amazing metaphor really of how weak we are and how 417 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:53,840 our lives have a way of being revealed and just how little control we have and how much 418 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,080 we need God. 419 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,200 God is the only trustworthy one that we need. 420 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,200 We need to rely on him. 421 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,200 Yeah. 422 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:02,200 That's true. 423 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,680 Well, great conversation guys. 424 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,280 I think we can wrap it up there and we'll see you next time. 425 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:27,960 Thanks.